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found one here tooQuote:
Originally Posted by eleeter
It looks like Nvidia is shaving it pretty close, as far as GTX280 GPU is binning is concerned. I say this because my GTX280 just died! - after less than an hour of 3DMark06 looped testing. And this was on my open test jig, with max air cooling (fan duty cycle was set to 70%).
sry, post links if your going on accusation or else you need to stop posting fud.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
are you hired by Nvidia?
I spend time reading a few forums, I see some people selling their 280gtx to go crossfire with better framerates, smoother experience playing their favorite games.
same price, better performance.
oh, its just one guy as far, that have done that but I guess that beacuse not that many cards are out for sale from Nvidia and not that many buy them.
:rolleyes:
Please post linsk to those forums with major issues of 4870's dying. I've seen on on [H] by GT but he had a BIOS flash. I see no threads on AT, Guru3D, Techpowerup right now on it. Strangely enough, I see GTX280 overheating issues on those forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
So we have on thread here, after people were talking about BIOS flashses and people were experimenting, and suddenly ATI has a major issue while Nvidia doesn't at all? :rofl:
As others have already shown, the problem is affecting Nvidia as well and the lieklihood is both sides are pushing their cores very hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
and that just sucks, they allways save on the cooling solution, thought ati more then NV.
Just look at the HD4800 seriers, stock cooler = useless, i bet even on a 4870 a HR03 would shave at last 30°C under load (without ocing) and maybe is even more silent then the stock cooler...
Also seems that the cooler of the 280gtx has some issues, to bad those people with overheating problems dont look under the cooler...
I'm pretty sure NV's heatsinks are cheaper than ATI's. Lots of Alu there. ATI almost always uses copper (I've never seen an ATI Alu heatsink, but I give the benefit of the doubt). But in the end both are useless due to BIOS profiles with slow fan speeds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
Hey ceevee, regards to your boss, Mr. Jen-Hsun Huang. :clap::rofl::ROTF:
On hearing the news that AMD is gobbling up ATI, NVIDIA's CEO said that it's great news for his own company. "I thought it was just impossible to get a gift like this," said Jen-Hsun Huang. "ATI is basically throwing in the towel, leaving us as the only stand-alone (graphics chip) company in the world."(Ars technica, July 26, 2006)
maybe, but copper isnt allways the best, especial for the fins. But coolers depend on far more then what material was used ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
Go back to the previous page of this thread and you can see I have already posted 5 links that have a total of 9 dead cards just on this forum, and there are more here I didn't link. It is not my job to link every single instance on the internet for you. The same problem is being reported on other forums too.Quote:
Originally Posted by flopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
From what i see the real issue is improper mounting + fan stuck @ low speeds.
Several users reported stellar temp improvement after re-mounting.
Yeah and you forget mentioning all those cards died cos of hacked bios flash. :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
Ur pathetic.
So there are both dead ATI cards and dead Nvidia cards in this new generation. Looks like there are going to be some growing pains for everyone. What's your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
The HR03-GT was tested on the 4870 I believe by Hardware Canucks and it definitely drops temperatures by a ton.
Sorry but IT IS your responsibility if you are going to make claims that you saw them. Otherwise you are down right trolling if you cannot provide us a link to another forum after you claimed that there were these messages. Or, is it because you have none of those links?Quote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
Just plain pathetic if you are here to troll and spread FUD :down: but seeing your recent post history, I'm not expecting anything else.
This is getting really trite.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
You can kill any nVidia or ATi card that way.
Not that when the 4870X2 comes you're gonna find another lame excuse to down ATi as usual... hillariously lame.
Of course, but for example the original 8800GTX/GTS cooler was one of the crappiest of all history. Speaking about money, Alu is cheaper, so we can conclude NV's heatsinks are cheaper and this was the point ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
All I know about copper and aluminum is.. don't mix! ;)
Combining them into one cooler design is not bad though, but I guess we are getting off-topic. Can we get this thread back on track again, all this trolling is just getting out of proportions.Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
Actually the R680 had one of the cores on ALU IIRC so it was a mixed design for that heatsink..
