9600GT SLI beats 3870X2 in a couple games (inq, expreview)

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02-26-2008, 01:35 AM
Sr7

9600GT SLI beats 3870X2 in a couple games (inq, expreview)

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...bble-25feb2008

Thought this was funny...

http://en.expreview.com/?p=273&page=16

They only tested 2 actual games and 3dmark. X2 still won 3dmark as expected, but in the games it lost by quite a margin.
02-26-2008, 01:46 AM
0maro

Awesome results of 9600SLI.It's really good choice for most of us(mid-range) pc's users :)
Waiting for nVidia's triple SLI boost :rolleyes:
02-26-2008, 01:49 AM
K404

roughly the same price for the GPUs, but means buying an SLI mobo... I guess no situation is perfect!
02-26-2008, 01:50 AM
awdrifter

That's very good results, I can't wait to see what the 9800GX2 can do.
02-26-2008, 01:53 AM
emlyn_dewar

Yeah, I'd rather not be tied to an Nvidia chipset. I'd also like to see a site compare more than 2 games for the 9600SLI/3870 X2 test... Not really a good test tbh.
02-26-2008, 01:55 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by K404

roughly the same price for the GPUs, but means buying an SLI mobo... I guess no situation is perfect!

Right now on newegg, 2 9600GT's are $360.

A 3870x2 is minimum $419. That's $60 cheaper.

Also, the other point is that originally, with single GPU's, ATI was competing with NVIDIA's high end (XT vs. GTX).. high end vs. high end.

Then they were competing with their middle-high end (2900XT vs. 8800GTS). Now they're competing with their mid-range (3870 vs. 9600GT).

Anyone see a pattern?
02-26-2008, 01:57 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by emlyn_dewar

Yeah, I'd rather not be tied to an Nvidia chipset. I'd also like to see a site compare more than 2 games for the 9600SLI/3870 X2 test... Not really a good test tbh.

True, but its interesting considering those (Bioshock and CoD4) are two of the best multi-gpu scaling apps for AMD.
02-26-2008, 01:58 AM
zanzabar

dont take that x2 v sli to seriously the knutered the x2 with a p5nt, its not like expreview to do that intentionally but with an x38 or 48 their 3dmark 06 is in the 17k range and not the 15k
02-26-2008, 02:04 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanzabar

dont take that x2 v sli to seriously the knutered the x2 with a p5nt, its not like expreview to do that intentionally but with an x38 or 48 their 3dmark 06 is in the 17k range and not the 15k

That makes no sense though.. anything that slows down the x2 is gonna slow down the 9600gt's too...
02-26-2008, 02:05 AM
Eastcoasthandle

They used a P5NT-Deluxe motherboard specifically designed to run SLI. They used a 780i chipset to benchmark a X2...come on. Ok to even things up only benchmark the GX2 with a X38 and use the same board to compare it to 2 X2. It makes as much sense with this test bed.

#1 The 3dmark score of the X2 is too low which suggests that COD4 and Bioshock results are lower then expected.
#2 Although they used Cat 8.2 it's not the CFX drivers that are supposed to be design for the X2.
02-26-2008, 02:20 AM
zanzabar

ur #2 isnt really correct they used 1 card so it dosnt matter if its crossfire x or not they did 2gpu v 2gpu not 2card v 2card

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

That makes no sense though.. anything that slows down the x2 is gonna slow down the 9600gt's too...

not exactly, the 9600 probly only uses 8x pci-e1 bandwidth (per card) while the x2 uses 16x pci-e2 and can max out the slot so its much more dependent on the buss and having the bus with more lat and less bandwidth than what u would use with it normally will lower its scores by a good chunk, and the 780i has way more latency than teh x38 since it dosnt have pci-e2 on teh NB and since NV limits cards to 8x for non SLI cert (cant be proven per say but a bandwidth test would show it and its been done since the nf4)
02-26-2008, 02:33 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanzabar

ur #2 isnt really correct they used 1 card so it dosnt matter if its crossfire x or not they did 2gpu v 2gpu not 2card v 2card

not exactly, the 9600 probly only uses 8x pci-e1 bandwidth (per card) while the x2 uses 16x pci-e2 and can max out the slot so its much more dependent on the buss and having the bus with more lat and less bandwidth than what u would use with it normally will lower its scores by a good chunk, and the 780i has way more latency than teh x38 since it dosnt have pci-e2 on teh NB and since NV limits cards to 8x for non SLI cert (cant be proven per say but a bandwidth test would show it and its been done since the nf4)

That's really not true though.. again, the same logic you use can be used against that argument:

If each 9600GT only needs 8x, then each 3870 GPU on the x2 only needs 8x. Therefore 16x is plenty. I thought there were rumors about PCIE2 benefiting the x2 which were proven to be false around launchtime... if this is the case, again, 16x is plenty.

