lol to the coma guy that woke up and doesn't know what's going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by insurgent
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lol to the coma guy that woke up and doesn't know what's going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by insurgent
wow, who would buy a card that's both better performing and more expensiveQuote:
Originally Posted by MrDiaz
Terrible sarcasm...Quote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
Clearly you don't understand a thing
5970 is %70 more TDP, %75 more $$ and %40 better performing than 5870. Do you consider it a good card?
Cos, GTX 480 seems to be %33 more TDP (it's 250W not 300), %25 more $$ and %10 better performing than 5870. From where I stand it doesn't look incredibly worse. Thing is, when you move towards high end, there is diminishing marginal utility for every $1 and every 1W you spend.
Granted it doesn't look like the best card out there. But it also doesn't look like the worst release ever either.
GTX 480 TDP is 295W, where are you getting 250W from? And sure the 5970 is a good card (2 actually but w/e) but who owns of one these? 1% of the tech community probably. I consider the 5850 the best card out there right now, 5870 coming in closely.
I don't see why you would pay that much for the 5970 unless you are doing professional work that would require its computing power. Anything else are bragging rights.
difficult to compare prices and currency ratio's, it is country depending, I just found both cards you specified from Sapphire below your lowest price limit in my region.Quote:
Originally Posted by prava
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/zoeken/?keyword=5870
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/zoeken/?keyword=5970
to see if Fermi will be a success we'll have to wait for the final reviews and prices. All we know today is that it has a huge die size against ATI 58xx series and a more expensive board design which isn't good for a price war for nvidia, not to mention the so far leaked performance and power consumption but that has to be proven yet.
Mate i hope techpower is seriously wrong here. Only +7 increase in performance over a 5870, which is 6 months older...? Come on, after all the anticipation, hype, build up it best perform atleast twice of that techpower are reporting or i will be massively disappointed :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
LOL, nice joke :).Quote:
Originally Posted by LesGrossman
You're right. What really matters is idle consumption (GFX are idle like 90% of the time anyway). Noise/temp can be an issue though...Quote:
Originally Posted by Picao84
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDiaz
It's not 295W, it's 250W, check VR-Zone. I get your point about nobody needing such cards (I don't) but well, this is a high-end launch. GTX 470 doesn't seem that bad from a price / performance viewpoint. Its performance might not be as good as 5870 but it has several advantages over it such as PhysX, CUDA and superior tessellation performance. Also it's cheaper than 5870 and I believe its price is justified.
Charlie said it's 70C. On idle 2D clocks. On fan set to %70. lolz
Quote:
Originally Posted by duploxxx
There will be no price war. The cars will all have prices that will compare with performance (comparative to ATI).
expect price gouging at first until supply meets demand.
Exactly. I have personally never had any real driver issues with nVidia while ATI's 4xxx and ESPECIALLY the 5xxx ones have given me a lot of aggravation and problems. Add in PhysX support for Batman and Mirror's Edge, as well as a even a bit better performance (let alone the possibility of 15%-20%+ that still remains) and the deal suddenly looks very sweet after having sold my 5870 to fund a Fermi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
MrDiaz blasphemy, someone would pay more for a better driver, superior performance, and extra features!? What kind of heretical practice IS this?! That's what I'd be saying if I believed in your ways... :p: .
We won't know ANYTHING until benchmarks have been posted, so all this is pure especulation... You can't tell me the 470 is close to the 5870, or the other way around. I'm just speaking from the "technical specs" and rumoured prices we've seen so far.
I'm in no way diminishing nVidia either, I'd love to see some serious kick-ass performance gains, but like I said, if this means an "unfair" price raise then screw that. And we all know nVidia and their pricing philosophy... I cannot recall a card they've released that has been priced fairly, they are extremely pricey.
Just my opinion, you can take it like a grain of salt ;)
let me make a prediction from the things we know (or we think we know). we will see new nvidia dx11 cards in 4 months after the realease of 480, i mean replacement of 480 not 420 or 430 kind of cards.