Hi ceevee, you spent that $650 in the wrong place. We are sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
Thanks.
More like $1300.
On air there is no problem with mixing them, problem comes with water :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
Ok look at this. I'm not a fanbooy for either camp, but i've got a 4870 on pre-order. We are losing cards with flashed bios, software OC and at stock. This thread contains most of the cases:Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=192759
And here are two posts of ppl who had a card die on them before even overclocking:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...7&postcount=17
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=3956
There's obviously something going on, so lets not stick our heads in the sand.;)
hey guys,
just got my HD4850 a few days ago. still doing some tests but i seriously cannot believe how sucky that cooler is. not only does it cool bad in idle, it doesnt even seem to spin up in 3D mark or anything wich is causing hangs. cant even oc it to 1000MHz memory without having crashes in 3Dmark06.
i am running an E8200 @ 4GHz and i get scores like 12500-ish witch seems way too low.
geuss i have to get another heatsink...another 25€ down the drain.:rolleyes:
It isn't sticking your head in the sand. I'm telling him that if you're going to make a claim that other forums have these same issues, when the only thread you can find is here, then you better have some backup to your claims or you're just plain trolling and instigating.Quote:
Originally Posted by twwen2
There's obviously something wrong with cards biting the dust if they were left untouched but I also think there's a lot of people modding that might have caused it. Even changing the fan speed via BIOS can cause problems if the uploaded new BIOS was reading the 4800 incorrectly from the get go and causing errors down the line. A lot of reasons can be there. Considering the person who wrote RBE doesn't have an actual 4800 sample and is going off what other people are giving him, there's bound to be errors that can occur.
Problem might lie in GDDR5 aswell. Overclocking kills them, slowly. ...i guess.
Ok fair enough.
I'm seriously considering delaying my purchase until these issues are sorted out, and the root cause of the problem found.
The people that have problems with these cards should check if the metallic 'backplate' isn't shorting components on the back of the PCB. In my opinion this piece has always been a weak spot in the construction of ATI branded cards. The chance that this piece is actually causing these problems is small but it's worth it to check it.
both mine have plastic spacers between the metal and pcb and all of these spacers rest on blank pcb and don't touch any contacts
20 bucks on it being the Quimonda ram, same as 8800gt :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by twwen2
I'm happy to report that in my local IT forum in which i'm one of the mod there (forum.chip.co.id), HD 48xx series have swept in and captured many gamers attention & interest in having them. To help the matter, HD 4850 (220 US$) & 4870 (325 US$) are reasonably priced here, compared to ATi historical pricing policy, while 9800 GTX is still priced to the sky, mostly in the 320+ US$ range, and the retailers here don't expect the price to go down, atleast until the old stocks are gone and the new stocks of 9800 GTX+ arrive.
Not before long, i expect ATi to capture back & dominate the upper mainstream & performance segment here in Indonesia -too bad, the mainstream & low end segments are still held quite solidly by nVidia, courtesy of their successful 9600 GT and 8600 GT series, which are priced nicely compared to ATi competing products in my country.
