AM3+ is backward compatible with the AM3, but Bulldozer is for AM3+ only

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Advanced Micro Devices said that its next-generation desktop processors code-named Zambezi will use socket AM3+ platforms, which will be backwards compatible with the firm's existing AM3 products. While the latter is an advantage for the platform, it may be a disadvantage for eight-core processors based on Bulldozer micro-architecture.

"The existing G34 and C32 server infrastructure will support the new Bulldozer-based server products. In order for AMD’s desktop offering to fully leverage the capabilities of Bulldozer, an enhanced AM3+ socket will be introduced that supports Bulldozer and is backward-compatible with our existing AM3 CPU offerings," an official from AMD said in an interview with Planet3DNow web-site.

Apparently, it was possible for AMD to make Bulldozer microprocessors compatible with existing AM3 infrastructure, but in order to do that, the company would have to sacrifice certain important features of the new core.

"When we initially set out on the path to Bulldozer we were hoping for AM3 compatibility, but further along the process we realized that we had a choice to make based on some of the features that we wanted to bring with Bulldozer. We could either provide AM3 support and lose some of the capabilities of the new Bulldozer architecture or, we could choose the AM3+ socket which would allow the Bulldozer-base Zambezi to have greater performance and capability," the official said.

The compatibility with older microprocessors allows AMD to simplify transition to the new micro-architecture and process design since the new AM3+ platform will support inexpensive chips from day one. However, such compatibility also means that AMD Zambezi processors will only support dual-channel memory controller. Considering the fact that all modern high-end Intel Core i7 processors with up to six cores feature triple-channel memory controller, it is unclear how AMD plans to "feed" eight cores of Zambezi with dul-channel DDR3 without creating bottlenecks.

AMD Bulldozer-based processor code-named Zambezi will have up to eight cores along with a new TurboCore dynamic acceleration technology. Thanks to the new micro-architecture the chip promises to be faster than existing AMD products.

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AM3 boards support only AM3 processors
AM3+ boards support AM3 processors and AM3+ processors

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Originally Posted by MAS

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this means Orochi will run on todays AM3 motherboards after the bios update

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I think you misinterpreted the article.

It says that AM3 CPU's will be compatible with AM3+ motherboards, not the other way around. The article says that new chips (Bulldozer-based Zambezi) will only be compatible with AM3+ motherboards. However, you can use old Phenom II/Athlon II processors with an AM3+ motherboard as well.

In practice people will still more or less need a new motherboard. 1) Not all motherboards will get BIOS updates, or they come late. 2) The CPU will be somewhat crippled feature wise with AM3 boards, even if the manufacturer releases a new BIOS.

Well, it's great that it is possible to use (albeit limited)BD on some existing boards.

Edit: Oh yeah, if it is the other way around.. Nothing new here. :)

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"The existing G34 and C32 server infrastructure will support the new Bulldozer-based server products. In order for AMD’s desktop offering to fully leverage the capabilities of Bulldozer, an enhanced AM3+ socket will be introduced that supports Bulldozer and is backward-compatible with our existing AM3 CPU offerings," an official from AMD said in an interview with Planet3DNow web-site.

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Wrong. That's AM3 CPUs compatible with AM3+ motherboards, but not AM3+ processors compatible with AM3 mobos.

This has been verified many times. Heck, how could you miss this.

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Desktop Bulldozer Processors Will Require New Platforms - AMD.

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Originally Posted by Mad Pistol

I think you misinterpreted the article.

It says that AM3 CPU's will be compatible with AM3+ motherboards, not the other way around.

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let's listen to M-r Fruehe opinion

Not really sure I'd want to drop my PII into an AM3+ board... What's the point? Will it buy me better OCing over 890FX?

I'd think at that point, you'd just go DB w/ an AM3+ purchase and leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by MAS

let's listen to M-r Fruehe opinion

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He is more involved in server part and doesn't answer on desktop questions :shrug:

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Originally Posted by [XC] Synthetickiller

Not really sure I'd want to drop my PII into an AM3+ board... What's the point? Will it buy me better OCing over 890FX?

I'd think at that point, you'd just go DB w/ an AM3+ purchase and leave it at that.

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Do we have any idea what sorts of features will be featured on a "990FX" chipset? It might actually be worth it if there's something good included... like the ability to put in a few nvidia cards in SLI, a la Intel...

Otherwise, you're exactly right.

The point of AM3 CPU compatibility with AM3+ socket is to tide over potential Orochi buyers until Orochi actually hits the market. Who wouldn't wait for Orochi if he can use future aggressively priced 3.3(3.7GhzT)/3.4(3.8GhzT) Thuban in AM3+ board,or relatively cheap 1065T/1055T/1035T that OC like crazy?

