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Finaly I did run Prime (Thx KTE 4 Link) on my system for 8 hours with this settings:
HTT=255
CPU=11x
NB=9x
HT-LINK=1.8ghz
vCore=1.465
CPU VDDA=2.8v
vNB=1.4v
vHTT=1.3v
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7...me95830xt5.jpg
The temps are lower ~10º bcz I had to take my son to school.
http://www.geocities.com/ranger_x3/P...00257x11.5.jpg
Ok guys, I let this one run overnight. Temp 1 is CPU, Temp 2 is Mobo, Temp 3 is just random, at idle its about 49-50C, and goes to 127C when the cpu is at load, but it doesn't affect anything. The temps are a bit higher in this one because I turned the fans down to 20% cause it makes it alot easier for me to sleep through it. I never had that bsod problem that you do KTE, mine are either stable, or the computer just hates me. And don't worry, I will get some pics of my setup, I haven't forgotten that. I'm just trying to get it to run well first.
Edit: Ok, now I can't get anything higher than 257 stable. I've played around with all the voltages I can except the nb pcie pll voltage cause that means nothing to me. I'm not going to have time to do much else till tomorrow guys, and KTE I will take pictures of the setup with and without the clamshell on, I'm thinking that I'll put the 9500 in tomorrow cause it handles voltage well, much better than the others.
Yeah me too.. :( :( if that lady in the av was important to you tictac I would've kidnapped her by now just to make you mod a BIOS for us -> :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
But AMI BIOS are next to impossible to mod so far by users or I'd be able to botch something up, especially the MSI ones here. Only some AWARD BIOSes are doable. Still I'm testing and providing them feedback and am counting on MSI now, since they're working hard at it. The board has limitations hence the limited BIOS options. Otherwise this board is very near the price of the 770 BIOSTAR which has been made far better because of Polygons mods... imagine a good BIOS on this board, for its price, it'll top the 790Fx offering price:performance by far IMHO. I've played with nearly all the major 790Fx boards now and can work with and keep any one of them. TBVH I'm not after the biggest oc/bench/etc but the cheapest/pain free oc/platform/performance/stability with an AM2+, hence why I haven't ran my others boards and joined in them threads as often and chose to deal and work with the MSI, because it's the best prospect and attraction to the AM2+ platform along with 780G and BIOSTAR 770, it's a budget offering. US/CAN has them more expensive than EU/Asia though. The MSI is the dark jewel of the RD790 IMO (mainly price:offering) and once we can nail it's issues, many people will be happy and have a v.good board to get for an AM2/AM2+ for such a price = worth it.
To make it clear here's my quick take on the RD790 AM2+ boards for a prospective buyer and enthusiast with a Phenom;
Overall Criteria:
P = Price, price, price, price.
A = Availability, availability, availability.
P = Performance, performance.
S = Stability, issues, support.
L = Layout, features, ease of use.
O = Overclocking (incl. BIOS).
Excellent = :up:
Mediocre = :)
Inadequate = :(
Poor = :down:
Major Focus Point: Is it worth the cost? Worth the upgrade from AM2? Worth it over a cheaper 770/790x/790Fx? Are you actually getting what you paid for and deserve as a hardworking human needing every penny (Billionaire Gates are exempt here)?
--------------------
AM2+ MBs: Excellent boards and offerings overall. Love the well priced Intel/P35 but these affordable boards are a level better for ATi cards IMHO. YES Tri-fire and Quad-fire is coming, I can tell you that much and that is why 3/4 slots were put on these boards. No fixed timeline yet.
ASUS RD790: Too expensive FWIW, offers nothing more than others for $100 more but a slightly better BIOS. Still has BIOS issues although very good for overclocking. I would not recommend you pay for this so ASUS can become sane and drop prices to the level it's worth and to the level that makes buying it with a Phenom worthy. Phenom/Spider is a budget rig and such board prices stick out as outsiders making it unattractive. I would buy an Intel C2+P35 if you want to pay so much for a board. Buy an Abit IP35 Pro and sail away with something better than rip off ASUS Blitz Formula (check benches).
P = :down:
A = :)
P = :)
S = :)
L = :)
O = :up:
DFI RD790: Probably the best MB/BIOS for AM2+ although has way too many issues and problems, is way too expensive and scant in availability over the major markets. I like the PWM and OC on this board very much.
P = :down:
A = :down:
P = :up:
S = :(
L = :(
O = :up:
Gigabyte RD790: Best overall stable board I've seen, for day to day running, performance, oc, issues and availability. Although price is bad and RAM clocking is poor.
P = :down:
A = :)
P = :up:
S = :)
L = :)
O = :up:
Sapphire RD790: Everything the same as the DFI but I love it's colours more. :D
P = :down:
A = :down:
P = :up:
S = :(
L = :(
O = :up:
MSI RD790: This board is IME still one of the best RD790/Phenom boards. It has far less issues than the DFI/Sapphire although they have better BIOSes. It has clocked RAM higher than the DFI/Sapphire/Gigabyte, allows more VDIMM too. A few more BIOS options and tweaks and it'll be close to topping the chart and yet look at the price, features, layout, cooling, design and respective performance: +390-500HT.
P = :up:
A = :)
P = :)
S = :)
L = :up:
O = :)
And yet I'm reserved. How many of those :) are about to be :up: ?
Personally I love the quick reboot and startup buttons on the MSI, makes life a hecka of a lot easier. But I do miss the ASUS EZ Flashtool feature and the DFI BIOS.. and the Sapphire colors... and the Gigabytes performance.. and :p:
2x CPUZ -> Memset (repeat calling the PLL)Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
Firefox-> Youtube -> 3 tabs, 3 videos playing (IMC)
Firefox -> Imageshack -> Multi image uploader -> +4 uploads (CPU+RAM)
Should do the trick just fine. ;)
Here's some tools you guys should, I advise, install to run/bench/test/compare your setups:
Phenom TLB Patch Completely Disable: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...85#post2771285
Yes it works real, restores 100% performance. I'll update once I get Phenom up again to show you the easy way to apply auto (already mentioned however);)
Catalyst 8.2 (ATI GPU's): http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx
AMD OverDrive 2.0.14 (Beta): http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads...0.14_Beta.html
Phenom Drivers/Utilities: http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/..._15259,00.html
AMD 700 series chipset Drivers/Utilities: http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_chipset.aspx
Prime95 v25.6 (main stability test): http://www.majorgeeks.com/Prime95_d4363.html
EVEREST Ultimate 4.20.1294 (Beta) (various incl. stability test): http://www.lavalys.com/beta/everestu...g0swdy7hkn.zip
-Iometer (drive benchmark): http://www.iometer.org/
DU Meter (network benchmark): http://www.hageltech.com/dumeter/
Memtest 3.6 AHCI (RAM tester): http://hcidesign.com/memtest/
*RightMark Memory Analyzer 3.7: http://cpu.rightmark.org/download.shtml
-Use the file zipped up that I'm attaching to configure Iometer and run the benchmarks.
*[includes RM RAM Stabilty Tester, RM Memory Analyzer and RM Multi-Threaded Memory Test]
The SB600 is good for I/O and HD performance, just have one capable of decent speeds with the chipset drivers installed and run I/O Meter. Watch the results. ;)
When you install something, be sure to reboot for the installation to be finalized. Also, EVEREST stability test can be used, is nifty and redesigned top to bottom now but while it will show a very unstable processor up within 5-10hours, it won't show many other forms of CPU/RAM instabilities which Orthos/Prime95/OCCT/Linpack/TAT will show within a minute and the load=temps is also much lower. On my Q6600 (now) 450x8=3600MHz for instance, the loads=temps induced;
EVEREST: 51C/52C/49C/48C
Orthos: 55C/55C/52C/52C
OCCT: 58C/57C/53C/51C
Prime95 (SF): 69C/69C/67C/67C
Linpack: 72C/72C/69C/69C
Intel TAT: 78C/78C/75C/75C
aGeoM and Oldguy932: Looking better, finally. :up:
aGeoM: Are you sure you need that high a VCore? Trust me those temps on air will be very high. Also, why is it you have the vNB and vHTT that high? Try +0.05V on HT and stock on NB, trust me, you will most likely still have it stable. ;)
Oldguy932: Run that for a day or two and you'll soon know if it's fully stable or otherwise. You can say it's stability test stable though. Then go for more, would be good. Then go for some high MHz to bench and finally move back on air afterwards to see what the highest stable you can get it.
Pics, I'm mainly interested in just the mounts and head. :)
-----------------
Just some interesting news;
780G chipset reviewed: http://translate.google.com/translat...&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2299/20080pc2.jpg
I've been waiting for this since eons. Nv is having major trouble and I've lost hope waiting for their chipsets. I'm putting my BE X2 into one of the above chipset boards... ;)
Phenom 9600 BE review: http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/...black_edition/
AMD Triple Core is mainly for the commercial sector: http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13924_1-9871416-64.html
Puma+Griffin problems? No says AMD: http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/s...leID=206503146
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/833...apsmallgk0.jpg
That's the latest (late Jan. roadmap) showing Opteron (Barcelona) B3 production in Q1 '08, what looks like early March to me, with April ~10th as the 9700/9900 OEM shipments, early May as the B3 Phenom availability and full month of May as the major shipment beginning for B3 step Opteron.
AMD has analyst :up: http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.j...leID=205901246
Tweaking Phenom 9600 BE: http://techreport.com/articles.x/14093Quote:
Advanced Micro Devices Inc. is the new Golden Boy. It lost a ton of money on special charges in the fourth quarter, does not expect to be profitable until the second half of this year and continues to act coy about disclosing details of its new asset-smart manufacturing strategy.
If these were negatives points, they didn't matter during AMD's conference call on Thursday (Jan. 17) as analysts tripped over themselves to commend the microprocessor supplier for "a great quarter; an almost breakeven quarter; on moving towards profit and profitability and; on the margin progress."
Investors who had only a few days ago driven down AMD's stock price to a new 52-week low also gave the company a big thumbs up, pushing up its shares in after-hours trading after the release of its results.
The lovefest continued Friday. By midday, AMD shares had risen more than 12 percent and were holding on to the gains even as the main market indices began to wobble as investors digested unrelated but unpleasant macroeconomic news.
AMD archrival Intel Corp. did not receive such an overwhelmingly positive response when it on Tuesday (Jan. 16) announced solid fourth quarter results that showed strong revenue and profit gains.
What did AMD do right this time? First, the company showed the first signs it can move beyond talking about its hopes to become profitable to actually achieving a milestone that has eluded it for more than five quarters.
Beyond that, however, the company managed to erase the impression that it could become seriously cash-strapped, running into a liquidity crisis that may hobble operations and prevent it from competing effectively in the market, according to analysts.
AMD's cash position improved, for instance, to $1.89 billion by the end of the fourth quarter, from $1.53 billion in the September 2007 quarter.
