Project Illuminated - XtremeSystems Tribute

Preface
This project WAS intended to be in part a tribute to XtremeSystems.

Now the only tribute I'm making is the contribution of yet another build log (hopefully a good one).

At first, I wanted to create a community project, w/ purchase decisions etc the result of user feedback and what not, but didn't seem to be enough interest, so I winged it (though with lots and lots of friendly help from vendors and community members alike.)

I've dubbed this Build "Illuminated". It is to be a no limits build that spares NO expense. I picked the name based on my intent to pack as many bright white LEDs, UV LEDs, and now perhaps well hidden arrays of RGB LEDs because A) they need to be used and B) I hope that the shear intensity of this build in all its brilliant glory will emulate the same white light one may or may not see upon enlightenment or perhaps death or a good dose of *pick your favorite hallucinogen* (mine's sleep deprivation - not really intentional though) :D

So let's get on with it!
RED: represents items I still need to do or buy.

General Computer Hardware

- MoBo: 1 x EVGA X58 Classified w/ NF200
- CPU: 1 x Intel i7 975 Extreme
- RAM: 3 x Corsair Dominator-GT DDR3 2000Mhz 2GB
- GPU: 3 x EVGA GeForce GTX 285
- HDD: 4 x Intel X25-M SSD 80GB (RAID0)
- PSU: 2 x SilverStone Strider ST1200

Cases

Extended Ascension CYO
- Acrylic Color: Smoke Black
- Back Panel Fan Spacing: Swiftech/HW Labs/Feser
- Back Panel Type: Horizon
- Finish: Custom Powder Coat (Frost White 90% High Gloss)
- Front Panel Fan Spacing: Swiftech/HW Labs/Feser
- Front Panel Type: Trinity
- Side 1: Big Window Panel
- Side 2: Big Window Panel
- Side 3: Triple Quad
- Custom Side Panels (In the works)

Pedestal 24 - CYO (The MM Ascension sits directly on top of this)
- Back Panel Fan Spacing Swiftech/HW Labs/Feser
- Back Panel Type Triple 120
- Bottom Panel Type Smiley
- Finish: Custom Powder Coat Color (Frost White 90% High Gloss)
- Front Panel Fan Spacing Swiftech/HW Labs/Feser
- Front Panel Type Triple Optical
- Side Panel Fan Spacing Swiftech/HW Labs/Feser
- Side 1 Panel Quad
- Side 2 Panel Quad

Custom (UN) Grills

Fan Grills
2 - 3x3 UN Designs (outside and inside of the ascension front panel) - 1/8" Aluminum
2 - 4x3 UN Designs (outside and inside of the ascension top panel) - 1/8" Aluminum
2 - 1x3 UN Designs (outside and inside of the ascension back panel)
4 - 1x1 UN Designs (outside and inside of the ascension back panel & back of motherboard tray)
1 - 1x3 UN Designs (outside of the pedestal 24 back panel)
2 - 1x4 UN Designs (outside of the pedestal 24 on the left/right side panels)

Painting & Other
Powder coated sparkly black fan grills, radiators, PSUs, waterblocks, drive bays, etc.
Custom fabricated side panels or side panel covers (partially nickel coated sparkly black)
Custom touch panel LCD display in bottom pedestal for control and monitoring of all things cooling.
UV Fiber optic lighting controlled by PIC18 series chip for various effects.
Custom milled 3 Bay Reservoirs (x2) with inbuild LCD screens
b-itspower pump covers to be powder coated as well
Other stuff. Lots and lots of other stuff.

Water Cooling Hardware
Pumps, Reservoirs, and Radiators
(Inside the Extended MM Ascension)
- 8 x MCP655 12v DC Pump - with Speed Controller
- 3 x EK Waterblocks EK-Multioption RES 400 rev.2
- 3 x EK Waterblocks EK-Multioption RES 250 rev.2
- 2 x Custom RES as mentioned above
- 3 x EK Waterblocks EK-ANTI-Cyclon
- 8 x b-itspower D5 / MCP655 Pump Mod Replacement Top
- 8 x b-itspower D5 / MCP655 Mod Kit - Black Sparkle
- 3 x Feser X-Changer Triple 120mm Xtreme Performance Radiator
- 3 x Feser X-Changer Quad 120mm Xtreme Performance Radiator

(Inside the MM Pedestal 24 stacker base attachment)
- 2 x Feser TFC Xchanger - Monsta Extreme Radiator 420/360
- 6 x TFC Triebwerk TK-122 NB-Multiframe® 120mm x 55mm Mid Speed Fan - 1800 RPM

Water Blocks
- CPU: EK Supreme LT (Nickel Coated courtesy of SNiiPE
- GPU: 3 x b-itspower GTX285 (Nickel Coated Sparkle Black) (maybe) Otherwise EK Blocks
- NB/SB/MOS: UPDATE: EK EVGA Classified full board block

Metal Connector Bits
- 20 x 1/2in. Compression Fittings for 3/4in OD Tubing
- 16 x Shining Silver Male to Male G 1/4 Fitting
- 16 x G 1/4 Shining Silver Case Top Water Fill Set
- 14 x Shining Silver Stop Fitting G 1/4
- 14 x Shining Silver Rotary 45 G 1/4
- 10 x G1/4 Silver Diamond Stop Fitting
- 9 x Shining Silver Rotary 90 Fitting
- 9 x G 1/4in. Silver Shining Fitting for 1/2in. Tubing
- 9 x Shining Silver DUAL Rotary 45 G 1/4
- 9 x Silver Shining Rotary 90-Degree G1/4 Adapter
- 8 x G 1/4in. Temperature Sensor Stop Fitting
- 8 x Aqua Computer Ball valve internal thread G 1/4
- 8 x Premium PLUS Silver Diamond Series Dual G1/4" High Flow Fitting
- 6 x G1/4" Silver Shining Male to Male Rotary Adapter
- 4 x Shining Silver Rotary T Fitting
- 4 x G 1/4 Shining Silver Triple Rotary Angle Fitting
- 4 x Shining Silver Rotary Q Fitting
- 4 x Shining G 1/4 Silver D-Plug Set for Direct Connect
- 4 x Shining G 1/4 Shining Silver Mini D-Plug Set
- 4 x G 1/4in. Silver Shining Stubby Fitting for 1/2in. Tubing
- 4 x G 1/4 Shining Silver Angle Fitting for 1/2in. Tubing (low pass)
- 2 x G 1/4 Adapter set for Eheim 1046 Pumps
- 1 x Shining Silver Y-Block With Triple Rotary

