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Black
About double the price of the single top... thats a fair price for such a large piece of Delrin/POM.
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Eddy! When is the new dual DDC V2 top coming out? Any US availability ETA? :) :)
Hello,
I've spent 2 hours to make the tests ;)
I took so many photos that I'll have to make a selection, and now I'm writing with my laptop because my main pc is... not available (I'm upgrading my wc loop). I'll post photos as soon as I'll have completed the watercooling upgrade. Tomorrow probably. But I can't wait to share results with you ;)
For each measurement, I waited 10 minutes before taking the result displayed on the controller into account. I tried also to start 2 times the power supply to make sure the result was valid (I'll explain why tomorrow when posting the photos)
Aquacomputer Aquaero system is calibrated for the flow sensor, the error margin is probably less than 10% (but remember there; this is a test configuration, results will certainly change when the final loop will be mounted because there will be 2 waterblocks and 2 radiators into the loop!)
>>> Test 1: 1x D5 pump + 1x Res150 Rev 2 reservoir + 1x Flow Sensor High Flow on Aquacomputer Aquaero controller + 1/2 tubing, around 2,5 meters on total
Pump @ S1 = 207 liter / hour
Pump @ S5 = 588 liter / hour
>>> Test 2: 2x D5 pump + 1x Res150 Rev 2 reservoir + 1x Flow Sensor High Flow on Aquacomputer Aquaero controller + 1/2 tubing, around 2,5 meters on total
PumpS @ S1 = 259 liter / hour
Pumps @ S4 = 627 liter / hour
PumpS @ S5 = 71 liter / hour** = 721 liter / hour
**: the maximum value displayed with the flow sensor is 650, and I forgot to change the values into liter / minutes.... sorry for that but I spent 2 hours for this test I don't want to do it again... so consider this number as 650 + 71 liter per hours ;)
>>> Test 3: 2x D5 pump + EKWB Dual Top D5 + 60mm tube mounted on the Dual top with LINK option + 1x Flow Sensor High Flow on Aquacomputer Aquaero controller + 1/2 tubing, around 2,5 meters on total
PumpS @ S1 = 289 liter / hour
PumpS @ S2 = 469 liter / hour
PumpS @ S3 = 560 liter / hour
Pumps @ S4 = 648 liter / hour
PumpS @ S5 = 107 liter / hour** = 757 liter / hour
**: the maximum value displayed with the flow sensor is 650, and I forgot to change the values into liter / minutes.... sorry for that but I spent 2 hours for this test I don't want to do it again... so consider this number as 650 + 107 liter per hours ;)
About cyclon.... trust me, @ S5 with the Dual Top, you have a lot of disturbances, with some air injected into the circuit I mean it's noisy, but no cyclon effect with the 60mm reservoir tube, you just have to take care about completely filling the tube with liquid otherwise because of the pressure you can get some noise with air injected into the cooling circuit (a little bit...)
Something really simple to reduce disturbances: take your anti cyclon part, and simply put it into the tube,not necessary to plug it anywhere, just put it into the reservoir and close the reservoir. I have some photos with that to compare disturbances into the reservoir.
Finally: for the tests, I was using 1/2 tube 13mm inside, 19mm outside. It's not the tubing I use for ''production'' because on my barbed fittings, I use Masterkleer tube with 12mm inside diameter, 16mm outside diameter. I mean the 13/19mm tube is not as safe as the 12/16mm and if the pressure in the circuit is high and you don't use clipping accessories; you can see the tube going out the fitting, some millimeters only but it's moving backward. I hope you understand my english... well here I saw the tube moving when selecting the speed number 5 on both pumps with dual top, also @speed 4 so I imagine that the pressur is also higher than without dual top!
Hope this helps, I'll provide you a lot of photos tomorrow. Now... I have a lot of work to mount my new watercooling system.
Best regards.
Cyril
Now I have a question: do you think it could help to minimize the disturbances to use a 100mm tube instead of the 60mm? Or will I get a cyclon that I don't get with the 60mm?
Ok I tried with the 100mm reservoir tube. Absolutely no problem with cyclon. When the reservoir il fully filled. I tried to remove 3cm of water, same result, no problem with cyclon. And then.... HORROR ....
The tube fixed at the output of the dual top moved out of the fitting!!! Water on the table, alert, power supply shutdown and 10 minutes to remove water everywhere on the table...
But I was lucky... because when you'll see the photo tomorrow, you'll understand that this tsunami may have affect my motherboard, graphic card... etc.. I had the chance that the water came out something like 15 cm away of the opened PC box.. 15 cm more on the left and my Mobo and all my PC would have been under water...
