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Hmmm, OBR is now saying, that the HD6800 line-up is the successor to HD58x0 cards. But if I'm reading it right, he's hinting, that the rename is in fact coming.
We should know everything in two days, because apparently there's going to be a techbrief in the US.
This might be AMD's best job confusing everyone yet
Anywho, regarding the clocks and all that... remember, Juniper x2 is literally supposed to be Cypress, yet Juniper x2 in CF often beat Cypress handily, despite having to deal with CF... many say that Cypress had architecture issues/inefficiencies, so fixing those alone should net quite an improvement
edit: and with all the secrecy, it makes me wonder what AMD has up their sleeves.... its known that this is a relatively new architecture, the biggest chance since R600 in fact... less than a week to go and people aren't even sure whats up. This should be exciting
Are you sure its so new? From what I have read its just a dieshrink with more shaders etc that normally follows such a thing. HD5xxx was new, then when we get HD7xxx its a new architecture on now tested half node so you dont get both new tech and die shrink at the same time (Which tends to cause too many problems)Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
Eh? HD6k is on same node as HD5k.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mech0z
You went too easy on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanical Man
6k series is still on 40nm ...
That is a interesting thought of a higher part coming after a "dual gpu top dog"
I plan on upgrading to the newest single GPU card when they come out (if the price/performance isn't out of this world.
Cayman XT was my first thought but you think something better than that could be coming?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
The specs and performace leak all seemed believable to me, and that would mean it certainly isn't a proper successor to 5800-series at least in performance. Of course given the suggested 250/200€ prices and 256-bit bus it would be kinda beefy for a 6700-series.
Good thing it'll all be clear in a few days hopefully.
All the "card name neysayers" should at leased take this into consideration. Posted by Dahbob over at guru3d................
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahbob
And? Almost nobody knows that. On the other hand, almost everyone knows, that HD 4870 is the successor to HD 3870 and HD 5870... etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagleclaw
Anyway, if OBR is right, you can forget about this whole discussion.
So would it be correct to say that AMD is trying to sell 5870 & 5850 performance at a lower price while at the same time maybe increasing their profits & with the bigger single chip take back single fastest gpu title as well and sell that at a premium ? Maybe they wont make more money per card but with the lower prices and great VFM they look to get a bigger share of the market with the cheaper cards.
I might have simplified it too much but that seems like a great move from AMD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zloyd
it might look like it .. but no official news on those parts have been released yet ....
a couple more days till we find out what's real or not
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagleclaw
It's aslo been posted in this thread. Several times.
If it's true that 6870 is the true successor of the 5870 then that may mean that there are 2 versions of the 6870. One for the desktop the other for mobile. Just like Juniper! You have a 5770 for the desktop and a 5770 called a 5870 for mobile. But who knows with all the confusion surrounding this.
i like the confusion
however i would also like to know when they will give us the news. isnt that like really, really soon?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
yeah .. this week end iirc ... the 18th amd has an anual conference or something
More news:
All in all, it looks like AMD is going to cash on the problems NV had this generation, release "slightly" faster cards with bigger margins and keep the big guns for the year ahead.Quote:
It's a successor, but AMD puts HD 6850 against GTX 460 1GB, HD 6870 is one level above. It's not a performance chart, but a price chart, I guess?
The Vantage numbers are real apparently, but it looks better in games.
They will be faster, but with less units.
The clocks we've seen so far are wrong.
so all the rumors about number of shaders and clockspeed wrong???? .... nice to know ...
x8xx series with only one CF tab?
I don't think so
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Deye
That is in fact a HD6850 board with the Barts Pro core, and the board has one Crossfire goldfinger. The Cayman boards have two crossfire goldfingers for 3x and 4x crossfire configurations.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDDeathstar
Calling the Juniper successor (Barts) boards "HD68xx" is an obvious attempt at positioning your new product line-up for better margins (a page taken out of NV's playbook). People will think, "Hey, this is a 6850, so it must be an upgrade to my 5850." (Even though that may or may not be the case.) It's a similar naming convention to what took place with G92 and 8800gtx -> 9800gtx.