Also, do you really believe the x2 runs at 8x just because it's on a 780i and you assume NVIDIA must be out to cheat?
02-26-2008, 02:37 AM
jimmyz

The 3870 x2 is a pci-e 1.0 card not 2.0, the bridge chip is 1.0 no way to make it 2.0 without a 2.0 bridge. even on my x-38 it shows as a 1.0.
02-26-2008, 02:43 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyz

The 3870 x2 is a pci-e 1.0 card not 2.0, the bridge chip is 1.0 no way to make it 2.0 without a 2.0 bridge. even on my x-38 it shows as a 1.0.

Thank you for reminding me.. I knew there was some reason those rumors were proven false, but I couldn't remember what it was. Yes, it's PCIE1.1
02-26-2008, 02:45 AM
K404

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

Right now on newegg, 2 9600GT's are $360.

A 3870x2 is minimum $419. That's $60 cheaper.

Also, the other point is that originally, with single GPU's, ATI was competing with NVIDIA's high end (XT vs. GTX).. high end vs. high end.

Then they were competing with their middle-high end (2900XT vs. 8800GTS). Now they're competing with their mid-range (3870 vs. 9600GT).

Anyone see a pattern?

Well in the UK the 3870X2 is £235 and the 9600GT is £116

What pattern are you referring to? It looks like your stating that ATI are competing with nV on all levels, even if they arent winning on all fronts. Have I missed your point? :confused:

:)
02-26-2008, 02:48 AM
Eastcoasthandle

Not sure why some have to argue, the 3dmark scores on the X2 are lower then normal. This alone lets anyone know that something is wrong with the results of the X2 on both COD4 and Bioshock. Besides, they used a SLI motherboard.
02-26-2008, 02:48 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by K404

Well in the UK the 3870X2 is £235 and the 9600GT is £116

What pattern are you referring to? It looks like your stating that ATI are competing with nV on all levels, even if they arent winning on all fronts. Have I missed your point? :confused:

:)

I'm saying that with each generation, their "high end" single GPU solution (the best their engineering can offer) is pit against a lower and lower SKU that NVIDIA has. First they fought at the high end. They couldn't compete more recently, so they fought the mid-high end. Now they're fighting the mid-range.
02-26-2008, 02:50 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

Not sure why some have to argue, the 3dmark scores on the X2 are lower then normal. This alone lets anyone know that something is wrong with the results of the X2 on both COD4 and Bioshock. Besides, they used a SLI motherboard.

So whatever is *wrong* is only affecting ATI?

Logic Fail! :down:

What's wrong with using an SLI motherboard? Does the chipset have an "Auto-slowdown-ATI" feature in the BIOS?
02-26-2008, 02:51 AM
emlyn_dewar

I would have thought the severly lacklustre variety of games would also have raised questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

What's wrong with using an SLI motherboard? Does the chipset have an "Auto-slowdown-ATI" feature in the BIOS?

*Dons foil hat*
02-26-2008, 02:51 AM
ATI-RaWpOwEr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

That makes no sense though.. anything that slows down the x2 is gonna slow down the 9600gt's too...

dude the x2 on x38 which has an intel chipset performs better than the p5nt which has an nvidia chipset its the same for the 9600gt only the other way around:D
02-26-2008, 02:53 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATI-RaWpOwEr

dude the x2 on x38 which has an intel chipset performs better than the p5nt which has an nvidia chipset its the same for the 9600gt only the other way around:D

So you're saying that changing *only* chipsets gets you an extra 2-3k in 3dmark06 on ATI?

Hmm.. that's news to me.

If this were a common problem, you wouldn't see sites benching on NVIDIA chipsets...
02-26-2008, 02:54 AM
K404

I dont think its fair to say the 3870X2 is fighting nVidias mid-range, not single card to single card anyway.

If we try to ignore the fact it took ATI a LONG time to compete, with the X2 there is NO REAL reason to buy an 8800GTX or Ultra for gaming- the X2 wins at the same price (GTX,) or lower (ultra.) Most gamers will consider performance for the money spent as well.

