The bottom line. The profit margin on those 1K euro computers is larger than the razor-thin margins on the 500 euro ones. I do agree with you about costs though.Quote:
Originally Posted by wiak
Printable View
The bottom line. The profit margin on those 1K euro computers is larger than the razor-thin margins on the 500 euro ones. I do agree with you about costs though.Quote:
Originally Posted by wiak
*sigh*Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie27
You imply that I would care if AMD is faster or not;
Well, pretty much not since I owned only AMD while they actually were biting the dust. Yes, I'd love them being faster, but I do not care.
You imply that if AMD was the fastest I would use SuperPI or any other benchmark;
And how could that be? As said, look in my sig. If your argument was anything near reliable, I wouldnt have said that. But I did say I do not care about most benchmarks, especially not the ones where the results tell me nothing about my PC.
You imply that Im just ignoring benchmarks, or turning the actual value of it around etc, anything to deny the results;
Well, if that's your way to justify your argument, but seriously, no. Im seriously starting to wonder how long it takes before you come up with those conspiracy theory's cause... You make me go like:confused:
For the rest of your rant, since I see no single reason for you to be trashing over me like that, go somewhere else or come up with a valid argument. You can call my post BS, but you're the one here accusing me of things, once again, which are based on jack :banana::banana::banana::banana:, once again. Or to go short, my BS is a response to your BS, fight fire with fire.
Now back on topic please, I dont have a lot of patience anymore to throw mud around really.
Also, just a side note, if you were that close to the truth, that reliable etc, then how come you're about the only one trash'n around like that:confused:
Or yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie27
Oh... and welcome to the IGNORE LIST.
You're welcomed, oh, that's right, not reading it:rofl::ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by keithlm
My short post was a rant? :rofl::ROTF: You're still slinging mud so you must be doing it subconsciously:D I asked why do you act like you're AMD personally or like you own the computer company. I've given you links before and you seem to not remember them LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteiner
Guys PLEASE LAY OFF with the mudslinging, OK? It does NO GOOD, clutters threads, making any real information harder to find, and is WORTHLESS :mad:
Wait...Are you actually complaining about having to filter through BS is this post while your contribution to this thread on the last two pages consists of obvious trolling or name calling?Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie27
The irony...:shakes:
I'm sorry. I've been impressed with Phenom II. Most folks have been very positive about it. Even if it doesn't overclock like C2D so what, Nehalem doesn't either. Phenom II has improved and closed the GAP considerably. This old crap about certain folks flying off the deep end for the slightest perceived negative comment, needs to STOP! At least one guy in thread gets it. You can say 9 good things and 1 not good then still expect to get flamed for the one comment. That's too bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO
No, look at your post for irony, nice info added. Phenom II info leaks out, AMD hints at something. Look at the post where I said I believed AMD, others say they didn't. But you'd never know it from the reply I got!Quote:
Originally Posted by Insanity
Please go back to post #32 and start over?
So, I'm trolling for AMD?Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie27
Where did I say you were trolling AMD?Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie27
Either you are trolling for the sake of provoking an argument, or you just need to chill out and back up because you're accomplishing nothing except participating to the polution of this thread.
What I wanted to say, is that you should drop the flamewar now for the sake of this thread because we may still be able to save it with some healthy discussion (which has long since disapeared here).
I could care less about who or what you're supporting. You could be a Cyrix fanboy for all I care, my point is the same : you're not helping this thread, you're just pouring oil on the fire.
Go drink a beer or two and chill out, and let this thread return to peaceful and useful discussion please.
Sigh!Quote:
Originally Posted by Insanity
Show some respect guys. Donnie's been here longer and seen more than you can imagine.
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sly Fox
I've been arguing with Donnie27 couple times before but honestly you can't blame him and not Rammsteiner here unless you don't care for double standards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insanity
Don't get me wrong, they're both responsible here.Quote:
Originally Posted by LowRun
Was just trying to get one of the sides to drop this endless argument for the sake of the thread. And Donnie looked reasonable enough to listen.
[OT]
@ Sly Fox, To be honest, I dont care really. Respect has to be earned, not given.