Personally, i think it sucks. But what can you do. The real special sauce is the Cypress successor (Cayman XT) board (HD6970). And the SOY SAUCE, if you will, is the Dual Cayman XT board "Antilles" (HD6990) that is slotted for around the end of the year.
Don't be fooled by marketing names when it comes to the HD6870.
It makes me wonder though. If Barts is the replacement for the 5770, and Cayman XT is going to have a big 30-40% performance boost on what's ~5870 performance today.... just imagine what Antilles can do :shocked:Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredpace
antilles will have to deal with low clocks to maintain 300w TDP...Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
Clocks which you could then easily bump back up just like the 5970.Quote:
Originally Posted by -Sweeper_
+ 1Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredpace
Holy man. Someone finally see what I see. Rather than some crazy shifting strategy that benefits the consumer.
+2 :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
How true is this. I hope this turns out to be false.Quote:
Originally Posted by ripken204
http://www.techpowerup.com/132459/AM...00-Series.html
AMD Rebranding HD 5770 and HD 5750 to HD 6700 Series
Hard to say as they have allready post this on the 3 sept 2010 ( same site ).
No, it isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredpace
I think I covered this on a previous post in this thread, like the above post says...
Nvidia did RENAME (grabbed an already released part and give it a different name)
AMD is simply naming.
TWO different verbs.... two different actions.....
I can't wait for all the "well I had a 5870 and bought a 6870 and it wasn't faster" posts after this is all said and done.
The way some of you are talking I would think by the end of the year there should be 5-10 new threads started a day about it :rolleyes:
threads under the name of "my 6870 is crap because unlike any informed buyer I just went and bought a gpu based on model name alone"Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagleclaw
Seriously I will eat crow if these type of threads pop up, though I doubt it will happen. Money is tight and not everyone buys by a number. The people who do well they would make the wrong purchase anyway so it's a non issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroikenshi
I think they will at least wonder why their choice of purchase costs 30% less than the previous model. its going to be an “omg awesome deal this shop doesnt know what its selling!” followed by an “oh what the? i dont think this is what i wanted. is this really the fastest model?”
eventually even the uninformed buyer will come to terms with the name change as he will at least enjoy a moment of satisfaction for having a top bin product for such a bargain.
these issues/threads will definitely appear.
unless you are people like us who actually pay attention to hardware news, there is really not a way to know.
sure reviews may show the truth in performance, but when things have been a certain way for quite some time, people become accustomed to that. anyone buying a 4870 or 5870 knew that what they were getting was one of ATI's high end cards.
unless ATI makes an effort to inform people about this (which i am almost positive they will not) then the majority of people will have no idea.
Seriously, if somebody is foolish enough to expect a (i believe) US$ 229 card of NEW GENERATION mArch in the SAME PROCESS NODE having better performance compared to a US$ 399 or more card that was bought a year earlier, He/She totally DESERVES the fate he encounters. :down:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagleclaw
HD 5870 was an anomaly, the chip size is closer to an enthusiast level chip of yesterday such as R580 than a sweetspot chip like RV770, or even worse, the diminutive RV670. If any, this is a fault by AMD not naming RV870 as HD 5970 earlier, then calling Hemlock a HD 5970X2, but perhaps they had expected a better GTX 480 performance as competitor than what was happening later on, to justify RV870 as a sweetspot chip.
IMO, anyone buying a graphics card with the intention of installing it themselves should be tech savvy enough not to just base their purchase on model numbers.
I don't believe so many people on XS can be confused about the naming scheme! You guys must've been in a whole world of insanity when Nvidia moved from 9xxxGTX to GTX2x0? :shrug:
Lol ;) They were not, as it was their god that renamed. Not AMD the falsegod that just names.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontl1ne
I already said this. Not too many people will upgrade from a 5870 to a 6870. I don't think very many people upgraded from 8800gt to 9800gt either. People don't buy every generation, its too expensive. The people who are hardcore enough to upgrade every generation are likely a hardware enthusiast that knows better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontl1ne
What I can see happening alot is people upgrading from a 4870 to a 6870 and being quite disappointed in performance, none of these people know a 6970 big chip is the real successor to their card because there never has been a single chip 6970. And if the bench marks are correct, they are looking at a 50-60% performance increase from a 2 generation wait, which is honestly really crappy. If I sold my card for 60 dollars(a 4870) and spent 215 dollars(taxes, shipping, 250-260msrP), I would feel I should have kept my old card or got something better. I think to really get use out of eyefinity, you need something with atleast 5870 power so that 50-60% performance jump would be even more disappointing if I got an eyefinity setup..
