First 9600GT review

Tweaktown have put a Galaxy 9600GT against a 8800GT & a 3870 and it looks like it does well.

TweakTown 9600GT review

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Final Thoughts
The 9600GT doesn’t disappoint at all. Performance is better than you would expect out of a card that carries the x600GT naming scheme, and if pricing is going to be as competitive as we’ve heard then this could be the next gen card to own. It could be a really good chance for 7900 users to finally jump to a cheap DX10 card that is actually capable of running DX10 games at a playable frame rate.

Pricing should come under the HD 3870 and well under the 8800GT. While the card tends to perform on par with the HD 3870, sometimes better and sometimes slightly worse, with the great success NVIDIA has been having over the past few years people simply feel more comfortable using an NVIDIA card instead of an ATI based one. NVIDIA also tend to partner up with more game companies it seems, meaning that ultimately newer games are made for NVIDIA and able to perform better on their cards.

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wow better than the 3870.
no sm4.1 on the 9 series, thats a surprise.
if it overclocks well, it might outperform an 8800gt

Uses almost as much power as a 8800gt 512mb.
Impressive, on par with or beats the 3870 in a lot of areas.
If this comes out in the $150-200 range then it will sell like hotcakes...

those 64 stream processors are testifying in congress next week. they've been accused of steroid use. :D

:eek: I might have to buy one of these simply to bench/beat up.

wow, as soon as stock prices are realised on this card I'll free upgrade from a 3850

this will be my 4th free card ;)

Wow, What and impressive card, it even beats the 8800GT in some games, and 12k 3d'06 for a Mid-Range card ?? I wonder how much more powerful the 9800GTX will be :eek:.?

Looks it's just like with the 7 and 8 series, 7900 is a bit better then the 8600GT/GTS.
And now it's 8800GT a bit better then 9600GT :)

how does it OC? the 3870s have head room, does this?

it says right in the conclusion that is a factory OCed card, meaning it is not neccesarly better than 3870

on page 18 it says in idle it makes more noise then under load.

Fan control not working properly?

9600GT~HD3870 without AA+AF .

wow, if this card is already competing well against last years highend, i wonder how much of a whooping the 9800gtx is gonna dish out

Using old Cat 7.1 + using 9600GT OC + using HD 3870/8800GT non-OC.
Don´t suport DX_10.1 is just Lame.

Sis suport DX_10.1 ....

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Originally Posted by v_rr

Using old Cat 7.1 + using 9600GT OC + using HD 3870/8800GT non-OC.
Don´t suport DX_10.1 is just Lame.

Sis suport DX_10.1 ....

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Yeah, no support for DX10.1 is just plain unacceptable! :mad:


All those games that use it right now are being wasted!

oh wait........ :p: :ROTF:


Seems like a really good card, I hope it's priced well. nvidia will kill its selling point if they charge loads for it.

Does anyone know the MSRP for these things?

I think completely proves a major reason for the 8800gt being a stronger game performer than the 3870 is massively due to the way the games were coded, I mean think about it. In theory, the 8800gt should be performing around 40% better than the 9600gt due to shader counts etc, but 9600gt is right on the 8800gt's tail. Of course the g94 die may be designed to perform more efficiently, but I'm pretty sure it's mainly due to game coding

Price it at $140 and it'll sell like crazy. Price it at $180 and people will probably buy a 3850 or cheap 8800GT instead. It'll be tricky but this card could bring back the x600GT range from the 6600GT(which I thought was a fun card).

Wow. Now i really want to see how a 9800gtx with 128 shaders fairs.

What an great card. I never expected this kind of performance. Looking at its specs I thought it would lie between 8600GTS and 8800GT, never so close to 8800GT.

Despite being named as an 9 series card, is it based on "g80 arch" ?

On a side note, power consumption doesnt make sense to me, with its specs it should be quite a bit lower than the 8800GT, and not almost match it. Lets wait for more reviews.

Depending on its price it could steal the HD38xx market.

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Originally Posted by aznsniper911

Does anyone know the MSRP for these things?

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$169-189. You didn't hear it from me.

//Andreas

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Originally Posted by AliG

I think completely proves a major reason for the 8800gt being a stronger game performer than the 3870 is massively due to the way the games were coded, I mean think about it. In theory, the 8800gt should be performing around 40% better than the 9600gt due to shader counts etc, but 9600gt is right on the 8800gt's tail. Of course the g94 die may be designed to perform more efficiently, but I'm pretty sure it's mainly due to game coding

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Despite have 40% less shaders it doesn´t have one 40% smaller die.
In fact 9600GT die size is very big for it´s segment. ATI HD 3800 continue to have a lot small core, witch means a less expensive chip to manufacter.

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Originally Posted by v_rr

Using old Cat 7.1 + using 9600GT OC + using HD 3870/8800GT non-OC.
Don´t suport DX_10.1 is just Lame.

Sis suport DX_10.1 ....

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Did you guys also notice how the author of the article stresses how "most people" are more comfortable with nvidia hardware these days?
The article seems somewhat biased, what do you all think?

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Originally Posted by v_rr

Using old Cat 7.1 + using 9600GT OC + using HD 3870/8800GT non-OC.
Don´t suport DX_10.1 is just Lame.

Sis suport DX_10.1 ....

