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?? So you consider Lee/RoboTech an idiot? He made the copper die tests and he also said that they don't seem to reflect real world CPUs which have IHS installed. So I really don't understand your comment or your analogy. Could you elaborate? (lol, now I uderstand: you own Storm...)Quote:
Originally Posted by creidiki
A better analogy: 10 people tell the world is spehrical, 1 person tells it is flat but he also tells that his observation seems to be incorrect. Yes, I believe all of them.
#1 is a VERY bad way to measure the performance of a waterblock considering how finicky overclocking is. you would need to use the same CPU and alot of CPU's degrade their overclock over time. Its just not even close to being reliable, and as far from scientific as you can get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paapaa
#2 is in theory a VERY good way, but the problem is that you need a 840EE at 5ghz (high volts too) and a HIGHLY accurate and calibrated RTD probe based system with atleast .01C resolution/accuracy. 0.001C resolution is preferable. And to be frank, i dont know of any publicly available products that give 0.001 resolution.
With a heat load of around 250-300 watts from an overclocked/overvlolted 840EE it would make the increase a bit larger than any other waterblock so measuring the dT would be eaiser, but still pretty dificult. Also, when you get up to around 3GPM for the testing, things would get even more dificult due to the dT decreasing
But in all seriousness, if you have a spare 100,000 dollars to spend on a setup like that (or however much it would cost as I have no real idea) then go for it as it would provide some VERY intersting data.
Of course it has to be done with the same CPU. But that way we would get actual data which should show the real difference between blocks. And who cares about "scientific" if the results don't have any practical meaning at all - as with Lee's results. If Apogee and Storm gave identical overclock on 10 different processors and Lee's 14mmx14mm copper simulator gives huge differences, do you still believe Storm is the superior block and everyone should "try to avoid" Apogee? Unfortunately we only have results from one single test (made by Swiftech and won by Apogee).Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer
And the bottom line is again: if the differences (to one way or another) are that small, why would you recommend members to buy one block over another? I'm starting to believe that all who seem to reject all the real CPU data actually own Storm... I might be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer
The biggest problem with using overclocking is that its not reliable. Not even close. You could for some wierd reason get better temps with a Maze1 than a MP-05/Storm/Whatever just based on the oddity of the CPU and the mounting system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paapaa
Lets put things into perspective here. At normal flowrates (1.2gpm) the water does not heat up much per pass due to water high heat capacity. Because of this, even with a 10C delta in die temps, with my current equipment, I would most likely not be able to tell the difference. My equipment has a 0.1C resolution with accuracy worse than .1C. As pH (Derek) found out, the delta T for his 70watt heat load (not sure the GPM but i think it was 1.5gpm) was around .03C or so. so you see its VERY hard to meausre this, even if the difference between two waterblocks is large.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paapaa
i can see the test here using the 14mmx14mm setup as most people here seem to remove at some point thier IHS to get a little(or alot in some cases) more overclock. you know, get a little more of an xtreme result:D
please take this as my personal opinion from what little i have read here in the forums and my still minimal knowledge in watercooling. just seems like at a forum like this where people are looking for that extra through any means the test Maxxxracer does is more relevant to the people here.
if three or four water blocks perform very closely with the cpu's IHS on but begin to show much different results with it removed. then it would be nice to know which block performs the best with the IHS removed. maybe if the funds and Maxxx's willingness are there, then there could be a test rig that would simulate a cpu with the IHS and another with the cpu naked. this way we could see both results and make our own decisions which way we will go in our purchasing choices.
in a nutshell, a waterblock that may not seem superior in one test will show it's worth in the other allowing the word to be used. especially when it comes to what i've seen as it is increasingly difficult to improve on watercooling blocks to any significant degree most would consider.
I agree 100%: if you remove IHS, then Storm is most likely the best block. The same applies to old Athlon XP which doesn't have IHS. But how many users really remove IHS ruining the 3 year warranty and possibly killing the processor? Is that really a common practice? It may also become more difficult if the IHSs will be non-removable in the future like in Pentiums - but that is just speculation.Quote:
Originally Posted by omga14
And nevertheless this should be mentioned in the sticky!! My suggetion:
"If your processor has IHS, all the waterblocks will give you identical performance and you should buy the cheapest. If you remove IHS (and ruin your warranty) you will see some differences between various blocks."
haha, alot of the guys here don't really worry to much about removal of their IHS's. either way what you say is fair enough with me:D most(i won't dare say all) who do remove their IHS off the cpu are pretty well experienced with handling the procedure and know the penalties involved if they scew it up.
either way i can respect your arguement.
no offense but the first part of that statement is pretty ignorant and one that I will remedy in the not too distant future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paapaa
No offense taken, it really was meant to be provocative. It would be good if someone could shed a little light on this issue - IMO it is not clear at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer
I am in the process of doing a waterblock review/roundup with an IHS capped winchester 3000 based system.. check my test rig worklog if u want some more info.