At the rate both company are pumping out stuff, I would expect a 3x increase or 1.7 per generation or 2.89.
Pricing won't help a regular consumer make a wiser decision because they paid a similar amount for their 4870.
all I want to upgrade to is flagship 28nm
:D
followed swiftly by the horrendous feeling of being ripped off... "wait, this is the same as my 5870? this is going back to newegg..."Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitriman
i can only sit on the sideline and laugh as those who trashed nvidia for the same thing defend the practice now...
So what is going to be the likely replacement for my 5970? I'm not sure if I want another dual GPU or go back to one gpu cards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 570091D
nvidia = known fact
ati = rumors up until we know better ...
and that my dear teddy-bear-avatar like posting individual is the simple truth,
I can't wait to see when AMD employees and fanboys will break it down to us how this serves the betterment of mankind, like the 2 year long delay of Bulldozer or the hidden potential of the 2900Xt which will be unleashed by a driver later... I am still waiting for that actually. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by 570091D
I love when release day gets close... all the people with opinions/biases for a side come out
Why not wait for the numbers and see? A lot of people are hinting that the Vantage/3dMark scores dont tell real world performance
I really don't know where that is coming from, but you're mixing a released piece of hardware with TWO pieces of unreleased hardware... Bravo:clap::clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroimaho
If I'm not mistaken, you seem to be missing something here... So, you as an average customer, step into the hardware store with your $215 (or go online). What do you see there? Certainly not a HD5870 for that price. With some luck maybe a HD5850. And a HD6870. So purchase the HD6870, and guess what - you just got better bang for you buck, a higher efficiency and more features.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
Granted, the HD5870 will probably go a little bit lower in price, due to the new series. But to expect $300 performance from a $215 card is somewhat questionable. What about looking at it the way around? You could spend $300 on a HD5870, and be very disappointed when you find out that your neighbor that spent only $215 (on a HD6870) got nearly the same performance - along with better tessellation etc.
So, in other words, I believe most consumers don't want a certain card with a certain number, they just have a certain budget and go out to find a card that suits it. If AMD's pricing were to be way off here, it would be a ripoff indeed. But by the same sort of rumours that regard the name shift, AMD's pricing seems perfectly reasonable.
The 215 pricing is after selling your card. I am thinking Barts xt is going to be around 259 or higher as AMD as of late has been very expensive relative to the size of the chips they are selling.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohnoitseddy
Expecting to get better performance should be natural. The gtx 470 is much larger than a 5870 and performs about the same at this point and is 279 dollars. With a new architecture and smaller size, I could see AMD making really good improvement, something smaller than the 5870 and performing better. The point of new technology in videocards, is you get better performance for the price as technology improves. It is perfectly believable that AMD can get 5870 performance for the price of a 5850 as time moves forward. Look at the price difference and performance of cards like the 2900xt tp 4870. Have the cost and twice the performance. Or the 3870x2 to 4870. Both of these were the top tier from the generation before or two generations ago and they simply get beat by a card at a much cheaper price point.
If AMD is making a smaller chip, the lower price should be a given.
However if we are getting 5850 performance again at the same 259 dollar price point(maybe 5 percent better), I don't think we are getting a good deal as AMD is benefiting more than us.
Also modifying your example. What if you see two cards, the 5850 for 170 dollars on clearance and the 6870 for 259 what is the consumer going to buy? Both are the same speed in most games and the 5850 is a better deal. However normally the 6870 would be twice as fast as the 5850 because it is a generation ahead and is the top tier for single GPU chips, so you buy it thinking it is worth the extra cost. However in this case with the new naming your not getting closed to that. AMD just made an extra 90 bucks off you for a card that performs the same and cost less for them to produce.
If the vantage numbers are true. Your getting something much closer to 5850 performance than 5870(which partners seem to be suggesting) and if your paying 259, I don't think your getting that great a deal because that speed and price could have been received last generation.