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Originally Posted by v_rr

Despite have 40% less shaders it doesn´t have one 40% smaller die.
In fact 9600GT die size is very big for it´s segment. ATI HD 3800 continue to have a lot small core, witch means a less expensive chip to manufacter.

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And the threadcrapping begins...

DX10.1 & SM4.1 are right now nothing but words on paper & PR speak. Save that lame duck of an excuse for when there's even a single DX10.1 game on the market.

nVidia managed to double the performance of the 8600GTS with the 9600GT without increasing the price which in anyones book is a good thing.

For the $150-200 the stock to OC cards will cost it's proving to be more than a match for the 38x0's especially when they can expose AMD's poor AA performance. nVidia's performance is causing AMD to lower prices so they can compete which is not a good thing for AMD.

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Originally Posted by Jakko

Did you guys also notice how the author of the article stresses how "most people" are more comfortable with nvidia hardware these days?
The article seems somewhat biased, what do you all think?

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I think that's a fair assessment, considering AMD/ATI's publicity this year.

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Originally Posted by DeathReborn

And the threadcrapping begins...

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Cmon, did you really expect v_rr to say something DECENT about nVidia? :ROTF:

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Originally Posted by DeathReborn

DX10.1 & SM4.1 are right now nothing but words on paper & PR speak. Save that lame duck of an excuse for when there's even a single DX10.1 game on the market.

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No one here is discussing DX_10.1 or not.
Just a fact, Sis and ATI cards suport it while Nvidia not. Whats the problem about it?

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Originally Posted by DeathReborn

For the $150-200 the stock to OC cards will cost it's proving to be more than a match for the 38x0's especially when they can expose AMD's poor AA performance. nVidia's performance is causing AMD to lower prices so they can compete which is not a good thing for AMD.

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Again ATI has process manufacter advantage. Margins are no problem for ATI and 9600GT don´t change things because is stil a bigger die.
To prove that:

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Originally Posted by Nvidia Shares Swoon On Margin Worries

the focus has shifted instead to lower-than-expected gross margin in the fourth quarter - at 45.7%, gross margins were down about 50 basis points sequentially, due to higher production costs for the GeForce 8800 line of graphics chips.

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http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderd...d=yahoobarrons

Despite god Nvidia Q4, this and other factors are bringing shares down.
Nvidia is sufering the same that AMD CPUs are sufering from Intel witch is lower margins to mantain their product competitive because the competitor has manufacter advantage (Phenon 65nm - Intel 45nm).

This case is ATI HD 3xxx 55nm - NV 8xxx and 9xxx 65nm. In Q4 Nvidia had to drop margins. Q1 2008 should be equal to Q4 2007 and Q2 2008 depends on Nvidia 9xxx and ATI RV7xx.
RS780 IGP 55nm will be very very important to ATI to go up in market share and have the maximum margins in this low-end sector.

Nice DX10 benchmark with Half Life there.... /end sarcasm.

And I can tell you from my own experience with the Half Life 2 benchmark that I have never EVER seen the HD3870 lagging that far behind the 8800GT.

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Originally Posted by v_rr

No one here is discussing DX_10.1 or not.
Just a fact, Sis and ATI cards suport it while Nvidia not. Whats the problem about it?

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for me personally the problem is that i dont care one bit aslong as there are no dx10.1 games around. And tbh i doubt we will see any decent ones until Nvidia has products that use it. And even whent hey are around id love to see a comparison between it and dx10 that actualy shows any noticeble diffrence.

Further pls let Sis out of your comparison unless you rly expect people to use their products to play games. For SiS the usage of Dx10.1 is purely a marketing feature as DX10.1 is a thing for gaming and nobody will buy their product for gaming.

i dont think the lack of dx10.1 will affect sales. Still disappointed in nvidia for releasing a card at this point with no dx10.1 support. I mean, amd did it months ago...

Just to clarify - all you guys mentioning SIS and DX10.1 have on mind S3 righit? ;)

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Originally Posted by v_rr

No one here is discussing DX_10.1 or not.
Just a fact, Sis and ATI cards suport it while Nvidia not. Whats the problem about it?



Again ATI has process manufacter advantage. Margins are no problem for ATI and 9600GT don´t change things because is stil a bigger die.
To prove that:

http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderd...d=yahoobarrons

Despite god Nvidia Q4, this and other factors are bringing shares down.
Nvidia is sufering the same that AMD CPUs are sufering from Intel witch is lower margins to mantain their product competitive because the competitor has manufacter advantage (Phenon 65nm - Intel 45nm).

This case is ATI HD 3xxx 55nm - NV 8xxx and 9xxx 65nm. In Q4 Nvidia had to drop margins. Q1 2008 should be equal to Q4 2007 and Q2 2008 depends on Nvidia 9xxx and ATI RV7xx.
RS780 IGP 55nm will be very very important to ATI to go up in market share and have the maximum margins in this low-end sector.

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You were the first person in the thread to say the words DX 10.1, one person mentioned SM 4.1 being missing as a surprise but not DX 10.1. It's a matter of interpretation but since you consistently place DX 10.1 & SM 4.1 as 2 seperate words they are for your purposes, seperate.

As Lightman pointed out, it is S3 not SiS.

Those financials do not take into account GeForce 9 sales so are for this point, worthless.

55nm & DX 10.1/SM 4.1 are little more than marketing tools for AMD right now. Power Consumption for the 3650 is marginally less than the 2600XT but not as good as you'd expect with 65nm > 55nm.