Hi, y'all. I've been reading this thread with a bit of excitement because i'm going to be water cooling my next rig, and don't want to spend more than I have to. I read all of those reviews posted a while back of the apogee, including the french one (no translation needed, since I happen to be a native speaker of french :) ) They compared the storm and the apogee on two pentium 4 procs (with the IHS on!), and found that the Apogee preformed marginally better :eek: .
http://www.cooling-masters.com/image...s/results1.png
http://www.cooling-masters.com/image...s/results2.png
translation: eau="water"; valeurs mesurees="measured values"; ecarts calcules= "calculated differences" [in temperature]; ventilos="fans" don't get freaked out by the comma's, european people use them instead of periods for decimals, so 35.1 is writen 35,1 by a european. P4 EE results:
http://www.cooling-masters.com/image...s/results3.png
They go on to say that the storm preforms much better for procs without an IHS (or with the IHS removed) because it provides intense cooling power concentrated in the center, over the core, where as the apogee should preform better on proc's with IHS, and especially on dual core procs, where the heat load is spread out much more evenly over the surface of the proc assembly, instead of just over the core. that actually makes sense to me, but all the reviews i've seen of the apogee are with single core proc's. Could some one do a test of the apogee against the storm, and also against a block in the apogee's price range (such as the RBX) to see which does better on a Dual core proc with an IHS. I really don't care how the storm preforms on other proc's because i'll be building my rig with one of the soon-to-be-released conroe proc's. :D
I actually hope the apogee does better, because wouldn't it be awesome to have a block for 5/8 the price of a storm that gave the same or better preformance?
EDIT: there is a disclaimer in the review that states that the comparisons were between the 2 swiftech kits, APEX and APEX ultra, not a pure comparison between the apogee and the storm.
Which completely invalidates any comparison between the blocks from that data.
Especially considering the ambient temps were .5-1c higher for the stomr tests.
true...but still, it would be nice to see a pure comparison between the two, with a dual core IHS proc. On a side note, for an SLI watercooling setup, is it better to put the GPU blocks in series, with one getting hotter water than the other, or in parralell, with each getting half the flow rate? Also, will I still be able to get good cooling on my 2 GPU's if I use a storm water block? those max out at 2 gpm, where as the apogee maxes out a 3gpm. I will be using a D5 pump.
series.
No it doesn't: the only difference in the setups was the block. How does it make the data invalid?Quote:
Originally Posted by creidiki
How did you make that conclusion? The Air-column shows higher values for Apogee, not for Storm! And they don't actually tell (if I understood correctly) what Air1 and Air2 means. It really seems to be the temperature of air that exits the radiator, not the temp of air that enters - you can see it from the picture on another page. You can also see also that ambient was held constant between 22-23 C (told on that another page).Quote:
Originally Posted by creidiki
For some reason the water got significantly hotter with Apogee than Storm. Maybe this is because more heat was transferred to water by Apogee - maybe due to faster flow? This would also explain the better CPU temperatures. It is clear that Apogee was the better block in that test - no matter how much you hate to see that result :)
Indeed that does not invalidate the results as they were using deltas. If they didnt use deltaT's it would invalidate the testing, but since they did use deltaT's its fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paapaa
The air temp was at the intake of the fans. Remember that fanas blow towards the 4 (or sometimes 3) support legs where the wires are routed. Here is a pic of their setup. Air1 and Air2 are the temps for each fan intake. Its best to have intakes on both fans so that you get more even handed results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paapaa
Intel suggest 3-4 thermocouples per fan (bread probes not the big honking ones used in this test), but that isnt realistic for 99% of testers who dont have the data collection units that are rather cost prohibitive, especialy for high accuracy ones. (For instance, the high accuracy RTD unit from fluke costs 15k)
http://www.cooling-masters.com/image...ges/sonde3.jpg
Ok, I though the fans were pulling air from radiator. Did they mention that the fans were pushing air into radiator?Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer
Nevertheless, the ambients were thus higher for Apogee and yet the CPU temps were slighly lower/equal. Had the ambient temperatures been equal, Apogee would've been even slightly better.
