NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570 in December; AMD to launch Radeon HD 6900 Series on December

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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570 in December 2010

The NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 flagship, based on a fully-enabled GF110 chipset was launched on November 9.

A slightly watered-down version of the GF110, or rather chips that do not meet the GeForce GTX 580 spec, will be placed on the upcoming GeForce GTX 570. The GF110 chip on the GeForce GTX 570 will have one streaming multiprocessor disabled, bringing the total CUDA core count to 480 - the same as the outgoing GeForce GTX 480. Performance is said to be around the GTX 480's level, but with a TDP quite similar to the GTX 470. No further specifications are available, but we would expect 1280MB memory on the new card.

Our source tipped us that some of NVIDIA's partners have mentioned that the GTX 570 is confirmed for December, so we'll just have to wait for it to drop.



AMD launches Radeon HD 6970 and HD 6950 on December 13

AMD has officially responded that they will launch the Radeon HD 6970 and HD 6950 late - on December 13 - from November 22, citing market performance and availability of currently available products.

PR speak aside, we are thinking the delay is simply due to the Radeon HD 6970 being not competitive enough against the GeForce GTX 580, or in a worse case scenario, it is just about as fast as the soon-to-be-launched GeForce GTX 570. Therefore, AMD is making last minute tweaks to operating frequencies (and hence why partners did not receive any final BIOS so far).

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http://vr-zone.com/articles/nvidia-g...3th/10316.html

I think we had a tread on GTX 570 could be wrong tough...

Good news in any case if its 8-10% faster than GTX480 it would be quite popular. But the GTX 560 rumored with 3xx shaders is just pathetic at least they could have given it around the same numbers as GTX470.

i cant wait for a month from now, plenty of new options to choose, and i need a new card badly.
AMD better get a top of the line card out, if it does only compete with the 570 that would be quite disappointing.

hasnt amd already said officially that adjusting the clock speeds of duzens of thousands of chips could take months not weeks to perform? why do "news" sites keep insisting that it is because it wont be competitive?

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Originally Posted by Dimitriman

hasnt amd already said officially that adjusting the clock speeds of duzens of thousands of chips could take months not weeks to perform? why do "news" sites keep insisting that it is because it wont be competitive?

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cause drama sells

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Originally Posted by Dimitriman

hasnt amd already said officially that adjusting the clock speeds of duzens of thousands of chips could take months not weeks to perform? why do "news" sites keep insisting that it is because it wont be competitive?

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Because the news sites don't know better and like the sensational speculation since it attracts (less informed) readers.

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Originally Posted by ripken204

i cant wait for a month from now, plenty of new options to choose, and i need a new card badly.
AMD better get a top of the line card out, if it does only compete with the 570 that would be quite disappointing.

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Can GTX580 beat HD5970 convincingly?

AMD does not need to hurry.

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Originally Posted by informal

Because the news sites don't know better and like the sensational speculation since it attracts (less informed) readers.

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And people saying the HD 6950 would equal the GTX 580 in performance weren't being in the least bit sensationalist?

Honestly, when the facts are lined up, VR Zone's post seems to be much more grounded in reality than many of the others we have seen. One way or another we likely never know what is truly going on behind the scenes.

Old news...
Will GTX570 have 1.5GB of VRAM? That could make it interesting.

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

And people saying the HD 6950 would equal the GTX 580 in performance weren't being in the least bit sensationalist?

Honestly, when the facts are lined up, VR Zone's post seems to be much more grounded in reality than many of the others we have seen. One way or another we likely never know what is truly going on behind the scenes.

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Indeed. Especially neliz at B3D said he was pretty sure 6950 would "trade blows" with the 580. Now he's talking quite to the contrary. What happened?

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Originally Posted by hurrdurr

Indeed. Especially neliz at B3D said he was pretty sure 6950 would "trade blows" with the 580. Now he's talking quite to the contrary. What happened?

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I hear that the 69xx targeted higher clocks, but failed to meet them. Dunno but all I hear is everything didnt go as well as planned. Lets wait till mid December

Make no mistake, im not saying the 69xx will suck, its just not going to be the cow devouring obliterating insanely fast card that people were hoping.

edit: IMO 6970's gonna trade blows with the 580, and the 6950 with the 570.

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Originally Posted by LightSpeed

I hear that the 69xx targeted higher clocks, but failed to meet them. Dunno but all I hear is everything didnt go as well as planned. Lets wait till mid December

Make no mistake, im not saying the 69xx will suck, its just not going to be the cow devouring obliterating insanely fast card that people were hoping.

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at the very least it will be faster than the gtx480, that itself ensures it cant be too far off the 580.

if the 6950 is a little above the 5870, thats "ok", then the 6970 will need to be above a 480 by about 10% to also be "ok" by me

based on old SP count perf relative to new SP count perf, its starting to sound scary that this new 4D isnt uber compared to older 5D.
unless the SP count weve herd is way off. but sofar it seems that 1600 5D shaders is not much different than 1500-1600 4D that would be in the 6950
then comes the question of size. if the chip used by caymen is like 20% bigger than a cypress, but only 25-30% faster, its hardly an improvement that couldnt be had by simply going with a bigger barts core.

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Originally Posted by Manicdan

if the 6950 is a little above the 5870, thats "ok", then the 6970 will need to be above a 480 by about 10% to also be "ok" by me

based on old SP count perf relative to new SP count perf, its starting to sound scary that this new 4D isnt uber compared to older 5D.
unless the SP count weve herd is way off. but sofar it seems that 1600 5D shaders is not much different than 1500-1600 4D that would be in the 6950
then comes the question of size. if the chip used by caymen is like 20% bigger than a cypress, but only 25-30% faster, its hardly an improvement that couldnt be had by simply going with a bigger barts core.