Lets not forget, this is XtremeSystems and Performance is what the people here expect, performance that for those that can't afford a 3870X2 or a 8800GTS/GTX/Ultra they can find in the 9600GT, especially when gaming with AA on.

Carp on all you like, you just keep coming across as a desperate ATi fanboy who believes all the hype & tries to derail any thread which might contain any form of positives for nVidia.

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Originally Posted by Lightman

Just to clarify - all you guys mentioning SIS and DX10.1 have on mind S3 righit? ;)

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Nice spot, even I missed that one.

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Originally Posted by DeathReborn

You were the first person in the thread to say the words DX 10.1, one person mentioned SM 4.1 being missing as a surprise but not DX 10.1. It's a matter of interpretation but since you consistently place DX 10.1 & SM 4.1 as 2 seperate words they are for your purposes, seperate.

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What´s the problem of talking of it. Or you didn´t expected 9xxx suport it? :rolleyes:

If for you talking about DX_10.1 is stupid, i can tell you that ignoring it is equal or more stupid ;)

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Originally Posted by DeathReborn

Those financials do not take into account GeForce 9 sales so are for this point, worthless.

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Offcourse not. They where from Q4 2007, but you are just in the midle of Q1 2008 and there is no Geforce 9xxx in the market, also process manufacturing still 65nm in 9xxx. This delays will also hurt then this quarter.

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Originally Posted by DeathReborn

55nm & DX 10.1/SM 4.1 are little more than marketing tools for AMD right now. Power Consumption for the 3650 is marginally less than the 2600XT but not as good as you'd expect with 65nm > 55nm.

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Think what you want. For some people is important, for others aren´t, but in one think you are very wrong and that´s 55nm.
That will give ATI more margins and specially much impact in mobile sector.
In Q4 2007 ATI grow 8% in mobile, and by digitimes ATI will continue to grow throw the year to very big numbers.

For example Puma plataform have now more then 100+ OEM contracts. That means all AMD mobile laptops will include RS780 IGP with HD 3200/3300 in 55nm and OEM are very interested in that. In China RS780 is already pushing up AMD low-end CPU sales.

Nvidia will be strong in desktop despite ATI also have strong products now, but in mobile Nvidia will run into problem. They can take some discrete mobile, but centrino and Puma plataforms are closed and it closes doors to Nvidia IGPs, and that´s a very very very large market. Intel is leader in GPU mobile because of this.
The second probem is that even in discrete mobile Nvidia has 65nm chips, and ATI 55nm chips.

So all in all for mobile should be great year for ATI, and for desktop Nvidia should mantein good share.

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Originally Posted by DeathReborn

Lets not forget, this is XtremeSystems and Performance is what the people here expect, performance that for those that can't afford a 3870X2 or a 8800GTS/GTX/Ultra they can find in the 9600GT, especially when gaming with AA on.

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I don´t say the oposite....

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Originally Posted by DeathReborn

Carp on all you like, you just keep coming across as a desperate ATi fanboy who believes all the hype & tries to derail any thread which might contain any form of positives for nVidia.

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Ya right, I said a number of facts and everyone is a fanboy :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by v_rr

Offcourse not. They where from Q4 2007, but you are just in the midle of Q1 2008 and there is no Geforce 9xxx in the market, also process manufacturing still 65nm in 9xxx. This delays will also hurt then this quarter.

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why would the delay of the 9 series hurt Nvidia?
ofc it will slightly show in the sales figures but it isnt like they have no other GPUs for sale atm. And ATIS new lineup also stil isnt here but ofc we wont mention that.

Besides why do u keep going on about the manufacturing process of the GPUs?
GPU cost isnt only defined by the manufacturing process of the die.
There are several factors wich influence cost price of a GPu the process the GPU is made on is just 1 of them.
SO were are you getting that Nvidias profit margin on the geforce 9 series per GPU is lower then AMD/ATIs?


Further you mention that the Puma platform is closed so would only allow for ATI chipset and GPU.
Asfar as i know it is an open platform on the chipset and GPu side and everyone can deliver a chipset or GPu for it aslong as it has the OK from AMD.
Atm Nvidia chipsets and GPUs are also part of the Puma platform.
Unless ofcourse that you can back up that it is closed.

So saying 100+ OEM deals to the Puma platform doesnt mean 100+ OEM contracts for AMD CPU, chipset and GPU.

And why again is it a problem that in the mobile market Nvidia only has 65nm GPUs and AMD has 55nm GPUs?
Does a smaller die size per se mean alot loower heat output and power usage? NO.

Has anyone noticed that whenever the Radeon wins, they change the scale of the x-coordinate so their win is reduced, but in graphs like 3dmark06 they set the divisions to 500 so even if the 8800 GT wins, it seems like it's winning by a whole big margin?

What kind of failure of misrepresentation of data is this?

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Originally Posted by cegras

Has anyone noticed that whenever the Radeon wins, they change the scale of the x-coordinate so their win is reduced, but in graphs like 3dmark06 they set the divisions to 500 so even if the 8800 GT wins, it seems like it's winning by a whole big margin?

What kind of failure of misrepresentation of data is this?

