Quote:
Originally Posted by muzz
I believe JAP means user "justapost", who posted a reply near the top of the page.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muzz
I believe JAP means user "justapost", who posted a reply near the top of the page.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Well my Canine A2 replacement just arrived. I hope this one works. I'll report back later...
I know. Intel uses both for 45nm too. But thanks anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Periander6
muzz: YHPM
Pfft acts like a brick like the other one. Seems dead. I am guessing it hates my G. Skill and Mushkin ram. I've tried one stick of each separately with no dice. The G Skill is a 2GB DDR 2 800 stick rated to work with 1.85-1.9v.
I tried it with an Agena 9600 and then with a Orleans 3000+. I've connected it to; Fortron 700 GLN, PC P&C 510 SLi and Seasonic 650 HT. I've tried a single X800XL and a single HD 3850.
I tried it in the case and on the box it came in. I've tried it with the case power switch and a jumper on the power pins.
I am not buying more ram just to toy with this 99usd mobo. Perhaps I'll try Gigabyte. Guess my AMD adventure is over for a while. I am putting my HD 3850s back in BX2 rig. F this, I don't need the headache.
Relax :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Blacklash
But I understand what it feels like and why you'd wanna throw it away. I was very fed up with this system too and I believe its the MB/BIOS support. And no doubt I was thinking of getting the Gigabyte DQ6 to try becuase then it'll show me fully if the problem was Phenom or K9A2. Like those saw who moved from DFI to GBT. Benched 2.85GHz 1.3V for 6 hour with no errors whatsoever at least 4 times in 3 weeks, ran consistently more than 14 hours per day at 2.64-2.75GHz 1.232V every day and now cannot boot plus 2.42GHz with 1.6V 7 days later. Talk about consistency. :(
Yeah I have no idea what is up. I've built quite a few 939 and Intel rigs in the past without issues.
I may try to troubleshoot it more later. The only other thing I could imagine that might cause it to not come on would be if the fan on the HSF they sent me is dead.
I really hate to buy more ram for a finicky budget mobo.
Thanks for the link KTE. Went to bed last night as started fresh this morning. New developments: Before i read your post i tried different ram( Hynix) and guess what it booted with all set on default. Then i boot with one dimm and select Dimm volt of 2.2 and tried but no luck. At 2.2 volt with divider set to 1.1.66 (667) the pc boots and run ok. Not happy about this. Your advice now needed -do i throw this memory away and get something else?
Does the fan spin with power? You can remove the CPU and test it, it should spin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklash
Have you tried an open benchtop build with minimum components?
When you said "then I boot with one dimm..." do you mean the same Hynix RAM or the Mushkin?Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanie
Your Mushkin RAM is rated for 2.2-2.35V and I'm thinking the CPU Mem volt problem might be kicking in here.
What happens if you try a bootup at 2.3V on the Mushkin RAM (1 stick installed - swap slots around too just to check)?
What happens if you try and give CPU ~1.35V and RAM 2.2/2.3V, does it boot?
Sorry to hear of these issues. I know users absolutely dread 'em. :(
BTW, if you want to bench then go for XP SP3. It's quicker. ;)
.
Well yes KTE i am starting to dread my change from the DFI to MSI but i will stick it out. OK i do get my pc to boot.etc with dimms in slots 1 and 2 after using these settings:( up to trrd as the rest i don't know where to get it.)
Now with Everest it showing only running in single channel? will try your setting.
CAS Latency Time - 5
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay - 5
DRAM RAS# Precharge - 5
Precharge Delay (tRAS) - 18
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD) - 4
Rank Write to Read Delay - 11
Write to Precharge Delay - 14
Refresh to ACT Delay - 42
Read to Precharge Delay - 4
tRD - 8 to 10
Dram Voltage +0.2 to +0.4 (warrantied to +0.55 but we highly recommend active cooling over +0.4 (2.2V)
These Voltages might help with instability
FSB Overvoltage Control +0.1
MCH Overvoltage Control +0.1 to +0.3
I got a real stupid question. On this board where must your GPU's go to run Crossfire. In slot 1 and 2 or 1 and 3?
Great Post KTE
Been reading this one since november. I got my board on monday.
My System
Phenom 9500
2GBS Corsair Dominator XMS2-8500 5-5-5-15 2.15v
ATI 3850
Antec 500w Earthpower 80+
I can not get the system to post with more then one stick of ram in it. I have 4 of the same ram stick to try. I have 2 extra for another system.
I have tried jumping up the Memv to 2.1 but thats all I have tried. The bios on this guy has alot of options that i'm still unsure about.
Also do you think my powersupply has enough juice?
MSI said they only support Kingston.
Corsair said it's either the board or the powersupply
I think it's the board or the bios
My bios version is 1.1. Also does that bios really support 1066mhz yet?
Did mem86 test no problem when one stick installed. Tested all sticks
Thanks
Brain
Phenom runs pretty cool. 80F.