Other
- 22" x Feser Tube Active UV Hose - 1/2" ID (3/4"OD) Anti-Kink Tubing - White/UV Blue
- 22" x Feser Tube Active UV Hose - 1/2" ID (3/4"OD) Anti-Kink Tubing - Black
- 22" x Feser Tube Active UV Hose - 1/2" ID (3/4"OD) Anti-Kink Tubing - Clear/UV Blue
- 3 x Blue Laing DDC O-Ring Replacements
- 12 x EK Reservoir Aftermarket Mounts
- 5 x Feser One Non Conductive Cooling Fluid - 1000 ml - UV Clear / Blue (F1-0010)
- 9 x UN Designs Z2-Brackets
- 9 x UN Designs Absolute Pump Bracket Rev 3 for Laing DDC
- 4 x UN Designs Rad Spacers

Misc
- 2 x White Illuminated Bulgin Style "Momentary" Vandal Switch - 22mm - Black Housing - Ring Illumination
- 40 x ENERMAX CLUSTER 12CM CASE FAN TWISTER BEARING 500-1200RPM Fans (Remarkably I was able to find them for $11.00 each!)
- 1 x 4 x 2.5IN SAS/SATA RAID For 5.25IN Bay
UPDATE: I'm going to unsleeve much of my work and change the sleeving over to either murdermod white or if I can't get it soon enough this carbon fiber variety I found.
- 2 x murderMod MDPC-X Psychopack
- 6 x murderMod 4.4 Sleeve - Black
- 3 x murderMod Small Heatshrink - Black

Quick photo of some of the computer hardware.
http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0001.jpg

Status: Waiting on the last of powder coating and a few other minor things. Custom Mods are in my focus atm. More to come soon.

if you e-mail kirk i bet you that he could come up wit something just tell him what youd like itd probly be a bit better then just buying 2 psychopacks

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Originally Posted by pingpong1455

if you e-mail Kirk i bet you that he could come up wit something just tell him what youd like itd probly be a bit better then just buying 2 psychopacks

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I take it Kirk is the proprietor of MurderMod? That would be great. I'll give it a shot.
Though, I'm really hung up on the color decision with the sleeving. Solid white may contrast to much with a powder coated black mobo tray even if the rest of the case powder coated high gloss white...
Any opinions? Should I just go the traditional black sleeving route?

This is just beautiful, very detailed, you have taken time to prepare this list I appreciate it...look forward to updates will be checking each day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xaxis

I take it Kirk is the proprietor of MurderMod? That would be great. I'll give it a shot.
Though, I'm really hung up on the color decision with the sleeving. Solid white may contrast to much with a powder coated black mobo tray even if the rest of the case powder coated high gloss white...
Any opinions? Should I just go the traditional black sleeving route?

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kirk runs the u.s. murder mod store

i think nils said something about white sleeving

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Prince21

This is just beautiful, very detailed, you have taken time to prepare this list I appreciate it...look forward to updates will be checking each day.

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:)


I would like to clarify some of my intentions:

MM Pinnacle 24 - CYO (Case 1) will contain no radiators, no reservoirs, no pumps. It will house the computer hardware, provide inlet/outlet holes for cooling tubes and possibly a phase through-hole. It will have lots of white LED fans and on the interior, black rad grills that contrast with the high gloss white powder coat exterior/interior of the pinnacle 24. The case will also have it's inner motherboard tray replaced with a high gloss powder coat black tray to provide more contrast. Fans are undecided on this unit, rad grills (I'll need a matching style) 360 and 480 are undecided and needed. Suggestions welcome.

MM ...???... - CYO (Case 2) "the cooling beast". To contain at least 3 x 360 Feser rads, 3 pumps, 3 reservoirs, lots of fans, possess inlets/outlets for hooking up to exterior systems in order provide liquid cooling and eventually phase change cooling. Based on those specs I guess we can assume the MM Case needs to be at least a U2-UFO or an Ascension - CYO... any suggestions as to which configuration? Where outlets/inlets should come out, etc. I will be color coating Case 2 the same as Case 1. Anyhow, Case 1 is ordered and in production, Case 2 is where advice would be greatly appreciated. Basically an MM case oriented for the so far mentioned criteria... I'll experiment around. I would like to custom design my own schematic to have built but I don't own a copy of Solid Works... only Rhino3D... I'll have to look into that as well.

Oh, does anyone know the usage restrictions on the XtremeSystems logo? It's not like I'm manufacturing and selling anything, so I suppose no one would care if it or a modified version of it (with the word Tribute) perhaps were laser etched into a few acrylic panels for this (these builds)? If anyone gets a wild hair and wants to design the mentioned Xtreme Systems Tribute logo, I'de be honored... and of course the creator's name beneath their art would be an obvious inclusion.

Looks pretty awesome!

You would want the Z2 Bracket and the Absolute if your going to mount them to the rads.

Any questions feel free to ask.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by armeniandave

Looks pretty awesome!

You would want the Z2 Bracket and the Absolute if your going to mount them to the rads.

Any questions feel free to ask.

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Will the Z Bracket suffice in place of the Z2? I would rather get the Z2s but they seem a bit sparse. (I don't like shopping at performance-pc because they usually charge absurd shipping rates).

Last, will the Rad Spacers work with Feser Xchangers?

Thank you in advance. :)

D=

Holy molly this build will be epic.

That's a lot of fittings.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atomic ferret

That's a lot of fittings.

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Try work out the cost :rofl:

AWESOME! Can't wait for this.

Buy one murderMod kit and then get the 4.4mm refill + heatshrink.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dingdong555

AWESOME! Can't wait for this.

Buy one murderMod kit and then get the 4.4mm refill + heatshrink.

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I'm going to be sleeving 2 PSUs. Will one MurderMod kit + 4.4mm refill be enough? Or will two be closer to the mark. I'de rather overshoot than undershoot. Let me know what you think, then I'll go ahead and make the purchase.

In the mean time I'll be working on the custom MM case design. I really need to pick up a copy of the student edition of SolidWorks or some such thing... Currently doing CAD in Rhino... rambling now. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xaxis

Will the Z Bracket suffice in place of the Z2? I would rather get the Z2s but they seem a bit sparse. (I don't like shopping at performance-pc because they usually charge absurd shipping rates).

Last, will the Rad Spacers work with Feser Xchangers?

Thank you in advance. :)

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If you don't want to get them at Performance-PC's then
Sidewinder's has them also but there just not posted, email Gary and he will take care of you.

There are two different radspacers that will fit standard rads or the thermochill rads. Petra's has the anodized aluminum ones and Sidewinder's will have the powder coated black ones next week.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xaxis

I'm going to be sleeving 2 PSUs. Will one MurderMod kit + 4.4mm refill be enough? Or will two be closer to the mark. I'de rather overshoot than undershoot. Let me know what you think, then I'll go ahead and make the purchase.

In the mean time I'll be working on the custom MM case design. I really need to pick up a copy of the student edition of SolidWorks or some such thing... Currently doing CAD in Rhino... rambling now. :)

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Depends man, are you going to sleeve the cables individually or as a bunch? If it's individually, get one kit and get some refills, if you're doing the cables as a big bunch, get 2 kits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dingdong555

Depends man, are you going to sleeve the cables individually or as a bunch? If it's individually, get one kit and get some refills, if you're doing the cables as a big bunch, get 2 kits.