they didnt mentinon it, but that is indeed how its setup.. So I would assume thats how they did it unless they thought it would be funny to take the picture like that and set it up differently.. but the french are funny like that. ;)
Ok well i've been reading this post for a little while now and it has my interest. So interested that i signed up for an account.
i am fooling around with the idea of water for my rig, because my opty is running a little warm and i'm looking to overclock it more
i've looked around and found that swiftech overall is a well respected company and makes a damn fine kit.
I've been looking into the apex ultra alot, and i've also been looking into to some different blocks, i thought the apogee block was good and was gonna buy it.
Now i will be the first one to say i do not know much about water cooling at all...
http://www.overclockersonline.com/in...num=360&pnum=7
that seems to hint that the apogee block CAN be better than the storm.
I've seen a lot of talk about that block not being too good. Why? All the tests i have seen show it to be a solid performer in low and high flow settings.
Could someone help me out here?
A few possible reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtess17
1. Apogee is cheap, Storm is expensive -> how could Apogee be better?
2. Apogee is manufactured in China, Storm is manufactured in USA -> how could something manufactured in China be better than something manufactured in USA?
3. Apogee uses "old fashioned" technology, Storm uses high-tech-jet-impingement-system -> how could old technology beat a new innovation?
This is all about impressions, not about facts. All the real CPU tests so far (including the one you posted) show that apogee is equally good/slightly better than Storm. Yet these forums have so many Storm fanboys bashing Apogee. Go figure...
IMO the difference is totally, absolutely insignificant between most waterblocks out there. Buy the cheapest/most beautiful and buy a large radiator. Radiator has soooo much more influence on temps than the design of the block.
Thanks for your reply. I think i might just get the apex ultra then, regardless of block seems to be a damn fine system. I was just wondering if it was worth it to buy a different block, but i guess not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paapaa
and to the possible reasons if people are really thinking along those lines.
1. More expessive does not always = better. Scythe Ninja is a lot less expensive than the Zalman 9500 yet they perform on par with a slight edge to the ninja in some cases.
2. Although i love the USA, and like trying to buy things from this country, let's face facts. Many of the products we use everyday are from a another country. I'd say most of our computer parts are.
3. Old tech new tech. blah blah. Sometimes things are a step backwards.
Intel has changed over to what many consider to be a old tech for the new procs. does that mean they are no good?
now my next question if i may, i understand that the rad size has a lot to do with the performace of a given system.
if i only plan to cool my processor at this point (oppty 170) what temp differences would i see from a single 120 dual 120 or a tri 120?
Also overall how much heat does each new component add to the loop? say i add my gpu's can a 2x 120 rad still handle that?
quite a lot from single to double, not much from double to triple , though you will be able to slow down the fans a lot on the triple.
you should really make a separate thread for thhsi tho :)
A few questions:
1. I'm moving from stock fan to a maze gpu block on a 7800gt soon. I guess I need ramsinks, these as good as any? - http://www.dangerdenstore.com/produc...&cat=57&page=1
2. do I need active air on those sinks? I have two 120mm case fans (input and exhaust), a 120mm active on my ram and a 90mm active on pwmic.
3. and who can tell me anything about this radiator - http://www.dangerdenstore.com/produc...&cat=14&page=1 - is it a "noisy rad" or "silent" type. does it even compare to the ones Max suggested? This is my current rad - I'm moving to the DDC+ pump and Storm CPU water block - currently on Mag3 pond pump and DD TDX cpu block
Thanks
Chad
1/2. they work ok without but youd want the swiftech mcr14 sinks for best indirect ariflow performance. ive got those as well.
3. noisy, cores need strong fans
.Quote:
Originally Posted by creidiki
Part of the reason I'm asking all these questions, is that my son is inheriting the components that I change out and building his own system, so I’m spoiling myself with better components.
Just wondering if anyone has any experience with the dd provided dual 120mm heater core linked in my previous link. Would it be considered a noisy (crank some cfm to it), or a quite – does fine with moderate cfm. Or do the w/c custom dual 120mm rads out perform the old car heater cores?