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ya i also noticed that. But i myself nvr judge a product on just 1 review. that and i mostly check out the nrs instead of the size of the bar.


ps. the best misrepresentations are the ones on the grafix card boxes of the OC editions.
When they got 2 bars (1 oc and 1 non oc edition) and the OC edition bar is 10x bigger for 10% increase in score.

this review seems off. I'll wait for more before making up my mind.

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Originally Posted by Jakko

Did you guys also notice how the author of the article stresses how "most people" are more comfortable with nvidia hardware these days?
The article seems somewhat biased, what do you all think?

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+1 will wait for others

If I'm not mistaken, DX10.1 is an incremental feature superset to DX10, same with SM4.1. They aren't new APIs on their own, but they do add some new features to the existing API. Right? So, then, why are people so distraught that this card doesn't support DX10.1?

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Originally Posted by Omastar

If I'm not mistaken, DX10.1 is an incremental feature superset to DX10, same with SM4.1. They aren't new APIs on their own, but they do add some new features to the existing API. Right? So, then, why are people so distraught that this card doesn't support DX10.1?

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We're not, since there aren't even any DX10.1 games out at the moment. V_rr sure likes to harp on about it declaring ATI supremacy though. ;)

TweakTown has published Nvidia biased reviews in the past. I wouldnt trust them. BTW Puma is not closed afaik.

8800GS is dead.

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Originally Posted by Starscream

why would the delay of the 9 series hurt Nvidia?
ofc it will slightly show in the sales figures but it isnt like they have no other GPUs for sale atm. And ATIS new lineup also stil isnt here but ofc we wont mention that.

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Because 3600, 3400 catch the new year OEM contracts ands delays in this time are bad for that.

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Originally Posted by Starscream

SO were are you getting that Nvidias profit margin on the geforce 9 series per GPU is lower then AMD/ATIs?

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Geforce 9 don´t exist in the market but 65nm process tecnologie is the same used in 8800GT that brought margins problems in Q4 2007.

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Originally Posted by Starscream

Further you mention that the Puma platform is closed so would only allow for ATI chipset and GPU.
Asfar as i know it is an open platform on the chipset and GPu side and everyone can deliver a chipset or GPu for it aslong as it has the OK from AMD.
Atm Nvidia chipsets and GPUs are also part of the Puma platform.
Unless ofcourse that you can back up that it is closed.

So saying 100+ OEM deals to the Puma platform doesnt mean 100+ OEM contracts for AMD CPU, chipset and GPU.

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The key technologies that comprise “Puma” are AMD’s next-generation notebook processor, codenamed “Griffin”, matched with the next-generation AMD “RS780” mobile chipset.

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http://www.physorg.com/news98714997.html

More info:
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=11753
http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/004427.html

The Puma plataform is so open as Intel Centrino is. Basicaly AMD is not negociating 100+ OEM deals to benefict Nvidia or others.
The basis of puma is Griffin + RS780. The fact here is that RS780 suport hybrid crossfire and OEM will chose discrete ATI grafic cards to benefict from this.

Ya is open, but in the end you will end up with 90% or more With all AMD and the rest with Nvidia parts too.
Why do you think that reports expect very strong ATI in mobile? They know this and know that all those contracts are made whith ATI chip7 and most of them with ATI discrete grafics because hybrid crossfire.
Also HD 3400 and HD 3600 mobile, and RS780 mobile where already launched and ready to fullfill all those contracts plus other contrats of ATI discrete with Intel laptops.

The factor number 3 is that AMD can make special prices with the OEM´s that choose all AMD parts. That´s what Intel did and does actually.

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Originally Posted by Starscream

And why again is it a problem that in the mobile market Nvidia only has 65nm GPUs and AMD has 55nm GPUs?
Does a smaller die size per se mean alot loower heat output and power usage? NO.

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55nm let you have more power saving, more clocks and more chips per waffer -> more volume in the market

@v_rr

but like said ATIs new lineup also stil isnt around.
And OEM isnt were the profit is tbh. The profit margin on chips sold to retailers is higher then the same chip in the OEM market.
OEM contracts are mostly used to cover the costs and also so that upfront the company know that theyl atleast sell a certain nr of products this will lower certain costs per chip so that they will have more room in the retail market when it comes to pricing.

And dont forget that the last few years ATI also managed to get certain big OEM deals but in the end of those years Nvidia usualy sold more, made more profit and grew more in the total market.

So if you get all the big OEM deals but in retail nobody wants your product ur stil screwed.

Further its normal that profit margin on a product goes down when that product line is going to an end. Why? Cause a fully new lineup is coming and the companys have to clear their stock of the old product thus wills ell them for a lower profit just to get rid of them. So having lower profit per sold product at the end of a product line is a normal thing. This is also explained by all the diffrent 8800 cards we suddenly see like the GS.

About Puma.
So now ur saying PUma isnt closed? Sorry but get your facts straight.
Maybe you should actualy look further then ur nose is long.
OEMs are completely free to use whatever they want aslong as it is on AMDs list.
And why do you post 3 links? those links are simple product presentations they say nothing about 100+ OEM deals or maybe could you point out to me were in those 3 links it says that AMD made 100+ OEM deals wich are all AMD CPU and ATI CHipset and GPU.

And about those links. they are product presentations ofc AMD will only mention their own products in their product presentation and will talk about how grt their products are cause that is what product presentations are for.

