26th of march is not now is it ? hold ya breath...
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26th of march is not now is it ? hold ya breath...
http://www.techeye.net/assets/upload...rmi/Fermi6.JPG
that glowing logo looks so hawt!!!
really cool !!!
Agreed
GTX470 will have this too?Quote:
Originally Posted by LAMB OF GOD
well you def seem to prefer an antithesis over a thesis :DQuote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
625/1250/900...
those are really low gddr5 clocks...
5870 comes at 1200, thats 33% higher...
i wonder if nvidia clocked the mem that low to diferentiate the 470 and 480, or if they really cant clock higher...
You think Nvidia cranked out 60 000 cards in 2 months?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed_X
That number might be right for the total Ax allocation over the next few months.
And you have this info from whom... Charlie?Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
Well isn't that the basis for debate?Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Or maybe more bandwidth won't help because the bottleneck is elsewhere. It could be any number of reasons and we will know soon enough. I'm amazed that nothing solid has leaked yet. Two weeks to go.Quote:
i wonder if nvidia clocked the mem that low to diferentiate the 470 and 480, or if they really cant clock higher...
no, charlie has nothing to do with this... you know, not everybody who questions a rumor that would be good news for nvidia has some connection to charlie... some people are really paranoid when it comes to charlie :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
it doesnt really make sense for nvidia to have that many parts at launch... they couldnt sell any cards for over half a year now, they just couldnt... and now all the sudden they have a big batch of cards for the launch? when even jensen said gf100 cards will only REALLY be available in the second half of this year? so there, nothing to do with charlie, simply based on what mr nvidia himself said a launch with 60k cards is unlikely...
what do you mean? a healthy balance of thesis and antithesis is usually the best imo... bull and bear... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
yes, just like with rv870 that doesnt scale all that well with more bw either...Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
tsmc's public production rates for the 40nm processQuote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
if tsmc is only able to produce 80,000 wafers per quarter, i just can't see nvidia having 60,000 gf100 chips ready and waiting right now. availability will probably be scarce until tsmc ramps production further. i'm not doubting that there will be cards ready on the 26th, but good luck getting one for a reasonable price...
275W GTX480, wow...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zer0th
depends on the yields...Quote:
Originally Posted by 570091D
thats around 1K wafers per day...
lets say nvidia can use up half of tsmcs capacity, rather optimistic, but lets see where that takes us...
100% yield = 100 fermis per wafer (roughly) = 50k fermis per day
50% yield = 50 fermis per wafer = 25k fermis per day
25% yield = 25 fermis per wafer = 12K fermis per day
10% yield = 10 fermis per wafer = 5k fermis per day
even at 10% yields nvidia could stock 60k fermis in 2 weeks using their tsmc capacity for fermi only, or in 4 weeks using half of their allocated capacity.
so this actually makes sense and sounds very possible...
this only shows that its possible with tsmcs wafer output... if the yields would really be 10% then each chip would cost 500$ and it just wouldnt make sense for nvidia to produce a lot of chips, so while tsmc COULD supply nvidia with 60k chips in one month even at low yields, nvidia probably wouldnt do it.
provided the wafer output is correct... the amount of fermis available at launch depends entirely on nvidia... if they want, they can launch it with 60k available right away. if its less, then its most likely not tsmcs fault, but yields are so bad that it doesnt make sense for nvidia to produce a lot.
I sure hope the GDDR5 is at least 4000 and not merely 3600. 144GB/s is on the low side for a new card even if it isn't the top sku... And if the 275watt info is true, the 480 better be like a rabit out of a hat otherwise... :soap:
And lol at Charlie. You can totally tell that he is making fun by claiming he was wrong ( when infact more than anything it proves he was right... +/-5watts is nothing to fight about )
So it only takes one day for TSMC to get the order, cook the wafer, get it cut, test it, send it to Nvidia to test, Nvidia to get the kits to AIBs, and AIBs to get the cards manufactured, packed and shipped?Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Hmmm... I guess we dont have a facepalm smiley.
