PhenomMsrTweaker: Cool and Quiet customized

Hi guys,

I've just developed a small tool to fully customize Cool & Quiet: PhenomMsrTweaker.

https://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=263030 https://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=263032 https://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=263034

Download: SourceForge
Webpage: http://phenommsrtweake.sourceforge.net/

Requirements:

• AMD K10 CPU
• Windows XP+ 32/64 bit, .NET Framework v2.0+

Some undocumented features:

• The '-minimize' switch can be used to start the GUI minimized (tray icon) in case you frequently switch between power schemes.
• In case your mainboard features an IT87xxF SuperIO controller (detectable via SpeedFan etc.), you may let the service manage up to 3 fans via PWM. You'll need to dive into the registry (regedit.exe), navigate to HKLM\Software\PhenomMsrTweaker and add string values (names: 'Fan1', 'Fan2', 'Fan3'). Each string consists in an arbitrary number of control points separated by '|'. Each control point is defined by an integer specifying the CPU temperature (in °C) + ':' + fan speed in percent (another integer). Linear interpolation is used to connect the control points.
  For example: 'Fan1' = '30:50|40:75': The first fan (most likely the CPU fan) runs at 50% speed at temperatures <= 30°C, at 62.5% at 35°C and at 75% at temperatures >= 40°C.
  If at least one such string is found and a supported IT87xx controller is detected, fan management is enabled. If a fan's string is missing, it is run at 100%.
  An optional DWORD value named 'PwmRamp' may be used to transition slowly to other speeds. Its value specifies the maximum jump of each fan speed (again in percent) from one interval to the next (500 ms).

I'll give it a try when I get home. I cannot get AOD to wotk on my AM3 setup to save my life.:p: Thanks for the post

Is there some trick to getting the powersaving state working with CnQ disabled? It doesn't ever kick into the lower profile on my system with CnQ disabled on my system.

--Matt

Actually, there is a possibility to enforce a enabled P-state (and P1 is enabled, even if Cool and Quiet is not). This is why the tool is able to apply changings to a currently active P-state: it temporarily switches to the other state, saves the modified settings for the target P-state and switches back, applying the new settings.
But is there a good reason for having Cool and Quiet disabled? Is there no such BIOS option or do you use an OS with a crappy driver? You could enforce P1 by using CrystalCPUID's MSR Editor and setting the register 0xc0010062 to 0x1 (eax, edx: 0x0). If there is a popular demand for enforcing P-states, I could add this functionality to the tool.

Cool program thanks a lot :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kink

Actually, there is a possibility to enforce a enabled P-state (and P1 is enabled, even if Cool and Quiet is not). This is why the tool is able to apply changings to a currently enabled P-state: it temporarily switches to the other state, saves the modified settings for the target P-state and switches back, applying the new settings.
But is there a good reason for having Cool and Quiet disabled? Is there no such BIOS option or do you use an OS with a crappy driver? You could enforce P1 by using CrystalCPUID's MSR Editor and setting the register 0xc0010062 to 0x1 (eax, edx: 0x0). If there is a popular demand for enforcing P-states, I could add this functionality to the tool.

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On my board, and presumably others, having CnQ enabled with a NB frequency over 2600mhz causes Vista x64 to be unable to boot. The symptom of the issue is a BSOD during the Vista loading screen. Given that issue, I'd love to be able to enable a lower power state with it disabled.

--Matt

Downloaded!
Thanks!

Alright, I understand. This is probably due to a switch to a state other than P0 while loading the OS, for which the BIOS does not allow to specify higher NB voltages. If Windows loaded the CPU driver after PhenomMsrTweaker had applied its settings, Cool and Quiet would be usable.

The feature is implemented in v1.0.2. Grab it while it's hot. :)

/edit: "the feature" = manual switching between both P-states, even if Cool and Quiet is disabled

hmm , dont really understand it but i will give it a shot

I freeze immediately at the desktop upon selecting activate on the P-state 1 area or selecting the apply button. This happens even if the multis and voltages in the powersaving box match those up top, or if I attempt to apply the settings to an inactive power profile(eg. high performance when balanced is enabled).

--Matt

Crap,

I assumed it'd work as it works on my machine. Maybe your BIOS' behaves differently from mine or Phenom II CPUs are differently initialized (P1 seems to be disabled in the registers). I'll add a check for this in the next version (but I'm going to bed right now, gotta wait). I'm afraid you're most likely unable to activate higher P-states manually. Do the few hundred MHz on the NB rationally justify wasting lots of energy (I assume your CPU idles as much as mine)?

As I think about it: there'd still be a way for manual switching. This involves applying temporary settings (like AMD OverDrive), but I've got to perform some tests on my machine first. Stay tuned. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kink

Crap,

I assumed it'd work as it works on my machine. Maybe your BIOS' behaves differently from mine or Phenom II CPUs are differently initialized (P1 seems to be disabled in the registers). I'll add a check for this in the next version (but I'm going to bed right now, gotta wait). I'm afraid you're most likely unable to activate higher P-states manually. Do the few hundred MHz on the NB rationally justify wasting lots of energy (I assume your CPU idles as much as mine)?