Think this is heading OT though :(
02-26-2008, 02:54 AM
AbelJemka

The fact the X2 score are too low is questionning the veracity of this test.
Moreover 2 benchmarks prove what? I can do the same, benchmark Oblivion and HL2 and say the X2 is better than 9600GT SLI...
02-26-2008, 02:55 AM
Eastcoasthandle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

So whatever is *wrong* is only affecting ATI?

Logic Fail! :down:

What's wrong with using an SLI motherboard? Does the chipset have an "Auto-slowdown-ATI" feature in the BIOS?

1. You don't use a SLI board to bench a ati card, common sense tells you that.
2. As you can see, the results are much lower then what others have reported using X38 and other motherboards
3. There are only 2 games benchmark using an X2 vs 9600 SLI. They didn't show any results using QW:ET, HL2: EP2, UT3, Crysis, Call of Juareez, WiC and Lost Planet which was also benchmarked.
You really aren't making much of a point here and looking silly arguing it. Specially when 3870 CF can beat a X2 in a few games.
02-26-2008, 02:57 AM
ATI-RaWpOwEr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

So whatever is *wrong* is only affecting ATI?

Logic Fail! :down:

What's wrong with using an SLI motherboard? Does the chipset have an "Auto-slowdown-ATI" feature in the BIOS?

the ati cards are more efficient on intel chipsets than nvidia ones thats just how things are:up:
02-26-2008, 02:58 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbelJemka

The fact the X2 score are too low is questionning the veracity of this test.
Moreover 2 benchmarks prove what? I can do the same, benchmark Oblivion and HL2 and say the X2 is better than 9600GT SLI...

I already addressed this... I said I realize it's only 2 games, but its 2 of the best scaling games for ATI. It's not Lost Planet. It's Bioshock and COD4, the game they picked to preview their x2 on at CES because of this:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3232&p=3
02-26-2008, 03:06 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

1. You don't use a SLI board to bench a ati card, common sense tells you that.
2. As you can see, the results are much lower then what others have reported using X38 and other motherboards
3. There are only 2 games benchmark using an X2. They didn't show any results using QW:ET, HL2: EP2, UT3, Crysis, Call of Juareez, WiC and Lost Planet which was also benchmarked.
You really aren't making much of a point here and looking silly arguing it. Specially when 3870 CF can beat a X2 in a few games.

Because these are nonsense points you have. You say "common sense tells you that". There is a little thing missing from your point called *fact*. :shrug:

Sorry, but even if it were true and ONLY ATI were slower on this chipset, it sure as hell wouldn't account for such huge gaps seen in the games. A few percent at most.

It's also a bit hard to take *you* seriously because I know you are an ATI fanboy from [H] of all places :rofl:
02-26-2008, 03:09 AM
Eastcoasthandle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

Because these are nonsense points you have. You say "common sense tells you that". There is a little thing missing from your point called *fact*. :shrug:

It's also a bit hard to take *you* seriously because I know you are an ATI fanboy from [H] of all places :rofl:

Nothing in this post refutes what I've stated :p:. Attempting to name call makes your post like an empty barrel. And, it's common knowledge that those with X2 get 3dmark scores higher then what's found in that review. :up:
02-26-2008, 03:12 AM
ATI-RaWpOwEr

i dont know why people give so much credit to nvidia i agree that their gpu's are good only up to a certain point,however nvidia pays game publishers to optimize their games for nvidia gpu's
02-26-2008, 03:14 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

Nothing in this post refutes what I've stated :p:. And, it's common knowledge that those with X2 get 3dmark scores higher then what's found in that review. :up:

Yes, "concrete" points like "common sense says...", and the fact that there are only 2 games which I've already addressed. Way to counter a point I've already discussed..

So you believe if you pick the "wrong new chipset" for your system you'll lose 20-50% performance? I'm honestly laughing right now.