Once again, here’s the rad .. http://www.dangerdenstore.com/produc...&cat=14&page=1
Thanks
Chad
Once again:
noisy. cores need strong fans. more specifically high static-pressure fans, in push-pull if space permits.
cool,when I bought that rad, I bought the two fans they marketed with it. They are silver and pretty and quite, and likely the wrong choice (they do not move much air). I'll design new mounting for push pull.
creidiki - thank you very much for all of your input! Much appreciated.
Chad
MaxxxRacer: Can you add a fans section to the component guide? Would be useful as it seems to be quite a common question.
maybe tubes section wil be helpful
are those good ?
7/16" ID (5/8" OD) Masterkleer General Purpose Clear PVC Tubing
will be used on 1/2 cpu , gpu block and pump
yes, they are great, and cheap too
ok thanks
here are the final items i am going to purchase probably from PEtra's Tech Shop as a support for this forum's member and also since there is not other place with nice prices and available items ;)
- AquaXtreme MP-05 PRO Limited Edition w/ Derlin MidPlate
- Swiftech MCW60 GPU Waterblock
- Laing D5/Swiftech MCP655 Inline 12vDC Pump
- Swiftech MCR-320 "Quiet Power" Series Radiator - Black
- 7/16" ID (5/8" OD) Masterkleer General Purpose Clear PVC Tubing => 12 feet
- 1/2" OD T-Fitting (for 1/2" and 7/16" ID Tubing) ==> instead of a Res.
Subtotal for Petra's Tech Shop: 257.84
any sug. or better things i can get for the same price range and from same site ? i won't mind if u can suggest anything which may be cheaper and won't decrease the performance
ddc+
with storm and mp-1 the highe head would be useful!
i can't find the DDC+ on petra's site , and i need to buy all of my stuff from one place
so should i change the vga block to MCW60 just to decrease the flow restriction ??
i would do that anyway. wont get any different gpu tems, and dont need that high restriction on the gpu!
ok thanks for ur tip :)
since the MP-1 CPU block has the same design as the MP-5 Pro LE
but it only costs 48$ , does that means that the MP-1 is the best bang for buck and that i shall get ti instead of the Storm for 80$
MP-1 ==> http://www.petrastechshop.com/aqmpuncpuwab.html
MP-5 ==> http://www.petrastechshop.com/aqmpproliedu.html
the rest fo the system i am planning to buy is in post #131
MP-1 has the same basic design yes, BUT:
Lower pin count.
No injector plates.
Keeping in mind that the non-LE versions of the MP-05 were very close to the storm, the LE with #3 plate should be equal at the least.
And the basic MP-05 is a little better than the MP-1 - more pins, and a midplate.
So youve got the whole gamut of block performance there, from mid-perforamance on a budget (MP-1) to peak performance at nearly storm levels (MP-05 SP LE or Pro LE w. #3 plate)
So, just decide how much cash you wanna spend on your CPU block, and buy the MP-05 that fits your budget (with delrin midplate pack or delrin #3 plate), or, indeed, just get the MP-1.
well if i can't find a better price to perfromance ratio block i will get the Storm for sure
but i don't want to buy it and find out that i could have got something cheaper which will differ only 1~2C @ load
ok then mp-1 is ot in my mind anymore
so from ur words the AquaXtreme MP-05 PRO Limited Edition which is 15$ cheaper than the stomr should give the same performance like the storm
if u were me which one will u get if money is not an issue ?
sorry for asking a lot and bothering u
*shrug* for myself, i would get the MP-05 Pro LE and the Delrin Midplate Pack (for the #3 jet plate).
But thats aestetics, SP LE ends up consting the same (it comes with #3 already, just make sure to spend 1$ more on the delrin version), so the difference is all the top plate material, delrin or brass?
The MP-05 is more flexible as a block, imo, with the different midplates... and larger primary cooling area than the storm its not so naked-core-centric. But in the end you might as well choose which name youd like to have more in your sig.
Your choice.
If i dont manage to grab a Storm G7 ill probably end up getting myself an MP-05 to try on my opty :)
then the AquaXtreme MP-05 PRO Limited Edition it is with the Derlin Midplate :)
Thanks for ur help
but what about teh G7 ? where r u getting it from ?
