Laing DDC (Swiftech MCP350/355) Names & Info

Since the DDC pump has become so popular and now is generaly always recomended over the D5 and 50Z(wich also are very good pumps), that is with the modifed tops of course, ive decided to collect all info about the pump in one thread.
DDC is known to be more silent than both D5 and 50Z while it outperform them both!
The pump is known under different names and there may be a little confusion out there since there also is a couple of different version of the pump. Ive collected the names beneath... There is also a 11W version but its the 10w\18w wich is normal and being sold now so i consentrated about them:

There is now a new revision out wich has a blue impeller with a bit smaller hole in it. The layout of the pump semes to be the same for both ddc1 and ddc2 so both can potensially be changed to the other. Read more Here(german)

Different 10w names(with and without tops): ddc-1, mcp350, ddc pro,
Different 18w names(with and without tops): ddc-2, mcp355, ddc ultra, ddc+, ddc 1t-pluss

The pro and ultra is actually alphacool names and describes the 10w and 18w with their top

How to spot the difference between 10w and 18w:
10w got a black impeller and 18w got an orange impeller
There is also some holes in the impeller of the 18w but if you spotted those youve already noticed the orange color of it ;)

Aslo added some places to buy this pump, there is ofcourse alot more but here is some atleast

Warning! There seemes to be som fake ddcs going around!
Read more here!

Where to buy:
www.petrastechshop.com
www.dangerdenstore.com
www.alphacool.de
www.jab-tech.com
store.over-clock.com


And this pump doesnt show its real beast without a modded top. the top is what really makes this pump
and you can read some of this tests to see why and how well it performs

Tests:
Petras test of Petra\Alphacool\Radiical tops, also including 50z
H2Okoelings test of standard\alphacool\water tank top(danish)
Systemcoolings test of 10W

The Alphacool\watercool tops can even be modified a bit for a little more performance, its just about enlarging the inlet hole as is a little small
original. Just remember not to over do it as bigger aint always better :)
Here is a few links to people here @ xs who modified theirs:
Nickhsub1
Andersson.j
Trice

Here ive listed every top wich is avaliable, except from the originale of course

Different tops:
Petras top
Alphacool top
Alphacool Dual pump top
Alphacool water tank top
Watercool top (identical to Alphacool)
Watercool dual pump top
Watercool water tank top(identical to Alphacool?)
KP-xpcmods top
Radiical top
Home made top modification

There is also been some pumps with starting issues, you can discuss it more
Here

Any question about the pump; pm "rkorzuch" (manager Laing usa)
Or use this thread.

Made a little "compilation(man it was 205kB, had to tweak a little to get under 200kB)
At the top its Petras top then Alphacool dual top and Alpahcool water tank top. And on the bottom we got Voigts home made top next to Radiical top

*reserved*

This could be added to your "sticky".

The manager at Laing (USA) that I contacted through email said that if we have any questions that he would be glad to answer "PMs". His user name is....rkorzuch.

Things such as this is what makes Laing a quality product. :clap:

Stickied, now get to work :p:

& Guys, please keep this ON TOPIC. I won't hesitate to do some post cleaning if it gets out of hand.

Pictures of the different tops and maybe impeller colors would be helpful. Maybe everyone could take a picture of their pump, pump top, pump pcb, impeller and the sticker/printing on the side of the pump so we could establish some kind of database of different versions of the pump to determine which ones have issues?

Maybe some reference that Danger Dens 11w DDC is actually the same as the 18w DDCs?

A link to systemcoolings modification guide for top inlet?

A link to petras test of the different DDCtops? And maybe one to the test over at H2Okoeling.dk too?

Don't forget SystemCoolings test of the 10w DDC: http://systemcooling.com/swiftech_mcp350-01.html

A few more tops:
Watercools top (similar to alphacools, tank mounting holes differ)
Watercools tank top
Watercools dual top
KP-xpcmods top
KP-xpcmods tanktop? (not sure about this one)

EDIT: See Thomas post below.

The PRO top from Alphacool and Watercool isn't identical, but almost.

The difference is the mouting wholes for the watertank and therefore you can't use a Alphacool tank on a Watercool PRO top and virsa versa.
/Thomas

FYI, Pro and Ultra are both names by Alphacool. The normal DDC is just DDC, the 18w version is the Plus.

Pro and Ultra are the 10w and 18w versions with Alphacool tops.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andersson.j

Pictures of the different tops and maybe impeller colors would be helpful. Maybe everyone could take a picture of their pump, pump top, pump pcb, impeller and the sticker/printing on the side of the pump so we could establish some kind of database of different versions of the pump to determine which ones have issues?

Maybe some reference that Danger Dens 11w DDC is actually the same as the 18w DDCs?

A link to systemcoolings modification guide for top inlet?

A link to petras test of the different DDCtops? And maybe one to the test over at H2Okoeling.dk too?

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Like this?

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5...04largeir9.jpg

Heh, I like your ramsinks :p:

Better link for Radiical top...

http://www.radiical.com.au/products/RadiicalPumpTop.asp

eh i dunno if its correct but i read that there is a batch of bad DDCs out there?

anyway if its true anyone have a list of serial numbers to check out if u got a bad one?
as i a while ago bought a brand new one for half price and just wanna make shure its ok.

what PSU are you using if your ddc stalled on startup but after few thumps starts normally.... i currently have HEC 475w, running 24/7, if turned on/off i always check if the impeller is turning else i kill the power at once avoiding later complications with CPU and GPU...