Lets say for the hell of it the ATI card is hurt on this chipset and the NVIDIA card is not. 3dmark scores are a couple thousand off. How much performance do you think that costs you in a real game? Enough to offset the 9600GT's "unfair" lead?
02-26-2008, 03:16 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATI-RaWpOwEr

i dont know why people give so much credit to nvidia i agree that their gpu's are good only up to a certain point,however nvidia pays game publishers to optimize their games for nvidia gpu's

You're perpetuating a lie... No money changes hands:

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...-man-writes-in
02-26-2008, 03:17 AM
TopherTony

Wanna know what I really liked about this article:
http://en.expreview.com/img/2008/02/.../96gt_3870.png
http://en.expreview.com/img/2008/02/.../96gt_3870.png

no one mentioned that did they? This is a much better representation of the ATI v. Nvidia brawl as of late
02-26-2008, 03:23 AM
AbelJemka

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

I already addressed this... I said I realize it's only 2 games, but its 2 of the best scaling games for ATI. It's not Lost Planet. It's Bioshock and COD4, the game they picked to preview their x2 on at CES because of this:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3232&p=3

Drivers use for this test an drivers use for expreview test are totally different!
02-26-2008, 03:27 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbelJemka

Drivers use for this test an drivers use for expreview test are totally different!

That doesn't change a thing...

Catalyst 8.1 modified for CrossfireX support vs. 8.2 WHQL

8.2's performance changelist:

Quote:

Company of Heroes DX10 Performance
-Performance improvements with this release of Catalyst™ includes Company of Heroes DX10 frame rates increasing as much as 20% across all of the ATI Radeon™ HD 2x00 series of products and on all ATI Radeon™ HD 3x00 series of products. These performance improvements are even larger (up to 30%) for CrossFire™ configurations.

We're only talking about 2 GPU's, so the special CrossfireX component doesn't matter, and neither does 8.2's lone change to CoH DX10....
02-26-2008, 03:27 AM
ATI-RaWpOwEr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

You're perpetuating a lie... No money changes hands:

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...-man-writes-in

if you have doughts about what i said then you are a complete moron get a life dude evreyone knows that nvidia pays game publishers and you expect nvidia to amit it then your A FOOL :rofl: :rofl:
02-26-2008, 03:29 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATI-RaWpOwEr

if you have doughts about what i said then you are a complete moron get a life dude evreyone knows that nvidia pays game publishers and you expect nvidia to amit it then your A FOOL :rofl: :rofl:

Whoa, slow down on the typing there, and allow the reply box to help you out with spelling.

The guy didn't work for them at the time he wrote the article. He had no reason to lie.

The funniest part of what you're saying is that you have it so backwards. ATI pays for games, NVIDIA does not.

Even so that's not inherently horrible... ATI is still supporting the game's development. It's just much less thoughtful.. it's like getting cash for Christmas instead of a present... sure it's useful but not a lot of time/effort went into picking that out for you. Besides, the cash could *conveniently* end up in a particular developer CEO's bonus check. Support can't ;)
02-26-2008, 03:35 AM
ATI-RaWpOwEr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

Whoa, slow down on the typing there, and allow the reply box to help you out with spelling.

The guy didn't work for them at the time he wrote the article. He had no reason to lie.

The funniest part of what you're saying is that you have it so backwards. ATI pays for games, NVIDIA does not.

Even so that's not inherently horrible... ATI is still supporting the game's development. It's just much less thoughtful.. it's like getting cash for Christmas instead of a present... sure it's useful but not a lot of time/effort went into picking that out for you.

stop wining i no the truth hurts and as for your pal that was not working at the time he wrote it he has a very good reason to lie if nvidia amits such a thing it would be like commiting suicide so hush!!!
02-26-2008, 03:37 AM
largon

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATI-RaWpOwEr

if you have doughts about what i said then you are a complete moron get a life dude evreyone knows that nvidia pays game publishers and you expect nvidia to amit it then your A FOOL

Internet rumour > statement of an ex-nVIDIAn?

Right.
02-26-2008, 03:37 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATI-RaWpOwEr

stop wining i no the truth hurts and as for your pal that was not working at the time he wrote it he has a very good reason to lie if nvidia amits such a thing it would be like commiting suicide so hush!!!

