yep and until they come up with a bios that has the ability to enable or disable the patch I will probably stay with 1.13 or maybe perhaps try POD one day as I haven't yet.
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yep and until they come up with a bios that has the ability to enable or disable the patch I will probably stay with 1.13 or maybe perhaps try POD one day as I haven't yet.
So the AHCI drivers were so bad you had to go back to the IDE's?Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
And your running XP, I'm on Vista 64.... Pretty sure XP's drivers are better.. Maybe I'll just wait... :D Thanks for the input though!
The MSI K9A2 v2, after what 6 weeks? Man I wan't a $30 trade up option.. Yeah! and I want one on a B3 stepping too... :rofl:
You know, I think I finally found the SS for my machine... 250x10x8x8, puts my Mem right at specs, runs real stable and the only V I had to crank up was Vcore to 1.299 (it's an MSI thing ;) )
Some of you might be happy to know (or not :D) .. I have another Phenom 9600 BE for testing ;)
Testing later tonight, busy elsewhere all day for now, maybe spill into the morrow.
New board (V2) is missing Promise T3 controler (only 4 SATA on SB600).Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
I want a SB700 version IMO...
KTW I guess your gonna let us know how that cpu does hummm?
Hi there KTE. just flashed to the new beta bios POH and used your first setting. This is what i am getting now with the different settings. I have noted that my NB is now different to my HT ?Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Which is better to use for RAID0 the SB600 or the Promise controller?
Well a lot of people are having major issues getting raid to work on the SB600 and thus are using the promise. This is discussed on various threads on MSI site, i see they mention they fixed this problem with the new beta bios
Well the new POH bios you can turn the TLB fix on or off in BIOS. It is set to disabled which i hope means off. One thing though the selection for P-State is gone.
Nice thanks for that info Swanie. I hope they put that into effect in bios 1.3 official. If pstates is gone then I guess you have to change everything in the cell menu.
acutally i like the stress test, it pushes my cpu temp about 3C higher than any other stress test. but your right orthos is what i use for detecting errors. and playing games to see if it locks up.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
the one it came with, 1.1 or 1.2, either way i dont wanna change it until i know which is the best for k8, any recommendations?Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
you know how you can see the temps of like 8 different things in the taskbar in the bottom right corner, none of them would show up. or if you go to computer > senser, i get a detecting sensor information thing pop up, and my cpu is at 50% load till i close out everest completely. as well as the cache memory benchmark does nothing, and everest's cpuid does nothing as well. and loading up any of those "popup" windows then makes the main everest window lock up. by loading the stress test it looks fine but half the stuff is missing, and once i close same problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
but simply by loading atitool, it switches from 2d to 3d clocks for my video card, 2900xt, and presto, everest is working perfectly, until i restart.
Hello.
My Phenom BE won't go past 2,6GHz either, and 2,6GHz is not stable in the long run... and it needs a bit of voltage to make a 3dmark run at it:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/4...zphenomup0.jpg
Even at that voltage if I raise it to 2,7GHz it will instantly freeze.
Main components / details:
MSI K9A2 Platinum (BIOS 1.1, tried 1.2 too)
Phenom 9600 BE + Scythe Ninja
Sapphire HD3850 Crossfire
4 * OCZ Platinum PC2-6400 1GB
Antec NeoHE 550W
Vista 32-bit
AMD Overdrive 2.0.14 beta (tried earlier versions too)
PS. I know in the pic the HT voltage is high and there is no need for it, it was just left there back when I run the 3dmark after testing and stuff. It makes no difference since with that run I had only raised the multiplier.
PPS. For those too tired to open links:
HD960ZWCJ4BGD
CAAWB AA 0747MPMW
My last 9600 BE: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=569
OPN: HD960ZWCGDBOX
CAAWB 0747MPMW
My new one:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2...2053pm7.th.png http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1...2054pm9.th.png http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6...2055px3.th.jpg
Hahaha :lol:
OPN: HD960ZWCGDBOX
CAAWB 0747MPMW
Man, they only had this batch/week/OPN there when I picked it up, every one of them spare was this. It's the exact same coded one I had before, I have yet to boot it up and check what the stock voltages/te,mps/power/vid are and if it reacts the same as my other one. Would be a very good checkup for "this stepping/week/OPN is [insert comment]" don't you think? ;)
Also, both of these had a 2mm^2 dull metallic rough spot looking like a "pencil smudge" in the middle of the IHS. Did anyone else get something like this with their Phenom?
Hmm.. I wonder why though, the SB600 has given more problems than the Promise. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by SQjay
Don't plan to really.. you don't want to know, do you? :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
I need Admin to restrict me from posting unless I can verify a 3GHz Phenom. Maybe then I can actually start trying with this.... although that time may never come on earth unless I swap my C2Q in there somehow :D
Thanks Swanie. You can move the HT slider up though. Tried it yet? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanie
(don't try above 2.6 HT, it'll lockup)
Have you tried lower RAM divider than 1.2.66 ? Do they work?
What about any other options like NB multi, NB VID, CPU VID, are they available in the BIOS like the older ones, or totally removed?
Same as the P0F and P0G then. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanie
No options for most of P-State variables as we had before in the new BIOSes. Very few oc options now.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
None of the 'Performance' BIOSes have been any decent for me since P0C. I wonder why this is.
Are you sure about this? Try P95 latest one which is 25.6 IIRC. I highly doubt anything will come near its power pull, load and hence what creates the high temps apart from Linpack. Orthos is IME 12W lower full load than P95 small FFT on the Phenoms with lower temps and easier to pass too, although it is supposed to be based on the same code, there are many bug and performance improvements with P95.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
No idea about 1.2. 1.31 BETA was excellent for X2 when I tried it, better than 1.0 and 1.1. ;)Quote:
the one it came with, 1.1 or 1.2, either way i dont wanna change it until i know which is the best for k8, any recommendations?
Then we now know why it's BETA. :DQuote:
[i]you know how you can see the temps of like 8 different things in the taskbar in the bottom right corner, none of them would show up. [ii]or if you go to computer > senser, i get a detecting sensor information thing pop up, and my cpu is at 50% load till i close out everest completely. [iii]as well as the cache memory benchmark does nothing, and everest's cpuid does nothing as well. and loading up any of those "popup" windows then makes the main everest window lock up. by loading the stress test it looks fine but half the stuff is missing, and once i close same problem.
Try a stable release if you can instead but the temps/volts info should be provided with HWMonitor/CoreTemps perfectly anyway.
Well, it could be program incompatibility or just an incompatibility bug. Maybe they are both accessing and sharing the same resources, this can cause such freak behavior.Quote:
but simply by loading atitool, it switches from 2d to 3d clocks for my video card, 2900xt, and presto, everest is working perfectly, until i restart.
Hey Suosaaski, wlecome. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Suosaaski
First the bad news...
Damn that is the exact chip I've had twice now and yes, those VID/Volatges will be pulling mega power. Almost the Quad FX again here. :p:
Can you do something for me on Vista... at 2.4GHz run Super Pi Mod 1.5 XS 1M and post it back please.
(run it about 3 times before capturing ss of the last one)
LOL nice same stepping transfer :D
Yea I want to know why your are gonna try this one seeing is it's the same as the other lol...
That sucks there taking away the ocing options.
Yea I only had 238 post here in the last 4 yrs and for some reason in the last month or 2 I have almost posted half that many maybe I need to start trying to overclock this thing again, I kinda stopped for alittle while as my PPD on my team was dropping.
LMK if you figure out a way to make the q6600 fit in the board as an homemade adapter would rock let along it may even top the p35 board.
I have had more random freezes at idle then I have at full load and it's weird because most of the time it's just playing around on the desktop after priming for a few hours. Kinda like it hits a vdroop or something as freezes. I really wish I woulda replace the stock thermal goop on the boards cooling before I installed the board.
Using stock 9600 BE cooling.
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/577...2047lx6.th.jpg http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/3...2048nf1.th.jpg http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1...2049xe9.th.jpg http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/991...2050fl8.th.jpg http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/6...2051tx1.th.jpg http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2...2052uj6.th.jpg
Ambient is too hot and until I get a 3rd party fan on it, I'm not comfortable. My room ambient is 29C.