Also, although we don't know the exact numbers of parked Ax wafers, those wafers have to last them until Bx is ready... which best case is end of Q2.
Both GTX 470/ 480 ES tested are downclocked versions, and they using an old version of drivers-for GTX 470/480.Quote:
625/1250/900...
those are really low gddr5 clocks...
5870 comes at 1200, thats 33% higher...
i wonder if nvidia clocked the mem that low to diferentiate the 470 and 480, or if they really cant clock higher...
The clocks will be a little higher( not 750 dream).... probably 675/1350/1100( GTX 470) and 650/1300/1000 GTX 480.
To much hAT(e)I on this thread....Ati fanboys forget their 2900XT dark age, and they forget their nightmare 8800GTX...
Both GTX 470/480 will be good cards...
Hopefuly GTX 460 will come in may and smash GTX 5770/5830/5850 at price/performance.
That looks like the HDMI (audio out) connector,anyone knows what it actually is?
edit*
Thanks VVV :up:
spdif passthru for hdmi outQuote:
Originally Posted by SocketMan
I'll believe the ES/non final BIOS part.Quote:
Originally Posted by xdan
Why would you figure the 480 would have a lower memory clock... If anything the memory clock will be at least the same, most likely more. The extra bit width helps but not that much.
As far as hate, I wouldn't go that far. We've just yet to see / hear anything that contridicts the direction things seem to be going. Anyways how are past gpu generations success or lack there of relavent? Yes the 2900XT sucked and yes the 8800GTX took the trash to the curb but what does that have to do with today? I don't care if Nvidia released an awesome product line in the past ( I owned a 8800gtx for a year and a half from launch week ) if they don't continue to do so.
In closing it would be nice if all of our pessimism could be greeted with a pleasent surprise is all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zer0th
loved the link saying oak ridge national lab doesnt want a fermi cluster.... :D
http://forum.donanimhaber.com/m_38397749/tm.htm
DH claims that it has acquired information about GTX 480 and 470.
Says that GTX 480 is a 512SP part, and its TDP is.......................... 298W
GTX 470 is 225W.
Overclocked GTX 480 is 310W.
Even Charlie is saying 275W....
Initially yes, but than it was pretty much as GTS 640 MB, later sometimes between GTS 640 MB and GTX. But the power consumption was bad, it's true...Quote:
Originally Posted by xdan
Fermi = 225W (or 275W)Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
Not the end of the world!!
Probably while using some special GPGPU applications only. :yepp:
Despite all the nay-saying, it IS a FIXABLE problem. Just look at progress G92 made just by switching PCB, or reduced power on higher clocked HD4890.
Charlie is just being ultra-paranoid. Architecture is no more broken than it was in X2900XT - and despite power management and Anti-aliasing bugs, that card still got great performance in many games, and was the basis for HD48xx.
In the end, when it launches, (just as the HD5xxx) the hype will evaporate to reveal pretty typical average looking video cards with double horsepower of old generation.
Totally agree...Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
soon nvidia will ask extra psu for graphic card only or go voodoo way with external adapter and after that ..... :D
Not sure from where is this quote...
Quote:
"Enough with the technical gobbledygook. What will cards based on the GF100 perform like in games? Unfortunately, we don't really know. Nvidia's early benchmarks has it performing up to twice as fast as the Radeon HD 5870 (ATI's fastest single-chip DX11 graphics card) in some tests. Those are usually directed geometry-heavy benchmarks, though. In real games, it looks like performance will be anywhere from 20-50% faster, depending on the game and settings. Nvidia promises dramatically better performance with 8x anti-aliasing modes this time around, and a much lower performance hit over the 4x MSAA modes (which would put them nicely in line with ATI's latest GPUs). A new 32x coverage sampling anti-aliasing mode could be the new high quality mark, and might be fast enough to be truly useable, but we'll have to wait for our testing to bear that out."