I'm going to get independent verfication of this because I don't think it's entirely true (as to the percieved meaning) just like what this site posted before about the TLB patch was not true. I'm working with chipset/processor/motherboard vendors to know exactly what they're saying. FWIW if AMD had said the above to MSI then you couldn't have seen any TLB Patch Disabled option at all in any BIOS (like at the start, unlike how they've now implemented them and are working hard to implement it better). Who do you think is helping us get better BIOSes and working systems as I'm requesting if not AMD? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TR
This is inline with what I know, however, the buttons are not just for the patch, they boost performance on a system with no patch and patch is not completely disabled with those buttons yet. MB BIOS engineers are still working on that issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by TR
We know Q6600 is clock for clock better than a Phenom overall. There are real-life area's where Phenom will shine though, not just synthetic memory bandwidth numbers which mean nothing, but in the arena of RAM+MCH Vs RAM+IMC performance, i.e:
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3822/winc2qow9.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9127/wink10vh1.jpg
At 3300MHz on C2Q, it will be behind much esp. if I clock the RAM sub-1066. Another usefulness is x264 encoding/decoding and encryption/decryption you guys can make use of. These are real-life useful scenarios as I'm sure all but the minority few one-sided quacks will realize.
(by quacks I mean, literal blind sheepism and failing to see anything but perfection/exaggeration/embellishment for your pontiff 'amor' while attacking/cursing/FUD spreading/lying/slandering on the opposition of your 'amor' = senseless being. Other than that, if you leave others alone peacefully without harming them for nothing or the constant blind trite + trolling, there is no problem in you liking Nike a little more than Adidas, or McD's over DFC -> to each his own. Personally I don't have personal feelings for companies to be frank apart from by my/friends experience/knowledge on them)
A personal note: I strongly recommend you to test the BIOSes, Phenom, software and AOD very much, everything as much and thoroughly as possible and don't sit back. Have any suggestions? Make them. All products depend on user feedback and so does software, as none can improve a tid bit without it. I am only a tester, you are the buyers who will be stuck with these systems. If you want things to improve in stability, performance and options, then you will need to do some testing with effort and provide me the feedback. I can then forward it on to the proper channels who can do something about it as they have done so far (thank you) rather than sit back apathetic and we moan and hue loud cries with laments in angst. So far we have made much progress to be honest. Take advantage of this interactive benefit you have, as while I can liaise with AMD+MSI, you won't find such an easy gift and support with Intel+MB MFG whatsoever apart from the slight bit when Intel choose Charles+Francois to hype a poor expensive offering and break records. We bought Penryns, some of us at XS and at my work place contacted Intel because of their bad QC in their Penryn for temperature problems and they didn't even respond, which is rude and ignorant. Even worse my P35 Gigabyte board still does not support Penryn, no POST, but worse, no support or reply. CPU/MB MFG's don't provide such excellent support and communication very often. Use the options you have wisely and beneficially and be grateful to those who deserve it (not me). :)
Please test EVEREST/AOD and provide me the feedback. I'll pass it on where something will and can be done about it and where it needs to be if you want improvements and to have an excellent end product. You paid for the items (I didn't :p:).
Use AOD stability tester, it is very good if you can get it working. It is designed by a processor MFG DAMMIT. Who else knows what a stable processor is if not them? But only use it on the P0H BIOS with MSI RD790 (others give problems), it should give you no problems and work fine (let me know if it does).
Thank you.
Why though? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
Hi KTE
The reason of high voltages, have to do with the reboot problems reported, this board boots fine with less voltages but if after program install it ask for reboot, the board refuse to boot and after a reset shows overclocking failure.
After playing around with all settings the ones I used was the best ones for that problem, anyway that was the last run on that board, I send it back to shop bcz I had order the Wifi/Ap version and they had send the normal Deluxe, I had to wait till now bcz shop closed for holidays, got my cash back and I will order another board, ATM and after the ASUS experience (OC/BIOS/LAYOUT) don't know witch one to order, but must be with eeprom removable since I like to mess with bios, and with the MSI I can't (I have an Serial cable 2 SPI chip but no program I know recognize it). That was the reason I bough ASUS, to be able to recover from a bad flash/bios.
About ASUS layout you can't use 4 dual slot graphic cards, like the 2 I got (with MSI it's possible) SATA ports are well placed and horizontal connection is cool, if MSI had those it will be "almost" :p: perfect.
On the MSI side I can't use the Power/Reset buttons bcz 2nd card are on top.
ATM I'm using the MSI still have 1.31 bios, just plugged CPU and all the staff, 2800Mhz without enter in CMOS setup, need to check the settings I left couple weeks ago :)
BTW you deserve that free parts you are receiving, you are doing an real good job, and I'm sure like me others are buying RD790 systems relying on your expertise, including tictac, polygon and others.
I'm grateful to all of you guys, keep it up :clap:
KTE you had stated that the random freezes where NB related? I think it's more cpu related is the reason I ask.
Did not work. Blanker lottery style said. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...73#post2767073
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...54#post2766954
Yeah, it is nice that I finally got closer to my air clocks, but I just can't figure out what's going on now to keep me from getting any higher stable. I have a feeling it might be something around the cpu that doesn't like the cold rather than the cpu, I felt to the side of the mount towards the ram and the board was cold, but I dunno if that means anything. My last tricks to try are going to be lowering the nb and ht-link, but I don't think it'll work, although increasing the ht voltage did help stability a slight bit at 259, got me to the 3rd iteration of 8k instead of the second. I am going to put the 9500 under before I switch back to air, its just that I use the XP-90c with the vantec tornado, and 50 dba is not pleasant sounding, which is why I bought the vapo in the first place. Cold temps, future proof, and can be made relatively quiet. I wish I had more voltage readings, would make everything a heck of alot easier tweaking-wise.
I will tell you what the error I'm experiencing is, if anyone can help then please do so because I've tried near enough everything and I can't fix it. I have 6 drives here and all are full of OSes with none I can delete so I'm stuck. Phenom system is still no boot (OS). :(
I can use the system though as it's not in error apart from the drive, I'm running a LiveCD of Ubuntu with the Phneom system right now and was running UBDC4Win with it earlier.
It's 0x7b 0xC000034 STOP error at bootup exactly when the Windows XP loading screen should appear.
The error decodes to "Inaccessible Boot Drive" i.e.
Cause: I did nothing but a reboot after using AOD and since then it is giving me this error. It is something drive related. I installed no software/drivers anew since over 2 tweaks apart from Catalyst 8.32 2 days ago so it can't be driver related either.Quote:
The Stop 0x7B message indicates that Windows XP has lost access to the system partition or boot volume during the startup process. Installing incorrect device drivers when installing or upgrading storage adapter hardware typically causes stop 0x7B errors. Stop 0x7B errors could also indicate possible virus infection.
The second parameter is very important because it can indicate whether the 0x7B Stop message was caused by file system issues or problems with storage hardware and drivers. Values of 0xC000034 or 0xC000000E typically indicate:
• Disks or storage controllers that are failing, defective, or improperly configured.
• Storage-related
Steps taken to resolve:
-It is not a registry error since I have replaced the registry with a known working one and a new one and I still get the same error far before the registry is called.
-I have removed all extra drivers and it still will not boot.
-It's not the SATA port nor the PSU connector.
-The Boot.ini is perfect as before.
-Pagefile is good as before.
-Drive has zero fragmentation or checkdisk errors and works with other systems fully (SMART status is very healthy).
-It may be the MBR, but that should signal a different error. I'm reluctant to try this as I may get a no boot situation totally.
-I have tried a XP Repair, no luck.
:( :confused:
Hmm I can boot and run some benches at 2832MHz and have only given it upto 1.445V yet and it was unstable. Maybe I should increase the volts too?Quote:
Originally Posted by aGeoM
Yeah for Gfx MSI board is better but the SATA ports layout, I have a different taste due to my setup. ;)Quote:
About ASUS layout you can't use 4 dual slot graphic cards, like the 2 I got (with MSI it's possible) SATA ports are well placed and horizontal connection is cool, if MSI had those it will be "almost" :p: perfect.
Which cards?Quote:
On the MSI side I can't use the Power/Reset buttons bcz 2nd card are on top.
The 2nd card need to be a single slot less than 23cm to be able to use both buttons. Anything bigger than say the X1900XTX in CF will make the two buttons out of reach.
I wish... :)Quote:
BTW you deserve that free parts you are receiving, you are doing an real good job, and I'm sure like me others are buying RD790 systems relying on your expertise, including tictac, polygon and others.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...23#post2772823
Thank you for the words though.
Not necessarily. Only in specific cases where your NB has low volts for the speeds and you had given enough CPU voltage. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
Oh, I see, thanks. Pretty bad that. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
Use a DMM and measure the voltages around your board, load/idle. The ASUS I tried had a large vdroop and vdrop, the MSI doesn't though. Feed it some PLL voltage too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy932
Fixed! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Great job on getting it fixed KTE. And sadly, the only pll that gets a voltage is the nb pcie pll, nothing else.
Congrats, How?Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Yep, that's the one I'm talking about. Because the SB is where the PLL lies and that's why usually increasing PCIe a little bit (108MHz) tends to help high end stability and oc. If you try the Autoclock feature or Novice AOD Performance Mode, you'll see it tries to clock the PCIe higher up. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy932
Oh man, don't ask! What a pain. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
So many XP repairs, software reinstalls/installs (manual), bootups, swapping processors and other hardware, hours in recovery console, system restores, manual registry editing (around 20 hours stuck in there), copying/pasting/deleting over, checking, testing, manual driver deleting, driver/hard disk MBR verifying, installing/reinstalling SP2/SP3 manually (registry editing, copying files, making batch and automated files), everything done and then, I find out it's nothing that can be resolved. No Safe Mode was allowed, remember.
So the only thing I had forgotten was testing the first bootup registry and driver loading. Turned out my user profile had become corrupt by a random and rare Windows bug there since XP was first released which then disables the user Admin access to load the registry hives and boot-up, specifically the user profile. It creates random named empty profiles and starts using them in place of the original (original still intact although renamed to random chars). So I had no choice but to repair XP and then mod everything (registry/drivers/files/file paths - must have been past 1200 files alone easily) from another 2 systems to cross-check and restore my documents, software and user profiles back. Had hordes of uncountable problems, can still not install Catalyst 8.2 but have deleted everything excessive now and it's stripped down to the bare minimum goods which are fully working and easier to debug. It is now fully working even better than before with newly retrofitted registries and C:\ directory files. :D
What a nightmare. That's the worst issue I've ever faced on XP, toughest one ever to debug and fix. Very relieved, still have all software/docs there working. It really did catch me at the worst time, I was about to delete it all in a day.
Hmm have an HP laptop here whom does the same as your pc did afer reboots during automated software installation. No safemode was possible here also.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
I can fix this issue here simply by choosing use last known working profile in the boot menu.
You must have had serious causes to recover this setup. Do you have a link or error nuber at hand to that xp error from the ms support site?
Achim has kindly updated his 1st post to now show both the method which does work on all boards and it's derivative batch file method (easier+quicker): http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=171105
This works for all AM2+ systems that I've seen so far.