nothing wrong with the quimonda ram on my 4850 so far. over a week with lots of stressQuote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
I think the main reason for posts about problems with ATI cards is that they sell like never before:
The Top 10 of the biggest german price search engine:
1. Sapphire Radeon HD 4870, 512MB GDDR5, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0, bulk/lite retail (21133-00-10/20R)
2. Sapphire Radeon HD 4850, 512MB GDDR3, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0, bulk/lite retail (21132-00-10/20R)
3. PowerColor Radeon HD 4870, 512MB GDDR5, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (A77F-TE3)
4. PowerColor Radeon HD 4850, 512MB GDDR3, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (A77C-PE3)
5. Sapphire Radeon HD 4870, 512MB GDDR5, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0, full retail (21133-00-40R)
6. ASUS ENGTX280/HTDP, GeForce GTX 280, 1024MB GDDR3, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (90-C3CGE0-L0UAY00T)
7. ASUS EAH4870/HTDI, Radeon HD 4870, 512MB GDDR5, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (90-C3CGH0-J0UAY00T)
8. ASUS EAH4850/HTDI, Radeon HD 4850, 512MB GDDR3, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (90-C3CGG0-J0UAY00T)
9. Club 3D Radeon HD 4850, 512MB GDDR3, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (CGAX-4852DD)
10. MSI R4870-T2D512, Radeon HD 4870, 512MB GDDR5, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (V803-279R)
and by the way, my 8800GTX died 2 month ago, always on stock speed, and because MSI refuses to repair the card because of a missing sticker, my next will probably be a ATI 4870x2.
There is a psychological explanation, it happens at all sorts of levels. It is also the reason that the planet will not unite until we get invaded by aliens. We retroactively justify the choices we make and is similar to both snobbery and inverted snobbery. Basically if you buy an nVidia card then you become a member of the nVidia 'in group', it happened to me with my G92 GTS. Basically, you boost your ego and justify your decision by deriding those who disagree especially if they belong to a rival 'in-group', in this case ATi fanboys. Though I expect that Intel will be bashed by both nVidia and ATi fanboys.Quote:
Originally Posted by AbelJemka
that list is useless, it only shows what has the most views on certain day, not sales. :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakti
We got a similar score with a single 4850 and an E8400 @ 4GHz so it is spot on. As far as I can tell the cooler is tuned for quiet operation. The fan on my second 4850 is not spinning at all when the card is not in use but still manages to idle at 61C. What we need is for ATi tool and ATi Tray Tools to be updated for these cards and to work under Vista64.Quote:
Originally Posted by vinteg
I don't do that. Making sure that my judgements are not based on emotion is very important to me. In fact I am generally more interested in proving myself wrong than proving myself right. Also I have noticed other people here who don't seem to care what the writing on some circuit board that sits in a closed computer case happens to be. I was just thinking about a name for those of us who just don't care. Maybe something like "tech whores". I have NO loyalty whatsoever to any of these tech companies. In any competitive industry, usually one company will have the edge for a while, and then it will be the opposite for a while and so forth. But the bottom line is I would jump ship to either company for a 5fps advantage in benchmarks. Sorry, but I just don't understand the kind of loyalty you are talking about. Why is "feeling good" more important than the truth?Quote:
Originally Posted by initialised
I have to say that in this context, I think that AMD is in a much better position than NVidia. AMD/ATI is the underdog that really seems to make fanboys drool. I have never seen such devotion. AMD right or wrong. They would never buy either Intel or Nvidia. Ever. It would be like cheating on their wife. AMD is very lucky to have those loyal customers: the guys who are running Phenoms and a AMD chipsets and HD3870s. For whatever reason Nvidia seems harder to love. They don't seem to inspire devotion in the same way. Maybe it's like the Mac vs. PC thing. PC users just don't "love" their computers in the same way that Mac users do.
In a lot of ways it is understandable. Nvidia has been behaving like a bunch of jackasses lately. Only enabling SLI on their own motherboards, bickering with Intel, the 9800GTX naming fiasco, releasing utterly unreliable and slow chipsets and charging insanely high prices for them.
not sure that will bring anything to this thread, anyway: I started to develop bad feelings against NVidia when they acquired 3DFX, which resulted in 3DFX disappearing from the market. My first PC, back in 1998, had a Voodoo (1), together with an ATI (2D) and that was fantastic at the time. 3DFX invented SLI...what NVidia has done with it... well you all know what I'm talking about :mad: forcing people to buy their bloody motherboard chipset to run their graphic cards in SLI :mad: again (ending with Nehalem hopefully :D)
I was actually glad when ATI took over the market of high-end graphic cards back in 2002 with the 9700, and then with the X800 and the X1900 series. No need to add how satisfied I am to see them back on track now with the 4000 series ;) I actually held AMD responsible for the ATI disaster during the last two years...changing my mind now, but will still stick to Intel :D
Thanks for also posting the truth. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by twwen2
Some of these people must have shrines to AMD they worship in their homes lol. If you mention anything that says AMD is not perfect and the best thing ever they will attack you personally like little 5 year old kids.
