Or try LinX and Prime95 Blend and find out if it's really stable. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by OLDcomer
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Or try LinX and Prime95 Blend and find out if it's really stable. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by OLDcomer
Anything new about your bios 1xxx?
I donīt think ASUS will release it before april 2010:rolleyes:
It's a part of their strategy. The longer they wait to release something the longer it stays quiet. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Fritz_the_germ
They are waiting till someone starts screaming "GRRR... WHERE'S THE NEW BIOS FOR THE RAMPAGE FORMULA :mad:"
Consider this the SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!!!
On another note are there any memory timings in our Bios that are better higher rather than lower (i.e like how tREF gives more performance at 16383t rather then 3120t)
I asked them when we could expect the new BIOS.Quote:
Originally Posted by leo27
There are no other timings.
The only BIOS I remember that calculated the tREFs at 16,383T was the 0308 version.Quote:
Originally Posted by leo27
Itīs right that the memory performance increases by increasing the tREFs. But you shouldnīt forget that you are loosing stability because your memory needs refreshing after a while or your systems breaks down all of a sudden. The more often your memory gets the "refreshing" the better the datas will stay complete to work. Condenser memorychips need a refreshing after a while or they "forget".
The longer your memory wonīt get a refreshing the higher is the risk that the memory will "forget" the stored datas.
Thatīs why the 16,383T should be used for benching - but not for the 24/7 use. Gaining stability a tRFEs value of 2,600T is even better.
Hello all,
I've recently attempted to OC my system using the 0902 BIOS but I wasn't able to get a stable OC at all. I've flashed my BIOS back to 0803 and set my BIOS settings to the following:
Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
CPU Ratio Setting [8.0]
FSB Strap to North Bridge [400MHz]
FSB Frequency [450MHz]
PCIE Frequency [100MHz]
DRAM Frequency [1081MHz]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM CLK Skew on Channel A/B [Auto]
DRAM TimingControl [Auto]
DRAM Static Read Control [Enabled]
Ai Clock Twister [Moderate]
Ai Transaction Booster [Manual]
Common Performance Level [08]
Pull-In of CH A/B all disabled
CPU Voltage [1.35000V]
CPU PLL Voltage [1.50V]
North Bridge Voltage [1.45V]
DRAM Voltage [2.2V]
FSB Termination Voltage [1.3V]
South Bridge Voltage [1.05V]
SB 1.5V Voltage [1.50V]
Loadline Calibration [Disabled]
CPU GTL Voltage Reference [0.63X]
NB GTL Voltage Reference [0.67X]
DRAM Controller Voltage REF [Auto]
DRAM Channel A/B Voltage REF [Auto]
CPU Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
PCIE Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
CPU Clock Skew [Delay 200ps]
NB Clock Skew [Delay 100ps]
CPU Ratio Setting [8.0]
C1E Support [Disabled]
CPU TM Function [Enabled]
Vanderpool Technology [Disabled]
Execute Disable Bit [Enabled]
Max CPUID Value Limit [Disabled]
I'm trying to get my OC stable at 3.6ghz but my system won't even load into Windows 7. If I down clock to 3.4ghz I'm able to boot into Windows but Prime 95 fails within a few minutes. Any suggestions on how to get my CPU stable at 3.6 or will I have to live with 3.4ghz?
Thanks!
For your BIOS problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiguy
1. Remove the power cable from your PSU and push the Clear CMOS button for a minute or something.
2. Enter BIOS setup and load setup defaults.
3. Flash your board with BIOS 0902.
4. Repeat step 1. and 2. and don't load your old overclock profiles.
If that doesn't work reflash it with the same procedure. This seems to work when you've got problems with BIOS 0902 flashing it the first time. Don't ask me why but it's a fact.
For your overclock. Does your memory need 2.2V for 1081MHz?
Run MemTest86+ and try to find out how much voltage you need for 1081MHz.
If you need 1.45V for the NB to be stable at FSB 450MHz with Ai Clock Twister Moderate there's a good chance that you experience the exact same issue that I've got at FSB 470MHz when using CPU Clock Skew Delay 200ps and NB Clock Skew Delay 100ps and that is that higher voltage on the NB makes it unstable.
The 100ps delay difference between the CPU and NB Clock Skew is the key to the high FSB overclocks with our Quads but we need a new BIOS that makes it possible to use it with FSB 450MHz+ without having to push the NB Voltage higher than we should need for that FSB frequency to have it stable.
Try with CPU Clock Skew Delay 100ps and NB Clock Skew Normal or both on Auto with Ai Clock Twister Moderate. You can also leave it with CPU Clock Skew Delay 200ps and NB Clock Skew Delay 100ps and try with Ai Clock Twister Light or Lighter.
You should be able to use Common Performance Level 7 with FSB 450MHz and DDR 1081MHz.
Thanks fritz and a-grey for the quick answer to my memory question
Also fritz i've been running a tREF of 16383t for almost 3 months and am HCI memtest 12 passes stable as well as 12 hours P95 blend+UT2004 stable so i guess my memory has no troble running with it
@Swiguy
As A-Grey said you vNB looks quite high for 450 fsb with Clock twister moderate, i need 1.42v at 425 fsb at clock twister stronger (clock twister really requires a large bump up on the vNB). If you memory is memtest86+ stable (run test 5 for an hour) then i'd say you need the BIOS we've all been waiting for.
Also which test of P95 is failing, is it smallFFT's or Large FFT's?
If smallFFT's the chances are its vCPU or CPU GTL's or your processor can't handle the clock speed (unlikely at 3.6Ghz for a q9450)
If largeFFT's then it could be vNB, NB GTL here's a rough guide relating to problem size
1024 – VTT or vNB
896, 448 – vNB
768, 512, 332 - VTT
Here's some information about the new BIOS.
The ASUS R&D team is working on new products and didn't have the time yet to make the new BIOS. The new BIOS will be released but we just have to wait a little longer.