Initially I was thinking of the old Socket-7/Super-Socket-7 thing AMD had going.

Anyways, I don't really see the point of an AM3-owner "upgrading" to an AM3+ board.

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Originally Posted by Mad Pistol

Do we have any idea what sorts of features will be featured on a "990FX" chipset? It might actually be worth it if there's something good included.

Otherwise, you're exactly right.

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Well, I'm sitting on a mini-itx rig (which is overkill honestly), but I am thinking whatever shrink is better of the upcoming chips, I'll go with it( AMD or Intel). I guess that's mid to late 2012. The later AMD gets in releasing this, the more catching up to Intel they have to do.

A Q2 push back is difficult, so there better be some improvements. I hope 6 USB3, all SATA 6 etc etc.

So will AM3+ use the 9-series chipset?

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Originally Posted by Frontl1ne

So will AM3+ use the 9-series chipset?

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Well yes.

Do you mean to ask if the AM3+ socket will debut on the 9 series chipset or if the AM3 original will share the 9 series chipset instead?

So, acording to the article, AM3+ will have a dual channel memory bus so AM3 cpus can work?.
They dropped a potential three-channel bus in order to allow people to run their old cpus in new mobos? Not a good decision i think, at least on desktops.

I'm all for backwards compatibility, but in this case it doesn't seem like a good idea. Those who buy a new mobo don't usually stick with an old cpu...
Were it the other way around (Letting people use AM3+ cpus on AM3 mobos) then things would be different. AM3+ would have triple-channel bus, and people could also enjoy the new cpus simply by sticking it on their current mobo (no big change in the platform).

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Originally Posted by Pontos

So, acording to the article, AM3+ will have a dual channel memory bus so AM3 cpus can work?.
They dropped a potential three-channel bus in order to allow people to run their old cpus in new mobos? Not a good decision i think, at least on desktops.

I'm all for backwards compatibility, but in this case it doesn't seem like a good idea. Those who buy a new mobo don't usually stick with an old cpu...
Were it the other way around (Letting people use AM3+ cpus on AM3 mobos) then things would be different. AM3+ would have triple-channel bus, and people could also enjoy the new cpus simply by sticking it on their current mobo (no big change in the platform).

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Oh? I thought the AM3+ was going to be quad channel. I have nothing to back that up, I just was under the impression that it would be since Intel is going in that direction.

Staying with dual channel is stupid. Honestly, at this point, if AMD finally said they'd make a new socket that isn't 940 pins, maybe they could do something better. I don't know if the socket is holding them back or not.

Lack of anything past dual channel isn't exactly aw-inspiring. :shakes:

Seriously guys, didn't Benchmarks show that there is no to minor difference between Dual/Triple Channel? (Intel 1156 vs. 1366)

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Originally Posted by soya_crack

Seriously guys, didn't Benchmarks show that there is no to minor difference between Dual/Triple Channel? (Intel 1156 vs. 1366)

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i recall this as well

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Originally Posted by soya_crack

Seriously guys, didn't Benchmarks show that there is no to minor difference between Dual/Triple Channel? (Intel 1156 vs. 1366)

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For non-IGP CPUs, even single-channel is not a problem.

I think it'll work fine. There are boards available that are AM3 compatible and are HT1.0, of course that means you loose the extra oomph of HT3.0 has to offer...

Guys, how many times have I given this answer?

Why do you keep recycling news articles that are wrong and believe that this is somehow new information that invalidates all of the things that you have heard from AMD so far?

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

Guys, how many times have I given this answer?

Why do you keep recycling news articles that are wrong and believe that this is somehow new information that invalidates all of the things that you have heard from AMD so far?

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because their bored lol
and crave information

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

Guys, how many times have I given this answer?

Why do you keep recycling news articles that are wrong and believe that this is somehow new information that invalidates all of the things that you have heard from AMD so far?

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Well, it would be nice to know whats exactly different about 9xx chipset that is so important 8xx series cant handle in bulldozer, it would be some information without giving anything important about BD.
Same pin count, backwards compatible with current chips.Intel talked in the days of socket 775 why older chipsets cant handle new chips, and we all knew it was BS.
I know you cant on your own tell us anything, but maybe send a memo to desktop guys , some preview of 9xx chipset functionality/difference would be nice.