That's why I prefer to use 12mm tube ... because with 13mm I absolutely need to put clamps...
What does it mean: the pressure inside the dual top is huge! And... the water becomes warm after some minutes and I think the tubes where a little bit warm... and more flexible... and came out the fitting.
Well... I have a photo of it too ^^
thats pretty impressive i can't wait for the dual ddc results.
^^
Not implying, saying so...
Testing dual pumps with no clamps is a more than a bit tricky...
^^
I believe that u were using a rad in your loop...
Scaniris didn't use any, which isn't a wise thing to do on the first place, heated up water like hell so tube went off... ;)
Hi,
I have clamps, 2 dozens, don't worry, here this happened only because I was testing with tube I don't use for ''production'' but only to create a testing loop for cleaning parts of my system like radiator a so one. The tube I use for normal purposes, I mean into my system, is a 12mm not a 13mm and no need for clamps on barbed fittings with this tube ;) For testing I didn't use a rad, only pump + res + flow sensor. Basic comparison. And now in the productive system, ...I have 1x 480 and 1x 240 mm rad.
Well I'm late with the photos, I'll upload some during the week end, I finished to éount my new WC loop and the flow is... 312 liters per hour on position 2 with... 1x heatkiller rev 3, 1x Feser Xchanger rad 240mm, 1x EKWB FC HD5970, 1x HardwareLabs Black Ice Sr1 480mm, 2 flow sensors, 2 inline temp sensors and finally the reservoir (10cm finally, easier and quicker to fill the system) and the Dual Top. On position 395 liter per hour.
What I confirm is that the EKWB FC HD5970 is very impressive regarding the cooling performances (33°C GPU / 34°C VRM in 2D / idle with GPU-Z, and max 43°C GPU / 47°C VRM playing COD4 MW2 @ 1920x1600 all settings HIGH and BONUS...), and I also confirm that the Dual Top with 2x D5 pumps and a 10cm reservoir tube mounted with the Link option is really silent in normal operations up to Speed #4. @5 I can hear it but... not really disturbing (the pumps are outside the PC chassis, placed on foam to minimize vibrations and noise). I also confirm... that the performance of the Watercool Heatkiller Rev 3 copper are really better than the perfornances of the EKWB Supreme waterblock. Vers impressive package this waterblock, a lot of nice features when mounting it... easy to mount, solid hardware, high flow, high performance. I think now that the Supreme waterblock was restrictive, I get a better flow speed with the EKWB (I've tested the waterblocks today in the same loop one after the other).
Pics later ;)
Don't ever test pumps without a rad m8 for prolonged time. Eventually u'll burn them due to excessive heat...
Can u pls post your 5970 temps after 10' FurMark...
Here it is:
http://free0.hiboox.com/images/5009/...c85d414191.png
I'm working with 2 displays, Furmark was running on the 26'' in Stability mode @ 1920 x 1200 resolution, and all the monitoring on the 22' ;)
You can see temps in idle here, fews seconds after a Stalker bench:
http://free0.hiboox.com/images/5009/...e24f2978b0.png
And well... same monitoring tools some minutes after the Furmark test you've requested :
http://free0.hiboox.com/images/5009/...8ff1477c18.png
If you want I can make some other tests.
;)
Yes some details: when I play benchmark or a stability run,I select a profile mode in my Aquaero controller to put all the fans @ 100%. I can show you what's up with temps when fans are running in silent mode (Silent mode in ma setup means...1 fan @ 55% on the 240 rad, and 2 fans @ 55% on the 480 rad, and linear adaptation depending on some treshold that I defined in the controller).
I played COD4 MW2 this evening, 3 fans running @ 56%... and temps never exceed 45°... (I have a G15 keyboard and i can display graphic card information using the MSI tool ;))
Thanks for the info. :)
u are... cuz now u only have 1 left after u give me my 2 i sent you.
I MIGHT play with this top, and swap out a dual ddc for dual D5's on my gpu loop for the hell of it.
Get clamps on.
Dont be rambo, trust me on this bentleya, u know ive ran into almost every problem one can possibly run into in our hobby.
And at the very least i always used zipties.
Some pictures of my config to see the context where I get this flow rate with the Dual Top:
not to sound mean..
but i think i would of gone DDC's and kept everything internal.
:X
But u have a nice setup, a bit hectic inside, but a nice setup.
Excuses...
Tsk tsk.... :lol:
Even though, i must admit that Eddy's top is a killer...
yeah it is nice.
And i think i will end up using a 250 tube instead of that dinky small one.