That 3850 gets pretty hot to the touch when IDLE
You know, it seems this should now be changed to "the official Phenom+DDR2 complaints thread". :D
I am surprised there are so many problems, basically every next person has RAM problems with the MSI board. I ran some testing and I figured it is very possible the RAM holds back OC. Not just the divider, but Phenom/BIOS having problems running higher spped RAM than around 400-450MHz. Because it's only then that it errors.
EVEREST will always show single channel since each DCT is controlling a separate module. What does CPU-Z read? If it reads dual channel, it'll be in dual channel. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanie
Try looking for tRFC in the BIOS (0,1,2,3) and change them to 196ns along with the above setting which are there (not all). See if you can bootup.Quote:
CAS Latency Time - 5
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay - 5
DRAM RAS# Precharge - 5
Precharge Delay (tRAS) - 18
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD) - 4
Rank Write to Read Delay - 11
Write to Precharge Delay - 14
Refresh to ACT Delay - 42
Read to Precharge Delay - 4
tRD - 8 to 10
Dram Voltage +0.2 to +0.4 (warrantied to +0.55 but we highly recommend active cooling over +0.4 (2.2V)
These Voltages might help with instability
FSB Overvoltage Control +0.1
MCH Overvoltage Control +0.1 to +0.3
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/6039/cfzm4.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Swanie
;)
Try changing the RAM timings manually under Cell menu>Advanced DRAM Configuration> choose Unganged mode and "Both" for DRAM Timing Mode there. Then you'll be sent to a page where you can set the timings. Set them according to your RAM, i.e. 5-5-5-15 2T and tRFC 196ns for all. Keep a high tRC too just to see if it boots. Also let me know what the highest option for tRC you get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brains1
The pics I posted may help you: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...90&postcount=6
For instance, you'll need to change the first option (CAS) to 5, 2nd to 5, 3rd to 5 and 5th 15.
More than enough. ;)Quote:
Also do you think my powersupply has enough juice?
That's lame.Quote:
MSI said they only support Kingston.
So do I. ;)Quote:
I think it's the board or the bios
Don't know since I've not seen anyone run DDR2-1066 on it yet despite many claims by MSI. I know I can't.Quote:
My bios version is 1.1. Also does that bios really support 1066mhz yet?
Phenom runs cool, yep. Is your 3850 above around 42C idle? :confused:Quote:
Phenom runs pretty cool. 80F.
That 3850 gets pretty hot to the touch when IDLE
Should be very cool stock as a matter of fact, but it does depend on which version it is to some extent.
You're all welcome guys. :) (and girls :D )
the inner struggle gets bigger and bigger cause everyday the price on the 9500 Phenom drops.
i wann buy one but i also wanna wait till Q1.
atm 150 euro for a boxed 9500 and 125ish for a MSI mobo.
Even if they wont overclock like a q6600 those are stil kickass prices.
Both have fallen around 40% in price compared to what my uncles work place had paid for them early November. And yet, they'll definitely drop more with new year sales/higher stock/towards B3 release. Price for the package starts to become very exceptional IF they can get these RAM/BIOS issues sorted. No one wants these headaches in a build, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starscream
Tried entering those. No post with 2 sticks.
Big Bummer
So checking my email
News from Cosair and MSI
QUOTE
In addition, we have sent an email to MSI to try and help you get a solution, but it looks like it might just be a BIOS issue. However can you tell me the revision of our modules it's on the lable?
(How To Read the Memory Label)
And what MB BIOS version do you have installed now?
EDIT:
We just got an email from MSI and there is indeed a BIOS comming that should fix that issue, according to the Sales manager of MSI and I quote
Quote:
As far as I knew, we will come up a bios shortly for EPP-1066/1200 memory which will resolve the DDR2-1066/1200 issues customer reported.
Should available next week.
END QUOTE
So Cool I suppose.
I should just get the system ready and after X-mas you get 2GB.
Thanks
i myself think it will be 140ish tomorrow and before new year a low 140 or high 130.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
but im waiting for better support (to many bios issues) and maybe some more 790FX boards.
Btw were are the Foxconn and Biostar offerings. Seeing Foxconn is trying to get foot in the highend motherboard market and how wel Biostars AM2 boards clocked i rly would love to see their AM2+ boards. Or are both of them gonna be Nvidia only?
Yep that's the first thing I did. Vid card, CPU, one stick of ram. I tried all four ram slots at different times. It doesn't matter what PSU I connect to mobo it behaves like it's getting zero power. Utterly dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
The mushkin is rated @ 1.9-2.1v and I've used one stick in single channel in four different motherboards with just 1.85v. The G skill should work unless the mobo has a problem with 2GB sticks.
There is nothing wrong with the wall socket there either. It is in use.
I am going to check the fan on the HSF on another motherboard because this one is not doing a thing. It acts as if it's getting no power, just like the other one did.
It's the ram, the fan or I've got two dead mobos in a row.
EDIT: It was the stock fan on the HSF. It was dead. I tried another fan and it fired up. Guess I will need to replace it sooner than later.
