GeForce 9900 GTX & GTS Slated For July Launch

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Originally Posted by GoldenTiger

Right, because I remember the past, I have Alzheimer's? Sounds like you do more than me, though personal insults are usually the resort of those who have no other ammo to debate with as you obviously do not. I bought all of the cards within a week or two of their launches always... before the 6800-series and ATI equivalents it was always that way ($300-350 tops, less often). This is a new trend that is ludicrous, $600-650+ is way too much for a card both historically and in modern-day money period. You can buy a whole gaming computer for that which performs 80% as well as a $650 card.

Being a show-off is obvious... you act like getting fleeced is "cool" and "smart" when it is not. :rofl::rofl: :down: :shrug: :ROTF::ROTF:

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You are pretty much insulting anyone here that buys highend hardware. And what makes this worse is that you have a very selective memory for your arguements. I and a few others have already shown that the trend for hardware of 300 dollar hardware has not been around in a while and was never really a historical trend to begin with really. In addition, NV didn't just pop out the 8800gtx at 599. The price has been like that for a while for true high end(look through this thread).

Since this is xtremesystems, an enthusiest website about highend hardware, your calling alot of people stupid here for spending lots of money on the latest and greatest hardware. Of course your going to get flammed(which has mainly been attacking your arguements). If anything you have made the rudest comment here.

This comment
Being a show-off is obvious... you act like getting fleeced is "cool" and "smart" when it is not. :rofl::rofl: :down: :shrug: :ROTF::ROTF

Says anyone with highend hardware is a showoff, buys into marketing, gets ripped off and is stupid. Seriously on a site like this, your lucky your not banned because this applies to alot of of the members here. Its alright to attacks someone argument but your above comment is a direct personal attack on a lot of people. There's really no other interpretation.

What even more ridiculous is your selective memory or your blanket statements, which makes your comments even more maddenning when you condescend on us.

Your memory is very selective for your arguments because, you choose not to ackknowledge alot of cards have been higher than 300 dollars. Which we have already shown in this thread, which dozen of MSRP all over the place. Also you are labelling all the card you own as high end when they are not.

And if we say a card is expensive to make or anything to that effect, you vedo it or say it is a poor argument because we are just gullible and falling to marketing. Is stuff getting more expensive not a valid argument when world trend have shown this?

Industry insiders are saying yields are bad and real hardware engineers around here say that the card is expensive to make. Heck even the long lineup of components and specs show(Die size and complexity of the card it self) it an expensive card. Your rebuttle, that marketing garbage(even those most people who buy this card don't know most of this information), begin to insult us and say we are all suckers.

Thats hogwash and acting really ignorant because you are ignoring alot of information that can justify our arguments valid.

Seriously don't peddle your so called answer here.

P.S your the only one throwing around personal insults.

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Originally Posted by gojirasan

The pricing debate here made me curious. The last two cards I have bought before my current one were a Geforce4 Ti 4400 for around $330 and a Geforce2 for just under $300. Here is what I found with some googling. It's called boiling a frog. The Riva 128 could be had for about $130. here you can see the TNT2 Ultra, a summer 1999 refresh of the TNT2 selling on release for only $180. In this firingsquad review you can see that the first geforce cards with DDR ram were selling at $299 MSRP. These were the top end Asus cards at that time (12/99) and Creative was selling a geforce 256 DDR card for $250. Here is a nice comparison chart from tomshardware that gives a good idea for prices at the start of 2000. I still have my Elsa Erazor X2 which was selling for just under $300. Again, state of the art and arguably the best brand at the time. It was not until the Geforce2 Ultra at $500 MSRP that we started to get a hint of current pricing. It was rumoured that such pricing was simply to compete against the $600 3dfx Voodoo 5 6000. and indeed here you can see a geforce3 for $280 (street price) in 09/2001. And by the end of 2001 you can see that the top of the line Nvidia card, the geforce3 Ti 500 had an MSRP of $350. In 2002 the bar was raised again with the geforce4 Ti 4600 selling for just under $400. By summer 2003, we are again back to an MSRP of $499 for the top end card, geforce FX 5900 Ultra. This was replaced in October with the FX 5950, again at the $499 price point. Fast forward to the summer refresh of 2004 and we have the 6800 Ultra at $499 again. Although the non-ultra 6800 GT could be had for just under $400. By the end of 2005 Nvidia is selling the geforce 7800 GTX 512 for $700. And that is the street price at the time. By spring of 2006, the 7900 GTX is released at $499. Then in November of 2006 the ever famous and still king of graphics cards, the 8800 GTX was released at just over $600. So it set a new record for both perforrmance and for cost. Although the 8800 ultra had an MSRP of $829, it soon dropped to about $700 probably due to the fact that no one was buying them. I wonder if Nvidia was testing the waters to see how much people would really be willing to pay for a top end graphics card. It seems like they were trying to go for a similar pricing strategy to Intel, with the fastest product costing a huge premium.