Eddy is the tube diameter the same size? Can i use my EK250 tube on that base?
In this loop yes.
What?, i've had a DDC pumping EC6 around the tubing rig for 2 months non stop. Still works.
It's just one of them things, i keep changing. I did have, then i got a new GPU to play with so had to re do loop. But i will eventually put clamps on, well zip ties.
If I knew some monthes ago that I'll upgrade my air cooling system with a water cooling system, I had probably choosen the X2000 chassis instead of the X500 ^^ But for the moment I'm experiencing lots of new stuffs for me, and I'll probably change my chassis later on. I'm also intersted in chilling... so until I've defined the cooling concept, I'll continue to experiment in my small lab :D Yeah for sure it's not sexy, I know that, but I make some experiences changing my hardware each 2-3 monthes to learn and make my own experience. ^^ And select components after reviewing them myself, I like reviews on internet but I prefer to test @ home.
Why DDC instead of D5? More pressure and less flow is that really better for such a setup? I'd really like to get some details :)
Our setups have high restriction that means in the end the resultant flow will be higher with a DDC. We can counter that by running parallel lines from a D5 (with a T3 res for instance). Also the DDC is square (easier to integrate in a typical PC case), and a lot smaller than the D5.
Thanks for the information. The flow rate that I provide here comes from a flow sensor at the end of the loop, this is the flow speed at the end of the loop, not at the output of the pumps. The resultant flow.
400l/h as resultant flow rate it seems to be great but you think that i can increase this flow speed with a dual DDC? What would be the benefit? Temp decrease?
For ergonomy you are right yeah... D5 are not really small. Do you think it could be interesting for me to purchase a dual DD with top? If there is some upgrade inside for my system, I can order it no problem, I just want to know what will be the benefit of higher flow rate.
If I change my chassis from a mid tower to a big tower, no problem anymore with that. With this Lian Li X500 chassis I have to put everything outside, also the rads so if i change my chassis I'll take a larger one where I can put 360 and 240 rads inside.
My question is more about performance, I mean what's the benefit of a Dual DDC Plus package versus a Dual D5 package? Except the form factor? I see that you have a lot of experience with Laing pumps, and I need your expertise ;) I also have a question about chilling: bot D5 and DDC pumps are certified for waterchilling? I mean if I add a chilling unit, may I use D5 or DD pumps with dual top or are there any restrictions for that? (beginner inside :))
There's maybe a topic on the forum comparing dual DDC versus dual D5? I did not found that's why I'm asking the question ;) If there's not and if there are some arguments about performance coming from your side for a DDC upgrade from D5, I can order 2x DDC Pumps with a Dual Top (which one?) and compare with my current setup! And yeah... one of my inline temp sensor is dead (my fault... broken cable) so I'll have to change it and at the same time I can compare pumps if really useful.
I mean even if I change my chassis, I want to keep this loop layout dual pump > CPU Waterblock > rad 240 > GPU waterblock > rad 480 (or 360 depending on chassis features) > res > dual pump. One loop. Maybe two why not this is only a question of connecting tubes. And before choosing the new chassis, I have to fix my strategy I mean pump model, chilling or not chilling etc... to make sure not having integration issues.
The dual top for DDC pumps you were talking about some pages before, is that this one http://www.watercool.de/online-shop/ or this one http://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_...oducts_id=2359 ?
u wont see any noticible difference between ddc's and d5's.
The noticible difference tho is the size package.
D5's are big, x2 thats a lot of space.
While as a DDC x 2 on a dual top package is not very big at all.
Theres even front bay dual ddc units.
In your build, i think i would of removed the DVD writter, got an external, move the LCD unit somewhere else, and put in a bay res / dual ddc unit there.
Thank you for your answers ;)
Yeah the flow rate is 400L/hour at the end of the loop:
400 liter / hour = 105.668821 US gallons / hour
6,66 liter / hour = 1,76 US gallons / minute
Loop is configured as described:
D5+D5+Dual Top > Waterblock CPU (Watercool Heatkiller Rev 3 copper) > Radiator 240 (Feser Changer) > Waterblock GPU (EKWB FC-HD5970) > Inline Temp sensor High flow > Radiator 480 (HWlabs Black Ice SR1) > Inline Temp sensor High Flow > Flow meter High Flow > Reservoir > D5+D5...
I hop that like this I get the lowest flow rate, I suppose that I'll get higher results if I put the flow meter between pumps output and CPU Waterblock. The measurement I have now is probably the lowest number.
Well I clearly understand that the main benefit would be the size.