This ones better, much better, although stock is 1.24V. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
2.7GHz bootup first time 1.392V BIOS 1.408V Windows 1.25VID 200HT 14x multi. Boots 1.28V to although not stable running benchmarks as >1.325V is.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/1...fdfdgv7.th.jpg
Running this right now having thrown my ambients sub16C with a 152CFM delta fan as well, bootup was before all this, and hasn't failed inside 20mins P95 yet (drop is 1.312V).
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3...dsdseu8.th.jpg
2.8GHz booted using just multi but froze on ss. Will need more volts/cooling maybe. 2.7GHz looks to be within 24/7 stability reach.
There goes the stepping/batch/week coding dogma straight out of the window. :p:
Also meant to say mine did have a grayish area right in the center but I didn't notice it till after I changed from stock cooling to aftermarked but it wouldn't rub off.
nice 2.7 stable would be great.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Ill second that:D
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...a/HPIM0665.jpg
Hehehhe just add water.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...a/HPIM0670.jpg
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...400B21bios.jpg
Dont worry, Ive been to 2.56ghz alreadbut my Ts770 has bios issues..I cant change the Multi's becuase the Biostar option for NPT FID is broken..I do have mod Bios from Polygon and will be cranking this thing into flying mode..i like 747's,, at first people said they wouldnt fly,,but now thier everywhere 40years later:ROTF:Ill be testing all week...
Definitely some randomness to this CPU, CPU to CPU that is .Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Hey KTE....
Just wanted to let you know, I tried the settings you suggested (the ones Swanie quoted above). You didn't mention the HT multi, so I tried it matching NB multi and -1 from NB. Set CPU Vid to 1.25 and vddc to 1.475, HT v's to 1.25 and NB to 1.2v's..... The results wern't very good. :(
The only one that would even post was 7x 260HT 10x, and it wouldn't make it into windows. Froze on a black screen with a working pointer....
One strange thing I've noticed is I can get a pretty decent OC using AOD ~2.65, that seems fairly stable, but if I apply those same settings in bios my machine will post but won't make it into Windows (Same black screen problem)... Maybe the Catalyst drivers?
I wonder if anyone using an Nvidia card has experienced these same problems...
anyone tried lapping their processors yet ? to see if you gain something in terms of cooling efficiency ? BTW great thread KTE , i almost wanna get the combo just to play with it , but i think ill hold off till maybe B3s arrive and see what they bring to the table , otherwise , penryn will be the choice of the day .
umm 239 bux no not gonna lap the cpu but the xp-90c was done with 200-600-1200-2000 before it was installed :D
Very nice gOtVoltage :D
What was your stock CPU VID and VCore?
Well well guys, the chip limit has been found.
First of all, this is the best one I've had so far, absolutely working as it should, no problems whatsoever and things are easy to figure out as they should be even when oc'ing. I just wish they would all work like this though. Chip without CnQ runs quite cool fully loaded even on stock HSF at 27C ambient, far cooler than the Kenstfields and Penryn QXs are running at totally stock let alone oc'd. This is a big relief for people like me who loathe bad temps throughout climates and travels and don't waste much more than "common" air cooling to test the temps when it has to apply to majorities, though better cooling is easily available (remember, I do work on charities for a good part of every year and those poor/sickly/elderly/disabled and various centers for them are what I'm thinking of adjacently). You might have seen my Q6600 G0 benches 4.25GHz air good, the more cooling and voltage you apply, the further it's scaling, which is very good for an IC m.arch. Someone with DICE/phase/semi-decent WC should be able to break near its limit of 4480MHz ... but at just 1.2V 2.4G, it is already running too hot stock stability tested with 22C ambients to really leave it much room for any of the systems at my uni or work places to oc apart from the odd uber expensive rigs. It reached ~65C stock with the Zalman at full speed and those ambients were lower than what I usually stability test at since 74C would make it lockup. Basically the same problems we had with P4 Prescott where my 3G ran at 1.264V 3.6G but blimey, the heat buildup was insane. Why is this? Well, Intel has uptil now, starting with P4, still, always been limited by TDPs for further speed bins every product cycle, and that behavior continues. Whilst for AMD, it has usually been a premature IC limit saturated and not cooling/voltage as the hold back although TDP may have been simultaneously high too.
Anyway, I've had no problems with this chip at all, everything I've tried so far makes logical sense, no :wth: happenings here... yet. ;)
To the OC
Booted fully loaded idling at XP SP3 desktop into Windows (services/AV/FW running yet) 3GHz, 2.9GHz and 2.8GHz using multi and using HT+multi around 3 times each, hehe, about 3hrs30mins ago (too many 3somes, I know :p:), can still do it now but as soon as I touch CPUZ, a reboot ensues. Once I cut down on the services/processes and the unusually long logon time (a disabled service), with the Zalman HSF, with the best old BIOS so far, I'll give them a shot again but they're pointless attempts to me since they can never be ran normally or be close to stable runners. :)
Well, that's considering booting CPU 1.25VID since they've removed AM2+ P-States options from the BIOS in the one I'm using. Now do you see why I wouldn't write an oc guide? ;)
In the BIOS, 3GHz boot-up looks like this:
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2...2059wm1.th.jpg http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6...2064tp7.th.jpg
Me thinks its AOD Assistant after boot-up which makes it reboot that quick idling, especially when the most heavy load (close to 100%) part of boot-up has already long finished. This is another test left yet for when I have time...
Max fully stable, rock solid is also the max validated: 2756MHz @ 1.25VID 1.280V (2hr P95 stopped) but I need to bump it up one V notch for perfect stability and peace of mind, I'm sure (you need to be diligent and take into account most PSUs cannot give out their rated output above 40C and will only provide 80% of the max wattage from 40-50C, and at these temps, you are going to see further falls in load line voltages/efficiency which can definitely cause CPUs to fail stability testing)..
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=302096
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5273/2756oa5.jpg
We need NB VID/Multi changing again. The minute I get the BIOS with those options, I'll test what's holding the chip back better, but it won't do much more stable air cooled that's for sure.
However, I don't particularly like being 10MHz shy of the max CPU limit regular, so 2700MHz is the best option for me. By using 12x multi, it's damn easy to get stable at 1.280V but RAM still runs only DDR2-1066 5-5-5-15 (lowest timings I have options for), thus I've oc'd the HT to 225MHz x 12 = 2700MHz for DDR2-1200 5-5-5-15. Perfect combo IMO, and again, rock solid.
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=302094
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/2848/2700hc4.jpg
Brother Esau, I recall you and BadNizze asked about DDR2-1200 with Phenom-> I run exactly those DDR2 settings/timings with the C2s and on this platform as well now. No problems just like on there. Here's a "semi-TLB-patched" 1200, high timings (lowest options I have) EVEREST run for you. ;)
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1743/27g600bwce3.jpg
By "semi" I mean, WinRAR/Cinebench/POV-Ray/EVEREST/wPrime/Super Pi are still short of standard speed, in the case of Super Pi 1M for instance, it's running 2 seconds slower than it should be if the patch was unapplied (at any given frequency).
Just think what that would be like, had they given me 3-4-4-4 1T 1066 options. :slobber:
I will run a 24hr load test to ensure the above settings are as good as the 2hr test+30min gaming showed and just in case, I will put it to 1.320V idle settings to see power/temps with >22C ambient and stock AMD cooling -> they need to remain within decent specs to run regular and be acceptable. :)
BTW, I need 1.305V BIOS which gives me 1.320V Windows idle and 1.288V load to get 2.756GHz perfectly stable. I'm using a crap BIOS ATM, it has the TLB fix option but still... the performance is very bad with it (AOD button'd or or not). Typically 30-80% of the expected and what was achieved with older better BETA BIOSes. Some screenies follow ->
Full settings/idle temps/volts @ (200x13.5) 2.7G-1066:
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9...1305qp8.th.jpg
wPrime v1.55 32M and 1024M:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8...ullyjq0.th.jpg
Max stable:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/459/2756af2.jpg
Best settings I've been running since then:
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7378/2700600in0.jpg
Current 2.7G wPrime 32M:
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7...00wp32mzu6.jpg
Power Consumption and Heat:
Despite the worse performing stock AMD HSF (although I like it's size), idling heat is lower than on the previous 9600s and 9600 BE I had, & idling stock wattage at 25C ambient is 102W AC, load is 177W AC (no CnQ). However, applying a tad bit of volts does increase the power and heat by quite a margin near to the coolings handling capacity. You can still however run my chip at up to 2.756G at 1.32V fully stable using the stock AMD HSF and stay within good operating temperatures at up to 28C heatsink ambient that I've tested. More than 1.35V 1.25VID and you'll be pushing into going >55C load temps and idling >36C.