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Im not saying that its not going to be fast, it certainly will be. You might remember me mentioning a month before Barts's release that its gonna be based on Cypress and be very similar, but some people refused to believe me. Anyway, based on what I hear, with it missing the target clocks (albeit not by much, most likely between 850 and 900 when they targeted 950+) its not going to be faster than the 580, most likely trade blows with it. Similarly the 6950 should be around a 570. Thats around 1.4x and 1.2x of Cypress, and thats what should be expected from a next gen card on the same node IMO.

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Originally Posted by LightSpeed

Im not saying that its not going to be fast, it certainly will be. You might remember me mentioning a month before Barts's release that its gonna be based on Cypress and be very similar, but some people refused to believe me. Anyway, based on what I hear, with it missing the target clocks (albeit not by much, most likely between 850 and 900 when they targeted 950+) its not going to be faster than the 580, most likely trade blows with it. Similarly the 6950 should be around a 570. Thats around 1.4x and 1.2x of Cypress, and thats what should be expected from a next gen card on the same node IMO.

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yeah that would be much more respectable in my opinion, a gain of 20% vs 40% over cypress is a difference of just 20% on the charts, but 100% extra 'improvement' difference.

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Originally Posted by Manicdan

if the 6950 is a little above the 5870, thats "ok", then the 6970 will need to be above a 480 by about 10% to also be "ok" by me

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it wouldn't be ok for amd as they could fill that spot with higher clocked barts chips (higher mem clocks)...

6950 has to be at least 20% faster than barts or it wouldn't make any sense to release it...

Interesting end of year products...

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Originally Posted by Dimitriman

hasnt amd already said officially that adjusting the clock speeds of duzens of thousands of chips could take months not weeks to perform? why do "news" sites keep insisting that it is because it wont be competitive?

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So how do we know they were bumping the clocks UP? What if the 6950 was too good and they needed to bump the clocks DOWN so as to get more of them out? Maybe the 6950 with low clocks can trade blows with the 570 maybe even the 580 and the 6970 is the mother load...a monster all in itself. It would be the top enthusist card. :D

Less than 1 month to go. :)

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Originally Posted by Leeghoofd

Interesting end of year products...

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:yepp: A little competition isn't bad. The closer the performance the lower the price.

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Originally Posted by generics_user

it wouldn't be ok for amd as they could fill that spot with higher clocked barts chips (higher mem clocks)...

6950 has to be at least 20% faster than barts or it wouldn't make any sense to release it...

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Not at all.

The yields on the 6970 can't be the greatest really and they have to do something with salvaged parts.

Additionally, the street price of the 6870 is around 260 right now. Something 20% faster could command a price atleast 20% higher and since performance/price gains are not linear as you go up, they could charge 329 for it.

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Originally Posted by generics_user

it wouldn't be ok for amd as they could fill that spot with higher clocked barts chips (higher mem clocks)...

6950 has to be at least 20% faster than barts or it wouldn't make any sense to release it...

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i threw together some quick numbers based on TPU review for the 580 at 1920 resolution

the 6850 is 61% the perf, with 170% the perf/$
6870 is 71% and 148%
the 580 is 100% and 100% btw

so the 6950 if 325$ would get 81% of the 580, its a little over the 5870 (which is 75%), and its price/$ would be 125% of the 580

then for the 6970 at 400$ if it got 91% of the 580 would get a price/$ of 114%

notice the perf numbers for 6xxx (61, 71, 81, 91). then the price difference was a simple 75$ between each other for caymen.

this is kinda the line i was thinking of as being "ok". the 6950 is slightly ahead of the 5870, and the 6970 is slightly ahead of the 480, or soon to be 570. but both are priced quite competitively, while also not having super awesome perf numbers.

if the 6950 was 85% of the 580
and the 6970 was 96% of it,
then the perf/$ would be much more inline with the 68xx and i would be quite pleased.

please remember these are all fake estimates based on purely what if, which simply speculates on perf relative to price ranges. if AMD released a huge power hungry and expensive monster, then sure its more than expected to hopefully beat a 580, and cost just as much. but i think the gap between a 6870 and 6950 is too big, then we will need a 6930 to fill that gap.

well i still wonder what will be under my xmas tree ^^

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Originally Posted by herderien

well i still wonder what will be under my xmas tree ^^

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Coal?

:D

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Originally Posted by Manicdan

if the 6950 is a little above the 5870, thats "ok", then the 6970 will need to be above a 480 by about 10% to also be "ok" by me

based on old SP count perf relative to new SP count perf, its starting to sound scary that this new 4D isnt uber compared to older 5D.
unless the SP count weve herd is way off. but sofar it seems that 1600 5D shaders is not much different than 1500-1600 4D that would be in the 6950
then comes the question of size. if the chip used by caymen is like 20% bigger than a cypress, but only 25-30% faster, its hardly an improvement that couldnt be had by simply going with a bigger barts core.

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how much slower is the 6870 vs 5870, 5 % ( 10% )? do you really think AMD will release a 6950 who will just be a little bit faster of the 5870? it's a non sense, even an overclocked 5870 will do the job so.
Ofc we are speaking about the 6950 but seriously, i see rather the 6950 as fast of the 480 ... i don't think AMD have decided to develop Cayman gpu's in other way... and if the 6950 match 480, it's not really hard for the 6970 to be on the same range of the 580 ( i don't say faster or slower, just in range ). The 580 is not really a revolution in term of performance vs the 480... we are not speaking about a complete new architecture who can draw 50% perf more over the 480 ....

Untill offcourse they have face trouble with the architecture, and something is going wrong... 2-3 weeks more delay, will not really help to this.