If we photograph the PCB (or at least write down the numbers) maybe we can identify the faulty batch?

Here's a few pictures of my working DDC-1 and DDC-2:

DDC-1 PCB

Version: 5.7
Serial number?: A-00-075-062.

This DDC-1 worked fine for several months with the standard top but it rattles loudly so I don't use it anymore. I purchased a second DDC-1 to replace it which also works fine without any ratteling, but since it's mounted deep inside a shuttle at the moment I don't have the energy to photograph it.
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2823/ddc1wv1.jpg

DDC-2 PCB

Version: 6.0
Serial number?: A-00-075-065

I''ve got two DDC-2 with this version and serial numbers and both of them have been working flawlessly for about a year now. I'm running them in series with modified alphacool tops at about 11V from my miniNG because over 11V they get loud because my loop isn't restrictive enough.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6786/ddc2zl8.jpg

DDC-2 Label

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5...c2labelyf4.jpg

DDC-1 Label

No picture of the DDC-1 label due to a mishap with some acetone. (Acetone is also useful for removing the ugly printing on tubing!) :)

DDC-1 & DDC-2 Impellers

Those magnets are pretty strong! A few millimeters closer and they smash together.


It's not only the color that separates them, the DDC-2 impeller's got some holes which the DDC-1 doesn't.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5249/ddcimpua0.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eXa

And link to modifying the alphacool top?

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There' a few threads here on XS describing how to do it, but:

• My thread isn't perfect since I drilled a too large hole, and the tapering probably affects performance negativly.
• Nikhsub1 didn't take any pictures before he drilled.
• Trices thread doesn't have any pictures any more and I don't remember how good they were.

The perfect guide would include: lots of pictures, a description of how to drill in acrylic and a hole no bigger than the one in the impeller (~12mm). So if anyone is planing on modifying their alphacool top please write a nice guide too. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eXa

*reserved*

@NickS: Daam that was fast!:eek: ok working on it...

@SiGfever: Cant find rkorzuch here yet?

@andersson.j: Yeah pictures would be great. maybe using this post for pictures?
i have collected som pictures. will post this later...

@Thomas FJ: Ah good to know, will get that in there too...

@Xavior: yeah knew that, but good point. can get that clearer in the text later....

@Nealh: Thanks

@andersson.j: Thanks again! i belive that the hole should not be any bigger than the id of the barb used. so if your using EK barbs the hole should be 10mm. Oh and ive been wondering how big the hole in the impeller was, now i know... 12mm

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Quote: 10-11-06

"John:

I have to apologize. I have been tied up on another project and I have not had much time to contribute to this forum. I should have some free time over the next couple of weeks and I will try and answer as many questions that I can. Thank you for the information and if you need anything from me please don't hesitate to ask.

Best Regards,

Rob Korzuch
Laing Thermotech, Inc."

eXa, nice sticky. If you need anything done that requires a mod to do it, just send me a PM. I will go update the Pumps thread now with a link to this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eXa

Made a little "compilation(man it was 205kB, had to tweak a little to get under 200kB)
At the top its Petras top then Alphacool dual top and Alpahcool water tank top. And on the bottom we got Voigts home made top next to Radiical top

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You just had to use a photo of the prototype instead of the production version, didn't you? ;)

Anyway, I'm going to be meeting with people from Laing and Pumpstock next week (along with the pres. of Laing, apparently)... Anything in particular that you guys would like me to ask?

Looking to be a great sticky dude, awesome pix. Keep up the good work ;).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Petra

You just hadAnyway, I'm going to be meeting with people from Laing and Pumpstock next week (along with the pres. of Laing, apparently)... Anything in particular that you guys would like me to ask?

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I hope that you are meeting with them in hopes of improving performance of the overall package.

Possibly ask them if they could make molded tops with 1/2" fittings and top inlet. with a molded top you could get shapes that would be insanely costly to machine for alot less money.

and maybe ask what was causing the rash of failures. (although i dont expect them to comment on that while on record)

agreed with maxxx, the recent rash of ddc-2 failures is not helping their image much, unless of course there's such a thing as reconditioned ddc...

Okay, I met with several people from Pumpstock and Laing (including Scott Shimer, current president of Laing) for about an hour today... we talked about quite a few subject, ranging from technical stuff to the random quirks of the watercooling market. It was actually a very informative meeting for everyone involved. They'll be sending me some stuff that they've been working on and, hopefully, I'll be able to improve upon my current testing equipment so that I can provide them with more useful information than I already can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

I hope that you are meeting with them in hopes of improving performance of the overall package.

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While that wasn't really their original intent, that ended up being discussed... They're gonna do up a PQ curve for my DDC top (partly because the data would be useful to me and partly because they want to know exactly what they're up against). I'll let you know how that pans out when I can.

Quote:

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Possibly ask them if they could make molded tops with 1/2" fittings and top inlet. with a molded top you could get shapes that would be insanely costly to machine for alot less money.

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That was also discussed... The real issue is one of 'is it worth the cost to tool and produce this?' Now, the custom tops offer convenience, looks, and increased flow in lower restriction loops (~.5GPM over the stock DDC-2) but, in high restriction loops, the performance difference is less than 0.1GPM. Again, there will be some back-and-fourth here and we'll see how things pan out.

