X-FLows Now Available at Dangerden!

[RVWinkle]

Looks like they're all out of stock still like they've been since last week. And just a heads to everyone, a certain grumpy engineer who's maintained a highly respectable status in the PC water cooling field for quite some time has made some vague references to these new rads. The impression I got was that the performance of this line would be underwhelming. This is deffinitely a product in which you'll want to wait for the reviews before upgrading.

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

haha, i know who you're talking about.
Also, if they're just BI rads made singlepass, I suspect they'll be worse than their BI cousins.

[moonlightcheese]

a certain grumpy engineer who's maintained a highly respectable status in the PC water cooling field for quite some time...

heh... that's funny

[MaxxxRacer]

single pass is a tricky situation..

~1/2 the flow restriction
~1/2 the flow velocity in the radiator

flow restriction is important for the system as a hole, but considering current radiators are far from being nexxxos XP's, the gain you get in flow is not very substantial when moving to a single pass from dual pass.



BUT i suppose in a system with a low head pressure pump and low restriction blocks that gets relatively high flow, the single pass would work better.

this would be due to extra flow gained from single pass and there being enough flow to overcome the lower internal water velocity in the radiator..


so essentially its a balancing act...

[Fairydust]

...flow restriction is important for the system as a hole, but considering current radiators are far from being nexxxos XP's...

Hey don't forget the Mora2 :P it's 3x 20 pass sure could do with some simplification.

[MaxxxRacer]

I have no comments regarding the MoraRestriction 2

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

*MoreRestriction 2 :-P
I want to see someone hack the ends off those tubes and make it a normal double-pass rad

[MaxxxRacer]

serious waste of money...

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

well duh.

[MaxxxRacer]

hey some people who are less knowledgeable might think otherwise and purchase the item in question..

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

happens all the time. Then again, people buy bigwaters.

[saratoga]

I think single pass is probably better for most people. Radiator performance generally doesn't drop off until you get into fairly low flow rates; lower then people here are ever going to go. However that can vary depending on the design, so its kind of hard to say that its better in all cases.

[Master_G]

so essentially its a balancing act...

As with quite a lot of watercooling. I want to see the price in the UK, they certainly dont look all that new and exciting, gotta wait for the PA120s now.

G

[dacooltech]

Looks like they're all out of stock still like they've been since last week. And just a heads to everyone, a certain grumpy engineer who's maintained a highly respectable status in the PC water cooling field for quite some time has made some vague references to these new rads. The impression I got was that the performance of this line would be underwhelming. This is deffinitely a product in which you'll want to wait for the reviews before upgrading.

RVWinkle, FYI many ProCoolers, including myself kept bugging Willie over @HWLabs for a single pass radi for a long time... and last year we received the first single pass Pro 3 radis from HWlabs, and we loved them...
pH's single-pass Pro3

So HWlabs manufactured the single-pass X-Flow radiators based on the demand...

let me tell you this, as someone using a single-pass Pro3 for quite some time now: radiator performance-wise single-pass X-Flow radis perform the same as their dual-pass Black Ice siblings... But single-pass radiator helps certain water-blocks (ie impingement design) to perform slightly better...

Post Edited by MR

[MaxxxRacer]

I will still remain a little skeptical.. There is a reason that thermochill went with dual pass with the new PA120.X series and not single pass like the PA160....

[EnJoY]

As Cathar, Marci, Maxxx and many others have stated in regards to dual-pass versus single-pass. There are several factors in determining the performance benefit of each, and when it comes down to it it's actually quite simple. One method works better for some style radiators, and one works better for another.

[dacooltech]

I will still remain a little skeptical.. There is a reason that thermochill went with dual pass with the new PA120.X series and not single pass like the PA160....

Cathar and/or Marci might state the reasoning behind this ofcourse... But I don't think the main issue is performance difference between dual pass vs single pass.
The issue with single-pass is that you grow the rad vertically and that may cause compatibility issues with most cases... among other things this was also discussed in that procooling thread from last year.

BTW the next generation radis from HWlabs will be released soon X-Flow is just a single-pass config of the popular Black Ice series, not the next gen radis...

[cartmanea]

The issue with single-pass is that you grow the rad vertically and that may cause compatibility issues with most cases...

WHAT? What do yo mean by "grow the rad vertically"? They are the same rad with different tanks, the small change in dimensions will not cause hardly any incompatibility so that is not the major issue.

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

I think he means the continuing elongation of radiators. Not sure, though.

[dacooltech]

WHAT? What do yo mean by "grow the rad vertically"? They are the same rad with different tanks, the small change in dimensions will not cause hardly any incompatibility so that is not the major issue.

guess i should not refer to it as an issue, but as a major difference between single-pass vs dual-pass radiators in general...

FYI dual Pass Pro is 157mm (6.2") and X-Flow Pro is 172mm (6.8")... actually 15mm difference is very good for a single-pass radi over its dual-pass sibling... HWlabs definitely did an excellent job here...
but still can be a problem with some cases... also don't forget most cases with 120mm intake or exhaust fan openings have more room in the upper or lower section... the dual-pass BI radis are longer on the tank side, but shorter at the bottom...

[cartmanea]

Its really not an issue at all. They had to make the lower tank larger to accomodate the fitting and I think both were enlarged slightly because the water has to flow full length in the tanks to reach the opposite side. There is no increase in cooling surface area though, it is purely a difference in tank size.

[MaxxxRacer]

Well im glad they will be making a new rad... its been a long time..

I assume this one that you refer to will have a lower FPI.. any other details that are noteworthy?

[RVWinkle]

let me tell you this, as someone using a single-pass Pro3 for quite some time now: radiator performance-wise single-pass X-Flow radis perform the same as their dual-pass Black Ice siblings... But single-pass radiator helps certain water-blocks (ie impingement design) to perform slightly better...

This is some interesting information. I expected the same performance aspect and it's why I tried to caution 'upgraders'. I can't wait to see some good reviews. The price is excelent though.

BTW how objective is that "certain grumpy engineer who's maintained a highly respectable status in the PC water cooling" ?
Is he involved in design / manufacturing of competing radiators ? well if that's the case, he can't be really objective now can he?

Haha you bring up a very good point that I sometimes forget.

[Cathar]

BTW the next generation radis from HWlabs will be released soon X-Flow is just a single-pass config of the popular Black Ice series, not the next gen radis...

So basically no one should be buying an X-Flow rad then until the next-gen rads come out? Certainly seems that way if the next-gen rad release is imminent.

Not that such a revelation surprises me though. Marci and I deliberately waited until the X-Flow was out and about marketing wise before releasing the PA120's, but we rather cynically commented to each other the possibility that HWLabs would then announce yet another "Next-Gen" series of rads at about the same time as the PA120's were released.

[dacooltech]

So basically no one should be buying an X-Flow rad then until the next-gen rads come out? Certainly seems that way if the next-gen rad release is imminent.

I think people should be buying Black Ice dual-pass and single-pass X-Flow radis, especially at the current low prices... BI radis became an excellent value and I highly doubt these prices can go any lower...
I just wanted to highlight that the X-Flow radis are simply single-pass configs of Black Ice series... they are not the next-gen radis from HWlabs that people been waiting for...
I have no pricing info, whatsoever, but the price of the next-gen radis will be much higher IMHO...