Ah there you go mate! Good news at last but one thing it does do is tell us the truth from someone in charge who knows a thing or two: MSI's problem not anyone elses. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Brains1
Pity I'd probably have sold the Phenom by then. Actually I already have just not dropped it off to mates house yet. :p:
Phenom has had problems and MB many reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by Starscream
a) To tweak, test and learn of others' issues some MFGs always hold out and delay their products. More testing is always better, you can see this with XFX's boards/gfx many times.
b) To come out with a good compromise with component features and overclocking as well as to increase hardware support (which is lacking on DFI/MSI boards)
c) Phenom needs 8Mb BIOS (AM2+ boards) to properly have all options rather than the 4Mb on AM2 boards. This is a major problem for BIOS engineers to work around.
d) To make sure the errata/bugs have the workaround available.
e) AMD's new uarch is too different to AM2 so the BIOS cannot be like older simple "upgrades" and minor "changes" with any other platform. There has to be a lot more added specifiically first time and thus it has to be learnt well beforehand. The clocks for AM2+ are worked out completely different to AM2.
This'll take a while for them to get their heads around so much trial and testing is needed. The early boards will either compromise on features/oc/support or lose potential performance. So those delaying them should have something more solid coming.
Just what you'd never expect! Nice going though. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklash
So when you replace the fan, does the system bootup?
Thanks KTE. Yes also saw that in manual but the cards must be in the same color clots( dark blue) which are 16x(slots 1 & 3) , the lighter blue are 8x (slots 2 & 4) are to be used for "spider"/ 4x cards. My system is booting fine. If i run in ganged mode it shows dual channel . In CPU-Z my system shows no information under the memory tab. Running the 1.42 version. Now to start overclocking. One thing i can say the MSI now boots every time where with the DFI i had to retry 407 times.
Those blue slots are exactly what you need for Xfire, since they are the PCI-EX1 and PCI-EX4 slots mentioned above. ;)
Dual channel is Unganged mode and Ganged mode is single channel.
Programs have problems detecting these facts since K10h works different to everything else.
The only one known to detect single/dual properly is CPU-Z. If it errors (this will be due to BIOS not being able to read RAM info), then I don't know what can at the moment.
Thanks. Running the beta bios as indicated by you so don't know what up with CPU-Z.
It'll be based on your BIOS support for the RAM since when my BIOS could not pick up RAM info, CPU-Z failed to pick these up.
What does AOD BETA say?
Well i busy overclocking my system and got to these..still work in progress. Only running 1 dimm as 2 giving issues .will check that later. KTE when i set anything under AM2+ p-state my system won't boot with the values supplied. Currently only overclocking with HT ref, voltages as supplied you ,ht link @ 8 x 1600.
That RAM is running single channel (can tell from bandwidth).
What NB multiplier did you chose? That is running NB multi 9x (05). Did you change it to 03?
Well KTE only running one dimm. Did not set the multi of the NB all on auto
If you want to overclock properly i.e., get most MHz possible, then you'll have to drop NB speed down by lowering the NB multiplier.
Try changing it to 03 from BIOS and then oc. Nice going at 230x11 though, your CPU volts are still very near stock. I would advise you change volts through BIOS if you can before oc'ing, much better and will give you less problems. ;)
Well i can't touch anything under Am2+ p-state, i guess this is where i must set the nb multi?
Here some more benshes, now with duall channel memory.
Swanie, what do you mean you can't touch anything there?
Yep, the NB/CPU multi control is all there.
If i change even from disabled to do settings my pc don't boot .
Just got my first memory dump-BSOD, sorry not memory-" A clock interrupt was not received on a secondary processor within the allocated time interval"
OK this is weird. Now i could do setting but i did change mi memory devider to have it at 667. Now i can set the AM2+ data to what you said
CPU FID:06
CPU DID:1
CPU VID:28
NB FID:03
NB DID:1
NB VID:36
-One of your cores will be weaker than the others. It's a pattern I'm seeing with all users so far. If you test Prime95, you'll know which it is and you can keep it lower than the rest.
-Your voltage was low on your previous post, try in the 1.36V region for 2.6GHz.
-If you change even just from disabled it will have very high settings, that's why it won't boot. ;)
You'll need to change them properly (as above) to what you need once you enable it and it should boot fine.
Keep mem divider at 1:2.
Well in the bios the voltage for the CPU is higher than showing on screen capture, why i dont know. I have not used Prime95 before. installed it did the memory test, do i run the stress test to check the cpu's. Got the memory to run at 1:2 -now all fine. The voltage you talking about what is it in AOD? Where do i set it.
Have at least version 25.5, check "Round off checking" under Advanced and run the Torture Test called "Small FFT". :)
well now i am worried as worker thread 1 and 2 failed test 2 the first time around and the second time i ran it it was thread 2 and 4
Its CPU VDDC in AOD and CPU Voltage in the BIOS. You need to have it higher than at present. AOD will show your real current voltage under "Current Voltage" following the above label.
If it errored, its unstable and needs more volts for stability.
well now running into problems at 2600+mhz. Keep on rebooting... Turned oc down to 2530 and running Prime 95 with 1.36v
Well KTE you the man , at this volt running Prime95 without any errors thus far.. already much further than before...know it is clocked lower but getting somewhere. I had to push vlots up with AOD to 1.36 as i could not get there in bios as it jumps to over 1.4. I must say clocking further than i could on my DFI
Well at 2618Mhz under prime95 testing cpu's running a bit hot @ 60degrees. My Thermalright worked on my DFI but not on MSI as the backplate's mounting holes thread is to low down and screws does not fit. Standard cooler not up to it. My watercooling does not fit either..d@mn
Can't get longer screws, and chase a nut up the shaft for depth?