My final list till now
- AquaXtreme MP-05 SP Limited Edition w/ Derlin MidPlate
- Swiftech MCW60 GPU Waterblock
- Laing D5/Swiftech MCP655 Inline 12vDC Pump
- Swiftech MCR-320 "Quiet Power" Series Radiator - Black
- 7/16" ID (5/8" OD) Masterkleer General Purpose Clear PVC Tubing => 12 feet
- 1/2" OD T-Fitting (for 1/2" and 7/16" ID Tubing) ==> instead of a Res.
- Machined Delrin Fillport/T-Line Cap
remember, you need the delrin midplate pack (7$) to get the #3(injector) plate with the Pro, it comes with the #2(X) plact as stock. if you cant get the plate pack @ petra you'll have to go for the SP.
G7? Im in the "interest list". I doubt I'll get in (cathar will be making less than 35) but one can hope :)
No, you dont need those for the pump, theyre for the MCW55.
ops seems that i won't be able to get the #3 from petra
then i will go with the SP
@ SaFrOuT: Your order from petras looks solid, but you should consider a few other alternatives too.
CPU block
Check out D-TEKs blocks, it's the same stuff as AquaXtreme. You can buy D-TEK from vcore.dk, they also sell nozzle kits. And why all this talk about MP-05 and noone mentions alphacools nexXxos XP? XP performs about the same as MP-05, slightly worse than storm. It's cheap too, only $50 from alphacool.
Pump
I'd say this is the worst component in your list, why the D5? Sure it's better than most pumps, but I'd get a DDC-Ultra or 50Z instead. DDC-Ultra is cheapest at alphacool.com, they also sell 7/16" ID tygon (and nexXxos XP!). If you modify the original top (guide) you can save a few bucks and buy the 18w DDC w/o plexi top. (DDC-1PlusT @ alphacool)
GPU block
MCW60 is a very good block, but at petras it doesn't come with MC14 I belive? Do you already own BGA sinks? A couple of GPU blocks that performs about the same is Danger Dens maze4, AQX/D-TEKs MP-1 and Silverprops Fusion. I chose Fusion because I like the way it looks.
Radiator
It's hard to beat petras price on Swiftechs rads! The closest thing here in Europe would be cooltek from ekwaterblocks.com, he also sells the best G1/4 1/2" barbs there is!
- AquaXtreme MP-05 SP Limited Edition w/ Derlin MidPlate
Consider D-TEK and nexXxos XP too.- Swiftech MCW60 GPU Waterblock
What about BGA heatsinks?- Laing D5/Swiftech MCP655 Inline 12vDC Pump
A DDC-Ultra or 50Z would probably perform better?- Swiftech MCR-320 "Quiet Power" Series Radiator - Black
A good, cheap rad! Cooltek from EKs is the closest thing here in Europe.- 7/16" ID (5/8" OD) Masterkleer General Purpose Clear PVC Tubing => 12 feet
I haven't tried masterkleer yet but it's supposed to be good.- 1/2" OD T-Fitting (for 1/2" and 7/16" ID Tubing) ==> instead of a Res.
Keep in mind that it's 1/2" OD which restricts the flow. Vcore.dk sells 1/2" ID T-Fittings.- Machined Delrin Fillport/T-Line Cap[/COLOR]
Probably the best fillport there is. There's no european counterpart.
Nexxxos: because hes buying from petras.
Pump: because hes buying from petras
GPU: because he's buying from... need I go on? hes having it all shipped to egypt as i understand, its gonna be a small fortune in shipping withoug using 10 different shops.
As for the barbs, MP-05 uses DD Highflow 9/16UNF thread 1/2 barbs which are the same barbs as sold by dtek *breathe*
(edited for capslock *punches keyboard*)
I know he's buying from petras. But sometimes you can get better performance at about the same price if you order from two stores instead of just one. Especially if the second store is located kinda close, like german alphacool. I'm not sure that's the case this time but he should at least consider it.
CPU block/Pump
Petras also sell the 50Z? An 18W DDC + NexXxos XP from alphacool and the rest from petras would probably give better performance at about the same price? He can probably get nexXxos XP locally too.
GPU block
Even if he's buying from petras he needs to cool the GPU mems? I just pointed out that if he don't already own memory heatsinks he should add a pack of MC14. I also mentioned a few other blocks that's equally good. I'm not saying he should choose one of them instead but at least he should consider them.