But looking at the 6950 vs GTX570 bring an interessant question. 570 will be really close of the GTX480, even equal on paper.. if the 6950 was designed to match it, they are maybe in doubt with it, more of what they can worry about the 6970...

Anyway they can't really change anything 2 weeks before the launch (initially on 22th nov ) , this ask too much of work and money, reflash the gpu's, need send back to validation all gpu's produced, ask to AIB to throw to the trash all the retail boxes ( who get spec on it ), contact their printers, and redo all, without seeing manufacturer workers cost by hours ( nobody work for free ) ... It's not like they will just show a box and 1 gpu flashed to 50mhz more, and all is fine.... this an industry, you can't ask to your partner to do 2x the same work just cause you want it. this will increase the production cost (even for the AIB who just put a stickers on the coolers and print a box ) ... if it was 2-3months ago, and production have not start, ok... but not 2 weeks before the initial launch.

Now AMD could have seen the GTX"580" coming, and prepare the launch differently, keeping a time windows for be able to change 1-2things on last minutes when they will have 100% confirmation of what perf they will face... but this type of practice is not really common on this type of industry where you deal with multiple partners.

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Originally Posted by xVeinx

Coal?

:D

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worse, a mac

I want a dual Fermi card, and also, I wish AMD would just release their 69xx series already, I want to know the performance of the cards. Should be interesting.

Nvidia seems to be doing a few good moves and might be on a financial roll.

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/11/...settle-nvidia/

I don't know how, but Intel might be settling its chipset lawsuit with Nvidia and give them a billion dollars. WTF.

With things like supercomputing and Tegra 2, and from the sounds of it, Nvidia actually giving AMD stiff competition on time this year, its no wonder analysts are upgrading Nvidia to buy again.

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=N...=NVDA;range=3m

Their stock has been going up steadily for the last 3 months and the 4th quarter results are supposed to beat early estimates.

I am happy knowing NVDA will atleast be around from for a while and AMD is not going to crush them as I had original thought when the 6xxx series was announced.

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Originally Posted by ripken204

worse, a mac

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noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo !

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are also reported in the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570 GDDR5 memory to 1536 MB volume associated with the GPU via 384-bit bus. In this edition of the accelerator is expected before the end of this year, and the video card, probably will replace the GeForce GTX 480 model, offering about the same or even better performance for less money.

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Source: http://it-chuiko.com/computers/7143-...sii-gf110.html


Could this be true?

Ops. This could very well be my next card :D

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Originally Posted by Alien Grey

Source: http://it-chuiko.com/computers/7143-...sii-gf110.html


Could this be true?

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Sure why not? at this point its basically disabling 32 cuda cores on the 580 as they had done to the 480 and there is your 570 with less power consumption than 480.

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Originally Posted by Dimitriman

hasnt amd already said officially that adjusting the clock speeds of duzens of thousands of chips could take months not weeks to perform? why do "news" sites keep insisting that it is because it wont be competitive?

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please... what a lame excuse from amd is that...
there have been half a dozen of lame excuses about why the 6900 series is delayed, one worse than the other...

cards that launch in mid december?
sounds like they will miss the holiday shopping spree...
pretty amazing that nvidia managed to get the 580 out in time tbh... :clap:

i wonder what went wrong at ati/amd...
and if the 6900 series really cant compete with gf110, then ouch... that would be a big fail from the red team...

i mean rv940 is 25% smaller than rv870 and not much slower, around 7% on average according to tpu. if your normalize the clocks (7% higher fot rv940), ati needs around 10% less transistors for the same performance with rv9xx vs rv8xx, or gets 10% more performance out of the rv9xx parts.

so an rv970 at the same die size as rv870 should be 10%+ faster, which would put it below a 480, but once you up the clocks it should be on par with a 480/570.

but rv870 wasnt very big, so it would make sense that ati felt more confident especially since 40nm is mature now, and went for a bigger chip.
i would honestly be very surprised to see ati go for the same chip size as rv870 and not more... so lets just look at how big rv970 has to be to beat a 580, and lets assume rv870 clocks, which shouldnt be a problem.

rv870 = 333M
gf110 = rv870+33% (1080 tpu av)
rv9xx@333M = rv870+10%
so we need ~23% more transistors to reach gf110 performance, on average
that would result in roughly 400M transistors... that shouldnt be a problem to make on tsmcs 40nm node these days at all...
and this is with only rv870 clocks at around 850mhz...

to significantly beat gf110 ati would need a 10%+ av lead, again at rv870 clocks that would mean ~440M transistors...
such a chip would still be ~15% smaller than gf110... and since ati knows nvidia is going for such a big chip, why would they be greedy and go for a tiny 400M or even whimpier chip? at the kind of yields tsmc has right now that would barely make a difference in cost...
and then theres scaling which isnt linear, so actually they need a bit more than 400M transistors to reach 580 performance

they have two options, go for a massive chip like nvidia, which might have issues. they would have the fastest single card, but a bit late and they would have to cut down a lot to make it a dual card, which they need to keep the ultimate perf crown.

or, they go for a medium sized chip, between rv870 and gf110, which is slightly slower than a 580 but costs 100$ less, and which combined with a second chip can easily dethrone a dual gf114 card within the 300W limit.

my guess is the latter, as its whats ati has been doing in recent years and worked well for them. what would be the point do copy nvidias strategy which hasnt worked well at all for them recently...

plus, if rv970 would be huge, we would have heard of it, im sure...
all that was leaked is that partners got disabled and fused down cards... no mention of an unusually large die size...

so my guess is ~580 performance for 6970 and ~480/570 performance for 6950, at 399$ and 299$ and at a tdp of 250W+. and thats probably whats causing ati a headache right now, heat... with higher efficiency and stuck on the same node, heat is whats limiting them, not die size...