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I think this quote says it all.

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Originally Posted by tajoh111

You are pretty much insulting anyone here that buys highend hardware. And what makes this worse is that you have a very selective memory for your arguements. I and a few others have already shown that the trend for hardware of 300 dollar hardware has not been around in a while and was never really a historical trend to begin with really. In addition, NV didn't just pop out the 8800gtx at 599. The price has been like that for a while for true high end(look through this thread).

Since this is xtremesystems, an enthusiest website about highend hardware, your calling alot of people stupid here for spending lots of money on the latest and greatest hardware. Of course your going to get flammed(which has mainly been attacking your arguements). If anything you have made the rudest comment here.

This comment
Being a show-off is obvious... you act like getting fleeced is "cool" and "smart" when it is not. :rofl::rofl: :down: :shrug: :ROTF::ROTF

Says anyone with highend hardware is a showoff, buys into marketing, gets ripped off and is stupid. Seriously on a site like this, your lucky your not banned because this applies to alot of of the members here. Its alright to attacks someone argument but your above comment is a direct personal attack on a lot of people. There's really no other interpretation.

What even more ridiculous is your selective memory or your blanket statements, which makes your comments even more maddenning when you condescend on us.

Your memory is very selective for your arguments because, you choose not to ackknowledge alot of cards have been higher than 300 dollars. Which we have already shown in this thread, which dozen of MSRP all over the place. Also you are labelling all the card you own as high end when they are not.

And if we say a card is expensive to make or anything to that effect, you vedo it or say it is a poor argument because we are just gullible and falling to marketing. Is stuff getting more expensive not a valid argument when world trend have shown this?

Industry insiders are saying yields are bad and real hardware engineers around here say that the card is expensive to make. Heck even the long lineup of components and specs show(Die size and complexity of the card it self) it an expensive card. Your rebuttle, that marketing garbage(even those most people who buy this card don't know most of this information), begin to insult us and say we are all suckers.

Thats hogwash and acting really ignorant because you are ignoring alot of information that can justify our arguments valid.

Seriously don't peddle your so called answer here.

P.S your the only one throwing around personal insults.

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I suggest you re-read the comments IN CONTEXT. I was being insulted, so I responded back with facts. I also noted that YOU acted like paying MSRP meant you were cool somehow, which you did by inference easily.

Please show me where the cards were that expensive prior to the 6800 series. The post I quoted above shows they were not. We're talking an overall timespan of 10 years here, not 1,000 years, which qualifies as recent by standard definition.

Highend hardware is a relative term... if it performs 80-100% as well as the best of the best out there, it is high-end to any reasonable person.

I'd appreciate your use of proper grammar and spelling when flinging demeaning, silly insults at me. It's quite hard to take someone seriously when they write like that. Try re-reading the facts in this thread, and don't be scared to admit that sometimes, you CAN be wrong. Being stubborn about a misguided opinion based off of false "facts" is not bolstering your argument. Tearing down your false argument is hardly personally insulting, I don't know why you might interpret it that way unless you are as materialistic as I hinted I thought you might be earlier.

As far as your "point" about things being more expensive, do you think it was any easier for them to develop previous cards? Sure wasn't, yet they put them out at the lower prices. It is indeed a poor argument to try and pull the "OOH it's shiny new tech! it SHOULD be expensive!" card out of the hat.

On your saying I should be banned for having a different opinion than yours, well, I think that says it all. You can't possibly accept someone else's view, and thus lash out at it.

Anyway, I think this has been hashed out enough, so I'm done with it. Thread has become WAY derailed.

Seems to me me you grabbed the tiger by the tail! careful he might bite.:shakes:

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Originally Posted by purefun65

Seems to me me you grabbed the tiger by the tail! careful he might bite.:shakes:

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If we're using analogies, it's more like them having been eaten alive by the tiger :p: .