I hope I can still test it with relative low room temperature to minimize the risk of damaging my hardware.
@greg.m
Where are you man. I didn't see you around for a long time.
Did you forget to put anti-freeze in your watercooling loop? :rofl:
I tried the above but I'm still freezing within a minute in Windows 7. Not sure what I'm missing here since I was overclocked to 3.4ghz (425fsb) on the 701 BIOS. Ever since I've updated my BIOS to 0803 or 0902 I've had a very unstable system... any other suggestions?Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Grey
I've attempted various voltages for my NB (1.39 to 1.45) and all have failed. I can't even run P95 for 5 seconds... my system freezes up and reboots. As I mentioned to A.Grey, I've had instability issues ever since I upgraded my BIOS from 0701. I even tried going back to 0701 and still freezing up :SQuote:
Originally Posted by leo27
Try with higher CPU Voltage and run Prime95 Small FFT's to see if you can get that stable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiguy
Can you pass MemTest86+ without errors?
Try with higher CPU Voltage and run Prime95 Small FFT's to see if you can get that stable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiguy
Can you pass MemTest86+ without errors?
My friend, im alive and im watching you :DQuote:
Originally Posted by A-Grey
My 4870x2 was a real pain in my ass the last 2-3 months until it died just before christmas, the worst period to buy a card or even rma. I was lucky to find one beast - as you kan see in my sig - which came to me with the new year. So you can easily imagine what im doing since then, tests, tests, benchs & benchs. Man, i tell you its the beastiest beast i ever had. Crazy fps everywhere. I read a lot arround and there are many who has something to say but the truth is: ITS A BEAAAST:explode2:
That's the strange part... I had my system overclocked to 3.4ghz on 1.318v (BIOS) prior to my BIOS upgrade. Maybe I should provide a more complete picture of what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Grey
I ordered a new case and power supply (950w Corsair) and transferred all of my parts to that case... prior to setting up my new case, I flashed my BIOS from version 0701 to 0902... ever since then I've had nothing but instability issues except when I'm running stock.
I have verified that the new PSU has solid rails at 3.3v, 5v and 12v. Additionally, I insured I had all of the same BIOS settings when I was using 0701. I can't figure out why I can even stay stable in Windows 7 for longer then a minute now... I could run a 3.4ghz clock 24/7 with no issues before.
All of my temps seem quite good so there is no way a temp issue is causing immediate crashing/freezing within Windows 7. As for my BIOS settings now, I've set everything to AUTO pratically and have adjusted the voltages for the CPU from 1.3 to 1.45, CPU PLL from 1.5 to 1.54, NB from 1.41 to 1.55, DRAM at 2.1-2.2 (rated to run from 2.1 to 2.4), FSB term from 1.31 to 1.4 and SB all set to auto.
The only other options I've changed are Loadline = disabled and spectrum settings = disabled... nothing seems to be working for me though... perhaps I should try loading defaults, flashing to 0902 again, clear CMOS (i.e. remove battery for 30 min or so), load defaults flash again?? Any suggestions will greatly help me out since I'm totally stumped!
Thanks again!!!
It wouldn' hurt if you re-flashed to 902 however do this: set to defaults, clears cmos, set to defaults, flash to 902, set to defaults, clear cmos, set to defaults then try. I know its super cautious but at least it'd rule out a bad flash.
Second that, imagine what those are like in CrossFire, if one is a beast :D, it brings down whatever I throw at it :frag:Quote:
Originally Posted by greg.m
Itīs so awesome, pure power :rocker:
A-Grey
I most say that you are doing a great work hammering on those Asus bios engineers :up:, much appreciated :yepp:
@greg.m
I see, that's what you were doing all the time, benching that Sapphire OC 5970. They can say what they want but the 5970 is the fastest card around and it doesn't look like Nvidia is going to outperform it with their Fermi.
@Ghostleader
We need something to unleash the power on the ASUS Rampage Formula to get our Quads on high FSB. We can't stay behind. :D
@Swiguy
The reason I'm asking if you can get it MemTest86+ stable at FSB 425-450MHz is because if you can't the board might be slowly dying. Try it and also try it with one memory stick (test them both so you know that it isn't your memory that's faulty).
I didn't get a chance to test my memory at 425-450 via Memtest yet... I'm fairly certain the memory is ok and I'm starting to think my motherboard is starting to die like you mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Grey
I ran my system completely stock last night and ran Prime95... I cam back in the morning roughly 7 hours later to find my system non-responsive.. had to hard reboot. I'm going to check my temps to see if maybe my heatsink needs to be reapplied but I believe my temps were fairly good... around 40 degrees Celsius per core idle stock. I'll post my stock load temps when I get home.
Try to raise the NB voltage to range 1.61-1.69. Especially if you have the 4 slots RAM occupied. And make sure you have a fan blowing to the heatsink, or even better have it watercooled.
It appears I've resolved my stability issues... my new Corsair TX950W power supply was the culprit! I didn't really think this was the issue at first but when I exhausted pretty much every other option I figured it was worth trying a different PSU. I installed a temporary power supply which instantly improved stability... right now I'm running my system @ 3.6ghz at similar settings mentioned in earlier posts.
I'm going to look and see if I can exhange this PSU with the HX series from Corsair since the modular design appeals to me. Anyhow, thanks to everyone who assisted me with this issue!
What would be the max safe NB voltage that you'd use with this board for 24/7 use??
Obviously lower is better but when the new bios comes round i'm going to have a crack at getting 3.5Ghz outta this chip and hopefully run it as my new OC
1.65V is safe enough.
This is a copy of a thread i made on the asus forum
I'd appreciate it if any one here can help with this alsoQuote:
I've just installed win 7 x64 and whilst all the other drivers have worked fine (sound, network etc) the intel inf refuses to install properly.