@ LowRun, Double standards? Please dont feel misplaced to show what and where my double standards are? Thanks
[/OT]
Can anyone do some thinking about the change to high/k and metal gates? Been thinking about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzman
My question is, since AMD managed to improve their current production very well; can high/k and metal gates be applied into this without issues and a guaranteed improvement in both clocks and power consumption or did AMD basicly manage to improve their process so much that it's better, even only on certain area's, than high/k and metal gates? So that if they used high/k and metal gates that they actually lose on certain areas like power consumption, clocks or whatever? Or can high/k and metal gates be more seen as a 'turbo' and basicly improves with whatever process it's combined with?
Wasn't really directed at you, sorry for the confusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteiner
No problem with disagreements, I'd hate to go to an XS where it's off-limits to argue. Just saying, some people get a bit too disrespectful and I think it's inappropriate.
XS seems to lose a legendary user a day thanks to smart-talking children that signed up a few months ago at most. And I think it's sad, I don't know how many more great users plan to leave, but I hope none.
In any case, Phenom II, good stuff, good stuff. :D
My guess is, the latter option. Only problem is, I have not seen any new info on AMD's 45 nm. process node refresh for at least half a year. I'd say they are not going to do it on 45 nm. and just implement it on their future 32 nm. node.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteiner
Ah, that's clear then:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sly Fox
It's indeed a shame some very good members left or refuse to post in certain sections and so do I hope we wont have to lose a lot more of those people. KTE for example posted some very good stuff, but he left as well:(
Anyway, lets get back on-topic heh:p:
Not sure, there were some reports a later revision of Deneb will have high/k and metal gates. Now I dont know what sort of changes there has to be made to even use this, but I think it would be quite weird to say on such relative short terms to do it and then not to do it. I mean, it's not like a a CPU you are doubting about whether to buy or not to buy it today:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
I think that unless they somehow royally screw this up I'm about set on buying one come next year :D Thinking I may go with AM3, DDR3, and get the black edition AM3 chip (I hope there is one!)
lol So seniority automatically makes you respected?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sly Fox
...this is like pulling teeth. :brick:
wheres the info?
Well the mods sure doesn't seem to mind. I have no problems at all with much harder flame/troll rules. In fact i want it just to rid of the trash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sly Fox
You might think that some of my posts are not very constructive or on topic but i do it because its allowed.
Not necessarily, but I can say that having read posts from Donnie and other users I know they're well educated in the subject and respectful towards other members 99% of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omastar
Seniority shouldn't be some all encompassing "shield" against blame, but I think users who have somewhat "grown" XS from a relatively small niche forum into an increasingly relevant one deserve some credit.
All I'm saying is that people (myself included at times) need to tone down the rage a little bit. Bickering jokingly or whatnot can be fun, but when arguments carry on page after page and involve insults, the line may be crossed.
Yeah, although I wouldnt care about that too much though. With speeds like 3Ghz I think an unlocked multiplier isnt needed that much anymore. If it's there, cool, if it ain't then not.Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO
You'd only need a HTT of 267Mhz to reach 4Ghz:rolleyes: Only thing to worry about is the motherboard allows good use of 8x multipliers for NB/HT (my motherboard didnt:shocked:).
And still Im wondering what FX will be about:p:
Well when I tinkered with a 9600BE (not my first one since it was borked) I couldn't really get anywhere with the HTT, had to use multi to do anything. But then, that was on SB600 and B2 too, could be different now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteiner
Hmm, FX.... dual quad core CPUs overclocked to 4GHz... :slobber: I can dream right :D
The FX concept seems dead. And it still is for the 45nm. Hence the reason there is a BE.
The 940 BE is the top CPU in january. The 945 BE will follow later and be the top CPU until Q4 or longer.
How do you know 945 BE is going to be top until Q4? Did I miss a chart, I didn't see any BE for AM3 :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Me neither, could you please enlighten me Shintai?Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO
I sure hope they won't kill the BE concept, but they probably wont unless they have the better performing CPUs and I don't see that happening for quite a while.
http://publish.it168.com/2008/1114/images/1237345.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO
There. 945 on top until Q3 '09 at least.
Rest of those "leaked" slides are here:
Odd... no X2 3Q09? That doesn't seem to make sense.
http://publish.it168.com/2008/1114/images/1237347.jpg
That would be the slide with the proposed x2 chips for the next year.
btw, I just noticed, what's an athlon x2 5800 and 5400?
The athlon x2 brand is going to get sooo confusing.