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Originally Posted by RaV[666]

Well, it would be nice to know whats exactly different about 9xx chipset that is so important 8xx series cant handle in bulldozer, it would be some information without giving anything important about BD.
Same pin count, backwards compatible with current chips.Intel talked in the days of socket 775 why older chipsets cant handle new chips, and we all knew it was BS.
I know you cant on your own tell us anything, but maybe send a memo to desktop guys , some preview of 9xx chipset functionality/difference would be nice.

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So the whole now VRM spec they introduced with C2 was just for bull:banana::banana::banana::banana:ing people? :ROTF:

And I bet its a similar reason for BD, a new µarch has other power requirements, maybe needs extended voltage ranges, finer grained voltage steps needed etc.

Zambezzi is AM3+ only, Thuban compactible with AM2+/AM3 and AM3+. And for me and some others people here, yes, i accpet new socket (motherborad) for better performace Zambezzi, no problem, if need it, buy 10 motherboards AM3+ for AMD :)

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Originally Posted by soya_crack

Seriously guys, didn't Benchmarks show that there is no to minor difference between Dual/Triple Channel? (Intel 1156 vs. 1366)

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It's easier (more reliable really) to overclock an x58 with 6GB in triple channel than a P55 with 8GB in dual channel.

I want more than 4GB of ram personally and 8GB at this point is overkill for me.

What really gets me is that I know if I upgrade to AM3+ (despite only just going am3) that I'll get burned again in around a year by AM4.

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Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides

What really gets me is that I know if I upgrade to AM3+ (despite only just going am3) that I'll get burned again in around a year by AM4.

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how is that getting burned, if you buy an AM4 cpu it might be able to drop into an AM3+ board, but why would you ever expect that an AM3+ cpu can go into AM4 way before DDR4 is even out?

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Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

It's easier (more reliable really) to overclock an x58 with 6GB in triple channel than a P55 with 8GB in dual channel.

I want more than 4GB of ram personally and 8GB at this point is overkill for me.

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not really overkill, specially when you consider the nominal cost. Memory bandwidth is useful and I love having triple channel, but if anything P55 showed us that one less channel is not the problem. I applaud AMD, because flipping sockets every few years to test something that will have minute gains is what the server market is for. Besides unlike intel, they learned their lesson hard with the 939 to AM2 debacle.

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Originally Posted by Manicdan

how is that getting burned, if you buy an AM4 cpu it might be able to drop into an AM3+ board, but why would you ever expect that an AM3+ cpu can go into AM4 way before DDR4 is even out?

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indeed, people keep forgetting this is AMD, not intel we are talking about. My AM2 may finally be dead but by god its socket had one hell of a lifespan.

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Originally Posted by Manicdan

how is that getting burned, if you buy an AM4 cpu it might be able to drop into an AM3+ board, but why would you ever expect that an AM3+ cpu can go into AM4 way before DDR4 is even out?

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AM3+ probably will go into AM4.
You're missing the point. It's about the platform, not cpu compatability.

AM3+ as a platform versus the 880G I have now. The only true upgrade there is the cpu.

I for one don't mind this, if anything I welcome it. Say 3rd qt 2011 you build a machine, you can buy an AM3+ board and put a top of the line AM3 CPU that should be dirt cheap by then(overclock the heck out of it), then wait until prices for a decent BD chip falls. If an AM3+ CPU would fit into an AM4 board, that would be nice too, but I doubt it since AM4 is probably gonna support DDR4. Basically it'll allow me to build two systems for a good price. I don't know what you guys do with your old hardware but I usually end up keeping it, just because I can't resell it by the time I rebuild.

On a side note, this is old news.

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

Guys, how many times have I given this answer?

Why do you keep recycling news articles that are wrong and believe that this is somehow new information that invalidates all of the things that you have heard from AMD so far?

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well it is one of three reasons i suppose? A. AMD has not given ppl a "straight" answer regarding these issue's. B. they never got the info the first time (didn't pay attention). or C. they crave new information about BD and will talk about anything.

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

Guys, how many times have I given this answer?

Why do you keep recycling news articles that are wrong and believe that this is somehow new information that invalidates all of the things that you have heard from AMD so far?

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so is that a definitive am3 boards cannot use am3+ chips, and or am3 chips will work in am3+ boards.

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Originally Posted by zanzabar

so is that a definitive am3 boards cannot use am3+ chips, and or am3 chips will work in am3+ boards.

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ditto query. but slightly rephrasing it.

if its only the bios support, and the pins are compatible with am3 boards, will it be possible like am2+ boards to just transplant an updated agesa module and cpucodes into an am3 bios from an am3+/am3r2 one.
I ask because I did it myself for my am2 board for which the manufacturer didn't provide a bios for phenom/athlon II/phenom II support and can do it again if so.