.. it's the most logical move, specially as they was know Nvidia will release something then .

As you said i don't see AMD AIM the 6970 on the GTX480 level but rather higher, and higher you fall on the 580 range... Why AMD will aim his high end gpu to the GTX480 released 7 month before .. ? It's like if AMD have position the 5870 on the GTX280 level ...

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Originally Posted by saaya

please... what a lame excuse from amd is that...
there have been half a dozen of lame excuses about why the 6900 series is delayed, one worse than the other...

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Are you sure they actually said that?

The only inofficial official AMD statement is that increasing clocks could take months rather than weeks suggesting the delay isn't clockspeed related. The rest of Saaya's post is pretty much in line with most expectations, a chip smaller than GF110 but equally performing giving AMD the edge in perf/mm this time too and Antilles a beast, just like 5970 when it launched.

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Originally Posted by saaya

please... what a lame excuse from amd is that...
there have been half a dozen of lame excuses about why the 6900 series is delayed, one worse than the other...

cards that launch in mid december?
sounds like they will miss the holiday shopping spree...
pretty amazing that nvidia managed to get the 580 out in time tbh... :clap:

i wonder what went wrong at ati/amd...
and if the 6900 series really cant compete with gf110, then ouch... that would be a big fail from the red team...

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Mostly nothing went wrong with AMD. Whats happening is that a lot of Nvidias fanboys are still in awe that the company managed to deliver a product on time and are too blind to see that the 580 barely brings anything new to the table in performance. A lot also still believe that AMD will have a hard time delivering a chip that is merely 20% faster than the previous generation, ignoring the drastic improvement in shader efficiency obtained from the 6800 series as well as the 4d shader rework.

What we are seeing in truth is a tiny few setbacks for AMD being blown way out of proportions by Nvidia fans hoping and preying that their beloved company doesnt end up behind for another generation.

Its really annoying when people care so much about a brand they stop using their brains.

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Originally Posted by Dimitriman

Mostly nothing went wrong with AMD. Whats happening is that a lot of Nvidias fanboys are still in awe that the company managed to deliver a product on time and are too blind to see that the 580 barely brings anything new to the table in performance. A lot also still believe that AMD will have a hard time delivering a chip that is merely 20% faster than the previous generation, ignoring the drastic improvement in shader efficiency obtained from the 6800 series as well as the 4d shader rework.

What we are seeing in truth is a tiny few setbacks for AMD being blown way out of proportions by Nvidia fans hoping and preying that their beloved company doesnt end up behind for another generation.

Its really annoying when people care so much about a brand they stop using their brains.

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I think some of these fanboys as you put it, simply want to see the 6970 out so there is competition for the gtx 580. With these delays not only is there no real competition for the gtx 580, they don't get to see the alternative choice in the form of the 6970.

A three week set back is significant because alot of people will not get there cards before christmas as Saaya has put. For some gamers that are in high school or university, having the card to enjoy for christmas is rather important because it will be when they have the most free time. In addition, having the choice to get the videocard they want and not regret it for a Christmas present is nice too.

I think many NVidia fanboys are simply frustrated by the amount of flak AMD fanboys have said about Nvidia card owners. In addition, from what I can read from your post, they are frustrated with AMD card owners simply being huffy about AMD and how AMD will send NV down like the sword of Damacles.

Look at the gtx 580 thread for example, it was full of AMD fanboy saying the card doesn't exist and the thread should be closed. To me, this is simply a sign of AMD cards don't want to hear good news about Nvidia and want any good news to be denied to Nvidia card owners.

Although the gtx 580 is not a completely new generation, technologically the gtx 480 is more advanced than cypress, it simply has so many flaws that it prevents the card from really being a practical card. The gtx 580 is the card fermi should have been and if it is competitive with AMD next generation card, then we will have a price war. The GTX 580 is the card Nvidia owners can finally have that they can own without being joked about with heatjokes and complete and utter failure in power efficiency. The things the gtx 580 brings to the table are fixes for the gtx 480 and that is exactly what Nvidia needed most. I personally don't think its performance is that great, especially with the new naming moniker, but its a bigger gain than what most refreshes from NV has had as of late.

NV owners just want a competition between the two companies where they are on even playing field. Alot of the AMD fanboys want Nvidia to fall behinds so they can laugh at them and say they are a generation behind. Much of this is unfounded as well as much of the extreme optimism for AMD future products.

Of course there are certain hype Nvidia fanboys like the banned silicon doc who take fanboyism another level up.

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Originally Posted by tajoh111

I think some of these fanboys as you put it, simply want to see the 6970 out so there is competition for the gtx 580. With these delays not only is there no real competition for the gtx 580, they don't get to see the alternative choice in the form of the 6970.

A three week set back is significant because alot of people will not get there cards before christmas as Saaya has put. For some gamers that are in high school or university, having the card to enjoy for christmas is rather important because it will be when they have the most free time. In addition, having the choice to get the videocard they want and not regret it for a Christmas present is nice too.

I think many NVidia fanboys are simply frustrated by the amount of flak AMD fanboys have said about Nvidia card owners. In addition, from what I can read from your post, they are frustrated with AMD card owners simply being huffy about AMD and how AMD will send NV down like the sword of Damacles.

NV owners just want a competition between the two companies where they are on even playing field. Alot of the AMD fanboys want Nvidia to fall behinds so they can laugh at them and say they are a generation behind. Much of this is unfounded as well as much of the extreme optimism for AMD future products.

Of course there are certain hype Nvidia fanboys like the banned silicon doc who take fanboyism another level up.