1.25VID 1.57V at 2.75GHz hits a maximum full load power draw at 296W AC. The chip hates anything above 1.48V though.
Problems!!
*The inevitable. This board, not my PSU, this board fluctuates voltages like crazy and BIOS settings do not always transpire into the same in Windows settings for voltages. I set 2.2V DIMM and I booted to find them at 1.8V 1066. I set 1.305V Core and I boot to find it at 1.320V idle/1.288V load. I then standby for 20 minutes and rewake it to find the idling VCore at 1.352V and load at 1.328V. Naturally this affects temps/power/stability quite a bit. Watch out. Keep monitoring closely before you conclude your chip is unstable at "x" settings.
*Why such big voltage intervals? I mean 1.21V (1.24V real) then to 1.305V (1.32V real)? We need to have these lower and NB/CPU VID/FID options in the BIOS.
Ditto Jack, large variations between CPU of the same batch and week. However, there still seems to be the same average limits, 2.75G was attainable with my 9500 anyway. Some seem just better than others but some silicon seems buggy yet.
Daveburt714: I was experiencing that before, it's caused by Catalyst Control Center (Start CCC loading on startup)-> try and get rid of it from starting up and you might be OK, like I was later. :D
|3ourne: no I haven't mainly because they're not mine and you never know when one of these starts acting erratic, like my last, in which case you'd need to RMA or lose out. ;)
I also want to sell them for a decent price pristine new condition, so no modding permissible. Only mod I did was on the 1st 9500, I embedded a thermal probe within the center of the IHS so its flush with the IHS base to try and check software temperatures against those probe values.
Thanks. :)
Now lets see some 8hr Prime 95 runs guys:cheer:
1.25v Stock Vcore and 11.5 multi. i have no way to use the CPU multi on Ts770 yet. Did get into safe mode @ 2.64mhz and 230FSB with auto Cpu multi and every thing on auto:shakes: Still playing around with it. I dont know if the temps are correct but im on water and my Rads are Ice cold so 12c idle @2.4ghz and 14c idle @2.65ghz:shrug:
Coming up next with ease, don't worry. I've not had past an hour or so to play with the Phenom yet, maybe even less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Esau
Is 1.25VID or VCore? It is usually the VID, I don't think Phenom has an option for 1.25VCore at 1.2/1.25VID, only 1.232V and 1.240.Quote:
Originally Posted by gOtVoltage
Temps> how lower than ambient are those readings? Do full load P95 and what temps does it give you?
KTE... In my Bios i can set Vcore to 1.55v if i wish...Stock is 1.25vid/1.25vcor up to 1.55v,, the HT is 1.15v and NB/SB 1.20v..The Ts770 has some nice features but the Bios needs serious tweaking! I havnt had a chance to Prime yet..Ive been testing 5 different MOD bioses the last two days..Since i cant use the NPTFID/mutiplyer function i was over clocking it like you do a 9500! Also i can only run memory @400mhz cant change dividers..So id say ,im shocked i saw 2.65ghz,,Biostar Bios is suppose to be unlocked for B.E.'s but is broken..This includes the 5000+BE too..
OK. Is 1.25V (core) what you set in BIOS or what you get real through DMM measurements or what your Super I/O chip reads in Windows idle (i.e. AOD/EVEREST/HWMonitor) ?
Nice results I guess the same stepping had nothing to do with the way it overclocked :D
wow. wonder if it was the bios or the chip did you try the 113 betas again with the new chip?
It's the chip, very clearly :yepp:
The BIOS is the same one as used on the last chip.
Nope, not tried the better older BIOSes yet. Can't do until I have many hours P95/game stable with these setting/cooling. Only tried stock CPU VID/NB VID/NB Multi yet and not tested HT ref yet at all. Cooling is also quite bad in high ambients.
It's nearly 5hrs P95 stable ATM, still running -> stock boxed HSF only. But I'm at work and the machine is in a different room so can't play with it until after work now. ;)
What is the best BIOS for the K9A2 and the Phenom?
KTE may I ask you how I can locate that superio chip. I have an osciloscope here for a week. :) EDIT: nevermind found it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
BTW: You remeber the intel rig I have to build for an employee. His neighbor works at intel and he came up with an qx6850 for free. I wonder what it's tdp at 2,2GHz will be.
All VId/DID options are gone in the new beta. I have tried that divider but my system don't boot. Running Mushkin as you know. The only time it boots with that divider is at default speed @ 1066mhz. Will try to play with the slider. got my machine to boot at 2760 and was running Prime the past 24 hours and all was ok but then tried 3mark06 and pc froze, then no bootQuote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Yea one thing I noticed the other day while testing is even if it is prime, 3dmark stable doesn't mean you want have a cold boot issue as I think thats what it would be.
Justapost if you want a good OCing chip like KTE you will have to try as many as he has which I think is around 4-6 now :D
I could... if the main page wouldn't time out when trying to open it. So will try it later.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Note that my system or os is not optimized in anyway, and I have F-Secure Antivirus which is not the lightest by any means, so when I do test it, it might not perform at the level expected :)
nevermind
How are the Bios turning out from M.S.I guys? Also on the more recent beta releases has anyone using Dual Core noticed that the new Bios is not quite close to as good for Dual core as the first releases were?
Don't know if this is a DFI thing or if its common for all boards with recent Bios coding?:shrug:
NOT to swell IMO according to what I can tell there isn't anything better then the 1.13 betas. Which is the 1st or one of the 1st betas...
I'm gonna give 1.3 a shot if they will ever release it :D
I agree with you Jonspd... I flashed v1.2 Release version tonight, and although it does seem a little more stable, the performance hit seems pretty bad... All I did was a few Sandra test but it was a pretty big hit, even with AOD on Yellow&Red, Mem Bandwidth dropped below 9000 (I've hit 11k stable!) .... :(
I've only played with it for a couple hours, but I still can't boot at 260x10, looks like ~255 HT might be do-able but theres no way it's gonna make up for the TLB patch hit...
Oh well, I'll give it a few days... :up:
Hehe, yeah, so. :(
I was gaming and then started running P95 yesterday... nothing errored. I've never found instability not caught by bench>game>memtest>12hr P95 in anything so far. Folding loads are no good for testing 100% stability IME because it never picks up the errors there and then to give you a visual output and stop the load with critical/small core errors (i.e. prime number calc catches the tiniest of computational error in a rounding up), instead they just carry on like many benchmarks. I tested this with the Phenom 9500 intentionally unstable at 2.560G earlier, no errors appeared, although it is a constant static load, good for testing ideal load temperatures, power and 75% stability when at 100% each core, first priority. I want to try Linpack preferably if I could get it too run on this machine (?). Anyway, I then had to leave P95 at full load, with front priority, finishing off HL2: LC.
It ran 28C ambient, stock boxed fan and the load temps were ~54C 2.7G @ 1.25VID, 1.305V BIOS/1.336V OS Idle/1.328V OS load @ 230W AC.
BIOS is bad, after 1.21V I only get a 1.305V option which is selectable. But I've noticed with Phenoms, VCore offering is chip dependent. At times 1.30V gives me 1.33V or 1.32V and at other times it'll give me 1.344V. :shrug:
The minute I was set to go away, a USB port shorted (this is a daily problem with this board, anyone else experience it?) and I had monitoring tools set up so found the +5V and +12V rails sagged to +11.75V and +4.76V from +11.98V and +4.98V for a slight second. At that time, you guessed it, CPU VCore dropped to 1.264V and Core 0 failed prime instantly in that second at 5hr25min. :(
Since then, I let the rest of the cores which never failed all run on without any more voltage drops. All the rest of the 3 cores which withstood the 1.264V sag were fully stable at the +11hr mark.