What's your computer ambient if you're at 60C at less than 1.42V?
I get max 52C with 26C ambient 8hr maximum load (in-place large FFT) with 1.58V at lowest fan speed with 49C IHS temp.
it is about 22c ambient and using the standard cooler
Clever didn't think of that ,thanks
Did a 3dmark06 bench. Not happy with the CPU score..What your thoughts
I keep forgetting. Vista?
CPU score is very low compared to XP but Vista is getting lower score anyway, something like 500marks lower.
Yes Vista 32bit. So the score ok or should it be more. Had the CPU to 2704 but froze as voltage wasn't correct.
O yes forgot, running memory in slot 1 & 3, 1&2 still giving boot issues, now after i installed second GPU
I "think" 2.9GHz should give around 3700 CPU in 2k6 under Vista so that's not much off since you do gain a little with higher HT/NB and RAM in dual channel unganged.
NP, It works great. I chase a nut up a long screw, set the screw to it's desired depth(for grip), and then run the nut down for tension(in case other folks didn't understand).Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanie
I did this because the screws were pathetic to grab on my Big Typhoon(angle), and it's MUCH easier to use a small wrench from the side(on a nut), than a screwdriver angled hard from the top.
ok theres 2 new beta bios for the K9A2. A7376AMS.121 and a new perf bios A7376AMS.P0D
Anyone try any of these?
P0D and 121 have been out for over 2 weeks. I've tried them both before, P0D is the one with the TLB errata patch. Though I've erased them a while ago. Do you have a link for any of them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricey20
I still using a 5000X2 on the K9A2, hoping to change to a 9500 soon.
any performance and/or stability difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Nope, nothing at all. 121 fixed some PCIe bug IIRC, but no other difference and 113 is still my favored one. P0D gave abysmal performance. ;)
official 1.13 bios ?Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
any of the bios allows for pci-e freq changing in bios?
BETA dated 16th Nov. ;)
No PCIe changing yet that I've seen. But if you use the "DOT OC" options, they can oc the PCIe.
Hi all, Noob to the forum, and learning alot. thanx. Just started a new build, components in my sig. I have reloaded vista twice, I think AOD was killing it after first install. Now setting restore point between software installations. At work so won't get to play with it for hours. But, something driving me crazy. CPU fan running at 2800 is LOUD, and can't find anywhere in bios to change it. Solution? Thanx in advance.
Welcome to XS Dstoff. :)
In the BIOS there should be an option for "CPU Smart FAN Target" where H/W Monitor is. That'll help you be able to control fanspeed. As the manual says (attached).
Hope it helps. ;)
.
The new .14 overdrive now shows the temps!!!!
Yep ;)
@KTE.....hey how many Bios updates have you guys seen on the Gigabyte and MSI please since release?
Vista x64 definitely carries a score hit in 3dmark06. It equals about 500 on the CPU and 750 total @ my max overclock.
There's my Q6600 G-0 @ 2.6GHz with Vista x64-
http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06263dud4.jpg
and my normal Vista x64 score-
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=3553315
It's only equal to about 2FPS in the graphics tests in 3dMark06. So in actual impact it looks worse than it is. My OC score is with older drivers and I might score better with the latest. It was run in late October.
If you're all about squeezing those last few points out of a bench stay on XP, or dual boot.
Nice finding Blacklash, thanks. :toast:
Brother, Brother, as far as I'm aware, there have only been two public release BIOSes for MSI 790FX, the last older than a 5 weeks now and the others we have to FIND ourselves (BETAs) around were four which were older than 4 weeks again and hardly resolved anything. All major issues still remain.
BUT Gigabyte 790FX has had three offficial final releases which resolved all major issues in their second one, one latest came out not more than two weeks back to add ease, and at least four others that I knew of they could find around (BETAs).
Gigabyte support has been far far superior than MSI support. My experience with MSI this time has been exactly like what I have gotten by gorilla ASUS in the past. Afterall, I PAY, they have to appease my service for me to buy and support their products, not the other way round they seem to boast. I could easily go and buy ANYTHING else, plenty of boards better working around, and let alone Foxconn's upcoming board. ;)
Like I said thats why I wont patronize MSI ever again.....too bad its hind sight 20/20 though:rolleyes:
guys...do u use the bios or the pstates to change the vcore?
for me my settings are 1.537 something volts in bios and pstates is 040.
another thing that puzzled me is that after leaving my com powered down for the night, the bios automatically reduced the vcore in bios without changing the clock speeds and because of this i ended up with repeated reboots telling me my OC is unstable.
and the best part? it appears the max voltage is lowered from 1.6 to 1.5375 or so.
15.7 sec wprime 32 run @ 2.74 ghz(4-4-4-3) unfortunately 2.750 ghz run screenie bananed(4-4-3-3)
Question: is there some good tweaks more? where i can tight up some more in memsettings?