Quote:

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and maybe ask what was causing the rash of failures. (although i dont expect them to comment on that while on record)

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Interestingly, they said that they hadn't heard much of anything about it until recently, when a customer from Australia contacted them directly (as such, they paid to have the pump shipped to them for analysis). Also, according to them, Swiftech has only received a couple defective DDC-2's thus far.

From talking with them, it really does sound like they're rather in the dark... and, really, being on the forums, I can sympathize as I see a lot of complaining/speculation and very little useful information. There either needs to be a thread or I need to start compiling a list of all of the known DDC failures, the serial numbers of the units, production dates, place of purchase, and symptoms of failure. That way I can pass that information, and any defective pumps that I encounter, along to Scott (or one of the other guys I talked to today) so that they can assess the issue and figure out what's really going on.

It also seems to me that most of the defective pumps originated from Europe (after all, PPC's is likely getting their DDC pumps from Alphacool and Radiical (in AU) is also likely importing them from Laing's European division)... but that's just a guess, as I haven't seen enough solid information to make any real connection.

talked to someone at dangerden today (for a ddc-2 rma) and they where aware of the failures.

thanks for hte info alex. sounds like the meeting was delightfully productive.

best of luck on the future projects with them Petra! :toast:

Okay, I just received two defective DDC-2's from customers... both are having intermittent starting problems and are abnormally loud. Interestingly, however, they seem to be suffering from different problems.

The first one, sent in by smopoim86, has a severely warped impeller (sorry, no pics), causing the impeller to grind against the ceiling of the impeller housing. Sometimes, depending on where the impeller stopped previously and how much voltage you're giving the pump at startup, the pump fails to start. Other times, the pump starts but makes an incredible racket (clacking, buzzing, vibrating, etc.).

The second pump, sent in by a different customer, almost always fails to start. Upon inspection, I found that the impeller was fine but there was some scorching and contact discoloration on the pump's PCB (below). Additionally, the few times I did manage to get this pump to start, it wasn't performing as it should (its head pressure was maxing out at about 6psig, instead of the usual 8.5pisg).

http://www.petrastech.com/other/DDC-2bottom-burn.jpg

Having found this, I decided to inspect a little further and fond the following:

http://www.petrastech.com/other/DDC-2stator-close.jpg

If I have time next week, I'll take a closer look at it and see if I can come up with some useful information for your guys.

ouch that looks nasty !

I know a lot of people are experiencing problems...but is the rate of failure alarming? maybe i'll run my DDC w/top in series with my 50z just for safety

IDK how well that would work but I'd run just the 50z. I bet you won't see any decrease in temps more than 1*C, plus 1*C higher temps > $1k of dead hardware. :)

I never reccomend DDC's, but that's just me. Some people swear by them. I think they're junk.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aznblueeboi

I know a lot of people are experiencing problems...but is the rate of failure alarming? maybe i'll run my DDC w/top in series with my 50z just for safety

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So far, we've had a total of 3 defective DDC's out of the 60 or so we've sold since the release of our DDC tops (we've only been carrying them for about that long).

looks like manufacturing defects to me...
too hot soldering iron or whatever they used can cause that pcb discoloration...
also with the rewinding for the magnetic contacts, the insulation varnish(the whitish film if i am not mistaken) looks lacking all around...

That is kinda scary... Ill have my DDC-2 Running in a week or 2 i hope everythings will be alright.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by septim

looks like manufacturing defects to me...
too hot soldering iron or whatever they used can cause that pcb discoloration...

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It's likely not so much a manufacturing defect as either a defective batch of components (kinda like that plague of bad caps on mobos a few years ago) or, less likely, a flaw in design. It's obvious that the discoloration was caused by that chip when it 'released the magic smoke' (aka fried, burnt up, melted, blew, etc.).

I have emailed and PM'd Robert Korzuch at Laing about the issues and concerns on this forum. Even though he stated in our original emails that he would be glad to answer any questions if we PM'd him my last email and PM generated no response. :shrug:

Quote:

"John:

I appreciate your support for Laing products. I have registered on the XtremeSystems Forums and I will try and answer any questions the community has. My username on their forum is “rkorzuch” and if anyone wants to PM me I will try and answer as soon as possible.

Best Regards,

Robert Korzuch
Laing Thermotech, Inc.
830 Bay Blvd., Suite 101
Chula Vista, CA 91911"

Don't jump on conclusions very easy. As Petra stated out of the 60 sold only 2 had probs.
I'm running one of the first DDC-2 without probs for 6 months now and consider also that it has only worked with asus intel m/b's with the double restart prob.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Petra

So far, we've had a total of 3 defective DDC's out of the 60 or so we've sold since the release of our DDC tops (we've only been carrying them for about that long).

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thats 5%

Here are some pics of the Watercool DDC Tank PRO..

http://www.4eweb.de/pc/ddctank15.jpg

http://www.4eweb.de/pc/ddctank13.jpg

http://www.4eweb.de/pc/ddctank05.jpg

http://www.4eweb.de/pc/ddctank03.jpg

http://www.4eweb.de/pc/ddctank06.jpg


It's not identical to the Alphacool Tank.... ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoeBar

Don't jump on conclusions very easy. As Petra stated out of the 60 sold only 2 had probs.
I'm running one of the first DDC-2 without probs for 6 months now and consider also that it has only worked with asus intel m/b's with the double restart prob.

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I have faith that Laing will address the issues and correct the problems. My DDC-2 has been very good and the performance increase over my D5 is noticeable. I wonder how many of the failures can be attributed to over-heating?