@ NaeKuh: the LCD display is the Aquaero controller, behind this display I have more than 14 cables....(6x thermal sensors, 4x fan power with splitters, 1x flow sensor, 1x molex, 1x emergency power switch, 1x standby power connector, 1x usb cable...). I can remove it from the chassis. But as said I prefer to change my chassis for another one, bigger, where I can mount the radiators (like a Corsair, a LX2000, etc...). But I'll see that later on, for the moment I'm in the testing time, and I try different producs to define what i want to keep and what I want to dismiss ^^
Here a short description of this controller : http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/aq4usbfawh.html
And here a topic in the forum: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=227106
Flow rate is constant through the loop. It will read the same no matter where you put the meter. Pressure is a different matter all together, each component robs a little bit of the available pressure.
Thank you :) It will help for my next build!
Hello,
Here is the photo selection, part 1
Photo 1: jumper to start the ATX power without Mobo. Safe to test a wc loop.
Photo 2: the flow sensor
Photo 3 & 4 : testing setup 1 overview, 1x D5
Photo 5 : back of the D5 for 1st measure @ S1
Here is the photo selection, part 2
Photo 1 : flow rate @ S1
Photo 2 : back of the D5 @ S5
Photo 3 : flow rate @ S5
Photo 4 & 5: test setup 2 with 2x D5
Here is the photo selection, part 3
Photo 1: back of D5 pumps @ S1
Photo 2: flow rate @ S1
Photo 3: back of D5 pumps @ S4
Photo 4 : flow rate @ S4
Photo 5 : back of D5 @ S5
Here is the photo selection, part 4
Photo 1: flow rate with pumps @ S5 (remember that you have to add 650 + 71,43 to have the real flow rate, see my review some posts before)
Photo 2: cyclon appears when both pumps are running @ S5, not before
Photo 3: Dual D5 with EKWB dual top and 60mm reservoir with LINK and Top
Photo 4: Dual D5 with top setup overview
Photo 5: flow rate @ S1
Here is the photo selection, part 5
Photo 1 : Flow Rate with Dual D5 + Dual Top + Res 60mm @ S2
Photo 2 : Flow Rate with Dual D5 + Dual Top + Res 60mm @ S3
Photo 3 : Flow Rate with Dual D5 + Dual Top + Res 60mm @ S4
Photo 4 : Flow Rate with Dual D5 + Dual Top + Res 60mm @ S5
Photo 5 : reservoir until S3 speed, no cyclon, no disturbances
Here is the photo selection, part 6
Photo 1 : 60mm tube on Dual Top @ S4 speed, some air appears
Photo 2: 60mm tube on Dual Top @ S5. more air bubbles but no cyclon
Photo 3 & 4: anti cyclon component placed into the tube
Photo 5 : tube with anti cyclon option @ S5... same result with or without the anti cyclon option
Here is the photo selection, part 7
Photo 1: some vapor appears between the fitting and the tube, it's not hot but probably around 28°C or something. As explained, I use this tubing ONLY for testing or cleaning purposes, otherwise I use 12mm tube, no need for clamps (have a look on the ''productive'' system later on)
Photo 2: 60mm tube on the Dual Top @ S5 after 10 minutes... less air bubbles..
Photo 3: 100mm tube on the Dual Top @ S4 after 1 minute..
Photo 4 : 100mm tube on the Dual Top @ S5 after 10 minutes... no cyclon..
Photo 5 : same thing @ S5 but with less distilled water... no cyclon @ more than 700 liter / hour... in a standard loop I get 400l / hour so it's impossible to get cyclonic effect with this setup...
And the final tsunami ^^ nothing really wrong because it's only distilled water and not the coolant I use for my system, and I was lucky because the tsunami did not reach the interior of the case!!
And finally the ''production' realeased setup in my system with Feser F1 coolant transparent:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1&d=1260640215
Thanks for all that Scaniris. Much appreciated. :up:
Nice performance.
I really would like to see this top vs xspc dual ddc top.
Thats the fight
@Scaniris
Nice man. How tall is the whole setup with the 100mm res on top?
I was running a T3, but it turned my case into a swamp and right now primochill isn't checking their emails. I need a replacement now and I'm thinkin' about this as the extreme option.
I wish the ddc version was available here, I have a couple of them laying around already.
So let me get this straight with the dual top the overall performance gain is roughly 135lph?
Will this reservoir fit the pump top?
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=22142
You need these:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=27439
or
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=25697
and
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=27440
And one like these:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=27442
or
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=27441
or
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=27443
You need also this link:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=25697
or
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=27439
Don't be distracted by the picture... One have one port the other has 2 of them.