Major problem is at least 10% of cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
With the volume of cards shipped by ATI/Nvidia in their launch weeks alone, the number of dead cards have yet to surpass the number of Gigabyte motherboards that have to be RMAd at launch :p:
Seriously, we're talking about less than 1% of 1% that flash the bios that have their cards die. Out of that, even a smaller percentage are reporting non-bios related deaths.
Some have three 4870s working in crossfire with overclocks just fine.
Perkam
Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
:rofl::ROTF::clap:
so very true.
Why not their PSU, motherboard? What do you know??? :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
@ Hornet331:
AMD expected to grab 40% discrete graphics card market share in 3Q08
http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20080627PD209.html
well, i wouldn't call it useless. even if it doesn't show the amount of cards bought, it still shows that there's a huge demand regarding ati's 4000 series.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
that's definately a good thing for amd/ati :)
i'm still thinking about picking up a 4850. but i dunno if my cpu would limit it too much - i just want higher fps in higher res, that's why i think it could work out :p: a new rig with cpu is planned for the end of 2008 ;)
i counter with that:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakti
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/d...ds_Makers.html
one quartar is a very small time frame. I dont expect that the 4800 series has a hughe impact on the 3Q, but im sure we see some changes in 2009.
Technically, NV won't have a direct competitor until Q4, so the estimate should round out to 40% by then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
The point here is that the interest in ATI's cards has peaked for the first time in a VERY long time (since 2003 in fact). With AIBs losing NV exclusivity and NV having trouble with product line balancing due to the need for a return on its D10U architecture, the market is evening up between the two competitors.
All ATI now has to do is supply the demand, which AMD has been known to falter on from time to time.
Perkam
Whatever there yield I hope they gain back strength because these cards show that they still got alot of fight in them and is bringing back real competition to the market.
Can't wait to see what 4850, 4870 and 4870X2 or R700 can do when they're able to be fully overclocked.
Sad to say I have been getting quite a few BSOD on 790i SLI today. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Part of me wants to put the Blackops back in and order a couple 4870 to try, but it seems both ATI and NV having some probs atm.
Yeps. Waiting to hear from AIBs on the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
Perkam
the act to go multigpu and get amd to aquire have done some good.:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
AMD didn't have much to with their decision though, might have some effect in the implementation but they would have done it even without AMD. Not to say that AMD has thus far only been a burden to ATI, which is what quite a couple of guys have been saying, AMD has done more good than wrong for ATI thus far.
I don't think it's major but there are some issues like the fan speed and CCC overdrive oc's limiting way to much.
But they'll be rectified soon enough specially if normal people are finding ways around them.
Quote:
Diamond Releases Radeon HD 4870 XOC Unlocked Black Edition
Diamond Multimedia (www.diamondmm.com), a leading manufacturer of PC graphics cards, sound cards and communications products, launched today along with boutique system builder Smoothcreations, and Water cooling mavens, Danger Den the ATI Radeon™ HD 4870 XOC Black Edition graphics card. This card offers exquisite gaming capabilities combined with state of the art efficiency.
The HD 4870 is a smoking gun dual slot card, PCIE 2.0, with 512MB of DDR5 memory and a clock speed of 800 MHz. The memory speed is 1100 MHz and is designed with 800 stream processors. The HD 4870 provides plug-and-play ATI CrossFireX™ upgradeability with up to quad-GPU support. Continuing with ATI’s Power Play and 55nm processing technology, this card is the fastest and efficient. “The Diamond Radeon HD 4870 XOC Black Edition was clocked to kick some ass”. We didn’t just want a fast card out in the market, we wanted the fastest card that could kick the living daylights and bust some performance records, say Mario Gastelum, Director of Product Development & Engineering. “we wanted a card that kicked the competitions teeth into the curb”, and that’s exactly what our engineers accomplished”. “The firmware was custom designed to enable end users to go beyond the normal over clocked speeds and allow them to push their cards for higher performance via the catalyst control center.” The GPU’s custom firmware has been unlocked to push cards to GPU settings of up to 950 MHz and Memory of up 1200 MHz.