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/30/tight2yk0.jpg
Anyone run one on dry ice yet?
I guess I need to RMA my motherboard and do it then:)
Hi Folks, and thanks for all the GREAT info on OC'ing Phenoms!! :up:
I've been reading the forums for a couple weeks now and finally decided to join... Have you guys come to a consensus on what the BEST AM2+ Mobo is yet?
After reading alot of this stuff I'm leaning heavily toward the DFI board, even though my last few builds have all been MSI's... I'm trying to hold off until the 9600 BE's are released, but I think I'm going to go ahead and pick up a board now...
I already have the Memory for it (G.Skill (2x2) DDR2/1000)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231145
so if you have any Mobo recommendations, or see any problems with this Mem on a particular board I'd appreciate a heads up!
Wish the BE's would hit the shelves already!!! This money is burning a hole in my pocket :eek:
Hi fellas, had to leave for some time. Hope your all enjoying your holidays, best wishes. :D
BIOS mainly but I try AOD too if it works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor
P-States won't be that for CPU, it won't boot at that if enabled. That looks like NB VID to me. CPU VID is locked and not the VCore. ;)Quote:
for me my settings are 1.537 something volts in bios and pstates is 040.
How do you know if it was the BIOS which reduced it? Did you start AOD and ever hit Apply? If you did, then that is what reduced it, since you have to choose max volts in AOD to get a high actual VCore value.Quote:
another thing that puzzled me is that after leaving my com powered down for the night, the bios automatically reduced the vcore in bios without changing the clock speeds and because of this i ended up with repeated reboots telling me my OC is unstable.
Yeah same here. Mine used to be 1.64V-ish and then suddenly went down to 1.458V. What's your CPU VID? When that changes to 1.20VID from 1.25VID, the max volts you can have also falls according to my testing.Quote:
and the best part? it appears the max voltage is lowered from 1.6 to 1.5375 or so.
AOD. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by KeZzZu
Don't have equipment here, since I'm on holiday for a while away from home. Tried an industrial phase change unit about 2 weeks ago from work, which can usually take the adjacent object to -30ºC temps. CPU IHS reached -28℃ but it did not make a different to max bootup MHz, max HT ref. and max CPU MHz, so I didn't bother again.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMulta
Why do you want to RMA the MB?Quote:
I guess I need to RMA my motherboard and do it then:)
Welcome Daveburt714 :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
The DFI board has problems more than MSI one with Phenom that I've seen. I like the board (especially colors) but it seems to have a HT wall with Phenom lower than the MSI does which needs to be fixed through BIOS revisions. I would've picked it up actually but it is no where to be found around these countries. :(
As for the memory, it won't be able to run at the rated speeds with the MSI board so far.
Thanks for the Welcome!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by KTE
I'm glad to hear you say that about the MSI board, because I actually ordered one last night ($90 cheaper too)... Now just waiting for the BE's ;)
I've seen some really killer scores on the DFI's using X2's, I'm sure it's a good board.. But it sounds like it needs a little work before it plays nice with Phenom, whether it be bios or a possible revision...
Plus I had to hunt a little to even find a K9A2 in stock, so when I did I snatched it up.... If you wouldn't mind and you have a better BIOS than what is posted on MSI's site, could you link it for me? The one on the site is over a 6 weeks old....
At least the DDR2/1000 will be one less thing to worry about, and it's said to OC quite well, so if they ever do get the 1066 spds running, I should be OK!
Daveburt714: I have all the released BIOSes, not linkable online but they're on a HD that I can't access anymore. I'll try and see if I can get it to work and attach them on one of the posts here later on. :)
IMPORTANT NOTE: MSI board dropped in price very quickly on my side of earth...? Some MB manfacturers (namely, MSI and ASUS) are telling official reviewers that their motherboards need a new revision to solve so many of these problems (which is coming out very shortly), which is exactly the opposite to what we customers are being told, but no wonder we've had no help for over a month. So if I was you, I'd wait till a better, newer revision of the MB's are out to purchase one to keep. To experiment like I did, it's a different story. ;)
Here's one (pretty new and quite decent) Phenom 9900/Spider vs Q6600 review where these MB MFG's told the truth to a reviewer: http://www.overclockersclub.com/revi...mon_9900/4.htm
QUICK NOTE
I don't have a Phenom since around 34hours now. It was sold and delivered to a friend incl. insurance and recorded next day delivery with P&P for $160. :)
That means, I cannot possibly test it or refer to it anymore beyond memory. My C2D laptop and P4 do not for some reason pick up my SATA drives used with Phenom so I can't access the information I stored on them. I can only speak from memory now, sorry. Waiting for BE now.