MSI MB/BIOS: Most of you know near enough all of the latest BIOSes have the patch either enabled without option to disable or you're provided an option to choose what you would like yourself. However, as we have noticed the patch is still enabled with either choices. Using the following setup (BIOS P0F):
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1186/11mx7.png
When you choose TLB Fix = Disabled in the BIOS and you boot-up setting AOD button = Red, you still get low performance, as below:
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/526/1stmq8.png
Why you get that is because the patch is disabled only on the first core. Hence, to completely disable it, you follow the above procedure outlined in the link. MSR registers needed to edit for the MSI RD790 are these two:
For each core:
Read MSR ->
Write MSR values ->
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8287/6thcb4.png - http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2209/10thys5.png
And now you get->
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/4558/12thha7.png
Near +170% increase. The above routine works perfectly to disable the patch. :)
BTW, that's AMD Power Monitor there, the latest version I linked earlier. Works much better. ;)
Yup, first thing I tried was LKGC but it failed as well as everything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
MS Support site doesn't have any information on this. I used to be a software dev and MS beta tester a few years ago so I have relations there and talking to a few friends who are MVP's they told me something they didn't know had happened and so only way is to reinstall because it would be too much hassle. But I digress. ;)
Reasons were, I had everything I needed migrated and installed on it temporarily and much work that I have to migrate over to another drive was installed on here for my continuous editing (PhD/science work). Don't have the CD's for those software either so I had to rescue it all. Took me 3 days non-stop.
It helps in my case, and also that random freezes, but with MSI is a different story, vCPU=1.440; vNB=1.200; vHTT=1250.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Sapphire HD3870.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Lucky man, I wish to have an uncle like yours;) , soon some MFG will realize that giving away some parts to the right guys will be more profitable than expending thousands $ in doubtful marketing campaigns.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
My Phenom 9500, sitting on my laptop covered in stickers.
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1...0101xk6.th.jpg
In the socket before anything is put on, the rods are for keeping the clamshell in place.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/8...0102ae8.th.jpg
The insulation for the top of the board is on and the cpu is all lathered up.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9...0103no0.th.jpg
The bottom of the clamshell, it doesn't look smooth, but it is, trust me.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/4...0104uo9.th.jpg
Everything put together, that orange fan is for keeping my chipset on the cool side.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/2...0105vs3.th.jpg
Sadly, this one is cold bugged. I forgot to turn on the power supply, so I turned on the vapo and it got down to -58C evap, and it wouldn't start. Thankfully it does at -21C cause thats where the startup temp happens to be. Looks like I'm going to be using the heater this time around.
KTE i know im late, but i had the same problem, it wouldnt install windows right nomater what i did, after a few full reformats i finally have XP pro working, but im scared to work on getting vista back, ill probably by a new harddrive just to get that working cause i lost everything thanks to this motherboard, and i know its the mobo cause we had the same exact problem and thats the only thing we have in common.
Can you disable a single core with a pin mod or any other method that would make the system only work off 3 cores even at start up?
So disabling the tbl fix would work on any bios that has the fix built into it?
MSI should be ble to write a bios to down core, my asus board has that option. Oh and I think my cb is in the -30C to -40C range, I'll have to check on it later.
Edit: I'm priming the 9500 at 254x11. Do you guys want an 8 hours screen or wait till I get higher?
aGeoM: I'll try higher volts. AOD is working quite flawlessly with P0F and P0H, so far.
Sapphire HD3870, yeah two in CF would block access to the buttons unfortunately. :(
Oldguy932: Thanks for the pics, pity about the CB. Don't you think that base needs some lapping and cleaning? :p:
Keep going as high as you can on that stability testing.
Manicdan: Fingers crossed, I don't want it to happen now, again. About to reboot in a few... :yepp:
jonspd: Doubt it yet, although they can add this BIOS option. Only way I've tried to disable a core is by using the Boot.ini (easily can disable any amounts of core before bootup).
Yep, disabling fix will work on all the MSI BIOSes, because the fix is the same one.
I discovered a bug earlier, it's an application bug affecting all monitoring applications but AOD when AOD is used to oc - it's temporary for CPU-Z, fixes itself after a while but most of the time it won't load the driver hence it reads wrong values. Check this out and the values it gives:
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8083/appbugskg7.png
Bug remains in all other software but in CPU-Z/AOD after 15 minutes:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6686/bug2um0.png
I believe this happens due the reason I've mentioned earlier-> opening more than on monitoring tool at the same time. I knew that was still 2550 because I had ran wPrime 32M and compared with 2530 and 2486 pics. ;)
msconfig/boot.ini/advanced options numproc?
I wish we could get a bios moder around here I think we ran of tic tac toe :D
Its giving me a steady -7C load from small fft, evap is at -39C average. I think I'm going to bump it up to 256 now. vCore is at 1.3, vCore-NB is 1.3, vNB is 1.4, ram at 2.1, and everything else is auto. If you really think lapping the head of it would do me any good I could do it, I never have bothered before though.
I lap anything copper that touches my cores :D
Where you have vCore-NB is 1.3, vNB is 1.4 i don't understand which is which vcore-nb = nb and vcore? vnb = nb vid?
vCore-NB is CPU-NB voltage, and vNB is just northbridge voltage. Oh and it looks like my 9500 maxed out at 2.8ghz on 1.3v. I wonder how much better it can do with more voltage.
Yep or I just edit the file myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
They're here but whether they can do something for this board is a different case. ;)Quote:
I wish we could get a bios moder around here I think we ran of tic tac toe :D
Oldguy932: you don't need vNB, it has nothing to do with clocking the CPU/IMC/HT/RAM. You'll be burning it up for no reason, stock will do. RD790 isn't like MCH with Intel CPU's to need any voltage. ;)
In my case, I've never needed vHT above +0.05V either, all the way to 272HT and 2596MHz.
well can you quote code me a copy of what your file would look like to disable core #3 on that line or the whole thing either way.
1
2
3-that one
4
Yea well just maybe if the b3's do something we may get a few better bios options floating around :D
Can't do that I'm afraid, can only specify core count and the OS decides which core to disable all by it's own (sequentially) as far as I'm aware. Thus 3 cores enabled would be 4th one disabled. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
MSI may add this to the BIOS yet though. The thing that'll reserve and delay it all is the rev. 2.0 of the board, once it's out, they'll focus on to that and usually quit producing much effort for the latter iteration. I hope that board gets delayed longer yet or they give us some free RMA's for it. :lol:
KTE: I hate to disagree with you Bro, but on my chip there have been a number of times where upping the vHTT to 1.20 (+0.05) wasn't enough, but bringing it up to 1.25v (+0.10) smoothed everything out... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
253x10 @ HTT of 1.20v = Unstable
253x10 @ HTT of 1.25v = Stable
1.3v didn't seem to offer anything extra, but I'm thinking that is getting close to the limit of my cores (2.53 Ghz)...
On 9600BE 1.225V is stock HT so when I mean +0.05V it's to 1.275V ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
Even when I don't mostly need it till after 2520MHz HT. For 9500 I ran 1.25V past 230HT too.
BTW Oldguy932, Phenom behavior I remember witnessing and reading about with FX60 B2 oc'ing long ago, so I searched up and found the thread. These tips apply to Phenom pretty much too, same HT, same about tRC, tRFC for high HT/clocks, same with using multi is better at cold and so on: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=90768
msi k9a2 rev2.0 available on msi site.
My bad man... :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
When you get a chance, would you mind posting the stock V's for the 9600BE, for all us Phenom Old timers with the standard version?
It would probably help my OC and maybe some others too...
Just the BE's stock V's would be cool.
I have some extra cash (tax check.. :D ), and I'm seriously thinking about buying a BE. This one seems to run very stable at 250x10x8x8. I'd just like to get some opinions on whether you folks think it's worth it, or should I just wait for B3?...
wait on b3 no doubt it's only a month or so away. Not worth it IMHO.
tictac it's been on there site for a while now...
edit for BTW gonna do some fsb testing for a few days...
also I think stock vcore on the 9600 is same as 9600be correct me if I'm wrong.
Has anyone seen one on retail yet though? I wonder what it is, I think it required another layer because of some hardware limitations.Quote:
Originally Posted by tictac
On both mine:Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
200x11.5 = 2300MHz 1.250VID 1.232V
200x9 = 1800MHz IMC 1.250V 1.232V
200x9 = 1800MHz HT 1.225V
Depends on price around your end, the purpose and the need. What are you hoping for with it which your 9500 doesn't give you? :DQuote:
I have some extra cash (tax check.. :D ), and I'm seriously thinking about buying a BE. This one seems to run very stable at 250x10x8x8. I'd just like to get some opinions on whether you folks think it's worth it, or should I just wait for B3?...
This is what I've been running all day today [next to no oc options in BIOS, so AOD]: Boot>AOD>Load Profile
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/1125/2652aodmx3.png
It can go higher. Just finished 3 hours of gaming on two cores and video encoding on the other two. But I will say, take our experimentation notes wisely. ;) Let me just quickly gather them on my 9600 BE for ya:
2nd Day: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=815
2nd Day: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=822Quote:
Boots 1.28V 2.7G, benches perfectly 1.325V 2.7G each time
3rd Day: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/....php?p=2724551Quote:
3GHz/2.9GHz 1.35V boot into Windows each time but freeze very quickly.
2.756G 1.320V idle/1.288V +6hr P95 stable, no freezes etc. Bootup each time, run, bench, test, no problems.
11 Days later: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=977Quote:
Originally Posted by 100% Stable for +7 days
12 Days later: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=996Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowest volts 100% stable
13 Days later: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=1010Quote:
Originally Posted by CPU degraded, requires more volts for 100% stable
13th Day: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=1011Quote:
Above settings is over 26hrs testing stable verified.
Today, 24th Day:Quote:
Originally Posted by CPU More Degraded
I'll have to test again but I'm mainly waiting for a new BIOS with AM2+ options to test max bench, max CPU, max HT, max NB, max RAM, max stable. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by CPU Now Even More Degraded
What is the best bios so far for phenom?
1.13, 1.31, P0E, P0H. Between them they have the best options.Quote:
Originally Posted by tictac
None has everything working good and fine yet, so no single BIOS can be labeled "best" unfortunately.
1.13 is best for oc (but does have oc issues).
P0H for best AOD functioning, for stability and hardware support.
The new one or two coming should be good bits of 1.13 combined with P0H and some new options/fixes/stability issues resolved.
Ok thanks... :up:
MSI got so many beta bios... :hehe:
You're welcome.
They should have two more soooon.... :D
Error: Installing Catalyst drivers in XP SP2 or SP3 and you get "08xxxxxx error".. it means nothing, a false code.
Resolution: You have to just go into All Users Windows profile and make a folder named Desktop. Done. ;)
Checking Idle Stability: One easy way with Phenom is to fill the memory and then flush it. You can also standby and hibernate your system and check the idle stability pretty well.
ClockGen/SetFSB: One thing I do very often if I want a setting to reverse back to boot-up on any system, far back, is standby or hibernate. They will reset the clocks to boot-up most of the time. ;)
AOD customization: You can hack AOD to load very quick and with minimum pages and details. I've successfully modded the files (v.basic) to load different config profiles (wrote the files with all settings) and also to only display two pages that I need, even to only display some voltages that I require and not the rest:
Attachment 72459
Attachment 72460
Works much better now. Instant load-up. :up:
EVEREST: For those who don't know, EVEREST can CPU bench from one core to four cores by clicking Parameters:
Attachment 72461
The results you can save so they're there the next time to compare with:
Attachment 72462
You just have to run the bench, highlight the new result, click on Results and choose Add Result to User List by giving it a small description (which won't appear in the main window above):
Attachment 72463
Just wanted to make sure you guys know these basics. They're useful. :)
KTE: Thanks for all the info on your BE experiences :up:
I really don't have a need so to speak, just wanted a new toy that may perform a little better.... I wonder if AMD will release BE's in the B3 stepping?