[rant]
Most of us enthusiasts who are loyal to amd either are old school folks who stick with it cause its a more vfm platform or either have no money to buy new boards every now and then.
I know a lot of amd fans here in India (including me) who are so disappointed with this debacle. Its like 939 all over again :(
[/rant]

Zanzabar: its easy, Denebs, Thuban, Regors, Propus compactible with AM2+/AM3/AM3+ Zambezi only with AM3+ (because some necessary specific features of Zambezi support only AM3+)

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Originally Posted by FreeRadical

ditto query. but slightly rephrasing it.

if its only the bios support, and the pins are compatible with am3 boards, will it be possible like am2+ boards to just transplant an updated agesa module and cpucodes into an am3 bios from an am3+/am3r2 one.
I ask because I did it myself for my am2 board for which the manufacturer didn't provide a bios for phenom/athlon II/phenom II support and can do it again if so.

[rant]
Most of us enthusiasts who are loyal to amd either are old school folks who stick with it cause its a more vfm platform or either have no money to buy new boards every now and then.
I know a lot of amd fans here in India (including me) who are so disappointed with this debacle. Its like 939 all over again :(
[/rant]

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dont agree, im AMD fan some years (from s754) and i prefer performance than backward compactibility. Look at "blue side", every year new socket, yes, this is bad, but AM2+/AM3 is long time with us (about 3 years), so this new AM3+ with high performance Bulldozer is good choice, believe me, this will not Deneb, this will good CPU monstrum;) with 4 modules....Im thinking refresh CPU socket or compactibility every +-2 years is good move.

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Originally Posted by zanzabar

so is that a definitive am3 boards cannot use am3+ chips, and or am3 chips will work in am3+ boards.

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I know I have posted this exact text somewhere else, and I think I might have been replying to you:

AM3 boards support only AM3 processors
AM3+ boards support AM3 processors and AM3+ processors

There is no bios upgrade or other magic pixie dust that will change this.

To do bulldozer in AM3 sockets would have compromised the possible performance on the processor and I am pretty sure that none of you wanted that.

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

I know I have posted this exact text somewhere else, and I think I might have been replying to you:

AM3 boards support only AM3 processors
AM3+ boards support AM3 processors and AM3+ processors

There is no bios upgrade or other magic pixie dust that will change this.

To do bulldozer in AM3 sockets would have compromised the possible performance on the processor and I am pretty sure that none of you wanted that.

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im agree:up:

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

AM3 boards support only AM3 processors
AM3+ boards support AM3 processors and AM3+ processors

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is there a possibility for mainboard manufacturer to make AM3 boards support Bulldozer, or it's impossible to do at all?

What AMD is doing its making it easier on suppliers and manufacturers. Since AM3+ supports all the processors of AMD's desktop lineup, all they have to produce is an AM3+ motherboard/platform. This can be a distinct advantage in cost savings (I would presume) to unify production, manufacturing, even sales of a product compared to needing entirely separate or distinct CPU sockets.

BTW, I am curious to what AMD has actually saying about the number of memory channels, because they may have said "there is no triple-channel", which is much different than saying "only dual channel" as that could mean if it is not triple channel, it could be dual or quad. I did think that BD server didn't go quad in some reports, but who knows.

why manufacturing "old" AM3 boards with launching AM3+ boards next year? The best mobos for AM3 are here yet (UD7 and Cross IV Extreme)

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

I know I have posted this exact text somewhere else, and I think I might have been replying to you:

AM3 boards support only AM3 processors
AM3+ boards support AM3 processors and AM3+ processors

There is no bios upgrade or other magic pixie dust that will change this.

To do bulldozer in AM3 sockets would have compromised the possible performance on the processor and I am pretty sure that none of you wanted that.

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Then why didn't AMD make 800 series chipsets Socket AM3+ compatible?

JF- a lower end BD will still be better than Thuban.:up:

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Originally Posted by qcmadness

Then why didn't AMD make 800 series chipsets Socket AM3+ compatible?

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A. Since Bulldozer was still in development back then?

B. Their crystal ball broke?

C. They want to change socket every year like Intel?

:( <-- That'all I have to say for now.

I sure hope for some magic pixie dust though, or would try brewing some in my cauldron.
Best of luck with BD guys.

So people is mad at AMD because, for once, they are going to do what Intel has been doing for years.
It's so coherent and logical.