What features? Again, you're looking at it from YOUR point of view, YOUR preferences, YOUR gains. I myself have an nVidia card (8800 GT lol) had it since release date and had zero problems with it. Only issue with ATI is driver support, but since that's software, there is always hope for improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger
I mean it's crazy, when the 5xxxx series came out, they COMPLETELY destroyed the entire nVidia lineup, despite their "drivers issue". Now FERMI cards that bring barely any performance gains for significantly more $$ have people going insane over this.
Of course there will be new cards... different chips. However a "replacement" is unlikely
@neliz on Beyond3D about 480SPs from vr-zone forum.
So... it means hummm... 480SPs for GTX 470??? :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by neliz
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...postcount=4078
i mean a replacement.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDiaz
Yeah that ain't gonna happen :P
have my single 5xxx now for about 4-5 months playing latest games, never had ANY driver issue and i always update after a few days of release to the latest version, there are always a few bugs you find those for ALL vendors.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger
what are people always complaining about on single card setup, sure it isn't the person behind the keyboard and mouse:confused:
actually before my 8800gts512 died i play baa with it now i am with a 5870 didnt see any difference. also i dont have driver issues. actually i was waiting for 480 to upgrade my 8800 but because it died early i bought 5870 and begin to wait 480 to replace 5870 (gain or not everybody has different ideas but i like phsyx) but with these specs i will continue to use my 5870.
you think so like that but i am pretty sure about this. like atis r600
Actually, they might. When the 5800 was delayed nvidia announced the refreshed 5900 within a quarter of the 5800 hitting the streets.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDiaz
I can't remember nvidia making any mention of the 5900 until after the 5800 had launched.
Yeah but that's not a replacement...
r600 was a total replacement it not necessary for company to say we are replacing important thing is what they do
I don't think the R600 is the right card to make this case, as ATI made two low end parts and a few laptop parts. There was around a six month gap between the 2900 and the 3800, so I'd still count that as a refresh. ATI might have pushed the 3k series in early, but they didn't dump and burn the 2k series to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by kromosto
anyone want to take a wild guess as to when tsmc will have their 28nm process ready for nvidia's shrinked fermi ?????
ill start and say Q4 2011
Q4 2010 or Q1 2011. Risk production very early Q4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
From what we have been hearing, TSMC's 28nm process is quite mature already (~60% yields @ LP and ~25% @ HKMG / HP) considering the resources that were dedicated to it when their 40nm process tanked.
I said it should not that it will. See the difference? Yeah, read between the lines smart guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by LesGrossman
ok my bad i didnt mean r600 i mean x1800 :) old days and i am an old man just sorry about my memory
Tsk, don't encourage goldentiger, he'll post his list again, he's done it when nobody even asked. I'm sure the people with cards that died on that last Nv driver agree with you, quality drivers! meh
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
allright... and at what point in the production did we start to hear about 40nm problem at tsmc ????
Over 6 months before the 5xxx series ever launched, first general indicators could be considered the weak supply of 4770's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
ATI launched their HD 4770 in April 2009. The first rumors of low yields from what I can see in Google News were from December / January 2008.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
I had nearly forgotten that as well, because the 1900 was really strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by kromosto
If nvidia can fix the problems then this card will be a must have, if a refresh has the raw performance with all the visual enhancements it offers via transparent AA ect I'd sleep in a tent to get one early.
If those memory clock speeds are true that is quite interesting. I take 1 of 2 things from this. A) GF100s architecture doesn't require high bandwidth or B) Nvidia epic failed with the memory controller.
Hopefully it is the former. If true, this is the fist time in a while where Nvidias flagship didn't have rediculous memory bandwidth in comparision to ATIs line ( 2900 being the exception with its 512bit bus ) Hell the GTX 280 has more memory bandwidth than the GTX 470 if this info is to be believe but again as I mentioned perhaps this isn't a big issue in light of the architecture changes. Interesting none the less...