5xxx/6xxx = A64
7xxx = Phenom
2xx = Phenom II
Ah ok. So, according to those, it looks like no Deneb/Propus based dual cores, and an ever-decreasing number of available K8 dual cores, all using DDR2? I thought it would make more sense to convert over to deneb/propus based dual cores and get everything on the same memory type and socket instead of being split between two types :shrug:
Things are going to get confusing... And what are they going to do with so many SKUs? Look at Q2. 28 SKUs? If the P2-940 is going to retail at around the $300 mark, that's a heck of a lot of cpus to put between $0 and $300, almost one for every 10$ :s
Thankfully at least there will be no AM3 boards until Q4 '08/H1 '09. I guess they will phase out good ol' K8 by then, so that there's no question of anyone trying to plug a K8 into an AM3 board.
edit : Actually it probably is $10/cpu, since I can't imagine a cpu selling for lower than 20-30$
Of course, maybe amd has an ace up it's sleeve and the performance of the P2-940 may propel it into higher territory.
Maybe if Deneb turns out to be great enough, we'll get motherboard makers paying more attention to the design of AM3 boards
I tend to believe that AMD cannot afford to sell a overpriced CPU in there current shape and by overpriced I mean the price tag's that FX flavors always had. If they were to use the FX branding on a less than $300 CPU it would damage the FX name for future implementations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteiner
just my guess :shrug:
Ha ha, I remember the good ol' days on XOC forums in 2003-2004, where Donnie and I would constantly flame each other and argue about ATI (me) vs NVIDIA (Donnie). Then we both ended up on XS. Watch out, Donnie is more experienced than you can imagine in this area :rofl:;):up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sly Fox
FX priced cheaply could make it more popular.Quote:
Originally Posted by G0ldBr1ck
i7 Priced more cheaply could make it more popular as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan
True, yes, but hasn't there always been a premium on the fastest?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Esau
If you think about it in the long run, there is room for a Deneb at 3,4 GHz out of the box. After that, there is no more names in the 9XX series.
P2 945 = 3GHz
P2 965 = 3,2GHz
P2 985 = 3,4GHz
May be everything else that is higher than 3,4 will be FX? That is if there will be anythig to come out clocked above 3,4.
well 995 could be 3.6 Ghz ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by prostoman
It seems that gap between 920 and 940 is 20, only because they need both room for AM2+ and AM3 versions and possibility to introduce 2.9Ghz model between them in future.Quote:
Originally Posted by prostoman
Actually they have 10 for 200MHz (look lower clocked models for example). So there is room for up to 3.9GHz (they skip 950 for 3.1 Ghz, after that 960 for 3.2 Ghz - 995 for 3.9 Ghz).
And if AMD will be able to push Phenom II to 4Ghz stock, that proc deserves FX name. :)
If the 45nm K10 can really hit 4ghz, a 995 @ 3.6ghz and then maybe an FX model at 3.8ghz would max it out. When 32nm comes they'll name it Phenom III. So it could work out.
lol at everyone dreaming about 3,6ghz stock for a quadcore. This never gona happen on 45nm, maybe on 32nm.
Even Intels highest bin on 45nm for a quad is 3,4ghz with 150W TDP on a HKMG 45nm process.
And thats a server processor... for consumers that binning would be north of 160W. :p:
Oh he is right ;) 3.6GHz stock for a quadcore is just a dream :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
I hope that new amd quadcores can at least, hit @ 4GHz, that would be a great start for AMD :)
And 999 can be 4,0GHz. Yep, that sounds good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedjo
:rolleyes: :ROTF:
Hey we can dream right? :p: People used to think 2GHz was a dream too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
And if I am remembering that article correctly, AMD's new 45nm SOI is pretty darn good, nearly as good as intel's HKMG 45nm process. Or maybe I'm not quite remembering the article right, but either way it is really good. And tbh, saying since intel's fastest is x chip at y speed doesn't neccessarily mean AMD's fastest couldn't be faster. Typically intel's CPUs have had higher clocks but that can always change. I'm not saying it will, just saying it is possible.
But its also 125W at 3Ghz and servers stopped at 2.7Ghz with 105W TDP or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO
I wouldnt expect high clocks as stock anyday soon. Not even with 32nm.
You mean the EEtimes article where it states that amds (ibms) 45nm has a 62% lower pmos driver current(660 vs 1070 µA/µm) then intels 45nm? (higher is better btw.) ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO
Amd/ibm has a long way to catch intel on transistor performance. But transistor performance alone means nothing when the design cant keep up.