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Yeah, right you are. I just went ahead and bought what you recommended for the time being and I can always buy more later if the need arises. :)



QUESTION TO ANYONE WHO MIGHT KNOW: I would like to have the XtremeSystems logo laser etched onto the acrylic side panels of my MM Ascension. Does anyone know where (if possible) a larger image, vector based perhaps of the Xtreme Systems logo can be had? ... On the same note of not knowing, does anyone happen to know what MM's criteria for images submitted are? I couldn't find any information on the website...

Great details! I'm looking forward to your progression! Lots of pics, please!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CptDreadFlint

Great details! I'm looking forward to your progression! Lots of pics, please!

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+1 :up:

I believe I saw a reference before that said it was ok to use the XS logo as long as it wasn't for commercial purposes. You could ask for a vector image in the Photochop section.

This is the most expensive project i ever seen!

Sub!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CptDreadFlint

Great details! I'm looking forward to your progression! Lots of pics, please!

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(read below)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shazza

+1 :up:

I believe I saw a reference before that said it was ok to use the XS logo as long as it wasn't for commercial purposes. You could ask for a vector image in the Photochop section.

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Thanks shazza I'll look into that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hausner

This is the most expensive project i ever seen!

Sub!

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Well, I hope that as soon as I get all my stuff delivered and begin working on this build, that's not the ONLY reason you subscribed. I hope to make it as beautiful as possible too. I guess you can be a judge of that. :)

Photos (Real Soon... I Promise)
I promise lots and lots of pictures within the next couple of days (week at the most). I want to take a group shot of all the equipment being used for this project (minus the case) together, before I start taking everything apart and out to do the individual photo shoots.

Update
So It's starting to look as though I'm going to purchase a MM Pedestal 24 which will be affixed to the bottom of the already massive Extended Ascension. In it will be housed dual Monsta radiators, a pump (undecided), and reservoir (may or may not end up being installed within the pedestal... not sure, also which reservoir? ... perhaps a 4th EK reservoir mounted on the upper 3 Feser radiators like the other three... (these upper radiators are to be affixed to the 3 x 3 fan intakes on the front panel of the case)... The Pedestal and all of its components sole purpose will be to cool the NB/SB/MOS while the three radiators above will be assigned to their own video card.

The Pedestal 24 box ...
(Here's a link to to MM's Pedestal 24 for anyone that hasn't seen it: http://www.mountainmods.com/pedestal-24-p-492.html)
... with the dual Monstas: I want to get an extremely powerful pump to deal with passing all that liquid through those two monsterous (arghhh... semi-pun :shakes:) radiators. Suggestions?

The details as far as the phase change unit are still being figured/ironed out between myself and runmc. I'm hoping very much that I won't end up needing to use a SS phase change unit as apposed to a cascade, but worst case scenario, that wouldn't be all that bad either.... just not AS extreme I suppose.

im guesing that your going to have a lot of tubing so maybe one pump in one case and one pump in another in series so that flow doesn't drop

pump wise maybe 2 mcp655's with the top of your choice

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pingpong1455

im guesing that your going to have a lot of tubing so maybe one pump in one case and one pump in another in series so that flow doesn't drop

pump wise maybe 2 mcp655's with the top of your choice

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Well, I feel the tubing won't be a problem due to the manner in which I intend to organize it which is demonstrated in the below image to some extent. Mainly however this diagram will give an idea as to what I'm planning on doing with the 3 MCP655s, 3 EK Reservoirs, (UN) brackets and 3 Feser X-Changer 360 radiators. I'm planning on configuring them like so:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_8Np_PaXYxig/Sj...iagram_000.gif

I want to get an even more powerful pump to go in the below pedestal... I'm thinking about the Aquastream XT USB 12v DC Pump - Ultra Version or the
Innovatek Eheim HPPS i High Power 12V Water Pump (501280) ... I really need to research each more. .... Does anyone have any opinions or other recommendations as far as high powered pumps are concerned?

that is some real serious hardware you have there :clap:
looking forward to this built

Great looking build. Make sure you don't hit the same roadblock I wrote about in my recent topic.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=225604

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ctsoccer13

Great looking build. Make sure you don't hit the same roadblock I wrote about in my recent topic.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=225604

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Thank you for your concern, in fact I did hit this road block but I was fortunate in that Gary from sidewinder computers went above and beyond (as usual) and refunded my waterblocks. ... Also, I hear EK and Bitspower are both working on re-versions that are compatible with the new PCB layout and will be released very soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xaxis

Thank you for your concern, in fact I did hit this road block but I was fortunate in that Gary from sidewinder computers went above and beyond (as usual) and refunded my waterblocks. ... Also, I hear EK and Bitspower are both working on re-versions that are compatible with the new PCB layout and will be released very soon.

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oh im so glad to gear that ek is doing a revision on the block go EK:up:

http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0002.jpg

:( ... I'm still waiting for many cooling parts to arrive in the mail so in the mean time I put the system together on air to make sure everything is working okay. Everything DOES work, it's just that this poor system is SCREAMING AT ME to to throw some water blocks/phase change unit on it.... those poor, poor GPUs... "Help EK! Release Revisions for us! HELP!"

... Oh the humanity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xaxis

http://www.yaxis.net/images/electron...ation/0002.jpg

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Hahaha, love the ducting going on there. And is that a fan balanced upon another fan? Win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xaxis

Does anyone have any opinions or other recommendations as far as high powered pumps are concerned?

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Wow!! This is going to be something else!! Argghh!!.... Will have to wait till I'm home to see the pics! Have you considered Iwaki pumps?? RD-30??:D

At this point in time I'm considering a submerssive bath in the Mariana Trench with a force-field that some how distills the sea water... :) ... No, what I'm really considering though is attacking the FedEx driver with an EK Reservoir as a weapon so as to misdirect my bulit up rage over how long everything is taking to get here!!!! ....

Har.. No, kidding of course, could almost care less... gives me more time to buy things :D

EDIT: My brain is 90% or more obsolete parts... Probably a direct reflection of my purchase habbits.

While I continue to wait for my MM case to be fabricated and for a number of tall orders to arrive, been tooling around with a few programs in an effort to sketchup a grill design, which once chosen will be custom fabricated by (UN) Designs. I'm looking for constructive criticism, ideas, and suggestions. Don't be to hard on me, one thing I'm most certainly not is a graphics artist. NOTE: The center metal piece is as wide as it is because I intend on having 'Xtreme Systems' cut through it, or maybe something else. The reason I mention it, is that whatever is cut through it will allow more air to pass.

Candidate 1
http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0003.jpg

Whatever design decided on will hopefully end up going (2) 3x4 grills, (2) 3x3 grills, (2) 1x4 grills, (2) 1x1 grills, and 2 other rad grills that are basically a 1x3 with a 1x1 centered on and connected on top (it matches the back of the MM back panel I ordered). One out of each pair made will be powder coated with a high gloss frost white, while the other a high gloss black.