I'll hold my judgment on coherence and logic till after BD releases. You'll get a reply from me then señor :)

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Originally Posted by FreeRadical

I'll hold my judgment on coherence and logic till after BD releases. You'll get a reply from me then señor :)

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I tip my hat to you :)

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Originally Posted by mas

is there a possibility for mainboard manufacturer to make am3 boards support bulldozer, or it's unimpossible to do at all?

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nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

To do bulldozer in AM3 sockets would have compromised the possible performance on the processor and I am pretty sure that none of you wanted that.

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I totally agree, but. .

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Originally Posted by qcmadness

Then why didn't AMD make 800 series chipsets Socket AM3+ compatible?

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That's a question I've been asking for a while.
The 800-series, C32 and G34 all showed up at the same time but only the two latter works with BD.

AMD knew what needed to be implemented in C32 and G34 to make them BD compatible, so IMO they could just as well have launched the AM3+ socket together with the 800-series this spring, but they didn't.

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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so, are you saying nnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooo to the possibility or the unimpossibility?:rofl:

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/8...rthvaderno.jpg

pun intended ;)

Pretty much old news (but the Old News bears repeating since the last *Roadmap* from AMD was a bit misleading ...)

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/w...AMDRoadmap.jpg

And YES, it is disappointing. Reduced performance on AM3 is not as big an issue with me as having to purchase another OEM license from MS with that new motherboard on top of having to purchase the CPU itself.

So a $200-$300 expense simply for a new CPU becomes a $450-$550 expense because of the need for a new OS and motherboard (not to mention the aggravation of reinstalling your OS and Apps).

AMD shot themselves in the foot with this one. Shame. Shame. Shame.

who says boards will be 150-250$? and the only real loss is the price paid on current boards if you bought AM3 thinking it would be BD compatible, which ranges from 50-200$, with most AM3 boards being about 100$, and were out for quite some time before BD comes out letting you use your DDR3 for a while.

the platform compatibility from AMD has been INCREDIBLE for the last half decade. and you may GET MORE PERFORMANCE out of the newer boards!!!! how you wonder, well with the new power features, it can probably drop idle power for cores not being used much better than we currently get, which means theres more remaining TDP left to overclock the cores being used. so with AM3+, low threaded applications may have a few extra hundred mhz due to better power management.

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Originally Posted by Manicdan

who says boards will be 150-250$? and the only real loss is the price paid on current boards if you bought AM3 thinking it would be BD compatible, which ranges from 50-200$, with most AM3 boards being about 100$, and were out for quite some time before BD comes out letting you use your DDR3 for a while.

the platform compatibility from AMD has been INCREDIBLE for the last half decade. and you may GET MORE PERFORMANCE out of the newer boards!!!! how you wonder, well with the new power features, it can probably drop idle power for cores not being used much better than we currently get, which means theres more remaining TDP left to overclock the cores being used. so with AM3+, low threaded applications may have a few extra hundred mhz due to better power management.

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Once again ... you cannot *legally* transfer your OEM Windows OS to a new motherboard.

And based upon my experience with Adobe --- good luck with that, too.

Most other folks are good with license transfers (or, like with Vegas, allow installations across multiple rigs as long as the rigs are not operated simultaneously)

yeah you can, i did it all the time. when you run out of installs you just have to call them up and say you changed motherboards and they give you a new copy or remove your old registrations. the only cost is an extra 5 minutes of time for the phone call

I have local roadmap from April 2010 ,-), and here is AM3+
Guys, think, for totaly new architecture is not bad to be with new socket AM3+. Higher performance with this new socket is not bad news, but good news! We had compactibility form AMD long, long time, did u not remember? And some compactibility will with Thubans, example: u will not yet money for new CPU (this time u are at some Athlon II or Phenom II), so u can to buy AM3+ board and later u buy Zambezzi. To AM3+ we can now "insert" Denebs and Thubans !

will it support my athlon XP 3200+ and ddr 333 ram? if not this is a rip off, i paid over £200 punds for those, 5 years ago

:rofl::up:. I think yes, with some pin mods u can take your Barton to AM3+ too:D

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Originally Posted by AbortRetryFail?

And YES, it is disappointing. Reduced performance on AM3 is not as big an issue with me as having to purchase another OEM license from MS with that new motherboard on top of having to purchase the CPU itself.

So a $200-$300 expense simply for a new CPU becomes a $450-$550 expense because of the need for a new OS and motherboard (not to mention the aggravation of reinstalling your OS and Apps).

AMD shot themselves in the foot with this one. Shame. Shame. Shame.

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Why dont buy Retail OS in first place? You have you alone to blame. Same would go for intel upgrade "path".

ps. I have been in impression that just changing mb you dont need to buy new license.