Diamond Teamed up with Premier Boutique system builder, SmoothCreations, to offer these powerful graphics cards to Smoothcreations legendary beauty and performance pc system platforms. “We wanted to complement beauty, artisan craftsmanship, and performance power to a gaming system, and Diamond helped us accomplish that”, says Jim Saling, CEO of SmoothCreations. In collaboration with Danger Den, Smoothcreations will be offering a water cooled edition as well.
All Diamond video cards carry the Diamond guarantee of quality assurance. Unlike many cards that are simply first to market, Diamond carefully tests and retests every new model for its ratio of performance to reliability. Diamond is legendary in the PC video card business for its less than 1 percent return rate. Diamond cards use superior connectors, cables and components, as well as undergo more thorough testing for heat susceptibility and durability.
Availability
Diamond Multimedia’s ATI Radeon HD 4870 XOC Black Edition will be available for purchase starting July 01, 2008 and will be available Exclusively at Premier Boutique System Builder Smoothcreations.
http://www.techpowerup.com/64301/Dia...k_Edition.html
regards
OK now someone upload that BIOS to TPU :DQuote:
Originally Posted by mascaras
It just occurred to me that only now is AMD finally getting some return on their huge investment in ATI. A return that some of us doubted would ever arrive. It looks like maybe the acquisition may not have been so stupid after all. I think AMD is about to take back huge amounts of GPU market share. Hopefully this will mark the beginning of a recovery for AMD. It would be kind of funny if their GPUs pay for their CPU R&D costs until they have a chance to catch up to Intel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
gtx280 killer :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by mascaras
So far it looks like only the 4870 is having these problems, not the 4850.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
I am sure that to the people these problems happen to they feel plenty serious. But how can you come to the conclusion that it is a serious problem overall without knowing the failure RATE? We don't even know the sales volume of these new cards yet so I'm not sure there is enough information to draw such a conclusion.
Be patient, we still don't even know what the problem actually is. There is always some risk in being an early adopter, we should all know that. Just as it doesn't help to spread fud to hide or minimize the problem, it isn't productive to exaggerate the problem either.
solus corvus is entirely right.
I've been reading every page in these news threads for awhile now and I do believe alot of what Ceevee was doing was trolling coming in and talking up the gtx series and down the 4000 series. That was the problem not that he was pointing out that the 4000 series has some issues. They both do because there new products and that's the way it happens often.
It's kinda like your being a beta tester for the products in a way because products often get rushed out now to reach unrealistic deadlines.
To me it very much looks like the issues back in the 8800GT launch days.
People got the card, tried to overclock it, and killed the RAMs easily; as 8800GT's first batch had Qimonda on them also, I think.
BIOS flashing might kill the card, given that the ROM chips of those cards are different from the older ones. RAM overclocking too can. But I don't understand why some people who never OC'ed nor flashed the BIOS are reporting dead cards under CF.
because normal cards can die also
lol, what's so abnormal about these cards then? :p:.Quote:
Originally Posted by eric66
*just kidding*
Not a good idea actually.It seems the bios flashing tools have something to do with the 4870 failures after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
Yes well Wizzard isn't taking all the bioses down for nothing their all wrong size ( corrupted ).Quote:
Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR
I so hope people on xs didn't lie to secure an rma, that would reflect badly on all of us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logos4
:soap:
I don't think that is the point at all. He simply will not acknowledge the validity of what the majority are speaking/debating. That ATI's new products are indeed placed/priced in a superior demographic.