What the top grill of the MM Ascension may look like:

http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0004.jpg

About what I estimate to be 20% of my equipment came in the mail today and I'm tired of waiting for everything to start, so here are three overview photos. I'm going to start taking close ups of some of the gear, doing some assembling, and just messing around with my new toys right now. I'll have more images posted soon.

http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0005.jpg

http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0006.jpg

http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0007.jpg

(If bandwidth seems extra slow on my photos let me know and I'll switch to a different server.)

errrrr... your trying to join the ranks of queen with your rig huh? :rofl:

great looking build there... My Queen Salutes your soon to be Queen. :up:

Fantastic selection of items - looks like fun at its best! :)

It's like Christmas morning, for us computer freaks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xaxis

About what I estimate to be 20% of my equipment came in the mail today and I'm tired of waiting for everything to start, so here are three overview photos. I'm going to start taking close ups of some of the gear, doing some assembling, and just messing around with my new toys right now. I'll have more images posted soon.

http://www.yaxis.net/images/electron...ation/0007.jpg

(If bandwidth seems extra slow on my photos let me know and I'll switch to a different server.)

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Wow great selection of liquid cooling :yepp:

but i must say Holy mother of s*** that is a lot of bitspower fittings :shocked:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

errrrr... your trying to join the ranks of queen with your rig huh? :rofl:

great looking build there... My Queen Salutes your soon to be Queen. :up:

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:ROTF: I would say my Queen is more of a Princess right now, for what kind of Queen doesn't have water blocks for her 285 GTXs :( ???

Though every Queen does indeed have her day on the thrown and every day has it's impending sunset!!! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dualbrain

Fantastic selection of items - looks like fun at its best! :)

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Har... I feel like I'm 7 years old again, playing on the floor with my legos or whatever it is I used to play with when I was 7!

A few more pics:

http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0009.jpg

http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0010.jpg

http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0011.jpg

on the bitspower mod top can you use the second in as a drain ???????????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xaxis

... I used to play with when I was 7!

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i7 ? :rofl:

:P

Haruhi had her good run... 975's are still hard to come by and ive been sitting on mine for quite some time.

Elcair will dethrone Haruhi in a few months. :X

But the beauty of a Queen is its a thread ender.

The only arguments the other party has after you post your rig is "OMG u spent too much money."

:rofl:

I'll be visiting this build a few times. Should be great. Look at all those fittings. Wow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pingpong1455

on the bitspower mod top can you use the second in as a drain ???????????

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Well, I suppose you could if you wanted to. A ball valve connected to a drain port, you would want your res above the pump of course, but personally I would go a different route. I like to keep my drain/fill mechanisms more directly near the reservoir.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dualbrain

i7 ? :rofl:

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HAR HAR HARDY HAR HAR!!! :nuts: ... :D


The EK Supreme will only be around long enough for me to get my SS unit up and running... then we're going sub-ambient and beyond! The i7 975 deserves no less.
http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0012.jpg

These radiators, the aquastream, and the EK bay reservoir will have the job of cooling my NB/SB... overkill? Not at all. :D
http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0013.jpg

In regard to the following UN Designs parts I've been very fortunate, receiving personal service from both sidewinders and UN Designs to make sure I got what I needed and really really fast! (UN) designs and sidewinders actually orchestrated getting me two of the UN rad spacers at no charge and also my order was shipped for free!!! Why? The only conclusion I can come up with is those guys are awesome! Thank you much.
http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0014.jpg

I always, always, always think 12 feet of tubing will be fine, then order it, and upon receiving it a minor frustration builds within and I smash my head through the wall. .... arghh.. Need another 12 feet at least. Need more sleeving too... but white sleeving won't be around until July methinks. :(
http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0015.jpg

I'm waiting on another 20-30 bits, but I can see buying more... You see, when I buy bits, I actually think of it as a currency exchange while simultaneously being a functional purchase.
http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0016.jpg

And now the waiting game begins once again, I can do some sleeving, few other minor things... Wait... I think I here the FedEx truck now...

wait i count 4 res's check... 4 pumps.. check again.. 2 rads? Wheres the other 2?

Xaxis run your loop with me.... i think i know what your gonna do... and it might not be a great idea. :X

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

wait i count 4 res's check... 4 pumps.. check again.. 2 rads? Wheres the other 2?

Xaxis run your loop with me.... i think i know what your gonna do... and it might not be a great idea. :X

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yeah that doesant make sense either whats he planning NaeKuh?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

wait i count 4 res's check... 4 pumps.. check again.. 2 rads? Wheres the other 2?

Xaxis run your loop with me.... i think i know what your gonna do... and it might not be a great idea. :X

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3 rads have yet to be posted (3 x TFC 360s) ... the two of them that I haven't received in the mail should be here any minute according to tracking...

If you knew what I was doing I would be impressed and consider you full blown precog/telepath :) ... For I have about 3 different vague ideas concerning how I'll set up my loops... All are likely highly impractical of course (xaxis style).

One thought is... use the 3 loops up top in the ascension case to cool a single GPU each... This would be fullish in a number of ways, but I would still like to see it with my own two peepers (reason unknown) ... Then there's always the ultra-insanity-inducing complexity of 3 loops in series to cool the 3 GPUs ... This too I would like to see.

What were you thinking?

EDIT: basically the two Monstas will exist as part of a single loop with the aquastream and the bay res which will cool the NB/SB.
The 3 TFC 360s will be cooling the GPUs (in an as of yet unknown config).
Phase Change unit will be cooling the CPU... BUT until the phase is installed the CPU will be on the same loop as the NB/SB (with the monstas).

u were gonna run the Monsta on a recirculating loop, and run paralell to all your other components. <yeah which i was worried about...>

Not recomended...

You wont be able to run each card on its own loop with EK blocks. You'll run out of space to route the tubing on the middle card.

id say double up pumps and dedicate 1 loop for your gpu's. And another for your board and whatnot.

I dont think the monsta will fit in a pedistool.

Its about 1 inch too long, which is why i had martin messure it for me.

Id say ditch 2 res u have in stock or save them for another project, and run 2 EK 400's. Gpu loop dual up on the D5's for redundancy incase something happens, and also to help you mitigate the QD's.

The board run the other D5. You can set it up like EK res (hard mounted D5) + D5 + EK Res (Hard mounted D5) instead of having 3 tube res's and i think you'll keep it looking nice.

The ehiem... wanna watercool the ram and hard drives?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

u were gonna run the Monsta on a recirculating loop, and run paralell to all your other components. <yeah which i was worried about...>

Not recomended...

You wont be able to run each card on its own loop with EK blocks. You'll run out of space to route the tubing on the middle card.

id say double up pumps and dedicate 1 loop for your gpu's. And another for your board and whatnot.