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ps. I have been in impression that just changing mb you dont need to buy new license.

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Legally you have to.BUT, you can lie to them that your dog ate the mobo and they will transfer the license ;-)

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Originally Posted by AbortRetryFail?

And YES, it is disappointing. Reduced performance on AM3 is not as big an issue with me as having to purchase another OEM license from MS with that new motherboard on top of having to purchase the CPU itself.

So a $200-$300 expense simply for a new CPU becomes a $450-$550 expense because of the need for a new OS and motherboard (not to mention the aggravation of reinstalling your OS and Apps).

AMD shot themselves in the foot with this one. Shame. Shame. Shame.

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Nonsense. You don't have to buy a new OS license and you don't have to always re-install your OS.

AM3+ is an incredibly bad compromise, it has no future, and yet you can't keep the motherboard you bought last week.

All because of a last minute decision made by AMD, a desicion they should've done long ago.

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Originally Posted by AbortRetryFail?

Pretty much old news (but the Old News bears repeating since the last *Roadmap* from AMD was a bit misleading ...)

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/w...AMDRoadmap.jpg

And YES, it is disappointing. Reduced performance on AM3 is not as big an issue with me as having to purchase another OEM license from MS with that new motherboard on top of having to purchase the CPU itself.

So a $200-$300 expense simply for a new CPU becomes a $450-$550 expense because of the need for a new OS and motherboard (not to mention the aggravation of reinstalling your OS and Apps).

AMD shot themselves in the foot with this one. Shame. Shame. Shame.

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but you knew from the start that an oem license had those con's ... so why blame amd for something that you should have tought right from the start ...

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Originally Posted by Mats

AM3+ is an incredibly bad compromise, it has no future, and yet you can't keep the motherboard you bought last week.

All because of a last minute decision made by AMD, a desicion they should've done long ago.

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LOL angry much ....

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Originally Posted by Mats

AM3+ is an incredibly bad compromise, it has no future, and yet you can't keep the motherboard you bought last week.

All because of a last minute decision made by AMD, a desicion they should've done long ago.

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how does it have no future? when do you expect to see AM4 boards? and do you think that every AM4 cpu will not have AM3+ compatibility like AM2+/AM3?

i bought 1 DDR2 board(AM2+), and i plan to buy 1 DDR3 board(AM3+), and then im waiting for DDR4 to drop in price which will probably be right when AM4+ is coming out.

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Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n

so why blame amd for something that you should have tought right from the start ...

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He can blame AMD as much as he wants. AMD obviously knew what it takes to make a BD motherboard with the C32 and the G34 sockets, but they just didn't bother with introducing the AM3+ socket for the 800 series chipsets at the same time. :down:

"new" socket AM3+ for AMD is the way to sell more 9xx chipsets.
_________________


don't know where to post .... - Bulldozer will be significantly faster than K10 in SuperPi

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Originally Posted by Mats

He can blame AMD as much as he wants. AMD obviously knew what it takes to make a BD motherboard with the C32 and the G34 sockets, but they just didn't bother with introducing the AM3+ socket for the 800 series chipsets at the same time. :down:

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Server and desktop chips aren't the same, and the server ones came first. You don't have to like the decision, but the reasoning you are putting forth is flawed. I rarely change chip class without changing motherboards so I can't relate to the people issues here.

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All because of a last minute decision made by AMD, a desicion they should've done long ago.

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Thats not really true, its hardly "last minute" ,was announced month ago, and bulldozer is at least year away.Thats more than a year notification.
Amd most probably could make BD work on 8xx chipsets tho, probably with some efficiency and performance reduction.But obviously they have bigger problems than making it compatible.

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Originally Posted by Mats

He can blame AMD as much as he wants. AMD obviously knew what it takes to make a BD motherboard with the C32 and the G34 sockets, but they just didn't bother with introducing the AM3+ socket for the 800 series chipsets at the same time. :down:

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so please tell me how would you have done it instead if you were the big leader at amd

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Originally Posted by MAS

"new" socket AM3+ for AMD is the way to sell more 9xx chipsets.
_________________


don't know where to post .... - Bulldozer will be significantly faster than K10 in SuperPi

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lol what a nice logic ....

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Originally Posted by Manicdan

how does it have no future? when do you expect to see AM4 boards? and do you think that every AM4 cpu will not have AM3+ compatibility like AM2+/AM3?

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Given that the backwards compatibility is so limited (as in old CPU in new board, most people are looking for the opposite;)), they could've done a fresh start, with a new socket line.
Add at least a couple of hundred pins and integrate the PCIe for instance. Now I'm not saying that I need that, but it's something AMD will add in the near future, and that will require a new socket.

