lapping my Ultra-120 Extreme cost me $90 (to replace it)

When my Ultra-120 X and I have to say I'm a little puzzled. The base where it should contact the heat spreader is not smooth at all, it's actually grooved! You can see a scratch which is where I gently ran my thumb nail over the surface; I could feel the rough edges.

Have a look for yourself:
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/7571/startzy5.jpg

Anyway, others encouraged me to lap it which I've never done before. After wrestling with the idea for a couple of days as well as reading many articles/guides, I decided to give it a go. $20 worth of sandpaper, a $2 piece of flat glass, and 4 hours of careful work (and sweat) later, I was left with a pretty darn flat HS. You can see by the pictures that this particular one was quite concave instead of being flat which isn't good for keeping contact between the HS and IHS of the CPU.

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/1845/hs1cl9.jpg
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/7464/hs2wu7.jpg
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9980/hs3ok0.jpg

Did it work you're probably wondering. The temp data as measured in speedfan.exe for a ~1 h x264 encode (uses all 4 cores with a CPU load of >99 %). I had speedfan log the temps (which it does every 3-4 seconds) and I averaged the whole data set per core for the 2nd pass of the 2-pass encode (the 2nd pass is the most CPU intensive). Room temp for both experiments was ~23 °C. By the way, I added a constant of 15 to each core in speedfan since it incorrectly displays temps for quads by 15 °C.

System specs: Q6600 @ 9x333=3.01 GHz (stock voltage), P5B-Deluxe in an Antec p182 case.

Code:

---

Before lapping the HS:

Core 0: 66.9
Core 1: 66.4
Core 2: 60.6
Core 3: 60.6

After lapping the HS:

Core 0: 64.9
Core 1: 64.4
Core 2: 59.0
Core 3: 59.4

Delta:

Core 0: 2.0
Core 1: 2.0
Core 2: 1.6
Core 3: 1.2

---

I got a much larger drop after I did the IHS of my Q6600 as well. You can read about it in this thread. As always, there are before/after data and pics before, during and after.

Enjoy!

did you do a flatness test to ensure that its even? have you tried modifying the mounting system any to get it to make better contact if you took too much off?

Sorry to hear about that bro, and I know you don't really want to hear this but you saved alot of our asses. I said I was gonna lap mine, but I guess my first thoughts were right. Thermalrights products have the greatest quality and efficiency , I knew that they didn't just get lazy and screw up the base. The fact that its slightly convex is not surprising, I'm actually glad they made it that way, this has recently become very popular in watercooling.

I lapped my apogee waterblock which was convex, and now my idle/load temps are both 10c higher. It hurts when load @1.52 vcore was 48c and now its 58c :(

I haven't tested it beyond putting a drop of water on a pane of glass and then placing the heatsink on the water drop, it looks very uniformly distributed from the bottom, looking up -- much better than when I did the same test before I lapped it.

No, I'm finished modifying my PC for the moment. No way am I gonna f*ckup the MB now. I'll post some pics of the process.

Here are some pics of the process (they're all in one 1.2 meg file - sorry for your analog modem folks). Anyone tell me what I did wrong?

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/2514/lappingva2.jpg

The only thing I can think of is it looks like you only sanded in 1 direction left to right, but I'm not sure if that actually has an effect. Other than that it looks good.

Is your CPU lapped? Maybe your cpu is alittle concave, making a convex thermalright a good fit.:p:

Hand lapped? Lapped on a flat surface, like a mirror? Looks uneven. :confused:

@hotrodtheman: as I did it I went back and forth for about 1 min, then rotated 90 degrees, 1 min, rotate, etc. I think the pics are misleading.

@scyth3: No, it's not lapped and given my track record lapping it will never get lapped :)

@ zhaoyun: yeah hand lapped using a piece of glass on a flat counter top. I dunno why it looks uneven.

Lapping is not a bad idea, you just did a poor job no offense. it shouldn't hurt temps if its perfectly flat. I lapped a Scythe Ninja and it improved temps by a few *. Also when I do the glass test one small droplet will evenly cover the hole bottom of the heat sink when smashed against the glass.

@daveb2012: no offense taken. What did I do that's so poor? I removed the nickel plating, exposed the copper, etc. What would you recommend after seeing my pics?