However, now I can speak with details and more thoroughly. My brain is free at last. :D
I've done many tests since our dear friend Lightman posted recently about Northbridge overclocking and if you remember, I had posted about it in this thread 2nd December with 3.12GHz NB speed readings by CPU-Z and many benches HERE. Start reading on from Post#69. ;)
I noticed many many discrepencies later on, as did Sammi/Tony/lukija and after much testing and investgation with help from lukija, we decided the high Northbirdge reading in CPU-Z are faulty. It will not validate those high Northbridge reading CPU-Z files, no way. In fact, I will post comparison benches later on (when I can access the HD somehow) of same CPU MHz different NB MHz, and you will see that actual ≤9x multi Northbridge frequency change has a very noticeable performance effect even at +/-200MHz difference compared to these "errorsome" readings having zero performance difference whilst showing +/-1000MHz difference in speeds.
Another very easy way to determine what your Northbridge speed is, is to set a "high HT link speed". If you have a high Northbirdge speed from the BIOS, the HT speed can also be that high without problems. Try it.
You will see, that overclocking through changing northbridge multiplier with Phenom will only get you a faulty NB speed reading in CPU-Z and faulty component readings in all other monitoring software. The HT speed will not change from what the NB multiplier 9x would have it running at in any case. Meaning the NB pseed has not changed past what it was at 9x multi. Go and try it. ;)
Why would Sammi say to overclock Phenom, "drop the NB multi"? ;)
You see, inspect this:
Messing around I could get 3.12GHz on Northbridge speed by raising the NB multi through BIOS at very low volts..what?
However, when I tried coventional 9x multiplier (stock) CPU overclocking with max volts, it failed bootup past NB 2GHz-2.2GHz repeatedly, even in AOD.. ?
OK.
So I drop the NB multi to 5x and then overclock CPU and can reach +500MHz CPU speed beyond what I can with a 2GHz NB.. !?
Why would this happen if the NB could reach 3.2GHz NB on stock volts stable? ;)
Eggsactly. You get what I mean.
Remember I've been saying I cannot OC Phenom anymore past 2.5GHz? Well, here's the crack.
I gave it one last shot before delivering it. THis time once again, I managed 2.84GHz with 5x NB multi (screenshots/CPU-Z files not uploaded yet).
As I mentioned very early at the beginning: The problem and bottleneck with Phenom is NB speed. Drop the NB multi to OC the CPU. Above 2GHz NB will start erroring randomly. At the start when your Phenom is new you may get upto 2.3GHz on NB speed at 9x multi, but soon if you keep pushing to this, this is going to stop you're oc on CPU MHz and lower it. Soon you won't be able to oc high CPU/NB MHz again unless you drop the NB multi/MHz to keep it below 2GHz at all times and then try and oc the CPU. ;)
The only way to overclock the Northbridge so far with locked edition Phenoms is to leave the NB at 9x multi and oc high on HT ref. Then it'll continue going up in-sync and you see some very good gains sometimes past 100% CPU MHz scaling, which is due to the IMC/Mem MHz rising alongside the CPU MHz.
Hope it helps clarify much confusion. Thanks.
@KTE.. So if I read that correctly, MSI and Asus, at least, are admitting that the boards actually need a revision because there is no Bios fix that will correct the problem... And that article was dated just a couple days ago!!
I hope I misinterpreted that, but I don't think I did... :shakes:
I wonder if Gigabyte is in the same boat....?
Yep, that's true. Many problems are board hardware related rather than BIOS is what they are saying. That article is dated 23rd December and that's official news. I know new iterations are in the works but I didn't think they were so soon.
I don't know about the new iteration release situation with Gigabyte DS4/DS5/DQ6 boards but their 790FX boards are better for you than both ASUS and MSI as of present, judging by support/compatibility issues. Far better, even the BIOS and overclocking. :)
But I wouldn't buy a board yet. Wait for January 1-7 for them and maybe some more by other MFGs.
Hmmm... That kinda sucks since the board is already on it's way! :mad:
I did check the companies return policy and they offer a 1 year replacement/repair policy.... Not sure how ethical it is, but I may just use it for a few months and then return it. Honestly, I don't think I'll feel too bad since they sent me a faulty product in the 1st place....
Thanks for the heads up KTE!
i mean the cpu vid is 040. i noticed there is some issue with 235HTT. on and off the system hangs at different times despite being on the same load. errata ? 235x11. i've tried vid = 40 ,41 and 42. strangely it doesnt like odd numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
not sure waht u meant by wont boot when pstates enabled. for me, the bios always uses the Pstates to adjust the multipliers for nb and cpu, voltage for both cpu and NB.
i know it isnt AOD because for this system i never installed AOD because i felt that it was too problematic for me.
my settings for 235x11.
BIOS CPU volts =1.545
P states=
cpu fid = 6 (x11)
cpu did = 0 (1 )
cpu vid = 042
nbfid = 04 (x8)
nb did = 0 (1)
nb vid = 042
another thing is, i tried to set a NB multi of 7 by using NB fid = 10(14) and nb did = 1 (2) so the resulting multi is 7. but it doesnt work at all. but nevermind.
BTW do you know what are the voltages for the various VIDs??
Try it Dave and see if its better with the upcoming BIOS. I heard it will have most issues ironed out. ;)
Nope, oc instability. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor
I've no idea how you've manged to manipulate CPU VID. It should be locked and it was for mine. It controls core amps AFAIK, and high value is lower.Quote:
i've tried vid = 40 ,41 and 42. strangely it doesnt like odd numbers.