What is the lowest cpu multi anyone has used on a BE?
I would love to use AOD but I have had much better luck via bios just about all of the time...
A 9600 BE IMHO would do at least 100MHz more on the cores than your 9600. You have a pretty bad 9600, just like my first 9600, good for HT but not for CPU. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
Plus the gain by oc'ing IMC is like an additional 200MHz in many cases, so yes, there are scenarios where its better. ;)
B3 BE? I would guess no since the BE sort of models in the B3 step will be the FX CPU's.
I've had 200 x 5 using AOD v.easily, manually downclocked from 2700MHz to 1000MHz and then back up to 2600MHz again.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
Attachment 72466
Same here, always. Apart from now with the new BIOSes... it's close to flawless. :DQuote:
I would love to use AOD but I have had much better luck via bios just about all of the time...
OK
What was the lowest you could get via bios :D
also I'm 100% :mad: atm Y on earth would something be 100% stable at 2.7+ghz but want even idle at 2.6? this just doesn't make since there has to be a bios, driver, pll, vid flux, error causing the freeze. I don't understand I mean really it has got me so Hot I'm sticking with 10.5x245 with ram at 1:2 5 4 4 15 and 1960 on nb and ht for now as 247 freezes 246 hasn't yet but probably would and as you stated it's normally in firefox when it does.
Also noticed it's not a hard lock but more a graphics freeze as the memory and hd continue to be working I think....
Geezzzzzzzzzzzzz I would love for the new b3's to fix this problem but I don't see that correcting the issue at hand.
the fact of the matter is it's software/driver/bios issue not hardware which has got me alittle upset I guess.
Thats wierd Jon... Although mine wouldn't even boot at anything over 2.55, so I guess it's not all bad. ;)
I went to MicroCenter today just to look around, and they had 9600 BE's for $239. So of course I had to get one... :D
The guy let me look through them, so I picked out the newest one:
CAAWB AA 0750CPMW
I always had the feeling the MPMW's were weak, so now I guess I'll find out.
I'm going to install it tonight, so I'll let you all know how it does.
The cool thing was, I bought a 3850/256 there a couple weeks ago (because they didn't have any 3870's). Well now they do, an it was only $12 more than what I paid for the 3850, so I came home packed it up and traded up to the 3870... Not a bad deal for $12! :clap:
coolio nice thats the latest week I've seen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
nice!:clap:
Anyone have a link to the POH BIOS?
Thanks for the link KTE. Not sure how I can really warm it up though to give it the htt clocks I had before, the heater can only do so much. Is there something in the vapo I could mod to regulate power to to make it warmer, or would that just be a dumb idea?
turn the fan on the condensor down... :D
This is just a preliminary update, but it doesn't look good for the new chip... :(
Using just the multi's the best I could get was 12.5x, with everything else stock 13x was a no go. I rebooted a number of times with CPU VID ranging from 1.20 to 1.35... Nada on 13x....
IMC looked a little better. With the CPU downclocked (matching NB multi) I managed to get it up to (219x11x11x8) or 2409Mhz on both the cores and the IMC.
BUT, as soon as I brought the cores back up, even 2250 was a no-post on the IMC... Arrrrrrrrrrg........ :mad:
The HT Ref will do 250 stable, so basically, I'm right back where I was with my first chip 250x10x8x8. Granted, I had a couple months to tweak the old one but it really doesn't look like theres a whole lot more to be had. I was really hoping for at least 13x using just the multis....
Do you folks have a system for testing cores individually? AOD doesn't seem to be well suited for the task..
Here you go.Quote:
Originally Posted by jesteronyer6
I'll put my BE back in to test what the guy in the link found. Not gonna promise anything though.
I, out of forgetfulness, chose the 1:2 800RAM option using a BIOS which didn't allow it and was stuck with no POST for many hours.
I have noticed there is a problem with Phenom and/or MSI RD790:
When you use a BIOS which only uses the 1:2 1066 mode, the system after Clear CMOS will not POST until you only install one module of RAM and POST. I haven't tried verifying if this problem occurs with BIOSes defaulting to 800RAM on boot-up.
Attachment 72499Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
That was lowest with this BIOS. With another BIOS which let's you drop CPU/HT/NB/RAM/Volts it will be much much lower, i.e. 800CPU/200HT/1000NB/667RAM at low volts. I've had 0.9V at 1600 before, so it should be much lower.
Hehe, yep, same things happens here. Right now I'm using 2626 rather than 2652 which froze after 42 hours uptime in Firefox even though 2756MHz was found to be 100% stable for a 178 hours before. :shakes:Quote:
also I'm 100% :mad: atm Y on earth would something be 100% stable at 2.7+ghz but want even idle at 2.6? this just doesn't make since there has to be a bios, driver, pll, vid flux, error causing the freeze. I don't understand I mean really it has got me so Hot I'm sticking with 10.5x245 with ram at 1:2 5 4 4 15 and 1960 on nb and ht for now as 247 freezes 246 hasn't yet but probably would and as you stated it's normally in firefox when it does.
Phenom freezing occurs by first, the applications freezing up (CPU data flow stops) and then the mouse and keyboard (I/O) after many movements will also freeze (so your GPU is actually last).
I would check your stability again using the exact settings you tested stable before (check for 2-3 days continuous). Look at my above posts, system degrades quick even with low volts when oc'd, especially the IMC. Running plus 1900 with insufficient voltage tends to make it degrade after 7-20 days of stress and use. Typically, that causes degrading in even the CPU and you'd need new settings to get stable.
So far, around 24 hours uptime, 2626 is going well.
So would I, but... which problem does Phenom have at stock exactly :DQuote:
Geezzzzzzzzzzzzz I would love for the new b3's to fix this problem but I don't see that correcting the issue at hand.
All I can tell you is, it won't be a driver/BIOS/software issue unless it happens even at stock and for many users. The fact that my chip does it at different settings to yours and others means it's actually a CPU doing really.Quote:
the fact of the matter is it's software/driver/bios issue not hardware which has got me alittle upset I guess.
It can however be a driver/software/BIOS issue if you opened or used AOD after booting. But you can find this out by booting and not using it. ;)
Wow, nice, but isn't that kinda expensive :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
You guys are too rich for me :p:
Well, give it some time, I'd like to see what is happening here. Initially, it would seem the earliest batches were the best. Before 0744 especially.Quote:
CAAWB AA 0750CPMW
Use Chill Control to setup the boot/shutdown temps to what you'd like and set the fanspeeds low/heaters high if you want higher temps in this section. Should be good. VPLS can handle 240W heatload at around -30C, and would be dipping sub -49C with low heatloads, low heater and high fanspeeds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy932
Too low VID/Volts really, that's what I would expect. Try 1.40VID/Auto volts and set it to 200x13, stock all else. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
So, did you feed it around 1.35VID and check out if you can hit 2400MHz stable? Bench/Stability test it. You'll need much more time yet.Quote:
IMC looked a little better. With the CPU downclocked (matching NB multi) I managed to get it up to (219x11x11x8) or 2409Mhz on both the cores and the IMC.
Why not? Use P0H BIOS and AOD should work very fine, not with 1.13 though. Unless you're on Vista, then I'd not think about AOD just yet. ;)Quote:
Do you folks have a system for testing cores individually? AOD doesn't seem to be well suited for the task..
Unfortunately I haven't found anything but AOD for in Windows oc yet and the BIOS doesn't yet have separate core options. I know guys running the ASUS RD790 do. I am hoping MSI can get a good release BIOS out now, we've waited long enough. :(
AOD with P0H should work flawlessly. Unload modules you don't need and run it. I've even ran the stability tester many times without fail or problems.
One known problem is, change voltages on a separate occasion to speeds, as only one gets changed properly and the other may reset itself and give you a frozen core.
Ok, the BE is just doing the same thing as before. Anything higher than 206*13.5 will not boot into windows. No multi higher than 13.5 will boot to windows. It mostly just restarts when it gets to the point of the os loading, but on rare occasions it shows up but then freezes. Its just purely frustrating at this point.
KTE, The price was the same as New Egg.. I'm certainly not rich (Tax Return). The American Dollar just ain't what it used to be $239 is actually pretty cheap for a brick&mortar store.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
I raised the VID to 1.40 (@ 13x), it just continually ran the Windows boot screen but it didn't crash. It seemed like progress, so I slowly inched it up to 1.45 VID same result each time even after a couple minutes of waiting (HD activity stopped).Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
I finally gave it one shot @ 1.475 Vid... That resulted in a Blue Screen "Interupt Not Received on Secondary Core"
Yeah, NB VID was @ 1.35, and it was stable enough to bench as long as it was at the same multi as the cores it was good up to 2409Mhz. The latency times on the L3 cache actually didn't improve from 2000 though, strange. :confused:Quote:
So, did you feed it around 1.35VID and check out if you can hit 2400MHz stable? Bench/Stability test it. You'll need much more time yet.
Doesn't POH have the TLB patch? Actually AOD doesn't seem to work too bad with Vista64, some of the voltage adjustments get squirley, but if you make sure they change and only do 1 at a time it's liveable...Quote:
Why not? Use P0H BIOS and AOD should work very fine, not with 1.13 though. Unless you're on Vista, then I'd not think about AOD just yet.
I actually managed to hit 2.6 in AOD... It just won't boot into windows when it's set to 13x in BIOS, actually the one time I got it to run in AOD it was at 12.5x with a higher HT Ref, IIRC...
Your right it takes a while to dial one of these in, I've not lost hope, but I was hoping for better initial results.... :rolleyes:
Yeah, that's a typical sign of the core not being able to physically do the MHz. All of mine will show the same at their limit and the limit comes instantly. My 2nd 9600 had a similar limit, 2602 was max boot but stability was around 2495 max. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
In which application?Quote:
Yeah, NB VID was @ 1.35, and it was stable enough to bench as long as it was at the same multi as the cores it was good up to 2409Mhz. The latency times on the L3 cache actually didn't improve from 2000 though, strange. :confused:
Real-life improves pretty well you know.
Can disable it in the BIOS.Quote:
Doesn't POH have the TLB patch?
Are you sure the voltages are "squirely" even at 1.25VID?Quote:
Actually AOD doesn't seem to work too bad with Vista64, some of the voltage adjustments get squirley, but if you make sure they change and only do 1 at a time it's liveable...
When you increase the VID, the voltages won't be what they read in AOD/BIOS. The voltages are mapped according to the VID, so 1.25VID gets minimum 1.232V but 1.3VID may show up as 1.232/1.24 selectable, but it will be much higher up by design.
Bad luck landing a bad chip I guess. :(
OC using 10x, 11x and 12x multi.. see how far you get.
BTW Newegg is expensive for me too... :D
I just hope the b3's when they are released hit 3.0ghz out the gate on stock cooler. If that is the case we can hope for around 3.2 which would be a great step up form the 2.6ish we are seeing.
I wish you luck dave as we all know it comes and goes and for sure takes alot more to clock one of these then your ordinary q6600.
I did notice my cpu needs .03 more vcore to run 246 more mhz on the nb at same cpu clock. I guess the reason for the vcore isn't just to control the cpu clockability but to also control the nb clocking which doesn't make much since if you as me the nb vid should be used for that but the more strain you put on the cpu the more power it needs...
I just wish we had a nice bios modder around here helping us even if it was in a different language it would do wonders I'm sure as I remember very much so on a few platforms that just the modded bios could give you around 100mhz on the older cpus...