As I think about it: there'd still be a way for manual switching. This involves applying temporary settings (like AMD OverDrive), but I've got to perform some tests on my machine first. Stay tuned. :)

---

The few hundred mhz on the NB really do make a substantial difference. The difference between 2600mhz and 2800mhz on read speed is about 400MB/sec! Not enough to make me run that 24/7 though :-) I'm a environmentalist first and an overclocker second! I'll stay tuned!

--Matt

ok now i understand lol DUH not so hard after all, when not gaming pwersav mode , when gaming performance mode , i have my PC @2.5 on P-1

and stock @3.0 on P-0

and no pc lock ups or crashes

this is great can change it on the fly, changes in CPU-Z and Everest

Thanks for nice utilities :up:

Thanks for bringing us that cool tool :up:

Nice, I will give it a try this morning.

:up: Now all we need is away to change the NB. By the way, the tool seems to be working great over here.

Thanks for the feedback. Version 1.1 is online, including some improvements:

• Applying the settings should be more stable now (@mattkosem: please let me know if it works now).
• If the allowed P-states cannot be restricted to P0 and optionally P1, the tool does not crash anymore, but displays a message box instead.

The NB clock is not really customizable on the fly. Changing its FID (frequency ID) requires a reboot, while its DID (divisor ID) is actually customizable, but it needs to be a power of 2, so the only useful option would be to halve the NB clock in P1, but that may interfere with your RAM settings (the NB needs to operate at min. 2x memory clock). So you'd better give up dreaming about on-the-fly NB clock adjustment ;), the only option is to set it in the BIOS menu.

kink i wanted to say thanks for this tool, i prefer the simplicity compared to K10 stat, but one thing that has been mentioned before,

this would be a great even super app, if it had the ability to change the settings on auto, you know under load, crank up to 'high performance' and so on.

some of us like the idea of 'C n Q' but for various reasons cant use it, i know you said you can set it up with CPUID, or crystal CPU, but i think this ;ittle app would be great with that ability built into the code.

for newbies it would an invaluable tool, maybe even donate paypal good, if you know what i mean? ;)

I think there is a little confusion about the power schemes.

The power schemes combo box is only there to be able to switch Vista's/Win7's power schemes on the fly in case you do not use a mobile computer, where you cannot display the power options icon in the systray (at least on Vista, I haven't tried Win7 yet).
The P-state settings are NOT applied to the currently selected power scheme, they are two separate things:

• The P-state settings are saved to specific registers in each CPU core.
• The power schemes control Cool and Quiet (or more precisely, the CPU driver's behavior in switching between the available P-states), among other power-saving settings. If you disable Cool and Quiet in the BIOS menu, switching between the power schemes does not affect the CPU because P0 is the only allowed P-state.

PhenomMsrTweaker however allows you to switch manually to P1 and back to P0, overriding the CPU driver and not touching the active power scheme in any way. It would be possible to completely customize "Cool and Quiet" by disabling it in the BIOS and coding a Windows service/driver which switches manually between the P-states, based on the CPU load (possibly keeping all cores' P-state synchronized). I might do that next time I'm bored. ;)

/edit: A user on another forum got rid of the BSOD during Windows loading when CnQ is enabled. He disabled C1E in the BIOS menu and is now able to use CnQ with rather extreme settings: Phenom II X4 940, HT-reference clock @200 MHz, NB @2.8 GHz and 1.4V, these PhenomMsrTweaker settings
So if mattkosem gets his system to work too with C1E disabled, there's not much point in coding a alternative CnQ service/driver.

No go with CnQ enabled and C1E disabled. It's a bit different than with it enabled though. Instead of getting a BSOD and a reboot, it just locks up on the loading screen. I'll pull down the new version of the tool and give it a shot though!

--Matt

Edit: The tool still causes an instant lockup with C1E and CnQ disabled, but allows for the power states to be manually applied if I enable C1E and leave CnQ disabled! I'll play with it some more tonight. This looks more promising though, since I couldn't get this far with the version that was posted last night! Thanks a lot! Manual power management is at least better than none!

Edit2: I cannot find any combination of power management settings that allow windows to boot with CnQ enabled. That setting seems to be the only one that breaks it :-/

Edit3: These settings seem to be working well with a ref clock of 225mhz. There's no automatic switching, but I can at least do it by hand. If there is some sort of alternate driver that could be made to make it automatic, that would be FANTASTIC!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kink

Thanks for the feedback. Version 1.1 is online, including some improvements:

• Applying the settings should be more stable now (@mattkosem: please let me know if it works now).
• If the allowed P-states cannot be restricted to P0 and optionally P1, the tool does not crash anymore, but displays a message box instead.

The NB clock is not really customizable on the fly. Changing its FID (frequency ID) requires a reboot, while its DID (divisor ID) is actually customizable, but it needs to be a power of 2, so the only useful option would be to halve the NB clock in P1, but that may interfere with your RAM settings (the NB needs to operate at min. 2x memory clock). So you'd better give up dreaming about on-the-fly NB clock adjustment ;), the only option is to set it in the BIOS menu.

---

Thanks for the update...I know, The NB is just a pain to get set on my system, Plus I cannot get above 215 HT ref or my RAM settings reset. Just waiting on a better bois.

I have C & Q enabled on Bios, but I have never seen it working (running at o/ced 3.5ghz at all time). Just tried your program and it works like a charm. (Confirmed with CPUID).