That is ^undeniable. Whats even more annoying is the sheer lengths he and others will go, not to acknowledge ATI's accomplishment. Sure they toss in a cursory compliment, but it's evident those aren't heartfelt.
The vast majority of people are simply excited knowing that ATI offers 2 products that are within everyones reach/budget. Yet, ATI's enthusiast versions really haven't been explored or announced. So, all-the-while-knowing Nvidia has shot it's load with the $650 GTX280...with no where to go! They are still thread-crapping.
So, yes.... we are laughing at people who choose camps then place blindfolds on. AMD is clearly the winner this time around. It's perfectly alright to debate/comment on the architecture and downfalls of each card/brand, but to blindly ignore whats before you eyes illustrates someones agenda/desire or competency/delusional fanboisim.... and/or just blatant troll'n.
The Nvidia GTX280 cost $649 bucks. Thats 110% more and only offers 18% more in performance...! *dee dee dee*
Thats all before we even mention the R700 (HD4870xdeuce). How can you not be excited for whats comming down the pipe from ATI and knowing it's still going to be a sub $600.
.
that's what I did, and if you still can't deal with it, there's something called the report button (the little red warning sign thingy for those who don't know). If enough people report him the mods simply will remove him from the thread, or possibly forum, its that simpleQuote:
Originally Posted by Papu
ati owns this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoulz
Nvidia will be playing catching up.
The 8800GT created a great buzz and was the card to get, now, ati have made an even better deal,
they got 3 cards that everyone wants to have.:yepp:
Seeing numbers as 900mhz+ core on 4850, darn that allows 280gtx numbers, for one card that is a low end one.
Waiting for the heroes to go out there and overclock and do the 4870 a overhaul to see how it matches up and might even surpass the 280gtx with an easy overclocking.:owned:
and he is a troll, a big green one ;)
yeah found the ignore button , its well hidden :DQuote:
Originally Posted by AliG
Looks like the there is a fix after all
source
Some people here are now :owned:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle
People who leid about how their card deid should get banned imo. Make all of XS look bad :mad::mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by AbelJemka
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin_The_Martian
Lied. Died.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin_The_Martian
;)
I disagree. Only themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin_The_Martian
Omg someone noticed a spelling error... I hope you got quick fingers if you want to correct every one I will make :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Unbornchild
Dyslexia, well fatigue causing that, let's keep it at that.
Edit:
You know what people's reaction was when I said xs users were reporting dead cards without anything to cause it... Disbelief, distrust, laughter even. So yes, it does make us ALL look bad.
Puts on Mod hat;
Three times today I've got reported posts on this thread.
Enough with the bashing.
yes, it does look like there is a problem with some of these cards so discuss it not stand and bash like kids in a schoolyard.
Also keep down the personal attacks please.
Thanks for reading/
I actually believed them, then i saw the posts talking about BIOS flashing :shakes: If you've got the cash to play with these toys at least admit when you F up. Anyway......anyone hear anything about dual-slot 4850s??? I just noticed that there are a bunch of 4850s with $20/25 MIRs at the egg :shocked:
That's a relief to me. I was worried about my 4870 that will arrive on tuesday.
Would be nice to see this happen. XS has degenerated into name calling and personal insults for anyone who dares to question the latest fad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
Continuing to allow people to personally insult others who merely express a different viewpoint on a piece of hardware is making all of XS look bad.
I spend alot of money ($10K+) each year on computer equipment and am starting to feel like going to other places to find my information due to the very hostile environment here.
If you post something like (and back it up with links):
5 people respond:Quote:
AMD 4800 series is having some serious failure issues
So sad that hardware cannot be debated here on many sections of the forum anymore, and unpopular ideas or unpopular facts are met with personal harrassment and venemous personal attacks. :down:Quote:
You're an idiot moron, you're a troll, nvidia sux, what a jerk, what a tool etc etc
You can have unpopular opinions, but if you go around seeking to cause trouble then people will be tired of it.