Eddy
Thanks for the links but can't seem to find the top. This is going to be one beastly cpu loop when its done.
@Scaniris just curious what was lph with single D5 @ S5? Is that the 586 lph photo?
Well, I got mine setup tonight with just using a single bay res and I have to say I am impressed with the results. Granted you probably get the same results with two DDC's, but I didn't have two of those laying around and after getting the top for only $58, I say it's a winner. I have the EK Supreme Classified block and the Koolance GTX295 block, both seem to be very restrictive and I am finally getting a respectable flow rate of 1.38Gph (Max setting) vs. a single one where I was only getting around .8Gph. As I said before, I am sure that 2 x DDC's would get just as good, maybe even better depending on the tops, but I am not complaining. It bleeds very quickly when sitting with the pump facing up. Now all I need is the res parts to come in and I can finally put this build to rest.
I am having the same exact problem as you UT, thats why I am picking up another D5 and the dual top in hopes to bring up my GPM :)
Here is a sweet deal on them, although it is white, but for the price you may be able to live with it.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10...tl=g30c107s156
$57
I ordered 3 of em :)
I'm rly impressed...I rebuilt my current system and the flow is much better than before though I used 2 single d5 in all my loops.
The top looks super nice!
Hers a link with some info on this top. No English, but some performance graphs.
http://red.ap.teacup.com/kirakishow/87.html
Edit:Translation- http://translate.google.com/translat...en-US:official
So can I use the EK Dual top without a reservoir and use my old reservoir in a 5.25 bay??
I can't find any place on the net to see if I can just put a compression fitting instead of a Reservoir
also, I wanna know can I put this Top on the side making one pump over the other, instead on the pumps side by side?
Thank you
You can. I have the EK 250 res but not directly attatched to the dual D5 pump. It's just hooked up via some hose and BP fittings
~Bex
Wouldn't think it would matter, not a expert on this though.
Think it's ok tbh. Providing the pumps sufficiently get fluid...
~Bex
I like this dual top. My flow rate oscillates between 7.9 to 8.2 LPM (474 to 492 LPH). I suspect that I need to clean a small amount of accumulated "gunk" out of my CPU block in order to keep the flow from oscillating like that.
2.1 gallons per minute? Very respectable flow indeed. What additional waterblocks except EK Supreme HF in your loop?
Does anyone have the dual loop pump top (http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/shop/pu...-acetal.html)?
Does it have mounting holes on the bottom so that i can mount the pumps horizontally instead of vertically?
Thanks
See the installation PDF. You'll see that it has two ways to mount the pump top.
Yeah, i did, but wanted to be sure because they sell the dual pump single loop top with the mounting plates, but not the dual loop pump top
1st this is one of the best topic's and well explained one I have seen. Am new to this water cooling. Am building my 1st water cooling system. I have all ready got 2 D5 because I wanted to setup 2 loops for my pc. But now I like this better one loop and a hole lot of GPM's, may be. I have 2 Swiftech MCP655 and on the spec's it has, Operating voltage range 8 to 24 VDC. Now has any one ran this pump's at 24vdc? And would this give me a better result?
Pointless after 13.1V.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=170217
With that 2x MCP655 Dual Top...Can I run
-360 Radiator (feser)
-240 Radiator (feser)
-140Radiator (Black Ice GTSthealth)
-CPU Block
-MOBO block
-WaterBlock for hd 5850
-Another Block for HD 5850
Bump for last post??? Cant find answers anywhere else
So you think I can run all those block and rads .
3 Radiators
-Feser 360
-Feser 240
-Black Ice 140
4 waterBlocks
-CPU HK 3.0
-Asus R3E full block
-2xEK 5850 Blocks?
This is my actual setup, I want to add Full Motherboard Block, a 140mm Rad and maybe another EK HD 5850 waterBlock (Graphic Card)
http://i48.tinypic.com/29lfpk7.jpg
Im using 2xMCP655 Swiftech Pumps on the EK dual Top.
I only have one 90' adapter on my 240 rad inlet. The others are rotary 45' and 90' degress, I'll have 4 snakes
1 like this
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...WTP-C39_01.jpg
and a couple like this (7-8)
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...CPF-CC5_01.jpg
I think I'll add the other 140 radiator along with the full mobo waterblock.
Any issues with mounting this thing vertically?
Johnny, 355's have higher head pressure than D5's. Depending on the rads, you might even be able to pull that of with a single 355.
i was about to pull the trigger on buying an EK dual d5 top until i found this: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11...tl=g30c107s156
Looks awesome, though could this could be used as well :D?