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Sure I whole heartedly agree about the Christmas shopping time ans the need for competition. Unfortunately AMD will be too late for good price adjustments to take place before the holiday and I am dissapointed with the three week delay. What Im simply stating is that a lot of people automatically assume that a 3 week delay means AMD is on the losing end and wont deliver a competitor to the 580.

That doesnt mean I believe Cayman will destroy the 580 at all I think it will be a +/- 5% close battle, just dont see how AMD cannot improve more than 20% over the 5870 like many say. Hell, even if they did a full blown 1600 shader 6870 chip it would be a good deal faster than the 5870 (considering 6870 is 5% slower with 1120 only). Yet they are still doing more than that so I surely bet on a very competitive Christmas.

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Originally Posted by Dimitriman

Sure I whole heartedly agree about the Christmas shopping time ans the need for competition. Unfortunately AMD will be too late for good price adjustments to take place before the holiday and I am dissapointed with the three week delay. What Im simply stating is that a lot of people automatically assume that a 3 week delay means AMD is on the losing end and wont deliver a competitor to the 580.

That doesnt mean I believe Cayman will destroy the 580 at all I think it will be a +/- 5% close battle, just dont see how AMD cannot improve more than 20% over the 5870 like many say. Hell, even if they did a full blown 1600 shader 6870 chip it would be a good deal faster than the 5870 (considering 6870 is 5% slower with 1120 only). Yet they are still doing more than that so I surely bet on a very competitive Christmas.

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I for one, wouldnt belive that a "1600 shaders barts" would beat GTX580. Shaders are not everything, and its been speculated since its launch that HD5870 shaders might be underused.. in essence it has 1600, but many stay idle most of the time. Teraflops is not everything, remember that GTX580 barely has a peak performance of 1,5 TF, while beating 5870 with its 2,72 TF...
In essence, what I mean is: dont be so quick to qualify a 6870 as big step on efficiency upon Cypress.. Just as GTX580 is Fermi done right, 6870 might be Cypress done right ;)

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Originally Posted by Dimitriman

What we are seeing in truth is a tiny few setbacks for AMD being blown way out of proportions by Nvidia fans hoping and preying that their beloved company doesnt end up behind for another generation.

Its really annoying when people care so much about a brand they stop using their brains.

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Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black syndrome, on the other side of the table they're doing every bit the same with nit picking every detail of Nvidia.

Not long ago its was all about Nvidia's paper launch 580, no availability, they can't do it, can't increase efficiency, smash, bash, etc.

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Originally Posted by Picao84

I for one, wouldnt belive that a "1600 shaders barts" would beat GTX580. Shaders are not everything, and its been speculated since its launch that HD5870 shaders might be underused.. in essence it has 1600, but many stay idle most of the time. Teraflops is not everything, remember that GTX580 barely has a peak performance of 1,5 TF, while beating 5870 with its 2,72 TF...
In essence, what I mean is: dont be so quick to qualify a 6870 as big step on efficiency upon Cypress.. Just as GTX580 is Fermi done right, 6870 might be Cypress done right ;)

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5870 was underused because of the weak front end, 6870 has a much more powerful frontend and is able to use the shaders more efficiently (improved performance/shader in 6870 comes from the new frontend), it was already proven that while 5870 is essentially 5770 x2 it seems to be much more inefficient in terms of perf/shader

i think that 6970 will be on par with GTX580 because amd made more improvements to it than the new frontend used in the 6870, it is supposed to have more shaders than 5870 and there would be no room for a 6950 if 6970 is on par with gtx480....

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Originally Posted by Picao84

I for one, wouldnt belive that a "1600 shaders barts" would beat GTX580. Shaders are not everything, and its been speculated since its launch that HD5870 shaders might be underused.. in essence it has 1600, but many stay idle most of the time. Teraflops is not everything, remember that GTX580 barely has a peak performance of 1,5 TF, while beating 5870 with its 2,72 TF...
In essence, what I mean is: dont be so quick to qualify a 6870 as big step on efficiency upon Cypress.. Just as GTX580 is Fermi done right, 6870 might be Cypress done right ;)

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i think it could
look at the 6850xfire reviews, its 20% more SPs (1920 vs 1600), but the clock speed of the 6870 is also 16% higher. so in theory a 1600ish SP barts core at 900mhz would be near identical to a 6580xifre

and the reviews are showing that being super close to a 5970 and beating a 480, so i feel confident that 1600SP @ 900mhz using the same improvements of Barts, would prove to be very deadly. (and this is all based on xfire scaling efficiency, which might be alot lower than a single larger gpu with better memory speeds)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by highoctane

Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black syndrome, on the other side of the table they're doing every bit the same with nit picking every detail of Nvidia.

Not long ago its was all about Nvidia's paper launch 580, no availability, they can't do it, can't increase efficiency, smash, bash, etc.

---

well paper launch or not they are very hard to find and only few brands whit price premium in EURO land, so I would call it a wide availability either.... ;)

the funny thing in these forums is the idea that any body would just jump for a 500$ gpu card because they need it, get real, minimal volume, those who buy now will never look at any decent review/price/performance compare or whatever... all for christmas yeah right not at that price tag.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Manicdan

i think it could
look at the 6850xfire reviews, its 20% more SPs (1920 vs 1600), but the clock speed of the 6870 is also 16% higher. so in theory a 1600ish SP barts core at 900mhz would be near identical to a 6580xifre

and the reviews are showing that being super close to a 5970 and beating a 480, so i feel confident that 1600SP @ 900mhz using the same improvements of Barts, would prove to be very deadly. (and this is all based on xfire scaling efficiency, which might be alot lower than a single larger gpu with better memory speeds)

---

In Crossfire you have a duplication of ALL hardware parts, something that probably would not happen with a single GPU with 1600 shaders ;)
Thats my point actually, that generic_user already talked about... What matter is not that shaders, but all the chip organization.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Picao84

In Crossfire you have a duplication of ALL hardware parts, something that probably would not happen with a single GPU with 1600 shaders ;)
Thats my point actually, that generic_user already talked about... What matter is not that shaders, but all the chip organization.