We want results no more MSRP's talk... let's get back on topic... each one has it's points, hardware demands differ, prices too ; some spends ridicilous amounts of cash, some are more economical : to each his own

I suggest you re-read the comments IN CONTEXT. I was being insulted, so I responded back with facts. I also noted that YOU acted like paying MSRP meant you were cool somehow, which you did by inference easily.

Noone claimed it was cool, how can you inference that? Its just the best thing to use in an arguement because you can prove it, and not a unique case such as an open box. E.g I got 280 gtx for 299 because of a sale on hardware and it was open box. It would turn this argument into a battle of unsubstantiated claims. This would be fruitless.

Please show me where the cards were that expensive prior to the 6800 series. The post I quoted above shows they were not. We're talking an overall timespan of 10 years here, not 1,000 years, which qualifies as recent by standard definition.

We have shown that the price of videocards has been on the rise. That enought to prove that your 300 dollar historical trend is wrong which is entire basis of your arguement. It not a static statistic we can lament about. In addition to this we can show a whole crap load with a price above the 300 dollar price point(it also illustrates the price on the rise).

Geforce 2 ultra MSRP = 500 ATI 7500 = 199
Geforce Ti 500 MSRP = 350 ATI 8500 = 299
Geforce Ti 4600 MSRP = 399 ATI 9700 pro = 399
Geforce 5900 ultra = 499 ATI 9800XT = 499

and now we are at the current generation we are now at the 6800 generation and we know how that went.

Highend hardware is a relative term... if it performs 80-100% as well as the best of the best out there, it is high-end to any reasonable person.

To keep this debate consistent, we have to take the price of the highest end product. Otherwise your complaint of 650 dollar videocards become much weaker. E.g Both the 8800 gts(640) and the 280 gtx have a price of 449 and fit into your description of highend. Are we going to now lament about $449 high end cards? Keep it consistent.

I'd appreciate your use of proper grammar and spelling when flinging demeaning, silly insults at me. It's quite hard to take someone seriously when they write like that. Try re-reading the facts in this thread, and don't be scared to admit that sometimes, you CAN be wrong.

You mean to buy highend hardware on initial release(personally I wait until the scalping is done, so I can buy at MSRP or lower). Of course its expensive and in terms of economics not the best choice, but their are untangible benefits which why people buy Ferrari's, Mercedes benz and other things. And thankfully unlike those which are mostly to showoff, PC hardware is purely about performance.

Being stubborn about a misguided opinion based off of false "facts" is not bolstering your argument. Tearing down your false argument is hardly personally insulting, I don't know why you might interpret it that way unless you are as materialistic as I hinted I thought you might be earlier.

So what makes them false fact, because you say so? Are you saying everyone that says the 280 gtx expensive to manufacture is misguided and wrong. I think you have alot of people to talk to. What makes your facts more valid than mine when you can find the evidence for alot of it from very credible people.

It depends on your definition of materialistic, if you mean that I show off and brag that I have so and so hardware, I would never do that. If I get hardware it's so I can enjoy it myself. So does wanting to performance mean your materialistic. Again with the personal insults and this one has no basis. So is everyone at xtremesystems, who has a highend hardware hobby materialistic now(not saying some aren't).

Your not tearing down anything when you have nothing to back your arguements up.

Everyone here is speaking against you, no one is on your side in terms of your side of the argument. I think you might be the one wrong.
As far as your "point" about things being more expensive, do you think it was any easier for them to develop previous cards? Sure wasn't, yet they put them out at the lower prices. It is indeed a poor argument to try and pull the "OOH it's shiny new tech! it SHOULD be expensive!" card out of the hat.

The more complex things are, the more difficult it is to manufacture; that is common sense. The cost of operations and building something with new tech is more expensive. Plus most people here, don't look at something at see woo new tech we should buy it. First off we look at the performance. Typically new generation hardware blows everything out of the park when it is released. E.g the 8800 gtx was faster than a 7800 gtx in SLI when it was released, we don't buy it because it is simply new tech, we buy it because it bring a higher level of performance with it. This performance (at least upon release) is a result typically of new components (which add to the expense to varying degree's). If its expensive and performs like a boat, we won't touch the thing with a ten foot pole. In fact in disgust, we will lose respect for the company and buy the competitor product.