Let this be a lesson to all of the other 13 year old ATI fanboys. Stay in school!!!
02-26-2008, 03:41 AM
ATI-RaWpOwEr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

Let this be a lesson to all of the other 13 year old ATI fanboys. Stay in school!!!

hahaha 13year old maybe thats your age not mine thanks for letting me no anyway no i have a good enough reason to ignore your responses
02-26-2008, 03:43 AM
emlyn_dewar

Really need a couple more sites to post their SLI 9600 v 3870X2 results, preferably one which uses consistant test methods, rather than a raft of random games.
I'd also rather see the X2 tested on something other than an Nvidia chipset.
02-26-2008, 03:46 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATI-RaWpOwEr

hahaha 13year old maybe thats your age not mine thanks for letting me no anyway no i have a good enough reason to ignore your responses

lol, kid you called me a moron, a fool, said I was "wining", and told me to get a life. Please, tell me more about how I'm the one who should be ignored ;)

Stop your flame fest, the mods won't appreciate it.
02-26-2008, 03:48 AM
largon

ATI-RaWpOwEr,
Nice work ridiculing yourself. :)
02-26-2008, 03:50 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by largon

ATI-RaWpOwEr,
Nice work ridiculing yourself. :)

Hey dude, go easy on the kid. I used to do that alternating caps thing...

... when I was 13 and using AOL.
02-26-2008, 03:55 AM
Dimitriman

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopherTony

Wanna know what I really liked about this article:

no one mentioned that did they? This is a much better representation of the ATI v. Nvidia brawl as of late

Dunno about you guys but I see an ATI win here.

Besides 9600GT vs 3870X2 is a moot test. And something is fishy about that test as in many other much more reliable ones it shows that 9600GT is around 3850 speeds.

Wanna make a fair review? try 3850CF on X38/48 vs 9600GT SLI on all range of games.

otherwise - Phail.
02-26-2008, 03:57 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitriman

Dunno about you guys but I see an ATI win here.

Besides 9600GT vs 3870X2 is a moot test. And something is fishy about that test as in many other much more reliable ones it shows that 9600GT is around 3850 speeds.

Wanna make a fair review? try 3850CF on X38/48 vs 9600GT on all range of games.

otherwise - Phail.

By that logic, that's not *fair* either then, right? ATI and Intel have come out and said how much they work together to ensure optimal CF scaling on Intel chipsets.

Therefore you must bench on the only truly objective chipset known as "xBananas680-48i"

Truly though, the chipset you bench on doesn't make enough of a difference to turn a 20-30% win into a loss. Otherwise we'd be sitting here talking about upgrading and SLI'ing chipsets instead of upgrading and SLI'ing video cards ;)
02-26-2008, 04:00 AM
Dimitriman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

By that logic, that's not *fair* either then, right? ATI and Intel have come out and said how much they work together to ensure optimal CF scaling on Intel chipsets.

Therefore you must bench on the only truly objective chipset known as "xBananas680-48i"

Humm you cannot run 3850CF on Nvidia chipset.
02-26-2008, 04:01 AM
ATI-RaWpOwEr

largon and sr7 are 13 year old nivida boys. an as for my age im 20 and i go to university i dont have the time for immature bastards like you
02-26-2008, 04:02 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitriman

Humm you cannot run 3850CF on Nvidia chipset.

What does that matter? I'm talking about CF on an NV chipset by means of the x2, just as they did in the review.
02-26-2008, 04:03 AM
Dimitriman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

What does that matter? I'm talking about CF on an NV chipset by means of the x2, just as they did in the review.

And I was saying 3850CF vs 9600GT SLI is a better comparison.
02-26-2008, 04:04 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitriman

And I was saying 3850CF vs 9600GT SLI is a better comparison.

Well, for the most part, Crossfire is Crossfire, and profiles are profiles.
02-26-2008, 04:15 AM
grimREEFER

you could compare 3870 crossfire to 9600gt sli and get the same results basically. although the 3870 crossfire is only like $10 more than a 9600gt sli, so seeing it getting outperformed isnt so appalling.
02-26-2008, 04:18 AM
AbelJemka

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

Well, for the most part, Crossfire is Crossfire, and profiles are profiles.

You use ATI High end to compare but u can also use Nvidia High end :rolleyes:
This test is not about X2 versus 9600GT Sli so why u isolate this result from the test...

Moreover if +8% with 2 games is a large margin +45% versus 8800GTS 512 is what? :confused:
02-26-2008, 04:28 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbelJemka

You use ATI High end to compare but u can also use Nvidia High end :rolleyes:
This test is not about X2 versus 9600GT Sli so why u isolate this result from the test...

Moreover if +8% with 2 games is a large margin +45% versus 8800GTS 512 is what? :confused:

What are you talking about +8%? Look at the games. The 3dmark score is obviously going to be a different story, but fortunately you don't play 3dmark so I don't know why that matters.