Barbs
I know that AQX/D-TEK use 9/16-18" NPT barbs. But MCR-320/cooltek, DDC-Ultra use G1/4". (and maybe the fillport too?) EKs shipping is really cheap, at least to Sweden. So maybe a cooltek rad from EKs would be cheaper than a Swiftech from petras? I don't know but he should consider it.
EDIT: Btw crediki what's that hi-tech gun/space ship in your sig?
Aye, to sweden. But i think i talked to him about shipping costs - or another dude from egpyt, and I seem to remembers its terribly expensive. And from what I understand someone else is actually buying the stuff from him, so keeping it simple is a concern.
Well, if he tells us it isnt then lets go crazy, DDC-Ultra and EK barbs and whatnot. Id still take the MP-05 over the Nexxxos tbh, but its a good alternative.
Well, thats why I havent been suggesting the stuff youre mentioning at any rate. As for the barbs, EK ones are very good, theyre nearly 7/16ID. You cant actually get 1/2ID G1/4 because the walls would have to be ~ 0.2mm thick or something.
The ship in my sig is an Armageddon-class Battleship from EVE-Online, screenshotted just after having blown up something BIG (hence the 'splosion)
thanks for the info, really helped :)
Well if he's only gonna buy from one store, petras sure is the one! If he sold 18W DDCs with delrin tops, ThermoChill or Coolingworks rads and more barbs and stuff it would be the ultimate wc shop!
I'd also choose MP-05 over XP since XP has a lots of narrow elbow channels in the top thanks to the stupid mounting mechanism. It looks kinda boring too. It's biggest advantage is that it's cheap and easy to get in europe.
EKs barbs are almost perfect. If they had a slightly bigger ID, a slightly sharper tip and where made of copper they would be perfect. :)
@ andersson.J as creidiki mentioned ( Thank you ) i live in Egypt and those stuff are for me personally and not gonna sell them ( maybe if i got them with a nice shipping + taxes + cutoms cost i may start getting other kits for selling but not this kit )
so the point is that i can only buy my stuff only from one site either from the USA or UK and nothing else and for sure i think USA is the better option
Petra also can ship directly to me while every other site in the USA will force me to ship to a friend and then he ship it to me which will cost more
so about the CPU block and GPU block and Rad i am pretty happy with those selections and if i will change anything it will be the cpu to Storm but i will follow creidiki and get the MP cause i trust him, and yes i already have ram sinks on my vga which came with teh VF-700 ( not the perfect solution but still enough )
about the pump Petra's have AquaXtreme 50Z-DC12 so will this be better than the MCP655 with the MP-5 in the lopp and a MCR-320 rad ?
if yes then i will get it cause i think 9w is for sure better than 24watt but will it be able ot handle the high res. cpu block and large Rad + the vga block
Also i have a friend who live in Netherlands and he can get me the stuff with no shipping or tax or cutoms costs but teh problem is that i haven't found anything good their to convinve me save and buy from NL and not the USA with the extra cost
can anyone living in the NL suggest me w/cing setup from any site there which SHOULD be as good as the one above form the USA or atleast not far behind ?
just foudn this site http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/491 bt i can't find a complete setup that will match the one i have chosen from PEtra
Nah, esp with the recent 50Z batches being noisy, i say take th D5 for your triple rad. The head on the 50Z would cope with that loop fine though.
then it is the D5
Thank you creidiki very much for ur help
so other than the midplate difference and top plate being nickel plated brass or delrin, is there any other difference between the MP-05 SP LE or Pro LE? Is there a reason you'd want delrin over the brass or vice versa? I'm looking at picking up one of the MP-05 LE's, but not sure if one is more advantageous than the other. I realize everyone likes the #3 midplate and that would be my choice as well, but I'd still get the delrin midplate kit regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by creidiki
No. Well, brass is heavyer so I suppose it puts more stress on your mobo or die but its still a heck of a lot better than a 600g airsink lol.
in gas stations they seel the green ( sometimes it is blue ) water made specially to use in cars' radiater which is known to have better heat transfer rate than water + stop rust ( i know it is useless for computer's w/cing ) and has higher boiling point
is using tihs water instead of distilled water will be better or atleast won't give worse performance since it looks more nice that normal transperant water
and won't it harm the pump in anyway
no one have any info about teh green water used in the car's Rad ?