Stock 9500 is 28 = 1.25V/1.2V
Lower value is higher VID.
Don't have the exact mapping with me here since I can't access the HD they're on. 29 is something like 1.168.
The new BETA is very good.Quote:
i know it isnt AOD because for this system i never installed AOD because i felt that it was too problematic for me.
Firstly, I highly doubt you need the highest volts for 2.5GHz. You need to drop NB multi to 5x (00) and then start oc'ing. Bootup at 225HT ref. It should get to ~2.6GHz through AOD with 1.4V stable.Quote:
my settings for 235x11.
BIOS CPU volts =1.545
P states=
cpu fid = 6 (x11)
cpu did = 0 (1 )
cpu vid = 042
nbfid = 04 (x8)
nb did = 0 (1)
nb vid = 042
Try 240 HT ref. through the latest AOD and if that doesn't work, then through the BIOS whilst having low NB and HT.
Secondly, your NB/CPU DID options are different to mine. Mine were 1 and 2, rather than 0 and 1.
Thirdly, you're running lower VIDs than stock on both NB and CPU. That will give you bad stability even if it boots. Put them back to stock or lower if you can, i.e. CPU 28 and NB 36, or lower because that's higher VID=better possible OC. ;)
You'll have to expereiment why. I don't have it to try at all. Maybe it's because of the Mem speed. :(Quote:
another thing is, i tried to set a NB multi of 7 by using NB fid = 10(14) and nb did = 1 (2) so the resulting multi is 7. but it doesnt work at all. but nevermind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
I am not using the official msi bios. it;s closer to a custom 1.
so this what i will be trying.
cpud fid 4
cpu vid 28
cpu did 1
nb fid 01
nb vid 36
nb did 1
HT 5x
HTT = 225
cpu voltage is 1.537
Mind sharing it please? Where or who did this custom BIOS? Any bettter than MSI 113 Beta? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor
Try those. Your VIDs were too low and your NB too high for oc'ing before.
i only tried the original 1.0(iirc) the very first public version tht came with the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
then i stuck to this bios. it's not really custom, more of..internal?? so i cant really tell u whether is it better than 113
anyway it works. but i am trying 240htt x11
HT x5
core FID 6
vid 25
did 1
nb fid 1
nb vid 36
did 1
POSTs but cant boot. raising nb vid to 30 now. i hope i can hit the big 3GHz
EDIT: boots but takes extremely long to complete the scrolling. rebooted then it hangs when the screen is black with a cursor.
It must be better than MSI BIOSes as it lets you change VID to what we could not. ;)
I've no idea who modded the BIOS yet though. The new one for MSI hasn't released yet although partners can get hold of it.
damn it...cant boot. 240x11
Then AOD or you'll just be stuck. ;)
EDIT: Hold on. What do you mean no boot?
After you set it, leave it. It may give you a blank screen (if it starts but no POST). Leave it to wait, as long as 2 minutes. If it can start, it'll startup fine in those 2 minutes, slowly. If not, it'll start with "red error message about failed oc" or you'll just have to reset it.
please help me check through to see if i missed out anything before i go AODQuote:
Originally Posted by KTE
240x10
cpu fid -4
cpu vid - 25
cpu did - 1
nb fid - 1
nb vid - 31
nb did - 1
HT X5
Set both your VIDs to stock before booting. That maybe your problem.
Both DID values should be equal to value 1. (which is 0 in your case if 0=1 and 1=2)
Also look at my edit above. Try 239, 238, 237 and so on on until you can boot. Many Phenoms cannot boot above 230-235-ish and everyone uses AOD to oc higher. I had a ~265HT ref. max bootup by lowering everything, incl. CPU multi but only around 240 with 11x multi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
shouldnt i be raising the vcore hence lowering the vid?
ok....240x11 really doesnt work. hangs at windows loading screen.
going to lower to 235x11
As I mentioned before, VID is not the VCore. VCore is separate item in the BIOS and you should put that high if you want to oc, yep. VID for a CPU is usually locked and changing it can effect stability so leave it to stock at best unless you observe more stability with it.
If 240 doesn't work, I would try lower, i.e. 237.
I don't think you'll get 3GHz stable, not even 2.9GHz stable with Phenom at 11x multi. It's the HT ref. which makes everything unstable, below 230 is very stable usually.
As the platform gets better, colder tests will prove where the problem lies.
okok...will try 235x11 ...vid = 28 thenQuote:
Originally Posted by KTE
so you are saying 3Ghz is a hard chase ?
Hi, KTE do you still have you're D.F.I Board? The new Beta Bios I am using is really good probably the best Bios to date cant say for Phenom but I can give you my honest opinion about what I see and feel.
Campbell;)
It is, yep. With 11x multi on air, very hard so far. It's not user error but a Phenom one frankly. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor
Keep trying. It might hit 2.9GHz randomly. I hope you can manage 2.8GHz stable, it runs very well at that speed. A bit like running 4GHz and 3.6GHz on C2D. I've never wanted to go faster 24/7 than 3.6GHz.
