stained tubing..

I've been through about 4-5 loops in my lifetime and it seems that every time I drain the system . I get stained tubes.

If I was using Hydrx, it would be stained green, or zerex would be purple.

I know im not using too much, im using the minimum, so im good on that

But i've always used cheap Masterkleer, is that the problem? so go with Tygon next time? Or is there some sort of additive I can buy to keep the tubes clear? I've also heard that Masterkleer is generally not as clear and non cloudy as premium tubing.

Makes no difference. Tygon will eventually go cloudy as well.

theres no additive or liquid based solution to keep it clean?

Nope. The best way to keep it clean is to use plain distilled water with colorless additive and to change your liquid often.. like every two months. I change 1/2 my loop every month by simply emptying out my reservoir and refilling. So far so good, but it'll cloud up eventually.

Some people have had success with more dracionian methods such as liquid bleach and toilet bowl cleaner, but I would avoid that if I were you. Hydrochloric acid and acetic acid, no matter how diluted, cannot be good for copper waterblocks and radiators.

Don't think that using expensive Tygon will eliminate the clouding. It'll prolong the period of clear tubes, but that's about it. In general, I expect to replace all my tubes every year anyway.

Use 2% Zerex rather than 5% Zerex. Use diluted Hydrx unless you have true algae problems. Diluted additives help. But stay away from Masterkleer.

Purely cos I don't know if anyone's done this yet, have just emailed SaintGobain a pile of datasheets for the common additives, and a list of their products that we all tend to use (Tygon R3603, R3400, SM, and their Vincon "Masterkleer" range) requesting one of their guys recommend a specific line of clear tubing that suits our purposes but will minimise any risk of clouding / staining etc... will let you know what they say (if anything)...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marci

Purely cos I don't know if anyone's done this yet, have just emailed SaintGobain a pile of datasheets for the common additives, and a list of their products that we all tend to use (Tygon R3603, R3400, SM, and their Vincon "Masterkleer" range) requesting one of their guys recommend a specific line of clear tubing that suits our purposes but will minimise any risk of clouding / staining etc... will let you know what they say (if anything)...

---

that would be awesome, thanks
I know im not the only one tired of replacing tubing all the time

You should get those black or silver tubes.. never see clouding.. peace of mind haha

OK... starting to receive info from SaintGobain's Tech Dept... and word at the moment is that R3603 Tygon is NOT the tubing we should be using... they're still working thru the datasheets to find the perfect tubing for our purposes, but they've already stated that R3603 effectively isn't it, and that with the properties of our typical coolants, yes, it will cloud/stain over time. Adding ANYTHING which contains Glycol will worsen / speed up the staining.

Bear with me - more info as I get it...

thanks dude ... marci

Subscribed.

Although I just bought 20 feet of masterkleer (SO CHEAP!) I would welcome any tubing that never clouds so long is it wasn't amazingly overpriced.

This is my first loop running nothing but distilled and a colourless plast-safe anti-fungal. We'll see how quick it clouds haha.

maybe insted of remcommending a different tube they might have some ideas on a different additive to the distilled insted of the Glycol based stuff

They're a tubing company, not an additive producer. The folks to ask there would be the guys making the additives, not the guys making the tubing.

marci... how big is pc watercooling in the tube industry for companys like tygon, small part of the pie for them?

Miniscule - far less than 1% of total sales.

Would be great if we finally found tubing that wouldn't stain or cloud. Thanks for checking this out Marci.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IanY

Use 2% Zerex rather than 5% Zerex. Use diluted Hydrx unless you have true algae problems. Diluted additives help. But stay away from Masterkleer.

---

Or use no zerex, hdryx or anything else because it's completely unnecessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thunderstruck!

Or use no zerex, hdryx or anything else because it's completely unnecessary.

---

I'm 100% with you on this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IanY

You should get those black or silver tubes.. never see clouding.. peace of mind haha

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good point but i can imagine the troubles when bleeding your loop esp. with a t-line

Quote:

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Or use no zerex, hdryx or anything else because it's completely unnecessary.

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Missing my point...