Accoding to whom? It just sounds like a standard antifreeze+water premix. Which would lower the heat capacity of the water and raise the viscosity (if it is an ethelyne glycol based soloution) and thus lower it's cooling performance. (ever so slightly though)Quote:
Originally Posted by SaFrOuT
I'd bet money you wouldn't notice the difference cooling wise.Quote:
is using tihs water instead of distilled water will be better or atleast won't give worse performance since it looks more nice that normal transperant water
Pump will be fine.Quote:
and won't it harm the pump in anyway
thanks for the info
cause here in Egypt u can't get at all a di-ionized water + finding a REALLY distilled is very very hard and in the end it won't be as distilled as u imagine
and i forgot to order the HydrX with my order from Petras and it will cost me around 40$ to order it by itself
so i am searching for the best solution for me now
this coolant in the gas station has a label on it saying that it is made of Glycol G30 and there is another verison with G34 , does this make any sense ?
also due to our hot wether antifreeze and water wetter is not available any where
You don't have distilled/demineralised/deionised water at your supermarkets? Have you looked at a mechanics too?
The coolant will be fine BTW.
just distilled will be fine...
demineralised/deionised is a dream
and i don't trust the distilled water which si sold in the gas stations at all
all i can use is this untrusted distilled water or the coolants sold there to be used in Car's rad
ur not near a supermarket.... water such as alhambra or arrowhead (if its exported to egypt lol)
no it is not
i did my homework and searched with ZERO results
i know someone who work in the swimming pool area, i will ask him what do they use to avoid algue
Usually people just add drops of iodine to prevent algae.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaFrOuT
yah, pool people use chlorine (almost bleach)
so iodine is what everyone recommends to me
i foudn the perfect solutiong, here in EGypt they sell distilled water for medicine stuff in the pharmacy, so i think i will use it
but what is that iodine ?? is it something related to pools ? like chlorine
and won't it break or damage the Cu or plastic in the loop ?
I dont wanna open new thread so i'll ask here.
I ordered some WC-stuff.. PA120.3 MP-05 PRO LE and DangerDen Maze 4 Standard Profile.. But the shop accidentally shipped me the Low Profile Maze 4. And now they aren't no more stocking that SP model of it for some reason. So i'll asked them to ship me that MP-1 GPU-block.
But since both MP-05 PRO LE and MP-1 are quite restrictive I would like to know if my pump (Laing D5) would be able to handle that restriction.. Or should I use that Maze 4 LP that I already got and shave off a bit from the ramsinks so they would fit nicely?
the MAze4 LP has the same performance AFAIK as the SP one,so yes keep it and start installing them, beside don't forget to show us some pic of ur setup when u finish it
No distilled water?
What water do you guys use to iron your clothes then?
Hello and GREAT guide.
I'm just getting into WC and looking for a cpu block. I searched for the Swiftech MCW6002/6000 but they seem impossible to find. I was also looking for an all copper but that is hard to find too. What's a good block that can be "universal"? If that is not possible than what is the "next" best thing? Really don't want to go over high $50's. from reading it seems that pure copper is best way to go.
I have a micro case
Swiftech MCP350 pump
775 socket
Live in US
I'm getting the Swiftech h20-120 and looking for a different h2o Block. It comes with the apogee but looking for something "better" in the same price range or high $50's.
Should I just stay with the Apogee?
thanks
Is clearflex tubing usable? Because I'm rebuilding my setup and Tygon is very, very expensive here in Sweden.
Yes. it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viktor
Thanks Safrout... :)
Anyone else an opinion???
I read the sticky and it doesn't seem to give the Danger dens such a good "rating".
Storm is too much (plus I don't hink the pump can handle) and the Swifties 600x impossible to find. Danger Den seem to be okay but for price and reading stickies seems that one can do better.
I have the Swiftech h20-120 kit coming and the Apogee will probably stay in New box.
I have a Qpack with an ATX board
Swiftech MCP350 pump
For 775 socket
why in d 1st page..is Apogee so bad compare to others??
im totally new to the water cooling relam and i've been doing some reading on this.
1. kits can be a pain when wanting to upgrade?
2. im looking for the best performance, period. what should i be looking for in pumps, rads, CPU blocks, and GPU blocks (im running SLi so thats an issue with space between the #1 and #2 card)
http://www.petrastechshop.com/wacoki.html
highly recommended WC parts by the people reading this forums
also if you need upgrade, they'll probably have it too...