Thanks!

graysky, I think it's far more likely that you don't have good coverage of TIM, or your mount is too loose.

Also, if you see retention bracket marks in the HS now, how could it not have touched the retention bracket before lapping?

C2D's are -famous- for being concave, which requires lots more TIM. Put a -thick- line of TIM on your cpu, pointing from one side of your case to the other (IE, up and down, if you have a tower case), and see what your temps are.

Also, to verify, this thing does -not- use plastic pushpins, right? -Everybody- mismounts pushpins, they take lots more pressure to mount than you'd think.

It's a shame you bought another one... see if you can return it without a restock fee, else ebay it. There's no reason you can't get great temps after lapping. At -worst- you'd make the heatsink convex, which should work -better- on a concave C2D.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by graysky

@daveb2012: no offense taken. What did I do that's so poor? I removed the nickel plating, exposed the copper, etc. What would you recommend after seeing my pics?

Thanks!

---

well heres the method I used that seemed to work for me.

1st I used the following grits:
# 400
# 600
# 800
# 1000
# 1200
# 1500

I then used glass from a small picture frame maybe 3x2". I wraped tightly the sand paper around the glass making sure it was perfectly flat. I had the heat sink up side down, bottom facing up, then applied even pressure pushing down on the bottom of the heat sink. I tried to use a small circle motion, I also used water with all the papers.

Interesting and a bit concerning. I'll probably go ahead and lap mine in the next few days. I know my e6600 prefers lapped sinks, because it dropped 4c off the load when I lapped my Tuniq.

chances are you probably applied too much pressure to one side and made it uneven, no worry tho, i did that with my XP-90 and i easily corrected it by relapping it some more. You can check for evenness by doing a grid test with a piece of grid paper, or using a razer blade to check for gaps under the blade itself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lad

graysky, I think it's far more likely that you don't have good coverage of TIM, or your mount is too loose.

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Well, I think I have a good feel for the right amount of TIM to use do to about 8 trials before I lapped it. I did the experiment where I used more TIM than AS5 recommended and the temps were high.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lad

Also, if you see retention bracket marks in the HS now, how could it not have touched the retention bracket before lapping?

---

It's probably that it did, but that the nickel plated stuff didn't show it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lad

Also, to verify, this thing does -not- use plastic pushpins, right? -Everybody- mismounts pushpins, they take lots more pressure to mount than you'd think.

It's a shame you bought another one... see if you can return it without a restock fee, else ebay it. There's no reason you can't get great temps after lapping. At -worst- you'd make the heatsink convex, which should work -better- on a concave C2D.

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No, they're metal screws. I guess I could sand down the edges to make it convex again but how will I know if I get the slope right? Sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spawne32

chances are you probably applied too much pressure to one side and made it uneven, no worry tho, i did that with my XP-90 and i easily corrected it by relapping it some more. You can check for evenness by doing a grid test with a piece of grid paper, or using a razer blade to check for gaps under the blade itself.

---

No, it's flat. I colored all over the base with a black marker and lapped that w/ 800 grit paper, about 5 circles was all it took to totally remove the marker.

didn't see you mention it before but is your ihs flat, concave (like most/mine), slanted? that's about the only thing aside from no/not enough tension from the bracket that i can think of. was going to lap mine when i got it but i might wait a bit now :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by graysky

Long story short, I just ordered another Ultra-120 X to replace this one. My wallet is $90 lighter. Do yourself a favor: don't try to lap a heatsink.

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Just because you screwed up lapping doesn't mean you should demonize it for others. It's a fairly exact science in terms of lapping on a completely level surface, and if you had fears of messing up, you shouldn't have attempted it.

With my enzo and QX6700, I lapped only the CPU, but not excessively. I found that my poor temps were coming from the heatsink base actually hitting the CPU/mobo lockdown frame. On my bad axe 2, I removed the frame and dropped my temps about 10 C. You just have to be careful not to over tighten.

I know you said you wouldn't lap your IHS, but when I lapped my concave IHS my load temps dropped 13c

Everything is good, see the first post of the thread which I edited. Thanks to all who replied.

If that's the case where u didn't apply enough as5 that would lead me to think that your CPU IHS is not flat at all which is why you would need more AS5.

When both surfaces are completely flat u don't need much as5 at all but if they're not flat then u need more as5 to fill in the convex or concave parts.

Thats much better :D
I was planning on lapping mine anyways.

How come so many people said he screwed up on lapping? How can you tell if it is flat from his pics? You did a good job and you should lap your cpu too.:)

can you repost the pictures?

Since you figured it out, did you send the other one back?

Idea: Maybe he took too much off and the mounting isn't providing enough pressure?

Should have tried a re-mount first. It might have saved you $90.

I never saw any pictures of the job he did; the links are dead.

However, I'm glad to hear it wasn't all for naught, and that it turned out to be a minor thing.

I think the pics are dead because imageshack has some sort of bandwidth limitation if too many people hit it in a given period of time. Plus the image was like 1.2 megs. I'll shrink it down and use a lower quality jpg and edit that post soon.

can't say from those pics whether the hs is flat or not. using 1500-2000 grit will give it a much nicer finish and less scratches. not finishing with a close to mirror finish is like doing half the job :stick: to me anyway. you lapped it that much might as well finish it off, unless if you take anymore off then the bracket won't hold it down or it will hit something on your mb.

@HR: I've heard from people who lapped tons of HSs and waterblocks that using the ultra high grit really doesn't do anything for you aside from giving your arms a work out and making the base of the thing really reflective.

I personally dont get the water test for flatness but whatever. Here is your flatness test right here:

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/111/img0004ty1.jpg

When your HS AND CPU look like this, lapping until you no longer can see any light in any direction, on both the cpu AND HS, takes 10C off your load temp!
And I only went to 600 grit and used ASCeramique

now tell me whats wrong with that picture

edit: sorry for a sec there i thought that the OP posted that and that was his flatness test

dont mean to derail the thread, but where can you order just the clips to add a second fan as a pull fan on the ultra 120-x xtreme.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by little_scrapper

I personally dont get the water test for flatness but whatever. Here is your flatness test right here:

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/111/img0004ty1.jpg

When your HS AND CPU look like this, lapping until you no longer can see any light in any direction, on both the cpu AND HS, takes 10C off your load temp!
And I only went to 600 grit and used ASCeramique

---

Awww man...... Now i'm gonna pull my scythe infinity YET AGAIN. That is CRAZY. I thought Scythe was known for a good flat surface right out of the box. Ah well. I never took a pic of my CPU lap job so what the hell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by idiotekniQues

dont mean to derail the thread, but where can you order just the clips to add a second fan as a pull fan on the ultra 120-x xtreme.

---

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/thflfanwiclf.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by graysky

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/thflfanwiclf.html

---

are you positive they work with the Ultra-120? it says XP120 there

I'm not positive... you might wanna email them and let us know.

I dont get it the after temps look lower than the before temps. how did it screw up the hs?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by graysky

I'm not positive... you might wanna email them and let us know.

---

thanks.

those look just like the right ones.

i ordered them and a medium speed scythe to pull on my ultra 120-x.

should knock off a couple degrees and let me put my push fan one notch lower too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darkjediii

I dont get it the after temps look lower than the before temps. how did it screw up the hs?

---

same here :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by idiotekniQues

thanks.

those look just like the right ones.

i ordered them and a medium speed scythe to pull on my ultra 120-x.

should knock off a couple degrees and let me put my push fan one notch lower too.

---

PLEASE update this thread and let us know if they are right...also, did they come with the anti-vibration strips?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by graysky

PLEASE update this thread and let us know if they are right...also, did they come with the anti-vibration strips?

---

after looking at many pics off the clips, I'm quite certain they are not the same, not even close for a forced fit, possibility for bending, but these clips seem very sturdy, any real permanent bending may break it.

maybe i'm wrong though, since he's already ordered it, time will tell :]

ill find out in a couple days and let you guys know :)

they arent the same, found anotehr thread on this adn a guy had this pic

http://www.overclock.net/attachments...s?d=1184290961

you can order them direct from thermalright for 5 bucks a set.

i may just use zip ties.

once i saw that thread earlier today i emailed sidewinder to cancel the fan clip part of the order.

i just got an email saying that it was done and my fan would ship out monday.

props to sidewinder for the customer service.

@idiotekniques -- so did those clips fit the u-120 ex okay?

Just a couple of comments. Looks to me your temps did drop, which you corrected. My thinking is that occationally you have both the IHS and the Heat sink a little off. Sometimes they concidentally match. For example one concave the other convex. If you just lap the heat sink you'd end up with a worse match and higher temps. The other possibilities have been mentioned. Poor lap job and loose fit as the Ultra-120 mounting is poor to begin with.

If you do get higher temps after lapping then check the lap, then modify the mount to get better pressure. I'd probably just put some thermal tape on the back plate. That would move the back plate away from the board and give you a tighter fit. If that doesn't work, then lap the IHS or remove it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhilDoc

If that doesn't work, then lap the IHS or remove it.

---

Just for reference, DO NOT try to remove your IHS unless you want a dead CPU. It's possible, but take a TON of careful work because the IHS is actually bonded to the cores themselves. 99% of the time you'll destroy your CPU....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by M Diddy

Just for reference, DO NOT try to remove your IHS unless you want a dead CPU. It's possible, but take a TON of careful work because the IHS is actually bonded to the cores themselves. 99% of the time you'll destroy your CPU....

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Well, you certainly need to be careful. As long as you take it slowly, have something secure to hold the cpu and not bend the pin, and keep the razor blade at the right angle, you should be fine. I've done it so many times I can't even begin to count them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PhilDoc

Well, you certainly need to be careful. As long as you take it slowly, have something secure to hold the cpu and not bend the pin, and keep the razor blade at the right angle, you should be fine. I've done it so many times I can't even begin to count them.

---

Which type of CPU? I've heard they are soldered down on E/Q6600's and above.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by graysky

Which type of CPU? I've heard they are soldered down on E/Q6600's and above.

---

Good point, they've all been amd cpu's. Haven't tried an Intel since the 3.2G 478 pin. That went fine, but I do remember hearing that Intel started soldering down their IHS at aroung that time.

Which was my point.... ;) There started to solder the core to the IHS with the Pressler's I believe, making it near to impossible to take off...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by M Diddy

Which was my point.... ;) There started to solder the core to the IHS with the Pressler's I believe, making it near to impossible to take off...

---

Sorry, been so long since I've ran Intel, almost forgot they existed, lol

graysky I'm confused - you lapped and got better temps and you are wondering what you did wrong?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NJDevilsFan21

graysky I'm confused - you lapped and got better temps and you are wondering what you did wrong?

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Did you read the whole thread?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he initially had a problem but then in removing it and putting it back in [or whatever he did] it fixed the problem and he reported that near the bottom of the first page of this thread. He edited his first post to show that lapping did improve his temps.

So, lapping did NOT screw up his heatsink. CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG OP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by graysky

Which type of CPU? I've heard they are soldered down on E/Q6600's and above.

---

Have you tried doing the heavy duty mounting tutorial that I think freecableguy had for the thermalright 120?? It involved using some more heavy duty hardware store stuff and TIM. I personally wouldn't mess with TIM, but I think it offered a few degrees in improvement.

lol he should def change the title of this thread to reflect his "correction"

Lapping rarely if ever "screws" a HS or WB...just redo it until you get it right--there's a ton of material to work with.

A CPU could be a different matter...

i've lapped dozens of heatsinks in the past and you can make a right mess if you rush it

this is my ultra 120 which i did with 2400 silicon carbide sheeting. anything under is too course and will take too much away resulting in an un-even surface. took around 2 hours and lots of elbow grease, also lapped the cpu and although streeks can be seen they cannot be felt. the best technique is to put some water droplets on a kitchen counter (flat essential) put the sandpaper ontop and went the top of the sand paper. put the heatsink ontop and start off in your circular motions turning every few minutes. i used acetone to clean off the residue and washed the paper to get rid of any build up that would affect it. also i use bounty kitchen roll as cheaper ones tend to be very fibrous and tear

here is the results .... temps are 29-30 degrees idle with a nexus 12 can fan mounted and goes upto 41 playing fear or something similiar with all details rammed up

http://www.gwynfryn.eclipse.co.uk/hs1.jpg
http://www.gwynfryn.eclipse.co.uk/hs2.jpg
http://www.gwynfryn.eclipse.co.uk/hs3.jpg

i've posted a thread about the lapping job i did

check it out :

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=156216

Just curious... if anyone was "inspired" to try this on their chip after reading my guide?