I can't say that heat is causing problems but the pump does gets hot(30c ambient here) so do consider sticking some heat sinks on the back. I got 4 larger rams sinks on one pump and 8 smaller sinks on another. Runs flawlessly. :p:

Also if your pump is acting up, try sending an email to Laing. I did and they offered to make a replacement if i send the non starting pump back to them for evaluation.

Believe it or not, after the email contact with Laing, my non starting pump have no problems starting up ever since! :party2: :YIPPIE: :party3:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krueml_

Here are some pics of the Watercool DDC Tank PRO..

It's not identical to the Alphacool Tank.... ;)

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I have a feeling that it will also lacks performmance and cause the same probs... :p:

:nono:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SiGfever

I have faith that Laing will address the issues and correct the problems. My DDC-2 has been very good and the performance increase over my D5 is noticeable. I wonder how many of the failures can be attributed to over-heating?

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Laing backs up their pumps with a very good warranty and as i've heard they are more than willing to help.

After a day of running my new set-up, the lines were sparsely coated with a very fine silver/metallic dust. I cleaned everything out properly, so there is no way it all came from the radiator or something. The two suggestions I have heard were that maybe the nickel plating from my barbs is flaking off, or maybe the pump is grinding. I took apart my whole system today and carefully checked all the barbs, but can't see any sort of flaking. So that leaves my mcp355. From inspection of the top of the impeller, I see nothing wrong, but could it be possible grinding is taking place internally? And if so, is there any way you can think of to verify whether it is the pump or not? Thanks.

hmm is your pump noisy? if noisy, grinding noise then its the pump...

if not check other parts, some dirt maybe had from the recesses of the radiator or waterblocks.

btw did you take a picture of these silver metallic like particles?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoeBar

Don't jump on conclusions very easy. As Petra stated out of the 60 sold only 2 had probs.

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Not 2, but 3. 3 out of 60.

3 out of 60 is pretty bad, 5%, so every 20 theres a bad one. I am planning to get watercooling pretty soon (somehow...) and i was considering this pump because it has really high pressure, which is good. Now 3 broken out of a batch of 60 sounds scary to me, do you still think its worth buying? Also, are the more powerful ddc pumps loud, as in more audible than a not-too-good fan? Oh and, do they get very hot, like so that they break if theres like nothing cooling it?

Hi, i can get a cheap Laing DCC pump. I think this is a 10W version, bu i don't know the top:

http://i17.tinypic.com/436gbj9.jpg

And what is better for me, a mcp600/mcp650 or that pump?
My setup:

MCW6002
MCW50
BIXII
Danger Den 5 1/4" Bay Reservoir

These aren't high pressure blocks, like the storm. So what pump do i need(of those 2)?

Black impeller = 10w DDC. The top is from alphacool or watercool, they look almost identical. It's a pretty good top, performs about on par with Petras as you can see in Petras test.

Lee tested a top inlet modified 10w DDC over at SystemCooling.com which should perform about the same as the DDC in your picture.
Loop #1 has very little restriction:
Pump > 18” Tube > Black Ice Extreme Radiator > 12” Tube > Maze3 Waterblock > 18” Tube > Graduated 5 gallon bottle
Under these conditions it performed slightly worse than MCP650.
http://www.systemcooling.com/images/...od/image12.gifhttp://www.systemcooling.com/images/...55/image19.gif
Loop #2 is more restrictive:
Pump > 18” Tube > 6x6x2” heater core > 12” Tube > DangerDen RBX Waterblock (#1 Flow plate) > (2) 4” tubes to Y fitting > 18” Tube > Graduated 5 gallon bottle
Under these conditions it performed about the same as MCP650 and not far from MCP655:
http://www.systemcooling.com/images/...od/image14.gifhttp://www.systemcooling.com/images/...55/image20.gif

Since the DDC is a lot quieter, a lot smaller and dumps a lot less heat I would choose a DDC with top inlet over MCP600/650/655 any day of the week.

For me too? Because i haven't restrictive blocks.
And is it hard to modify the top(guide or something?)? Because i see it is lots of difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by barzi

For me too? Because i haven't restrictive blocks.
And is it hard to modify the top(guide or something?)? Because i see it is lots of difference.

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Yes I'd choose a DDC with top mounted inlet if I were you.
The purpose of modifying a DDC top is to move the inlet from the front to the top to increase flow. You don't need to modify the top since your pump has an aftermarket top which already has a top mounted inlet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andersson.j

Yes I'd choose a DDC with top mounted inlet if I were you.
The purpose of modifying a DDC top is to move the inlet from the front to the top to increase flow. You don't need to modify the top since your pump has an aftermarket top which already has a top mounted inlet.

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So my pump is the same as the modified mcp350 in your post(#48)?

And my pump has a inlet in the top. But i have 2 "holes" on the side. Are these outputs?(both) or one input and one output? And how do i use them?( i want to use the top inlet if it is has more flow then, but what do i do with the other 2 holes)

So if i can get a mcp655 and a Laing DCC with that top for the same price, you would go for the Laing?

So my pump is the same as the modified mcp350 in your post(#48)?
It's the same pump but with different tops. They should perform pretty much the same though.

And my pump has a inlet in the top. But i have 2 "holes" on the side. Are these outputs?(both) or one input and one output? And how do i use them?( i want to use the top inlet if it is has more flow then, but what do i do with the other 2 holes)
The left hole on the side is the outlet and the right is another inlet. Just plug the side inlet and use the one on top instead for increased flow.