I am currently using a Koolance case for watercooling and we all know they have low flow pumps. However I wanted to maximize my cooling ability and I wanted to know if there is any other blocks besides the Swiftech STORM that will work better with my low flow setup?
I am currently using a Swiftech STORM block, but is it worth it to switch?
woo.. i dont think that your pump is good enough for the storm.. youre not really maximizing the storm's capability..Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottFern
if you like you can ditch koolance's pump for another stronger pump. you can keep your radiator and fan with koolance's fan regulator.
Perhaps something like apogee or the such for low flow? Like the above said. Sell the kit and spend that money to get something actually worth while. No point in wasteing your money over a lost cause..
why not use ddc+ pump...
I guess I forgot to mention this. I have a Koolance watercooling case. It's all completely built in and I can't get new parts unless I get a completely new setup.
I need a better waterblock and thats the only thing I am considering. I need something 3/8" preferably.
storm or apogee blocks with 3/8 fittings?
nevermind, I just ordered a MCW6000 with Socket 775 adapter.
so BIX not perform well in fan with CFM is lower than 110 :(Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer
correct, a BIP will outperfrom a BIX with low CFM fansQuote:
Originally Posted by dimasdw
BIX with low cfm fans needs a push/pull config and that just to be on par (or even a bit worse) with a BIP with push only.
@ MaxxxRacer
I am currently building up a water kit for the system below.
The parts I have chosen are:
DangerDen D5 Pump
DangerDen BIP2 two pass RAD
Tubing to suit - all compontes are 1/2
I will not have a chip set block in my loop. And I highly doubt I will add a GPU block either.
I am currently looking for a CPU block and are in the process of reading through review ect. One thing that strikes me is you not recommending the Apogee.
Under the review found here, they did a comparison between the Apogee and the storm, and found no real differance in end result temps.
http://www.systemcooling.com/images/...ee/image32.gif
Gathering parts down in New Zealand is quite a task, especially more exotic ones. The Apogee is readly avaliable, along with the DD TDX/RBX - the Storm how ever is not. Is there that much differance between the two that would warrent the price jump (potentially twice the cost of an Apogee - if i could find one) for the Storm over the Apogee?
Awaiting your comments.
Maxxx is very busy right now. Please make a new thread if you want to discuss something like that.
Thanks.
What a rad box for ??
to connect your rad to your computer
to hang the rad from the back of the case. just search a bit, look in the pic thread....
like hanging your rad at the back of your case
from an 80mm - 120mm fan hole, attach radbox, attach rad...
or make some standoffs from long pcs of screws and some copper tubing
making sure that your screws will not pierce rad chambers!!...
why does the guide not include the Alphacool Nexxxos XP CPU waterblock? i have one of these and they perform very well. review:
http://www.procooling.com/index.php?...&disp=132&pg=1
Cause maxxx is too busy right now... ;)
does anyone know if the
Low Profile Acetal MAZE4 fits (along with the GPU) in two slots?
I have a x1900xtx that i gave up on finding a non crap aftermarket aircooler for it(AC makes a nice one for HIS but does'nt sell it aftermarket)
thanks
Yes it fits.
I didnt include the Nexxos because it is essentialy a higher restriction, lower performane MP-05 (noting that hte MP-05 takes alot of its design from the nexxos XP) and for US residents the XP costs more, has lower availability and has less customer support (the manufacture resides in germany).
BUT with all of that said, if you are in the EU and dont have access to the storm or mp-05, then its an execellent block.
and as I say in my sig, please send me a PM and I will respond as quickly as I can.
Anyway, can someone get me the US pricing on the Nexxos XP. PM me with the info please. Once I get that I will upate the cpu block guide.
U're right maxxx as for Nexxxos XP rev1. Nexxxos XP rev2 is less restrictive and about the same performance with MP-01 (with MP-01's advantage in higher head pumps or less restrictive loops).
I haven't tested both blocks to have a proof of this, but according to Radical (who used both) this is the situation, more or less.
in europe (where i am) the nexxxos is the only decent block available directly. thats why i mentioned it. id prefer to use my original whitewater block but i cant find 775 mounting hardware anywhere ...annoying
US residence can order the nexxxos from the alphacool website. they ship worldwide if u have paypal.