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3...2700lm1.th.png
YES I tried to give my 2x 102CFM delta's a 1500RPM whirl there at 21C ambient :p:
BUT, then I was busy and away. The explanation of that failure is pretty clear : large +12V rail fluctuation. Will it fail without this bad fluctuation?
Now was night time, aka my time, and I've since then stopped and restarted P95 straight away. If there is no lengthy spike now (meaning not transient fluctuations which are common with electrical systems, but one holding for more than 1s, which is lengthy -- I've left that USB hub free), it shouldn't fail even up to 1.28V load across the cores, like I said. I'm waited for it to. ;)
Even if it did fail because the CPU was unstable, let us say for instance, I have CPU VID, CPU volts, NB Multi, HT multi, NB VID, NB/HT volts still to touch apart from the first and there is ample room ahead.
+8hr Testing Results
So I tested:
1) Power cycling, hot and cold.
2) Cool 'n' Quiet.
3) Start-stop full load fluctuations.
4) Gaming.
5) Idling.
a) 25C ambient with stock box fan at full speed.
b) Adding a 120mm 1000RPM fan (v.low noise) at 25C ambient to the system (exhaust).
c) Then test by moving it up to 3000RPM 152CFM at 25C ambient.
d) Then keep fans at max and drop the ambient to 18C. ;)
One thing you'll notice: Power draw falls with lower core temps. VCore will increase with lower core temps. ;)
1) Passed without any issues each time.
2) Don't enable it even if BIOS oc'ing, no point and messes up the stability in my case.
3) No problems experienced.
4) No problems at all.
5) Nothing odd experienced.
a) http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8...ck24ro9.th.png
225 x 12 = 2.7G @ 1.25VID 1.305V BIOS/1.336V idle/1.320V load
2.025G NB @ 1.25VID
2.025G HT @ 1.2V
DDR2-1200 5-5-5-15-28-75 2T @ 2.2V
Max temps: 51C, 51C, 51C, 51C
Power: 111W AC idle, 239W AC load
b) http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/2...wcfmmd9.th.png
225 x 12 = 2.7G @ 1.25VID 1.305V BIOS/1.336V idle/1.328V load
2.025G NB @ 1.25VID
2.025G HT @ 1.2V
DDR2-1200 5-5-5-15-28-75 2T @ 2.2V
Max temps: 45C, 45C, 45C, 45C
Power: 111W AC idle, 236W AC load
c) http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9...cffmks2.th.png
225 x 12 = 2.7G @ 1.25VID 1.305V BIOS/1.336V idle/1.328V load
2.025G NB @ 1.25VID
2.025G HT @ 1.2V
DDR2-1200 5-5-5-15-28-75 2T @ 2.2V
Max temps: 38C, 38C, 38C, 38C
Power: 111W AC idle, 230W AC load
d) http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3...wambks4.th.png
225 x 12 = 2.7G @ 1.25VID 1.305V BIOS/1.336V idle/1.328V load
2.025G NB @ 1.25VID
2.025G HT @ 1.2V
DDR2-1200 5-5-5-15-28-75 2T @ 2.2V
Max temps: 31C, 31C, 31C, 31C
Power: 111W AC idle, 225W AC load
Stopped @ 8hr 38mins stable:
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/968...ck24sg7.th.png
Didn't I say it was easily stable? ;)
One thing I will mention though -> whatever you get, don't run above 2G NB with stock volts, it won't last long (as my 9500 witnessed) and it'll mess your core oc'ing up. I won't be running more than 2G NB until I flash the older BIOS which'll let me put 1.265VID on it to run that speed.
Another note: Jack mentioned something to me earlier and he was right. The stock AMD 9600 BE boxed fan cannot handle overclocking and the heatload produced by it when you raise volts slightly. It will overheat itself and the cores very quickly, touch around it at 50C and the heat is very easily felt, pipes will be all hot, because the measly fan cannot remove the heat quick enough... core temps will thus FLY high.
New TDP to be dissipated: ~130W
BUT, here's how too see the bottleneck:
Add a 500RPM-3000RPM 120mm fan near by and watch the core temps drop 8-20C across the cores. :yepp:
3rd party coolers will show much better load handling and temperatures, but at least we know that the temperature probes are working. I managed to get a 74C load if I set the stock fanspeed to low at 1.4V load (which makes the system shut down for safety).
AND if you're going plus 64C, stability testing may error at any time just because of the heat. Cores don't like it, simply put, like Wolfdales hating plus 55C.
And in case you didn't already know, AMD Power Monitor only detects bootup Multiplier and VID changes for its shown frequencies.
SScchittenn my USSB porrt (keybooardd) hass fflocked up agaain. Ccoreess hhaveen't faailed though but VCCoree ddid ddrrop to 1.296V. Noww this iss hoow my keeyboard is typinn eveery leetterr :D :D
Taakiing mee 2200minss too type oneee linee heree :(
Depends what you're looking for with it. For OC I would say 1.13 BETA (113) is best so far without any patch and excellent system performance (compared to the rest).Quote:
Originally Posted by jesteronyer6
You can find it listed in the manual; I've checked and informal in your M3A thread has given you the details by now. You'll have to search for the Super I/O IC electrical datasheet and how the chip works to find out the relevant pin mappings and their corresponding readings (many add calibrated values mentioned).Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
Yep.. hmm. 2.2G TDP depends entirely on the volts and VID required to get it 100% stable really. Should be fairly low but that depends on the starting VCore and obviously, the chips capability itself.Quote:
BTW: You remeber the intel rig I have to build for an employee. His neighbor works at intel and he came up with an qx6850 for free. I wonder what it's tdp at 2,2GHz will be.
Are you sure? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanie
Let me tell you why I'm asking: 2k6 is absolutely no where near as extreme loading as P95 is. P95 load you won't find anywhere else but with the EVEREST FPU Julia bench and Linpack on the desktop that I've tested so far. There are science apps which load the system a few watts more but not many. This is why you have uber fast 2k6 records, because 4G stable and 4.5G suicide validated can still usually bench 4.35G 2k6 and 4.25G 2k5. ;)
What that mean is, something oddly wrong is occurring with your stability/chip at those frequencies/voltages. Make sure you're not topping 1.48V, Phenom doesn't seem to like it at all. :)
That occurs only with my systems if it isn't 100% stable but stable only at lucky times. Like I mentioned, my 9500 was like this at 2.8G boot, once +8hr stable but many times it won't even boot at those speeds and runs badly in even little taxing games.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
Or, you can buy a 9500, much better chance of getting a decent chip. This one is still not better than my 9500, not even close. That did 2.8G benched at stock volts. :DQuote:
Justapost if you want a good OCing chip like KTE you will have to try as many as he has which I think is around 4-6 now :D
Yep, for me too. Here ya go: Attachment 71283Quote:
Originally Posted by Suosaaski
Try to stop/pause other applications in the background or set their affinity to other cores for best results.
Not too sure with K8, but this board has had about 15 BIOSes now that I'm aware of. Lately things have moved on and I hope, if what I hear is true, that they'll bring back the AM2+ options but just in a friendlier format.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Esau
:)
BTW, I run AMD stock cooler SMART fan controlled (BIOS lowest speed = 0%) set to keep sub 45C, so basically, it's at 25-35C at 0-1000RPM nearly all the time with general loads and near whisper quiet whilst keeping good temps and raising speeds on demand. At 2.7G I'm talking about. You guys with this feature should try it. I have because I test pretty much all the boards features I can. ;)
Yes i am sure it was 3dmark06 but found the issue. It was 3dmark itself as when i tried to run it again it gave me errors- Vista/3dmark issues perhaps. Well only have this weekend to play with my 9500 as it is sold....waiting for my BE.
New bios released: 1.33
http://www.msi-forum.de/thread.php?t...user=0&page=13
LOL, atm i wait for a bios with a vcore setting. You can be sure I think about ways to introduce phenoms in our office to get a few more for testing but it's oversized atm.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
You mean the vcore cpuz reports i guess. With lower temps phenom seems to be stable with lower cpu/nb vid and vcore settings here.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
congratulations to your new results 2-7-2,8GHz stable was what i expected from the be.