Nope, I don't have it anymore although can possibly pick it up again (have to drive over to uncles office). He doesn't return there till the 7th though. The Sapphire RD580 I had (white PCB) is sold long ago though. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Esau
[QUOTE=KTE;2654372]
235x11 is just too unstable for me.. i have no idea why. i am using rams rated at 1066mhz and they are running at 1:2 dividers...at 5-5-5-15 timings.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
I keep gettin BSODs caused by drivers irhq.
usb-something is causing the BSODs it seems. trying to reinstall SP2 again!!
Install SP3. ;)
If it was causing BSODs at stock or 2300, then you need to reinstall but otherwise nope. There is no way the system stable at 2200, 2300 unstable at 2500 is due to anything but the oc.
so when using AOD, do i raise the HTT by 1-2mhz and prime for a few mins for stability?Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Yep, go 2MHz on HT up and once you're at or over 237HT ref, start small FFT priming for 15mins. If it passes, move on 2MHz more and then prime for 2mins, and keep going up and priming 2 mins until it doesn't even do 1min. Then you'll see where the chip limit for max MHz, benching and stabile operation is better. Once you get to an area where its failing below 1min, you know that you're max limit for screenshot/validation is very near. You can try after that for max MHz screenshot, max MHz valid, max benchable small apps (Pi), max benchable 3D or max 24/7 stability. It's your choice how you go about it, I did them all.
Otherwise it takes forever and just inaccurate guesses.
Thanks KTE! No big hurry... I'm waiting for a BE before I jump into the fray ;) .... Sounds like you've had alot of time to test this stuff, so even if you can only recover or remember the number of the best bios you've tested it would be great!Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
I don't know what it is, but the Phenom really intrigues me! :D
I'm Hoping that by using the tricks you guys have pioneered here, combined with unlocked multi's, may just make for a processor that even makes Chipzilla take notice! At least on a price/performance basis... :yepp:
I know it's all speculation, and I'm sure it's gonna be a PITA... But let's say you tweaked the NB/IMC/HT Bus to thier max stable settings and then found that there were only 1 or 2 weak cores, and you could raise the Multi's on the others!!
Do you folks think there would be any advantage to running Asynchronous speeds on the cores? I think there might be!!!
Be nice to that drive with the Bios on it Man!! :D
Exact opposite actually. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
That's why you don't see me getting verbose every other post, starting 10 page discussions or being involved or replying to every other thread on this board frankly. I don't have even ¼ the time that many of the online users here seem to have and yet I don't read the background online articles at all unless I'm at break from work. No time when you have life priorities. It becomes very hectic when you have so many people to contact, report to and get back to or help and to test, critique and analyze your own hardware. Then you have 3 jobs, 2yrs PhD study, your family, friends, local hobbies, errands, health/fitness, serious enthusiasms and so on to cover which is 99% of my time. And computers is probably last of my past times or interests too. :(
However, I've played with the 9500 since around the 10th November and messed about as much as I could without any DIY modding, which I really would've done if I was planning to keep the system. BE should be here soon, we'll see. So far I can get one but I don't usually pay, ever, and the asking price is 240 while its only supposed to be 160. :mad:
I've honestly been fighting with constant reboots with those drives (two of them). None of them are picked up by this system and I've tried SATA, eSATA and PATA peripherals, they just don't get picked up by the BIOS. My SATA ports are definitely dead but the other PATA port is working so it means the board has BIOS issues. What's more, it's an MSI board again. :rolleyes:Quote:
Be nice to that drive with the Bios on it Man!! :D
Problem is, I won't have another CPU to try on another board which'll have both PATA/SATA free until at least 7-14 days. I'm now trying to get hold of a X2-BE EE, I know my uncle had far too many of them spare at his workplace. A 14 hour drive there and back and I'm tied for a long while before I have 16hrs time free. :(
That all said, don't lose hope just yet ... I'll see what I can do. :D
I'm not gonna quote a bunch of stuff... But man, it seems like you need a 6 week sabbatical!!! :D
My life is so easy, and I love it!! Guess I'm lazy... I work 3pm-11pm / Monday - Friday... Think I had 23 hours overtime this year;) ... When I'm off, I'm off... No pagers or cell phone/text... I'm a craftsman (printer) I made decent money this year... I still have enough to buy toys... thats a good thing right? :up:
I don't really compare with people since everything differs in too many ways especially with perception, but yep, it's damn hectic. Worst bit is working 3 jobs (5 days part-time, 2 days full-time: 7 days) and studying/research/practicals for a PhD and another unrelated degree at the same time. Really does shaft the head over, at times I'm like a walking zombie without 7 days of continuous sleep, i.e. last week. :D
In case you didn't know, the only time I have time to mess about with a computer is after 1am every night. ;)
Blacklash: I've seen it. I think we already knew all that and more. ;) ;)
Skipped back a few pages but i have no clue what you mean? Was it my reply to you'r al gore statement?Quote:
Originally Posted by muzz
@KTE I measured all the components again will post the results in detail later phenom seems to require 20-25W DC in idle here. Measuring the memory is tricky the results vary between 1.6-2.1W depending on the modules i remove.