Quote:

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yes, it will cloud/stain over time. Adding ANYTHING which contains Glycol will worsen / speed up the staining

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Additives speed up clouding... even with plain distilled and nothing else, it will still cloud in time... just not as quickly, hence R3603 isn't what folks should really be using. There are formulations which will take MUCH longer to cloud, and this is what we're after... but none that will guarantee no clouding whatsoever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thunderstruck!

Or use no zerex, hdryx or anything else because it's completely unnecessary.

---

yea but in my experiences (cant speak for anybody else)
I use a reservoir and I eliminate a lot of the waterfall and sloshing sounds with hydrx. It changes the surface tension getting rid of bubbles.

It just makes me loop more silent for some odd reason that I cant explain

but i guess with a t-line it wouldn't even matter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aldy402

yea but in my experiences (cant speak for anybody else)
I use a reservoir and I eliminate a lot of the waterfall and sloshing sounds with hydrx. It changes the surface tension getting rid of bubbles.

It just makes me loop more silent for some odd reason that I cant explain

but i guess with a t-line it wouldn't even matter

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I get your point, but has there ever been an instance when the bubbles in a system do not eventually bleed out, even if it takes a few days when using a T-line?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IanY

I get your point, but has there ever been an instance when the bubbles in a system do not eventually bleed out, even if it takes a few days when using a T-line?

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good point as well but how long does regular distilled water usually last until you start getting buildup in your loop and I remember reading somewhere that it really clogs your block.

regular distilled means more maintenance, but i guess thats the trade off

Quote:

---

I use a reservoir and I eliminate a lot of the waterfall and sloshing sounds with hydrx. It changes the surface tension getting rid of bubbles.

---

Then you needed more water in the reservoir. Expect sloshing sounds for the first day or two until all tiny encapsulated airbubbles are bled. Once they're gone, as long as reservoir is FULL to capacity there should be no noise from it. No need for additive to achieve this, only to achieve it quicker. Sloshing reoccurs if water-level drops. Again, additive tension reduction merely prevents you hearing it for when you cba to do something about it. In reality, if you hear sloshing again it means something needs bleeding or filling. Do so and noise should go away again.

S'a matter of convenience vs doing what is necessary to run the rig "correctly"...

Quick and Easy generally always involves a sacrifice elsewhere... this is the lesson most need to learn along the way in watercooling... patience! :)

Quote:

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how long does regular distilled water usually last until you start getting buildup in your loop and I remember reading somewhere that it really clogs your block.

---

You read wrong. If getting any buildup using nothing but distilled, you have mixed metals somewhere...

The buildup most report is the additive separating from the distilled water, or other contaminations... distilled on it's own has nothing to separate down into that can become a buildup etc.

Plain distilled on it's own in a quality loop (no mixedmetals) = less maintenance.

Distilled + Additive = additive needs refreshing every xx months (differs from additive to additive) without fail to maintain anticorrosive properties.
Non-Conductive coolants = collect ions over time becoming conductive unless refreshed every xx months also.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marci

Then you needed more water in the reservoir. Expect sloshing sounds for the first day or two until all tiny encapsulated airbubbles are bled. Once they're gone, as long as reservoir is FULL to capacity there should be no noise from it. No need for additive to achieve this, only to achieve it quicker. Sloshing reoccurs if water-level drops. Again, additive tension reduction merely prevents you hearing it for when you cba to do something about it. In reality, if you hear sloshing again it means something needs bleeding or filling. Do so and noise should go away again.

S'a matter of convenience vs doing what is necessary to run the rig "correctly"...

Quick and Easy generally always involves a sacrifice elsewhere... this is the lesson most need to learn along the way in watercooling... patience! :)

---

your absolutely right but I did have the res full. I waited about 2-3 days and it was still noisy, It drove me crazy because there was no explanation for it but ultimately i think it was just the res. It was a 5.25 acrylic. already ordered a swiftech micro res

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marci

You read wrong. If getting any buildup using nothing but distilled, you have mixed metals somewhere...

The buildup most report is the additive separating from the distilled water, or other contaminations... distilled on it's own has nothing to separate down into that can become a buildup etc.

Plain distilled on it's own in a quality loop (no mixedmetals) = less maintenance.