I have tried version 9.1.1.1025 and 9.1.1.1023 and they both exhibit the same problem. The install says sucess, it even said to restart the computer but the drivers listed in device manager list a driver from 2006 (i have tried the -overall and -overite commands also).
Has anyone got an intel inf that works fine with win 7 x64 and the rampage formula
EDIT: Intel Chipset version 9.1.1.1019 says the computer doesn't meet the minimum requirements
Only driver you can install is i think smbus driver. However keep in mind this drivers are not needed on Win7. This are essentialy only infs that "name" devices properly, with proper number of ports etc etc. And since this are not drivers they are basicaly useless, specialy on win7 where more or less everything is already as it should be with original instalation.
Hmm. Why did that pefectly working HD 4870x2 died on you? What was it again that caused it..:shocked:Quote:
Originally Posted by greg.m
If it works dont touch it.
If it doesn't work, Buy a new one.
Apparently you did both.
Touched it and bought a new one.
I :shrug: you tell me
Lets see how long this one will last :rofl::rofl::rofl:
Thanks for the help SoLoR
I just got it fixed. On a new Win7 x64 install I just installed intel inf 9.1.1.1019 (it doesn't really matter since the latest driver for the ICH9 is 9.1.1.1013) and let it install. Then I rebooted and manually updated the rest from the generic microsoft driver to the intel driver using the have disk method and pointing to a folder where i extracted the driver to.
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/759/capturefd.png
Its a shame that the intel installer doesn't seem to work properly but this method works fine and doesn't take too long.
However its compleatly useless still :) if you check files you see there are only infs and cats (catalogue files because they with WHQL signatures). There is no sys/dll files, thus no actual drivers. And reason why you can install "old" drivers is because back then they didnt have seperate infs for Vista/7, and installert fetches infs for Vista basicaly... After .1020, intel started to seperate Vista and Win7 infs so installer takes infs from Win7 folder and because Win7 have most things "as they should be" by default, there is much less support for Win7 needed. But if you think its better to have "Vista" old infs then original Win7 ones, then wont try to convince you otherwise, just keep in mind all those driver dates from original Win7 drivers (unless they are from WU) are fake... i mean not like people cant think on their own... x38/48/58 chipset in 2006? "ye right".
I do get what your saying SoLoR thanks for clearing that up, in the future i won't bother with it
Any updates about the new bios?
Guys, ifyou really want to see some serious :rolleyes::yepp: watercooled setup take a look here :
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=243865
Our "Rampage" friend neo_tr relly kills the heat:explode::shoot::D
Wait only to see some temps...
It takes ASUS to long to give us something new to play with so I've asked them if there's any news from the ASUS R&D team about the new BIOS for the ASUS Rampage Formula.
For you guys with a watercooling setup that wants to add a nice colour to your watercooling fluid check out this thread: Home made UV dyes
You can find some nice pictures that I took of my setup in post 480.
Recently I swapped my 1.3 vid q9650 for 1.2 vid q9650 and here are some results:
4400MHz 9x489
Small FFT
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/1...lfftjpg.th.jpg
Blend
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/3...8vblend.th.jpg
Everest
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2...achemem.th.png
LinX
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/7...48vlinx.th.jpg
Max benching Clock
9x510
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/4723/cine11.th.jpg
@OLDcomer
Nice result but I keep it at FSB 450MHz. I hate the fact that you've got to use so much NB voltage to push on the FSB and still can't get it stable at FSB 500MHz.
About the new BIOS. I didn't get a reply back from the ASUS Tech Support yet. The office is closed till next week for the Chinese New Year. ;)
heh, somehow i think there will be always "something" with asus, when it comes to new RF bios.Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Grey
1.65V NB voltage is enough for 489fsb but with Auto AI Twister. For Strong AI Twister it needs 1.69V.Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Grey
You have to realize that ASUS wonīt release a new BIOS in the next six months.:down:Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstormz
No matter if someone is begging them all the time.
A BIOS update for the ASUS Rampage Formula has zero priority so you could be right that we won't see it before the next six months but at least they said that they are going to release a new BIOS. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz_the_germ
I think the socket 775 is a dead end for ASUS. They invest their money and their knowledge in the X58 chip.
Don't tell me you are surprised.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz_the_germ
A lot of guys are still buying an ASUS Rampage Formula board because it's a cheaper upgrade solution than buying a P55 or X58 board. They still expect some support from ASUS for their purchase and that includes a new BIOS.
Besides, it was march, april 2008 when rampage x48 came out - just go back at the first page of this thread! Do you guys remember when bios 0902 came out? Just take a look.Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Grey
The hole bios development lasted almost a year :mad: That really sucks:down:
Yea that sucks, but there is nothing we can really do.
Keep in mind that a new year for the Chinese people has just begun. ;)
The ASUS Tech Support office will be open again on Monday. I expect to have a reply on my mail within a few days.
I'm having some fun with my board again. I'm trying to run Prime95 Blend at 4.5GHz with that old BIOS 0902. LinX is a no go but maybe some Prime95 might go while waiting for better BIOS. :D
I've spent quite some time reading through the whole thread I started playing around with my OC again.
I would like to share my settings as well as ask A-Grey Mikeyame greg.m especially for some suggestions to improve on the result.