If it comes out like the 2900XT that is horrible for the short term though. They were hyping it to be another 8800GTX, so if comes in at anything less than 30% over the 5870 it's a short term failure in my mind. In the long run, it's yet to be seen how the architecture will work, the speculation on the first series is already grasping at straws so how can you guess the long term viability of it?Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
I think the hype has gotten more and more negative the more we know about it, so a typical card, it is now. No typical card has gotten thousands of posts a month before it's launch.
Whatever the true performance is today, you can be sure that a generation 2 fermi with 32/28 nm process will be rockin D11:rocker:
Less than 2 weeks! Either way we can all move on.
True and no typical card has ever got so many delays. Delays give anxiety.Quote:
Originally Posted by weston
It's a flippin' videocard, not a baby. :rolleyes: :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Metroid
who said that? i talked about throughput, not latency... nvidia has A3 since when?Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
its not like they didnt have time to process the wafers, test, bin, build the cards etc
and like you said, they had quite some wafers prepared, so, assuming those werent broken beyond repair, that saved them some time as well...
why? why cant they kick off new wafers? why couldnt they have done so already?Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
an anonymous quote of somebody promising awesome performance... how can you post something like this? at least post a link to where you found it to give it SOME credibility...Quote:
Originally Posted by xdan
why? even in 28nm gf100 will be a big chip and whos to say how good yields in 28nm are?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitriman
Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
Problem was - nobody cared anymore. (2900XT)Quote:
that card still got great performance in many games
Yet nVidia's biggest problem isn't just rushing Fermi out. The whole company seems to have a problem with management and execution not going in sync, and a lot of their grand ambitions in previous years although accomplished to an extent (Consumer CUDA apps etc) are now not really worked on anymore.
And how much power would GF104 take then? How fast will it perform relative to its power consumption? And if this 275W faceplant is true, how the heck are you still gonna get the midrange in laptops?
And ATI is doing all right with releasing so many 40nm products while knowing that TSMC has limited capacity?! Also not the best choice.
They could have sold much more 55nm products at the end of last year, nvidia too.
eric66, ATI has the same problems with power consumption. They use the same process. You will see in 2 weeks.
I'm pretty SURE we know how little power the HD5800s use kthxbai.Quote:
Originally Posted by mapel110
http://techreport.com/r.x/radeon-hd-5830/power-load.gif
why do we have to wait for 2 weeks to see atis power consumption problems?Quote:
Originally Posted by mapel110
yeah, ati suffers from tsmcs issues as well, but i dont think its that much...
tsmc issues are pushing ati to sell their parts at a premium instead of flooding the market with low priced parts like they are used to... thats actually a good thing, i dont think they intended this, but the capacity shortage is pushing their asp up which isnt a bad thing at all... and they still have great 55nm entr level and mainstream parts they can sell for super cheap...
just like nvidia still has G92 in 55nm which they can sell in large numbers for super cheap...
Too bad that's a 2011 process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitriman
What about this year?
ATI has much better yields than (allegedly) nVidia is having with fermi, and as you said, the shortages are letting them sell for a higher price and better margins. The longer it takes fermi to reach store shelves, the longer ATI will keep it's prices inflated.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
no way, TSMC definitely plans 28nm production this yearQuote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsama
risk production, and I wouldn't trust TSCM roadmaps :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by josiahsuarez
Why would they waste more money on producing new Ax silicon when Bx is going to be replacing it down the road?Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
TSMC promised AMD/ATi a certain capacity and didn't come through... not sure how you can blame AMD/ATi on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by mapel110
Just like they projected ramping mass production of 40nm before the end of 2008?Quote:
Originally Posted by josiahsuarez
Naked Fermi on a waterbed.:ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaidev
26.3 (27.3) is not THAT "D" Day ... unfortunately :mad: :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
480: 298 Watt
470: 225 Watt
http://www.donanimhaber.com/GeForce_...timi-18638.htm
aaaaa if true.. The GTX 480 eats tooo much. If i recall correctly 5970 eats around 295 W and 5870 eats around 190 W.....