I dont think the monsta will fit in a pedistool.

Its about 1 inch too long, which is why i had martin messure it for me.

Id say ditch 2 res u have in stock or save them for another project, and run 2 EK 400's. Gpu loop dual up on the D5's for redundancy incase something happens, and also to help you mitigate the QD's.

The board run the other D5. You can set it up like EK res (hard mounted D5) + D5 + EK Res (Hard mounted D5) instead of having 3 tube res's and i think you'll keep it looking nice.

When i say hardmount, i am talking about something simular to this:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...i/IMG_1335.jpg

(i'll remove that pic after you replied)

The ehiem... wanna watercool the ram and hard drives?

---

Thanks for detailed response. A couple of things. The Pedestal 24 is 9x18x24 correct? 1 Monsta rad is 17x6x4(aprox). Based on those calculations there's no reason 1 none the less two wouldn't fit. (perhaps you're speaking of the normal Pedestal and I didn't write Pedestal 24 above, I can't remember. I realize fan+shroud+rad mounting will be a trick with some alterations expected, but it's all well within the realm of fitting as far as I can tell (please show me where I error if I'm missing something.) I'll be using two quad side panels to mount both of the Monsta's on either side.

I have to say I like the idea of redundancy with my loops. I won't be ditching any of them however I can see running 2 in series for the GPUs with 1 as a backup. I have a back ground in electrical engineering so developing my own "fault/failure" controller will be a breeze. Again, good idea when it comes to redundancy. I have file server after fileserver RAIDS on RAINS and I spend a great deal of my paranoid time thinking about data integrity, kinda surprising I didn't bring it to the level of this project. Thanks. :)

"You can set it up like EK res" ... Exactly my intent with all three of upper res, D5, Fes 360 loops. The aftermarket EK mounting blocks will especially help to add stability to the towering EK reservoirs.

Again, feel free to disagree with anything I've said, I always appreciate your kind of constructive, insightful, suggestions/criticisms.

Oh yeah, one more thing... aside from the issue you thought with spacing and the monstas, why is running this seperate loop parallel with the Ehiem an issue?

Thx. :)

ahhh your right im thinking of the normal pedistool.

Also the recirculating loop.. The amount of times the water passes though the blocks must equal the time it passes though the radiators. When you split it up like that, you'll get a temp gradiant working inside your res.

Basically its okey to have more flow in your radiator loop, but your other paralell loop should not have more flow, because then your shortening the water time spent @ radiator.

Does this make sense?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

ahhh your right im thinking of the normal pedistool.

Also the recirculating loop.. The amount of times the water passes though the blocks must equal the time it passes though the radiators. When you split it up like that, you'll get a temp gradiant working inside your res.

Basically its okey to have more flow in your radiator loop, but your other paralell loop should not have more flow, because then your shortening the water time spent @ radiator.

Does this make sense?

---

What you said makes sense but let me make sure it's in the context of what I intend to do:

Within Pedestal 24 (loop 1) = Reservoir > Pump > NB/SB & CPU > Rad (Monsta) 1 > Rad (Monsta) 2 > Reservoir

Now, I wasn't intending on having any other of the top loops parallel with the bottom setup. It's a closed loop so to speak. So, it seems that the the amount of time I'll have water passing over the radiators will be indeed longer than the time it spends going over the blocks, but none the less the flow would be consistent, as in, it's not like there's ever going to be a second of time the blocks don't have water passing over them. So to me it seems only advantageous to run a loop with as many radiators extra as one wants AS LONG of course as it doesn't impede a neccessary or desired flow rate over the blocks (i.e. gotta have a pump that can handle it). Now, I do see a "temp gradient" arising but it would be a downwards gradient would it not? As in, obviously the radiators being the mechanism in which the water is cooled, the temperature will decrease over the spread of time it takes to pass through both of them....

Are we speaking of the same/similar thing? Maybe I need to take a look at some of Martin's archive files... do you have any suggestions?
thx.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xaxis

What you said makes sense but let me make sure it's in the context of what I intend to do:

Within Pedestal 24 (loop 1) = Reservoir > Pump > NB/SB & CPU > Rad (Monsta) 1 > Rad (Monsta) 2 > Reservoir

Are we speaking of the same/similar thing? Maybe I need to take a look at some of Martin's archive files... do you have any suggestions?
thx.

---

Where's your gpus?

LOL that looks like a normal loop but you only listed 1 pump... which is okey, but im wondering where the other 3 come to play :P

Lets see you have 3 d5's and 2 monstas...

EKres Assy + D5 -> Gpu 1, 2, 3 -> a regular D5 -> Monsta 1 -> EK ResAssy.

Loop 2:
EkRes Assy #2 -> board -> Monsta -> EKRes Assy.

(i would QD both loops)

You can also bring the tubing from the bottom up for a nice bling effect.

Loop3:

EK Spinner -> Ehiem -> Ram?? Hard drive?? -> Small radiator -> Ek Rad Assy.

On the monsta's i would push/pull yates, and remove the side covers so i could get more air though the radiator.

:) ... admittedly this would all be much easier to describe with a diagram/flow chart... perhaps I'll get to work on that? Then we can continue this conversation with a little more mutual footwork to rely on. Sound good?
I'll try and finish it by tonight.

LOL.... sure...

O__O

OMG

:up:

You are one rich guy...LOL all that gear must cost tones..the value of the PC must be extreme...

I hope the below images will help make clear my intent as far as my GPU loop is concerned. Note that I turned everything sideways for ease of viewing and that the actual bits I'll be using will change by the time I install it. Also, if your thinking, "hmm those reservoirs sure look unstable..." they won't be after I've installed all the corresponding UN Designs and EK mounting equipment.

http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0017.jpg

http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0018.jpg

http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0019.jpg

Loop Redundancy
I still intend on providing this 3 series loop with two hot spares for redundancy. This means I'll be purchasing 2 more D5 pumps. These spare pumps with about 50 microseconds notice will have the ability to take over in place of any failed pump. I'm implementing two just in case two of the pumps fail simultaneously so there is little chance the tri-series loop will falter. I've been working on the control logic which has been a breeze and will be housed in a tiny box and built on a tiny 1.5" x 2" PCB. It basically will be connected to three flow rate sensors that will be installed at the inlet of each pump. In the event that it detects a drop in flow rate that quantifies a dead or dieing pump, it will immediately activate a pre-primed spare. 2 valves will also activate, one directing water flow from the reservoir to the spare pump and 1 that allows water pumped though the spare pump to connect to the rest of the loop at wherever the failure point may be. ... Once I've had a chance to diagram, purchase needed parts, and finish the control schematic I'll post more details on this.

I intend on doing something similar for the second "dual monsta" loop as well as for the hybrid phase change/tec system I'm working on. (Not going to get into this now).