So if i can get a mcp655 and a Laing DCC with that top for the same price, you would go for the Laing?
Yes.

Thank you very much :).
I know it's the same pump, but i mean in performance, they are the same too?(because you said i have a inlet in the top, and the modified version is only that you mod a inlet in the top).

If these 2 are the same, i will get the laing :D
Thanks again! ;)

hi guys, have you ever heard about problems with the 10w DDC? the start failure is a problem of DDC ultra only or of the DDC too?
Is it not possible that these problems derives from the mounting of modified tops?
thanks :p:

Is there a supply shortage of these? A lot of shops seem to be out of them at the moment.

http://www.petrastechshop.com/pumps.html

Yet Sidewinder seems to have them but they are blowing the DDC1's out at 65 bucks.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmcpu.html

I need a couple of pumps and I know whats going to happen. I'll order two with Petra's tops and by the time I get them installed there will be a new quieter and more dependable version for 1/2 the price staring me in the face lol.

I have a Corsair Nautilus 500 which uses a Laing DDC-1TP.

A couple of questions:

1. Is the noise level pretty much the same (running at the same volts) with all of the DDC pumps?

I'd like to replace it with a quieter version if possible.

2. It's mounted upside down in the external case. Is the noise level or wear and tear affected more when it's mounted that way?

Here's some pics of the external unit from a review:
http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=get...19&articID=457

The author speculates on question #2 but didn't confirm what Laing might have said.

Unfortunatly it doesn't look like I could add any of the tank mods as it's pretty tightly installed there.

The 10 w is quieter than the 18 and changing the top on either will alter the resonant charachteristics of the pump slightly so the noise difference between modded and unmodded tops will be somewhat subjective and dependant on a particular mounting methodology. There is also the variance between units that makes the discussion of noise all the more difficult. My pump may be noisier than yours even if it is the same pump. I dont think you can make it quieter given the restrictions of the case you have with the Nautilus beyond playing with the original mounting and foam tape material.

Here is a nice and simple mod to get to mod the 10w to a 18w version :)
Verry simple :D

http://forum.effizienzgurus.de/f23/h...id=29#overview

All,

I'm starting to get a bit concerned with the DDC+ failures that I'm seeing at different forums, as I understand it the % of failures is very low but it still concerns me when I think about it. I work away from the house quite a bit and I would hate to come home to a fried system due to pump failure.

I'm getting ready to build a dual loop with 2 MCP355's w/ Petra's Tops. Would the increased heatdump be of any concern if I ran 2 additional pumps on each loop in series for safety? I think it very unlikely that both DDC's would crap out at one time.

What is you're opinion XS, 2 pumps on each loop in series or stay with 1 pump per loop?

The failure is due to the modded tops and the ID for the impler being too small so it seams

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hard H20

All,

I'm starting to get a bit concerned with the DDC+ failures that I'm seeing at different forums, as I understand it the % of failures is very low but it still concerns me when I think about it. I work away from the house quite a bit and I would hate to come home to a fried system due to pump failure.

I'm getting ready to build a dual loop with 2 MCP355's w/ Petra's Tops. Would the increased heatdump be of any concern if I ran 2 additional pumps on each loop in series for safety? I think it very unlikely that both DDC's would crap out at one time.

What is you're opinion XS, 2 pumps on each loop in series or stay with 1 pump per loop?

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I have redundant pumps in all my loops. All my loops have at least two pumps. That's the best way to ensure you don't have expensive dead hardware. I encourage you to do so. If you run out of space, there's an Alphacool dual pump adapter that I use.

Ian

I was thinking the same thing, redundant pumps for safety sake. Running the setup like that hurting your temps any?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hard H20

Ian

I was thinking the same thing, redundant pumps for safety sake. Running the setup like that hurting your temps any?

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Quite to the contrary... the heat dump isn't as bad as you think as long as you have massive radiator power. The extra head pressure serves as a benefit.. Few people are as crazy to dedicate triple radiators to small blocks, but where a radiator can easily cool a 200 thermal watt cpu, then an extra little 18 watt pump is inconsequential.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pete

The failure is due to the modded tops and the ID for the impler being too small so it seams

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Unlikely... most of the DDC's that I've had come back were malfunctioning due to improperly manufactured/attached impellers that were making contact with the impeller housing ceiling (of the stock top) at certain angles of impeller deflection (basically, the impeller's surface was uneven due to high spots). I've had maybe three come back that 'burnt up' and those failures occurred within the first week of operation (or less).

Granted, this is still something that Laing is looking into, as they also offer a 1/2" straight inlet part for the DDC pumps.

Ian

Thanks for the info. I'm going to order 2 more pumps and run them in series. The PA120.3's should be more than up to the job.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...te/DDCinfo.jpg

Confused..good so am i and Laining.de!!!

If anyone has PCB info on older 10w and 18w let me know via PM asap please

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Petra

Unlikely... most of the DDC's that I've had come back were malfunctioning due to improperly manufactured/attached impellers that were making contact with the impeller housing ceiling (of the stock top) at certain angles of impeller deflection (basically, the impeller's surface was uneven due to high spots).

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That's very interesting. I haven't heard that before. Is there a way to tell if your pump has a bad impeller?

Guess we could lap them like we lap cpu and hsf....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pete

Guess we could lap them like we lap cpu and hsf....