It's not the end of the NDA concerning Fermi GTX 480/470 ? Some reviews maybe, no ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed_X
Yeah, because developing a chip is what a few engineers do in their free time. AMD/NVIDIA designed RV870/GT300 to be a 40 nm part and TSMC didn't meet their claims. How can you blame the developer for that?Quote:
Originally Posted by mapel110
Quote:
Originally Posted by FischOderAal
but the nvidia and ati engineer work in tandem with the guys at tsmc so if a problem arise they can fix it asap .... wich ati did .... but fermi is still nowhere in sight after 6 months ....
blame it on the engineer on nvidia i say .....
Have someone seen Cat 10.3 Beta Preview? If it's true, Fermi is dead before it's birth :lololo:
A lot of people missed the point that the WSG article is a comparison between 9.11 and 10.3, no wonder the difference is high.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoof
your right, both nvidia and ati should stop all dx11 wafers cause they will be replaced with dx12 parts down the road anyways ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
come on... just cause they will have Bx doesnt mean they will stop Ax... what if Bx is just as bad as Ax, theny they waited for nothing...even if Bx solves their problems, they will need something until then, and even with 10% yields Ax is good enough for tesla cards...
yeah, exactly :DQuote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
well nvidia didnt have anything to work with... their first 40nm parts were tiny 10.1 parts that arrived waaaay late... ati had rv740 which was obviously a better test vehicle than nvidias first 40nm chipsQuote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
rv740 is about the same size as rv840 and half the size of rv870, roughly...
nvidias first 40nm parts are smaller than G92, which is less than 1/4 of GF100...
Most of the 5xxx ATI reviews are from 9.10-9.11.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsama
When consumers look at benchmarks. They take performance as a static number.
When the new reviews for fermi are done and if the 5xxxx cards are rebenched ...totally different story.
Everything will reflect that high difference
Those reviews don't include fermis. :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides
New reviews should use newer drivers, so using 10.2 instead of 10.3 wouldn't make a big difference.
I don't think a serious site would use 9.11 in a new review.
ok so if i get what sayaa said ... ati and nvidia send their last gen card to be a test card form the new fab process... if it come back according to expected specs it means it went well and they can start the real production of intended product right ????
Exactly, which is why I said they should rebench. Duh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsama
All the reviews have been done and published. Final reviews. Ages ago
Everyone references them and not one review rebenches a card past the initial driver packages.
My post was perfect and clear. You're just stirring crap. And it's smelling.
Would someone link me to this 9.11 versus 10.3 article you are all talking about? I have just finished rebenching all the ATI cards with 10.3 drivers and I am seeing very little to no difference between 9.12 and 10.3 on the majority of cards other than the HD 5970...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides
No need to act like an ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides
And no, your post wasn't *perfect*, you wrote "5xxxx", so there goes your perfection Mr. Flawless.
Sure thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com...ver_Comparison
i think it's some with one card but more with cfQuote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1216/
You would say that aren't your alliences with nVidia...or atleast seem to side in their favour....Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
yeah... he isn't with the crowd who base their facts on Charlie's articles and other similar hugely unbiased information. He's clearly a NV fanboy.Quote:
Originally Posted by azza21
He puts out some of the best graphics cards reviews these days so he can be as biased or unbiased as he likes as long as he keeps doing that. In terms of whether or not 10.3 is some huge boost over 9.11 it doesn't really matter. If you look at other reviews at tweaktown etc, you'll see minimal differences from 9.12->10.2. In the end all that matters is what performance is like in Fermi comparisons.
do not question dear leader!!!!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsama
Not 100% sure where those numbers come from (which tests & settings are used) but yes, there are some reasonable gains in DiRT 2 and BF: BC2 from 9.11 to even 10.2 but otherwise, all the other games I have tested (AvP, Far Cry 2, Dragon Age, DoW, Borderlands, Batman: AA in game, etc) have seen next to no differences with single cards. The 10.3 drivers are really designed to take advantage of Crossfire solutions including the HD 5970 as was stated by ATI.