CPU: E8500 C0 SLAPK Q817A608 (D-Tek FuZion v2)
MOBO: ASUS Rampage Forumla rev. 1.03G made in China BIOS v0902 (MOSFETS NB & SB Watercooled)
RAM: G.Skill F2-9600CL5D-4GBPI CL5-5-5-15 2.1v (active aircooled)
*Extreme Tweaker*
Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
CPU Ratio Setting [09.5]
FSB Strap to North Bridge [Auto]
FSB Frequency [455]
PCIE Frequency [110]
DRAM Frequency [DDR2-1213MHz]
DRAM Command Rate [Auto]
DRAM CMD Skew on Channal A [Greyed Out]
DRAM CMD Skew on Channal B [Greyed Out]
DRAM CLK Skew on Channal A [Auto]
DRAM CLK Skew on Channal B [Auto]
DRAM Timing Control [Auto]
1st Information
CAS# Latency [5]
RAS# to CAS# Delay [5]
RAS# PRE Time [5]
RAS# ACT Time [15]
RAS# to RAS# Delay [3]
REF Cycle Time [52]
WRITE Recovery Time [6]
READ to PRE Time [3]
2nd Information
READ to WRITE Delay (S/D) [8]
WRITE to READ Delay (S) [3]
WRITE to READ Delay (D) [5]
READ to READ Delay (S) [4]
READ to READ Delay (D) [6]
WRITE to WRITE Delay (S) [4]
WRITE to WRITE Dealy (D) [6]
3rd Information
WRITE to PRE Delay [14]
READ to PRE Delay [5]
PRE to PRE Delay [1]
ALL PRE to ACT Delay [6]
ALL PRE to REF Delay [6]
DRAM Static Read Control [Disabled]
Ai Clock Twister [STRONG]
Ai Transation Booster [Manual]
Common Performance Booster [6]
Pull-In of CHA PH1 [Disabled]
Pull-In of CHA PH2 [Disabled]
Pull-In of CHA PH3 [Disabled]
Pull-In of CHA PH6 [Disabled]
Pull-In of CHB PH1 [Disabled]
Pull-In of CHB PH2 [Disabled]
Pull-In of CHB PH3 [Disabled]
CPU Voltage [1.4870] REAL [1.480]
CPU PLL Voltage [1.54] REAL [1.616]
North Bridge Voltage [1.69] REAL [1.712]
DRAM Voltage [2.04] REAL [2.096]
FSB Termination Voltage [1.50] REAL [1.424]
South Bridge Voltage [1.100] REAL [1.120]
SB 1,5V Voltage [1.55] REAL [1.584]
Loadline Calibration [Enabled]
CPU GTL Voltage Reference [0.63x]
NB GTL Voltage Reference [0.67x]
DRAM Controller Voltage REF [DDR_REF] REAL [1.040]
DRAM Channel A Voltage REF [AUTO]
DRAM Channel B Voltage REF [AUTO]
CPU LED Selection [CPU Voltage]
NB LED Selection [North Bridge Voltage]
SB LED Selection [South Bridge Voltage]
Voltiminder LED [ENABLED]
CPU Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
PCIE Spred Spectrum [Disabled]
CPU Clock Skew [Delay 100ps]
NB Clock Skew [Normal]
These are the min settings I could run stable using IBT. I tried every possible GTL combination with no success.
I've tried 460FSB with high volts upto:
CPU Voltage REAL [1.560]
CPU PLL Voltage REAL [1.712]
North Bridge Voltage REAL [1.744]
with no success :confused:
Is there a known ratio of vCore PLL FSBT & vNB which needs to be applied?
Do you really need 1.7V on the NB for FSB 455MHz?Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator
An update on my progress at 4.5GHz. I could run Prime95 Blend stable for 10 minutes before running in to a freeze. That was fun. :rofl:
A-Grey thanks for the quick reply
I am afraid the answer is no, as I said I've tried lower, but without success...
atm it doesn't bother me since my temps reach 40°C on full load. I've been running the board at those volts for 1.5years now. The question is if the NB can take more 24/7
I think that you're going to have to step down on Ai Clock Twister and try to delay the clock skew more for the CPU and the NB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator
I did a test today with the CPU and NB Clock Skew and when I delay the clock skew some more I can get it to Windows with less NB voltage. My 10 minutes Prime95 at 4.5GHz was possible with CPU Clock Skew Delay 400ps and NB Clock Skew Delay 300ps.
All we need is a BIOS that can work stable at high FSB with a Clock Skew Delay difference of 100ps between the CPU and the NB. Some changes on Ai Clock Twister should make that possible. The FSB Strap to North Bridge seems to be working well at 333MHz and it isn't a problem to run the memory at 1201MHz with FSB 500MHz.
It isn't impossible to run a Q9650@4.5GHz on the ASUS Rampage Formula but we desperate need a BIOS that makes it possible to run it completely stable.
well I tried Ai Clock Twister Moderate & Light going one notch higher on all the voltages with no success at 460FSB I didn't seem to have changed anything since my everest scores were roughly the same as at Ai Clock Twister Strong, which I found strange. I thought that would take some strain off the NB, maybe I am wrong & the PL is causing all this.
I will try another round with higher CPU & NB Skew delays lets hope that helps...
Lets hope that is the answer to my FSB wall.
Nop, I am not surprised at all. ASUS made the rampage formula to a part in the history and they wonīt warm it up again - no matter if the consumer realize it or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by kuebk
As long as we have a board we have the obligation to try to achieve the best, by any mean. You, Fritz, have not this board anymore so you dont care and you just saying what you think without any inhibitions, BUT if you still had this board you might had another opinion...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz_the_germ
Am i right?;)
We are desperate, we need one last new bios:yepp:
Well, I'm not surprised that you don't see any changes in your EVEREST score. My best score at FSB 470MHz is with Ai Clock Twister Lighter. That's exactly the reason why I think that Ai Clock Twister causes the problems with high FSB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator
ASUS confirmed that and said that they are going to try to fix that and I didn't hear them saying that it would be impossible to do that.
You're wrong they already confirmed the issues with the BIOS and this could only be done if they fired up the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz_the_germ
Senator isn't your vCPU to high?
kuebk well that is always your personal preference with what you are comfortable with.
Heck, I ran my E6600 for over a year with 1.65vCore & 1.60v FSBT/VTT no degrading what so ever. Ran my XP2500+ with 2.0v back in the days. Have yet to kill a CPU. MOBOs, well thats a different story...
For me 1.48vCore is fine since I'm watercooling and my temps are in check. Still going strong after 6 months.
Although I have to admit that I did a remount after lapping my CPU, my sensor is stuck at 18°C no matter what I do.