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You'd probably put a hole in the impeller face and/or throw it out of balance by doing that. It's an attachment issue, or so it seems--I'll post a photo of what I'm talking about when I get a chance.

I have looked at mine and they look very unfinshed as if they have been randomly made.

They click on and off, i found that much out

Does anyone have a good howto mod from 10w to 18w?
Mine has a different pcb than the howto i found...

Differt PCB between both on the ones you have if your states side...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Signal64

I have a Corsair Nautilus 500 which uses a Laing DDC-1TP.

A couple of questions:

1. Is the noise level pretty much the same (running at the same volts) with all of the DDC pumps?

I'd like to replace it with a quieter version if possible.

2. It's mounted upside down in the external case. Is the noise level or wear and tear affected more when it's mounted that way?

Here's some pics of the external unit from a review:
http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=get...19&articID=457

The author speculates on question #2 but didn't confirm what Laing might have said.

Unfortunatly it doesn't look like I could add any of the tank mods as it's pretty tightly installed there.

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1. from looking at the pics, you can see the label on the pump which reads: DDC-1TP this is the 10W version of the pump. i use the same one, but with a different top. i have also modded my pump to switch it to the 18W version. from hearing at this two configurations i would say the 18W is noticeable loader, but its not that bad. as you already have the 10W version installed, the only way to reduce noise would be a different top. but as you said, you are already out of space ...

2. this is a excerpt from the operations manual, downloaded from laing
http://www.laing.de/file/113
the mounting position in the nautilus looks not recommended by laing, see the red rectangle:
Attachment 56912

I'd really like to see 2 DDC+ getting worse results than a single one. Really, how much heat will make it into the loop?

hey does anyone have a direct comparison between the Laing DDC2 and DDC1?? How loud are they??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by perfection

hey does anyone have a direct comparison between the Laing DDC2 and DDC1?? How loud are they??

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from looking at your sig i can see you already use a laing ddc1. here is a link to a howto to modify a ddc1 to a ddc2:
http://forum.effizienzgurus.de/f23/h...id=29#overview
this can be done on a certain revision of ddc's. you have to verify if you have the correct one. looks like laing manufactures just one ddc and use a bridge to decide if it is a ddc1 or ddc2. just open up your ddc and solder in this bridge. now you can easy compare the two.
i did this mod and soldered a switch to my ddc. i can now switch between ddc1 and ddc2 modes. the difference is 3900rpm vs. 4500rpm and in my loop about 1.8liter/minute vs 2.25liter/minute which is a 25% increase in flowrate.
running at 4500rpm the ddc is noticeably louder but it's not that bad at all.
on the other hand, the increased flowrate does not much to my cooling performance. think i'm on the lower end of flowrate anyway. may be there would be a difference in cooling performance if i could up my flowrate to 4liters/minute ...
as there is no need for more cooling at the moment, i stick to the ddc1 mode for now.

my Laing DDC is the black impeller, which is different to the blue one. I pulled it apart and the wires are different so I can't mod it.

and if I buy a Laing DDC2, I can still change it back to the Laing DDC1 mode right? I'm about to get one of the Laing DDC2 with the OCLabs Plexy top, because it just looks sexy :D
And its got the blue impeller which was the used in that guide.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by perfection

and if I buy a Laing DDC2, I can still change it back to the Laing DDC1 mode right? I'm about to get one of the Laing DDC2 with the OCLabs Plexy top, because it just looks sexy :D
And its got the blue impeller which was the used in that guide.

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If it has the blue impeller, then it's gonna be either a DDC-3.1 (9W) or DDC-3.2 (18W). These are the pumps that you can easliy modify to jump back and forth between 9W and 18W spec. However, you should keep in mind that the DDC-2 (18W) is substantially more powerful than the DDC-3.2 (18W).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fgw

i did this mod and soldered a switch to my ddc. i can now switch between ddc1 and ddc2 modes. the difference is 3900rpm vs. 4500rpm and in my loop about 1.8liter/minute vs 2.25liter/minute which is a 25% increase in flowrate.
running at 4500rpm the ddc is noticeably louder but it's not that bad at all.
on the other hand, the increased flowrate does not much to my cooling performance.

---

What is the difference between the watertemps?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fgw

i did this mod and soldered a switch to my ddc. i can now switch between ddc1 and ddc2 modes. the difference is 3900rpm vs. 4500rpm and in my loop about 1.8liter/minute vs 2.25liter/minute which is a 25% increase in flowrate.
running at 4500rpm the ddc is noticeably louder but it's not that bad at all.
on the other hand, the increased flowrate does not much to my cooling performance. think i'm on the lower end of flowrate anyway. may be there would be a difference in cooling performance if i could up my flowrate to 4liters/minute ...

---

1) How'd you know the exact RPM between the 9w & 18w settings?

2a) Do you have some damper / gel pad / decoupling system in place for your pump?

2b) Would you say the DDC2 setting is still quieter than a 900-1000rpm 120mm fan? Or if you can't reference the noise level to a fan, then maybe with some other component in your system (e.g. what's louder or quieter than the DDC2 setting).

3) Could you fill me in on how to create a switch for the DDC? It's probably really simple, but never took an electronics class in high school =/

Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ubi

What is the difference between the watertemps?

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there is NO DIFFERENCE at all! let my system idle for some time to stabilize temps a bit. fans on the radiator were running at 700rpm during both tests.