Either way though, w1z has the fix out for those who had improper BIOS flashes and we'll see how many 4870s are suddenly revived. No shame in that - even a simple fan change in RBE could've caused the bricking of the cards, even if you didn't think you modified the BIOS. Now that the correct BIOS's are loaded, we shouldn't have as many problems as before.
BTW that diamond card is ridiculous... 950Mhz core + 1200 mem would be quite nuts.
Well I don't want to be rude, but you can't really deny that you in the end turned out to be wrong. There are no serious issues.
Ok, so let's now all forget this little dispute has ever happened and talk about what R700 might bring.....
Seriously...all the doom and gloom I'm glad I bought an nvidia cards stuff is getting really old . For those that have " bad " cards post what you did to cause / rectify the problem or if it was simply bad from the manufacturer . For those of you with GTX280's...you should be doing the same thing as opposed to smack talking another product . I myself hold loyalty to NO brand , my only loyalty is to performance . The 4870X2 is shaping up to be one hell of a good card and at this time I am planning on buying a pair as well as card cover blocks for them .
You're not fooling anyone. You love to troll and knock AMD at every turn. You don't care about the facts, you just jump on the bandwagon and bad mouth as much as you can, all the while claiming you have "proof"Quote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
Guess what, you were WRONG, again. So stop trolling and being an asswipe.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=3982
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=3994
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...65#post3099665
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=4037
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...0&postcount=31
sorry if this have been asked before.But is a e8400 @ 4ghz a good match for a 4870x2? bottleneck wise?
Unless you game below 1680 x 1050, I doubt a 4870x2 will be bottlenecked by the CPU at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by disruptfam
Oops ceevee, looks like this wasn't a "major major problem"! People who thought their cards had died now got their cards back thanks to W1zzard's fix!
People getting their dead cards back on track is a happy thing. Except for you. You must be pretty sad the guys got their cards back. I don't think anyone could doubt that.
Happy gaming with your GTX 280 which gives something like 10 FPS more than 4870, if not beaten by it, for an additional fee of only $350! The way it's meant to be played, right?
Ouch! That's gotta hurt :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
I'm gonna ask everyone to cease and desist with the ceevee-bashing.
His comments can be NV-biased sometimes, but they are far from being worth derailing the whole thread. This is the precise reason that I had asked for this thread to be removed. The longer it goes, the less of a purpose it will have. Members wished for this thread to be kept on for R700 discussion and that is what this is for.
There is NO general ATi or Nvidia discussion areas for exactly this reason. Please discuss the HD 4870 issues in the Video Card section, HD 4870 performance in the HD 4870 Review thread and likewise for the 4850.
Perkam
With 3rd party cooling the 4850/4870 cards will be reaching amazing clocks very soon. 950mhz core is pretty insane...
in short, I cant wait to see whats in store for us within the next two months :shocked:
Okay, I discuss R700:
There are rumors it'll be %15 faster than a 4870 CF setup and I say that should be impossible with the downclock it will have.
If the rumors are true, though, and the card sells for $499, and has no microstutter related issues (I can live with some games not benefiting at all, there are only a little such games anyway; but microstuttering destroys the gains and is there for most of the games) I will only then buy it.
Microstutter can be overcome only by delaying the GPU for a small amount of time so that both GPUs don't render the frames in the same time. And this will drag FPS down somewhat. So with the reported %15 increase, it's impossible to achieve.
I don't think it'll be downclocked...remember the leaked x12000 vantage score.
That was with 2 and the screenshot showed 750 mhz core....so It would seem that it won't be downclocked really.
Then, a %5 increase in clocks resulting in a %15 increase in performance is definitely possible thanks to the GPUs being on a single card, but I still think solving the microstutter problem would mean a sizeable FPS loss.
And microstutter = no buy for me, after what I'm seeing in my 8800GT SLI rig.