Sure the prices were lower in the past, but they didn't invest as much money into developing the chips(research) or add as complex components as we have now. And probaly made similar margins(percentage wise). If the highend chip price was 200 like 12 years ago, I can guarentee you that we wouldn't have close to the transister counts, the amount of memory or performance we have availible today. Heck the software bundles of these things are sometimes 100 dollars in games.

I want you to answer this question the most. Do you think we could release the 280 GTX at the 300 dollar price point upon initial release considering its complexity,yields and manufacturing process. Answer this please. If you cannot, that is why you are wrong.

If your basis is the price of the g92 chips, Smaller chips(90nm vs 65nm), Yields have gotten better, stuff have been cut, price of components have dropped, etc. That is why the 8800gtx was so expensive and the 8800gt was so cheap. When I say I want my tech early, I am saying I would rather buy the 8800gtx when it came out, then wait for the cost of things to settle down and get the 8800gt much much later.

On your saying I should be banned for having a different opinion than yours, well, I think that says it all. You can't possibly accept someone else's view, and thus lash out at it.

You can have another opinion, that not the problem. Its when you have personal attacks against someone that the problem I have. Serious I didn't attack you at all. I think lasthing out is when you start insulting or insinuating things against a person BTW, you directed that comment at someone else, not me.

Anyway, I think this has been hashed out enough, so I'm done with it. Thread has become WAY derailed.[/QUOTE]

Anyways, I think I will stop derailing this topic, I am really excited about the new GTX as you can tell.

It's pretty simple, latest greatest GPU is expensive. Always has been.

Perhaps start another thread about GTX-200 pricing. This thread is for performance leaks and speculation, I thought. ;)

Vantage results for GTX 280, 260, Radeon HD 4870 and 4850

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Both the GeForce GTX and Radeon HD 4800 series will arrive in about three weeks. Each series will bring two new cards to the market; GeForce GTX 280 and 260, and Radeon HD 4870 and 4850. There is a big difference between the cards though as the GeForce GTX series is enthusiast range, while Radeon HD 4800 series is more mid-range. There have been talks of what GeForce GTX 280 can do in Vantage, but it has now been completed with figures for the other cards.

These are of course in no way official and we can't say for certain where they come from. The only thing we know is that the numbers are not unreasonable, but some information about the rest of the system would be nice. ATI performance (with all cards) is still subpar due to poor drivers, and should improve in Vantage with coming releases. The numbers that are circulating the web are something like this;

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/509...resultsmd5.jpg

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7809.html

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regards

HD 48xx scores are not real http://www.forumdeluxx.de/forum/show...postcount=1378 .

How does the physics portion of the gfx card work? If it works like the ageia physics card then its going to steal some points, think it was around 900 (?).

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Originally Posted by whocaresbg

HD 48xx scores are not real http://www.forumdeluxx.de/forum/show...postcount=1378 .

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DEAD LINK

Actually you've been posting the exact same dead link all day now x(

I want to know where all the GX2s will go if those numbers are true though 0_0

Perkam

Link has worked for me....all day... ;)

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Originally Posted by CJ

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Zitat von Xptweaker
Zoiets?

HD 4870XT (R770): X2595
HD 4850Pro (R770): X1981

Oh wacht, verkeerd topic

genau so seriös und aussagekräftig

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Thanks for quoting me and changing the numbers into RV770 numbers.

The X-numbers I got for the GTX 280/260 are very much realistic. Believe me or not (just check my post history on Beyond3D to see how credible my numbers usually are). P11xxx scores are doable for GTX 280.

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Nvidia GT200 sucessor tapes out

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http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...sucessor-tapes

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The GT200b will be out in late summer or early fall, instantly obsoleting the GT200. Anyone buying the 65nm version will end up with a lemon, a slow, hot and expensive lemon. Kind of like the 5800. It would suck for NV if word of this got out. Ooops, sorry.