I didn't say I'd expect it to happen, just said it is possible, however slight that possibility might be. The TDP may come down over time too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Sure it does. Usually later steppings improve and the TDP can be adjusted downward. That's the case for AMD and Intel. You can also add that Errata is fixed on those later steppings as well. Both AMD and Intel fixed bugs on Phenom and Penryn (E0 updates) respectively.Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO
I'm looking at Phenom II simply because I didn't like the Bugs in my E8400 as compared to the fixed ones. I had to Flash the BOIS to even try the *fixed stepping.:mad: I want to buy a Phenom II because I feel that was a :banana::banana::banana::banana:y move by Intel. It's the kind of stuff that will get worse if AMD falters. So yes I hope those Phenom II's are affordable, not as hot and can overclock much better than their counterparts. I don't need to reach 4GHz a stable reliable 3.4GHz would be geat IMHO!
i7 has 130W @ 3.2GHz. Whats your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
His point is that the moon is made out of cheese....Quote:
Originally Posted by Eson
The 2,8 GHz. is running at 95 W. and thus a 3,2 GHz. stock clocked part isn't that far out of reach.
And if you would tell me there would be a stock 3.6-4Ghz i7 I would laugh and call you an idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eson
However, it seems saying the same for a 3.6-4Ghz Phenom II is something you get lynched for.
If you want that speed at stock. Then play with netburst or maybe a dualcore.
Maybe 32nm with alot of luck can do it. But surely not 45nm.
Im quite surprised to see that slide of Athlon X2's just going on, I thought they quit it. But if an Athlon X2 based on Deneb with 6MB L3 cache hits the market, that thing is going to fly:shocked:
Saw some interesting thoughts about FX-line. I dont know whether AMD is in the position to release an expensive product or not. Keep in mind that not all FX/EE CPU owners are OC'ers, they see those CPU's as the best and want it. If AMD manages to release a FX CPU clocked at say 3.4~3.6Ghz for say ~750Euro with good performance Im sure people are going to buy it, although probably only non-OC'ers with too much money. However, as Ive said before, FX does have to come with something special or BE has to be quit.
Special THANKS to flippin waffles for this news SOURCE.
Quote:
AMD decided to postpone 45nm desktop chip (Deneb, e.g. Phenom II) for hard launch on January 8, 2009 - first day of CES 2009. This way, complete 45nm production in 2008 will be branded as Opterons and target higher ASPs.
But don’t think for a second that AMD decided to drop the towel on desktop market: Deneb and Deneb FX are turning to be something really special. Unlike current batch of 65nm processors, Phenom II will come to market with 50% overclocking headroom, if you obey the essential rules of overclocking. In fact, Phenom II will probably be the most overclockable processor AMD released to market in the past eight years.
Quote:
According to our sources, AMD worked with some selected enthusiasts to enable LN2 cooling as well and the CPUs should not suffer from “cold bug”. Does this means we’ll start seeing 5GHz+ clocks on AMD processors as well?
Quote:
For now, all that we can do is wait and see can AMD get back in the game or not. Judging by our sources, ATI guys are making great changes inside the company and changing the product line-up in ways that old AMD would never think of.
Who is lynching you for saying that 3.6-4GHz stock is laughable? If you are referring to me, I'm not. At this point it is. But all I am saying is it may be possible to have 3.4-3.6GHz stock, MAYBE, as in slight chance (cherry picked chips for the FX for example). Me saying that is in no way lynching you :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
'ATI guys are making great changes inside the company and changing the product line-up in ways that old AMD would never think of.' wonder what does that mean
I don't think we will be seeing any future processors above 3.4-3.6GHz stock because we hit the wall. And with more cores, higher clocks becomes less important.
You do know who Theo is?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzman
Here is a reminder....Quote:
Theo’s Bright Side Of IT
http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquir...30000-3dmark06
One thing is sure, he aint bright!
:rofl:
ack, i would like to see this by another source. :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
There's a lot of optimism in here, I like it. I'll love to see AMD make a strong move this holiday season. It could mean that I pick up a good deal on a new platform or a dirt cheap upgrade on core i7.
