Why you should use biocide pt. 2 **WARNING: graphic!** also, pump disintegration...

[Sparky]

So about 3 months ago I made a thread about why biocide of some sort is necessary, with pics.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=265263

WELL, I am FINALLY getting around to cleaning it up properly. Uhhh I shouldn't have waited this long. I'll let the pics do the talking
















That impeller on the pump is supposed to be BLUE. That's how gross it is in there...



'nuff said...

[Sparky]

Uh oh it looks like I had a major problem with my pump and I didn't even realize it... the stuff isn't just algae slime, there are PLASTIC SHAVINGS all over the thing and the edges of the impeller are rough

Oh, crap. It never sounded like it was rubbing or hitting anything and I'm not seeing any real signs of impact or abrasion on the pump top! But there is dark plastic powder all over everything through the whole loop. It is like the impeller was disintegrating

[theseeker]

Sparky,
I was just about to say something, until I saw your second post.
Your problem is not H20 related, as you discovered. Personally, I do not put much faith in bio-cides, just use demin or distilled H20 and silver fittings and a kill coil.
Just my 2 cents and good luck cleaning up the mess.

[NaeKuh]

Uh oh it looks like I had a major problem with my pump and I didn't even realize it... the stuff isn't just algae slime, there are PLASTIC SHAVINGS all over the thing and the edges of the impeller are rough (

its platicizer sparky..

nothing to freak out about... and it was most likely in solution until u drained it, where though friction it got deposited on the walls.

Martin, but isn't tap water not safe, warm or not, since it contains lots of minerals?

How safe is that? Especially when you're mixing metals in your loop.
Don't think that is such a great idea. Sure it's convenient, but not safe.

to wash, its fine..

i do it all the time, because you wont get 60psi though anything but city water line.
And you will require that much psi at times to push lodged stuff out.

Its important that you rince tho.

As martin said, it has a lot to do with your city water supply.
If you live in france where its heavily flourated, i wouldnt risk rincing anything out.

If u have hard water, once again, calcium despoits are a PITFA, so i rince out.

I would never fill with city tap water tho, over time if u let it out, it starts to smell bad.
That itself should tell you the quality of water.

Now if i lived in Des Moines, Iowa; Austin, Texas; and Sioux Falls, S.D., i wouldnt mind using TAP water as long as i kept it topped off, and flushed frequently..... As those cities probably have the cleanest tap water.

[Petra]

Sparky, try using Weiman Instant Tarnish Remover on the copper blocks after scrubbing any loose biomass out of the blocks--it should completely strip them (I've had a FuZion base go black before without any sort of scrubbing-removable deposit being present). Keep in mind that this stuff will also strip any sort of anti-tarnish coating off as well, wear gloves, neutralize with dish soap and running water. It's worth a shot as a last resort.

As for the "black plastic shavings" you were noticing, my first thought would be to check the carbon bearing seat (the cup that the ceramic bearing pops into on the underside of the rotor)... aside from that, NaeKuh may be right.

Rubycon's H2O2 suggestion is interesting... something I haven't tried before.

Q-Tips, toothbrushes, and 99% IPA should do a pretty good job cleaning up most of the other parts (like the POM block internals, fittings, pump internals, etc.). Just keep the IPA away from tubing, seals, and anything acrylic and rinse all parts thoroughly after cleaning with IPA. Most people freak out over the use of IPA but, provided that appropriate precautions are taken, it can be used safely.

As a side note, most of the DDC impellers will disassemble with a simple twisting motion, requiring very little effort:

Correct, the pins are for balancing... however, the 2-piece impellers in the DDC-3's aren't glued. A counter-clockwise twist will allow you to remove to top portion for service/cleaning and it snaps back into place with a clockwise twist. Granted, I'm not sure why the OP's would have done that while in operation... unless, perhaps, the upper portion of the impeller wasn't installed properly at the factory or something.

The old DDC-2 impellers, on the other hand, are either really tight or glued--they have the same internal latch setup but I've never been able to get any of my DDC-2 impellers to budge... every DDC-3.x I've tried could be disassembled very easily.

There are 6 tabs on the inside of the upper portion of the impeller which snap into cutouts on the lower portion of the impeller (I've marked both with arrows below).

[Sparky]

Well the biocide I mean to use it silver. It's working beautifully in my other rig.

I can't even seem to get the two waterblocks clean, and those I can scrub. How am I going to get the radiator clean?? I might have to replace everything. I can't afford that

Does anyone have any idea what happened to cause the impeller of the pump to be killing itself like this? Up until I took it apart the pump's been running great, flow has been amazing. Temps were getting worse but that's due to the coating all over everything.... Oh man this sucks so bad

[Vinas]

Well the biocide I mean to use it silver. It's working beautifully in my other rig.