During watch Speedfan charts I found that the CPU temps has seldome peaks about 5° above the average (swinging in +-1° range). Peaks should be higher with stock cooling as I used watercooling. Thouse can be the source of hangupsQuote:
Originally Posted by KTE
You have a few typos here.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Yeah thanks I thought the superio chips is different from the chips I called clockchip and informal already pointed me in the right direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
If the co-worker could decide wheter he wants an X38 or an P35 chipset and needs additional DDR3 sockets for better lifetime i'd already test that cpu here. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Little OT but do you know if the X38 is more power efficient?
Thats not typos that's what his usb port is causing him to type when regularly using it.....:D
OK. Let us know how the BE goes :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanie
Ah, that makes it 16 BIOSes now but these last 10 or so really do have bad perf. I'll see what I can do about this. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanie
I'll hopefully test 1.33/P0H tonight before moving back to 1.13.
Did you know, VCore is linked to VID? If you're at a high VID, you can't have a low VCore. Lowest VCore at 1.55VID is 1.48V BTW. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
How many BIOS releases has ASUS provided you yet?
AOD/EVEREST/HWM/DMM VCore. ;)Quote:
You mean the vcore cpuz reports i guess. With lower temps phenom seems to be stable with lower cpu/nb vid and vcore settings here.
CPUZ hardly picks up my VCore. Yep, lower temps help with everything in an IC, it is scientifically true.
Thanks but it's the chip rather than me. :)Quote:
congratulations to your new results 2-7-2,8GHz stable was what i expected from the be.
I could've got one that only did 2.3G but again, that would've been the chip itself. I just hope users paying would get at least this much out of Phenom BE, I reckon it would be far better than what we see at present. I mean, I have even ran my RAM >1300 with Phenom, so it is worth it especially when you have NB/HT at 2.5G too.
All that shows is, the heat produced by the core is low, only some decent air cooling is needed to be able to oc it. WC usually gets higher oc than air simply by its higher thermal capacitive nature.Quote:
During watch Speedfan charts I found that the CPU temps has seldome peaks about 5° above the average (swinging in +-1° range). Peaks should be higher with stock cooling as I used watercooling. Thouse can be the source of hangups
Yep :lol:Quote:
You have a few typos here.
Do you mean the MB PLL?Quote:
Yeah thanks I thought the superio chips is different from the chips I called clockchip and informal already pointed me in the right direction.
X38 is a power hog compared to all the latest Intel/AMD chipsets right now. 36.5W TDP whilst P35 is a 16W TDP chip. P35 is a very good offering, one of the biggest boosters of Intel sales in Q3/Q4 '07.Quote:
If the co-worker could decide wheter he wants an X38 or an P35 chipset and needs additional DDR3 sockets for better lifetime i'd already test that cpu here. :D
Little OT but do you know if the X38 is more power efficient?
KTE did you get my p.m?
I have pretty much found my chips max. Gonna try to get it stable around 2.65 2.68 but for now I'm pretty sure 2.62 is my max.
16 beta releases huh? Something tells me that from what I see D.F.I is sweeping this board under the rug:rolleyes: All of the Bios that have been written for this board after 11/22/07 suck and are half assed attempts more than likely just for show:rolleyes:
thats not good for DFI as I thought there where more enthusiast related over any other mobo producer....
They are but I call a spade a spade and tell it as I see it!
Thats another reason I would not even consider the Phenom right now, not even just to help Debug the damn thing is because of the lack of effort and quality displayed by DFI right now from the Bios team appointed to Bios coding for AMD atm .
Found this on the asus homepage.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
If phenom behaves similar that explains why the vcore drop is lower (vcore higher) with lower temps as the current consumption of the cpu will be lower.Quote:
Question
Both Asus and third-party utilities such as PcProbII/AISuite/CPUZ shows that my CPU Vcore reading drops as the CPU load goes up.
This also happens after I set CPU Vcore to a set value instead of the preset [AUTO]. Why does the motherboard act like this?
Will this effect the overall stability of my system?
Answer
As Intel specification clearly states Vcc (CPU Vcore) should drop in propotonal to the increase of Icc (CPU current consumption), in order to prevent causing permanent damage to your CPU. When CPU is under stress (in other words, under higher load), the current consumption of the CPU will go up, and the CPU Vcore will then drop to conpensate this change. This is a perfectly normal behaviour, and will not effect the overall stability of your system.
For more information, please refer to Intel CPU datashee, under "DC Voltage and Current Specification".
Good chips need skilled users. AMD should preselect the good ones and sell em for a higher price.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
That is true. I have exactly one +5-8° peak here in 15 minutes prime95. Mounted aircooling now will see if this peak is still there.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Yep. MB PLL must be controlled by the super-io chip. That's what i deduce from the fact that one has to select that chip in for example systool or clockgen to modify the ref HT/fsb.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Thanks that's what I thought also. Was bushed by the EPU feature on some asus boards resulting in the same consumption than an p35 mobo.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Anyone have a link to 1.13 or to all of the BETA BIOS's archived somewhere?
It's true. CPU manufacturers implement Vcc drop across the cores through the VRM circuitry due to high load Icc, and the colder it is, the higher the Icc values due to less leakage, quicker on off transitions, quicker switching transistor speeds with less resistance -> higher voltage, less heat, less power. But Vdroop/Vdrop doesn't necessarily exist in the amounts you want in all boards, which is why ASUS provides the option of "load line calibration" and "voltage damper" to avoid it, because when overclocking, too many times Vdroop is much more than it should be for perfect stability at those particular settings, surpassing the low limit core voltage for stability, i.e. 1.3V idle -> 1.25V load, when you need 1.265V minimum load for perfect stability. So to limit this droop to less is good for oc and finding oc stability. Things get complicated when you complain about Vdrop and Vdroop for no reason, i.e. why does Vcore idle so high (which is good actually, provides a large offset from the low limit which'll cause instability).
We've had 16 BIOSes that I know of, including 3 official final releases, and another one coming up soon. ;)
Here's 1.13 BETA jesteronyer6: 1.13 BETA
We've had 16 BIOSes that I know of, including 3 official final releases, and another one coming up soon. ;)
You suck:p:
Thanks KTE !
You're welcome. Let me know how it goes for you. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jesteronyer6
Thank you :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Brother Esau
Those 3 letters were wrote with magic ink, right? I'm pretty sure I can decode them... let me think -> DFI
:p:
One last Q is what is the best method for flashing these MSI boards, in the past I used winflash.
I always just use an FDD with the AFUD412 or AFUD418 flash tools. Easy and safe.
I'm wondering if burning in this thing will help at all?
the only problem I see with it is as I stated in prior instances it always froze without a load on it at high clock speeds.
Yea know find the max stable at XXXX mhz with X.XX vcore and then drop the vcore .01 and load it up with 4 toast instances or with cpu burnin.
continuing to work the vcore downwards/
not that I'm tring it or anything:rofl: :ROTF:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.p...ntentials+Burn there used to be a guide here
Well, did you not read me mention it a few times already?
If your system locks up randomly at idle but not in load, so did all mine, this one boots 2.8G and locks up only idling. You know why? Instability. :yepp:
That's why I did idle, load-idle-load fluctuation testing above.
You need to add NB volts or lower the NB speed to sub 1.9G and you'll have it stable. ;)
Testing BIOS BETA 133.
Pros
*Excellent addition. Can now POST and run perfectly ALL RAM dividers, including 1066 at 200HT. 800 is stock.
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6949/133bl3.png
Cons
*TLB patch applied by default without removable option. :(
*No AM2+ P-State options that we need.
BTW, I'm not sure if I've mentioned it in this thread yet but VIDs are basically VCore OFFSET values, meaning, each VID allows a certain range of CPU Volts. The lower the VID, the lower the VCore available and the higher the VID, the higher the VCore available. :)
KTE +1 nice job...Now only if the Ts770 had working memory functions like above:D
Does the Unlocked NPTFID work or do they even have it in the Bios?
I did about 5 times already LOL :clap:
Man when are they gonna release a new bios with the ability to enable and disable the TLB patch....