Imo Phenom II 940 will cost $400 at release as it's direct competitor is the non-XE 9650 and not i920. Intel in it's effort to not cannibalize 775 sales has done AMD a great favor here and priced the entire i7 platform in the extreme high-end category, and i fully expect AMD to take advantage of that. I also think that AMD will release at least a 3.4GHz cpu by the end of the year.
i guess you missed this partQuote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
source: eetimesQuote:
The transistor drive current for AMD's 45-nm devices is much lower than that of the Intel HKMG transistors. But power consumption is quickly becoming a high priority for server chips. AMD's transistors exhibit very low channel leakage. Our transistor benchmarks indicates that leakage current is less than one-third of the value measured on AMD's 65-nm process. It's also significantly lower than the Intel 45-nm HKMG process. In fact the Ion/Ioff ratio for AMD's PFET is nearly 10 times better than that for the Intel PFET.
Well i really don't think AMD would release slides mentioning overclocking unless they had something to show. In fact the early slides on ACC were quite accurate in what they promised which was 200mhz more on average.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
Slight correction there, although I think you meant to say that. IMHO, I think that would be feasible to do for AMD, it will probably be the limit of what their Phenom II is capable of.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR
I think Hornet is indirectly responding to Jazzman's post....Quote:
Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR
Whoa, awesome they actually worked on the coldbug:shocked: I mean, this isn't something for AMD, nor Intel btw, to fix. Good they do really care about the enthusiasts by doing this:up:
That's just Theo talking. I won't believe that until i see benchesQuote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteiner
x2Quote:
Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR
though part of me doesn't care about coldbug, I'm only on water.
Could you tell me how the current Angena's react under some LN2? This is what biohead said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteiner
Is there any more proof of this?Quote:
Originally Posted by biohead
they moved clock gen to south bridge on SB750. though I haven't seen any tests prooving this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
That's what I was told as well! I'd be surprised if it isn't true. Sometimes on die isn't always the best:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
just search the AMD section for people running their 9950 under cold. the ones that boot at 200 htt, will also boot at way higher htt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
and take the 525 HTT results from toppc for example. that isn't even phenom but still. usually such a high htt means you can use lots of cold. but toppc can't even post that 500+ htt chip below 0 degrees celcius.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
January 2006:
FX-60 2.6ghz 1.40vid 110watt
May 2006: AM2 launch.
FX-62: 2.8Ghz 1.40v VID 125w
Aug 2007
6000+ 3.0 Ghz 1.30-1.35vid 89watt
6400+ 3.2Ghz 1.40vid 125Watt
All 90nm
People said K8 would never make it past 3ghz, hell no one could even clock one past 3ghz reliably before late 2006 even with loads of voltage.
Don't get me wrong I think a 4ghz stock chip is DREAMLAND also, but don't discount the possiblity of 3.4 - 3.6ghz parts in a couple of steppings, on 45nm.
I've clocked endless AM2 K8s and the improvements over the last 2 yrs have been great, but there's a very obvious wall as far as the architecture goes, that in my opinion would stop them ever making it past 3.4 at a pinch, BUT K10 is not K8 and it's very obvious that K10 scales higher. Fact is even current Phenoms on problimatic 65nm scale better with voltage than these K8's
bottom line is, it's been shown before how quickly AMD can tweak their process when under pressure.. I don't think anyone would have predicted a 3.2ghz K8 X2 on 90nm back in 2005, that's netburst DC level clocks on an arch that's in complete contrast when it comes to reaching high freq.
We really don't know if 45nm will turn out to be as good as 90nm was, so lets all just wait and see
i wouldn't say that because my x2 4000 had a vid of 1.35 and did 3.245 GHz @ 1.46Quote:
Originally Posted by mAJORD
Yeah, we all know that enthusiasts are world class engineers :rofl:Quote:
According to our sources, AMD worked with some selected enthusiasts to enable LN2 cooling as well and the CPUs should not suffer from “cold bug”. Does this means we’ll start seeing 5GHz+ clocks on AMD processors as well?
Some of them are, that's why they end up getting jobs in IT corps, happened to few XS members so i don't know what's so funny about it :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Oj101
It's just the way it was worded made it sound like being an enthusiast made you an engineer :p:
Like AMD needs some random overclocker with LN2 to get their chips working with lower temperatures. :ROTF: Does the overclocker tell them how to fine tune their process and fix few glitches in the march? :rolleyes:
I imagine it's more like "What is it you like to see? What is your process for overclocking?" Be certain that the engineers designing these chips often aren't world-class overclockers. They're world-class CPU engineers, and there's a bit of a disconnect there. By getting input from real-world enthusiasts, they can do their engineering magic to accommodate certain chip behavior if they want to.