Will the 10.3 drivers cause sudden jumps in performance of ATI's single GPU cards? Not likely but they could make Crossfire all that more appealing.
There are however some things that people should be aware of (and no, this isn't anti-ATI...I am just stating facts):
- The possibility of seeing pre-overclocked 1Ghz HD 5870 cards at or near the launch of NVIDIA's cards is next to nill. Every board partner I have spoken to has been having issues binning sufficient quantities of chips that will clock to 1Ghz with a reasonable amount of voltage. Hence why cards like the MSI Lightning and ASUS Matrix are clocked quite a bit below 1Ghz. Gigabyte might do it with their SoC but I have been hearing 900 - 925Mhz lately.
- The HD 5970 @ $700 is next to non-existent. This means NVIDIA can literally price the GTX 480 (depending on performance) close to the HD 5970 and still have the cards sell extremely well.
Those are just the facts. IMO, ATI's HD 5870 2GB will be a great contender but we all know that since it bundles several expensive DisplayPort dongles, it will be priced excessively high.
I'm seeing couple more game titles and benchmarks benefiting single HD5870 using Cat.10.3beta, but obviously majority of older games have not gained anything or very little. This however doesn't concern me at all because all of them put enough performance @1920x1200 for me already.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
I'm really happy DX11 performance has been increased in this driver release!
Regarding 1GHz factory clocked Cypress I agree 100%. It will take new (successful) revision of chip to bring yeilds good enough to bin 1GHz factory clocked. On the other hand AMD might actually did that already and we just don't know it at this point.
I'm curious if what neilz said on another forum is true state of things or just misinterpretation:
You're completly wrong and that's sad to read this kind of comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by azza21
SKYMTL is one of the trustworthy XS members. Please, use your brain a little more. The world isn't just black or white. The slight differences exist.
None of those are facts though, it's still speculation. The new catalyst drivers are a big improvement over launch drivers, but most review sites won't take the time to re-review the cards. Once the initial results are in, I have rarely seen an update across the board for new drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
The next revision of cypress has been rumored to clock very well, (I know, just a rumor, but the same as what you have been saying) so it's not out of the realm of possibility that 1Ghz cards are on the horizon.
Rumors usually have some truth to them, and it's been a long time since I've heard a positive rumor about fermi that had any credibility. As a potential fermi buyer, I am kicking myself for not buying the 5870 at launch right now :(
Thats not a fact,thats a rumour for now ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
That one i dont get,for one i live in a pretty small and poor country,i can order HD5970 now and have it shipped in 24hrs.Its been like this for months now,the cards are very high end, so there arent alot of them,but not because of lack of them, but retaileres dont wanna stock much of them,cos they sell tiny amount of them,and every price fluctuation can cost them more then they make on them.Quote:
- The HD 5970 @ $700 is next to non-existent. This means NVIDIA can literally price the GTX 480 (depending on performance) close to the HD 5970 and still have the cards sell extremely well.
So two opinions, not a straight 100% facts.
And i bet nvidia will price GTX480 close to HD5970,but the reason is they have small amount of cards too(and definetely MUCH less then 5970 shipped so far.Besides nvidia owners tend to be very loyal.)
This bit seems skewed too, there will be many flavours of 5870 2GB,not just eyefinity edition.And using word "excessively",so what ,nvidias 470 and 480 wont be priced "excessively" too if they offer comparable performance ?.Quote:
Those are just the facts. IMO, ATI's HD 5870 2GB will be a great contender but we all know that since it bundles several expensive DisplayPort dongles, it will be priced excessively high.
There gonna be and are factory overclocked 5870s,not only 1ghz.