Gonna try what you stated but ATM I'm happy at 2.6 / 1.41v stable. Not high HT ref tho its 11.5x226, 2k on NB and HT, ram at 902 4 4 4 15.
nice 1066 fixed...
can you post a compare of this bios vs the 1.13 at same speeds...
like an old setting/pic you already did
BIOSes are out, at least 3 which have the option to enable/disable patch. ;)
Even though the disabled option still doesn't return the performance of the no patch versions.
New BIOSes don't have the options for NB FID/VID/DID. :(
Can we disable the fix via crystalcpu with a enabled patched bios?
is that possible?
Nice onward to 11.5x235 now thanks to you.
Of course, it's been covered many times before.. BUT the performance is still bad compared to non patched BIOS.
Totally non-patched BIOS is like this:
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5093/winzf1.th.jpg
With present BIOS at those settings, you're looking at 1/3 that performance. :(
Testing BIOS P0H
Pros
*Can now POST and run perfectly ALL RAM dividers, including 1066 at 200HT. 800 is stock.
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1997/p0htf9.png
Cons
*TLB patched but removable option there.
*No AM2+ P-State options that we need.
Same as BETA 133 in most cases for me but for the TLB option. :(
That just plan sucks 1/3 of a performance hit. Who in there right mind would run a bios that give them 1/4 less the performance across the board. I mean I cant under stand it. If the B3 stepping is fixed and you where to have a bios with the patch are you still going to be hit with the 1/4 loss?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Prozactly!:D
Cant say about worth of DFI Bios on Phenom end but for dual core they are getting worse!
16 Bios.......You Bastage:lol: You need to come to DFI arena I have already Knighted You:bsod: Now you're obligated!:toast2: better have 3 more...:toast2: :toast2: :toast2: don't forget the Pink TuTu either :rofl:
I thought it was paxiactly:ROTF: :rofl:
Bleh.......watered down rubbish:sick:Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
it works :D
Here's a direct comparison of the best of the new BIOSes (patched>turned off) compared to my favorite older BIOS - head-to-head WinRAR shootout at the same settings within 3-4 minutes of each other.
BIOS P0H (P0F is the same)
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/3241/p0h800hs3.png
BIOS 113 BETA
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9160/113ax3.png
See any difference? :p:
And now the OC fun begins. VIDs, DIDs, FIDs, what else... :D
1800.2 vs 1800.1 HT&NB :shrug:
Remind me not to try any new bios.....:mad:
nice!!
How can 230 be stable and 232 cause a BSOD no matter what NB, HT, and cpu vids. I didn't relax the ram but it's able to do ddr1000 at these timings.
I even did as you suggested and dropped the voltage and muilti's on the HT and NB all it did was make it easier to get to the desktop and not freeze up and 230-231 fsb.
I guess I must be close to the max of the cpu but prime doesn't error on core 3 or nothing just BSOD kinda like ram is outta spec....
I have ram at 127ns instead of what I was running 105ns
current 2+ hours into testing. time to drop core #4 off of prime so I can game.
http://www.jonspd.com/jonspd_uploads/screenies/test.JPG
any thoughts?
just be happy with 2.6ish?
NOT I want 2.7 its only like 50mhz away :D
Something I want to say is: those overclocks in reviews are totally hype. Single 30min and 1hour tests to consider something totally stable is just far from correct. Let alone after 2 hrs the temps will usually rise 1-3C across the cores. Why can't they leave everything at the same conditions and just run 5-10hr stability testing? It doesn't take long for a one off, it'll take 'em longer reading their daily IT gossip.;)
That's how core limits are surfaced. 1MHz difference->instability. :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
That's the blend test you're running, right? Run the small FFT for CPU if you want to find errors, blend is only if you don't know the RAM stability and want to test RAM mainly. CPU isn't tested/loaded as much at all.
However, IDK what your core limit is yet and IIRC you could hit 260HT, so I'm still doubting things here. To me, it looks like your RAM but you need to run Memtest and if you can't run bootable Memtest at those RAM settings due to them not being your bootable options, then stay in Windows, keep all software closed and run Systools Pi 32M 4-core multithread, highest priority, and if that passes then run RightMark Memory Stability Tester followed by in-windows Memtest (open two and set 700MB for each). If any fail with one error, set MaxAsyncLatency to 60 and close>open>try again.
Mine does 230HT pretty easily stable at 9x NB stock volts, same with 232HT and 234HT. However, that's the absolute limit for the NB at 1.25VID 9x = ~2.1GHz. Over that by 1MHz and it'll get NB instability showing up randomly.
Check this:
I undervolted CPU to 1.121VID 1.192V @ 200x12.5 = 2.5G and NB/HT to 1.112VID ~1.0V 1.8G.
Then ran P95 and played a game...
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/279...2067bg6.th.jpg
The system was quite stable in P95 and benchmarks... until I started my 2nd round of tests, load cycling. In any case, the power consumption was now much less, topping out at 151W AC. ;) What it means is that, I have headroom to undervolt at stock and when overclocked.
So right now I'm mainly testing the NB/CPU headroom... testing CPU 1.2VID 1.224V idle/1.208V load 2.3GHz and 1.3VID NB 2.4GHz. On 4 hrs now, fully stable. Last screenshot I took:
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6...ablear0.th.png
2.5G NB is next. ;)
I totally understand the 12-24hr full load prime testing and I would do it with both small and large as large is normally the 1st one I run the small I never run blend just run memtest via boot disk if I'm gonna check ram stability. It ran for 2 hours at over 1000mhz with 4 4 4 timings and 2.2vddim
I have another set coming this way some tracers. I have always done mediokra testing till I find where I really want to be at in terms of how things are running and how stable they are and what bench's/test show.
I have yet to try max fsb again I just wanted to get a fill of how high I can clock the cpu at what vid. I think my max cpu vid is about 1.45. I really wish I had hours on end to let this thing just run P95 and memtest but seeing is it's my primary rig I have to find the sweat spot or as close to it as I can and once that is done then it will.....
24hr prime
6 hour memtest
6 hour loop 3dmark
32mb superpi twice
I used to test by finding where it wasn't stable max and then coming down from there and thats kinda what I do but not like I used to as this thing has no desire to run 2.7 ghz LOL.
FORGOT to say 2.4ghz on nb:up: :up: :up:
Those should be more than stable. If its Memtest stable, I'm at loss why 232HT isn't but due to CPU requiring more volts, better cooling or just the CPU limit itself. :shrug:
But Phenoms are a little different so a few additional tests should be, power cycling, hot/cold reboots, standby/hibernate, let system idle. Overnight is best case for lengthy jobs.
NB speed is nothing, anyone should be able to get that and more. I've had 2.6G with the last one and this one should do it too. ;)
Need to test max HT ref, max NB, max stable on both as well as with high/low CPU multi and then max stable CPU frequencies, max benchable, best performance, sweet spot for 24/7 (if it can be better than the previous 2.7G one), temps/power at that sweet spot, lowest voltages for that sweet spot, lowest voltages/temps/power at stock speeds possible yet. I find more of an enthusiasm in undervolting than in overvolting actually. ;)
Temperature discrepancies
I realize some Phenom temperature sensors are reading near ambient values on air, looking around and that makes them quite untrustable if anyone has such a chip (one of my 9600s was affected). What I'm at loss with is, why do they shut down at 74C when that is the chips actual shut down limit? Also why does it not make it unstable at 60C, if actual temps were plus >10C? 70C real will make Phenom totally unstable in operation and damage it. Furthermore, why does the stock HSF able to just dissipate 95W not keep it cool and keep it quite warm, at 50C load if we know that can't be 60C actual?
The only way we can check is by crosschecking with the chips physical limits. 70-75C will assert PROCHOT and shutdown Phenom instant as its beyond tolerance. Then we can work from there onwards to finding the actual temps (approx) by using TDP/cooling/ambient/load/HSF thermal resistance values.
If you've got a flash drive you can try MSI's tool here too. I used it to update mine and it was completely painless.Quote:
Originally Posted by jesteronyer6
http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?topic=113295.0
You'll need to create an account there to get to the tool, if you don't already have one.