Dude you are analyzing WAY too deep into this right now, all based on some Vantage/3dM scores with no CPU reference for each set of scoresQuote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
First, you have no idea what size Barts is going to be... it's been hinted that it's roughly 1/3 the size of the GTX 470, so it can be priced below what a 5850/5870 was at release...
More than a few people have said the 68xx is a worthy successor to the 58xx's, so wait and see IMO. If they really improved DX11 tess/other performance, then I bet the performance delta increases in actual game benchmarks, and not 3dMark06/Vantage which won't see those changes put to use at all since those are very set on the DX9/10 feature set
Obviously, must be fun to reply to posts which you can't comprehend. The 5970 beats the 8800gtx was truly golden.:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroikenshi
My post was about the behavior of the AMD fanbase, that's what connects the two unreleased and the released product. How they defend the 6K without anything to back it up is the same how they claimed that a magic driver will turn on the dormant transistors of the 2900Xt and it becomes a beast, which is yet to happen. :D
Same for bulldozer if NV or Intel delays something they get ripped a new one, AMD delays their nextgen cpu for two years they get a pass even though they are stuck in the sub 200$ market.
So if AMD changes the naming will be truly entertaining to see what they come up with this time. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroimaho
hold on a minute.... nvidia did delay for a while and they didnt wanted to tell the truth and say that fermi was a broken gpu .... FACT
R600 was overhyped ...... FACT
people taking rumors like its cold hard facts ..... PRICELESS ....
and btw bulldozer isnt out yet so we will keep talk about that for another thread shall we ;)
and money is money ... whatever market it is ... its money ....
yeah I admit that post of mine was golden, I can't believe that you actually remember such garbage, even when I myself admitted how wrong I was. you either got a phenomenal memory for useless info, or you're out to throw low blows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroimaho
Either way, I dunno how being stuck in the sub $200 market, bulldozer, Nvidia and intel fall together in the same sentence... I actually don't see anywhere near as much fanboi-love as you would in other forums.
As if AMD told us Brisbane was a broken CPU, with lower clocks and half the cache of it's precedessor, and let's not even mention the mighty Phenom 1. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
and it sucked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
That's the point, it should have been out last summer. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
6870 & 6850 launching on October 22
http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/ite...aunch-oct-22nm
so your point is that you grab and quote whatever you want to make your point, now that's impressive.... me likey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroimaho
and why would you need to quote me back acknowledging what i told earlier while adding some small bits about phenom 1 and bulldozer again to prove an off topic point for no apparent reason ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroikenshi
it sounds a bit troll'ish from his part ... but i liked his off topic rambling a bit LOL
quoted from fudzilla's article ... lets see if its credible about the 6890 part ....
Quote:
Don’t worry though, Cayman is still supposed to launch this year most likely with the HD 6890 if not 6970 / 6950 brands. We still don’t know these brands but this is something that would not surprise.
It occured to me as well that vantage performance might not be the right way to judge the new card , if its got good improvement in DX11 then sweet if not its gonna be a bummer ..... well we should know pretty soon what is what.
..... hey Snom@an.... I can sense a very strong troll energy coming in this youth... with the proper training he could become the next terrance123...
And still, they didn't do the same thing. You can not like the new naming scheme, I don't, but calling it the same thing is just fanboy boohoo.Quote:
Originally Posted by 570091D
Renaming or not, the argument is still valid. You cant deny that if the rumours are true, 6800 ~= 5800. It's the whole 8800GT->9800GT all over again, minus the fact that 8800GT->9800GT is essentialy the same chip while 5800->6800 is not.
Well, it seems like everyone agrees that it sucks if 6800 ~= 5800, just that it's not a rename, which has been the point of the argument (said over and over again, you can't rename something that hasn't been named). Funny how we could argue over this. ;)
Great post! :up:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontl1ne
You enter a shop or a site, there's 5 gpu's: HD 6850-6870- 6950-6970-6990..Quote:
Originally Posted by ripken204
the 6870 is 250-300 dollars the 6970 is 400-450 dollars (don't know the price yet it's just for the example ).... what will you think first ? the 6870 is the high end model ? so what is the 69xx cards ? and if you don't know it: what will you ask to the vendor ( yes this is in general what are doing peoples who have no clue about hardware )
It's not like the 6870 will be the only one model ....