Btw package deals (CPU, Chipset and GPU) are nice for market share but usualy dont help much with profits. this cause the companys usualy sell their package deals for a very low price. On OEM deals themselves the profit is usualy low and on those package deals usualy lower. Like said OEMs are to cover the cost not to make profits.

And that a smaller process means lower heat output and lower power usage isnt a 100% guarantee. There have been countless situations in the past were a smaller process used more power and had a higher heatoutput then a similar chip at a bigger process.

Just check the review in the TS if you havent already and check the huge diffrence in power usage between the 9600GT and the 3870. If you havent noticed yet that was sarcasm.

edit: hmm a smaller process doesnt per definition mean more products out of a waffer.
Ofc if u have product 1 at 65nm and suddenly shrink the die size to 55nm youl get more product out of a waffer but if u compare Product A at 65nm to product B at 55nm it doesnt per definition mean that B will get more dies out of its waffer then A.
This also depends on yields and on the actual size of the die.
Further ive nvr doubted that a smaller process means more products. What ive said is that the die process is only 1 of many factors that decide on the cost price per product So just cause Product A is 65nm and Product B is 55nm doesnt per se mean that product B has a way lower cost price.
Further production volume isnt everything you also have to sell your product and performence is what sells your product.

Sorry v_rr on some bits your right but most bits in ur posts seems stuff that your fabricating urself fully based on rumors.
maybe in a year it turns out your right but atm you have nothing that fully backs up your claims.

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Originally Posted by cegras

Has anyone noticed that whenever the Radeon wins, they change the scale of the x-coordinate so their win is reduced, but in graphs like 3dmark06 they set the divisions to 500 so even if the 8800 GT wins, it seems like it's winning by a whole big margin?

What kind of failure of misrepresentation of data is this?

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Hehe, was about to put this graph.... (ET: QW in case it doesn't show)

http://images.tweaktown.com/imagebank/gal96gt_g_08.gif

....and say.... "nice scaling!" :p:

another review in chinese : http://www.pconline.com.cn/diy/graph...1/1205247.html

benches from it:

http://i32.tinypic.com/20sdu36.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/2v12fid.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/1zgqdxd.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/vmswuc.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/2dtyihu.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/6iwgeq.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/33e3nth.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/161esut.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/atwzmr.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/5luidj.jpg

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Originally Posted by Starscream

@v_rr

but like said ATIs new lineup also stil isnt around.

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It is arround ;)
The exception is only RS780 in China.
You get HD 3870X2, HD 3800, HD 3600, HD 3400 on the market today.

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And dont forget that the last few years ATI also managed to get certain big OEM deals but in the end of those years Nvidia usualy sold more, made more profit and grew more in the total market.

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From Q3 -> Q4 ATi won in mobile and desktop. That happened from Q1-Q3 2007 because bad R600 and to much delays in all products.

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About Puma.
So now ur saying PUma isnt closed? Sorry but get your facts straight.
Maybe you should actualy look further then ur nose is long.
OEMs are completely free to use whatever they want aslong as it is on AMDs list.
And why do you post 3 links? those links are simple product presentations they say nothing about 100+ OEM deals or maybe could you point out to me were in those 3 links it says that AMD made 100+ OEM deals wich are all AMD CPU and ATI CHipset and GPU.

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I just say that by reports ati mobile will have strong demand through 2008. And Puma help that. I continue saying that Puma is as open as Centrino is. You will end up with almost every designs with Griffin + RS780 and by hybrid crossfire lots of HD 3400 mobile.

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Mobility

Another very positive piece of information presented at the call was that the upcoming Puma mobile platform has already achieved 100+ design wins with major OEMs, and the platform has not officially been released yet. Puma is AMD’s next generation mobile platform, and it is a pretty radical departure for AMD.

Puma is comprised of the RS780/SB700 chipset, which features the next gen DX10 integrated graphics technology from AMD, and the “Griffin” processor. The radical departure for AMD is that this is a custom designed processor for mobile use, and not simply a desktop processor that has been fabricated with mobile steppings in mind. Griffin is essentially an Athlon X2 that is tuned for mobile use, and it has a redesigned memory controller which more efficiently handles DDR-2 with greater performance. It also has the ability to power down different areas of the chip when not in use, and can even successfully power down the memory while in a lower power state.

The RS780 is based on TSMC’s 55 nm process and features the same graphics technology in the current RV670 chip and its upcoming derivatives. It is highly cut down from the full RV670, but the performance should redefine the integrated market. At least that is what quite a few partners are saying. Considering how well the previous generation AMD 690G performed against both NVIDIA and Intel parts, we have a pretty good feeling on how well this part should work. Users certainly should not expect to play DX10 games at high resolutions, but previously unavailable DX9 games should work fine up to resolutions of 1024x768.

AMD is very excited about Puma, and apparently many major manufacturers are excited as well. 100+ design wins on a product that has yet to be released does say a lot, and if it performs as expected then others will jump on board with designs of their own. AMD sees this as a very good area of growth for itself and its partners in 2008.

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http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid...e=expert&pid=3

Here you can see how PUMA is equal to Grifin + RS780. You can also have Intel CPUs with Vias or Sis board, but how many of them exist? Almost none.... the lion share is CPU + chip7 intel and AMD will follow that way.
For OEM is much better -> better prices, only 1 suplier, more markting, more guaraties of speed and stability, only need 1 contract with 1 manufacter (AMD), etc

Thats why I say Puma is AMD Centrino.