I can't even seem to get the two waterblocks clean, and those I can scrub. How am I going to get the radiator clean?? I might have to replace everything. I can't afford that

Does anyone have any idea what happened to cause the impeller of the pump to be killing itself like this? Up until I took it apart the pump's been running great, flow has been amazing. Temps were getting worse but that's due to the coating all over everything.... Oh man this sucks so bad

Well, I use a submersible pump and depending how bad will pump water + bleach and then water + clr, finally flush with water (just tap water) all right in the kitchen sink. If you're paranoid you could flush with distilled but it's not caused me any problems. After a while it will take most of that black crap right off. The stubborn parts I just use a toothbrush and dish soap. Don't ask how I know :-)


The setup is pretty easy and the pumps can be found at your local do-it-yourself store. The lower block in the pic below had some black gunk in it and the process above cleaned it all out -- this is at the end of the cycle just pumping clean water through it for about a hour or so.

[Gamekiller]

Hmm, all I can suggest is to run some water through the rad with a filter in a loop for a few hours or days..

Edit: Though depending on how well it's stuck in there you may have to add something to the water to loosen it up.

I wonder if dawn dish washing detergent would be helpful/harmful.

[RCG_Bex]

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew icky!

[Sparky]

I'm soaking the block parts in hot water with dish soap. I'm hoping it will loosen this stuff up. Combination plastic dust + algae = nightmare.

Once I've determined the extent of the damages I'll see what the cost is and hopefully then can afford to order replacement parts.

At least I can still put all the air coolers back on to get the system back online.

[Utnorris]

Not sure if bleach is too strong for those parts or not, but I bet it gets rid of the algae.

[Sparky]

What i don't understand is how the impeller color changed. What would cause blue plastic to turn brown/black? It isn't just coated in stuff, it actually is dark

[stangracin3]

soak the blocks in ketchup...

[Sparky]

Trying.

I cut one of the tubes in half. The ground plastic + algae mix is what caused them to get dark. Which means this pump has eaten itself over 3 months ago. Was it still eating itself up to now or had it only done it back then? No clue... Can't say I'd trust using it again however :/

Inside of the tubing

[penguins]

use radiator flush for your rads, don't need new ones.

[Johnny87au]

Learn from your mistakes, everyone has done it

[penguins]

Learn from your mistakes, everyone has done it

That's the damned truth.

[Sparky]

I know. EXCEPT I don't know what my mistake this time around was! I thought it was forgetting biocide, but that wouldn't cause the pump to destroy itself

I'm currently putting air coolers back on everything to at least get operational again.

[paulbagz]

Go for a 1:10 mix of Vinegar to Distilled Water (or stronger) and leave sit in your rads for a while (several hours) but be sure to fully flush as you don't want Vinegar left over when you start your loop again.

Failing that, bleach might be a bit extreme however I've never had to resort to that method.

Let us know how you get on regardless so we know in case this ever happens to us

-PB

[OldChap]

It is a real PITA that I live in UK sometimes (most times). I have a spare d5 or 2 and a pa120.3 that could keep you going for a while, if you can salvage the blocks, but I feel that the postal costs would be prohibitive

[Sparky]

Well the blocks are starting to clean up after soaking for a while but it is very slow going. The issue is getting down in all those crevices. I don't want to put the blocks back in a loop until I'm sure they are clean.

You know what's really sad? my CPU is running slightly cooler on air with an HR-01 plus (good but not the best sink) with dual fans than it was on water
Graphics card is another thing, the stock cooler is keeping it at 75C at idle lol.

[WFO]

I've never used biocide in any of my water-cooled rigs. Just Pentosin from Petra's. http://www.petrastechshop.com/peg11coadb4o.html The tubing gets cloudy after a year. Never any algae or slime.

[Sparky]

OK I scrubbed the impeller and the plastic is still blue. It is just covered in that brown stuff. I am assuming the brown is dead algae? That's the only thing I can think of The impeller is blue so that means the fine brown coating on everything can't be from the impeller grinding itself. And I still don't know what it could have been grinding against, unless delrin is that much harder than the plastic impeller to not show any signs of rubbing whatsoever... The impeller undeniably had coarse plastic grit/shavings stuck to it that I wiped off.

I keep looking at the impeller and thinking maybe it isn't as bad as I originally thought... If I could clean it up it would probably be OK. But, I don't know HOW to clean it up. So far, nothing I've tried aside from scraping with my fingernail is getting this stuff off. That goes for the impeller, the blocks, fittings, and the guts of the radiator. After soaking in hot water and dish soap, the delrin block tops actually were cleaning up fairly well, as did the pump top. So, whatever this stuff is doesn't stick to delrin too well, but it sticks VERY strongly to metal and whatever the heck the pump impeller is. Figures. I'm almost tempted to try something stronger like carb cleaner on the block bases and fittings to cut this stuff.

[Rubycon]

If you can acquire 12% hydrogen peroxide and mix it with warm clean water it makes a very powerful cleaner that's inert to about everything. Just be careful as even 12% H202 is harsh on the skin. (wear gloves and goggles always!)

Soak your parts in this overnight.

The 3% solution found at pharmacies won't work.

[penguins]

I would stray far away from carb cleaner