---

right and in xfire you also get crappy bandwidth cause it has to duplicate everything.

so imagine they give it some serious 7ghz ddr5 instead of that sub 5ghz crap.

gains and losses can be seen by redoing a larger chip, its not always negative. but it shows CLEARLY that the potential for serious gains of the current arch exist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Picao84

6870 might be Cypress done right ;)

---

thats why its slower... ^^
i think you mean 6970?

and about things being blown out of proportion... christmas shopping is a LOT...
if you miss the christmas season thats not good...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dimitriman

That doesnt mean I believe Cayman will destroy the 580 at all I think it will be a +/- 5% close battle, just dont see how AMD cannot improve more than 20% over the 5870 like many say. Hell, even if they did a full blown 1600 shader 6870 chip it would be a good deal faster than the 5870 (considering 6870 is 5% slower with 1120 only). Yet they are still doing more than that so I surely bet on a very competitive Christmas.

---

I've defenitely to agree with this statement.

If we take into account that a 6870 gives you roughly 73% of GTX580 performance...

Source: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/N...TX_580/27.html

1120 shaders - 73% perf. of a GTX580
1600 shaders - 104.23% perf. of a GTX580

As more shader don't improve performance linearly, it should give you 95% to 100% performance of a GTX580....

So, now let's look to the past...

One 5870 gives you roughly 63% more performance than a 5770...

Source: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_5770/30.html

It's expected that a High end part (6970) to give at least 50% more performance than the midrange part (6870)...

This is all my theory but i think it's pretty plausible... IMHO ATI 6970 will be in worst case scenario equal to GTX580, and in best case 10% faster...

Quote:

---

NVIDIA intends to use the GF110 continue to build a new core product - GeForce GTX 570, this new graphics card will have 480 stream processors, and the GTX 480 as memory allocation estimates or 384-bit/1.5GB GDDR5, This performance and the GTX 480 can be flat.

---

Source: http://lensfire.blogspot.com/2010/11...80-can-be.html


Another confirmation that the GTX 570 is going to have 1.5GB GDDR 5.

If it's really true than it's going to be a nice card.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alien Grey

Source: http://lensfire.blogspot.com/2010/11...80-can-be.html


Another confirmation that the GTX 570 is going to have 1.5GB GDDR 5.

If it's really true than it's going to be a nice card.

---

yep 570 seems to be new champ to get unless of course cayman somehow manages to surprise me which in this case is very doubtful

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saaya

if you miss the christmas season thats not good...

---

AMD has announced they will be ready on December 13th. To retailers and even most consumers, that's past the "Christmas shopping season" so they're already missing it.

9 working days (not including Christmas Eve) does NOT give retailers enough lead time to guarantee shipping times to and from distribution at what is the busiest time of the year.

Typically, retailers in the garment, electronics, and other comodity markets consider the second week of December to be the cut-off for products coming to market for the Christmas season.

Anything after that would be considered fresh meat for the typical "January Sales" timeframe. That IS NOT something AMD wants to get into with a brand new product(s) because it will instantly devalue it when compared to the marked-down existing products.

We have seen this in the past from other launches from AMD and NVIDIA. The option left open is to paper launch the HD 6900 series in mid-December and begin volume shipments in mid to late January in order to avoid the typical market trends that arise right before and after Christmas.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SKYMTL

AMD has announced they will be ready on December 13th. To retailers and even most consumers, that's past the "Christmas shopping season" so they're already missing it.

9 working days (not including Christmas Eve) does NOT give retailers enough lead time to guarantee shipping times to and from distribution at what is the busiest time of the year.

Typically, retailers in the garment, electronics, and other comodity markets consider the second week of December to be the cut-off for products coming to market for the Christmas season.

Anything after that would be considered fresh meat for the typical "January Sales" timeframe. That IS NOT something AMD wants to get into with a brand new product(s) because it will instantly devalue it when compared to the marked-down existing products.

We have seen this in the past from other launches from AMD and NVIDIA. The option left open is to paper launch the HD 6900 series in mid-December and begin volume shipments in mid to late January in order to avoid the typical market trends that arise right before and after Christmas.

---

who says there won't be volume available 13th december?
don't know about you but I see shopping is more during weekend before christmas and christmas weekend itself... btw many European countries give presents on new year... that leaves us with 1 more shopping week. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alien Grey

Source: http://lensfire.blogspot.com/2010/11...80-can-be.html


Another confirmation that the GTX 570 is going to have 1.5GB GDDR 5.

If it's really true than it's going to be a nice card.

---

totally depends on 6950-6970 price/performance/power if it will be good card or not, unless you are an nvidia fanboy off course

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duploxxx

who says there won't be volume available 13th december?
don't know about you but I see shopping is more during weekend before christmas and christmas weekend itself... btw many European countries give presents on new year... that leaves us with 1 more shopping week. :D

---

In store shopping and online shopping are totally different things. If I am buying a present online I am not going to do 12 days before christmas.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duploxxx

totally depends on 6950-6970 price/performance/power if it will be good card or not, unless you are an nvidia fanboy off course

---

You're right and also the price you've got to pay for the GTX 570. I think that with the 480 stream processors and the 384 bit bus 1.5GB GDDR 5 it ain't going to be cheap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duploxxx

who says there won't be volume available 13th december?