Thanks for the cool tool.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ken168

I have C & Q enabled on Bios, but I have never seen it working (running at o/ced 3.5ghz at all time). Just tried your program and it works like a charm. (Confirmed with CPUID).

Thanks for the cool tool.

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Don't forget to set the power profile in windows to activate C&Q.:up:

Thanks Kink. Nice program. I looked at the source and was able to modify my version of the CNQ driver (which can be found here) to optionally read and load a pState configuration file before it starts running (auto CNQ with OC). I need to give it some more testing. If there's any interest at all, I'll clean it up a little and post it...

i gota sayi am loving this little tool, i got two vista instals on the go.

both have there own configs without BSOD, fantastic

@pmc650: I've coded a little service myself in the meantime, I'm finishing it right now. Your service inspired me to override the standard driver, so thanks for the idea!

I finally got a chance to take the VM server offline and give the updated CNQ substitute a test. Seemed to work for me:) The program can be found here:

http://home.comcast.net/~pmc650/site...e493ab9aaefb9a

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charged3800z24

Don't forget to set the power profile in windows to activate C&Q.:up:

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Hi Charged,

Sorry, noob question... how do you set up the power profile in windows? (I'm on Win XP Home edition).

Question to everyone, what is an effective Vcore at 1.2ghz?

Thanks in advance.

Ken

Thank you for all your hard work kink and pmc. I love the entire concept of the application and it is on my shortlist of applications to try when I make the switchover to AM3 platform sometime soon

Great program! I have two wishes for update/upgrade... ability to minimize the program to system tray and have a menu from tray icon to change the P-State to P0 and P1. And a popup text of active P-State when moving the cursor over the icon.

I like the simple layout of this program, much easier than K10Stat.

Edit: The program shows "Vcore" but the reading is CPU VID... on my mobo the overclocked setting shows default "Vcore" because my mobo isn't able to change CPU VID. I'm not sure if this issue can be adressed...? But I would like to see "CPU VID" over "Vcore" when the reading is in fact CPU VID.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ken168

Hi Charged,

Sorry, noob question... how do you set up the power profile in windows? (I'm on Win XP Home edition).

Question to everyone, what is an effective Vcore at 1.2ghz?

Thanks in advance.

Ken

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Right click on your desktop and left click properties, then click the screen saver tab, Next click on the Power button at the bottom right. You will see power scemes. Portable/Laptop will engage CnQ.

Version 1.2 is out.
It includes the service and a system tray icon. It is packaged as installer now because the service needs to be installed.

https://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=208547

Any feedback would be appreciated; thanks Meizuman for your suggestions, they have been (partly) realized.

this is exactly what i was talking about, this is fantastic my friend.

you should offer this on your website with an option for a paypal donation :up:

this is great work, and solves a lot of problems for OC'ers out there :clap:

heres my settings for what its worth, i had to reduce my my NB from 2600 to 2400, for it to be stable, but i got to say it works a treat.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k.../Image1-13.jpg

and here is some ambient temps on water (CPU and GTX260)

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...d/Image2-2.jpg

i had to up the consequitive cycles to kick in from 3 to 8 for it to stop flicking between states, but that was it.

as for vista (2 of 5 OS instals on this rig) this is great, i have my Vista Office instal (browsing/downloading/agreeing with RMA's and so on)

and then i have my Vista Crysis instal (for cryisis lol) one runs in low power, one runs full power, but both overclocksed....fantastic

Awesome this is so much better than AOD :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jaivan

Awesome this is so much better than AOD :up:

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ya HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

as HG would say

Have to admit I was a little hesitant about trying this, but after seeing all the sucsess stories I gave it a shot.

All I can say is WOW! Thanks man... :up:

Gotta go install it on my Home Theater box now... :yepp: :D

soundood,
Why didn't you set it to go down to 4x multi & 0.7750v?
There's lots of watts to be shaved there.

I'm idling at 65W.
Down a whopping 100W compared to my previous system with a Q6600 which consumed ~170W in idle. That is, one hundred watts worth savings in idle just by dumping Q6600 and going Deneb.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by largon

soundood,
Why didn't you set it to go down to 4x multi & 0.7750v?
There's lots of watts to be shaved there.

I'm idling at 65W.
Down a whopping 100W compared to my previous system with a Q6600 which consumed ~170W in idle. That is, one hundred watts worth savings in idle just by dumping Q6600 and going Deneb.

---

that low? lol

i thought i was doing my thing for the enviroment :rofl:

you know to be honest, i just didnt think it would go that low, without BSOD

i also like the idea of a 2 gig rig, its still powerfull enough for low level stuff, and not a too big a jump to 3.5 gig,

i also have a thing about fast voltage increases in a wide range, it can do more harm than good, i know this from my sound engineering days :up:

Thanks for the feedback so far.

I've just put a web page onto sourceforge: http://phenommsrtweake.sourceforge.net/

About fast voltage changes: AMD thought about this of course, so the voltage is in-/decreased in 0.0125V steps (and that is the primary reason for a P-state transition to take quite a long time).

/edit: I've just performed a SuperPI mod 1.5 XS test to compare custom C&Q and standard C&Q, each test run after a reboot:

Test: 1M
C&Q disabled: 25.77 secs
custom C&Q: 25.88 secs (default settings: 25ms intervals, 23% load threshold, 3 samples until P0, 10 until P1)
standard C&Q: 32.43 secs => 25% slower!

This is due to single-threaded applications getting re-assigned to different cores over time, all of which may need to be put in P0 state while they are processing the number-crunching thread (see the web page for more infos). Perform your own benches if you don't believe in my numbers. ;)

Tried to install 1.2 but the installer gave an error:

"There is a problem with this Windows Installer package. A program run as part of the setup did not finish as expected. Contact your support personnel or package vendor"

While I leave the installer to that stage, I can see and launch PhenomMsrTweaker.exe and it works, at least the same options as in the 1.1 but the custom Cool and Quiet gives error when clicking apply:

"The service could not be controlled:
Cannot open PhenomMsrTweaker on computer"

Edit: Downloaded twice, installed multiple times, in my own folder and to the default folder. No effect. This is x86 version.

Could this be due to non-updated .NET framework?
I do have 2.0 SP2 - 3.0 SP2 and 3.5 SP1, but is the "+" some other version? Or does it just point out that program needs 2.0 or newer?

New version out: v1.2.1 (should be more stable when applying permanent settings and using standard C&Q on a Phenom II CPU).

@Meizuman: The problem is that the service cannot be installed during setup, 2.0+ means 2.0 upwards, so no .NET problem. I have no clue as to why the service cannot be installed. You could copy the files in the installation directory during the error message to a backup folder. Then you could open an administrator console (cmd.exe with admin rights), change to the backup directory and try to execute "PhenomMsrTweakerService.exe -i". This is basically done by the installer at the end (where it fails on your system). Make sure you have the required rights. If it succeeds, you won't see any output, otherwise an error message is displayed. Are you using WinXP or Vista+?

/edit: Make sure to use the appropriate release for your system - x86 for 32 bit OS and x64 for x64 OS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kink

New version out: v1.2.1 (should be more stable when applying permanent settings and using standard C&Q on a Phenom II CPU).

@Meizuman: The problem is that the service cannot be installed during setup, 2.0+ means 2.0 upwards, so no .NET problem. I have no clue as to why the service cannot be installed. You could copy the files in the installation directory during the error message to a backup folder. Then you could open an administrator console (cmd.exe with admin rights), change to the backup directory and try to execute "PhenomMsrTweakerService.exe -i". This is basically done by the installer at the end (where it fails on your system). Make sure you have the required rights. If it succeeds, you won't see any output, otherwise an error message is displayed. Are you using WinXP or Vista+?

/edit: Make sure to use the appropriate release for your system - x86 for 32 bit OS and x64 for x64 OS.

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Freaking awesome Kink! It's excellent! I'm just using the default sampling settings, and it works PERFECTLY! The multi drops down to 4x with .9v when idle and hops right up when needed! I'm running a 250mhz base clock, so I need a bit more at idle to keep it going, but it's working great!

--Matt

hehehe glad to know that you finally got your C&Q up & running, mattkosem!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattkosem

Freaking awesome Kink! It's excellent! I'm just using the default sampling settings, and it works PERFECTLY! The multi drops down to 4x with .9v when idle and hops right up when needed! I'm running a 250mhz base clock, so I need a bit more at idle to keep it going, but it's working great!

--Matt

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First one to download new version. Yummy. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kink

New version out: v1.2.1 (should be more stable when applying permanent settings and using standard C&Q on a Phenom II CPU).

@Meizuman: The problem is that the service cannot be installed during setup, 2.0+ means 2.0 upwards, so no .NET problem. I have no clue as to why the service cannot be installed. You could copy the files in the installation directory during the error message to a backup folder. Then you could open an administrator console (cmd.exe with admin rights), change to the backup directory and try to execute "PhenomMsrTweakerService.exe -i". This is basically done by the installer at the end (where it fails on your system). Make sure you have the required rights. If it succeeds, you won't see any output, otherwise an error message is displayed. Are you using WinXP or Vista+?

/edit: Make sure to use the appropriate release for your system - x86 for 32 bit OS and x64 for x64 OS.

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Thank you really much for your advice! I am running XP pro (32bit). I will try the new version. If it does the same thing, I will do it the way you described, thanks again.

np. If it doesn't work, you might try to upgrade your C++ Runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

Will keep that in mind too. :) Thanks

kink: If I'm missing something I apologize, I've only been using MsrTweaker for a few days...

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE your software and I appreciate all your work! :up:

Like alot of folks on here though, I am an overclocker and I'm not sure how to shut down the services your program offers.

I may be the only one interested, but I think it would be nice to have an option in the "Services Menu" to shut down MsrTweaker completely, so you could temporarily OC without any potential interference.

Don't get me wrong, I'd still want it to run on reboot, but it would be nice to be able to shut it down when you want to have some OC adventures.. :p:

Just a suggestion.. ;)

So will this only work on XP? It doesn't work with Windows 7 apparently.

Daveburt714,
PhenomMsrTweakerService.exe is in "stopped" state unless you manually enable the service via the "Service..." -button in the app and tick either of the options there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meizuman

Tried to install 1.2 but the installer gave an error:

"There is a problem with this Windows Installer package. A program run as part of the setup did not finish as expected. Contact your support personnel or package vendor"

While I leave the installer to that stage, I can see and launch PhenomMsrTweaker.exe and it works, at least the same options as in the 1.1 but the custom Cool and Quiet gives error when clicking apply:

"The service could not be controlled:
Cannot open PhenomMsrTweaker on computer"

Edit: Downloaded twice, installed multiple times, in my own folder and to the default folder. No effect. This is x86 version.

Could this be due to non-updated .NET framework?
I do have 2.0 SP2 - 3.0 SP2 and 3.5 SP1, but is the "+" some other version? Or does it just point out that program needs 2.0 or newer?

---

I have the same issue as the above. I have all the .NET framework, except version 3.5

Quote:

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Originally Posted by richierich

So will this only work on XP? It doesn't work with Windows 7 apparently.

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Works fine here, Windows 7 x64 beta.

Edit: Great app btw!

A user on another forum got rid of the service problem by installing the Visual C++ Runtime 2008: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en (make sure to choose x86 or x64 based on your OS)

@Jam: Thanks for the confirmation, I thought it'd work because there is not that much of a change from Vista to Win7 (on the API side at least).

@largon: Thanks for clearing that up. Please note that if you click the Apply button inside the service dialog, the service is stopped (if it is running) and optionally restarted (if any checkbox is checked), so these changes are applied immediately, no need for a reboot. Additionally, you can always enter the services control panel and disable the PhenomMsrTweaker service or set it to start manually.

Whenever I try to run the program it crashes immediately due to an unknown issue on my Windows 7.

This prog works will with the Vista Cool and Quiet, but when I switch off Cool and Quiet in the Bios and use the one built into this program it locks up my PC. But I like this program becasue I can still use it with the Vista Cool and Quiet and have my PC running at 0.82 volts x5 1000MHz and at 1.21 volts x 13.5 2700MHz (NB and HT at 2200MHz). at these votages the PC runs very cool and still encodes all my 720p mkv files to HD-WMV files fast and with no losse of picture qty. The only time I crank up the voltage (1.35 volts x 15.5 3100MHz) now is when I encode 1080p mkv to HD-WMV. Thanks for the program and hard work.

I'm sorry for the people having issues with the tool, but debugging is not possible because I can only test it on my machine (Phenom X4 9950, ASUS M3A78-T with latest BIOS, Vista x64 SP1), where it works like a charm for about two weeks now.

@nuts24: Have you already tried to flip the C1E setting in your BIOS?

New version out: v1.2.2

This version now works on WinXP as well (WinXP was the reason for the service install error - I accidentally used some WinAPI functions which are supported since Vista only).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kink

New version out: v1.2.2

This version now works on WinXP as well (WinXP was the reason for the service install error - I accidentally used some WinAPI functions which are supported since Vista only).

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@kink

Thank you so much, v1.2.2 does fixed my installation issue.

Regards,

Ken

I will see if I can find the C1E setting in my bios, I will download V1.2.2 and give the cool n quite part another go.

installed 1.2.2, can not find a C1E setting in my bios, so cool n quite (in this program) is still not working on my system. So still suck with using cool n quite with in Vista. It does not matter as I am more than happy that this program can control the low speed and voltage and the high speed and voltage. :)

if you update your SB drivers on the 790FX chipset you may have uninstall and re-install this program to get it working again.

Really? That doesn't make any sense to me because the tool only modifies the contents of some CPU registers and does not rely on external AMD software of any kind.

I updated my ATI SB divers on my motherboard and when I rebooted PhenomMsrTweaker program came up with an error when I tried to open it, Sorry I forgot to take down the error message, but it was not a problem because all I needed to do to get it working again, was unistall and then reinstall the PhenomMsrTweaker program.

I just wanted to say thank you for this awesome utility m8
BTW why isn't this a sticky?

< BUMP >

Seems like there are quite a few folks on the forum new to Phenom recently. This is such an awesome piece of freeware, I felt it worthy of being back on the top page... ;)

I prefer it to CnQ reguardless of Windows OS. :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daveburt714

< BUMP >

Seems like there are quite a few folks on the forum new to Phenom recently. This is such an awesome piece of freeware, I felt it worthy of being back on the top page... ;)

I prefer it to CnQ reguardless of Windows OS. :up:

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I second that. Works nice. Great for quick tweaking also.:up:

im a +1 for this as a sticky to be honest, shall one of us PM staff for it?

Yeah this program is definitely one of the best tweaker utils in recent memory. :)

I've been wondering: Is it possible to add the ability to change NB multi?

what can I say....you are a genious...thank you very much...great tool :shocked:

I just installed the program ...and according to cpu-z the settings are applied
correctly (3GHz for performance and 1GHz for powersaving), however, the cpu
utilization gadget shows the default speed (2.8GHz) all the time and also the
core temperatures are in the 2.8GHz area.

BIOS cool'n'quiet is disabled and the balanced power scheme is running.

i just changed my bios, activate P-states under bios, and now, my board do what this program do.....nice......

Thanks guys.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by swaaye

I've been wondering: Is it possible to add the ability to change NB multi?

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Unfortunately, it isn't. A change is only applied after a reset of the CPU, i.e. impossible while the operating system is running, that's why not even OverDrive allows you to change it on-the-fly.

@Bladesinger: Do not expect too much from a fancy gadget, instead rely on CPU-Z and OverDrive. The temps do not necessarily need to be lower in the power-saving state, because a PWM-enabled fan rotates at lower speed (or even not at all). Just make sure the reported voltage is the desired one.

CPU-Z reports the correct speeds.

As for the cpu utilization gadget, it shows correct speeds with C'n'Q
enabled, why would it screw up readings with PhenomMsrTweaker?

kink,

Could you add support for Regor core?

@Bladesinger: I'm quite good at reading ;), so I already knew that the multis are applied, I was just a little worried about the core voltage if the temperature did not decrease (some mainboards do not allow to specify CPU VID and NB VID separately...). The gadget is a built-in Windows component, therefore it's gonna be notified by the CPU driver controlling standard C&Q. Seems like MS did not think about tools controlling the CPU directly - it's just not cleanly programmed, it doesn't poll the actual hardware state. Other tools like Everest also have (or at least used to have) problems in this regard due to not reading the CPU registers correctly.

@high5: It's always been supported - the tool supports all K10 CPUs.

kink, I'm curious, is there a possibility you could add more (one or two more) P-states?

I've met that request on another site too, especially from HTPC users. I sadly did not think about that when writing the app, I just wanted to keep things simple by limiting the number of parameters. Now I've already moved on to other projects, so the tweaker is not under development anymore. There's already a mod offering an intermediate P-state, but only in the GUI and not in the service if I remember correctly (haven't tried it myself). Links may be found here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kink

Now I've already moved on to other projects, so the tweaker is not under development anymore.

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Does your schedule allow you to return to the Tweaker at some point in the future?

It does actually, but I'm not keen on continuing working on it since it already satisfies my needs completely. It's open source, everyone's invited to contribute.

bump, this needs to be sticky'd really :)

This program is exactly what I've been looking for. My Phenom is stable when overclocked to 2.7 GHz at 1.3V (235 MHz base clock), but in power saving mode it doesn't get enough juice (1.05V when it would probably need something like 1.25V..just a guess).

However the program doesn't work quite as expected:

1. The P1 voltage is off by about 0.01V. For example if I set it to 1.135V in the tweaker, CPU-Z indicates 1.1232. Which one is right?

2. The P0 voltage is off by nearly a full 0.1V. If I set it to 1.2V, CPU-Z indicates 1.296V. I also think the actual voltage *is* 1.296V, not 1.20V. At 2.7 GHz my system would probably crash at the desktop with only 1.20V going through the CPU...
I have increased the voltage by exactly 0.1V in the BIOS, from 1.2V to 1.3V, so maybe it's normal that the actual voltage is always 0.1V higher than what I've selected in the tweaker?

-How do I know what the Northbridge voltage actually is? I don't want to accidentally overvolt it by 0.1V, e.g. maybe running it at 1.4V instead of 1.3V... In BIOS, it's set to 1.2875V up by exactly 0.1V. Does this mean I should always lower the NB voltage by 0.1V in the tweaker, just as I do with the core voltage?

Specs:
Asus M3A32-MVP Deluxe, Phenom X4 9650 at 235x11.5, 4GB Corsair XMS2, Radeon HD 4850, Win7 RC

Also, what is the default behavior of the NB clock and voltage with Cool n Quiet enabled? Is it lowered along with the CPU core clock?

Shame I can't use this program...

When using k10stat or AOD to modify voltage it jumps all over the place from 1.1v - 1.6v so until a BIOS fix comes there is really no way for me to use it even thou I really want to :(

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1. The P1 voltage is off by about 0.01V. For example if I set it to 1.135V in the tweaker, CPU-Z indicates 1.1232. Which one is right?

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CPU-Z. The setting in the tweaker is just the voltage requested by the CPU, the actually delivered one depends upon the board.

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I have increased the voltage by exactly 0.1V in the BIOS, from 1.2V to 1.3V, so maybe it's normal that the actual voltage is always 0.1V higher than what I've selected in the tweaker?

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This depends completely upon the particular BIOS implementation of the board, e.g. my mainboard of the same brand adjusts the P0 settings when altering the default voltages. In your case, it seems the board adds those +0.1V set in the BIOS to whatever voltage you select for P0 (but interestingly not for the P1 voltage). This allows for higher overvolting because the VID is limited to 1.55V.

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How do I know what the Northbridge voltage actually is?

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Use AMD OverDrive to get a look at all clocks and voltages. If you want the default NB voltage, just deactivate the service temporarily, reboot the machine, start the tweaker and read the default settings configured by your BIOS. If the NB VID equals the original 1.1875V, you know that the board adds those 0.1V to the NB voltage too and you should use that setting (since you do not want to alter the voltage anyway). Beware that by checking the default settings BEFORE making any adjustments, you would have spotted that the VIDs are 0.1V lower than the actual voltages - if you want to increase a voltage by 0.1V, just increase the default setting by 0.1V and you should be fine.

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Also, what is the default behavior of the NB clock and voltage with Cool n Quiet enabled? Is it lowered along with the CPU core clock?

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Nope, the NB always runs at full speed. The voltage is usually modified, e.g. my M3A78-T adds (yes, adds) 0.075V in P1 (1.225V for P0, 1.3V for P1). I think it should be roughly the same for every P-state since the NB clock is constant.

/edit: Make sure the NB voltage is not by 0.1V lower in P1 (remember, the Vcore's +0.1V are only applied for P0, not for P1 - so that may apply to the NB voltage too), i.e. you may need to set P0's NB VID to 1.1875V to obtain the desired 1.2875V (0.1V added by BIOS), but P1's NB VID to 1.2875V if the BIOS doesn't add the 0.1V in P1. That may be a reason for the crash when switching to P1. My X4 9950 needs 0.95V for 1.5 GHz (and it's not a particularly good overclocker), so I guess your 1.05V ought to suffice unless you use high core clocks.

A utility to completely customize the Cool & Quiet feature of AMD K10 (Phenom etc.) processors. It may be used to overclock and/or undervolt the CPU. Its primary aim is to allow on-demand use of the powersaving Cool & Quiet feature even when running the CPU above its original speed.

PhenomMsrTweaker allows to fully customize two CPU performance states: multiplicator (per core), Vcore (CPU VID) and integrated Northbridge voltage (NB VID) of P-states 0 (performance) and 1 (powersaving).

Additionally, it provides a customizable replacement for the standard implementation of Cool & Quiet in the Windows driver and allows to control standard or custom Cool & Quiet via on-the-fly power scheme switching.
http://phenommsrtweake.sourceforge.net/Screenshot1.png

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If you want the default NB voltage, just deactivate the service temporarily, reboot the machine, start the tweaker and read the default settings configured by your BIOS.

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Thanks, this cleared up a few things, or made me more confused, depending on how you view it :)

I experimented with different voltages and read the results in CPU-Z and the tweaker...

Regarding P0 core voltages, at about 1.25V and lower selected in BIOS, no voltage is added to the requested voltage. The tweaker displays the voltage I selected in BIOS. With higher voltages than 1.25 selected in BIOS, it simply begins adding 0.1V. 1.3V in BIOS = 1.2V in the tweaker, but 1.325V in BIOS = 1.225V in the tweaker. So it always adds 0.1V, probably like you say to boost the maximum voltage you can select. P1 core voltage also goes up from 1.05V to 1.15V, probably as a side effect (but it might help when oc'ing with CnQ enabled).

The same seems to be true for the NB VID in P0 mode: At 1.25V and below, the tweaker simply displays whatever I selected in BIOS. At higher settings, it displays values that are 0.1V lower.

However for P1 mode, the tweaker always displays 1.25V NB VID, no matter what BIOS is set to... :rofl:

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That may be a reason for the crash when switching to P1. My X4 9950 needs 0.95V for 1.5 GHz (and it's not a particularly good overclocker), so I guess your 1.05V ought to suffice unless you use high core clocks.

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You're probably right that my VCore, especially at 1.15V should have been enough for stable operation at 1350 MHz. Something about the NB VID is probably what causes my stability problems with CnQ enabled. I guess simply increasing the NB VID for P1 in the tweaker to 1.2875V without touching anything else might be enough to cure that... When overclocking without CnQ, I didn't manage to get my system stable enough to run Prime95 indefinitely until I boosted the NB voltage to about 1.2875V. Since the default NB clock for my 9650 is only 1.8 GHz, an overclock to 2115 MHz isn't insignificant.

Oh well, this behaviour is not quite what I expected :D

Did you manage to stabilize your overclock in P1? And may I ask why you chose to stop at 235 MHz reference clock? Just out of curiosity, as I'm running 262 MHz to let my RAM operate at nearly DDR2-1066 (my Corsair modules are incompatible with the board in 1066 mode, but work fine in overclocked 800 mode).

Does this work in Windows 7 x86? I am able to activate different clocks with it, but when I enabled custom cool and quiet, it won't ever switch clocks.

I'm 99.99% sure it does, as I haven't had any problems whatsoever on Win7 RC x64 since a couple of months now. Just make sure to use appropriate settings...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dopamin3

Does this work in Windows 7 x86? I am able to activate different clocks with it, but when I enabled custom cool and quiet, it won't ever switch clocks.

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I am using it on both win 7 64 and 32. So far the answer is yes.

I read that AMD Cool n' Quiet has an issue in that it doesn't give you the maximum performance when you need it, i.e., when the load is high. For that reason it has been called "Cool n' Slow". So this article is recommending to use RMClock instead. Are there any such "slow down" issues with PhenomMsrTweaker? And how does PhenomMsrTweaker compare with RMClock?

Thanks! :)

We need Istanbul support for Particle please :).

@mtl777: The article is based on the K8 architecture, there have been quite some improvements in K10. If you had cared to check PhenomMsrTweaker's webpage (link's in the first post), you would have come across my statement that the performance of single-threaded applications may be vastly improved (by more than 20% on my X4 9950) when using its custom C&Q instead of the standard one.
Regarding RMClock, I haven't heard of it being used for K10 CPUs, so there's probably no support for the newer architecture. The article's author also mentions that it does not use a service, so you can only use it if someone's logged into the PC (i.e. not very useful for server machines) - PhenomMsrTweaker features such a service, which also gets rid of the annoying UAC prompt right after booting when an autostart program requires elevated privileges.

@Mechromancer: I don't know what you mean by "Particle", but anyway: Istanbul should be supported, as well as CPUs with even more cores (I think I used a limit of 64 cores) - it's just not implemented in the GUI, but usable in the service. You need to dive into the registry, surf to HKLM\Software\PhenomMsrTweaker and adjust the P0 and P1 strings accordingly - just add the missing multipliers, e.g. change something like "10|10|10|10|1.3|1.2" to "10|10|10|10|10|10|1.3|1.2" (the first values are the core multipliers, the second last one is the core VID and the last one the NB VID). Restart the service or reboot, and the settings should have been applied.

is new version PhenomsTweaker, il test it today :)

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Originally Posted by kink

@Mechromancer: I don't know what you mean by "Particle", but anyway: Istanbul should be supported, as well as CPUs with even more cores

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By "Particle" he means the guy on these forums named Particle. He recently built a dual Istanbul computer and needs to overclock it past 2.5GHz. I guess the program crashes instantly at startup for some reason.
Thread here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...226283&page=11

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kink

@mtl777: The article is based on the K8 architecture, there have been quite some improvements in K10. If you had cared to check PhenomMsrTweaker's webpage (link's in the first post), you would have come across my statement that the performance of single-threaded applications may be vastly improved (by more than 20% on my X4 9950) when using its custom C&Q instead of the standard one.
Regarding RMClock, I haven't heard of it being used for K10 CPUs, so there's probably no support for the newer architecture. The article's author also mentions that it does not use a service, so you can only use it if someone's logged into the PC (i.e. not very useful for server machines) - PhenomMsrTweaker features such a service, which also gets rid of the annoying UAC prompt right after booting when an autostart program requires elevated privileges.

@Mechromancer: I don't know what you mean by "Particle", but anyway: Istanbul should be supported, as well as CPUs with even more cores (I think I used a limit of 64 cores) - it's just not implemented in the GUI, but usable in the service. You need to dive into the registry, surf to HKLM\Software\PhenomMsrTweaker and adjust the P0 and P1 strings accordingly - just add the missing multipliers, e.g. change something like "10|10|10|10|1.3|1.2" to "10|10|10|10|10|10|1.3|1.2" (the first values are the core multipliers, the second last one is the core VID and the last one the NB VID). Restart the service or reboot, and the settings should have been applied.

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AWESOME! I just told Particle about it in his Istanbul thread. Check out his thread because I'm sure he could use your help. Thank you very much for this explanation.

Oh, hey there kink! I'm wondering what the expected behavior is in regards to max VID. Does your program enable a person to go beyond the max VID? Using other apps I can go anywhere between min and max VID, but I'm unable to go above.

As for the program, it seems to crash on start. I'll try again when I get home from work.

me love you kink :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kink

@mtl777: The article is based on the K8 architecture, there have been quite some improvements in K10. If you had cared to check PhenomMsrTweaker's webpage (link's in the first post), you would have come across my statement that the performance of single-threaded applications may be vastly improved (by more than 20% on my X4 9950) when using its custom C&Q instead of the standard one.
Regarding RMClock, I haven't heard of it being used for K10 CPUs, so there's probably no support for the newer architecture. The article's author also mentions that it does not use a service, so you can only use it if someone's logged into the PC (i.e. not very useful for server machines) - PhenomMsrTweaker features such a service, which also gets rid of the annoying UAC prompt right after booting when an autostart program requires elevated privileges.

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Thank you so much for explaining how it works! :up: I didn't have time yet to read the webpage, just wanted to have a bird's eye view. But now you've got me very interested!

My machine is for a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) which is used for music recording and production. My CPU is a Phenom II 720 BE, and the apps that I use are mostly multi-threaded. I hear that people are having issues with Cool n' Quiet and similar throttling software causing latency spikes and stuttering audio in their DAW's. There is a program called DPC Latency Checker which allows you to find out if you have any such problems. I'm interested in PhenomMsrTweaker as it seems better and easier to use than RMClock. But I would like to know beforehand, will I not run into these issues with PhenomMsrTweaker?

@mtl777: I'm quite sure that you're gonna run into these latency issues when using any kind of Cool'n Quiet. E.g. if all cores enter a power-saving state, the single core voltage is reduced in small steps before reducing the core clock frequencies. So I think it's very likely that the cores are blocked for a very short time period during this transition, hence increasing the latency. PhenomMsrTweaker's custom C&Q keeps all cores synchronized and allows you to adjust the responsiveness to load changes. I've just run this latency checker for some minutes while surfing and starting 2 very short Prime95 runs (one with 2 threads, then one with 4). My absolute maximum latency has been 162 microseconds, so it should actually be fine (surprisingly). I'm using a slightly overclocked X4 9950 and PhenomMsrTweaker's custom C&Q with default settings on Win7 RC x64. But please perform your own tests, it's not gonna destroy your CPU. ;) Oh and btw, you can always disable C&Q temporarily by switching the active power scheme to 'High performance'.

@Particle: I've just browsed very quickly through your thread. I'm sorry but I can't help you, since the tweaker only adjusts the CPU cores' MSRs - and whenever a VID change is requested, it is checked for validity (i.e. in [MinVid, MaxVid]). Since these are read-only MSR fields, there is no way to fool the CPU by using higher VIDs (unless the fields aren't really read-only as the docs suggest...). I guess you need to either wait for BIOS support (although you'll probably wait forever), access the voltage regulator manually if somehow possible (e.g. by accessing the PCI configuration space) or get soldering. ;)