Quote:

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Ofc if u have product 1 at 65nm and suddenly shrink the die size to 55nm youl get more product out of a waffer but if u compare Product A at 65nm to product B at 55nm it doesnt per definition mean that B will get more dies out of its waffer then A.
This also depends on yields and on the actual size of the die.

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55nm TSMC is just a half-node of 65nm TSMC and yields at 55nm are the same as 65nm.
Also in transistor count you will notice that HD 3800 have less transistors then G92.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Epsilon84

We're not, since there aren't even any DX10.1 games out at the moment. V_rr sure likes to harp on about it declaring ATI supremacy though. ;)

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well, when the geforce 6 series came out, there were no dx9.0c games.
If amd lowers the price of the 3870 to the price of the 9600gt, it could very well be a deciding factor, the 2 cards are so close in every other aspect.
on the other hand, if the 9600gt's are priced too high, then i think ppl will just pay the extra few bucks for an 8800gt

9600gt @ 850 = :) plus the ram is only clocked at 1ghz? c'mon. i'm sure other card makers will have higher bus speeds, hence why the card was getting worse as the resolution went up.

hmm...i suspected a OC'd card....Anyway, this should be my next graphix card.And what the heck is that noise levels?71 dB is too much!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Morais

hmm...i suspected a OC'd card....Anyway, this should be my next graphix card.And what the heck is that noise levels?71 dB is too much!

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Aftermarket cooling anyone? :D

with that money you can buy 8800 gt i think :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mad1723

Aftermarket cooling anyone? :D

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Sure :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by v_rr

Using old Cat 7.1 + using 9600GT OC + using HD 3870/8800GT non-OC.
Don´t suport DX_10.1 is just Lame.

Sis suport DX_10.1 ....

---

First, a vast majority of NVidia cards ARE pre-overclocked. To say "using a 9600GT OC" is lame is just pretty funny, considering you will be able to buy that exact card, putting out that exact same performance, without having to do any work whatsoever. Stock is exactly how it came to you from the store. Now, how many pre-clocked ATi cards are there?

Second, there isn't even a single title ANNOUNCED, much less on the market, using DX10.1. No announced patched in support either. DX10.1 is pretty much on ignore presently by gaming development houses. Would it be nice to see dx10.1 support? Sure. Is it "lame" because it lacks it? No.

It would be if it was in use at all, or even considered to be used in the next year or so, but by the time it's actually used we'll all be using much more powerful cards than we currently have. :up:

Funny how some blame the editors for being NVIDIA friendly, those guys are voiding the NDA... and would NVIDIA really support them financially if they have their launch day just in a couple of days, why would they do that for...

On those pictures I see a big core, would that be of all the features that are included in the GPU... I wonder ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BGVirtual

another review in chinese : http://www.pconline.com.cn/diy/graph...1/1205247.html

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Did they list the core/shader/mem clocks in the review.

IMHO it looks like where nVidia need to be with a mid range product: a bit better than 3850, catching 3870 and 8800GS

They love making their products redundant!

Surprisingly good performance. :)

Reviews of the 9600GT look cookedup so far!

64stream processors breaking 10k?

and the 96 proccy equpped 8800gs trainling behind?

Lets hav a clock for clock comparison, snce theyre both at 65nm
im mighty interested in the 8800gs at 155$

Also, that means the 9600gt cant possible b over 150$!!

:D Happy days are here again!!!

btw, is the g94 actually any different from the g92 besides the casteration it got?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by initialised

Did they list the core/shader/mem clocks in the review.

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Yes, i think
http://i26.tinypic.com/29z1qpt.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DilTech

First, a vast majority of NVidia cards ARE pre-overclocked. To say "using a 9600GT OC" is lame is just pretty funny, considering you will be able to buy that exact card, putting out that exact same performance, without having to do any work whatsoever. Stock is exactly how it came to you from the store. Now, how many pre-clocked ATi cards are there?

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You also have OC versions of ATI. SO use them both.

Quote:

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Second, there isn't even a single title ANNOUNCED, much less on the market, using DX10.1. No announced patched in support either. DX10.1 is pretty much on ignore presently by gaming development houses. Would it be nice to see dx10.1 support? Sure. Is it "lame" because it lacks it? No.

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If for you talking about DX_10.1 is stupid I think that more stupid don´t even talk about that :)

It´s a feature and it´s there. I don´t have astrological power like you seem to have. But your astrologial power seem very powerful :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by v_rr

You also have OC versions of ATI. SO use them both.



If for you talking about DX_10.1 is stupid I think that more stupid don´t even talk about that :)

It´s a feature and it´s there. I don´t have astrological power like you seem to have. But your astrologial power seem very powerful :rolleyes:

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It's not about if there's "oc versions of ATi"... You see, reviewers aren't going out and BUYING parts for reviews, they use what they have and/or are sent by manufacturers for review. If they haven't received an OC version of the 3850/3870 but have a standard one, they're going to use the standard one because that's what they have.

That's why it ends up with a lot of reviewers never testing CF vs SLi, because they usually don't have dualies from both brands on hand to do the testing. ;)

As for dx10.1 and "it's a feature"... It's a feature that means nothing to the end-user. So, having a feature that means absolutely nothing for likely atleast 1 year, possibly 2(and even then, it's for developers and makes practically NO difference to the end user), is a big deal? Especially when it's a feature that even it's creator microsoft has said is nothing to worry about in the slightest. Developers have been downplaying it as well. So I really don't see it being as much as a factor in this round....period.