Distilled + Additive = additive needs refreshing every xx months (differs from additive to additive) without fail to maintain anticorrosive properties.
Non-Conductive coolants = collect ions over time becoming conductive unless refreshed every xx months also.

---

that was informative
thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aldy402

your absolutely right but I did have the res full. I waited about 2-3 days and it was still noisy, It drove me crazy because there was no explanation for it but ultimately i think it was just the res. It was a 5.25 acrylic. already ordered a swiftech micro res

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good choice, the sloshing isn't a problem with the micro res and a powerful pump.

Marci is right about the staining/fogging of the R3603 even without additives. I use only distilled and 5 drops of non-alcohol Iodine (biocide) asnd still ghave the problem a few montths later. All copper for me - no metal mixing either. I am about resigned to go with the black or silver stuff recommended earlier.

Thanks for digging into this Marci.

I thought the sound of running water was therapeutic.

I have always suffered with severe clouding. This time was the 3rd time I cleaned the whole loop, and I used zerex this time where I usually haven't... No clouding!... odd.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marci

OK... starting to receive info from SaintGobain's Tech Dept... and word at the moment is that R3603 Tygon is NOT the tubing we should be using... they're still working thru the datasheets to find the perfect tubing for our purposes, but they've already stated that R3603 effectively isn't it, and that with the properties of our typical coolants, yes, it will cloud/stain over time. Adding ANYTHING which contains Glycol will worsen / speed up the staining.

Bear with me - more info as I get it...

---

Tygon 2000 series looks interesting... but dang expensive $5 a foot.
Maybe I shud bite the bullet and buy a PA120.3 and whichever Tygon formula ends up being the most compatiable with the tax return.

do you mean tygon 2001 Plasticizer Free Tubing?
http://www.tygon.com/Data/Element/No...00000000001498

Quote:

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Originally Posted by _G_

do you mean tygon 2001 Plasticizer Free Tubing?
http://www.tygon.com/Data/Element/No...00000000001498

---

The ones of interest are: Tygon 2075 or 2275 ... hydrophobic and nonpolar formulation.. sounds yummy.. gotta find me a rich sugarmommy!

2075 & 2275 are the two being mentioned the most in discussions with SaintGobain at the moment...

Any updates Marci?

I am in hopes of some information before I place my last order for my parts. This topic popped up just as I was getting ready to order my tubing.

Quote:

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2075 & 2275 are the two being mentioned the most in discussions with SaintGobain at the moment...

---

Is as updated as it gets right now... have just emailed to see if they've gone any further...

Why not use the tygon beverage tubing B-44-3 It's Non-wetting surface permits thorough cleaning and complete drainage and should not absorb anything ! clouding is from the aditives penetrating the surface of the tubing ,If it dose not penetrate/absorb the dye's ect it will not cloud .

Why guess? Why not just use what they're recommending for use for our purposes, based on the chemical makeup of the additives that we tend to use frequently?

Guesswork is the reason everyone's been using R3603 for the past 9 years...

This has the potential to change the tubbing issues for good, thanks Marci. Subscribed.

Well this is what I found when I googled the name;
"ygon® 2075 Ultra Chemical Resistant Tubing offers an unequaled combination of chemical resistance, clarity and flexibility. Tygon® Ultra Chemical Resistant Tubing is virtually unaffected by acids, bases, ketones, salts and alcohols. It's entirely plasticizer-free, eliminating fluid contamination and the premature embrittlement and cracking common with many flexible tubings. Its exceptionally smooth inner surface inhibits particulate buildup and reduces the potential for contamination. Tygon® 2075 Ultra Chemical Resistant Tubing can be sterilized by Ethylene Oxide gas or steam in an autoclave"

Now in what sizes does it come, where can we get it and how much will it set us back?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marci

Why guess? Why not just use what they're recommending for use for our purposes, based on the chemical makeup of the additives that we tend to use frequently?

Guesswork is the reason everyone's been using R3603 for the past 9 years...

---

Well im not exactly guessing here , this tubing is also used for water based inks used for printing . Ive asked a buddy that actualy use this at his work the answer i got was that the tygon beverage tubing B-44-3 dose not discolor from the water based ink and washes perfectly clean/clear . Now having said this i still not saying its the best choice or that the make up of the coolant and dyes we use wont efect the tubing diferantly than the water base inks . I am say its worth looking further into ! Im looking forward to your final analysis on this and just want to see all possible avenues explored !

Watching this thread. I was thinking of going with the old standby, Tygon R3603, but now I'm reconsidering thanks to Marci. :p:

I use tygon R3603, I use nothing but Distilled water in my loop, it has been now 3 months (well about 3 days shy) and there is no clouding on the new bits of tubed used and there is NO growth in my loop.
I wonder if people having lights inside thier loops effect Growth and/or Clouding? As I have none.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Timmay

I use tygon R3603, I use nothing but Distilled water in my loop, it has been now 3 months (well about 3 days shy) and there is no clouding on the new bits of tubed used and there is NO growth in my loop.
I wonder if people having lights inside thier loops effect Growth and/or Clouding? As I have none.

---

I'm willing to wager people with CCFLs have more problems with algae than those with 'dark' cases. Sunlight isn't really needed for photosynthesis, right? Just any sort of light at all would seem a harbinger of algae growth to me. I think in general it's a wise idea to put a few drops of a biocide in your loop (eg- PT Nuke).

What about if someone put in a UV light... To kill the bugs???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Timmay

What about if someone put in a UV light... To kill the bugs???

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Haha, I don't really know what effect UV has on algae growth, although I assume it wouldn't be positive. I mean people with normal, non-UV CCFLs (blue, green, white, etc.) should look into an anti-algae solution if they haven't already.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeus

Now in what sizes does it come, where can we get it and how much will it set us back?

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here in the US 1/2 I.D.Tygon 2075 $ 4.31 FT

Damn, that's ridiculously expensive. I'm going to buy 20 feet of Masterkleer and cry. :(

Seriously, what do you guys think of ClearFlex, anyway?

UV is what grows algae. The whole idea behind black tubing is to block out UV. All that CCFL and LED stuff is what promotes biological growth. Nothing's like a perfectly dark case.

Tygon 2075. Minimum order costs $43.10 for 10 feet. I guess I am headed that direction, but I really don't like that 1/8" thin wall, compared to my usual 1/4" thick wall.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IanY

Tygon 2075. Minimum order costs $43.10 for 10 feet. I guess I am headed that direction, but I really don't like that 1/8" thin wall, compared to my usual 1/4" thick wall.

---

What tubing where you usein that had 1/4 wall ? tygon 3603 is 1/8 wall

o and UV sterilizer bulbs do kill Algae as well as bacteria ! plant life needs the visable light spectrum mainly the reds - violet or 1700K-10000Kelvin ! im not sure where we would cat. the UV leds/tubes we use being that there just within the visable spectrum or the blue , green or even red leds/tubes as there not full or wide spectrum (sun light at high noon is about 5200 Kelvin and ideal for plant growth , alge growth although a plant need less) but i dont think they would be a big concern compared to say sun light from a nearby window or the light from a RGB monitor thats about 6500K that would .

Interesting thread. Thanks for all the work put into it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Subsider

What tubing where you usein that had 1/4 wall ? tygon 3603 is 1/8 wall

o and UV sterilizer bulbs do kill Algae as well as bacteria ! plant life needs the visable light spectrum mainly the reds - violet or 1700K-10000Kelvin ! im not sure where we would cat. the UV leds/tubes we use being that there just within the visable spectrum or the blue , green or even red leds/tubes as there not full or wide spectrum (sun light at high noon is about 5200 Kelvin and ideal for plant growth , alge growth although a plant need less) but i dont think they would be a big concern compared to say sun light from a nearby window or the light from a RGB monitor thats about 6500K that would .

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Actually I found out that not only am I wrong, its that the wall is not even 1/8. I found out, much to my dismay, that the one I use has 3/32 thickness.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/ty1id3odlatu.html

Tygon 1/2" with 5/8" OD is crap. Save your money! That :banana::banana::banana::banana: kinks like mad.

Tygon 1/2" with 3/4" OD is good stuff. Very sticky, flexible, but expensive.

Clearflex 1/2" with 3/4" OD is also good stuff. Not as sticky, but just as flexible as Tygon 1/2 / 3/4 and half the price.

Local hardware store tubing will even work. Dirt cheap, but most of it is crap too and kink prone. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeus

Now in what sizes does it come, where can we get it and how much will it set us back?

---

mcmaster.com is your friend, they seem to stock all varieties of tygon and I _really_ doubt they'll ever be out of stock.

I would consider Tygon Silver Antimicrobial instead of 2075.
http://www.petrastechshop.com/1id3odtysian.html

There is no need for that heavy chemical resistance 2075 provide, but antimicrobial tubing may let get away with pure distilled water and this is a good thing, as i personally hate to mix any of that additive stuff into my loop,
poisoning and contaminating it.
Tygon Silver is also plasticizer-free and has low water absorption rate , the main two factors which,presumably, affect tube staining over time.

I don't want to jump to conclusions yet. Marci still hasn't said which of the two would be the best for us.

Ah, finally, it seems I was correct on polyurethane tubing ;) If you don't like the wall thickness or whatever, search on mcmaster.com for polyurethane tubing, they have the 7/16 that some people prefer, as well as the 1/2. And IanY, if you go shopping there you might want to get 1 inch braid reinforced tubes and 1 inch barbs as well, shipping isn't too cheap ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cronos

I would consider Tygon Silver Antimicrobial instead of 2075.
http://www.petrastechshop.com/1id3odtysian.html

There is no need for that heavy chemical resistance 2075 provide, but antimicrobial tubing may let get away with pure distilled water and this is a good thing, as i personally hate to mix any of that additive stuff into my loop,
poisoning and contaminating it.
Tygon Silver is also plasticizer-free and has low water absorption rate , the main two factors which,presumably, affect tube staining over time.

---

Well, ok. But in my case and many people I know, the staining can be cleaned out with a scrubber and the tubing goes back to almost perfection.
It is a film rather than a stain in my case(s).
I had the same sort of film with hydrix, pentosine, zerex, regular GM antifreeze.
All mixtures were less than 7% additive and 93% or more pure distilled. It happened with all the above additives using Masterkleer and clearflex.

I think it may be plasticiser or something in the tubing reacting with water (as I heard reports that even with pure distilled people get the same film.)
unlikely, but could it be acrylics and Delrin? even copper?

Here is my current soon-to-be-replaced loop:
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6...inside1qs9.jpg

Notice the long tubing piece going from the radiator on top to the reservoir in the bottom.
It was two months ago. Now all the tubing is stained except the long piece.
I have some hypothesis explaining this phenomena, but none convincing enough.

I have tygon R-3603, its about 4 months old and is very cloudy. Trying to clean it atm. Subscribd

Same here, Im so sick of getting new tubing every few months >:-(

Hey on mcmaster.com they have "generic" polyurethane tubing too, and its 2.3 per foot I think. Its just like masterkleer is to tygon r3603.

if you want to clean your tubing easily, heres how.

use Scrubbing bubbles.
let it sit in the tube for about 10 minutes.
let it soak in water for a hour.
soaking in water lets any soapy residue come out.

clean. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kunaak

if you want to clean your tubing easily, heres how.

use Scrubbing bubbles.
let it sit in the tube for about 10 minutes.
let it soak in water for a hour.
soaking in water lets any soapy residue come out.

clean. :D

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ha.. ha.. funny?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

ha.. ha.. funny?

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sorry dude, no joke here.

it really works.
I've been doing it for about 2 years.

saw it on the OC forums a long time ago, used it about a year after I saw it, when I finally had some tubing that needed a serious cleaning.

works great.

makes it look about 90% new.

if you know a better way, let me see it.
I'll definatly try it.

I'll try to get my hands on some polyurethane tubing (tygon 2075 is PUR stuff ;)) and I'll see what it does.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...22&postcount=3

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...20&postcount=2

look at post 2 and 3.

see, not only me using scrubbing bubbles.
this tricks been around for awhile now.

I am amazed I actually came across this pic... thats pretty crazy.

to K:

I like the cleaner idea.

I'm going to start following AussieJester's recommendation.

He uses Harpic, which is a toilet bowl cleaner. Its the same exact product as Lysol toilet bowl cleaner sold in the USA, just that Reckitt Benckiser (the manufacturer) has a differentiated global branding strategy, using the Lysol brand only in the US and the Harpic brand in the rest of the world.

Lysol Toilet Bowl Cleaner (the one without bleach) is sold in every supermarket for dirt cheap.

AussieJester says that his tubes stay clean for over a year, and he uses plain tap water with no additives in his loops.

I am not saying it doesnt work, I'm just curious what affect it has on the tubing itself.

scrubbing bubbles work, but it will leave your tubing yellow hue to it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by situman

scrubbing bubbles work, but it will leave your tubing yellow hue to it.

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thats what i was refering to.. personally, unless your are using tygon its just better to buy more tubing than to clean it.

Left mine soaking in water and washing-up liquid for 24h or so. Adding boiling water now and again and they have come quite clean. But when they dry there are still some ''milky'' patches. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

thats what i was refering to.. personally, unless your are using tygon its just better to buy more tubing than to clean it.

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Bad for the environment......
Ever thought about the PVC sitting in the dump, poisoning the earth? Or the PVC going into the incinerators, releasing dioxin and other poisonous gases?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by serialk11r

Bad for the environment......
Ever thought about the PVC sitting in the dump, poisoning the earth? Or the PVC going into the incinerators, releasing dioxin and other poisonous gases?

---

Or how about that forum boy, stitting at his PC? What about all the oil that is burned, releasing CO2 into th environment and driving existing prices up, to power his forum whoreage? What about his watercooled PC that eats up far more energy than air cooling? Maybe we should all use cloth napkins, glass cups, and start annoying everyone about PVC on every thread that even mentions tubing choices?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Peanut

Or how about that forum boy, stitting at his PC? What about all the oil that is burned, releasing CO2 into th environment and driving existing prices up, to power his forum whoreage? What about his watercooled PC that eats up far more energy than air cooling? Maybe we should all use cloth napkins, glass cups, and start annoying everyone about PVC on every thread that even mentions tubing choices?

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Sorry, I was being an :banana: :banana: :banana:
The thing is, I think we should work together to phase out PVC. I didn't know any better, and bought masterkleer, but next time I will get polyurethane tubing. The production of PVC creates all this hydrochloric acid, it makes a bunch of toxic chemicals go everywhere, and its done because its cheap and useful...
I mean, we're pwning the environment real bad already but doing something for the good of everyone's health is not a bad thing is it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by serialk11r

Bad for the environment......
Ever thought about the PVC sitting in the dump, poisoning the earth? Or the PVC going into the incinerators, releasing dioxin and other poisonous gases?

---

Make sure you don't have any pvc in your house or in your use, then lecture us. You are doing much more damage to the environment then pvc tubbing in your pc would so you can cut your pretend ideology before you make a complete idiot of yourself and start with the things that can actually make a difference if you are so interested in the well being of our environment. But I don't think you give a rats ass about the environment, I think you are just just picking a fight and starting yet another pointless argument and flame war because thats what you do around here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by epion2985

wrong forums, go spread your hippie-liberal-douche sierra club guilt somewhere else. And make sure you don't have a single piece of pvc in your house or in your use because you are killing the dolphins and butterflies....

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I have masterkleer, WHAT NOW!!!! WHAT NOW!!!!!
Anyways, saint gobain said PVC isn't the right stuff for watercooling (or what marci described to them :rolleyes:)

edited my post above on a more serious note.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by epion2985

edited my post above on a more serious note.

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Sorry, I just felt like it :p: But I also mentioned, what of the risks to your health? I remember nn_step showing a pic of a torch burning up tubing... If that was him, ugh... dioxin...

I used Scrubbing Bubbles on my MCW6002 block and it would work wonders on cleaning the inside. I have just used a bit of dishwashing detergent on a small piece of cloth rammed down the tubing on a coathanger to take the film right off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Sorry, I just felt like it :p: But I also mentioned, what of the risks to your health? I remember nn_step showing a pic of a torch burning up tubing... If that was him, ugh... dioxin...

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I see the powers that be in the Republic of Kalifornia have successfully brainwashed you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Omastar

I see the powers that be in the Republic of Kalifornia have successfully brainwashed you.

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Hmmm... Okay then, hold some PVC pipe over the stove and enjoy the bioaccumulative toxins and carcinogens! I hear its better than pot!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Hmmm... Okay then, hold some PVC pipe over the stove and enjoy the bioaccumulative toxins and carcinogens! I hear its better than pot!

---

Do you know exactly how much PVC-based plastic tubing affects the environment? The impact is NOTHING compared to the rate at which deforestation and over-fishing are happening now. Why not concentrate on that? I mean, don't you think big commercial chemical labs who use Tygon in vast quantities know how to dispose of it properly? There are likely ordinances that dictate how tubing that carried chemical agents can be disposed of, even after sterilization in an autoclave. I'm sure they don't just walk down to the BP and toss nine thousand feet of old tubing in a dumpster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Omastar

Do you know exactly how much PVC-based plastic tubing affects the environment? The impact is NOTHING compared to the rate at which deforestation and over-fishing are happening now. Why not concentrate on that? I mean, don't you think big commercial chemical labs who use Tygon in vast quantities know how to dispose of it properly? There are likely ordinances that dictate how tubing that carried chemical agents can be disposed of, even after sterilization in an autoclave. I'm sure they don't just walk down to the BP and toss nine thousand feet of old tubing in a dumpster.

---

Why did you quote my latest post, about the health effects?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Why did you quote my latest post, about the health effects?

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Because you keep going on about the gases that are released by burning PVC pipe. Anyone dumb enough to do that needs a swift beating. My point is you're making a mountain out of a mole-hill. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IanY

UV is what grows algae. The whole idea behind black tubing is to block out UV. All that CCFL and LED stuff is what promotes biological growth. Nothing's like a perfectly dark case.

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I heard UV is used to eliminate bacteria. I read an article about a week ago that was about building a breadbox with UV lights built in. Using this breadbox, the bread lasted much longer and didn't grow the mould that grew in the bread that was in the box without UV light.

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Originally Posted by Omastar

Because you keep going on about the gases that are released by burning PVC pipe. Anyone dumb enough to do that needs a swift beating. My point is you're making a mountain out of a mole-hill. ;)

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Yes, the gases are very toxic, and carcinogenic. The plasticizer seeps out into places where you don't want it.

Don't feed the Trolls please. :slap:

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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

Don't feed the Trolls please. :slap:

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I know, but it's awfully tempting.

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Originally Posted by epion2985

Make sure you don't have any pvc in your house or in your use, then lecture us. You are doing much more damage to the environment then pvc tubbing in your pc would so you can cut your pretend ideology before you make a complete idiot of yourself and start with the things that can actually make a difference if you are so interested in the well being of our environment. But I don't think you give a rats ass about the environment, I think you are just just picking a fight and starting yet another pointless argument and flame war because thats what you do around here.

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Must be a republican. Pity.

On a more serious note: has a consensus been made on what type of tubing should be used to not have clouding/staining problems (and not kink like crazy and be flexible enough for serious bends)?

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Originally Posted by ranker

On a more serious note: has a consensus been made on what type of tubing should be used to not have clouding/staining problems (and not kink like crazy and be flexible enough for serious bends)?

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Not that I know of. We're waiting to hear back from Marci on what St. Gobain have told him.

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Originally Posted by serialk11r

Hmmm... Okay then, hold some PVC pipe over the stove and enjoy the bioaccumulative toxins and carcinogens! I hear its better than pot!

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Originally Posted by serialk11r

Sorry, I just felt like it :p: But I also mentioned, what of the risks to your health? I remember nn_step showing a pic of a torch burning up tubing... If that was him, ugh... dioxin...

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If you are burning PVC tubing inside your house with a torch and melting it over the stove you are a moron and you have bigger problems then dioxin...

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Originally Posted by ranker

Must be a republican.

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Actually no. Though democrats are no better. I don't believe in subscribing my vote to any party regardless of who is in charge or what choices they make. My vote depends on my opinion on the issue, not a political party's.