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Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n

so please tell me how would you have done it instead if you were the big leader at amd

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AMD could either have introduced AM3+ this year. They didn't.

Or, AMD could have made a new socket series with room for improvements. They didn't.

Instead, AMD ended up with AM3+, forcing people to buy new boards again even though AMD obviously (C32 and G34) knew what kind of specs BD needed then they launched the 800 chipsets, but there are not enough pins left for future improvements like integrated PCIe (which I still don't need :D).

That is a bad compromise.

I',m sticking w/ddr2 until quad channel ddr4 is here.:yepp:

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Originally Posted by FlanK3r

:rofl::up:. I think yes, with some pin mods u can take your Barton to AM3+ too:D

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ahh pin mods, your taking me back now to an old site i used to hang out on, for me this web page was pure genius back then,

pin mod barton/T'Bred

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Originally Posted by MrMojoZ

Server and desktop chips aren't the same, and the server ones came first.

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AFAIK, I thought the difference between a board being compatible or a non compatible with BD was power distribution (and BIOS, of course) and not necessarily the chipset, a bit like how S775 was changed in 2006.

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Originally Posted by Mats

Given that the backwards compatibility is so limited (as in old CPU in new board, most people are looking for the opposite;)), they could've done a fresh start, with a new socket line.
Add at least a couple of hundred pins and integrate the PCIe for instance. Now I'm not saying that I need that, but it's something AMD will add in the near future, and that will require a new socket.


AMD could either have introduced AM3+ this year. They didn't.

Or, AMD could have made a new socket series with room for improvements. They didn't.

Instead, AMD ended up with AM3+, forcing people to buy new boards again even though AMD obviously (C32 and G34) knew what kind of specs BD needed then they launched the 800 chipsets, but there are not enough pins left for future improvements like integrated PCIe (which I still don't need :D).

That is a bad compromise.

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allright then .. dont buy an am3+ mobo when they come out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mats

AMD could either have introduced AM3+ this year. They didn't.

Or, AMD could have made a new socket series with room for improvements. They didn't.

Instead, AMD ended up with AM3+, forcing people to buy new boards again even though AMD obviously (C32 and G34) knew what kind of specs BD needed then they launched the 800 chipsets, but there are not enough pins left for future improvements like integrated PCIe (which I still don't need :D).

That is a bad compromise.

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You don't know any of this to be true. You don't know if the desktop BD chips were finished when the 800 series chips came out. It would have been nice to keep backwards compatibility, but it really isn't a big deal. Your mad about motherboards that will have been out for over a year being outdated. I hope you never buy an Intel platform, you'll explode. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mats

AFAIK, I thought the difference between a board being compatible or a non compatible with BD was power distribution (and BIOS, of course) and not necessarily the chipset, a bit like how S775 was changed in 2006.

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im really wondering what the setback was too, why did servers workout fine and client has to get a new chipset? which then begs the question, is the server side not going to have the same features for power, simply because they dont care about cores being idle as much on servers? the TDP of a client chip is the limit for max, but can be reached in many ways based on how many cores are running. but for servers they expect it to just be running max load all the time and may not have required any special features to get that extra perf out of it.

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Originally Posted by Manicdan

im really wondering what the setback was too, why did servers workout fine and client has to get a new chipset? which then begs the question, is the server side not going to have the same features for power, simply because they dont care about cores being idle as much on servers? the TDP of a client chip is the limit for max, but can be reached in many ways based on how many cores are running. but for servers they expect it to just be running max load all the time and may not have required any special features to get that extra perf out of it.

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I think the answer is quite obvious, the server sockets are new, while AM3 is carrying some legacy. Like I said before, it's more about new power distribution and less about chipset type. I wouldn't be surprised if BD worked in a 890FX AM3+ board, but that wouldn't help us much.

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You don't know if the desktop BD chips were finished when the 800 series chips came out.

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Well the chipsets came at the same time as the new server sockets, so to me it seems like setting the same standard on all sockets at the same time would have been the right thing to do.

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I hope you never buy an Intel platform, you'll explode.

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Hey, don't get me started!:rofl::rofl: Actually, what makes me upset is the thought of all the people here at XS who bought an AM3 board this spring with the intention to upgrade to BD next year. Yeah, it's their money, but I really feel sorry for them.