Someone who want a high performance cards, go in shop with 500$ and look for the best, and ask the top model ... Someone who don't want put so much money in a GPU, look for low model and this is what he will get.
It's actually more like 8800GTX -> 9800GTX. A name that implies a generational leap, but is only about as fast (sometimes faster sometimes slower depending on what you throw at it) as the previous chip while being smaller and cooler.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindbox
Jesus how can you compare a new product line-up with re-branding of available products?Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird
AMD has probably reasons for moving the numbers up (e.g. Fusion CPU + GPU Products) and more theorycrafting is starting to look just sad. :shakes:
Not really because when they did that nothing new came out, the name implies one thing sure but it's not the same strategy behind it at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird
I think very few people will be confused unless they somehow only see the 6870/6850 (which they might if the 69*0 is delayed). Otherwise I think most people will see that the 6870 is not near the cutting edge of AMD's product line up, as the fourth/fifth fastest cards I think it won't take too long for people to get their heads around it.
Also your average PC gamer isn't that stupid, they are way beyond the "Oh wow my new GPU has 1GB of ram and it only cost me $50!" stage if they are looking at the 6850+ area. Sure they may not be counting ROP's but they are counting Shaders.
What are you talking about? 8800GTX -> 9800GTX was a new product. Only instead of improving performance the product became smaller and more efficient.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadov
so a 4770 should have been called a 5x70 instead?
people dont buy much LP records today, nor soon CD, and people dont buy a lot of floppy drives either, why aint people concern with that?
I mean they changed a whole indsutry in several areas, floppy like the movie wargames is a classic, and should stay the same forever.
a change to the lineup with the new series seems fully understandable by the marketing team.
Just shrinking components in a GPU with no feature or performance changes does not count.Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird
Some Xbox 360 have shrunken GPU/CPU components, they don't count that as a new product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by manicdan
lolwut ....
was a reply to:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
which was the post right above mineQuote:
What are you talking about? 8800GTX -> 9800GTX was a new product. Only instead of improving performance the product became smaller and more efficient.
:p: You're right! +1Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird
Quote:
Originally Posted by Final8ty
Okay, while we're at it, Radeon HD 2900 -> 3870
Hum hum.
2900 Dx10 - 3870 Dx10.1.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindbox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
ahh sorry
no, that definitely counts as a genuinely new product. also i would consider lower power consumption a feature, which is why the 5870 is favored over the 480 by a lot of enthusiasts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final8ty
the xbox is not really a valid counterexample either. it's a console.
power consumption is only considered in this case with new competing products when upgrading.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chumbucket843
People will not fork out to replace a card with another & the only difference is the power consumption.
I would like to see how often people would change a 480 for another 480 just because one used slightly less power.
I don't think anything you say or fact you provide is going to help here, they simply refuse to see the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final8ty
They do when it suits them.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMojoZ
NV just has to change the PCI-E plug on a gfx card from 6pin to 8pin for them to see it as a new product & its ok for a new name.
ATi change some core elements in the GPU & they say its the same product. :rolleyes:
i upgraded from a 2900 to a 4850 due to power consumption, but it literally was saving me 3-5$ a month, so after a year the 4850 was getting close to being free. graphics wise they were too close to be worthy of an upgrade. and im glad i did it too, cause i skipped over the 5000 series and that 1 year is turning into 2 now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final8ty
however, people who bought a 5870, and plan to buy a 6870 without any research, honestly probably would believe in the placebo effect, and just think its 2x as good. (and in some dx11 titles it actually might feel that way too, which is why i find this 50 page thread really funny since theres no legit benchmarks)
Your in the minority.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
But the fact is there are more change than just the power difference 2900 to a 4850.
The 2900 was simply bad & many would jump off at the first chance they could.