One example of such incoming card is asus matrix 2gb.
And yea, pretty much all of this incoming lot of cards are gonna be expensive.Fermis,2gb atis,overclocked 2gb atis and so on.
And the main reason for this seems to be lack of performance and/or availability on a 6 month late nvidia product.
No tough competition=High prices.
Funny that it is coming from someone running Dual HD2900 :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by azza21
where is that review ?Quote:
Originally Posted by spoof
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaV[666]
Talk about pot calling the kettle black. :ROTF: Seriously don't try to perpetuate that bs, atleast not at this forum. 90% of nvidia card owners I see here talk as if they would go either way for their next, where as 90% of ATI card owners start foaming at the mouth should anyone mention buying an nvidia card in their midst. Even with my hatred of flaky support for older games my next card could very well be an ATI. Specially with the plain as day issues with fermi.
most of nvidia users that i know are loyal like dogs i doubt that any of them will change side even if fermi will fail like fx series :D they just need one game to hang on something like doom 3 of this gen lol
sortof, yeah... it doesnt matter if it comes back alright or not, the important part is that its a known to work design, so if something goes wrong, its 99% because of the new mfc process and not a design flaw. if you start a new design on a new process things can get messy... thats why intel and amd always shrink and then start a new design on a known process, ie tick tock...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
you bench with an oced cpu, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
that might explain it... a lot of driver tweaks are related to cpu performance, thats why drivers tend to make the biggest difference on old systems and have small or no impacts on overclocked or highend systems. OR they only show in xfire and sli, where cpu perf is a factor again...
i dont think its impossible to buy a 5970 if you want to buy one... availability is low, but isnt that because there isnt that high of a demand for it?Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
and why are you comparing the 480 with the 5970? and then mention availability? so you think the 480 will be widely available? seriously?
the comment about 1150mhz rv870 on air is odd...
i find that hard to believe... maybe with a massive heatsink, and even then the numbers of those cards should be rather small... but hey, ati might be able to bin as many 1150 rv870 gpus as nvidia can get 480s :D
1150 = 850 + 35%
but you need some headroom for clocks, so if they can clock to 1150 they would be sold as 1100... still a healthy boost and it might get rv870 into gf100 perf terriroty...
i think this is very unrealistic, but IF ati or one of their partners manages to push a single rv870 card to 480 levels... that would be VERY impressive... :D
a 2bn gpu perfmorming like a 3bn gpu... :)
I wasnt doing any namecalling, fanboism or any of that BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dainas
Im talking about loyal customers,thats pretty much best way to describe people who tend to buy/use services of mostly one company.\
And i was not talking about this forum,this is xtremesystems, reality outside it looks pretty different.Im talking about average Joe the gamer, not a hardcore hardware enthusiast :).
And my thoughts arent coming from any forums really, there are trolls everywhere these days, sometimes its hard to assess things on forums properly.I work with few computers stores and have many clients myself.And when they buy nvidia, really most of them stick with it for years, even if at times they get more bang for they buck from ati, and when i explain to them why, they listen to me carefully but rarely change from nvidia to ati.This is brand recognition and years of TWIMTB and some long gone ati problems that are still in people heads.
This is the thing that nvidia did almost always better than ati.
This is a psychological advantage for nvidia, its really there, its the same reason people bought P4 prescotts.BRAND is more important to a lot of people than deep hardware analysis.
btw:
So, remind me, who is doing namecalling bs ?Quote:
where as 90% of ATI card owners start foaming at the mouth should anyone mention buying an nvidia card in their midst.
Besides situation where most nvidia users here would want to change to ati isnt exactly weird this time because ati has dx11 good performing and low power consuming cards for half a year.