The 8% is also a poor number for the review site to have calculated, because it's completely misleading...even though the 9600GT's loss was very low there in 3dmark for each test, they ran way more tests with 3dmark, giving it an unproportional weight in the *overall* score they give (8%). This drags down the overall average from the high numbers shown in the actual games.

You could arbitrarily run 2 COD4 tests, or 20 COD4 tests... it will drastically change the overall..

I guess you didn't notice this.
02-26-2008, 04:52 AM
AbelJemka

Just notice score are misleading. 2 Games benchmarks, 2 games without timedemos.
Only one review with 9600 GT SLI and 3870 X2 in it that i know is Firingsquad's review. COD 4 shows different picture in it :
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/gefo...s/cod41600.gif
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/gefo...s/cod41920.gif
So why trust Expreview over Firingsquad :rolleyes:

http://firingsquad.com/hardware/gefo...nce/page11.asp
02-26-2008, 05:00 AM
Sr7

Ya I guess, it just depends on what site you look at, and how they benchmark.

Even so, to me it's impressive if the 9600GT SLI even ties in any case, seeing as it's meant to be a mid-range card (relative to the rest of the line-up). They've beaten the price of the 3870 down with a stick.
02-26-2008, 05:01 AM
largon

Anyone know a review that has HD3870X2 scoring anywhere near 15k in 3DMark06? The ones I could find are 11-12k due to "slow" DC CPUs like E6600.
02-26-2008, 05:20 AM
Eastcoasthandle

Quote:

Originally Posted by largon

Anyone know a review that has HD3870X2 scoring anywhere near 15k in 3DMark06? The ones I could find are 11-12k due to "slow" DC CPUs like E6600.

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=5272142
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=5272142
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=5141334
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=5222145
02-26-2008, 05:21 AM
ATI-RaWpOwEr

Quote:

Originally Posted by largon

Anyone know a review that has HD3870X2 scoring anywhere near 15k in 3DMark06? The ones I could find are 11-12k due to "slow" DC CPUs like E6600.

http://www.fpslabs.com/reviews/video...-take-2/page-3

this should do:up:
02-26-2008, 05:28 AM
AbelJemka

Quote:

Originally Posted by largon

Anyone know a review that has HD3870X2 scoring anywhere near 15k in 3DMark06? The ones I could find are 11-12k due to "slow" DC CPUs like E6600.

http://www.clubic.com/article-92330-...680-rv670.html
02-26-2008, 05:33 AM
AbelJemka

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

Ya I guess, it just depends on what site you look at, and how they benchmark.

Even so, to me it's impressive if the 9600GT SLI even ties in any case, seeing as it's meant to be a mid-range card (relative to the rest of the line-up). They've beaten the price of the 3870 down with a stick.

3870 and 9600GT cost the same in Europe and 3870 CF is better than 9600GT SLI. 3850 CF cost even less and OC like a beast :D
02-26-2008, 05:47 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbelJemka

3870 and 9600GT cost the same in Europe and 3870 CF is better than 9600GT SLI. 3850 CF cost even less and OC like a beast :D

Well they're only $10 apart here in the US, but the 9600GT isn't very far behind the 3870 in most cases, in some cases it's ahead. I think it balances out to just about equal.
02-26-2008, 05:52 AM
OBR

YES it happend, here is my test! 9600 GT SLI ...

http://pctuning.tyden.cz/index.php?o...1&limitstart=2
02-26-2008, 05:57 AM
Kunaak

the 3870X2 is 2 190 dollar videocards smashed together into 1 card.

9600GT is 2 190 dollar videocard cards running together.

is there really any surprise here?
02-26-2008, 06:00 AM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunaak

the 3870X2 is 2 190 dollar videocards smashed together into 1 card.

9600GT is 2 190 dollar videocard cards running together.

is there really any surprise here?

Yes... everyone knew it would be close but it's just interesting to see that it can actually beat the x2 in some cases.
02-26-2008, 06:04 AM
AbelJemka

It beats the X2 like it beat all the Nvidia High End (GTX and Ultra) :rolleyes:
So rename the thread to "9600GT beats all the High End" :up:
02-26-2008, 06:05 AM
ATI-RaWpOwEr

http://www.fpslabs.com/reviews/video...-take-2/page-3

best score i've seen with a 3870 x2 so far
02-26-2008, 06:11 AM
mak1skav

I can't really understand why it is always Nvidia vs ATI. In my opinion the real truth is something like Intel vs Nvidia. Most buyers prefer to buy motherboards with Intel chipset so they are probably going to use ATI video cards in crossfire if they want to have the biggest graphic performance with their system. Personally i can understand that Nvidia builds more powerful video cards but i don't like to have Nvidia chipset in my motherboard and i prefer ATI's video quality.