I stumbled across a thread of a guy here testing several 45nm CPUs at crazy voltages like 1.8vCore, 2.0 PLL 1.6FSBT/VTT running stress tests 24/7. At some point he gave up because nothing happend. But I can't seem to find the thread atm. Maybe someone here can link you.
A-Grey, sorry I haven't gotten round to testing different skew settings on CPU & NB yet, work is keeping me rather busy, but I'll keep you posted.
E6600 is 65nm but E8500 is 45nm, for which using such voltage is kinda risky.
It isnīt my intension to hurt anyones feelings.Quote:
Originally Posted by greg.m
I realy understand what you mean, greg. You guys definetly need a better BIOS. The ones you have got are not made for a FSB greater than 450 MHz plus a high memory speed.
I myself blamed it -togehter with Alien Grey- many times to the ASUS-Support. The answeres were nothing but a sweet talking bull:banana::banana::banana::banana: That was about eight months ago. But still up today ASUS wonīt do anything to help their costumers as far as I see.
I realy hope for you guys that Alien Grey is right and ASUS is getting out the corner.
Donīt be mad at me when I tell you how much I am disapointed - it is directed to ASUS not to you my friends.
Here's some good new and some bad news.
The bad news is that the new BIOS isn't ready. The good news is that ASUS didn't say that they couldn't fix what should be fixed in the BIOS. :D
A-Grey great to hear that! Lets really hope they keep their promise & are getting right to it and don't keep us waiting for another few months!
Sometimes I really wonder whether it is really that hard to fix the RF BIOS. With all the ASUS x38, x48 & x58 boards around, there surely must be similarities between them. What works for them should surely work for the RF.
But then again I really don't have the faintest clue about BIOS coding...
I don't think that the BIOS coding is the problem. The problem is that they don't have any socket 775 board that can do FSB 500MHz+ stable with a Quad so they have to do some research to find out how you can get it stable at FSB 500MHz+ with a Quad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator
Anyway I'm glad that they take this serious and don't say that it's a limitation of my hardware.
Do you realy have a revision 1.03G board?
If that is true I wonder what the difference is between the 1.03G and a 1.00G.
A-Grey, yes I in deed have a 1.03G revision board. To be honest I don't know the differences either. I've actually never looked into that.
But what I can tell you is that I have some S3 and cold boot issues.
What happens is that I get irregular BSODs and it sometimes takes up to 4 reboots until the system is stable. Once it is it passes all the stress tests.
My hunch is that its most probably the Ai Clock Twister which runs too tight, but since I can't change it, I've gotten used to this state.
No hurt feelings my friend, just wanted to be sure that IF someone watches us:D would see that there still are some poor guys who wait and wait and wait....;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz_the_germ
This is why we need a BIOS that can do 500FSB stable with a Quad. :D
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/q...z-BIOS0902.jpg
It would be a waste if I couldn't get that stable running on my board don't you think. :rolleyes:
I thought that I've seen it all with BIOS 0902 but I missed the best part. If you 're using the 3/4 divider it doesn't matter what Ai Clock Twister setting that you use in the BIOS because it's always the same bandwidth so I thought why not try Ai Clock Twister Lighter.
Did you ever see a Q9650 running Prime95 Blend stable at 4.05GHz and DDR 1199MHz with tRD 6 and tREF at 16383 with these voltages. :shocked:
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/q...RD6-tREF-1.jpg
Code:Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
CPU Ratio Setting [9.0]
FSB Strap to North Bridge [400MHz]
FSB Frequency [450MHz]
PCIE Frequency [100MHz]
DRAM Frequency [1199MHz]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM CLK Skew on Channel A/B [Auto]
DRAM TimingControl [Auto]
DRAM Static Read Control [Disabled]
Ai Clock Twister [Lighter]
Ai Transaction Booster [Manual]
Common Performance Level [06]
Pull-In of CH A/B all disabled
CPU Voltage [1.30000V]
CPU PLL Voltage [1.50V]
North Bridge Voltage [1.27V]
DRAM Voltage [1.80V]
FSB Termination Voltage [1.20V]
South Bridge Voltage [1.05V]
SB 1.5V Voltage [1.50V]
Loadline Calibration [Disabled]
CPU GTL Voltage Reference [0.63X]
NB GTL Voltage Reference [0.67X]
DRAM Controller Voltage REF [Auto]
DRAM Channel A/B Voltage REF [Auto]
CPU Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
PCIE Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
CPU Clock Skew [Delay 300ps]
NB Clock Skew [Delay 200ps]
Don't be afraid to use more CPU and NB Clock Skew Delay because these are the most important settings in the BIOS to obtain stability with low voltage. A delay difference of 100ps between the CPU and the NB is necessary. Without the delay difference it's impossible to keep it stable with low voltage.
Disabling DRAM Static Read also gave me a small bandwidth increase so I've got better performance and lower voltage than with my old settings. Using Ai Clock Twister Lighter didn't only make it possible to use lower NB Voltage, it also makes it possible to use lower FSB termination Voltage. :up:
Anyone tell me if there is any kind of formula/rule of thumb for determining a fsb vtt voltage? I have 4.0 (10*400) on my qx9650 but 4.2 (10.5*400) is not quite stable (and more volts than I expected)
I'm originally on a maximus formula and q6600 so all this 45nm stuff is new to me. I'm watercooled and still sub 40 Deg loaded (WCG) so I have room to go higher if I can only learn more about this setup
Hello everyone
I'd like to ask some of you guys Q9650, QX9650 users.
I've been lately thinking about changing my Q9450 CPU for Q9650. Even QX9650 as there were few in my area secondhand same priced as new Q9650s. That might be a little upgrade as I don't want to switch to I7, DDR3 because of lack of funds for it.