Look, even AMD admitted they tried to keep the AM3 socket before changing their minds.

the servers have platforms that are designed to last for 5 years or so .. so of course they have planned it a long time ago .. but bulldozer on the desktop side wasnt done when the 800 series chipset was done ... so of course new chipset .. but they kept backward compatibility .. wich is good for us

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n

the servers have platforms that are designed to last for 5 years or so .. so of course they have planned it a long time ago .. but bulldozer on the desktop side wasnt done when the 800 series chipset was done ... so of course new chipset .. but they kept backward compatibility .. wich is good for us

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This is how I pictured it going down. I would have bought a new motherboard either way though when BD hit, just how I plan my builds.

exactly ... bd = new arch = new mobo for me .. that's why i only made a cheapo am3 build to tide me over until bulldozer arrive

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mats

Actually, what makes me upset is the thought of all the people here at XS who bought an AM3 board this spring with the intention to upgrade to BD next year. Yeah, it's their money, but I really feel sorry for them.

Look, even AMD admitted they tried to keep the AM3 socket before changing their minds.

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i hope those people will be happy with Thuban until AM4 comes out. chances are if they need a top of the line BD chip, they will be ok with buying a new motherboard. keep in mind how small of a market was hurt, so that EVERYONE can be happier with BD. how many people actually bought a 800 series AM3 board with an intention of dropping in a 400$ cpu 12 months later? less than 10,000 people?

if it really was going to hurt AMD that much, maybe they offer a discounted upgrade. show you purchases a 800 series board after the days AM3 was announced as compatible, and before it was announced as incompatible, and send them a rebate for 50$ off a new board. it might cost them in the end less than an advertisement, and get them lots of respect and media attention.

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Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n

but you knew from the start that an oem license had those con's ... so why blame amd for something that you should have tought right from the start ...

....

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I didn't publish the Roadmap 9 months ago and claim that BD Zambezi would run on an AM3 socket :) It was also (just a little) slimy the way they 'leaked' non-support of AM3 through a German web site.

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/w...ap-updated.jpg

I did my *due diligence* and transitioned multiple rigs legally to AM3/DDR3 based upon the AMD Roadmap with the specific intention of upgrading to BD Zambezi.

I'm as great an AMD supporter as anyone (and will continue to be), but if folks can't see how AMD screwed the pooch on this one they need to remove their Fanboy Glasses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AbortRetryFail?

I did my *due diligence* and transitioned multiple rigs legally to AM3/DDR3 based upon the AMD Roadmap with the specific intention of upgrading to BD Zambezi.

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Maybe don't plan builds 2 years in advance? Just a suggestion.

Oh and road maps usually change. I'm just floored you had all this laid out for a product that was so far away. :confused:

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Originally Posted by MrMojoZ

Maybe don't plan builds 2 years in advance? Just a suggestion.

Oh and road maps usually change. I'm just floored you had all this laid out for a product that was so far away. :confused:

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Q2-2010 to Q2-2011 ?

(I might be mistaken but my understanding is BD Zambezi 'taped-out* in June of this year)

Please take pity on me ... make checks payable to AbortRetryFail? :p:

I'm done! Back to lurking, sports fans ....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manicdan

how many people actually bought a 800 series AM3 board with an intention of dropping in a 400$ cpu 12 months later? less than 10,000 people?

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That's the people I care about, I don't care about the Dell buyers.:D
But what you say is only part of the situation. Yes, new CPU, new board, that's nothing wrong really.
I'm just curious how long the AM socket series will last, and when it will run out of pins...:shrug:

If the first gen AM3+ boards will last for two generations of BD I'd be more than happy!

i think AM is a great name for the platform, its the boards that do not have fusion, and pins can still be added as long as the last gens pins still fit. it just cannot take on MAJOR changes without first chopping off all its history.

the AM2+ was a damn blessing. i had a 5000+BE @ 3.2ghz, and now a 1055T @ 3.4ghz/4.1Ghz turbo. talk about a long lifespan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AbortRetryFail?

Q2-2010 to Q2-2011 ?

(I might be mistaken but my understanding is BD Zambezi 'taped-out* in June of this year)

Please take pity on me ... make checks payable to AbortRetryFail? :p:

I'm done! Back to lurking, sports fans ....

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You are referencing a 9 month old roadmap aren't you? Thats basing your purchasing decisions a long way out, I just don't think thats a good idea.

I shall ask Santa for Athlon III X6s and wish they support the AM3 board I bought
(you gotta do something with those 45nm Thubans and Zosmas right? They should work on both AM3 and AMR3+, disable the DDR2 IMC if you may! ) :/

May that bring peace to the hearts and minds of people who buy an 8 series board till AMD launches BD. Amen!