P.S. I have used both Nvidia and ATI in the past with my systems.
02-26-2008, 06:11 AM
AbelJemka

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATI-RaWpOwEr

http://www.fpslabs.com/reviews/video...-take-2/page-3

best score i've seen with a 3870 x2 so far

4Ghz Penryn.
02-26-2008, 06:17 AM
ATI-RaWpOwEr

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbelJemka

4Ghz Penryn.

actually if you see the sreenshot of the 3dmark06 when tha bench was made it was only 3.2:up:
02-26-2008, 06:23 AM
AbelJemka

You'd better look closer :shocked:
02-26-2008, 06:25 AM
zakelwe

One advantage with 9600 SLI over x2 is that if the x2 breaks you have no PC, if one 9600 breaks then you can still use your PC. But for performance it's very equal, hence why this thread is so long. Both options seem pretty good.

One thing it does show up is that previous nvidia 8500/8600 and 2600 for AMD were not that good as a midrange part. It's no wonder the 8800 GTS 320M and 8800GT were so popular.

Regards
Andy
02-26-2008, 06:29 AM
AbelJemka

Go 3870 CF that simple! and u can add one extra card or more!!! :up:
Just a pity Nvidia reserved Tri SLI for the elite :mad:
02-26-2008, 06:36 AM
trans am

lets see 2 9600gt stock cooled get past 20k in 2006 on a cd2 (dual core) then I'll be impressed
02-26-2008, 06:54 AM
OBR

in my country are TWO 9600GTs cheaper then 3870X2 ...
02-26-2008, 06:56 AM
AbelJemka

And 2 3870?
02-26-2008, 07:00 AM
trans am

Quote:

Originally Posted by OBR

in my country are TWO 9600GTs cheaper then 3870X2 ...

your country also gets lower 2006 scores
02-26-2008, 07:19 AM
Linchpin

All in all it's a draw, that being said the 9600GT doesn't take such massive dips in performance as the HD3870X2 does in several titles.
02-26-2008, 07:19 AM
OBR

Quote:

Originally Posted by trans am

your country also gets lower 2006 scores

yaeh, of course! because we dont play stupid benchmarks but games ...:rofl:
02-26-2008, 08:05 AM
NotFred

I found the 3870 page interesting, as I believe the 3870 is a bit cheaper (after its recent price drop) than the 9600GT...

Also, in the review against the 3870, only CoD 4 consistently performs bette on the 9600GT. Interesting that they chose this game and crysis to benchmark the 3870X2 with then...
02-26-2008, 08:09 AM
Krizby87

lol, read through the thread and I realized this is Xtremesytems, where 3Dmarks matters more than games fps, so the place is crawling with ATI fanboys :D because in almost every other forums games fps and compatibility matters more and Nvidia has been the right of way there.
02-26-2008, 08:40 AM
DilTech

I don't know why anyone is surprised here...Guys, did you NOT see the scaling percentages for this puppy? If you didn't pay attention to them, then go back and look again.

Now, take a second look.

At 1680x1050 4xAA 16xAF you're looking at an average OVER 90% in games for crying out loud.

Now, lets be honest here. The 9600GT is a strong performer as a single card, but scaling with those percentages is going to make it's SLi performance scary. Looks like the 9 series may have also received some hardware optimizations for multi-gpu.

If those percentages carry over to the 9800gx2...
02-26-2008, 09:11 AM
speedfreak86

I would think that the board would make some difference if for no other reason than that I THINK (key distinction there) that the nvidia chipset doesn't give as good of clock for clock performance with quads. Mine has better memory latency on the x38 gets better processor scores in nearly every benchmark. However, this would make BOTH scores lower. Just my thoughts.
02-26-2008, 09:32 AM
NotFred

Quote:

Originally Posted by DilTech

If those percentages carry over to the 9800gx2...

Indeed, the multi-GPU optimisation and SP improvements shown on the 9600GT mean that the 9800GTX and 9800GX2 could both be something to shout about after all, possibly, and not becuase of a 512mb memory bus, or 2 gigs or memory, or any other bits of wild speculation.
02-26-2008, 12:44 PM
JoeBar

Very nice scaling and scores. The bad thing is a SLI mb... :p:
02-26-2008, 01:52 PM
adamsleath

yeah the sli scaling does look good for 9600gt...so far
02-26-2008, 02:37 PM
v_rr

SLI problem is SLI boards.
It´s important is to see how 3870x2 vs 9800gx2 perform.