I think if there was a way to X out core 3 we could see alot better numbers even tho the multi threaded apps would lose on there part.
so where is cheaper ?Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Does POH completly disable the patch though (ie. no performance hit)?
I understand the concept of the VID settup now, I was talking about when you change the v's in AOD, sometimes you have to go up 2 bumps to get 1 etc... And I never try to change 2 different v's at the same time, thats just asking for problems in Vista64... ;)
As for NewEgg being expensive, we don't all have an Uncle in the business... :D
I'll keep ya posted, I might be able to squeeze 20-30 more Mhz out of this one compared to my old chip.... Geeez, I've never been lucky in the chip lottery (well maybe my 3.0Ghz Opty, but thats it!)...
I thought everyone had a 3ghz opty :D
jking
You think thats funny man... I had to buy a 185 to get a 3Ghz Opty... :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
I really think I bought the same chip I had before, I've done massive testing on this tonight... Looks like I'm gonna end up with the same specs as my std 9600. :(
250x10x8x8, So far even 9x on the NB is unreachable and thats taking the NB Vid all the way up to 1.35v's...
Like Rodney Dangerfield, I get no respect/luck... :shrug:
Sigh.....
That's a big difference you're asking for there, +400-500MHz... to be frank, I don't have similar expectations at all. I think running 2.7G stable on the unlocked multi B3 for many is best I'm hoping for (for others). Firstly because these speeds are mainly a core design limitation rather than heat/voltage/process, so Intel B3>G0 scenario doesn't apply. Secondly, because with speed increases, the core Voltage/Amps and thus Power and Heat Dissipated will increase quite much. At present, there is no room for anything even plus 2.4GHz to be accepted with the current TDP's, let alone above the 9900 TDP. Thirdly and most importantly, AMD is too stuck with Barcelona and 45nm for much with Phenoms now. I see this as the best option rather than waste time over a core you'll make ultimate losses on to set you a year back in debt. I do expect a 2.8GHz FX release though, most likely late Q2. AMD is known to improve TDP/clock speeds much even with very old and limited cores and process technology compared to what they first launch. Their stepping tweaks traditionally offer good advancement in oc headroom, so who knows. It took Intel 45nm to be able to retail a dual C2 plus 3GHz.. let's see what it takes AMD to hit 3GHz and above on dual, tri and quad with this core arch., if ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
I'm the bookie, I'm wanting a large handle here... place your bets on a 3GHz K10h CPU (X2/X3/X4) release before August '08 now !!
1000/1? :shrug:
Make sure of what you're saying here ;) .. because I can tell you officially that NB voltage doesn't affect the CPU voltage/clock speeds or vice versa, just as NB PCIe voltage does not affect them and how NB HT voltage also does not affect any of them. :yepp:Quote:
I did notice my cpu needs .03 more vcore to run 246 more mhz on the nb at same cpu clock. I guess the reason for the vcore isn't just to control the cpu clockability but to also control the nb clocking which doesn't make much since if you as me the nb vid should be used for that but the more strain you put on the cpu the more power it needs...
Try doing some more long stability testing and use 1.13 BETA for it, it'll give you more clear answers. I can run 2300/2400 with 1.184V/1.325VID 100% stable (no freezing etc) just as I can run 2500/2400 with 1.272V/1.325VID 100% stable. Same with PCIe and HT clocking. The voltages fed to the NB are coming from a different source, separate VR's. All of these components being within the CPU still won't allow the voltage at the Vdd pins to affect one another. Would be a weird happening though, don't you think?
If you study BIOS modding you'll realize it's no go with MSI/AMI BIOSes so far. You can change some options but they still don't appear after the flash. No usefully successful reverse engineering yet.Quote:
I just wish we had a nice bios modder around here helping us even if it was in a different language it would do wonders I'm sure as I remember very much so on a few platforms that just the modded bios could give you around 100mhz on the older cpus...
This should be MSI's job to do as ASUS has this. Many using ASUS RD790 boards post and bench higher oc's on one/two cores, since they can individually clock cores and leave the others low. If you can have say 3GHz on 2 cores and 2.6GHz on the other two, then I think that's a pretty successful OC outcome and bodes better for AMD. Right now, I would say average stable is;Quote:
I think if there was a way to X out core 3 we could see alot better numbers even tho the multi threaded apps would lose on there part.
9500 => 2.5-2.75G
9600 => 2.55G-2.65G
9600 BE => 2.6G
No where really. :(Quote:
so where is cheaper ?
Coming from US and UK/EU being such a v.strong economy and currency, against the USD especially, it's double the price for me then what you pay. So when you have it for $240, I, here, get it cheapest bargain hunted for $305 (yes through my uncle or I'd have to pay $330 cheapest :D). AMD's getting away cheaply right now with Intel 45nm facing repeated delays, quad-core bug, volume production problems and price increases since August hype and worst, along with lower FSB than 65nm, lower top voltage limit and thus overall lower clocks for marginal benefits in most day to day situations. Otherwise at these prices, AMD wouldn't be selling much if Intel 45nm quads and even duals could even be available in proper supply at reasonable prices as they had initially advertised for months, and AMD would not be able to sustain this lineup MSRP (~$280) nor the ASP. Moving to 45nm is expensive for a while before you break-even since the tooling costs are extremely high, hence Intel isn't really in any decent situation to sell 45nm at cost or near cost price and nor is AMD with their 65nm. Right now the Q6600 looks near to as cheap as it can be for 65nm yet without cutting into the good gross profit margins but you can see it for yourself; if C2Q 2.4G was selling for $1110-880 in late Jan. '07, and around $530 by May '07, then compare that to $240 for Phenom 9600 BE, the top model. Massive price difference for starters, and yet AMD's 65nm production is much more costly overall, so in effect they needed higher prices not 3/5 lower. It doesn't give AMD's product much headroom or shelf-life either, and as you have seen the depreciation on Phenom's is massive, very quick value dropping. Intel's way is the way to cover any losses in your various lineups and make large profits at the beginning; you have to be early into the market and beat your competitor, then you sit back, price dearly and enjoy. Lack of competition allows this pricing to happen. If AMD had released this core by even May at $350 (gives them far better room for price cuts), Intel wouldn't have been allowed to carry any of that pricing, neither the major profits, and it's common to do worse under extreme pressure and little time and do very well with ample time and little pressure if the company keeps working. As of now I don't see any useful market competition.
Only on the 1st core, the other 3 will have to be disabled manually through using CrystalCPUID or RW-everything. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
Yep, this is also what I referred to: each VID has a set of fixed voltages it can allow (something like 5 or 6), nothing else is possible although AOD still shows you the whole range of voltages. These you can check out by setting a VID and choosing a voltage in the BIOS, and then booting up. They will always remain fixed for each VID (tiny fluctuations are VRM/PSU based). So the various VIDs have say for instance 5 different voltages you can choose. By choosing anything in between these voltage ranges within AOD, will make no change unless you're very close to the next actual available voltage according to the VID. Get me? ;)Quote:
I understand the concept of the VID settup now, I was talking about when you change the v's in AOD, sometimes you have to go up 2 bumps to get 1 etc...
Experiment and you'll see.
You know I buy personal systems for myself aswell. Two are back at home and one X2 BE system half complete here. Waiting for a 780G for that. ;)Quote:
As for NewEgg being expensive, we don't all have an Uncle in the business... :D
And for me, paying +$200 for a CPU is dear... I scavenge by parts very carefully. :D
Keep going yet.. a better BIOS will help at least a little.Quote:
I'll keep ya posted, I might be able to squeeze 20-30 more Mhz out of this one compared to my old chip.... Geeez, I've never been lucky in the chip lottery (well maybe my 3.0Ghz Opty, but thats it!)...
Set 12x CPU multiplier, 1.3625VID on NB, drop HT Ref. to 205 and choose 12x NB multiplier... what do you get?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
Can you drop NB multiplier to 8x with a BE? :confused:
Both of mine haven't, which was a BIOS bug.
I've been running 2640 now for over 20 hours without fail, from the only failure it will see: the random idling freezing.
Well I was going on the comparison of our platform's max speed to that of other boards. Seeing some dfi users getting around 2.7-8 then it would only be a 200-300 mhz gain on the new version :D
I'm topping the Orb any minute right now with a Phenom. Watch those data transfer limits fly out of the window. ;) ;)
Don't want to keep you waiting too long...
1) Check it out: http://www.orb.com/
2) AMD Live On Demand: http://www.amdlive.com/gb-en/about_features.aspx
3) AMD KidRocket: http://kidrocket.org/amd/
4) AMD Streamload: http://amd.streamload.com/
Check the pics of the setup and benches out here=> (hoping they work)
1) http://amd.orb.com/orb/data/download...9ffLDD&l=KTE-T
3) http://amd.orb.com/orb/data/download...HbOINl&l=KTE-T
2)
Benched XP SP2 vs Vista SP1:
http://amd.orb.com/orb/data/download...sbWm36&l=KTE-T
http://amd.orb.com/orb/data/download...jESt5F&l=KTE-T
http://amd.orb.com/orb/data/download...EDxkch&l=KTE-T
4) 25GB
What did you think I was talking about? :p:
Those are some new AMD ventures. Easy way to send/receive/access anything on your devices for free and very hassle free too, logs in auto if setup and works very well with 25GB online free storage. Only AMD processors can run this all by the way and it's free. My uncles little son just played his fav. game using KidRocket. Quite nifty, he loved it. It's many idea's around combined into one.
Only downside from initial trials was... the loading/uploading is a little slower than I would like. :)
Hello all, i'm actually testing any 9600BE, and i'm experiencing a strange Phenomen :D
My 9600BE overclocks better when it's hot.
With my Thermaright 90 ultra with fan 13x200 is a no go, vista won't boot (cpu temp is around 40° idle).
When i unplug the fan the temp is raising to 70° idle so i can boot @ 2.6ghz
The best frequency i can boot is around 100° idle, and vista boot @ 2.7Ghz.
Anyone can try to increase the temps and see if the overclock is better ?
I assume it's really strange ...
That makes sense cause when mine are on the vapo they don't clock nearly as well as on air.
tis kinda funny I think I had better results on my stock cooler :D
not really gonna test it as heating up the whole system may harm other parts....
has anyone tried the new ati chipset drivers msi has on there page for this board?
5 days old what's wrong with you people not keeping us up to day or did I miss the post :D
http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?f...1&prod_no=1332
I'll try that KTE and let ya know. The main reason I seem to get better results (at least in my head) with a 250 HT is it keeps my memory @ spec, maybe it's just old habit from the X2. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
As far as the 8x NB, this chip WILL do it, at least AOD and CPU-z says that it does. IIRC, it will go down to 7x as well. I can post some screenies if you want.... Were you trying it on 1.13 Bios? Thats what I'm still running..
I DL'd them Jon, when they went to load it looked like it was just the Cat 8.2 drivers though so I cancelled the install. If you install them let me know if I missed something, and if it helped... :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
Is it just me, or does it seem like the NIC drivers have some problems?
If I really want to test stability, seems like opening 4-5 tabs in IE and flipping back and forth or opening attachments/pics will cause a crash if the system is the least bit unstable.
aggreed on the nic and interwed problem.
was gonna wait to see if KTE would tell what was in the driver pack as I dont like being the guinea pig. I dont think there just the cat drivers tho as they are for the ati chipset. which IMO would be the system drivers not the gpu drivers tho I could be wrong.