I'm always willing to take a critical beating related to my ideas so feel free to be frank, make suggestions, words of advice, ideas, etc. :)

wow... looking like a very nice tribute xaxis.
:up:

O - M - G!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bianco

wow... looking like a very nice tribute xaxis.
:up:

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dingdong555

O - M - G!!!!

---

Thank you both. :)

I was wondering if anyone had any ideal sources related to Electrically actuated ball valves that are sold with the intent of water cooled computers in mind or are easily modifiable enough to be integrated into a standard high flow water cooling loop like mine shown in preview below. Finding the right part is crucial when it comes to the aspect of building in pump redundancy and is holding me back from completing the controller schematic...

Also if anyone has any ideas related to series pump setups + redundancy I'm all ears.

Anyway, I've been scouring the net to be sure, but if anyone has anything to say about this or anything else really it would be appreciated.

My only thing would be to flip ur inlet/outlet layout. You'll get cooler water to the GPU's from the rad, but thats more of a personal thing b/c temps will probably be almost identical.

nonononono....

never have a pump push into a res bro

Also why do you have so many radiators.. i wanted to ask that..

any noise advantage you had by having all those rads will be taken away by your Single Stage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

nonononono....

never have a pump push into a res bro

Also why do you have so many radiators.. i wanted to ask that..

any noise advantage you had by having all those rads will be taken away by your Single Stage.

---

I've read not to push a pump into a res but I can see no reason not to, especially when I'm not actually concerned with increasing the flow rate. Maybe you have some insight on this?

Noise is irrelevant. The machine along with my other computers will be placed in a sound proof server/computer closet with environment controls.

Also, I've decided I'm going to build a hybrid tec/phase change system... It will make more since when I have time to organize everything and demonstrate the schematics I have so far. Basically I'll be able to switch from TEC to Phase via a switch... two seperate linesets will be attached to the same "condensor" block, which... ah, I'll talk more about that later.. :)

Anyhow, as far as pump into res... reasons please?

how the hell are you gonna fill with the pump outlet on the reservoir? you cant. the pump will try to draw water from its inlet and have nothing there...

also, why are you using 3 pumps for a GPU loop? FC blocks are not restrictive and I doubt you will be voltmodding so ~1gpm is perfectly adequate. - in fact as hondacitys (maybe HES but I dont think its him) recent tests have shown FC blocks can perform 95% the same with only .5gpm per block. Also d5's dont die often, in fact it is extremely rare, so I might understand a second pump for redundancy but a third, no.

I understand that you are trying to be "extreme" but 3 pumps in series for a loop with FC gpu blocks is just plain stupid.

nice looking build there bud! the only critisism id have is same as NaeKuh

why have pumps pushing into res??? its utterly pointless, because u wont get any gain atall.....if u want 3 pumps then either put them in series, or put the pumps between the radiators to stop such a big pressure drop!

having pumps feed into res's is COMPLETELY pointless!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

how the hell are you gonna fill with the pump outlet on the reservoir? you cant. the pump will try to draw water from its inlet and have nothing there...

also, why are you using 3 pumps for a GPU loop? FC blocks are not restrictive and I doubt you will be voltmodding so ~1gpm is perfectly adequate. - in fact as hondacitys (maybe HES but I dont think its him) recent tests have shown FC blocks can perform 95% the same with only .5gpm per block. Also d5's dont die often, in fact it is extremely rare, so I might understand a second pump for redundancy but a third, no.

I understand that you are trying to be "extreme" but 3 pumps in series for a loop with FC gpu blocks is just plain stupid.

---

If my understanding or intuition on this matter is correct, a system first primed (filled to full volume) with fluids, then connected as I've suggested, will have no trouble drawing liquid from the reservoir (please explain in greater detail why you feel/(perhaps know) this won't work. It seems to me if water is returning to the reservoir inlet in a loop that is fully occupied with liquid it cannot magically have "gaps" in the loop where liquid is not present. So why can't the water be drawn out downwards via the res outlet. I'll test this soon perhaps.

Your idea of stupidity is perhaps my idea of harmless fun. One thing, even if this idea is stupid it's certainly not "plain". :) Example of my kind of stupidity: (fun) ... the odds of any of my 4 16 hard drive (4x4x4[raid5]) fileservers linked with some extremely high speed infiniband cards to operate as a RAIN that sits on an array of batteries with enough juice to power the systems to rewrite and check parity on all the drives a million times over (... well 12 hours, pretty impressive for a UPS), which itself is powered entirely on solar so the only real chance of outage is at night... Also, it's contained in a faraday cage with a number of other safety precautions taken and has no internet/ethernet connection of any type... All backups take place via manually walking to the servers with the encrypted data medium, entering in a 30+ digit keycode within 4 minutes or else a home brew thermite compound will ignite and destroy every drive in the systems in about 27 seconds, not to mention the biometric authentication.... Now, I have calculated the risk metric using a couple of standards and the probability of me losing any data (excluding natural disasters as a cause or a memory lapse) is somewhere around 1: (insert number of atoms in the universe) ... however this doesn't stop me from doing it... I know it's excessive, I know it's "stupid", but it still manages to place a smile on my face every single time I think about it. You see, sometimes a lack of good reasoning creates something unexpected and if lucky, even something new. One might summarize: my reason based on reasonless reasoning resonates raisins and.... oops, guess I last track on that one... :D I tend to ask myself... why not first, without ever taking the time to answer the question. :D:D:D

Again, if you're correct about the inlet feeding issue I'll openly admit I had better flip some stuff about.

Appreciate your frankness.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exemay

nice looking build there bud! the only critisism id have is same as NaeKuh

why have pumps pushing into res??? its utterly pointless, because u wont get any gain atall.....if u want 3 pumps then either put them in series, or put the pumps between the radiators to stop such a big pressure drop!

having pumps feed into res's is COMPLETELY pointless!!

---

One point I might poke into the vast realm of pointlessness... less tubing, at least when one insists on using the equipment I am which some say is needless... Perhaps it will give me room or motivation to make a need? :)

Hard mount 2 pumps like so.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0006.jpg

you can get a cleaner appearance and ditch the second res.

The reason why i heard, and someone can double check, is i heard pump into res and you lose head pressure and flow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Hard mount 2 pumps like so.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0006.jpg

you can get a cleaner appearance and ditch the second res.

The reason why i heard, and someone can double check, is i heard pump into res and you lose head pressure and flow.

---

Best part is... I'll be able to do/try both. Ordered a number of different flow rate meters to experiment about with... :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

The reason why i heard, and someone can double check, is i heard pump into res and you lose head pressure and flow.

---

i dont think you loose pressure/flow overall....its just pointless feeding into a res because there is a massive pressure drop going into the res.... so your better off just using 1 pump

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exemay

i dont think you loose pressure/flow overall....its just pointless feeding into a res because there is a massive pressure drop going into the res.... so your better off just using 1 pump

---

Thought: MASSIVE overall reservoir. Continuation of thought: More liquid (bigger res) allows heat to diffuse much further before being reused again. No?
EDIT: btw, I agree with you, I don't think you loose pressure/flow overall either especially with the parameters I mentioned.