It doesn't sound far-fetched to me at all. We see it all the time with motherboard manufacturers hiring overclockers to do testing. Why would it be absurd in the realm of CPUs?
AMDs have had a nasty coldbug since the 90nm A64s, I'm SURE this isn't the frst AMD's heard of it and I'm sure they know it's an issue to enthusiasts. Why collaborate with enthusiasts for them (the enthusiasts) to tell them what has been common knowledge for all this time?
Let's be real, Oj101, it was probably a lot more involved than:
"Hello, AMD guys!"
"Nice to meet you!"
"Cold bug!"
"Oh, ok! We'll fix it!"
"Bye!"
"See you!"
:D
I'll counter you with a why not and my expanded scope/involvement. There's not really any compelling reason not to see what the WC OCers are doing in detail if they want to appeal to enthusiasts. Getting frequencies up is one thing. Getting a chip to respond favorably to the techniques in use is a bit of another.
Because being an engineer doesn't make you a world class subzero overclocker, and so collaborating with these enthusiasts allows you to test your new processor with this sort of cooling under real enthusiast conditions by providing them samples, and then reporting the results to the actual engineers maybe?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oj101
Or maybe they don't care about anyone using sub zero cooling. I certainly really wouldn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insanity
It does not really benefit them directly, but if they keep the enthusiasts happy then this will work in their favor. They probably won't set any performance records when the chip can be run at LN2 temps, but it still be attractive to many overclockers if they can use it under LN2, even if it is just for some fun. This will get AMD in a more positive light for those particular enthusiast and they will do the talking for AMD. A bit of a marketing strategy as enthusiasts are probably the most vocal group of customers and enthusiast have quite a bit of influence on the consumer market.Quote:
Originally Posted by LOE
AFAIK the cold bug was one of SOI side effects. I'd like AMD to come closer us though.
I doubt that, there is absolutely no info to support that claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calmatory
I have none either, but I recall reading something about it in some random AMD thread. Though, I agree that it could be very well possible that what I read was false and it could be possible that I don't recall it properly or I could've misunderstood the whole point or... :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
Edit: Did some googling and it turns out that SOI indeed has nothing to do with this.
I'm not even saying they are trying to fix something like a cold bug but when you have someone like Macci in the house, i just can't see what would be wrong about asking him to have some freezing sessions and report his findings, then in the design process they could be lucky and find a light modification that is not too costly and helps a lot with cold bug. Or maybe they just don't care :shrug:
Every CPU has a coldbug at some temperature, but for some it's at such a low temperature that you won't ever reach it with LN2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calmatory
It is possible to go subzero with the current Phenom chips like this one:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=206289
But it still has a cold bug somewhere, just not at the temperatures that he was reaching.
The same was for certain Penryn quad-cores at the start of this year, some would crash when used under LN2 and some were fine. It's just that Intel's 'coldbug temperature' has always been much lower than AMD's and that's why it's much more obvious on AMD chips.
Yes, indeed, But wasn't it K8 which brought severe coldbug for AMD? E.g. K7 was much more flexible under subzero cooling and could go far beyond where K8 got bugged.
nope i dont missed that.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR
Amd/ibm already had 7 times better channle leakage values on 65nm process then intel. :yepp:
Amd had the edege in channle leakage ever since they used SOI. ;)
Ah crap, why ruin my satisfaction. Completely forgot about the author:(Quote:
Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR
I dont know man, I dont use sub zero. Only things Ive heard off is that some AMD CPU's had to be in between 0 and 20C in order to get the best results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
http://www.pcper.com/comments.php?nid=6455
Quote:
Update: The Phenom II reached 6 GHz+ at 1.9v on liquid nitrogen (boiling point -321F/-196C at 1 atm). Testing looks to have been done on a Gigabyte 790GX motherboard that is currently available.
:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:Quote:
Update: The Phenom II reached 6 GHz+ at 1.9v on liquid nitrogen (boiling point -321F/-196C at 1 atm). Testing looks to have been done on a Gigabyte 790GX motherboard that is currently available.
Would be nice with some validation tho. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Newblar
Agreed. :hammer: I wonder how would ocing results change if they used an 790FX mobo (e.g. ASUS M3A79-T Deluxe). Anyway, 6+ GHz is an astonishing result. :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
Now this is much better then a slide. Impressive result AMD and OCers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Newblar