Well KTE... That worked man! :D
I already knew it would OC pretty well as long as I kept it at the same multi as the CPU, don't know why I gave up on that idea so quick... :rolleyes:
Thanks for reminding me to play with that :up:
I tried to run a 1M superpi though, and it kept erroring, mabey 1.375 NB?
Or.... Maybe 250x10x10x8, that would be pretty sweet if I could get that to run. ;)
BTW, Looks like your ORB links don't work unless your machine is running. Gives the message "ERROR: Tell your friend to turn their machine on"
lol @ error IMO 1.375 is kinda high unless your going for 2.6ghz on the nb. I'm at 2200 with 1.288
You guys on Vista will get lower HT clocks than on XP. Vista induces a HT wall itself, well known since Kyosen's tests with Barcelona (I've tried it, I know Lightman has aswell). 234-250 is it's best limit.
:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by misteroadster
Nothing against what you observe but physically that doesn't make sense. None of mine even booted 55C. Maybe your sensors are fudged and what it shows you as 70C is actually 20C. :stick: :D
100C real boot => no way. Dead chip over 80C real ran, TCC itself shuts down the chip auto at 70C -ish and it has a separate monitoring diode than the core readouts (hottest part). This looks like a case of fudged sensors, so far.
Tell me what your ambient temps are idling?
I'll try it tonight but there is a very large chance of having a dead chip this way. Basic electrical engineering (physics actually) decides that the chip will have a heat limit beyond which it will malfunction and become damaged. AMD has certified this as 70C, so it will be around that region for all these chips no doubt.Quote:
Anyone can try to increase the temps and see if the overclock is better ?
Cat 8.2 I linked earlier ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
The chipset drivers are in every Catalyst release. Thanks for the link though.
You can try both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
One setting you can keep for running the 1:2 divider for now and another when the new BIOS with some of these FID/DID options returns, so you can then run 1:2.66 divider with that setting then.
Yeah I tried it on both BE's with that BIOS, no POST (stock everything). I had to do a deep clear CMOS routine or no boot each time. Tried it many times over the last 2 months. If yours does POST then obviously it has it working. I'm waiting for a decent BIOS because that 1.13 BIOS still had many bugs which can make your OC confusing and limited (inconsistent), so a new one where all of you can drop from 9x NB multi will show me whether it's my chip which was hardware limited or the BIOS.Quote:
As far as the 8x NB, this chip WILL do it, at least AOD and CPU-z says that it does. IIRC, it will go down to 7x as well. I can post some screenies if you want.... Were you trying it on 1.13 Bios?
That's why I've still not tested the HT ref. singled out. My NB is always 9x or above.
I usually run Winbench 2000 Quality test to find the tiny instabilities after real stability testing is passed, and if that passes I first try the Firefox routine and then move on to downloading a video and repeat playing it back using VLC player and going away (6-20 hours). When I come back, that shows me whether the system is undergoing the "idle instability" disorder very well. ;)Quote:
Is it just me, or does it seem like the NIC drivers have some problems?
If I really want to test stability, seems like opening 4-5 tabs in IE and flipping back and forth or opening attachments/pics will cause a crash if the system is the least bit unstable.
My current setup (2640) doesn't have this problems for well over 35 hours testing now. Looks like it's time to move up a notch. :)
I haven't experienced any NIC problems BTW, in fact this system gives me the best network connection and ping so far hence why I like to use it over the others. My Q6600 system gives me a very poor net connection for a driver related reason pretty obviously and doesn't let me connect using MSN/Trillian (both brand new OS installs); continuous source of frustration to me.
The servers were too slow, most were downloading at 3.5KB/s for a 195MB file. Server 5 is usually the quickest but that was slow till now (345KB/s now). Package traditionally contains the ATi AVIVO drivers, WDM drivers and the SB600 chipset drivers including for RAID. All the following marked in red:Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
Attachment 72583
The BE according to my experience;Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
-Runs sub 2.4GHz Nb with low volts
-Runs 2.4GHz Nb easily but requires a tad higher volts
-Runs 2.5GHz Nb but with a bigger jump in volts
-Requires high->very high volts and good cooling for above 2.53GHz NB. Sometimes maximum voltage and very good cooling. Phase/DICE/LN2 gets high Nb speeds especially.
Of course, every chip differs but this was with two separate chips.
Super Pi errors are usually memory related at those (low) CPU speeds, unless you've not given it around 1.28V CPU (which it may need).
If your chip can do 250HT stable (any multi), then try these combinations:
250x10x10x9 (IMC will have to be plus 1.4VID)
↑
[and all HT ref. in between]
↓
240x10.5x10x9
Set 1.25VID CPU, 1.416V CPU (1.392V real), 1.35VID Nb and try 240x11x10x9 too. See if it boots and runs.
Yep, thanks for the feedback. Orb works through the On Demand software installed on your PC, so you have to have it running to be connected to online. It acts as a server, so when I link anything from my system using On Demand, you're actually downloading directly from my PC. ;) ;)Quote:
BTW, Looks like your ORB links don't work unless your machine is running. Gives the message "ERROR: Tell your friend to turn their machine on"
That's why when I switch the program off it reads computer is off. They should work now... for a while, before I delete both the links and the linked source.
For over 2.45GHz Nb you need higher volts than those (on air). As you've seen before, mine needs 1.312V for 2400 Nb but after many hours that'll freeze and one notch above at 1.325V gets 2400 Nb fully stable.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
Hmm.. ok guys just checked out my RAM.
MSI RD790 seems to set the wrong [various] drive strengths (higher signal strength>more stress>more power>more heat). My RAM is rated for lower [various] drive strengths than this board is setting -> this will overheat RAM and can possibly kill them too.
Booting 1066 mode, this is what it sets Vs. what it's supposed to set:
Attachment 72591 Vs. Attachment 72592
EVEREST Vs. SPDTool
As you can see, all drive strengths at 1066 EPP profile are rated for 1.00x but the board is setting them 1.25x-1.50x. So this means to get them back to the rated, they would need to be dropped. This is much more stress on the RAM and outside of it's power spec although it does usually help much with oc'ing RAM and getting RAM stable at oc's.
To get into a little more detail, each integrated circuit cell designed using V[HSIC]HDL creates large nets which contain specific cells (driving transistor gates) driving many other gates within. Each are designed with a Drive Strength referring to the number of adjacent gates they can drive (drive power) and a 1.00x DS refers to being able to drive two gates, 2.00x is the ability to drive four gates and so on.
BTW, some updated tools, they work good:
EVEREST Ultimate 4.20 Build 1297: http://www.lavalys.com/beta/everestu...dfg3mn0cxz.zip
CPU-Z 1.44.1: http://www.cpuid.com/download/cpuz_144.zip
HWMonitor 1.07: http://www.cpuid.com/download/HWMonitor_107.zip
CPU-Z now detects voltages well and EVEREST is benchmarking Phenom a little higher. ;)
I can assure you the temps i'd said are accurate, at 90° the heatsink was really hot, i've even seen 120°c while i was priming, but after the motherboard shutdown. I assume it's really strange but it's for real. I know i'm crazy :DQuote:
Originally Posted by KTE
P.S : The chip is still alive ;)
You're running the MSI K9A2 Platinum?Quote:
Originally Posted by misteroadster
Which BIOS are you running?
As I asked earlier, can you post your idle temp at stock speeds/volts with yuor normal fan on that heatsink?
First open up AOD Voltage/Temp monitor section, along with HWMonitor I linked above, with CoreTemp and then an EVEREST Sensor section and capture the screenshot with them all on. Post that back please. :)
I just had a hang after many hours. :(
I'll tell you how it happened: I Memtest'ed and then Prime95 tested
2652MHz 1.25VID 1.416V
1836MHz NB/HT stock volts
544MHz RAM @ tRC 11 and 75ns.
Previously I had ran tRC 14 and tRFC 105ns for over 24 hours at that setup. They passed so I dropped the tRFC from 105ns for both DIMMs to 75ns and tRC from 14 to 11. Inside 55minutes it hung whilst just changing tabs in Fx. When I took a cursory look at the power, it had shot up to 201W AC, whilst idling it was 114W AC. Thus it means the cores were actually loaded.
You would categorize this as a hard-lock, a CPU hang rather than freezing.
This is not making any sense to me, this just seems like a core bug to me rather than the core instability itself. I've just never seen this happen in all oc'ing and testing since 1995 and this isn't how a CPU functions unless it's bugged above a MHz range. There are quite a few errata's documented in the revision guide which can cause this behavior though.
I mean, how would AMD check for instability? They can run all the tools we have and still won't catch it unless they tested each chip for at least 7 days, including idling for over 2 days. I'm not sure what do check here.
I've now booted up again with higher CPU voltages and higher tRC and 195ns tRFC. It now hung inside 20 minutes.
My VCore was fluctuating from 1.432V all the way to 1.468V, although I set 1.416V BIOS (which usually gives 1.408V). My +12V rails are stable put, I really wish they had used R80 inductors on these boards. :shakes:
Now, booted 1.392/1.384V at the above MHz... so far 63 minutes and going without a problem.
I also tried dropping NB FID on BIOS P0H using WPCREDIT now, as it worked on any Phenom which could drop it (even though so did 1.13).. well from 9x to 8x resulted in no POST, same as I found with any BIOS out there. Which means my Phenom BE is locked on NB multi to 9x as the lowest. :down:
I'm curios now to see if the same applies to CPU FID too.
BTW, for any of you using CrystalCPUID, the following MSR let's you change CPU VID using it (and hence CPU voltage)
MSR Number: 0xC0010070
For example,
0x0 0x3000400A = 1.150VID
0x0 0x3000300A = 1.250VID
0x0 0x3000200A = 1.350VID
And so on. ;)
So your saying that I'd get higher clocks if I managed to find a copy of winxp and installed it? Time to go look for my good ole msdn dvd's...
No i'm running an Asus Crosshair.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
At 2400Mhz and stock voltage with a TR Ultra 90, temp is 40° idle about ;)
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4...rme144myl6.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by KTE
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/211...44m2jpgws7.jpg http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/575...44m3jpgyp4.jpg
I think is not working, times are not constant..:down:
KTE so are the drivers any better?
Ah, well your board was known to give inaccurate speeds/readings many times. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by misteroadster
40C idle seems about OK to me though.... still further investigation gets this:
Any temps you see going that high above max rated without killing the chip would have to fall into that category... most likely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiery of EVEREST
Thank you! It wasn't working on mine and I had to confirm it with another AMD user. It works on Intel systems perfectly fine though.Quote:
Originally Posted by aGeoM
Been busy stability tested my chip so I don't know yet. Gaming with something which uses 35%/100% on 4 cores shows it no better so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
For synthetic benches, my score was actually a tiny bit lower with these than with Cat 8.1. I'll post later on with more bench details.
So far over a day now and 2652MHz is stable (no freezes, idled and ran a video for hours). I need this to last for over 40 hours and then I'll go up a notch.
BTW, as I stated earlier, if I put voltage above 1.42V on any MHz, it will fail and freeze soon after bootup. :(
KTE, I had a lot of cpu and cooling, i had some experience i can cut my finger if the temps are so wrong.