---

As I said: for the vast majority of retailers, December 13th is far too late even if there is stock at distys and in e-tailer's loading docks.

I am not saying that AMD will paper launch the HD 6900 series. What I am saying is that in my opinion, they SHOULD paper launch it or at least launch it with limited availability until the January retail pricing blitz ends.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SKYMTL

As I said: for the vast majority of retailers, December 13th is far too late even if there is stock at distys and in e-tailer's loading docks.

I am not saying that AMD will paper launch the HD 6900 series. What I am saying is that in my opinion, they SHOULD paper launch it or at least launch it with limited availability until the January retail pricing blitz ends.

---

... my chick really diggs your logo ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saaya

thats why its slower... ^^

---

Speed has nothing to do with it, as they clearly could make it faster. They just didnt because Cayman is their new architecture.
When I say that Barts is Cypress done right, it means that its probably a more balanced chip, avoiding waste that Cypress could have...

GTX 570

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/4629/80649753.jpg

Quote:

---

690/1380/3800 MHz

---

Release market

12/8/2010

http://bbs.expreview.com/viewthread....om=recommend_f

So.......what new games are coming out? Now that we get new video cards every month

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kingcarcas

So.......what new games are coming out? Now that we get new video cards every month

---

Crysis 2. ;)

Civilization V while heavy cpu bound will also bring a GTX 580 to its knees.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cold2010

GTX 570

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/4629/80649753.jpg





Release market

12/8/2010

http://bbs.expreview.com/viewthread....om=recommend_f

---

Step 1: Use stock GTX 580 image

Step 2: Photoshop on a "GTX 570" moniker

Step 3: Publish

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Step 1: Use stock GTX 580 image

Step 2: Photoshop on a "GTX 570" moniker

Step 3: Publish

---

I loled hard , was thinking the same seeing the photos .... i think he have just update the "7" on the previous photos they have shown on the same site who was surface on the 580.

But as the card will surely look similar, untill the cooler "vapo-chamber" is no more needed on it. ( will permit them to win some money on the cooler )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Picao84

Speed has nothing to do with it, as they clearly could make it faster. They just didnt because Cayman is their new architecture.
When I say that Barts is Cypress done right, it means that its probably a more balanced chip, avoiding waste that Cypress could have...

---

yes, its more balanced, but that doesnt make it better... its slower...
ask gamers whether they want a vga that is "well balanced" or a vga that gives them "more fps" ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saaya

yes, its more balanced, but that doesnt make it better... its slower...
ask gamers whether they want a vga that is "well balanced" or a vga that gives them "more fps" ;)

---

As we know, the HD6870 is more of a HD6770. If the name wasnt changed, to accomodate Fusion APUs it seems, it would probably be HD6770.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kadozer

Civilization V while heavy cpu bound will also bring a GTX 580 to its knees.

---

really? i can even play that on my laptop with dualcore and nvidia mobile, although i must say it isn't that fluent at all it is possible. I play at home with i7 2,8ghz and 5750 on a 1620*1200 res very fluent and more then enough detail. What resolution and settings you require to play something... its like sc2 you need to play the game, not looking at micro details.

graphics market is hot

cpu market next year!!

http://translate.google.com/translat...late.google.de

nApoleon says release date for 6900 is December 7th. If it's true it could mean they want to release the cards before the rumored GTX 570 release date.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duploxxx

really? i can even play that on my laptop with dualcore and nvidia mobile, although i must say it isn't that fluent at all it is possible. I play at home with i7 2,8ghz and 5750 on a 1620*1200 res very fluent and more then enough detail. What resolution and settings you require to play something... its like sc2 you need to play the game, not looking at micro details.

---

Remember, to each their own. Some of us buy high end cards in order to see all the details. Why? Because we like it. :D (That and the obvious e-peen and tons of women)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soultaker52

Remember, to each their own. Some of us buy high end cards in order to see all the details. Why? Because we like it. :D (That and the obvious e-peen and tons of women)

---

correction, pictures of women.... but i don't need a highend graphics for that even crappy intel GMA will do fine :rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duploxxx

correction, pictures of women.... but i don't need a highend graphics for that even crappy intel GMA will do fine :rofl:

---

not really... 2d image quality on intel igps SUCKS :mad:

I'm anxious to see the 6900 series!

Quote:

---

7xx/14xx/19xx MHz, 480SP, MC320, GDDR5 1280MB $3XX

---

http://bbs.expreview.com/viewthread....om=recommend_f

so basically:
700/1400/1900 MHz, 480SP, MC320, GDDR5 1280MB $300 :D

gtx 570 work for PhysX


http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9043/580brother.jpg

http://www.xfastest.com/viewthread.p...extra=page%3D1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saaya

so basically:
700/1400/1900 MHz, 480SP, MC320, GDDR5 1280MB $300 :D

---

No clocks are higher than GTX480 and price is most likely similar to 6950 at $349 but the GTX570 could go as high as $399.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pantsu

http://translate.google.com/translat...late.google.de

nApoleon says release date for 6900 is December 7th. If it's true it could mean they want to release the cards before the rumored GTX 570 release date.

---

Retailers are receiving their first shipment of cards this week from most AIBs.

Palit GTX 570
http://www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/131...-som-cataclysm

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7...forcegtx57.jpg

480SP..
core :732mhz / 1464mhz
Memory: 3800mhz - 320bit / 1280mb
225Watts

Well there goes the 1536 MB rumor. Not that it matters that much, 1280 MB should be enough for most. Still this seems to be faster than a GTX 480 so the difference is maybe 10% compared to GTX 580. Wonder how much they'll ask for it...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pantsu

Well there goes the 1536 MB rumor. Not that it matters that much, 1280 MB should be enough for most. Still this seems to be faster than a GTX 480 so the difference is maybe 10% compared to GTX 580. Wonder how much they'll ask for it...