I'm not defending anyone's naming scheme here, I was just replying to the guy who said 5870 -> 6870 was like 8800gt - > 9800gt, telling him that it was actually morel ike 8800stx - > 9800gtx. Read twice, post once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
the last dozen pages is the same argument. i just want some damn benchmarks.Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird
And? Either way, it's technically wrong.. the 6870 will be a different piece of archetecture..!Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird
So you're not pissed at all that 6870 has about the same performance as 5870, as long as the generation increase is not due to a shrink? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Final8ty
For me, a generation increase means a performance increase, that's about it. Maybe power consumption reduction is acceptable as well. If power consumption is half of Cypress, I don't really mind if 6870 has the same perf as 5870. I did say a power reduction would warrant a generation increase but as far as I am concerned, I wouldn't upgrade from 5870 to 6870 just for less power.
I'm pretty disappointed actually. I have more ATi cards than nvidia. Hell, I prefer ATi before nvidia, if performance is comparable (GTX 460 is *just* everyone's cards these days though). The good thing is, none of the renaming etc matters to me, nor anyone here when it comes to buying it themselves. I do have to keep watch when I buy notebooks though, they're renamed infinite number of times (nvidia being a worse offender), and I tried a laptop with 8 CUDA cores.. ugh. Then a 32 cuda core one (hell, branded as 9600MGT)...good, but 4330 is better. meh, I should've stucked with ATi.
I'm just hoping for rumours to be rumours. Anyway, sticking to my trusty 4890.
Or maybe I'm just about to get used to seeing ATi's performance leaps they keep showing.
Today my GTX 280 started to refuse to work with 3D/performance mode anymore and would always give me a textured pattern screen of doom as soon as I launch any game (or ATITools, Furmark etc) even below stock clocks so currently on my backup gfx card 7900GTO (wish I hadn't stuffed the 9800GT I got back from a 8800GT RMA replacement into my parents comp :brick:). Buying a GTX 460 wouldn't be much of an upgrade at all and GTX 470 and GTX 480 are rather uninteresting to me and wouldn't either make sense buying a HD58xx card at prices STILL similar to its launch and so close to 68xx launch. Guess I just gotta hang in there for a while... better not be any serious delays... :s
I still have my 1Ghz 4890 that I bought for around 200 Euros. Didn't see any real incentive to upgrade yet. Really glad I skipped the 5000 series.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindbox
Haha, I know that feeling. Upgrading when you have a 4890/gtx275/gtx280 yet require extra cash for a >4890/gtx275/gtx280 performance is pretty sad :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD
Just hoping that the least the 6000 series can do is drive prices down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blindbox
Okay, and what part of 6870 != top dog don't you get? If you want a generational leap, compare the 6970 to the 5870.
The entire hoopla around this is that basically AMD named the 5870 incorrectly... if they had intended to keep the $200-300 range reserved for the x800's, then the 5870 should have been renamed the 5970 and the 5970 -> 5970X2, as it appears they are doing with the 6900's this round with Cayman and Antilles.
And, if the rumors are true, the 68xx's are ~200mm^2 and higher perf/mm^2 and higher perf/watt than the 5850/5870, so yes, you're talking about a chip more like Juniper size doing what Cypress did.
Either way, I find it funny people are getting peeved about the card's performance based on:
a) Leaked Vantage/3dMark numbers, which have little bearing on real world gaming (and to boot, the scores weren't referenced with the same CPU/computer set up)
and
b) Projected prices, which we don't know for certain yet, which will be the ultimate factor
After all, who would be the people caring if a 5850/5870 replacement came in at $179/229 for instance? In that example, the people complaining would really only be fanbois trying to stir the pot
ATM I would be very happy with a HD6870 even if in my own guess it'll perform just slightly better than HD5850, it's the price of it ($250 TOPS or it wouldn't make sense) that makes it worth it and from a performance POV it'd still be a noteworthy improvement. It'll prolly allow some decent OCing too. A Cayman would look more logical change from a GTX 280 yes but I didn't spend a fortune on this GTX 280 anyway, it was bought 2nd hand for like 220 EUR. I think. :p: It's prolly the last time I buy an EVGA tho, also had an EVGA GTX 260 SP216 OC (again bought 2nd hand) that got the same sympton as this GTX 280 and clocks just got more and more unstable until stock clocks weren't even stable anymore and only after maybe 10~11 months or so, ~15 months for the GTX 280.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindbox
1) nope not pissed at all, die shrink alone is relevant if it does not offer anything different/new.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindbox
2) Performance or new features counts as a new gen, because not everyone needs more performance but may want new features.