Think for a second... ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deadsix

Reviews of the 9600GT look cookedup so far!

64stream processors breaking 10k?

and the 96 proccy equpped 8800gs trainling behind?

Lets hav a clock for clock comparison, snce theyre both at 65nm
im mighty interested in the 8800gs at 155$

Also, that means the 9600gt cant possible b over 150$!!

:D Happy days are here again!!!

btw, is the g94 actually any different from the g92 besides the casteration it got?

---

There's a few differences...

1.) 8800GS has a 192bit memory bus vs the the 256bit bus on the 9600gt.
2.) the 9600GT apparently uses new compression methods with AA making it more efficient than the 8 series when it comes to AA
3.) The shaders have been slightly reworked on the 9600GT, making them more efficient per clock(like how the G92 shaders are more efficient than the G80 shaders)
4.) new texture compression methods, which allow for it to do more work using less memory AND memory bandwidth to achieve to same thing(same thing with AA)

Basically, they took the improvements found in the 8800GT and pushed them further, which is why the 9600GT does so well with so little... If those same changes make it into a high-end with the high-end having a wider memory bus then...

dx10.1 is pretty nice.
so far it hasn't meant anything, but it has potential

$170 @ clubit!
http://www.clubit.com/product_detail...C-9600GT022108

Having looked at multiple reviews I'm still confused over power consumption as well as performance compared to 3850, 3870 and 8800GT. In some reviews PC is as bad as 8800GT and in some reviews it seems lower than 3850. In some reviews the 9600GT seems to outperform the 3870 and in some reviews it seems to have trouble keeping up with 3850. Doesn't really make purchase decisions all that easy.

wow, this really surprised me:

Quote:

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with the great success NVIDIA has been having over the past few years people simply feel more comfortable using an NVIDIA card instead of an ATI based one. NVIDIA also tend to partner up with more game companies it seems, meaning that ultimately newer games are made for NVIDIA and able to perform better on their cards.

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its rather unprofessional to write something like this...
put down your own opinion without making clear its that, your opinion, and instead wording it like its a fact. he makes himself sound a bit biased here

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krille

Having looked at multiple reviews I'm still confused over power consumption as well as performance compared to 3850, 3870 and 8800GT. In some reviews PC is as bad as 8800GT and in some reviews it seems lower than 3850. In some reviews the 9600GT seems to outperform the 3870 and in some reviews it seems to have trouble keeping up with 3850. Doesn't really make purchase decisions all that easy.

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at stock its slower than 3870, many results are with overclocked 9600gt cards, thats why they score the same as 3870 or are even a tad faster...
very unprofessional to review the first of its generation videocard only at oced settings and not at reference clocks. they should have done reference clocks vs oced vs competition, not only to know how ref compares to the competition, but also to get an idea how much faster an oced 9600gt is, how it scales, how fast itll be vs other mfgs oced 9600gts that have higher or lower oced settings etc...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saaya

wow, this really surprised me:



its rather unprofessional to write something like this...
put down your own opinion without making clear its that, your opinion, and instead wording it like its a fact. he makes himself sound a bit biased here

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It may be unprofessional but it's not entirely wrong either.

looks ok but whats price? seems to me to make no sense to buy the newest card, that cannot play the new games coming out?

The price overhere in the netherlands is around 170-200 euro's depending on what brand you buy.

Oh, if these overclock well I think I have just found 2 cards to replace my old 1950pro :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by v_rr

It is arround ;)
The exception is only RS780 in China.

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Will you PLEASE STOP LYING about your China BS! I travel to China frequently this time of year. AND THEY DO NOT HAVE IT!

I asked you for proof earlier and you never gave any. Because there IS NONE!

Your fanboyism is simply XTREME.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shintai

Will you PLEASE STOP LYING about your China BS! I travel to China frequently this time of year. AND THEY DO NOT HAVE IT!

I asked you for proof earlier and you never gave any. Because there IS NONE!

Your fanboyism is simply XTREME.

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AMD to ship RS780 in China first due to driver issues

Quote:

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Although AMD has already completed the hardware for its next generation IGP chipset, RS780, the company is still waiting on drivers to support its new Hybrid CrossFireX technology. As a result the company has decided to launch the motherboard only in China on January 23, while the launch date in other countries will be set after the driver is complete, according to sources at motherboard makers.

Since Hybrid CorssFireX technology is a major feature of the RS780 chipset, AMD hopes to give the technology the best introduction to the market it can. However, any significant delay in shipments could end up hurting AMD's profits and momentum. Therefore, the company has decided to adopt a strategy of selling the motherboards in certain regions first.

Final Hybrid CrossFireX drivers are expected to be distributed to AMD's partners by the middle of February, with the worldwide launch of the RS780 to take place before the end of February, if all goes well, noted the sources.

---

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20080115PD216.html

AMD RS780 IGP chipset boosts entry-level CPU sales

Quote:

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AMD's recent launched RS780 IGP chipset is enjoying strong demand in the China market and has boosted the demand for the company's entry-level CPUs, according to channel vendors in China.

AMD's entry-level CPU market share in China was between 40% to 50% before the launch of RS780 motherboards. But since the launch, sales have jumped to 60%-70%, noted the sources.