---

Based on your analogy the MSRP will be 449.99USD. :D

Well it does have less memory, and they probably lower the price to something like 399$. Of course ultimately the price will be decided by Cayman.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pantsu

Well it does have less memory, and they probably lower the price to something like 399$. Of course ultimately the price will be decided by Cayman.

---

I'm with you on this. My guess is the performance disparity between the 570/580 should be even a little less than the 480/580 on average ( more in some things, less in others )

so are both camps leaving a huge gap between 250$ and 350$?
we got mainstream (460 and 6800s), then we got extremes (580/570 and 6900s)
but not much info on whats going to be worth about 300-325$

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Manicdan

so are both camps leaving a huge gap between 250$ and 350$?
we got mainstream (460 and 6800s), then we got extremes (580/570 and 6900s)
but not much info on whats going to be worth about 300-325$

---

your right the jump in performance is huge and the price will be to, I would guess to see this at 350 (if not higher) with a GTX 460 selling at 200 thats a big gap for Nvidia to have... same for AMD given the anticipated Cayman performance next closest thing is 250 for a 6870...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [XC] hipno650

your right the jump in performance is huge and the price will be to, I would guess to see this at 350 (if not higher) with a GTX 460 selling at 200 thats a big gap for Nvidia to have... same for AMD given the anticipated Cayman performance next closest thing is 250 for a 6870...

---

seems like we really need the 560 and 6930 soon. chances are they are scheduled for like feb-mar and we will hear about them within a few weeks of the 570 and 6900 launch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Manicdan

seems like we really need the 560 and 6930 soon. chances are they are scheduled for like feb-mar and we will hear about them within a few weeks of the 570 and 6900 launch.

---

A full GF104 with the change in transistors found in the GTX 580 would lead to a beast of a midrange card. I mean, the current GTX 460 design clocks like crazy, so with the design change added to it plus the extra shaders...well...

The 6930 had better be beastly to keep up with that.

Personally, I'm hoping both camps really come with their all this round! :up:

Im waiting a gtx 570 with 2560mb!
:asd:

This 570 seams to be pretty close to 580. Maybe ~10% difference in performance? In case, if it gets a 30-40% price-difference, then it would be a good deal for SLI-setup.
The price will more depend on AMD's next move tho. If AMD can deliver a competitive GPU in time, then this can end up as a pretty good deal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sam_oslo

This 570 seams to be pretty close to 580. Maybe ~10% difference in performance? In case, if it gets a 30-40% price-difference, then it would be a good deal for SLI-setup.
The price will more depend on AMD's next move tho. If AMD can deliver a competitive GPU in time, then this can end up as a pretty good deal.

---

i bet for +- 5% more of a GTX480, so yes all will depend the price ...

Given Nvidia tend to head of the 6900 cards by launching a few days early they can price it where ever they see fit. Now those prices holding true after December 13th remains to be seen. I'd hazzard a guess the 570 should run around the 380USD mark on the 7th.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4...2485950587.jpg

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/464...4868662335.jpg

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6...7104576658.jpg

http://openbox.oc.com.tw/article/?aid=74369

So Dec, 7th for GTX570. And either Dec, 7th (which is less likely) or Dec, 13th (which would go according to the plan) for HD6900 cards.
And I also want a holiday package. :(

I know some of you dislike KitGuru, but here are some news: GTX570 launches in the UK at 299 pounds. True or false, dunno...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zalbard

So Dec, 7th for GTX570. And either Dec, 7th (which is less likely) or Dec, 13th (which would go according to the plan) for HD6900 cards.
And I also want a holiday package. :(

---

Yeah, this the way it should be. I like when they release on top of each other. It's good for us consumers.

If AMD can compete on performance, and deliver in time, then probably nVidia will cut the price, and maybe release a new GPU too. Then it will be a really good time to buy GPU.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaMcO

I know some of you dislike KitGuru, but here are some news: GTX570 launches in the UK at 299 pounds. True or false, dunno...

---

news KitGuru = fail

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaMcO

I know some of you dislike KitGuru, but here are some news: GTX570 launches in the UK at 299 pounds. True or false, dunno...

---

I don't know if that news holds true, but that price sounds right to me. Specially if AMD can release a competitive GPU in time.

well isnt that special. impressive even! I think I would like just a little bit of that for myself. give me a taste. put it in there

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cold2010

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4...2485950587.jpg

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/464...4868662335.jpg

---

GPU-Z v0.4.9

Quote:

---

Added support for GeForce GTX 570, GTX 460 SE
Added support for PCI-Express 3.0
Added PowerColor Giveaway
Added Colorfire PCI vendor ID
Added detection for AMD Radeon HD 6310, HD 6370
Fixed BIOS >64k reading on GF110
Added GT215 based GT 220
Fixed TMU count on GF104
Improved default clock reading on GeForce GTX 580
Better error handling for memory type detection code

---

GTX 570 price in UK:
http://www.yoyotech.co.uk/listing-pr...s&category=611

255£ + vat 17.5%

so 300 euro + vat or 400 US$.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilgamesh

GTX 570 price in UK:
http://www.yoyotech.co.uk/listing-pr...s&category=611

255£ + vat 17.5%

so 300 euro + vat or 400 US$.

---

:up:

nVidia GeForce GTX570

Latest Fermi technology with a core speed of 732MHz with 1.28GB of 320-bit GDDR5 memory at 3,800MHz

Based on GF110 processor with 480 CUDA Cores, it has two 6 pin power connectors and draws 225w.

so its looking to be 50$ cheaper than a 480, a hair faster, and consuming 50W less of power

But less VRAM.