Wait am I seeing this right or does the top behave differently than I thought it does? res is on top of the pump outlet and the tube going to the pump inlet is at the side?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xaxis

Thought: MASSIVE overall reservoir. Continuation of thought: More liquid (bigger res) allows heat to diffuse much further before being reused again. No?

---

well not really...there is a slight relationship between dissipation and res size, but its kinda pointless using 1 huge res when u have 3 120.3 radiators!!!

if i was u id go for the 3 radiators feeding into a res, then into a pump. then into a second pump and leave it like that,

RAD>RAD>RAD>RES>PUMP>PUMP

this way u will get the benifits from having pumps in series, u wont have a pressure drop from feeding from res to rest and u will have alot of very very nice cooling form the 3 rads!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

Wait am I seeing this right or does the top behave differently than I thought it does? res is on top of the pump outlet and the tube going to the inlet is at the side?

---

Res outlet is directly on top of pump inlet. The (to be) tubes, etc on the side are indeed pump outlets.

OHHHH so the res is indeed connected to the INLET (water being sucked into the pump from the res) then that is perfectly fine - I have that on the 2 pumps in my system. - I thought the tops behaved like a normal D5 top where the outlet of the pump is at the top.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exemay

well not really...there is a slight relationship between dissipation and res size, but its kinda pointless using 1 huge res when u have 3 120.3 radiators!!!

if i was u id go for the 3 radiators feeding into a res, then into a pump. then into a second pump and leave it like that,

RAD>RAD>RAD>RES>PUMP>PUMP

this way u will get the benifits from having pumps in series, u wont have a pressure drop from feeding from res to rest and u will have alot of very very nice cooling form the 3 rads!!

---

Hmmm... I'll give this a try however I'm going to attempt to merge the reservoirs into 1.. They'll have 1 inlet, outlet... just like a singular res, but with the extra volume. so Rad>Rad>Rad>Res>Pump>Pump>Pump(why not the third?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

OHHHH so the res is indeed connected to the INLET (water being sucked into the pump from the res) then that is perfectly fine - I have that on the 2 pumps in my system. - I thought the tops behaved like a normal D5 top where the outlet of the pump is at the top.

---

If it's any consolation, I do have the Bitspower tops mounted "upside down to accomplish this" ... at least as far as the logo is concerned.

yes see I presumed you had drawn the diagrams incorrectly in the picture earlier on but that is not the case. My apologies ;)

still I say just use two pumps in series for the GPUs and you will have more than enough redundancy as long as you monitor them frequently enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xaxis

Thought: MASSIVE overall reservoir. Continuation of thought: More liquid (bigger res) allows heat to diffuse much further before being reused again. No?
EDIT: btw, I agree with you, I don't think you loose pressure/flow overall either especially with the parameters I mentioned.

---

If the rig is planned to run 24/7, then you will get no temperature gain whatsoever from adding more water to the loop. The water will (eventually) reach equilibrium just the same as if you had a T-line and no res. If you only run the machine for a few hours out of the day, then yeah, you might see gain from a huge res. But if you have the multiple loops running into and out of the same massive res, it no longer becomes a dual-loop system, just a single loop with a whole bunch of pumps.

why not run a third pump?? well, u can give it a go, im just not entirely sure u would get that much of a benefit from putting a third in there!

if u have a spare u could go for PUMP>RAD>RAD>RAD>RES>PUMP>PUMP

so that you get the pressure up going into the radiator!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exemay

why not run a third pump?? well, u can give it a go, im just not entirely sure u would get that much of a benefit from putting a third in there!

if u have a spare u could go for PUMP>RAD>RAD>RAD>RES>PUMP>PUMP

so that you get the pressure up going into the radiator!

---

I like that idea... I will shortly have 5 D5s... two as hot spares as I detailed a bit in previous posts (for "unnecessary" redundancy and experimentation's sake)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YMAA

If the rig is planned to run 24/7, then you will get no temperature gain whatsoever from adding more water to the loop. The water will (eventually) reach equilibrium just the same as if you had a T-line and no res. If you only run the machine for a few hours out of the day, then yeah, you might see gain from a huge res. But if you have the multiple loops running into and out of the same massive res, it no longer becomes a dual-loop system, just a single loop with a whole bunch of pumps.

---

Hmmm, yes it will reach an equilibrium but with more volume for heat to diffuse thus surface area to escape I question whether that equilibrium would be less so to a non-negligible extent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

yes see I presumed you had drawn the diagrams incorrectly in the picture earlier on but that is not the case. My apologies ;)

still I say just use two pumps in series for the GPUs and you will have more than enough redundancy as long as you monitor them frequently enough.

---

The redundancy is just for fun... doing something I've never done, etc. Plus I've already completed 90% of the controller schematic... just looking for some electrically pneumatic ball valves I can mod into the loop as failure point diversions. :)

A closer look at the bitspower top/bottom/front.
http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0020.jpg

http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0021.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xaxis

Hmmm, yes it will reach an equilibrium but with more volume for heat to diffuse thus surface area to escape I question whether that equilibrium would be less so to a non-negligible extent.

---

I'm not sure what you mean by "volume for heat to diffuse thus surface area to escape." Do you mean heat dissipation through the res? The amount of heat dissipated from a closed acrylic res is insignificant, even a metal one would be the same for that matter. If the reservoir is exposed to the air and large enough it might make a difference, but then you'd have the same contamination problems bong users have.

Or do you mean heat dissipation from the radiator surface area? If that's the case, then it doesn't matter how large your res is because the air -> water delta will be so low due to the radiators. The fact of the matter is, running the machine for long periods of time will cause the water to reach equilibrium. How long it takes depends on the res, how high or low the temperature depends on the radiators.

Either way I don't recommend planning a gigantic res for the intent of cooling better. T-lines may actually be a better way to go considering the amount of stuff you're trying to fit in the case(s).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exemay

i dont think you loose pressure/flow overall....its just pointless feeding into a res because there is a massive pressure drop going into the res.... so your better off just using 1 pump

---

i heard you do, because the air inside your res is compressible.

Unless someone want to show me physics on how it doesnt.. :P

U know me, im a total physics person, and physics will shut me up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

i heard you do, because the air inside your res is compressible.

Unless someone want to show me physics on how it doesnt.. :P

U know me, im a total physics person, and physics will shut me up.

---

I've been saying this since Martin did his test with the Coke bottle. ;)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...14&postcount=6

From

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=152428

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

i heard you do, because the air inside your res is compressible.

Unless someone want to show me physics on how it doesnt.. :P

U know me, im a total physics person, and physics will shut me up.