When I was fiddling with the BIOS overclocking of my 4870, I had it at 870/4500 on stock cooling, 32ish % fan... it was getting very hot but running stable, I went to reflash to lower clocks to just game with but had a crash from heat after bootup at lower clocks, shut down and of course the rest is history... truncated BIOS = no bootup, until W1zzard came to the rescue :). I'm not going to try those clocks again until a software OC utility comes, but once it does I have a feeling 45-50% fan would keep it stable :eek: . I had run it for a good 15 minutes without game issues until it was getting so hot I got worried.Quote:
Originally Posted by Direwolf
Anyone have any estimates about the absolute max RV770XT chip can go? e.g. any possibility to reach 1GHz with DICE/LN2 + insane volts? What about air?
1ghz should be doable on water, provided cards can provide enough power. I tihnk the limit will not be the chips, but how much power they can have delivered.
Makes me wonder about boards with 4 slots PCI-E 2.0 8x, and 4x 4870's VS 2x "R700".
Yeah i'd be interested to know how it responds to voltage increases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calmatory
If the clocks are increased by 5%, there can't be more than 5% gain. No way of doing that. 5% is the theoretical maximum, and it can never be exceeded. It doesn't matter if there are one or two cores.Quote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
...unless CF somehow starts to work more efficiently at different clockspeeds, which is more than awkward. And 5% core, 10% shader and 15% mem increase can't increase the performance more than 15% at max, no 30% performance increases. :P
Depends on how the card is truly limted, actually. You assume that clockspeed is the inefficiency, not something else...
There's a lot more to how a card performs than just clock speed... once you factor in caches, pipeline efficiency, dispatch efficiency, etc. core clocks are just one part of the equation.
im still microstutterring-agnostic.
so one german site writes a page theory about a phenomenon with crossfire 3870's that cant be measured by any means and all of a sudden its a truth?
am i the only skeptic here? there are many explanations for stuttering that haven't been ruled out. (lack of bandwith on the pci express slots they used? lack of memory caused by using a 32bit os and adding another 512mb of video memory?)
the site says its caused by an inherent flaw in afr rendering, so the 4870x2 should have microstuttering unless they come up with a new system, which would be a little chaotic. then they would have to work on making games compatible for crossfire and simultaneously make those games compatible for the 4870x2 and other newer x2 cards.
Still it can't be possible to gain over 100% efficiency, unless the clockspeed somehow makes the chip more efficient as in cache/memory management etc. Thus it is impossible to get more than 100% increase in performance from 100% overclock etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
Still over 100% efficiency in gain is impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
Also another "funny" thing is that people now talk about GDDR5 overclocks. "If you OC from 900 to 1000, you don't overclock 100 MHz, but 400 MHz Instead! From 3600 MHz to 4000 MHz!", which is obviously false. Doesn't matter if you OC 4 MHz or 4 GHz, if the increase is only 4 %, besides the chips still run at 900/1000MHz, not 3600/4000. :shakes:
well, firstly, you should make some observations between clock speed and fps at different frequencies to see if you can assume percent change in clock speed equals percent change in performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calmatory
my guess is that it doesn't, i think it's a far more mysterious relationship.
Technically it is. Eric Demers posted thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Calmatory
So it sounds like cache can cause performance to scale greater than linearlyQuote:
As for super-linear performance, it's possible -- The actual amount of cache is increased as well as the number of functional units. That means that it's very possible for data to stay in cache longer in xfire, than in regular rendering on a single card. That will lead to performance higher than 2x.
On average, we are seeing scaling in the 1.75 ~ 1.85 range for xfire. Of course, this is at higher resolutions and/or higher settings.
R700 having a much better interconnect between GPU's than with 2 separate cards allready gives the R700 a performance advantage over Crossfired 4870's with matching clocks.....therfore annihilat0r is correct that with a 5% clock increase on R700 could very well have a 15% performance gain over 2 4870's in crossfire.
in theary thats: Sideport comunication=10% gain over xfire
5% higher clockspeed=5% gain
=15%