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http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9...altpileeu3.jpg

That will change the game between ATI and Nvidia..... ATi might recapture a large amount of Market unless Nvidia starts dropping prices and will in turn Drop their Earnings for 2008. This seems to make things interesting again!

if those scores are true then GT200 doesn`t sound as a such powerful GPU like a few weeks ago. Some guy on Pcinlife forum has said that GT200 can run 7K in 3dmark Vantage in X-mode (strange because this guy has said other info which we know they are true) and the we see that it`s score is about 40% lower and only about 10% higher than GX2 score.
I wonder how this GPU can run Crysis playable in 1920x1200 AA/AF enabled with only 4K in 3dmV? It`s only 2 times faster than G92 so to run Crysis playable at these settings GT200 has to be about 3 times faster.

ooh, ubr bash

so lets put theinq text together:

there will be cards at launch and they will be fast, but there will be so few that the gross of oems dont even care ordering some, especially because that chip will be EOLd after only 3 months:eek:

looking like a sphinx built from 9800 XXX lifetime and x850xt pe+7800 gtx 512mb availability (well, at least that card was ordered by oem; dell)

but which guy that chip is aimed at wouldnt care less....
itll be the fastest thing around, 'nuff said :D

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Originally Posted by fornowagain

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...sucessor-tapes



http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9...altpileeu3.jpg

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IF this article is true,then NV will not be able to create GX2 based on GT200b even if it is built on 55nm process...The die will still be quite big(400mm2).TDP of GX2-like card based on these would blow out of the water the now confirmed large TDP of GTX280.
But,like i said,if the article is based on a real informations.

On another side,we'll have AMD with their cheap RV770 performance parts that will cost lot less,heat our rooms less(and yes,without the X2 R700 part,perform most likely somewhat worse).But competition is a good thing,prices will no doubt go down as AMD,through their partners, starts massive production of their RV770 chips.

If theinq got some facts right, for anyone interested in a single GPU solution unlike SLI, x2 or GX2 it'll be still worth the money IF you bought a card with the possibility for step-up. You would just need to wait a bit before buying to make sure that your 3 months step-up time are enough to get a gt200b...
But of course they forgot to mention something like this. I'm by no means an nV fanboy, but it would just have been a bit more on the fair side side, instead of bashing the sh*t out of a chip that isn't even on the market yet. I think nV accomplished something in making this monster sort of work. And being able to turn down the heating in the winter due to your shiny new gpu accounts to something, too, doesn't it?

A sidenote: the author mentioned the term "Itanic", ignoring the fact that Intel, after years, starts to make money with a "new" architecture. Poor idiot I say. :shakes:

The wordusage alone told it was clueless charlie that wrote it. Even before opening the article. Now thats foresight :p:

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Originally Posted by informal

IF this article is true,then NV will not be able to create GX2 based on GT200b even if it is built on 55nm process...The die will still be quite big(400mm2).TDP of GX2-like card based on these would blow out of the water the now confirmed large TDP of GTX280.
But,like i said,if the article is based on a real informations.

On another side,we'll have AMD with their cheap RV770 performance parts that will cost lot less,heat our rooms less(and yes,without the X2 R700 part,perform most likely somewhat worse).But competition is a good thing,prices will no doubt go down as AMD,through their partners, starts massive production of their RV770 chips.

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While the TDP would be closer to 300W it is possible for a GX2 to be made, altho it would probably come stock with water cooling. Don't be surprised to see 55nm G200 before too long. Wityh 260 & 280 used, there is still 270 & 290 available for a 55nm refresh.

What's up with Demerjians personal Crusade against nVidia?

It's ridiculous?!!! :confused: :shakes: :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Tim

What's up with Demerjians personal Crusade against nVidia?

It's ridiculous?!!! :confused: :shakes: :shrug:

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Probably because the Inq wasn't invited for "nVidia Editors Day" :ROTF::rofl:

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Originally Posted by Tim

What's up with Demerjians personal Crusade against nVidia?

It's ridiculous?!!! :confused: :shakes: :shrug:

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He's a DAAMIT shill, always has been. He was spewing the same kind of BS about the G80 before it came out. Check out this laugh riot from the archives:

http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquir...rts-thickening

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Originally Posted by Periander6

He's a DAAMIT shill, always has been. He was spewing the same kind of BS about the G80 before it came out. Check out this laugh riot from the archives:

http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquir...rts-thickening

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L O FAKn L at that article. What a tool. :ROTF: :rofl:

I think people are too worried about whether NV can put out an X2 version of this 280 card, there's a more conventional way of getting that kind of performance - it's called SLI!

Say 4870X2 does pip GTX280 to the performance post, what would it have to say to 2 x GTX280's?:confused: I imagine both the cost and performance differences will be there for sure. Maybe we're going to end up putting 2 x 4870X2's against 3 x GTX280's for the Vantage WR's.