As far as core and shader clock, 1400 seems reasonable. Those numbers would put the 480 at roughly 2x the GTX 285... at least on paper (doesn't this sound familiar lol... ; eg 240 - 480 CC, similar clock speeds ect )
At least they priced them with some sense, and this isnīt very common in the green side.
BTW Would be great to know how many ROPs and TMUs they finally have.
Going on a 480 SP GTX480, it would have 48 ROPs and 60 TMUs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dami3n
For the 448 SP GTX470, it would have 48 ROPs and 56 TMUs.
512 SPs would yield 64 TMUs and 48 ROPs.
What a pity that I only have a 1000w psu ffs
If the GTX 470 has a cut down memory interface, how would it retain the same number of ROPs? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElSel10
Remember, on the GF100 architecture, ROPs, the memory controllers and L2 cache need to scale in a linear fashion to one another. ROPs come in groups of 8, L2 cache in blocks of 128KB and memory controllers in 64-bit increments.
Problem is that you're talking strictly shader power - in terms of TMUs and ROPs, theyre the same or lower than the GTX 285...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickenfeed
But that can mean anything... what structure and die size are the test chips at? Obviously that would be excellent for a 300+mm2 complex test structure. Not so hot for a 50mm2 dram test structure ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
Quote:
Originally Posted by duploxxx
... I haven't posted anything when not asked about it. Seriously, you don't need to lie to try to bolster some imaginary position. I posted it exactly ONCE... and the thread I was having a conversation with someone in was locked, so I posted it into the next section of the Fermi thread. That is not "posting again, doing it when no one asks" repeatedly as you imply. Long story short, I tried two different 5870's with two different setups, each in each one, no dice: lots of rendering errors, cruddy control panel, many glitches/annoyances, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by insurgent
No need to be insulting toward people... it's not the "person behind the keyboard and mouse". Driver issues don't affect EVERY SINGLE LAST PERSON who has a product always, as anyone who works with computers on more than an MS Word level knows. I assume since you're on these forums you already knew that, of course.
Oh, I agree. But with risk production still ~5 months away and volume production 8-9 months away, 60-65% on a DRAM test structure and 25% on a HP part is encouraging all things considered.Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird
the saying "epic fail" is getting annoying already, next time i see epic fail im going to break my keyboard on my face LOLLLL.........
on a serious note, seeing how the memory will make minimal performance increase for most people, im sure nvidia chose lower frequency gddr5 to keep cost down, thats my guess.
so the 60% yield are on a dram test chip and not some semi complicated process???? we might have to expect some more problem then .....
I would expect 4000 (quad) for the top model.
ok not 58xx driver problems again :mad: its fermi thread so lets stick to topic i am really excited and don't want to hear any ati related cr_p :ROTF:
XFX GTX480 & GTX 470 pictured via Hardware Canucks
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/news/...ards-pictured/
Source is Expreview...
Give credit where it's due.Quote:
This morning EXPreview discovered a few shots of the XFX retail GTX 480 and GTX 470 cards, the latter of which uses a fairly standard looking dual slot cooler.
"GeForce GTX 480 : 480 SP, 700/1401/1848MHz core/shader/mem, 384-bit, 1536MB, 250W TDP, US$499
GeForce GTX 470 : 448 SP, 607/1215/1674MHz core/shader/mem, 320-bit, 1280MB, 225W TDP, US$349
* The intended GF100 has 512 SP clocked at 725/1450/1050MHz with 295W TDP. It should still be released in the future but just not now. For this launch, GTX 480 has 480 SP with clocks lowered to 700/1401/1848MHz at 250W TDP."
http://vr-zone.com/articles/nvidia-g...aled/8635.html
I looked, through todays posts not very hard I admit but I didn't find this posted. If I repeat sorry.
Yes fair enough considering shader power alone isn't all that matters. Based on those numbers though if I am not mistaken this is where we stand. These numbers only say so much about performance / potential so this is strictly for interests sake.Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
HD 5870 (850core/1200GDDR5)
Pixel Fillrate : 27.2 GPixel/s (850*32)
Texture Fillrate : 68.0 GTexel/s (850*80)
Memory Bandwidth : 153.6 GB/s ((1200*4*256)/8)
GTX 480 (700core/924GDDR5)
Pixel Fillrate : 33.6 GPixel/s (700*48)
Texture Fillrate : 42.0 GTexel/s (700*60)
Memory Bandwidth : 177.4 GB/s ((924*4*384)/8)
Again doesn't say a whole lot but interesting none the less.
@s1nykuL
Thanks for that. Further supports the possibility of a 480Ultra down the road.
I'm curious to find out if the fins visible on the top are infact alluminum to aid cooling. If so wowza! However if they are the normal 10.5inch size that is a plus. The 5870/90 length kinda sucks. If they can manage to cool a 250watt TDP unit on a 10.5inch package WITH reasonable accoustics, I'll be right impressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDiaz
The metallic cover has definitely something to do with the heat dissipation.
Here is a visual comparison -- few millimeters shorter than HD5870:
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/9365/75828753.jpg
In case it wasn't known yet: http://twitter.com/hwl_andis/status/10716665134
One of the editors at HardwareLuxx.de received Fermi today but he has no driver.
€dith: OK, they DO have drivers.
the heatpipes extend pretty high compared to ATIs cooler. im sure that can add an extra 15-20% more fins.
also they have a whole slot of exhaust instead half a slot.
and their fan spins the opposite way, it must be Australian.
Nice nice...Quote:
Originally Posted by FischOderAal
Nope, on GF100 the ROPs are independent from the memory bus, there was a very in depth article on just this, I don't remember where it was though. Perhaps somebody can link to it?Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
well on the 5870 it serves a purpose, room for displayport which is used in most Ģ300+ monitors and some Ģ200+ one's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
Clocks are... clearly, but the ROPs are still linked to the MC.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElSel10
i knew, im just comparing cooling differences. im actually not sure if i dont like how theres just 2 duel DVIs on the 480Quote:
Originally Posted by Helloworld_98
I thought there was mini-hdmi or hdmi as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
edit: also by the fact that XFX put a sticker over that supposed 'cooling area' I don't think it's for cooling.
If someone didnt noticed yet, here it goes: http://twitter.com/sampsa_kurri/status/10723903057
Sampsa Kurri got one also! There is it..
http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c54102/x2_e43f23
there might be at the top, but i cant tellQuote:
Originally Posted by Helloworld_98
and that sticker i think is only on the 470, which dosnt have external heatpipes. and may be using a much smaller heatsink
Holy Jebus..what the hell are the specs?:confused:
I think NV will mask the specs even from GPUZ.:down: Hell, you won't even know the specs AFTER you buy it. :shrug:
GPU-Z is a database. It can't read specs...Quote:
Originally Posted by Your_Boss
GTX 470 and 480 use different coolers.
Of course it can. It reads the core speeds and memory speeds. Everything else is database.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vardant
Wheres my fermi 512sp at 750 mhz?
Wasn't that the intended? I want to see benchmarks of that not the 'dud' 480sp version
There are no benchmarks of the real Fermi because its power level is Over 9000.Quote:
Originally Posted by orangekiwii
So a week from launch no one has yet any idea on the physical specs or the clock speeds of GTX 480 or 470? How are people running these benchmarks anyway...with leaked beta drivers?
sub 1000mhz memory sounds like they used cheap chips (on a 500$ card i hope not), or it means it can overclock the memory like a beast. opinions?
They've got drivers, don't worry.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidReactor
Can somebody tell me how much profit nvidia and there AIB's will make off of each card at these current prices?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dami3n
Nvidia isnt able to price these cards much more considering the prices ATI is selling parts for. Nvidia is bound and shackled by their lack luster performance. Ati's selling prices have a death grip on nvidias bottom line.:brick:
WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentential
512 vs 480. That's **only** 6% worth.
End of the World because nvidia ships a card with less than all shaders?
Broken card? Give me a break. 8800GT was **only** 112 out of 128 shaders, and one of best selling cards.
The point is this; after all this time THIS is the best they can do? Really? Really? A half assed card that has to be harvested because the yields still blow after 3 respins. You gotta be kidding me; even the RV520 and R600 weren't this bad, neither was the NV30 for that matter; at least they could be binned for a full part!Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
Also ffs about the 8800GT; Ok Fine its 112 shaders and was harvested down from 128; fair enough. That said it was also single slot and didn't :banana::banana::banana::banana: out wattage like fat-bastard on a burrito binge as Fermi appears to do. If a 480 part is the best that nvidia can do then god help them when Hecatoncheres comes out this summer.
I am hoping you are referring to the article I think you are....because it clearly states ROPs, L2 and memory controllers need to be scaled together. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ElSel10
this comment has all the qualitys of an 'Epic Fail' if you ask me, but you didnt ask me ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by HelixPC
http://translate.google.com/translat...tm&sl=tr&tl=en
According to this, Nvidia might have already sold huge numbers of Fermi GPUs as Tesla cards to the Chinese government. Which means a probability of very low availability of GeForce cards.
Epic fail.....epic fail......EPIC FAIL!!!! Can we get that on youtube?!? Oh and does that count as 3 keyboards?:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by HelixPC
According to that it is an excuse not to have many cards at launch!
i dont think you really care about the shaders... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentential
think about it, if a gtx480 would be as fast or faster than a 5970, would you be complaining about parts of the gpu being broken or disabled? i dont think so... people will complain about disabled shader cores, slow memory clocks, high tdps... but what they are really miffed about is the performance which is lower than expected... cause its lower than what nvidia claimed and made everybody expect...
breaking news! ati MIGHT have sold even higher numbers of rv870 gpus to the chinese government!
source
If I'm not mistaken, Fermi's TMUs runs at the shader clock not at the core clock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickenfeed
This actually makes a lot of sense to me, GPUs are capable of hacking much faster than CPUs because of the mathematical nature of GPUs . . . and the Chinese govt. is allegedly quite fond of hacking things.
TMUs run at half the shader clockQuote:
Originally Posted by Lokinhow
Valid and agreed but its more towards me wanting the ability to purchase a full shader part reguardless of what that shader count may be. I do not like paying full price for a broken card.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Yet you will buy a shader disabled 260 and complain about wanting to buy a full shader 480, geez the irony...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentential
hahahahahha.... Oh boy I love them Fermi stories
Good luck in getting anything without at least one transistor dinked on it. That's why some things are tested and cherry picked for certain applications. The things with the least dings gets the most dollars. Nvidia made a really big chip. It is damn impossible under the current tech to not have dinked transistors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentential
Well, then pay 2.5k+ for the tesla and you get the full part for the full price I think... Plus, as a bonus, you get 3GB of VRAM :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentential
Breaking news, Fermi has been spotted while eating a sandwich. It's not known what was on the sandwich, but Da Fermi seemed to like it.
Source
Holy crap I did not think I could laugh so hard that chips would come out my nose! :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
leave my fermi alone leave him aloneeeeeeee he is gone to China and he likes it there :rofl:
This image from that link just made my day:Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__...silly-eyes.gif
Great. The Chinese government getting more number crunching horsepower. That's always comforting.
Which was mentioned as being 1400 as well so doesn't change a thing :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by -Sweeper_
Not one person can see the innocent side here, from what i can see, Crysis Wars servers are full of NK and Chinamen.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlawleZ
Welcome to MESA my communist friends :yepp:
North Korea? Do they have freely available internet even? That country is more dictatorial than China regarding information and citizens overseeing.Quote:
Originally Posted by DosDuoNo
I honestly doubt NK people could play on a game's server hosted in Europe or the US...
South Korea is another thing completely thought, so maybe you saw people from there instead.