BTW I thought setting the light in the upper right hand corner of AoD to red/orange defeated the TLB patch. Is that wrong?
In theory, it was supposed to be correct, but in practice, performance is still a margin of the actual patchless. Decompression/compression/ encryption/decryption/ encoding/decoding/ calculations seems to be affected the most severely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklash
Synthetic tests may still run giving normal performance output but real workloads won't. Super Pi is usually 2-3 seconds slower with the method you mentioned over a non-patched BIOS.
Looking at the BIOS state, it seems AMD might have (most likely actually) pushed MSI to implement the patch at any cost. It is AMD who decides most of their platform decisions in case you didn't know.
I think you're right. 3mark06 CPU test is down with the latest official BIOS even if I toggle the TLB fix off with AoD. It's only on the order of 40pnts and I still hate this big brother crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
well 2.6 is stable
11.5x227 is about the same as 9.5x272
230 was ok about the same as 274 was
maybe I'm maxed and need to drop to 2.58ish and be settled until b3 :D
Just tested 1.212VID CPU 1.2V idle/1.192V load 2.3G - 1.3VID NB 2.4G = easily passed. ;)
I'll go lower next-> 1.2VID 1.192V idle/1.184V load CPU 2.3G
That'll need many testing hours.
Guys with Phenom: can you help out Felix here to test his new Memset builds please: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=114754&page=2
Feedback is very welcome (in his thread). Try and make it precise and test it properly to find any bugs so that we can work to fix them. One of the best apps around and he puts a lot of hard work into it for nothing back when he deserves much more back :)
Specifically, change the CPU multi from stock and see if the values are picked up correctly in it (BIOS change is always best, but try AOD too).
This goes out to fellas using any Phenom on all boards.
Lol, that's what i did in my spare time the last week. The odd thing is sometimes you can use a much lower nb voltage if you increase cpuv a little.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
With cpuv 1,2V I can go down to 1,025V on the nb here. Looking for the min nb with 1,185V for the cpu atm. I want to annotate that I use relaxed memory settings 800-5-5-5-15. Can be that a higher nb voltage is required for opzimized settings.
EDIT: You might also try 1,185V/1,075V for CPU/NB at stock, lowest possible on the M3A with a 9500.
Got one question here, hope the pros can help me ans it! Really appreciate it guys! Thanks!
Im now running the 5000X2 on my K9A2 plat while waiting for my 9500 to come.
I change the multi to 15x, stock voltage, ram is 1:2, DDR2 800.
Its running at 3Ghz, but my ram is running at 375 instead of 400. Why is it this way?
Is it due to the 15X multi?
NB voltage? We can't see NB volts, we can only see the VID value. Though I know NB volts rise and fall with VID selection, but they don't rise and fall much by just VID changing unless you push to extremes. I actually want lowest CPU voltage first because it's the biggest temp/power hog, NB voltage can be taken near 1.2VID at least (1.192V) at stock stable, which is OK for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
Right now, I've just gamed 30 minutes and then primed stable >5.5 hours (still going) at:
202 x 12 = 2423MHz CPU @ 1.225VID 1.216V idle/1.208V load
202 x 10 = 2020MHz NB @ 1.275VID
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6...tablbt8.th.png
Consider, stock was 200 x 11.5 = 2.3G @ 1.25VID 1.240V
That was just to test headroom at those volts. An easy and quicker way to tell if any lower VID/V is unstable.
1.2VID gives me 1.192V idle/1.184V load but 1.075VID will probably give near 1.0V for the IMC. That might b a little too unstable I'll try it though. :)Quote:
EDIT: You might also try 1,185V/1,075V for CPU/NB at stock, lowest possible on the M3A with a 9500.
Read up on some guides for X2 oc'ing and you'll do much better overall (google). ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarok95
With X2: (HTT speed) x (CPU multiplier) / (memory divisor) = RAM clock
200 x 15 (2000) / 8 = DDR2-750
Use this tool for oc and it'll give you the different frequencies at different settings: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=120432
Although you don't need it if you understand it. :)
I have two settings in my bios prozessor and northbridge voltage. VCore (AOD,CPU-Z) seems to be prozessor voltage and same as CPU VID here (AOD), NB voltage is NB VID(AMD PM).Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Was the system unstable at 202x10 with a higher VID/Vcore?Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
With 1,2125V Vcore I can reach 204x11 max here. With 1,225V it's 208 (or 206)x11.
I use a 9500 so you might try it with an 11x multi. For 2310Mhz I need 1,25V/1,05V (prime95 stable for 17 minutes). Can be that my low nb requirement has todo with the relaxed memory timings.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Yeah how VIDs work is like so:
HEX = VID -> Voltage set Idle/Load
28 = 1.2 -> 1.192V/1.184V
27 = 1.212 -> 1.20V/1.192V
26 = 1.225 -> 1.216V/1.208V
...
That voltage is default for those VIDs unless you manually change the voltage.
I've passed 1.2VID 1.192V Idle/1.184V Load for 2.4GHz CPU (200x12) and 1.1VID 1.8GHz NB
I've just finished benchmarking and now started priming 1.050VID NB 1.8GHz at the above CPU settings (20mins).
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8...minsbb1.th.png
Unganged is much harder on the IMC than Ganged, so you need higher volts/higher RAM timings for a setting at Unganged than in Ganged DCT mode. Usually CR, tRFC, tRC and MaxAsyncLat is what suffers in Unganged mode compared to Ganged.
However, I cannot get CnQ to work or kick in at all even at stock. :confused:
For the NB you mean? Yep, even with 1.275VID 2.5GHz runs fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
This chip is doing much less. See what I'm priming now... although I've learnt many lessons for Phenom and it's even more paramount now, that prime is not the all end for stability. I will have to power cycle, cold/warm boot, idle, overload by opening many applications at once, trying to open many tabs in Firefox at once, 2k6 looping, load different parts of the core (FPU/caches/IMC), Systools 32M, wPrime 1024M, and then do some gaming. ATM, I'm running my stock fan at its lowest speed just to have highest temps and see if its unstable. I haven't tried dropping CPU VID/V more than 1.2VID/1.192V at 2.4G yet.Quote:
With 1,2125V Vcore I can reach 204x11 max here. With 1,225V it's 208 (or 206)x11.
I use a 9500 so you might try it with an 11x multi. For 2310Mhz I need 1,25V/1,05V (prime95 stable for 17 minutes). Can be that my low nb requirement has todo with the relaxed memory timings.
CPU - 2300MHz (200x11.5) 1.175VID 1.160V Idle/1.152V Load
IMC - 1800MHz 1.050VID (near 1.0V)
Idle - 98W AC
Load - 165W AC ;)
28min gaming+power cycling+app. over-loading+2k6+2k3+website surfing+30min idling+Memtest+wPrime1024M+Systools 32M+>4hrs P95, still going strong.
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/736...0180au2.th.png
That's the IMC limit before it starts failing. 1.0VID failed after 40 minutes P95 on one core.
I'm going to undervolt the CPU more yet and then see what I reach. Let's try 1.0V ;)
Thanks KTE!
Yep, does not help that much in idle but under load it can save ~10W.:yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Wish I could do more testing but i'm looking for rought numbers at ref HT's in 2MHz steps so it whould take forever. So my current criteria is 20 minutes prime95, then i run cinebench10 and note the power consumption during rendering and the time the benchmark tool and the temps during the benchmark and in idle. That way I can calculate the "render enegry" required at given ref HT's. I will be finsihed in a few days.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
That's the IMC limit before it starts failing. 1.0VID failed after 40 minutes P95 on one core.
He He, I found if you put a little more vid on the cpu you can go lower with the nb.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Assuming the cpu can handle 100A and the nb 20A the average voltage needed can be calculated like this:
u = u1*4/5+u2*1/5
This average is very close for two different cpu vid/nb vid settings at the same ref HT, the diference is ~0,005V.
KTE
What ram are you using in your system?
I placed the ram in the two differnt slots 1 and 3. Both stick are now seen as Single Channel. 2GBs. System posted with no memory timings tweaks
Using POH bios with TLB fix disabled. Seems like the best bios with my ram.
Still cant get it dual channel.