The strong sales can be attributed to the RS780's multimedia capabilities. AMD's decision to include its UVD engine as part of the chipset allows systems to playback DVDs and even high-definition video without the need for a powerful CPU.

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http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20080201PD209.html

Please being you the XTREME fanboy of this forum don´t write those things :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by v_rr

AMD to ship RS780 in China first due to driver issues


http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20080115PD216.html

AMD RS780 IGP chipset boosts entry-level CPU sales

http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20080201PD209.html

Please being you the XTREME fanboy of this forum don´t write those things :)

---

I have spend more time this year IN CHINA than anywhere else. And I am going there again on March first.

IT IS NOT AVALIBLE ANYWHERE IN CHINA!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shintai

I have spend more time this year IN CHINA than anywhere else. And I am going there again on March first.

IT IS NOT AVALIBLE ANYWHERE IN CHINA!

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Keep on going :up:

You should be very powerfull to know the retail, chanel, and OEM market of 1 Bilion people country :rofl:

Worst is that there are reports by digitimes (not inq or fudzilla) from pre and pos selling of RS780 in China

Quote:

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AMD's entry-level CPU market share in China was between 40% to 50% before the launch of RS780 motherboards. But since the launch, sales have jumped to 60%-70%, noted the sources.

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You are just hilarious.

More:
AMD launches 7 series IGP chipsets in China

Quote:

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AMD launched three IGP chipsets in China on January 23, including the AMD 740G chipset with ATI Radeon 2100 graphics (RS740), AMD 780V chipset with ATI Radeon 3100 graphics (RS780C) and AMD 780G chipset with ATI Radeon HD 3200 graphics (RS780), while the worldwide launch of these products has been postponed to March 5, according to sources at motherboard makers.

The 740G is an upgrade of the previous RS690 chipset and therefore only supports up to DirectX 9, HyperTransport 1.0 and PCI Express (PCIe) 1.1a, but it is pin is compatible with the RS780. The chipset will target entry-level and OEM markets with motherboard pricing set around US$40-60.

The RS780 series includes two versions, the RS780 for performance/mainstream markets and the RS780C targeting lower-end markets. The differences between the two are that RS780C does not support AMD's UVD engine, Hybrid CrossFire technology or local frame buffer memory. RS780C-based motherboards will be priced around US$60-70, while RS780 boards will cost around US$70-90.

In additional news, AMD will launch one more chipset, the RX780H later in 2008 which will be pin compatible with RD790, RD780, RX780 and RX740 chipset boards. Meanwhile in 2009 the company will launch the RD890, RX880 chipsets SB800 southbridge, noted the sources.

AMD commented that in order to fulfill client demand and create a suitable product development cycle, the company has chosen China as the first region to launch its 780 chipsets. The company said that it plans to start shipping to the worldwide market in the first quarter of 2008, but stressed that it has not yet publicly announced a date.

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http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20080124PD200.html

ONDA 780G
http://people.beareyes.com.cn/cgi-bi...e1,20080122377
http://www.enet.com.cn/article/2008/...17117903.shtml
http://translate.google.com/translat...&hl=en&ie=UTF8

Onda is a Chinese brand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by v_rr

Keep on going :up:

You should be very powerfull to know the retail, chanel, and OEM market of 1 Bilion people country :rofl:

Worst is that there are reports by digitimes (not inq or fudzilla) from pre and pos selling of RS780 in China


You are just hilarious.

More:
AMD launches 7 series IGP chipsets in China

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20080124PD200.html

ONDA 780G
http://people.beareyes.com.cn/cgi-bi...e1,20080122377
http://www.enet.com.cn/article/2008/...17117903.shtml
http://translate.google.com/translat...&hl=en&ie=UTF8

Onda is a Chinese brand.

---

It is not in the big stores in Beijing, Chengdu, Guangzhou, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Wuhan. Nor is it avalible in any online store. Can you tell me where? Or is it as usual no? Being launched and being avalible is quite 2 different things. Can you even show me the board on mobo makers pages?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saaya

at stock its slower than 3870, many results are with overclocked 9600gt cards, thats why they score the same as 3870 or are even a tad faster...
very unprofessional to review the first of its generation videocard only at oced settings and not at reference clocks. they should have done reference clocks vs oced vs competition, not only to know how ref compares to the competition, but also to get an idea how much faster an oced 9600gt is, how it scales, how fast itll be vs other mfgs oced 9600gts that have higher or lower oced settings etc...

---

First generation samples are really bad overclockers, lucky, retail samples will be second wave in most cases. I will soon have both revision at my side, comparing what exactly NVIDIA changed. I tell you, the difference is huge, at least 50MHz!

9600GT in SLI pwns a single G92 8800gts????

http://en.expreview.com/?p=273&page=15

Sure that two 96GT will be faster than one 8800GTS G92, but two 96GT will consume more power, they'll be louder, will heat up pretty hard with singleslot coolers in case and OC potential will be less. Also 50$ more. Go figure. Not to mention you need nVidia chipset board, that is expensive and have compatibility flaws with lots of memory.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbone8ty

9600GT in SLI pwns a single G92 8800gts????

http://en.expreview.com/?p=273&page=15

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It's pricier than a 8800GTS also... ;)

Plus what Kasparz said with one addition. Single card delivers its full power always. SLI is driver and game dependent...