I just wonder how much performance in games would I gain while using CPU let's say 4.2- 4.3GHz (well, because I use quite efficient cooling, might be 4.5 GHz for 24/7) as compared with 3.8GHz? That's the CPU clock I've been running lately. What do you guys think? I consider here only CPU clocks speed and how it affects the games performance.
practically ZERO.... (form 3.8 to 4.2-4.3), u already use a good clocked full fledged 12mb Quad. if u had it at 3-3.2 i could "sympathy" your "consumer hunger", but from 3.8.... . After all of course.. its your pocket..
This is what I've found using UT2004 and Prime95 as a stability checker.
If you are using a 32 bit OS you don't need more than 3.6GHz. Everything higher than 3.6GHz isn't used by UT2004 and was used by Prime95. If you use a 64 bit OS than you can use more than 4GHz before it will be used by Prime95.
That's all I know about gaming and I don't know if it has something to do with my poor graphicscard, that should have been replaced already if I wasn't still waiting for nVidia, or not.
What I do know is that you don't want to buy a QX9650 second hand for the same price of a new Q9650. This is going to be wasted money for sure because you don't find a lot of QX9650 that can do 4GHz+ with reasonable voltage and still run stable. If you want to replace it look for a good Q9650. ;)
Hi A-Grey!
I read many of your very interesting posts here and on Asus VIP official forum.
With all your advices I managed to get my rig with Q9650 stable at 460*9 = 4150 MHz. I really wish Asus could give us a new 1xxx BIOS to unleash the full power of Q9650.
Many thanks for your great help!!! :up:
Cheers!
My last 2 screenshots that I've posted should be enough to convince ASUS to make a new BIOS to overclock our Quads. There isn't a problem with the hardware to run a Quad at FSB 500MHz it's the BIOS that isn't optimized for FSB 500MHz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antineutrino
When you've got to bump the NB Voltage from 1.25V at FSB 450MHz to 1.70V for FSB 500MHz than something is really wrong. I think that the FSB Strap to North Bridge should be more relaxed at FSB 450MHz+.
Thanks Guys for quite infomative posts:) For me it's only curiosity of the CPU related gaming performance, as there haven't been any real comparison between 45nm at different clocks. Believe me Papatsonis, my wallet wont be satisfied at all as I've lately purchased some other upgrades to my sports equipment (yes I believe the winter will give up sooner:)).
And of course the upgrade of the CPU is related with limited oc potential of Q9450 (mostly because of his high VID, my is 1.23V) as compared with Q9650. I already need very high Vcore to stabilize at 3.80GHz, FSB475.
(But at this point one needs to mention here comes our "immemorial" RF BIOS problem, which causes so much FSBTerm, NB voltages problems above FSB450; it's obvious, all you need is just to lower the CPUs multiplier for example to x7.0 and raise only FSB to see there is really a problem, how current hungry chipset becomes, it doesn't exist at some other mobos. I don't know, maybe it's the X48 chipset issue. As we all know, there are the P45 mobos that shows the best 45nm CPU OC performance, not the X48 ones.)
Quite interesting is what Alien Grey says about 32- and 64-bit OSes. I think generally it's up to the game engine if it's 32 or 64-bit version, and if it's installed on 64-bit OS. Then the game can (maybe) utilize more computing power of the CPU. I think the comparison should be made. These are only my empirical thoughts as I'm not any of the IT specialist.
Great results A-Grey! I'm sure you're very happy with your OC.
BTW I found the thread about high voltages: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=198614
I tried Ai Clock Twister Lighter, delaying the CPU uptp 400ps & NB 300ps, I even uped all the voltages by 2 steps with the result that IBT is sometimes stable & sometimes its not. That makes it even more complicated.
I would like to know if greg.m is using 1.77v on the NB 24/7.
I am also getting the feeling that Win7 x64 requires higher voltages. On top of that I have APIC + ACPI 2.0 enabled. A-Grey have you got those enabled aswell?
I've got them both enabled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator
Try to fine tune your settings first with using AI Clock Twister Lighter and the CPU and NB Clock Skew on a really stable overclock before you try it again at FSB 455MHz.
When you use the CPU and NB Clock Skew and you're using to much voltage than you would actually need than you can be sure that you won't get it stable.
I can't even overclock my CPU or my RAM anymore. BSOD when loading windows. CPU or RAM dead?
I have a previous post where i wrote to use FSB Voltage and PLL to minimum values.Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Grey
Dram Static Enabled + Moderate are my settings, so i guess there are
2 ways to minimize the voltages.
If i remember correctly setting Twister from Strong to Moderate to Light needs lower nb voltage but decreases bandwidth.
Not sure with Dram static Enabled / Disabled, i remember not seeing any difference in both voltages and bandwidth
Credit goes to A-Grey for his effort, time & support!
Once again thanks for you help A-Grey!
Got my head round trying lower volts! I actually didn't expect to get any lower but surprise, surprise, you were right:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1...00rf95x455.jpg
My new stable BIOS settings:
Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
CPU Ratio Setting [9.5]
FSB Strap to North Bridge [Auto]
FSB Frequency [455MHz]
PCIE Frequency [110MHz]
DRAM Frequency [1213MHz]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM CLK Skew on Channel A/B [Auto]
DRAM TimingControl [Auto]
DRAM Static Read Control [Disabled]
Ai Clock Twister [Lighter]
Ai Transaction Booster [Manual]
Common Performance Level [06]
Pull-In of CH A/B all disabled
CPU Voltage [1.46250V]
CPU PLL Voltage [1.52V]
North Bridge Voltage [1.27V]
DRAM Voltage [1.86V]
FSB Termination Voltage [1.40V]
South Bridge Voltage [1.05V]
SB 1.5V Voltage [1.50V]
Loadline Calibration [Enabled]
CPU GTL Voltage Reference [0.63X]
NB GTL Voltage Reference [0.67X]
DRAM Controller Voltage REF [Auto]
DRAM Channel A/B Voltage REF [Auto]
CPU Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
PCIE Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
CPU Clock Skew [Delay 500ps]
NB Clock Skew [Delay 400ps]
Just to get things straight, I was stable at 455FSB already. I am trying to go higer! Ultimate goal I would like to attain is 9.5x474=4502MHz.
I would appreciate any help to point me in the right direction from here. I did try to increase the Clock Skews along with an increase in FSB, but that didn't show any result.
The answer is that you need the new BIOS as bad as we do. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Senator
Look at the NB Voltage. :shocked: That makes me wonder how much voltage we would need for FSB 500MHz if ASUS releases the magical BIOS. Lower than 1.5V or maybe lower than 1.45V. :rofl:
Well that sad to hear. One thing I did notice though, is that I have lost about 100 to 150MB/s on the Read Bandwidth switching from Strong to Lighter. Which wasn't the case at first.
I did manage to get it stable at 460FSB, at 465 it wasn't stable anymore. I can't remember the exact settings, since the voltage increase from 455 was more than 2 notches. Thats why I just went back to 455.
After decreasing all my volts so substantially, I really thought I was coming to terms with the board & ready to hit the 4.5GHz mark. Which really is a pity since I've seen lots of other boards doing that high!
Well, I think that I'll have to make do with my result. Which really isn't that bad at all.
To be honest I really don't have my hopes up about a new BIOS since it's been a year now since the 0902 release.
If you want to overclock more than FSB 460MHz you can't have it stable anymore or you're going to have to increase the voltage a lot and step down on the clock skew.Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator
I still believe in a new better BIOS for the ASUS Rampage Formula to make it a better overclocking board. :yepp:
One thing i wanna know is you guys are hitting fsb's of 450+ with a vNB of like 1.25ish, is there any way for me to reduce my vNB i'm at 1.41 bios (about 1.42 real) for FSB of 425MHZ that doesn't sound right.
Here's my settings for reference (50 pass LinX, LargeFFT's, Blend+UT2004 rock stable)
Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
OC From CPU Level Up [Auto]
CPU Ratio Setting [08.0]
FSB Strap to North Bridge [400]
FSB Frequency [425]
PCIE Frequency [103]
DRAM Frequency [DDR2-850MHz]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM CMD Skew on Channal A [Greyed Out]
DRAM CMD Skew on Channal B [Greyed Out]
DRAM CLK Skew on Channal A [Auto]
DRAM CLK Skew on Channal B [Auto]
DRAM Static Read Control [Enabled]
Ai Clock Twister [Stronger]
Ai Transaction Booster [7]
CPU Voltage [1.41250v]
CPU PLL Voltage [1.50v]
North Bridge Voltage [1.41v]
DRAM Voltage [1.84v]
FSB Termination Voltage [1.36v]
South Bridge Voltage [1.05v]
SB 1,5V Voltage [1.50v]
Loadline Calibration [Enabled]
CPU GTL Voltage Reference [0.65x]
NB GTL Voltage Reference [0.67x]
DRAM Controller Voltage REF [AUTO]
DRAM Channel A Voltage REF [AUTO]
DRAM Channel B Voltage REF [AUTO]
CPU Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
PCIE Spred Spectrum [Disabled]
Cpu Clock Skew [Delay 200ps]
NB Clock Skew [Delay 100ps]
So i guess either i have a real crappy NB, AI clock twister stronger is the culprit or ??
Try with Ai Clock Twister Lighter and DRAM Static Read Disabled. If you can get that stable with lower NB Voltage than you might consider to buy some PC2-9600 memory to have better bandwidth or make the choice to use your old memory and loose bandwidth or go back to Ai Clock Twister Stronger and DRAM Static Read Enabled.Quote:
Originally Posted by leo27
I would like to add that I used to have an E6600 (I know its not a Quad) with G.Skill 6400CL4D-2GBHZ. Back then I decided to go for higher FSB, therefore I loosend timings from 4-4-4-12 850MHz to 5-5-5-15 1081MHz. CPU was 8x466FSB=3.738GHz with 1.63vCore. I had it running like that for a year, sold it to a friend & its still running strong!
I don't know what your temps are like, since I'm on watercooling. With 1.63vCore I was getting around 66°C running prime95. So if your temps are fine & you are comfortable using hight volts, then go for it. The 65nm Cores scale very well with volts.
A-Grey, thanks for pointing me in the right direction. On top of that I found a quote from mikeyakame post earlier along this thread regarding clock skew:
It takes time to get used to your particular hardware, and pay attention to the small details...how long it takes to POST, miniscule delays between BIOS POST codes on the LCD Poster, changes in OS response, even setup options being sluggish to select. There are so many things you can pick up on that believe it or not happen because of clock jitter and deviations. There will be FSB frequencies where you can have the bios and system tuned to respond amazingly fast, and others where no matter how hard you try the system is hit and miss. When this happens just go up or down a few mhz on FSB and try again, you might find a frequency that works better for your settings. Like I said up or down doesn't matter, BCLK drives FSB and its too high of a reference clock frequency so even going +-1mhz sometimes can completely destabilize settings you worked on for days to get right. Keep that in mind.
[....]
Let me add one final concept to this post.
If you are highly experienced with fine tuning the bios settings and have a good understanding of the AGTL+ FSB design concept and how the CPU<->MCH<->DRAM procedure works at a low level, and you don't mind nuking a few OS installs in the process, then the following might interest you
With the precise balance of CPU Clock Skew, NB Clock Skew, PL phase pull-ins, GTL Refs, DRAM CTL Ref, DRAM secondary/tertiary timings and Vnb you can further tighten Performance Level beyond the point that is unpostable
Thats the key to tightening PL beyond the physical divider limit you reach in most conditions. Ie if PL=7 is limit for 12:10 divider at 500FSB, then PL=6 and even tighter is possible if you can balance the whole system on a pin, ie the timing of all strobes from end to end is near PERFECTION! :up:
it's possible without a multi channel oscilloscope / logic analyzer, though you'd need a lot of patience,a good spare week or two to get it right, and a good OS ghost image to restore everytime you nuke it from being slightly wrong. :up: :up:
So I went right to it and tried to lower my skew delay step by step. Since I've been playing around with my system quite frequently later I can tell every little change I make. Its seems that I've found a good setting, as my systems is more responsive now. I am using CPU clock skew 200ps & NB clock skew 100ps.
I did have to increase vNB & vFSBT by one step, which I more than gladly take into account for having a snappier system.
@A-Grey
Thanks for confirming that the culprit is AI CLock Twister. Also can you confirm that disabling DRAM Static Read results in an increase of performance
Yes, Ai Clock Twister Lighter and DRAM Static Read Disabled gives me an increase of50Mb/s. I don't know if this is always like that if you use FSB Strap to North Bridge 400MHz but with divider 3/4 it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by leo27
I've made two screenshots to compare my old settings with my new settings in EVEREST. It isn't much better. Only 10Mb/s but the voltage is lower and that's more important than better bandwidth because I believe that this is the proof that a stable FSB 500MHz should be possible with our ASUS Rampage Formula with a new BIOS. ;)
Q9650@4.05GHz - DDR 1199MHz - tRD 6 - Ai Clock Twister Moderate - tREF 16383T
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/q...RD6-tREF-2.jpg
Q9650@4.05GHz - DDR 1199MHz - tRD 6 - Ai Clock Twister Lighter - tREF 16383T
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/q...RD6-tREF-3.jpg
My favourite stress test. A few hours Prime95 and Unreal Tournament 2004 together to check stability with the new settings.
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/q...RD6-tREF-4.jpg
So 0902 bios is the best one till now?
It depends. For my system, 0802 is best. It gives me the highest stable fsb and the highest fsb for benches (510MHz).Quote:
Originally Posted by DaLiu
My final thoughts about BIOS 0902 is that I can clock it to FSB 450MHz with stock voltage and the increase in voltage you've got to use to clock it any higher is ridiculous.
The BIOS fixes the DDR >1200MHz and tRD problem but fails to satisfy me because of the FSB wall at FSB >450MHz that I think ASUS creates by not changing the strap at FSB above 450MHz. :shrug:
Hi A-Grey!
How did you manage to boot at PL6 with that high FSB?
My system cannot POST with PL lower than 7 at 460 Mhz even if I use vNB insanely high...
Does the PL also depend on what RAM I'm using or only STRAP?
Mine is 2x2GB G.Skill 4GBPI 8800 that can reach 1150-1160 stable.
I use a strap of 333 with DRAM static disabled and AI Clock Twister lighter.
I suppose that using a 400 Mhz STRAP will allow to POST at PL6 but will it be limited also by RAM?
Thank You!
Using tRD 6 is only possible with the 400MHz strap and that is going to limit your FSB to 430-435MHz if you can't run your memory stable at a higher frequency than DDR 1150-1160MHz.
The new BIOS has arrived today. :D
I've tried to flash it with ASUS EZ Flash II but the file size doesn't match. The BIOS is named Rampage-ASUS-Extreme-0002.rom.
I've already mailed back to ASUS and I've got a quick reply back not to flash it with this BIOS. They're are going to fix this later.
I think that what they are trying to do is make a BIOS that can work on both boards, the ASUS Rampage Formula and the ASUS Rampage Extreme, so they only have to work on one BIOS to fix the BIOS problems. I could be wrong though and it's just another mistake and they updated the wrong BIOS. :shrug:
can you please share it anyway? in PM if possible, so people wont try to flash it... but i want to check if there are any new options, like TREF.
I'll do that for you. ;)
Didn't you get a new GTX295 from ASUS for your 9800GX2 that was broken and still in warranty? Or wasn't it you.
Anyway check out the Nvidia section on XS and watch how EVGA tries to screw someone that has to RMA his 9800GX2.
ye i was and ill check. About bios, its totaly broken, not even tools can open it so i think they forgot to include one module. Lets hope they fix it today! It will look like totaly new mobo with bios versions in range of 000X :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Alien Grey
:yepp: A fresh start with the 000X BIOS revisions. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SoLoR
I hope this new BIOS to be successful at high fsb clocks.
I've got a picture with 20 LinX's passes at 8.5x500 (0802 bios) but didn't make it at 9x500 (3 passes only).
Great news A-Grey!!!!
I'm really excited to try this new extreme bios!!!!
Yuppie!!!
:D:D:D:clap::clap::clap:
By the way yesterday I tried to play a bit with Clock Skews...
CPU Ratio Setting [09.0]
FSB Strap to North Bridge [400]
FSB Frequency [465]
Cpu Clock Skew [Delay 400ps]
NB Clock Skew [Delay 300ps]
With these settings I reached Q9650@4185 Mhz... Rock solid tested by LinX 50 Passes.
OK i made bios 0002 bios work :) however i dont know if i would flash it, since i dont want to RMA my mobo once again... thing is you can pad it with 00 to 1fffffH (2MB) and you can flash it... it seems like it have some new functions like dual bios (WTF?!) and some other things... ill pop up few screens soon...
EDIT: you cant flash it anyway, that last missing part is bootblock... :) but im just in process of making few screens of options!
EDIT2: correction, bootblock is there, extended bootblock is not ;( i wonder if i could just copy it from 0902 :D i would seriously need eeprom programer at home so i could experiment if flash would go wrong...
Here is galery of extreme tweaker menu and dual bios function.
edit: you also see option DRAM Refresh Period aka TREF?! finaly, options are light/lighter/moderate/strong/stronger.... now just give bios we can flash ;( EBB from 0902 does not work, there should be at least checksums also corrected, but i seriously dont want to brick mobo with to much of experimenting so ill just wait :) but my fingers are itching....
edit2: skews are up to 1500ps in steps of 100. If anyone wants to know more about certain option just ask...