And offcourse see how quad-crossfire goes with cat 8.3
02-26-2008, 03:34 PM
LowRun

GeForce 9600 GT vs. Radeon HD 3870 + SLI vs CF

With a little more games than expreview

http://www.techspot.com/article/88-g...radeon-hd3870/
02-26-2008, 03:44 PM
NotFred

Very interesting review. Shows similar results to the first in the games they tested, but shows a different story in others. Overall the two cards seem practically identically performing.

So all in all, it seems to come down to which company you prefer, and if you can put up with an Nvidia chipset.
02-26-2008, 03:53 PM
jaredpace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

You're perpetuating a lie... No money changes hands:

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...-man-writes-in

all your posts in this thread are incorrect and misinformed. read some more of what these people are saying, and stop doubting they know their stuff
02-26-2008, 04:23 PM
Ethelred

I think it's safe to say the 3870 and 9600 are performing on par with each other, and the choice of which card to get it only weighed on price and the peripherals not doing with the card in particular. With that in mind, I think Ati has a clear advantage in that Nvidia boards suck...SLI for the most part I think everyone can agree does not make for great OC'ing or sustainability...

.02
02-26-2008, 04:25 PM
NotFred

Also... doesn't crossfire support multiple monitors now where as Sli limits you to one?
02-26-2008, 04:37 PM
jimmyz

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotFred

Also... doesn't crossfire support multiple monitors now where as Sli limits you to one?

the new forceware drivers were supposed to have support, don't know if they did or not. I have ATI cards. I think the video support on the ATI cards is better and that is what usually sways it for me.
02-26-2008, 04:41 PM
NotFred

WHAT?!
*scrambles to go download newest drivers*
*eyes secondary screen sitting idle*

How did I miss that....

Edit:

Hmm, cant see it mentioned in the release notes... and I'd have to mess around with these to get them to run my 'old' ?! cards.
02-26-2008, 10:04 PM
Neova

Quote:

Originally Posted by OBR

YES it happend, here is my test! 9600 GT SLI ...

http://pctuning.tyden.cz/index.php?o...1&limitstart=2

ORB,

Nice review. Since you have both 3870x2 and 9600 GT SLI, how do the minimum frames compare and did you notice any of the microstuttering that another thread claims exists with multi-gpu setups?

Perhaps a follow article later on to answer those questions?

Great work!
02-26-2008, 10:43 PM
Zytek_Fan

Quote:

Originally Posted by DilTech

I don't know why anyone is surprised here...Guys, did you NOT see the scaling percentages for this puppy? If you didn't pay attention to them, then go back and look again.

Now, take a second look.

At 1680x1050 4xAA 16xAF you're looking at an average OVER 90% in games for crying out loud.

Now, lets be honest here. The 9600GT is a strong performer as a single card, but scaling with those percentages is going to make it's SLi performance scary. Looks like the 9 series may have also received some hardware optimizations for multi-gpu.

If those percentages carry over to the 9800gx2...

Interesting to say the least.
02-27-2008, 12:33 AM
zakelwe

Quote:

Originally Posted by v_rr

SLI problem is SLI boards.

Not any more

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...0&postcount=35

:D

Regards

Andy
02-27-2008, 01:10 AM
NotFred

That just adds weight to the argument that if Nvidia want Sli to really take off they should licence it to Intel chipsets. :-)
02-27-2008, 01:35 PM
NapalmV5

for unless i miss my guess.. the 4000hd hounds beath released soon
02-27-2008, 01:54 PM
StimulatedBoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by awdrifter

That's very good results, I can't wait to see what the 9800GX2 can do.

This might be an indication... :p:

NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GX2 Launch Delayed Until March 18th

VR-Zone informs that the upcoming GeForce 9800 GX2 launch will be delayed again till March 18th. No reasons was provided by NVIDIA, but the delay is probably due to driver issues. Right now, according to unconfirmed reports the card is scoring about 14k+ in 3DMark06, which is lower than Radeon HD 3870 X2.

http://www.vr-zone.com/articles/GeFo...arch/5602.html

http://www.techpowerup.com/53775/NVI...ch _18th.html

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