I'm totally sure the temp was about 100°, because i burned my finger one time by touching the heatpipe. Trust me ;)
Just wanted to let you folks know, Vista64 crashed again (due to OC)...
Wanted me to do the phone verify thing for the 3rd time (Genuine Advantage My Azz :mad:)!
Sorry, MS.. But I'm really not in the mood to spend another 20-30 minutes on the phone with someone who barely speaks English.
I'm reformatting tonight to 32Bit XP Pro, so I'm kinda starting from scratch.. :(
Ubuntu is looking better all the time! Sorry for venting on you guys, I'm just a little aggrevated...
As far as install time and such, XP seems much better.. I'll keep ya posted!
It's not you that I doubt at all but it's hard to trust your computer monitoring when the physical limit of the chip is far less. Have you read the K10h guides by AMD? 70C the TCC shuts the system down, because the chip gets damaged at and after it. I've tested this on two Phenoms, one with a thermocouple embedded within the die and it certainly did shut off before POST at 70-72C. It didn't start for a while after either.Quote:
Originally Posted by misteroadster
And now you're saying 80-120C torture tested fine on air without any chip damage, but actually allowed you more MHz? You have to understand how crazy that sounds :D
Do you have a DMM? Try measuring the heatsink base temp with a DMM when it's reading +70C chip.
Put it this way. 50C real chip temperature makes the heatsink hot to touch, and >70C would burn your finger. ;)
I'm about to try your procedure now... fingers crossed I don't blow the chip. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ons/icon11.gif
Vista is a beast. Not the ideal test platform at all. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
I'm going to install Vista Ultimate 32b or 64b one of these days. have a lot of work to do.
I just did all the testing. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by misteroadster
I tested and my results agree with yours on some accounts and differ on others.
For testing I used 1.536V at 2448MHz with only the stock HSF and no other fan (a known easy stock volts stable value).
- Firstly, I could not bootup at above 1.45V nor 1.432V no matter what.
- Secondly, I could not bootup when BIOS temp read >50C.
- Thirdly, ~63C BIOS temp made the system reboot even before POST.
So I had to set 1.3V in BIOS, bootup and then use AOD to increase volts. VCore fluctuated from 1.480V to 1.536V idling and vdroop was huge, 1.432V load.
Using stock HSF at ~1780RPM and a 120mm side attachment at 800RPM, this is what I'm idling now:
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5...21cidlelm6.png
Removing the 120mm fan, with just stock HSF at 1780RPM, idle is around 45C. This is what I idled 2-3secs after I took off the stock heatsink fan at ~1.5V 2448MHz:
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5818/nofanpy4.png
Shall we begin? :D
If I show you the whole range of temperatures, you will see, the higher the heat went, the lower the VCore went and vice versa. ;)
No fan on the stock heatsink, Prime95 after about 1 minute ->
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5417/killhm9.png
:eek:
Gack, that was the exact second I was attaching a 252CFM 5000RPM 120mm fan on there!
It still did not error, I ran SuperPi with that heat in the background once too. It is really awful that the CPU did not shut down, it had no safety mechanism. :shakes:
BUT.. the board and heatsink were untouchable above 65C EVEREST readings and MOSFETs were above 125C as the CPU started smelling burnt very strongly as soon as it hit 75C and that went really bad at 100C! (the moment I shut it off). I was standing right over the chip, smoky smell like that of burnt hard plastic. :(
But I tried overclocking at 80C and 97C... no go. Max I got before BSoD was even lower than max I could bootup with 1.4V. This is max I managed then at such a high Vcore, temps and no fan:
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/346/hotverifysp9.png
Also, a word of strong caution: DON'T TRY THIS! You'll burn your chip and blow up your MOSFETs. If you have zero fans at 22C ambient around the PWM area with this high VCore, all the PWM area of the board will be toasting and even warm up the DIMMs much more.
What's worse is... inside engineering details tell us that at >1.45V Phenom CPU even at 2300MHz on air won't be idling below 40C. It will idle a lot more.
So, that makes us conjecture "our core temps are actually a lot higher" ... :eek:
We need answers now. My chip is now idling 2C above ambient and if I take the 120mm away it'll be 20C above ambient. Say the value is 20C too little, then that means I took it to 127C and no error? :confused:
The sensor might simply scale wrong and have an too low offset. Someone should drill a hole in his phenom and put a probe in there. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
EDIT: DFI/sapphire mobo uses an extra sensor for cpu temp reading. There is an shutdown option in the bios whom can be set to 85°/90°/disabled. That option relies on the external sensor. Makes sens cuz it might be able to power off the system even if the prozessor locked up.
@KTE: What power consumption does an freezed system have in opposite to an locked one? For me a freezed system is a system with frozen input but not powered of. Power consumption lays between idle and load then.
So are we testing for max cpu speed at max temp now :D
jking I'll stick with 48c loaded...
That is not good however if the chip doesn't shut itself down.
That's true, some could. My 9500 didn't, checked how I'm supposed to. Can't modify this one, so no way to check.Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
If the scaling was wrong, you can find this out using a DMM pretty easily. Heatsink can't be 70C if the chips internally below 85C real now, can it? ;) Compare that to my heatsink temperature now, it's idling (let me check)... 27C, ambient 20C, EVEREST (etc) reads 24C. :shrug:
-------------
BTW, in case you didn't know, Dell has configured a lineup offering of tri-core and quad-core K10h products it'll be offering mainly for businesses it seems and Kyoto University recently ordered 1,664 Barcelona Opteron quad-cores for a supercomputer. ;)
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36092/135/
http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/...omputer_1.html
That's actually much better than what most expected, incl. myself. It ultimately means the major dealers and buyers don't share our outlook and it's positive for AMD.
Check out AMD's Markham Lab details here: http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36094/135/
And here's latest and best version of Memtest86+ so far, updated to support much more hardware: http://infomars.fr/forum/index.php?showtopic=1522
--------------
Also you can disable cores using CPU-Z incase you didn't know. ;) ;)
EDIT ->
I'm not sure Achim. What you describe as freeze is what I witness here and describe as that too. But I suppose hang/freeze/lockup are describing the same thing as a user observes: applications and computer stop responding and move out of user control but are still powered on, i.e. optical drive will open/close.Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
BTW, the new Cat 8.2 drivers are great. Fix many bugs, this was an update worthwhile. I'd move into it if I was you. :up:
What did your DMM probe read at 125°?Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
There is no peltier effect between IHS and the cooler i assume.
If the sensor is calibrated at 60° and the scaling is too high, it would explain too low idle and too high load temps.
Had the DMM probe near the ihs for quite a while. The gap between probe and cpu temp readings increased with higher cpu temps from 10° to 20°, never went above ~55° cpu temp.
In the server market they still have an advantage in power consumption due to not using fbdimm's. And scaling is also still better.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
I heard that some OEM's received b3 barcelonas.
EDIT: Here is an link in english saying they prepare the shipment.
http://www.cnet.com/8301-13924_1-9866698-64.html
No i did not, gonna try it I assume I can not disable core0.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Thx, gonna try em at work tomorrow, we use an HD2600XT in an CAD machine, and some apps still have open-gl issues. Hope they integrated some of their firegl fixes into 8.2.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Ocing is lengthy here atm, tring to breack the 2.5GHz wall my be has, but the freeze occures only after ~3hrs.
Welcome to the "core freezes" club! :up:Quote:
Ocing is lengthy here atm, tring to breack the 2.5GHz wall my be has, but the freeze occures only after ~3hrs.
:shakes:
Me: 2665MHz froze after a few hours. Guess how it froze?
I had nothing but the installation of WMP9 open (idling) when I was ticking file association options -> it was idling 118W, and then, first the screen background applications froze with the mouse pointer still moving, so I looked over to the power meter and it suddenly jumped to 199-200W AC and then the mouse pointer eventually froze. It gets stuck at 199-200W AC until I reboot.
This is the problem nearly all of us are facing -> we need to collaborate and hunt this down, as to why and how to alleviate it. Unfortunately many users will have to carefully test this as well as me, or we'll make no progress. Remember those settings of mine are still around 100MHz below what I have max P95/Memtest 20hr stable.
Can this be the idle clock speed fluctuation I talked about much earlier (Achim caught it too)?
I think it must be. When you oc and at higher MHz your system freezes, the same reaction typically occurs -> jump in power consumption. :(
I'll now have to open a monitoring tool and just stare at it for hours to see the various speeds when it locks up.
The MOSFETs at 75C CPU with 1.446V VCore measured 125C with the DMM. :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
Never had the right setup to measure the CPU temp.
Hmm.. the temp even from the top of the IHS I measured 11C lower than when embedded within the IHS at just idle. Don't recall load temps.Quote:
There is no peltier effect between IHS and the cooler i assume.
If the sensor is calibrated at 60° and the scaling is too high, it would explain too low idle and too high load temps.
Had the DMM probe near the ihs for quite a while. The gap between probe and cpu temp readings increased with higher cpu temps from 10° to 20°, never went above ~55° cpu temp.
AMD's 45nm quad was first sampled December and partners already have working samples. For a company rumored so in death trouble, that's pretty good. ;)Quote:
In the server market they still have an advantage in power consumption due to not using fbdimm's. And scaling is also still better.
I heard that some OEM's received b3 barcelonas.
I'll explain more in a bit.Quote:
No i did not, gonna try it I assume I can not disable core0.
Hmm mine does not freeze idling. It freezes above 2.5GHz-2.55GHz after ~3hrs. At 2.6GHz it freezes ~2hrs prime95.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
I can use very low voltages for 2.5GHz, increasing em makes no difference (also tried the voltage settings you recommended in the DFI thread).
Due to that i do not have a vdroop or voltage fluctuations above ~0.016V.
Temps are allways below 50°.
Does a higher nb multi have an positive impact on the oc capability of the core's? I did not try it with a higher nb multi till now.
It's very simple.
Using the parameter coremask you can set the number of cores to boot.
You can either use the CPU-Z.exe application Right-Click>Properties>Target area to set this or use Command Prompt like I do.
First you'll have to type the application path followed by -coremask=x.
x = the number of cores you want to have after bootup. Change this value appropriately.
So, if I want to have 4 cores showing, then I type this in the Target box of CPU-Z shortcut or in Command Prompt:
The "x" replaceable values are these:Code:"C:\Documents and Settings\Tye_2\My Documents\cpuz_144\cpuz.exe" -coremask=F
Thus when I set "C:\Documents and Settings\Tye_2\My Documents\cpuz_144\cpuz.exe" -coremask=7 and then I restarted, my system booted up as follows with 3 cores.Code:F = 1111 = 4 cores
7 = 0111 = 3 cores
3 = 0011 = 2 cores
1 = 0001 = 1 core
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/161/disabled3zq2.png
If I now want to change it to 4-cores on the next bootup, I type the following:
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1...bletechyy5.png
When it restarts, it'll restart with 4-cores as I set it. Easy really. :)
If its P95 freezing then that's just plain old instability. Usually lack of VCore/cooling.Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
If I leave 1.28V on 2.7G it fails only on core 3 after 3-4 hours repeatedly while all others pass. Moving up every notch until I get to 1.372V will fail. It needs minimum 1.372V to pass for that core, massive jump. Then as the core frequency scaling ends, you see that you reach the area of diminishing returns: massive voltage > little increase.
I can bench 2.84GHz with decent cooling but it's actually slower than 2.754GHz, because the system is past it's limits.
No way, higher NB multi will actually be tougher as your CPU Nb will require more volts and give off more heat altogether. ;)Quote:
Does a higher nb multi have an positive impact on the oc capability of the core's? I did not try it with a higher nb multi till now.
Keeping low Nb, HT, RAM is the best way to check for core limits.
So far I'm running 2665MHz again. It's not froze yet, but this time I have Memset open in view so when it does, I can see the various speed readings to determine if they are part of the cause. :yepp:
This core temperatures inconsistency is going to become an issue. Not as faulty as Penryn is so far, although AMD has admitted it and are going to try and fix this issue (by calibrating) but it is quite problematic since the temperatures are there for a reason and they help immensely to users in all fields, let alone just overclocking and finding instability and trends. Since all my 5 Phenom's and that of other users have behaved differently, it would be very meaningless and futile for anyone to try and take their core as generalized for Phenoms. Best you can say is, "my core behaved like this".
I hope some people have done research and won't be one eyed following this, because if you read the docs and/or ask AMD, it's wrong, for whatever reason. I hope the author is just mistaken.
Core Temp: http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/howitworks.html
First of all (you can ask EVEREST Devs) you only get one core temperature reading in any software, which we covered long ago.. because AMD guides only give data for you to obtain one temperature reading!Quote:
AMD chips report the temperature by a special register in the CPU's NB. Core Temp reads that register and uses a formula provided by AMD to calculate the current temperature.
The formula for the K8 is: 'Core Temp = Value - 49'.
The formula for the K10* is: 'CPU Temp** = Value / 8'.
The sensor in AMD CPUs can report temperatures between -49C and 206C.
*K10 = Phenom (Agena), Opteron (Barcelona). The K10 reports a temperature value that is relative to a certain predefined value, it doesn't report the actual processor temperature! So take that into consideration.
**CPU Temp is because the Phenom\Opteron (K10) have only one sensor per package, meaning there is only one reading per processor.
Secondly, the four cores altogether have 8 sensors not one! 6 temperature probes in the NB alone. The predetermined value is a factory calibrated value the core probes check against to determine power saving/throttling. This is old news of September when Barcelona was released, i.e. http://www.techonline.com/product/un...hood/202103647
I hope no ones gullible enough to discard all resources around and just believe the page blanket eyed. K8 and Intel info is correct though as far as my knowledge goes. :)
Temperature issue is extremely vital depending on where you are and in what situation, as knowing your PSU voltages is. You cannot diagnose far too many problems if this parameter did not exist. I think all with some sense can realize this as do those who provide the temperature readings in the first place. I only remember Intel extremists disregarding this issue with P4 to downplay the fact it had a massive temperature problem. Nevertheless, the point being, we have large variance and discrepancies between user data.
Also, obtaining chip IHS temperature is faulty and bound to be errorsome of reality! Only embedding within the core near to the Tcase probes after modifying the core IHS will lead you to the more correct values of those probes. The temperature delta between my core IHS temperature with a n-type probe and the embedded probe was almost 14C when measured idling at the same ambient and settings.
Keep this all in mind.
Haven't had time to do alot of testing, and I have to leave for work in a few but check this out....
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ID_0220_27.jpg
This is from a chip that struggled to even boot at 2.5Ghz under Vista64!
I think I'll be sticking with XP on this machine. :yepp:
The one bad thing is AOD is alot less reliable than it was under Vista, but Hey I don't mind OC'ing through BIOS...
Kinda makes me wonder about that 9600 Std. It actually did a little better under Vista than this one did, might have to stick it back in when I get done playing.
Well, that was a given for me. I had assumed you had tested it on XP too because this was a known problem (as well as many others) of Vista.
With 1.184V VCore? :eek:
You're lucky you even hit 2300MHz at those volts. I would increase that much more, like 1.4V at least if you want to see what the core can reach and then work downwards.
AOD isn't really reliable until you move over to BIOS >P0F. Since then I have not once had an error with it, whatsoever. Before that, it becomes almost a nightmare... you can make it better by switching everything off as I did so you only have one page to loadup in it.
My 2665MHz setting just froze 2 minutes ago as I came back to the PC and I've verified it wasn't clock fluctuations which froze it, but a random YouTube video playback. So now I've rebooted the same settings again but this time.. with the TLB Fix enabled. Let's see how far it goes now. ;)
I have a SERIOUS problem! :eek:
I flashed my machine to the P0H bios, using AFUD412.
Everything seemed to go OK, cleared/flashed/verified/completed sucessfully.
Now my machine won't even post....
Any suggestions, or am I just screwed...
Looks like it can be used to disable specific cores. Nice find, thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Yepp, just had to find a good starting point to go for 2.6GHz. A direct jump via multi with just upped voltages vcore 1.4 vnbcore 1.3V did not work.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Making my way with 12x212+ now by increasing the ref HT in small steps.
2.5GHz worked fine with 1.22V vcore 1.07V vnbcore. Seems 1.275V/1.2V was not enough for 2.505GHz going on with 1.3V vcore 1.2275V vnbcore atm. Will look at this point closer once I reached the cpu limit looks like a big step must be done to get over this point with my cpu.
I thought about better stability due to lesser difference between nb and cpu speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
dave
Have you reseated everything and let the board stand along in the clear cmos position for atleast an hour. Make sure your only trying 1 stick of ram. if you got a regular pci video card now would be the time to try that also. Be sure to remove any power from the board while it sets in clear cmos position and the battery.
KTE
Speaking of disabling specific cores KTE let us know if disabling core 3 (bad core via prime 99% of the time) allows for higher cpu clocking.
Straight from MSI
Looks like asus my might have a better bite of the ability to do something for there users.Quote:
MSI Tech. 02/20/2008 Like we have stated, is there going to ever be the ability to disable certain cores on the amd quad chips? The answer is no.
You would get that if you didn't flash with parameters /p /b /n /c :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
ALWAYS do this. :yepp:
I had the same problem about 2 weeks ago by this mistake. Wait a while, clear CMOS for over 30 minutes by removing the battery, leave only one DIMM in and try booting. Your best bet is to get into the BIOS, set bootup to FDD or CD-ROM drive and use something like UBCD4Win/UBCD/Linux LiveCD (etc) to load another BIOS on whatever media you flash on OR just flash this BIOS again but using the above switches. Should work fine.
Let me know if you get no POST after an hour attempting this.
You're welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
I've tried nearly all the ways to clock Phenom and found the best, quickest and most accurate understanding giver is by working your way up slowly moving from one perfectly stable setting to another. :yepp:
I usually try max valid and max benchable before this though, but after this too.
AFAIK the multipliers and PLLs are separate, hence the no effect. Otherwise, there certainly would be.Quote:
I thought about better stability due to lesser difference between nb and cpu speed.
Check out these articles.
1. The following AMD CPU's compared for power efficiency: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/proces...iew-30178.html
Unfortunately, they made a crucial mistake. They used BIOS P0F which disables the TLB Fix only on the first core and not on the other three (unless done manually). Pity, it would've been useful.Quote:
Phenom 9600 (Agena B2) 2.3GHz 65nm
Athlon X2 BE-2400 (Brisbane G2) 2.3GHz 65nm
Athlon 64 X2 4600+ (Windsor F2) 2.4GHz 90nm
Sempron 3600+ (Manila F2) 2.0GHz 90nm
2. X2 K8 and X4 K10h compared throughout the clock ranges: http://209.85.135.104/translate_c?hl...-phenom-22756/
Very useful IMO as they tried to show the max possible for Phenom by 2008 compared to what we can already have with X2 (and more really). I'm not sure about the NB though as I'm pretty sure unless they manually clocked it down, it would be 2000MHz which is 200MHz more than retail Phenoms so far. Not a large difference generally if any at all, but in memory sensitive applications, it can very well be.Quote:
Phenom 9900 (Agena B2) 65nm @ 2.2GHz/2.4GHz/2.6GHz/2.8GHz
Vs.
Athlon 64 X2 6000+ (Windsor F3) 90nm @ 2.2GHz/2.4GHz/2.6GHz/2.8GHz
Happy reading. :)
The problem with disabling only one core specific is this:Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
How does Windows label core0/1/2/3? In which rotation and manner? (diagram)
If we can find out how then we can disable the same core2 always. When Windows usually disables a core, it will do it in numerical order only, rather than picking a core in-between to disable (i.e. core 3/4). That's a limitation I've not yet surpassed yet but maybe I have and don't know how to test up on it. :shrug:
That means they've stopped major BIOS production to me and withdrew their resources elsewhere (rev2.0/P45/X48/780/790). So they're now just going to spend very light and easy resources and fixes to the present BIOSes after many months now and then. This is inline with what I'm seeing here. The last BIOS P0H is now 30 days old. If they don't produce a decent better BIOS than 1.2 out officially, I would not recommend buying the board out clear. :mad:Quote:
Straight from MSI
MSI Tech. 02/20/2008 Like we have stated, is there going to ever be the ability to disable certain cores on the amd quad chips? The answer is no.
LOL! I don't believe this :lol2:
Coming back online after January 2006 one thing you strikingly notice is... why are there so many myths and total FUD campaigns about AMD related <anything> popping up hour to hour and people trying to only spread it worse and worse into a total mess of confused lies rather than deal with it and find and relate facts? :confused:
I don't get it. Some are known brand lunatics plain out by all. They and their opinion can be ignored by anyone sane and is trite.
But a few others are also picking up on anything and just furthering some more FUD around. It seems too many are wanting and trying hard to find and concoct any excuse to spread some poor remark and abuse on AMD products as a whole. Like I should have done when my Phenom wasn't booting for 3 or so weeks at the start or how my Wolfdale didn't POST even uptil now for the last 3 weeks by saying: "It's a fudged core, AMD/Intel is selling fudged cores and ripping us off!". :rolleyes:
Please. I am getting tired of answering to misleads, misunderstandings and misconceptions due to repeated ignorance that it's not even funny anymore. At least try and understand and learn and troubleshoot a problem before jumping to a ludicrously preposterous belief.
Recently, I have just heard this in the last 4 days. A few (new to oc) users reporting AMD is selling processor with fudged 3rd cores (i.e. not stock speeds reachable).
How poor can analysis get?
Before you believe this, just step back and see if:
-You're using an AM2 motherboard
-You're using Vista
Change or get "fixed" those two above parameters if you get the "Clock Interrupt" BSoD and then come and update me if your 3rd core isn't working or if something other was the issue. :)
OR even, why not just drop in this thread and post me your Minidumps back to analyze what is causing the problem better rather than guessing conspiracy theories.
It's fine to say AMD Phenoms have a weaker one core traditionally. We have mostly experienced this. But to say they are selling faulty 3rd cores illegally which can't even reach stock MHz is gross libel, as its untrue.
Make important note. ;)
I flashed to the POH BIOS last night all went well it seemed I setup AOD to run at startup to disable TLB and then this morning my wife booted into Windows and it froze and gave a high pitched noise. I was sleeping so I told her to just turn it off and I went down stairs later and it is in a continuous post loop go's through the drive check my 2900XT red light flashes then it starts over I tried clearing the BIOS with the jumper I even took a stick of RAM out but it is stuck in this loop. I pulled the battery out of the board and unplugged the PSU and came to work any ideas?