Going to run that winrar test on this bios, On the Phenom.
I ran some tests on my BE 5000x2 with the k9A2 2gigs I get 970kbs
also on my 939 system 3800x2 2gigs RAID 0 I get 690kbs
A phenom gettting in the 700s sucks.
What is the Xpress option in this bios???
Right next to TLB fix.
in order to run ram in dual channel it has to be different color slots. it may still show that it's in single channel when you post (bug).
1+2 or 3+4
Yes but if you paid attention to my whining :)... I cant get a post with my Cosair Dominator 8500 with either in 1+2 or 3+4Quote:
in order to run ram in dual channel it has to be different color slots. it may still show that it's in single channel when you post (bug).
1+2 or 3+4
I have to take the second stick out everytime. I have a resetup my bios because if gives a bad checksum. Then I play the with more timing voltage NB volt. Divider. Nothing.
So I want to get the exact sticks that you or Kte has so I can have some more fun
thats cause ddr2 1066 has issues...
I think the 1.33 betas may help you out alittle.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=859
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarok95
how high can you go on those platinum and BE proc?
Max 100% stable found at stock MHz was my last post. ;)
VID (Idle Volts/Load Volts)
CPU - 2300MHz (200x11.5) 1.175VID 1.160V Idle/1.152V Load
NB - 1800MHz 1.050VID (near 1.0V)
Idle - 98W AC
Load - 165W AC
NB VID 1.000 booted, never froze, surfed web easy, but failed Prime95 inside 10 minutes.
CPU VID 1.138 (1.120V) and 1.162 (1.152V/1.144V) booted and idled perfectly running Thunderbird, WinRAR, SuperPi 1M and Firefox. Ran Prime95; the first failed inside 2 minutes and the second setting core3 failed after 40mins. The rest ran fine till the 3hr mark (never tested beyond).
BIOS/CPU Problems:
-Cannot boot below NB 9x multi on Phenom 9600 BE (both of my last ones - can do with Phenom 9500 and 9600 though)
-Cannot boot plus HT 10x multi.
-AOD is extremely buggy if HT is moved above 9x through BIOS (it'll freeze/reboot).
Max HT POST: 268MHz
Max HT full bootup: 265MHz (got excited before capturing, moved it up and system froze - not worked since then)
*Max HT Validated: 248MHz (stable easy - there's a black hole after this 1MHz)
Max CPU POST: 3240MHz
Max CPU full bootup: 3040MHz (froze on capturing screenshot, damn PNG compression -volts makes no difference, never happened since)
**Max CPU validated: 2812MHz (locks up idling)
Max CPU benchable: ~2760MHz
Max CPU stable: 2756MHz (with sub 1.4V, not 1MHz more stable is possible)
Max NB stable: 2500MHz
Max HT stable: 2480MHz
*: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=304234
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/3783/cpumaxvt2.jpg
**: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=304222
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/2219/maxhtnbrq0.jpg
I will later post the BIOS AM2+ P-State mappings and what volts they give you to the limit of my testing so far. I am too short of time to test yet though and haven't even tried plus 1.4V oc limit yet. OC stability has gradually started decreasing. What I required 1.32V to do before (2.726G) now requires 1.368V minimum or else it'll lock up idling. I'm going to just Prime95 cycle it days on end to see if there is degradation, which I expect as seen with my last Phenoms. What happens is, they start requiring more volts, usually +0.1V more for 100MHz less after 3 weeks at a particular MHz/V than when first stability tested. So say I have 2.7G stable at 1.328V... it becomes 2.58-2.6G at 1.4V. :(
Are you sure about this Achim? Currents are separately regulated and limited. I'm not sure how NB VIDs/Volts affect CPU VIDs/Volts you know, they are totally separate and independent of each other, because the IMC has it's own separate voltage from the cores, decided initially by the NB VID; on the 5 phase MSI RD790, CPU gets 4 phase PWM regulation with a maximum of 110A, so 27.5A in each phase and the IMC gets 1 separate phase for 20A maximum. Both have separate VRMs controlling their supply voltages, and both attain independent voltages. This is why that fella burnt up his K9A2 CF PWM area, it can't handle 110A+20A through the VRMs.Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
So, if I test 2.3G CPU/1.8G IMC at 1.2V/1.1VID and it fails, moving it to 1.4V/1.1VID or 1.4V/1.05VID doesn't get me any more stability at all, it still fails. ;)
2x 1GB Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500 (D9GMH) 5-5-5-15-30 2T 2.2V.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brains1
That's single channel but did you change it to unganged mode?Quote:
I placed the ram in the two differnt slots 1 and 3. Both stick are now seen as Single Channel. 2GBs. System posted with no memory timings tweaks
IDK which settings you had on the 5000+BE, but 2.64G/1.2G HT/880MHz 4-4-4-4 1T RAM gets 1332KB/s with 5000+ BE. Want to see what Phenom gets on a rough run with CPU 35MHz lower and high RAM timings?Quote:
Using POH bios with TLB fix disabled. Seems like the best bios with my ram.
Still cant get it dual channel.
Going to run that winrar test on this bios, On the Phenom.
I ran some tests on my BE 5000x2 with the k9A2 2gigs I get 970kbs
also on my 939 system 3800x2 2gigs RAID 0 I get 690kbs
A phenom gettting in the 700s sucks.
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/7572/winraree4.jpg
That's ~150KB/s lower than a 3.6G Q6600 running 1200 5-5-5-15 RAM.
AutoXpress? I didn't try the new BIOSes properly apart from just RAM/TLB patch because that's all that I needed more and they had next to no BIOS OC options I wanted. I always left that option disabled, sorry.Quote:
What is the Xpress option in this bios???
Right next to TLB fix.
Have you changed DRAM timings and RAM volts to what it's rated for with just one stick in and then reboot>add 2nd stick>boot?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brains1
Yep, the new P0G/P0H and 133 BETA can run RAM at all dividers perfectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
Looks like my testing with Phenom is now about to end. ;)
Only some benchmarks left now.
Max CPU stability, NB stability, HT ref. stability and HT link stability has been reached.
Max HT and NB combined, stable: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=304383
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/7573/25922os3.png
When 1GHz HT was out, people said that's it! More HT makes no difference, and some assume this to be reflected over on Phenom too, when that 'aint so. As I have shown earlier, GFX perf. increases with higher HT clocks from 1GHz to 2GHz. However, I thought there may not be much more to gain with high HT clocks after 1.9GHz.
I've tested 2.043GHz and 2.497GHz HT in AquaMark 3 at the same settings, stock GPU, but changing the HT link speed. See the in-detail results below:
1. http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/51/2043um7.png
2. http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/2316/2500zw4.png
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8889/altogetherkp7.png
Just FYI, AM3 shows higher GFX score with more CPU MHz, always. As a comparison, 2.268GHz CPU/2.592GHz HT/NB get 16347 GFX score with Sapphire HD 2600 XT at stock.
In the tests, scaling is hardly there but still, look at the AV.triangles/second. ;) You'll see the GFX perf. drops overall but at the same time the CPU perf. jumps a little and enough to warrant a slightly higher end score.
Thus, there isn't much to gain from 2GHz to 2.6GHz HT (I did bench 2.592GHz HT with a lower CPU too) but there is a slightly increased overall graphics performance. :)
Another Bust for Phenom Tye?
Bust? I think mines doing quite well actually. ;)
However, there comes a time when you have to move on... => :p:
Hey, you have done a great service for everybody and you should be commended for such a fine job Tye:clap: :clap: :clap: :up:
I will stick with my original statement and say that Phenom Currently is not suited for Overclock as I watch this data being posted regularly and that what I see from a collective view point of whats been posted from start to current.
It can only get better and I am looking forward to one myself maybe 4GB of 1066 SPD Ram if JDEC gets the Hooks out of their Ass:D that and Windows XP64 should prove interesting:yepp:
Yep i'm sure but that formular is only valid for the next lower cpu vid if you found one you can run stable with a really low nb vid. Can be a temperature issue. The power consumptions is the same with my power meter between those two alternatives.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Formular should be u=u1*11/13+u2*2/13, had 100A in mind.
Does your mobo also use the L6740L chip?