---

ok....

physics says that im right and your wrong ....happy?:yepp: :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exemay

ok....

physics says that im right and your wrong ....happy?:yepp: :rofl::rofl::rofl:

---

not without a general proof using constants solved out mathmatically. :rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

I've been saying this since Martin did his test with the Coke bottle. ;)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...14&postcount=6

From

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=152428

---

Solution: FURTHER segregate the inlet and outlet to upwards of 75% the height of the res "coke bottle".from the top derlin, insert two 1/4" thick nickel plated copper coils into the res, with stems breaching the derline top yet 100% air tight. attached to the coil apparatus affix a heatsink/fan. Hypothesis: Thermal diffusion will be provided via the coil assembly and the increased segregation in the reservoir will decrease flow from rushing in and out while allowing for near complete air bleeding for the EDIT: air will have time to "settle" and escape. The system flow will stabilize. Additions of sealant tapes and extra measures to ensure air tightness will be a must as well.

EDIT: the heatsink/fan would of course be brazed and affixed outside of the res... basically an external heatsink with "tentacles" coiled into the res.

Sounds fun. Thoughts?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

not without a general proof using constants solved out mathmatically. :rofl:

---

lol if u really want i can investigate it for ya!!

but this is what i understand it to be:

common sense would say that the pressure would be effected overall, because its like pumping into a radiator, you get a pressure drop such as when you pump into a radiator, its a volume of water behing held in a the small confides of the tubing going to an area of much larger volume, becasue the loops are selead PHYSICS tells us that it requires more effort for fill up an area of larger volume under pressure!......but i cant see that it really applies to this, from testing we can see that having a setup such as pump>rad>pump will keep the pressure constant because the pump after the radiator picks up the pressure lost!

going on that, id say that you wouldnt really loose much pressure overall having the 3 pumps/res in this setup such as has been posted on this thread becasue from what i can tell, the final pump will pick up the pressure which has been lost form the first and second pumps, pumping into the second and third res.

From what i can tell, you wont loose any pressure because he hasnt got the pumps in series....he hasnt built up any extra pressure or flow therefore from what i can understand, this setup would have the same flow having 1 pump, or 3!

so basically, the only way to set this loop up effectively is to have 3 pumps in series......OR have the pump dotted about the loop to pick up pressure lost through blocks or radiators OR have a monster sized res and have 1 pump after the res!

exemax u forgot tho, in a fully bled system there is no air, and water isnt compressible.

That is why loop order has no impact because flow going from A to B is uniform...

however if you have a res b4 the pump, the pump will exert pressure on the res, compress the air, and eat your flow and pressure.

Martin tested this and showed it.

As long as you can get 100% of the air out of the res, it "should" act like an over sized piece of tubing. It should also have absolute minimum effect on pressure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

exemax u forgot tho, in a fully bled system there is no air, and water isnt compressible.

That is why loop order has no impact because flow going from A to B is uniform...

however if you have a res b4 the pump, the pump will exert pressure on the res, compress the air, and eat your flow and pressure.

Martin tested this and showed it.

---

in that case im confuzzled

but the way he is proposing to set up the pumps and res's he wont get any benifit in flow...would he??

...just have the pumps pull water from the res like a normal person...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exemay

in that case im confuzzled

but the way he is proposing to set up the pumps and res's he wont get any benifit in flow...would he??

---

Just a small fraction but that would be due to the pumps achieving near full rated pressure. A serious gain in flow would be from joining them in parallel into 1 bigger tube (3 x 3/8" I.D. into 1 x 5/8" I.D.).

Look what just dropped into my lap.

http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0022.jpg

http://www.xaxis.net/downloads/image...ation/0023.jpg

Lots of modding fun to be sure. How, what, where, why? Certainly not combined with any of the other loops... But I have big plans for this little unit, plans I may need help with when the time comes, but plans none the less.

SS meets TEC meets LC w/ a little LN2 sprinkled ontop.... Or something like that... :D

Boreas.... :\

Ima keep quiet about that as that is the one of the things i hate the most in TEC's. The other is the freezone.

Xaxis you mix metals, and ima shoot you... then resurrect you only to shoot you again... because your butchering a queen rig. :\

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xaxis

I've read not to push a pump into a res but I can see no reason not to, especially when I'm not actually concerned with increasing the flow rate. Maybe you have some insight on this?

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Quote myself: I just wanted to point out that from the start I was fully aware pressure increase would be negligible if any. I was orienting the setup the original way I proposed because of my interest in building a redundant loop with logic controlled electrically pneumatic valves...

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Originally Posted by exemay

in that case im confuzzled

but the way he is proposing to set up the pumps and res's he wont get any benifit in flow...would he??

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(yes, I agree, see above)

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Originally Posted by YMAA

...just have the pumps pull water from the res like a normal person...

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normal person??? Have you lost My mind? :wierd: never! :)

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Just a small fraction but that would be due to the pumps achieving near full rated pressure. A serious gain in flow would be from joining them in parallel into 1 bigger tube (3 x 3/8" I.D. into 1 x 5/8" I.D.).

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(Also, agreed).

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Boreas.... :\

Ima keep quiet about that as that is the one of the things i hate the most in TEC's. The other is the freezone.

Xaxis you mix metals, and ima shoot you... then resurrect you only to shoot you again... because your butchering a queen rig. :\

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:) I wouldn't speak such words to early on... this is just a toy and though my suspicions of your telepathy are growing I still strongly doubt you know what I have in mind. ;)

Out of all this insanity one thing I can promise you, is: I WILL NOT MIX METALS, PROMISE!

It uses alu in the wetted parts.

That means your almost screwed in mixing metals unless you use it for ram blocks.

also xaxis...

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/3849/mistakeh.jpg

found a ton of errors in your original plan.

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

It uses alu in the wetted parts.

That means your almost screwed in mixing metals unless you use it for ram blocks.

also xaxis...



found a ton of errors in your original plan.

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I thought the same thing - turns out the BP tops work differently than a normal d5 top

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

It uses alu in the wetted parts.

That means your almost screwed in mixing metals unless you use it for ram blocks.

also xaxis...

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/3849/mistakeh.jpg

found a ton of errors in your original plan.

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Are you talking about aluminum in the TEC? Read below, I said it won't be part of any of the loops.

As for the D5s, your probably right, but I didn't explain it well but way way down I said I have them turned sideways for viewing purposes... The pumps when mounted on the UN brackets as I have planned I believe will be purposed as they should be... so yeah, this exact loop order etc is not at all what will be seen.. I was planning revisions based on all of yours and everyones helpful suggestions/criticisms below... The only thing I won't do is leave a pump out or leave a rad out or leave a res out, what have you... They will all remain, but how and in what order remains to become a constant...

Again, again.. TEC is just a toy... all shall be revealed.

Adding the Boreas to your loop is absolutely pointless and would probably result in a temp INCREASE thanks to the amount of rad space you'll be using. Not to mention it's loud, produces a lot of heat, and IIRC uses 1/4" barbs.

Honestly, for a tribute to XS this build sure is ignoring a lot of XS' principles, with the exception of a low price/performance ratio.