• first i run the pump in ddc1 mode (3900rpm) for 10 minutes. core temp reads 29c for both cores. watertemp was 26.9c.
• next i switched to ddc2 mode (4500rpm) for 10 minutes again. coretemp and watertemp stayed the same.

as said before, i have a very low flowrate and the change from 1.8liter/minute to 2.25liter/minute does not make any difference. may be if you are using a less restrictive loop and your flowrate would change form 3l/m up to about 4l/m you could see a difference.
in my environment, the limited change in flowrate has no effect on temps!
also, did this test during idle, because during orhtos, temps are fluctuating by some degrees which would give misleading results. if i see no difference during idle i doubt there would be any difference during load conditions at all.

the impact of fanspeed is far higher than the impact of flowrate:
running the pump in ddc1 mode again, i switched the fans on my radiator from 700rpm to 900rpm. i could watch temps going down: starting from coretemp readings of 29c and a watertemp of 26.8c, temps dropped to 28c in coretemp and 26.1c for water after 10 minutes. after witching back to a fanspeed of 700rpm, watertemp started rising slowly again ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jinsean

1) How'd you know the exact RPM between the 9w & 18w settings?

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ddc gives a rpm signal as fans do. just connect it to a motherboard fan header and monitor rpms in any monitoring software.

Quote:

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2a) Do you have some damper / gel pad / decoupling system in place for your pump?

---

just used the standard mounting hardware that came with my pump. will add a picture later.

Quote:

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2b) Would you say the DDC2 setting is still quieter than a 900-1000rpm 120mm fan? Or if you can't reference the noise level to a fan, then maybe with some other component in your system (e.g. what's louder or quieter than the DDC2 setting).

---

this is very hard to tell and very, very subjective. but i wll try: usually i run my six s-flex sff21e (1200rpm) fans at 700 rpm. at this speed, although i'm using six fans(!) they are almost inaudible. if listening very close, the pump could be identified when in ddc1 mode. when in ddc2 mode, the fan needs to rev up to about 1000rpm to be as loud as the pump. at 1200rpm the fans are definitely louder than the pump in ddc2 mode.
as i said, this is very subjective and i'm using six fans together on my rad.
and don't forget the harddisk. if my seagate barracuda kicks in, you don't have to care about the pump or the fans ...
in general, i would say this pump is almost inaudible in ddc1 mode and still very quiet in ddc2 mode!

Quote:

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3) Could you fill me in on how to create a switch for the DDC? It's probably really simple, but never took an electronics class in high school =/

Thanks.

---

as the pump is checking the status of this connection during startup, you have to switch the pump off and on after connecting the wire to mod the pump from one mode to the other. i use a three position switch with two switched contacts. in the center position the pump is off. in the other positions its either in ddc1 or in ddc2 mode. a two position switch would do here. just ignore the center position and connect everything the same. i prefer to be able to switch the pump off. this helps during refill and test.
Attachment 57287
* ignore the typo near the blue connections. it should read 12V instead 12C!

• the red connections are coming from the psu 12v rail. which is usually the yellow cable on any 4 pin peripheral connector.
• the blue connections are going to the pump 12V supply, which again should be the yellow cable on the pump connector.
• the green connections are routed to the soldering point as described in the how to
  here
  the only difference is, that you are NOT connecting this soldering point to the adjacent soldering point.
  instead you route a wire outside and connect it to the switch like the green wire above
• the black wire from the pump connector runs to the black ground connection on the 4 pin peripheral connector as before

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fgw

in my environment, the limited change in flowrate has no effect on temps!
also, did this test during idle, because during orhtos, temps are fluctuating by some degrees which would give misleading results. if i see no difference during idle i doubt there would be any difference during load conditions at all.

---

There is a difference, it just may not be detectable with onboard temperature sensors (lack of resolution). That said, the difference would become more pronounced (and possibly detectable with onboard sensors) at full CPU load because you're putting more heat into the system (i.e. a tiny change in thermal resistance due to increased flow can become a very large change in CPU temperature, provided that you're applying enough heat).

A simple explanation for the small difference in flowrate, however, would be the DDC-3's abysmal max head pressure (thus, making the difference between the DDC-3.1 and DDC-3.2 pretty small...especially when used in a restrictive loop).

According to the user manual posted a while back, this pump must not pump downwards! Could anyone explain y this is as i am building a case with these pumps facing down!? I presume it may have something to do with the original top and that a modded top should allow the pump to pump downwards?!? (not upside down!) Cheeers

just wondering, this is the OClabs top here but all tops are very similar is design.

wouldn't it make more sense if outlet was on the right hand side as it looks like impeller spins clockwise. wouldn't it be better with the outlet on the other side??

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...n/ddcfront.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by perfection

just wondering, this is the OClabs top here but all tops are very similar is design.

wouldn't it make more sense if outlet was on the right hand side as it looks like impeller spins clockwise. wouldn't it be better with the outlet on the other side??

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...n/ddcfront.jpg

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I think it gets a lot less pressure that way.

hey guys, ive been doing some research on these DDC pumps by laing. I myself have a koolance PC3-700 case with the upgraded pump/tank (specifically the TNK-400-NX2SL).

i am fairly certain that this '18w' pump is the same as the DDC+ or DDC2 pump you all are talking about here. can anyone confirm that at all? im just wondering because my pump is not quiet at full speed (i have the pump speed controller from koolance as well, nifty little gadget to have when i sleep!).\

i know koolance is highly NOT recommended but it was a gift to me last year and i dont have the option to make a new system (yet), so please just bear with me here!

take a look here or here for the pump/res im talking about. the 2nd link's 'more pictures' show a good view of the orange impeller already mentioned in this thread, just FYI.