And this is the same reason,CURRENTLY ati user has no incentive to switch to team green.It MAY change after fermi release.
or unigene benchmark? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by eric66
Its the custom highend boards, ROG, Matrix, Lightning, etc. he was also talking about overclocking those cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
In so many ways that its ironically funny, nVidia's current situation mirrors AMD Phenom vs Intel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macadamia
Phenom was supposed to be better architecture - native quad. Ended up delayed quite a lot. Like Fermi, its was bigger chip vs Intel's simpler Core2 quad solution.
But, the "real" problem revealed itself 1 year later. Many notebooks and low-end PC continued to ship with Core2 - AMD couldn't put Phenom was too big and power hungry for notebook.
Likewise, unless nVidia is keeping the best secret of all time, they will fail big time in mid-range and low-end (and thus total DX11 revenue). AMD's already saturated market for 6 months. Even if nVidia launched TODAY, they can't turn back time and make up so many months, and AMD can easily cut prices making market penetration very difficult.
EDIT: IMHO I dont think nVidia mid-range will launch in March, or even April.
well, the fastest i heard of was the gigabyte card and that was cut down from 1ghz to 950 and now maybe even to 925, cause the latest rv870 chips dont clock that well anymore... probably a result of tsmc doing some weird things to try and improve yields...Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
the highest ln2 clocks i heard of were 1300... so i REALLY find it hard to believe 1150 stable on air... :D
sigh... : /Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
a 256core fermi with 256bit gddr5 and 700mhz clocks should be pretty fast, about 5850 levels... and it would be the same size as a 5850 as well, if not even slightly smaller... we would have some real competition then... sigh... : /
they would be a lot better off with a 1600MHz 256SP part first. they probably can reuse a lot of dies that dont have all 512 sp's working for the middle range card. maybe even have a dual gpu card based off of that. ;-)
I dunno, the bar for nVidia is pretty high:Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
850Mhz 800SP 128bit (2.4Ghz GDDR5)
May not seem like much, but for fraction of cost and power of HD4870, the HD57xx has nearly same performance and DX11 (ofcourse).
Do you think really nVidia will be making 850Mhz chips anytime this year - remember GT240 = 550Mhz?
Anno 1404 had a huge performance boost with a single 5870 and the 10.2 Catalyst.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
~40% faster then former Catalyst versions in 1920x1200 1xAA/1xAF and ~30% in 1920x1200 4xAA/16xAF
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/h...nitt_anno_1404
I've got a bit of time to kill before we go out to dinner....so I am about to pull a Saaya. Sorry in advance. :rofl:
It really depends on which way you look at things. Pre release drivers are sent out and then months later, there are new games out. So naturally, more recent drivers will perform better in newer games versus drivers that were released months ago. It all comes down to optimizations. Then again, there are those drivers that totally break functionality with a game (I remember a particular instance with NVIDIA drivers and MII: Total War). And yes, they are facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by weston
You were talking to me about not posting facts and then you go and post a totally unsubstantiated rumor. Every point I posted came directly from the mouths of ATI's board partners, not some random internet rumor. I don't even need to quote them to back myself up. MSI, XFX, ASUS, PowerColor, etc. have all clocked their highest-end HD 5870 cards below 925Mhz and that should say something.Quote:
Originally Posted by weston
I am sure there are exceptions due to limited demand in some countries versus the allocation, etc. However, from where I am standing if I wanted to go out and but a HD 5970 right now from one of the large NA retailers (Newegg, NCIX, ZipZoomFly, Amazon) I can find two a ZZF retailing for EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS EACH. The other retailers are all MIA for stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaV[666]
Other than the Eyefinity Edition, all other 2GB ATI cards will be manufacturer-specific and usually attached to high-end special edition cards like the Matrix.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaV[666]
Read it again. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Basically what I am saying is that if the GTX 480 bridges the performance gap between the HD 5870 and HD 5970, NVIDIA can initially price it quite high simply because there will be a sudden influx of GTX 480s into the market while HD 5970s are very rare. I'm not saying that is good for consumers but it would be good for NVIDIA's bottom line. :up:
Ummmm....I play Anno 1404 a lot and there were some pretty significant performance improvements rolled out with the 1.2 patch back in early February. They worked wonders on my older NV gaming system as well. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by johnieboy
Not sure if they are at fault for the performance improvements seen in the charts you linked but it is worth mentioning. :up:
Neliz is just stating what he has seen and heard. CJ has also said the exact samething. You are welcome to believe whatever you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
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Originally Posted by neliz
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Originally Posted by neliz
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Originally Posted by neliz
Also, there is a custom 5970 2x2GB in the works.Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ
http://www.abload.de/img/xfx_4gb_hd_5970_eyefin82y1.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/xfx_4gb_hd_5970_eyefinq4w9.jpg
XFX, Sapphire and ASUS will be offering them.