What if shrinking was never an option that would not mean that there could never have new generations with more efficient architecture & features.
Too many people are hangup on the shrinking & that it alone defines new gen without any changes.
it doesn't surprise me they said the next generation would be a hybrid design of current and new architecturesQuote:
Originally Posted by blindbox
ATI cards are more versatility since all of them can do Crossfire X up to 4 card.
SLI only go's down to 450 gts and tri sli only starts at 465 gtx on up and 4 way SLI is for only two cards 470 gtx and 480 gtx
I've been looking over Nvida tesselstion and they get 99.6 % scaling for each tessellation unit in the SIMD arrry would should be next to impossible 99.6% for each one.
it's suspicious Scaling performance for that many units.
While and ATI unit is one gpu adding another is 1.9 times faster and another after that varies, but in heavy Tessellation it's prefect :shrug: (2 5850 vs 3 5770)
3870 - 4870 wasn't a shrink ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Final8ty
slight redesign and bump in size.
this looks similar.
As you said slight redesign, better AA handling ect....Quote:
Originally Posted by demonkevy666
Hey, thinking alike are we mate ? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
Not trying to make excuses, should the rumored resegmenting indeed happen, ATi will stirr the pot on their own, but considering the competitive landscape, i think it's too naive expecting ATi to downgrade a sweetspot, performance segment chip such as Bart into mainstream segment market as 67xx cards, with its own lower price basket & consumer expectation.
Unlike nVidia who can absorb thinner profit even slight loss in selling consumer graphic cards with below margin price strategy (367 mm^2 GF 104 chip sold as a US$ 160 mainstream card, LOL), so they can maintain the ever important marketshare, with the super profitable professional market control as counterweight in book keeping, ATi HAS to make a very profitable consumer chip, so that if the performance warrants the price, they can optimise the profit while still competitive enough to gain marketshare, though not in predatory mode.
ATi don't want a zero sum game with nVidia getting crazy in pricing, so expecting a Juniper price introductory level for Bart who matches las gen highend chip performance & grows in size+complexity, is very, very NAIVE in my book. :rolleyes:
Allow me to introduce us all to the power of a name. If the successor to the 5770 is called the 6770, then it's a whole new architecture and everything is fine. BUT, if the new card is called the 6870, then it's a rebrand, and AMD is doing exactly the same thing as Nvidia did countless times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoulz
Now remember folks, this all happens because of the name of the box. The chip AMD is introducing is the same.
LOLl a rebrand is a new name without architectural changes .... nvidia didnt change anything so that's why we are blasting them .. and anyway we dont know the whole story about the 6k series .. so why dont we all let this thread die until its 100% official ....
No it's not. I hope you're trolling, cause this is seriously logic failQuote:
Originally Posted by ToxAvenger
Why will you upgrade from 5870 to 6870 ? Offcourse it will be a downgrade ......if you want upgrade from the 5870, you will choose the 6950-6970 or even the 6990 .... It was same for 4870-4890 owners... outside DX11 they was no interest to buy a 5770 for replace the 4870 ... in general the new lower cards ( who is the 6850-6870 ) are rarely faster of the Top cards of the old series, but in general equal them..Quote:
Originally Posted by blindbox
Now upgrading from 4890 or 5770 for 6870 = will be a good choice. specially if the price is cheap. Having a gpu who perform between a 5850 and a 5870 for a price who should be around the 5770 prices is not a bad move.
Lol you guys fed a 50 page thread with conclusions based solely on misinformation ATi themselves might be leaking. :shrug:
I will not make any conclusion except I don't like the way they named their series. We were all kind of used to *870 being higher mainstream
thing to get. Reintroducing Pro/XT/whatever schemes is not necessary nor welcome imho.
So, based on these rumors we have atm, if you skipped 5870, but you want it's successor, that would be 6890?
Pardon me, I suppose this was answered many times, but I don't have the time nor will to go through 50 pages of speculations :D ;)
EDIT: There I go, answered ;)
You mean 6970 right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Erklat