Well, this is awesome info. I'm currently testing my own design in my PC, and though it's really noisy in the prototype, I'm hoping to get the noise out and get it to where I can replicate it easily, at which point I'd be more than glad to send one to Petra and nikhsub1 to test so I can get better at this...

People here would be interested in more choices, right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brinox

i am fairly certain that this '18w' pump is the same as the DDC+ or DDC2 pump you all are talking about here. can anyone confirm that at all? im just wondering because my pump is not quiet at full speed (i have the pump speed controller from koolance as well, nifty little gadget to have when i sleep!).\

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Yes, it is a Laing DD2-2. By mistake, I ordered just the pump once, and it had the actual Laing spec label. I have the Exos upgrade version, and, its a little noisy at full tilt, so I bought the same controller. I found that if you set it too low, the pump may not start.
Furthermore, for the doubting Thomas' out there, when it is mounted on a reservoir, the intake is on the top, just like the modded tops out there.

I got a DDC from sharka a couple of weeks ago.

They sell two different DDCs, both with the alphacool top -

Alphacool Modified Laing DDC PLUS - 159GPH $96.95
Alphacool Modified Laing DDC - 111GPH $66.95

I ordered the model advertised as 111GPH since I was concerned about the 159GPH model being too loud. Yet, the pump they sent me does have the orange impeller and on the label it says

" ... DDC-1plusT ... 18W .. "

Not sure if they sent me the 159GPH model by mistake. If not, which DDC version would you guess is the 159GPH? The new revision with the blue impeler?

So far, noise is not an issue. And the pump is tiny. I was really shocked at how small this thing is.

I got some questions about this pump..

1.
I have seen alot of posts of liang pumps dying, looks like a bad shipment, if i buy a pump now, is there a possibility that it will just die?

2.
I have been looking on that 9-18w mod, can all liang pump do this? Or it is just a special version that i can use this mod on?

3.
Trim top?
I will get better performance by adding a new top on the pump. It doesnt looks that hard to make a home make top, anyone tried this?

Thats all :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hellemyr

I got some questions about this pump..

1.
I have seen alot of posts of liang pumps dying, looks like a bad shipment, if i buy a pump now, is there a possibility that it will just die?

---

from what i have seen, it looks like reports of dead ddc pumps are coming from customers overseas. there are some reports from the us and also canada. may be i'm wrong, but there might have been a bad batch or revision out in the us market.
i'm using a ddc pump for some month now without problems. although i have to mention, this pump gets fairly hot. during testing i had on lying on my bench when i touched the bottom side of the pump. it war not warm it was hot! i installed the pump in my case and use a fan to let some air flow over and even more important below the pump. thus the pump keeps cool or at worst warm but by far not hot as it was before! this not only keeps the pump cool but also helps to keep watertemps low, as heat produced by the pump gets transported directly into the water ...

Quote:

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2.
I have been looking on that 9-18w mod, can all liang pump do this? Or it is just a special version that i can use this mod on?

---

the conversion can be made to a certain revision of the pump. you have to open the pump and check the pcb. see here for details.

Quote:

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3.
Trim top?
I will get better performance by adding a new top on the pump. It doesnt looks that hard to make a home make top, anyone tried this?

Thats all :)

---

i would not go through this and try to make my own top. you can order a ddc at watercool with the top you want. it does not cost that much more and saves you a lot of work, but it's up to you ...

I think ill be making my own top.

But, on moust of the tops, the inlet is on the top and on the stock top the inlet is next to the outlet. Any reasons for that? I wound prefer to have the inlet and outlet at the same posission at the stock top.

I have been looking at pumps now, and trying to find one that i can mod to 18W.

But how do i konw what pumps can be modded?

Im looking at those from newegg, they look alike, but are they, and can they be modded to 18W?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835108081

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hellemyr

But how do i konw what pumps can be modded?

Im looking at those from newegg, they look alike, but are they, and can they be modded to 18W?

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Since those are both 9W DDC-1's, they can't be modded using the method shown on that German site. You'd need to track down either a DDC-3.1 (9W, blue impeller) or DDC-3.2 (18W, blue impeller). They are most easily had in Europe right now, but neither of them can match the head pressure of the 18W DDC-2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pss75

According to the user manual posted a while back, this pump must not pump downwards! Could anyone explain y this is as i am building a case with these pumps facing down!? I presume it may have something to do with the original top and that a modded top should allow the pump to pump downwards?!? (not upside down!) Cheeers

---

As with all water pumps, you must first PRIME the pump with water in order for it to work properly, otherwise you will burn out the motor.

However, once it is primed with water, you can mount it anyway you want to, unlike most significant others.:p:

I seen to fint any DDC 3,1 or 3,2. They are all just called DDc 350 or 355, can anyone link to a shop where i cant find i DDC 3.1, please?

How do you hook up those Laing DDC pumps I mean where do the wires go to the psu?

I received my replacement MCP355 yesterday that has the exact same problem as the first.

It sounds like there is sand inside the pump. It works fine and there is plenty of pressure, but honestly it's like I put a handful of sand inside the motor.

Two MCP355, same problem, different retailer.

Not :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing happy.

Do you have problems whit the new model of the pump whit blue impreller?