When you look at "Benchmarks"Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
So its the Catalyst and not the Patch ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Computerbase.de
Benchmarking on an outdated version of a game completely defeats the purpose of a benchmark IMO. But I don't want to derail this thread anymore so I will leave it at that. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by johnieboy
well, they already had the performance numbers from previous catalysts with version 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
always benching from scratch with every driver and game version would be a 24/7/365 job, i guess :p:
Basically we are saying the same thing here, the newer drivers help a lot in newer games as they have added optimizations. Whether or not there will be issues in older games is yet to be seen. And yes, those are facts :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
I dont care if you post rumors, that's all there really is about fermi at this point. It's when you post speculation, and then say it's facts. If you look, I clearly said mine was a rumor. And yes, I have seen the OC 5870s are currently set at 925Mhz or so, but with a improved revision, there's no reason it couldn't be 975 or 1000Mhz. that's only a 5-8% increase so not out of the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
Just for comparison, the Overclocked versions of the 4870 were usually around 775 when the 4890 came in at 850Mhz. I don't know how you are so sure it won't be the same way with the 5870.
Just like B1 fermi could be 40 - 50Mhz faster than A3, don't say it's ridiculous when it's entirely possible.
One could also assume that the die changes that allowed the 4890's clock improvement are already a part of 5870 from launch, what if there is no clock mojo this time.Quote:
Originally Posted by weston
You can really just about rationalize any outcome you want but that simply doesn't mean its going to happen.
Food for thought, when B1 comes out and is great and is able to pull 750/1600. Do you think its gonna be called gtx485, or gtx580?
If current power consumption and core rumours are true, I wouldn't expect a higher clocked revision on the current node. If the 480 is infact 480SPs wed likely see a GTX 480 Ultra or something of the sort. If it IS 512, I dont expect anything better until a shrink is possible.
I think he is talking about the 5890.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neliz
Plus, saying that partners are hitting that speed on air, doesn't mean that's the stock speed (nor that it's stable).
maybe, i believe it all depends on the leakage, as amd has brought the leakage down on phenom2's the clock speeds have been rising with out a process shrink. we could see something similar with gf100, i believe that's what lordec911 has been hinting at with the Bx clues... ati admitted after it launched cypress that it had troubles with channel width and via failure, that could also have something to do with the delays and clock speeds for gf100. time will tell...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickenfeed
He was talking about overclocking those custom cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsama
Yeah, I expect Bx to fix some of the leakage and probably raise clocks a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by 570091D
The via problems were on RV740, due to problems with TSMC's process.
5890 has clocks 950/5,2 GHz
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3740&p=9Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
so the via issue is fixed then?
One of the GTX 480 OC Editions consumes 305W
http://translate.google.com.tr/trans...tm&sl=tr&tl=en
http://www.donanimhaber.com/image.as...pc_dh_fx57.jpg
I hope they know how to measure power as they definitely don't know how to measure memory. 1586MB anyone?
as far as i remember it is 1586
12×128=1586 ?!? You have some strange math :stick:Quote:
Originally Posted by eric66
12 x 128 ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemot
That would be 1536mb, not 1586 ;). Hence Behemot's "strange math" comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax