Cayman PRO/XT in nov:
"Touch me, I'm reality"
GTX580 in nov/dec:
"Wait for me, I'm a dream"
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Cayman PRO/XT in nov:
"Touch me, I'm reality"
GTX580 in nov/dec:
"Wait for me, I'm a dream"
Is there even any pictures of Cayman floating around???Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
The PR slides stating Late November, yesQuote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
Thats it, so all we have from either is PR at this point, you can feel the luv in the air...Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
Just because they do leak control really well doesn't mean it doesn't exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
I think both cards will be out before Christmas, if that's what that matters...
I never tried to make such a claim, I was just trying to get up to speed on what all the reality/imagination pov was about but there's nothing but PR info from both camps, ironic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macadamia
Humm I have to call you on that one. There is the planning and execution of the 6870 on amd's side. That after only rumors up to the very last day. This time there are official slides open and motivated claiming Cayman is out in November. I think its a lot more than PR.Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
Same time it means Nvidia's rumors need to be taken into considerarion as well. The difference is Nvidia remains rumours but amd is as near fact as can be.
This is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitriman
Remeber, we already have Cayman's little brother, Barts, on the market. On Barts XT, you get near Cypress XT performance at 50-watts less energy consumption. That shows that AMD has room to stretch their legs on Cayman. This information, combined with the information on AMD's briefing slides should tell anyone with half a brain that AMD means business and that Cayman is not just a myth.
I guess we'll see who's right in a few weeks. ;)
I'm sure they both exist, I have not reason to think otherwise. It's just the semantics that one is more real than the other, its a bit silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitriman
We've gone from arguing over PR slides to arguing who's PR is more believable but we really don't really have any tangible info about the real deals yet.
Its funny that the less information there is available the more trivial and nit picky the arguments get...
It's not really semantics
One is an official slide with a roadmap, and AMD stating Cayman is out late november, go ahead and publish that on your review
The other is from Fudzilla...
Big difference
Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
so gtx580 is real ??? what proof to you have???
a black gpu cooler ??? how's that for proof??? is it written on it gtx580 at least???
model name in drivers and nvidia's page ... so it must be real ... but they did remove the name shortly afterward right??? so why would they remove the name of something that exist ... ahh yes ... the good ol surprise we got a mid life rebranded kicker product technique .. and all of that info came days before barts launch ... coincidental or not you decide ...
so cayman is more real because we saw lots of slides .. and bart is as real as people on the forum who got one on launch day ...
I have no doubts gtx 580 will exist at some point. And what performance both it and Cayman will have is irrelevant to my argument. What I was stating is that AMD has been executing its announcements with very little deviation. Nvidia has not made any official annoucements, there have only been rumors of annoucements so far. And previous history does not help its cause when it comes to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
To be fair though, the only thing late has been fermi cards as of late and earlier generations they have been on time. If we look at the past, g200, g80, g70 and g60 were on time and in the cases of g80 generation, AMD was 6 months compared to NV. And the product delivered from hype (r600) was pretty bad(I think worse than fermi even as it used more power and was alot slower) and AMD still made a pretty good recovery after.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitriman
Which is why I do not discard a 580 at all. Especially if its 384 bit 512 cuda. I did think 512 bit 768 cuda and 128 tmu like some rumors claimed was completely impossible but those rumors seem to have died out.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
Its quite feasible for 512 cuda gtx580 max 300 watts to pop up and 15-20% faster than 480 is quite expected after 6 months in the workshop. Lets hope it happens soon!
PS- Nvidias target should be 5970. If they can match or even beat it with one chip at 40nm, then cudos for them really. Fermi is very held back at 40nm.
That can also be said as why would they even bother to add a product id if it didn't exist, glass half full or glass half empty mentality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
Its strangely difficult to go between ATI and Nvidia threads and not get drawn into semantics. We'll just have to wait and see what happens, as far as I can tell its pretty much a sure thing cayman will launch(according to the pr) the question now is Nvidia going to ambush the launch(alluded to by the pr).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitriman
This post brings back flashbacks.....of Fermi '09 pre release talks for some reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
The first thing, and the most important was T&L !!! :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol
Meh. Nvidia is attempting to do what it failed in 480? And that is "being the fastest single GPU around?" As far as I can recall 480 WAS the fastest single GPU around. It didn't fail on performance. Hell, compared to the AMD offerings it didn't fail on price either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
It failed on power consumption, and it failed hugely. It also failed to be on schedule, and it failed on living up to the hype. The latter two are obviously connected.
Fermi cards' timing has failed so horribly that a great mainstream card they released could keep its spot only for 3 months - why? Because it was overtaken by AMD's NEXT GEN offerings. There is no excuse for this, really.
If this time Nvidia's timing with 580 more or less matches with AMD's timing with Cayman; the card is on par with Cayman on price, performance and power, THEN they will have succeeded.
Also, this is about enthusiast / high end only. Right now Nvidia may not be the way to go at mainstream, but they provide very good and competitive alternatives to AMD, something they achieved with massive price cuts.
omg, nothin new?
No everyone is joying over the GTX580 the world's first 2d 3d-accelerator card.
Not much, although I just caught this in the Xbitslab Review. Emphasis mine
Quote:
A next-generation tessellator from AMD will be implemented in the Cayman GPU (Radeon HD 6900). AMD claims it to be three times as fast as the Cypress’ tessellator. We guess AMD’s engineers will focus on increasing the performance of the tessellator proper in the next implementations, possibly on optimizing the hull shaders. We can expect the future architectures, Southern Islands, Hecatonchires, etc., to bring some innovations into the very design of the tessellation pipeline, like what Nvidia offers in its Fermi architecture where each large array of stream processors has a dedicated tessellator for optimal data threading.
my prediction on the GTX 580 is late march early april
I thought everybody said that it will come on 9th November...Quote:
Originally Posted by stangracin3
no need to get 580. cayman will blow it away
edit: that Xbit lab review on the 6800 series is good, nice find
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...70-hd6850.html
I'll believe it when i see itQuote:
Originally Posted by tbone8ty
580 discussion i believe is a couple threads below this one.
this is a cayman/antilles rumors thread
http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/11/...ips-turn-wild/Quote:
Yes, you heard it right, some AIBs have Cayman chips now, and if everything else holds true to form, they should be on the store shelves across the world in 2-4 weeks. The kits come with a Cayman and some 6Ghz GDDR5, so the memory clocks will end up between 5.5-6GHz.
so thats between 1375-1500mhz right? wow
We need specs, how come if the launch of 69xx is so close ATI/AMD hasn't even released any speculation or information on the specs? They are doing a pretty good job at keeping everybody in the dark.
See: Barts, RV770, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono Detector
They're really good at keeping things secret
My prediction:Quote:
Originally Posted by stangracin3
November: paper launched, reviewer edition
December: very limited availability for christmas shopping spree appereance
January: trickling yet still limited availability
February: good availability
Basically it will be ~2 months behind in good market availability compared to Cayman boards, December vs February. :yepp:
Their secrecy keeping deserves an award i guess, simply mind boggling. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono Detector
From my understanding, they finally tracked down a number of their leaks.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursindonesia
Exactly:Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
2 Days before HD4000 official unveil
Rumour: 480SP (doomed card, nvidia will masacrate "Ati")
Official unveil
800SP
Can't really understand what page 2 is saying, but it seems like the change to 4D is confirmedQuote:
Originally Posted by necronomicon
Bad translation also:
Basically, Cayman is a new architecture compared to Barts which is mostly similar to Cypress...Quote:
"From a risk management point of view , the new framework for the development of the face of GPU core when the size and schedule are very dangerous. If the core size is too large, then it may affect future plans. So the new structure is more in the high-end GPU for fever. "
This is getting interesting
also... wow at document, phenomenal presentation, also we can see how their long term marketing strategy plan is falling into place with the technology being implemented, where there wont be any medium to low end GPU's only performance level up, the rest, will be fusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
Reason for this is that they are either very confident on pre-agreed contracts for OEM manufacturers to build fusion systems (including discrete graphics within the APU, or they're just plain nuts which I don't think is the case to be at all.
The insight and strategic planning from the red team seems to be highly cohesive, and much more comprehensive that the green team's.
The advantages for the red team is that they also run a cpu business, and can allow for dual/combined strategies within different market segments.
This might hopefully make both companies to concentrate on being more competitive (price wise) in the top end graphics segment, and therefore drive prices somewhat lower...
Another eventuality which I do not believe will take place is for Nvidia to lose interest on the high end market, and only focus on commercial and low end graphics...
Are you saying AMD is trying to bully Nvidia out of the high end market?Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroikenshi
nVidia might just do all the work for AMD if they keep doing what they're doing :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
I think its way too early to say that, but the original fermi was a bad start for them. So far, NV release style has been too defensive(they respond to something), rather than offensive(they make a product to respond to what AMD has released). The offense they have put up is the gtx 460 and AMD answered pretty well even though it took a bit of time. NV just putting no pressure on AMD at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by STEvil
It is exactly that, pro-active marketing strategy vs reactive marketing strategy. One dictates and the other counters (also a timing issue).Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
Since the gtx200 series, Nvidia hasn't been leading the market, which is fair as you can't expect the one company to lead the market forever.
However a defensive marketing strategy is build around trumping your opponent's moves regardless of the cost ( cost to produce GTX460 die size vs yields). Nvidia did this to retain market share, and they did a fantastic job taking into account the time constraints to respond after the GTX480 flop. However when you look at the timing factor, there is a six month CIRCA gap between AMD's dev team and Nvidia's, I simply do not think that Nvidia had sufficent time to react yet.
28nm will be different altogether, since both parties were told about 32nm cancellation at the same time, so in theory they also started to plan and develop 28nm architecture roughly at the same time. Like I said before, its mostly a timing issue.
That's kind of a non-sensical statement.. of course one is seen as "more defensive" when it comes after the other one. If you're around a year late for some of your products chances are you are going to be seen as releasing "defensively", given that you know exactly what you're up against because it's in the market already.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
A firm's objective is mostly always the same , MARKET SHARE.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
It's simply the natural order of markets which dictates that companies will try (if within reach) to obtain as high market share if feasibly possible.
I would never say bully, but the high end market even if not most profitable, still brings very good PR for company (e.g. fastest card in the world) (e.g. unparalleled computing power) some of those claims, even if tacky, will still be a phenomenal form of marketing, thus getting more contracts on some of their lower end products (OEM's)
did you check availability of Barts? no paperlaunch and available they will do the same for cayman in a few weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursindonesia
But you just know that some dude with Llano "just gotta have me geforce" is gonna go out and buy a discrete gs430 anyhow...Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroikenshi
Hey, i've got to check back my optimism regarding AMD so nobody will hot stamp my forehead with a certain scarlett letter of fanboy stigma here, haven't i ? :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by duploxxx
Hmm, thinking about that, it means anybody buying APU such as Llano, it will be packaged like a VGA card or CPU ? I think it would be like a CPU package, since the chip itself will take form like a CPU, but it should come with a CD driver, right ? and perhaps a copy of certain promotional game ? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitriman
well, people that buy GPU's usually have a general understanding of "how much they go/how much more they want"Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitriman
gs430 is so discreet I would not doubt that 4 core fusion cpu will be better, not many people will buy discreet just because they want green team, OEM's don;t quite work like that, and low end discreet is aimed just at that segment, OEM
so we'll have to wait 3/4 weeks ?
and if 6970 is as good as it seems, NV will authorize benchers to leak performance tests cause they're late...if they compete well, or leak and adjust their pricing if they don't.
cpu package with drivers for sure though I think they will advertise the gpu class present on die such as 5570 or something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursindonesia
I disagree, people are completely clueless in general. They buy off half remembered recommendations from friends who don't know anything either.Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroikenshi
I still doubt they will have them in reviewers hands until very late november if that is the case. more than likely it will be december.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursindonesia
for good availability i still stand by my earlier statment of late march
Was it you that suggested that they were spreading out different information before the 5xxx series release in order to track down their leaks? Sounds about rightQuote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
im really tired of hearing the "this one has more migabites" argument from those who think they know somethingQuote:
Originally Posted by MrMojoZ
So you don't want the one with the bigger geebees?Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
when a 5450 has 2GB of gddr3 and a 4890 has 1GB, and they guess wrong on which one is better, i give up on helping them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitriman
its true and that is the sole purpose these budget cards have massive memory - adding perceived value to nubcakes. especially on those budget dells running pentiums for 300$.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
i was also thinking of dell xps gaming systems that start at 3000$ and come stock with a 980x and a 5670, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitriman
yeah but is that good?Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
intel isnt giving leaks any chance and leaks stuff themselves before anybody else can... and its working VERY well for them as they get lots of attention and free pr...
leaks arent bad, they are a tool and you just have to be able to control them ;)
shutting them down and not using them at all is stupid imo...
its like not using nuclear power plants because some idiots blew themselves up by not managing one well...
i wonder how big cayman will be...i dont think anybody doubts that it will beat the 580, but the question is how much ati will manage to push the 580 and 570 prices down... could get pretty painful for nvidia, and all that while intel and amd are killing the entry level and lower mainstream gpu segment which is around 1/3 of nvidias gpu volume...
nvidia wants market share over anything it seems, so this would be great news for all of us! its a shame but the days ati gave us great bargains seem to be over now... nvidia seems to be the new price perf king... unvoluntarily without a doubt, but hey, ill take it :D
both the 460 and 470 are awesome and the way it looks right now the 570 will HAVE to be a price perf king as well as a result of atis 6900 price pressure...
sounds about right looking at how nvidia rolled out products lately :DQuote:
Originally Posted by spursindonesia
what do you think about the 570 or whatever they end up calling the cut down 110?
leaks happening too early are bad ... they must happen at the right time ..
so saying all leaks are good is just wrong ... and intel pretty much owns much of all the market so they couldnt care less about leaks .... especially when they are still on top ....
ohh and nvidia the price perf king ... LOLL ... how can they be the king ... the 460 doesnt destroy the 6850 ... let alone the 6870 ... its not a clear win .. and both cards are withing the same price as the competition ... so its a good competition .. nothing else ...
Late March?
Really? Why you think so late?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stangracin3
I think GTX 570 will be a decent card, perhaps performing slightly under the today's GTX 480. I have a gut feeling that in real world gaming, it won't be good enough against Cayman Pro, we'll see.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
I really hope GF110 risk wafers are doing great -if they were actually made in the first place, since GF100 A1 risk wafers burnt them quite bad last year- so we can have plentiful GF110 based cards for christmas, but i'm not holding my breath.
mainly because we have just heard the announcement to the announcement(November, 9) of an announcement(not sure of date yet.) of the card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagleclaw
also i'm still waiting for JHH to hold up the biggest piece of :banana::banana::banana::banana: fake looking card they can make. it seems alot of people have forgotten about the woodscrews. taking place about this time last year.
also the below quote will explain some more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teemax
Hello, this is the AMD Cayman thread.
Please go to one of the GTX580 threads!
Thank you.
Hello, There is no way you can talk about cayman without also talking about the GTX580 in the same thread. think about it. you have to compare launch dates, performance rumors, price, and other random BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by mibo
Now, another spilled beans, but this one seems less convincing compared to the one in GTX 580's thread. Take it with a serious grain of salt, but a guy (which also a member of this forum) in my local forum told that HD 6970 will be priced at US$ 475 & HD 6950 at US$ 400 (Indonesian prices). Using the same formula applied in extrapolating GTX 580 USA MSRP, i estimate the USA MSRP of HD 6970 will be around US$ 429-449, while HD 6950 at ~US$ 349-369. He's just a general member, but quite connected/have good friends with AMD graphic AIBs distros here, often trusted to review newly launched products from those respective distros.
Perhaps i won't bid farewell to posting in this forum so soon, will i ? :D
PS: I hope he comes forward to clarify it himself. ;)
That will be an amazing price if HD6970 is also the performance leader which hopefully it will be.....Quote:
Originally Posted by spursindonesia
got to have some serious performance if they price it that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursindonesia
I have no confirmation whatsoever regarding performance. One thing for sure, AMD cards usually offer better value (performance/$) for the same performance level. And if the cards have good availability & they have manufacturing cost leadership, i won't be surprised if AMD will initiate another round of price war. We shouldn't forget RV770 story and how sensibly AMD was in pricing Cypress based cards in its launch day.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebanik
It should deliver plenty good performance if we extrapolate it from the way it would be priced & the price of its lower tier brother, Bart. But no idea regarding how it compares against its direct competitor.Quote:
Originally Posted by flopper
$450 seems about right for Cayman XT. 5870 was $400, and this is a slightly bigger die.
Looks like 580 will have to undergo a $200 price decrease once the 6900 series is released.
HD5870 2Gb Eyefinity official price was 479$ (no Eyefinity 2Gb from 449$), so I think that HD6970 2Gb, with bigger die size and more expensive GDDR5, will cost even more.
My speculation:
HD6970 2Gb - 479$
HD6950 1Gb - 359$
HD6870 1Gb - 239$
And leave room for no reference cards.
lol I thought you were saying Cayman was going to be March.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stangracin3
I think the 69xx would start from Sub 300$ and a maximum price of 450$ for Reference cards.
ROFL no amd has there act together on the gpu side, and are slowly but steadily getting their ac together in the CPU side. I have a feeling this will be their yearQuote:
Originally Posted by Eagleclaw
btw its not like ive owned only amd and ati. my first system was a AMD/nvidia system. then i went to intel and ati. the only reason i went back to amd is it feels smoother to me intel feels all quirky like(or atleast mine did). I thought my AMD was so much smoother.
Ouch, you shouldn't go there man, those are key words to summon a certain genie with Intel superiority attitude. :horse:Quote:
Originally Posted by stangracin3
Brilliant : DQuote:
Originally Posted by spursindonesia
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=216514 :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by stangracin3
3DCenter's prediction price :
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/67937d0...f15020ed9d.jpg
Where do they put Antilles? Is it included in Cayman (I see the 6990..)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivon
Yep looks like they slotted it in thereQuote:
Originally Posted by marten_larsson
I really hope there is not going to be a 150-200 dollar price gap between the 6950 and 6870. My buying range is just about 300ish :(.
would be sick if this is the first ever retail 1ghz stock gpu (not like the 150 stock OCed 4890)
:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides
is it me or does it seem like they also gave it alot of room to OC also?Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
if these are real ofcourse.
Platinum Edition :D
Coolness if real ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by Borden
The core clock is really nice, but isn't the 1200 Mhz RAM clock a bit on the low side...? :confused:
BTW I just love the 6970XT-PE moniker, brings back good old memories :D
The only way the 1200 memory clock would be legit is if the cards are indeed on a 384bit bus but if those slides mentioning a 2GB frame buffer are to be believed that wouldn't make sense either. I call shananagans. That said those idle power states and temperatures look solid...
I will laugh if they go back to the old school ATI naming schemes though :ROTF:
Allready seen this screenshot and it's a fake, the guy was pointing how easy it is to show a fake screenshot of AB by mod the inf on the driver. ... this come from this forum.
http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulle...494330&page=19
Here's what the guy have put under the screenshoot in clear grey :
Jungs, das sind alles Fakes. Simples Treiber-Inf-Modding.
So full name would be like this:
AMD Radeon HD6970XT-PE
You can't call it a geek name
X6970 XTX. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
Sorry, I had memories of my X1900 XTX from back in the day... That thing was a beast. :D
That's a 580... why's it in this thread?
poor guy, he thinks those a nun chucks...
Break dull monotonous last few pages of non Cayman leaks.Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
The packaged die size of GTX 580 and HD6970 are reportedly the same. Which should mean that 6970 could be around $500 as well
With no good Cayman's leaks, perhaps a lot of Cayman's FUD
http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/ite...2nd-nov-launch
No final bios, cards, partners grumpy
Sources on a small island that doesn’t get along well with red China are informing us that Cayman has little chance to make the scheduled November 22nd launch.
The situation doesn’t look good as the final chip never made it to partners and the final boards are not ready yet. Partners do have early samples, but our sources assured us that there is no final bios and that drivers are not ready.
Just to assure you that this is not Nvidia talking, these guys are all unhappy as they were supposed to get some good sales numbers over the holiday season, as quite a few of people are excited about Cayman.
As of today, November 5th, at least some of the mayor players have no cards, no final bios and no drivers. They are saying the way things worked in the past they would have a small miracle to have full availability at launch.
We are sure that many will burn the messenger, but there is nothing we can do about it. We can only hope that we will see some Cayman cards selling in December.
Don't tell me that Asus is kicking up a stink (this is based on my own perception and could well be wrong)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilgamesh
OBR, that you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilgamesh
Hope that's not true ...
The 580gtx likely will own anything AMD puts out.
we want power fast speedy cards.
with excellent driver support.
6970 likely will drop in price fast as it isnt fast enough, good for the consumer.
IF true, it might "justify" nVIDIA aparent insanity by pricing GTX580 so high..Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras