Phenom 9500 w/ MSI K9A2 Platinum

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Originally Posted by dr_drache

no benchmarks that i can post, but i KNOW that i was getting near 1900 in the winrar test, it was stock running, no matter what i tryed. switched because I saw that a 790FX chipset may be better for me for tweaking (kinda irked about lack of SLI, but i'll live) love love this crosshair sitting on my desk :P

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It should be a little better for RD790. Check here, this is what you should be getting at stock (end): http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=1215

On X64, it should be more because X64 has access to higher memory bandwidth. Recheck that CPUZ 1.44.1 is reading dual channel. Post your Memset latencies next time you run it too. What WinRAR shows is essentially your memory bandwidth.

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i'll look into it, not really looking into formatting again, will if it needs it. will attempt to build a new iso with vlite, see if i can get a promise raid driver intagrated right this time. as soon as i decide on the format, i'll switch back to trying P0H.

UPDATE :
i think i may got an issue, my 0xc0011023 doesn't match

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Copy all the register EDX and EAX but for the 22. Change that to 20 and writeMSR for each core. Check multi-threaded and make sure something else is not heavily taking up your memory.

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UPDATE #2 : flashed 113, did BOTH register changes and got :
http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i1611527_bnc.jpg

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1.13B doesn't have any patch. Post me a screenshot of AMD Power Monitor, CPU-Z CPU, Mainboard, Memory, SPD tabs and Memset altogether please when you run this bench (make sure either the pic is resized to less than 1024x768 or thumbnailed). Your RAM perf. there is like Athlon 64 X2 5000+ BE rather than how Phenom should be.

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Originally Posted by Mathos

Hmmm, so if I'm understanding this right, does P0H have the ability to disable the TLB fix? Or does it only disable it for one core?

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When you choose disabled, it's only disabled on the 1st core and not on the other 3 = bad perf.

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Originally Posted by Suosaaski

I might test that when I get back home.

By the way, do you happen to have any idea why AOD shows my memory is in single channel mode?

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Always does, an AOD bug. Check in latest CPU-Z, if it shows dual channel, it'll be dual channel. ;)

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And I was to understand BIOS 1.1 would not have the TLB-fix, howcome it gets the same performance as the newer ones?

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Looks like you ran it single threaded and not started by ticking the multi-threaded box (?).

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Originally Posted by KTE

Looks like you ran it single threaded and not started by ticking the multi-threaded box (?).

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The multithread was selected by default.

PS. Ever since I first installed BIOS 1.2, I think the performance went down and never came back up even with 1.1. At least in 3dmark. Almost like the TLB-fix would stay there no matter what. Or something else is wrong.

^Post your config screenshots and details please.
Also post your temperatures and powersupply.

Make sure you've flashed using the parameters I stated because these are BETA ( /p /b /n /c). The only way you could get that perf. using Phenom is if something was wrong.

-To check TLB errata patch, just download CrystalCPUID, Function>open MSR Editor>type MSR number: 0xc0010015 and press RDMSR.
-Read the EAX register, it should end in 10. If not post back what it shows.
-Then change core to 2/4, 3/4, 4/4 using the drop down in CCPUID upper right corner and for each one press RDMSR again and read the value (note it).

-Next, type 0xc0011023 in the MSR number box and hit RDMSR again for each core.
-Check EAX now ends with 20 and if not, post back what it does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

^Post your config screenshots and details please.
Also post your temperatures and powersupply.

Make sure you've flashed using the parameters I stated because these are BETA ( /p /b /n /c). The only way you could get that perf. using Phenom is if something was wrong.

-To check TLB errata patch, just download CrystalCPUID, Function>open MSR Editor>type MSR number: 0xc0010015 and press RDMSR.
-Read the EAX register, it should end in 10. If not post back what it shows.
-Then change core to 2/4, 3/4, 4/4 using the drop down in CCPUID upper right corner and for each one press RDMSR again and read the value (note it).

-Next, type 0xc0011023 in the MSR number box and hit RDMSR again for each core.
-Check EAX now ends with 20 and if not, post back what it does.

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I'll try to flash BIOS 1.1 when I get back home and check those values then. Will also check them with current values for 1.0B1 (which has the option to disable TLB-fix) and P0H probably too.

My config is as follows:
MSI K9A2 Platinum
OCZ Platinum DDR2-800MHz, 4 * 1GB
AMD Phenom 9600 Black Edition, stock cooler: idle @30-32C, load with prime, under 50C (fan ramps up from 50% at 45 degrees, set from BIOS)
MSI HD3870-OC
Western Digital 250GB SATA
Antec NeoHE 550W PSU

That's half of it at least. Why I'm after a detailed screenshot is in important detail you'll miss typing and easier in pics. ;)

These:

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Post me a screenshot of AMD Power Monitor, CPU-Z CPU, Mainboard, Memory, SPD tabs and Memset altogether please when you run this bench (make sure either the pic is resized to less than 1024x768 or thumbnailed).

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If you can check your RAM Drive Strength using EVEREST then do that too.

3DMark'06 CPU:
XP 32b, Phenom at 2652MHz low NB/HT, loose timings, 2k6 CPU score:

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/3...t2k6rl2.th.png

Use it as a comparative as it's totally untweaked. I was testing low volts stability there with a low card.

And to update on Vista X64:
A user here is running 257x11 on 32b and 255x11 64b in Vista with Phenom and the MSI RD790 daily stable. ASUS RD790 needed more volts to run the same oc.
BUT, this user experienced behavior the same as my chips have done. Before his chip could not oc past 240HT at all, completely impossible for it to, would reboot with instability. Now, it goes much past fully stable, after many weeks of use.

havin hard time to set my mem timings to 4-4-4-12 had a four sticks of corsair mems, 9500 phenom set my vdimm already @ 2.1v NB to 1.2v... :shrug:

my system wont boot at windows either...

Try only 2 sticks madfaze.

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Originally Posted by KTE

Try only 2 sticks madfaze.

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ok try it later when i got home :D


how about the NB volt?should i adjust it too...pretty weird it also hangs during POST and adjusting it in the bios...


highest i could get so far 228 fsb at stock vcore...

OK then.

Any of you guys miss this? http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/080304/20080304005451.html?.v=1

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5152/amd45sl4.jpg

Deneb and Shanghai are up and running multiple OS and stress apps perfectly, shown at CeBIT. Didn't I tell you they have the chips working early Feb.? :p:
And yet, one sided trolls obviously were hurt there. :shakes:

Now, no hype. They just have a chip running, nothing much you can say about that but that they've made one function the basic logic. Still doesn't mean nothing about the timeline. ;)

Great news,i saw it in NEws section.Still we have some powerful spintel trolls to bash AMD even for this :p: .
My guess is Q3 for shipping parts :).Q4 for top freq. bin.

Anyhow,just found this here:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screen...3/DSC_2297.JPG

2 additional speed bins of Phenoms (B3) come in April and May :).I guess these will be 2.4 and 2.5 in April,followed by 2.6 and 2.8GHz(AM2+ FX part?).Note the plural used in both instances on the roadmap ;),so it means at least 2 speed bins per month,and since we have now 2.3Ghz i guess it means the speeds will be the ones i wrote.Let's hope they are,it would imply more easier 3Ghz mark for OCing. :)

Well... they're 2.4G and the 2.6G parts that we know of, then the FX parts late Q2/Q3. They may launch two FX models, one followed by another and that depends on many things including B3 tweaks and TDP gains. FX82 and FX84.

They do have Agena FX 2P too BTW, just search and you'll see it has been shown for long. But it was scrapped for mass production till the late steppings or 45nm, not the least because they didn't have the resources to continue with all the problems to fix K10h, tight schedule and 55nm/45nm efforts. So far, they've turned things drastically around in GPU, chipsets and IGP, CPU to go.

Yeah i know it was shown since last year,but i was thinking about common "poor man's version" of FX ,for AM2+.
2P is too narrow (profit wise) for them to be concentrated on it.With Deneb FX they can finally address this segment since the chip will be a lot smaller(and faster,IPC and freq. wise).
I can't wait for Shanghai revision,that will be my next upgrade :).Till then i'm perfectly happy with my X2 ;).

ok, i did as you asked KTE, all those windows open, and I had crystalCPU open to show that the registers are 18, not 10 as if it was not TLB patched...

(all images are resized to 1024/600)

first one without patching :
http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/...8_fullinfo.png

2nd screen shot, only thing changed are the MSR's
http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/..._fullinfo2.png

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Originally Posted by KTE

That's half of it at least. Why I'm after a detailed screenshot is in important detail you'll miss typing and easier in pics. ;)

These:

If you can check your RAM Drive Strength using EVEREST then do that too.

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Here's with BIOS version 1.1:
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/1...arbenchvo5.jpg

And here with P0H:
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2...enchp0hja1.jpg

Forgot the SPD tab, will get new screenshots with it and I'll also download the trial for Everest to show the RAM Drive Strength when I get back home.

All tests done at default settings. The OS version is Vista Ultimate 32-bit with Service Pack 1.

PS. Will check the CrystalCPUID values too later today.

Received a new BIOS version from MSI (P0J) after asking for a modified P0H that disables the fix for all cores instead of just the first. I'll test it later today.

Latest EVEREST: http://www.lavalys.com/beta/everestu...ori5j1htcv.zip

Sorts out random clock/temperature jumps and now shows Phenom 9500/9600 separate to Phenom 9600 BE. Top result I included just to show you a difference of 11x200 NB multi (top one) and the rest are all 9x NB multi. ;)

Attachment 73496

790FX board popularity so far... price sells, MSI MB sold out in many places >

Attachment 73495

MSI K9A2 Plat. V2 is just a down-featured revision of V1. It is cheaper and has a lower MSRP than the V1 too, as I had expected.

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Originally Posted by dr_drache

ok, i did as you asked KTE, all those windows open, and I had crystalCPU open to show that the registers are 18, not 10 as if it was not TLB patched...

(all images are resized to 1024/600)

first one without patching :
2nd screen shot, only thing changed are the MSR's

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Very well. Now that perf. is on par with what I expect. Vista is poor in many things and SP1 is actually much slower for memory/IMC intensive tasks than no SP1 in Vista. The guys getting very poor performance compared to XP is because of their SP1 upgrade and because of Vista itself.

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Originally Posted by Suosaaski

Here's with BIOS version 1.1:
And here with P0H:

All tests done at default settings. The OS version is Vista Ultimate 32-bit with Service Pack 1.

PS. Will check the CrystalCPUID values too later today.

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OK. Thanks. That's definitely patched.

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Originally Posted by Suosaaski

Received a new BIOS version from MSI (P0J) after asking for a modified P0H that disables the fix for all cores instead of just the first. I'll test it later today.

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Can you host the file somewhere please and link it back here. :)
I'm the one who told them how to disable it when they didn't know and yet I don't even get the BIOS.

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Originally Posted by KTE

OK. Thanks. That's definitely patched.
Can you host the file somewhere please and link it back here. :)
I'm the one who told them how to disable it when they didn't know and yet I don't even get the BIOS.

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Sorry, I don't have a place to host it.

It's on their FTP server now, you just need to ask for a password via http://ocss.msi.com.tw/ or I can send it to you via e-mail if you wan't.

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Originally Posted by Suosaaski

Sorry, I don't have a place to host it.

It's on their FTP server now, you just need to ask for a password via http://ocss.msi.com.tw/ or I can send it to you via e-mail if you wan't.

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You can host it here for free: http://www.yourfilehost.com/flash_upload.php

Then link back :)

Waiting for their reply will take too long or PM me the password if you have it.

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Originally Posted by KTE

You can host it here for free: http://www.yourfilehost.com/flash_upload.php

Then link back :)

Waiting for their reply will take too long or PM me the password if you have it.

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I'll check it out.

@Suosaaski

did you already installed the BIOS?


are experiencing any BSOD?


some peeps @ MSI Forums are experiencing BSODs


check it here

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Originally Posted by madfaze

@Suosaaski

did you already installed the BIOS?


are experiencing any BSOD?


some peeps @ MSI Forums are experiencing BSODs


check it here

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Nope, not yet. That seems to... suck. I wonder if I'll install it or not.

They give no details how or what they did. They can easily boot using UBCD4Win or Debug Mode and check the debug logs to see what is wrong. It's not necessarily the BIOS according to that info.

Secondly, that BIOS incase you didn't now is an AMD release BIOS for testing purposes only, dubbed "Performance BIOS".

I'm flashing it in ~20 mins.

some of my test runs at stock vcore, bios p0h


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...cachemem-1.png


image 1

image 2

image 3

image 4

image 5


validation

http://valid.x86-secret.com/cache/banner/324918.png


do i have to lower HT speed?:D

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Originally Posted by KTE

Secondly, that BIOS incase you didn't now is an AMD release BIOS for testing purposes only, dubbed "Performance BIOS".

I'm flashing it in ~20 mins.

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Yup, I knew that. I have the P0H for daily use, works fine so far.

Let us know how it works for you.

how was the new bios KTE?:)

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Originally Posted by KTE

^Post your config screenshots and details please.
Also post your temperatures and powersupply.

Make sure you've flashed using the parameters I stated because these are BETA ( /p /b /n /c). The only way you could get that perf. using Phenom is if something was wrong.

-To check TLB errata patch, just download CrystalCPUID, Function>open MSR Editor>type MSR number: 0xc0010015 and press RDMSR.
-Read the EAX register, it should end in 10. If not post back what it shows.
-Then change core to 2/4, 3/4, 4/4 using the drop down in CCPUID upper right corner and for each one press RDMSR again and read the value (note it).

-Next, type 0xc0011023 in the MSR number box and hit RDMSR again for each core.
-Check EAX now ends with 20 and if not, post back what it does.

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Bad news (BIOS P0J):
The first tests: First core ends 10, the rest 18
The second values: First core ends 20, the rest 22

So, that means that for P0J it is disabled for the first core only, too. Am I right?

PS. Need to re-check, seems AOD messes with it a bit, at least changing from "red" to green results in the first core reporting 18 and 22 too...

PPS. Slightly off topic (but still within the topic of the thread), I do like the fact that with P0J (don't remember how it was with P0H) I don't have to mess with P-States anymore, as there is simply the option for cpu multiplier... might try overclocking via bios now...

PPPS. Doesn't seem to do anything wether I set it to enabled or disabled ("AMD's TLB-fix") via BIOS, it reads 18 and 22 for every core, and with AOD at "red" only the first core reads 10 and 20. AOD at "green" or "yellow" reads 18 and 22 for all cores.

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Originally Posted by Suosaaski

Bad news (BIOS P0J):
The first tests: First core ends 10, the rest 18
The second values: First core ends 20, the rest 22

So, that means that for P0J it is disabled for the first core only, too. Am I right?

PS. Need to re-check, seems AOD messes with it a bit, at least changing from "red" to green results in the first core reporting 18 and 22 too...

PPS. Slightly off topic (but still within the topic of the thread), I do like the fact that with P0J (don't remember how it was with P0H) I don't have to mess with P-States anymore, as there is simply the option for cpu multiplier... might try overclocking via bios now...

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have you upload the bios file that KTE posted?so that we can have a copy too...:D

Tested BIOS P0J. The best performance BIOS is 1.13 BETA and then P0H after manual disabling using the tool I linked in the first post, so let's compare with it at exact same clocks, background, timings and so on.

V1.13:
Attachment 73504

VP0J:
Attachment 73505

Bugs fixed
*HT can now be chosen in BIOS and set.
*All RAM dividers and timings work fine.
*TLB patch is completely enabled/disabled with the BIOS option. :)
*Checked the registers, all are changed.

Runs fine, I booted and have been running my 2665 settings since about 40mins now. I told you don't believe rumors. :p:

Problems
*One hex value in the C001_1023 MSR is Ah instead of 2h now. This might be what causes lower performance (I'll check).
*As you can see above, the memory/IMC performs lower, slower all round than 1.13 or any other BIOS where you disable patch manually. In the below screenshot my older 2665 run is exactly the same in every setting as my new 2665 run (shown as 2666). The old is BIOS P0H ran just before flashing new BIOS and the new is BIOS P0J both without the patch (checked registers manually).

Attachment 73506

Big difference here and in latencies even though I actually had a lower MaxAsyncLatency value here than in the older P0H 2665 run. :yepp:

So, it is slower, offers lower performance than older BIOSes but has the TLB patch option to disable properly within the BIOS. Still should work flawless for many.

If you have problems, then it's probably your flash technique, as is with most users. You have to use the / pbnc parameters I stated or old BIOS values may be retained.

EDIT: Just seen your above post Suosaaski. You seem to have flashed using the wrong method. Check mine, it works, all registers change. :)
Which OS you on?

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Originally Posted by KTE

If you have problems, then it's probably your flash technique, as is with most users. You have to use the / pbnc parameters I stated or old BIOS values may be retained.

EDIT: Just seen your above post Suosaaski. You seem to have flashed using the wrong method. Check mine, it works, all registers change. :)
Which OS you on?

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OS is Vista Ultimate 32-bit with SP1

I flashed using the following options

afud412 a7376ams.110 /p /b /n /c

And still I get values 18 and 22 there... even with BIOS 1.1. I need to recheck the flash options... does it matter if it has spaces between the options etc... :(

Edit: Nah, doesn't even work if I remove the spaces in between. :(

Edit2: I'm starting to suspect it this has something to do with Vista. Especially SP1. I'll install XP and see if things change... Anyone think TLB-fix might be built into Vista SP1? And thus even with a BIOS without an option to disable it, would in fact have it enabled?

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Originally Posted by Suosaaski

OS is Vista Ultimate 32-bit with SP1

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I think I've commented on that note already. :D
It's known to be a very bad performer, esp. MEM/IMC perf.

Uninstall SP1 or doubt that's changeable. Meanwhile you can use the app. I linked at the start of the thread to disable it.

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afud412 a7376ams.110 /p /b /n /c

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That's right (for BIOS 1.10), yup. BIOS is fine then, it's Vista SP1.

1.1 doesn't have patch, if you get those values, then Vista SP1 has it instead.

thanks Suosaaski got your messsage

Installed XP 32-bit. Good news.

With BIOS 1.1 all values read 10 and 20 instead of 18 and 22.

Performance with the WinRAR bench went up to a bit under 1800KB/s (no optimizations, RAM at default 800MHz CL5, clean install, no drivers and so on).

So, even though I did not test with Vista without SP1 thoroughly, I did earlier notice that my performance went down for some reason (I got higher 3dmarks etc, with Vista RTM), just didn't figure out what caused it... seems it was SP1 and TLB-fix.

My conclusion is simply that SP1 for Vista enables the TLB-fix via software, so regardless of BIOS-version it is enabled... unless bypassed via software (like AOD, which disables it for first core only, though). I should also test with Vista RTM, but since SP1 is coming, performance eventually goes down.

Hope it is not included with XP SP3. Anyone tried the test versions of SP3 to check this out?

hmmm updated my bios to p0h, had the 9500 phenom how come the multiplier seems unlocked up to x25 multi?!? can i use that for OC? thought 9500 is locked to x13 multi..

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Originally Posted by Suosaaski

Hope it is not included with XP SP3. Anyone tried the test versions of SP3 to check this out?

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Nope. SP3 is better and quicker than SP2. I've used both. ;)
Vista was known to be messed up this way even though Microsoft did not state anything as such in their logs. We need initiatives where they are fined if they withhold such information we can clarify. :yepp:

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Originally Posted by madfaze

hmmm updated my bios to p0h, had the 9500 phenom how come the multiplier seems unlocked up to x25 multi?!? can i use that for OC? thought 9500 is locked to x13 multi..

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Options or if chosen doesn't mean it works. It just doesn't change multi's above max multi the CPU can run which are: 11x CPU, 9x NB, 9x HT for yours. ;)

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Originally Posted by KTE

Options or if chosen doesn't mean it works. It just doesn't change multi's above max multi the CPU can run which are: 11x CPU, 9x NB, 9x HT for yours. ;)

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i manage to change 11.5, 200fsb and it OCed to 2300mhz accrding to cpuid... :D

one thing i notice can i change my NB setting to x13 or is this the HT speed?am running it to auto..

when i change it to x13 NB frequency reading is 2600mhz and HT speed is 1800mhz, is this normal?

any chance i can get P0J from someone to see if i can make it work? (on accound P0H still causes BSOD even with new install)

edit : i don't know if i even should.. hmmm

Hmmm does the new P0J bios have the option to change nb/IMC multi again? And possibly voltage/vid if needed? I may consider updating to that one since the TLB fix can be fully disabled. Granted as far as NB volts go I shouldn't have much issue since I was doing 2.4 at stock VID before.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by madfaze

i manage to change 11.5, 200fsb and it OCed to 2300mhz accrding to cpuid... :D

one thing i notice can i change my NB setting to x13 or is this the HT speed?am running it to auto..

when i change it to x13 NB frequency reading is 2600mhz and HT speed is 1800mhz, is this normal?

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Pretty normal, a known bug. ;)

Check AMD OverDrive and see what real values it reads :p:
If it changed, then it would read what they read for mine.
Also even better, benchmark it.

Why was your HT stuck at 9x? Because so is your NB. ;)
Start AOD, you won't be able to move HT plus 9x because your NB is only 9x real. If you actually moved it up, the HT will move up along with it. We've been through this many times in this and many other threads.

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Originally Posted by dr_drache

any chance i can get P0J from someone to see if i can make it work? (on accound P0H still causes BSOD even with new install)

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On MSI site for a while, but courtesy of Suosaaski: http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.ph...e=A7376AMS.P0J

Your own liability entirely.

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Originally Posted by Mathos

Hmmm does the new P0J bios have the option to change nb/IMC multi again? And possibly voltage/vid if needed? I may consider updating to that one since the TLB fix can be fully disabled. Granted as far as NB volts go I shouldn't have much issue since I was doing 2.4 at stock VID before.

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Nope.

On a side note, while underclocking using MSR values, have a look at this using decimal multiplier and DID. Very very very slow, took long to save a basic 200KB image, about 45 seconds.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1171/162wh7.png

Attachment 73574

Attachment 73575


Lowest underclock? Quite low that, it crashed very soon after the 1M run due to changing volts past 0.850/1.038. Power for that idle and load differed 2W AC. :lol2:

Anyway, I've tested very slow, observantly and hard. I's true, my 4th core is the weak link and by far. Any time my system freezes or reboots, it's the 4th core spiking and getting stuck at full load. Luckily the 4th core is not needed for much at all. When I tested stability with high NB volts and higher CPU volts not gaming/lengthy testing on just core3 but on all others, for over 15hrs now, I've had no failure or error. This is what I'm running since then.

Attachment 73577

Xbit Labs article:

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Originally Posted by K10h roadmap

In the end of March – beginning of April AMD is going to introduce its Perseus platform offering great stability, manageability, security and low power consumption for commercial environments. Perseus platform is regarded as a primary competitor to Intel's vPro platform. It will include quad-, triple-, and dual-core processors based on AMD's K10 and K8 architectures, integrated chipsets from the 780 series announced yesterday and optional graphics cards from R6XX family working in Hybrid Graphics mode. It is important to specifically stress Hardcastle technology dealing with security and management that should strengthen Perseus positions in the commercial market even more.

After that in the first half of April AMD is going to introduce a few quad-core Phenom processor models based on B3 core stepping and free from the notorious TLB bug. We should see Phenom 9650 and Phenom 9550 working at 2.3 and 2.2GHz frequencies respectively. At the same time the first triple-core Phenom 8600 and Phenom 8400 processor should also come out. They will at first be based on B2 core stepping and work at 2.3 and 2.1GHz frequencies respectively. All these four new processors will feature 95W TDP.

The second half of April will be remarkable due to upcoming Cartwheel platform launch that should represent mainstream performance, immersive HD and upgradeability. This platform is in fact available since the launch of 780 chipset series, because it uses mainboards based on these chipsets, processors and optional R6XX graphics cards. However, the key feature of the upcoming Cartwheel platform is in fact AMD LIVE! Technology support offering media-centric computing experience that connects and extends the digital world by means of special software.

In May AMD is going to continue expanding the frequency potential of their quad- and triple-core processors. They are expected to launch quad-core Phenom 9850 with 2.5GHz frequency and 125W TDP and Phenom 9750 with 2.4GHz nominal frequency and 95W TDP. New triple-core CPUs, just like their quad-core counterparts will start using B3 core stepping. As for the particular CPU models, we should see Phenom 8750, Phenom 8650 and Phenom 8450 with 95W TDP and 2.4, 2.3 and 2.1GHz respective frequencies.

The new mobile Puma platform is scheduled to be launched in June. It is expected to ensure best-in-class experience and performance-per-watt for consumer/commercial notebook users. Puma will include a new "Griffin" dual-core processor, an RS780M chipset with DirectX 10-class integrated graphics, a 55nm M8x mobile graphics processor, and support for the PC management software. The platform will also feature PowerXpress technology which allows the system to switch between external and integrated graphics when changing between AC and DC power without the need for a reboot. Also, Hybrid CrossfireX allows the integrated graphics hardware to work in tandem with the separate graphics controller to offer more power for gamers.

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Catalyst 8.3 for Vista 32b: http://downloads.guru3d.com/AMD-ATI-...load-1871.html

Supposed to be the revolutionary driver, CrossFireX, Hybrid Tech, etc. ;)

which phenom has a good batch?the one ive been testing was 0743 FBPW... is this a good batch?

0743 are very good, should do 2.75G benchable at least. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

0743 are very good, should do 2.75G benchable at least. ;)

---

really?! stock vcore?!

cool...:up:


not tested so far cause i had an isue with our board specially on the link width of pcie..sometimes it read out x4 only (instead of x16)...do you happen to experiece that too?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

On a side note, while underclocking using MSR values, have a look at this using decimal multiplier and DID. Very very very slow, took long to save a basic 200KB image, about 45 seconds.
Lowest underclock? Quite low that, it crashed very soon after the 1M run due to changing volts past 0.850/1.038. Power for that idle and load differed 2W AC. :lol2:

---

Thanks for the update, thought higher DID's than one (2x) did not work. Tried 600MHz with success. 300MHz also works but it's too slow.
For the record, 0.85V VID was lowest stable for you, no matter what freq?

Update:
broke 100W ground here :)
http://www.abload.de/thumb/96acc2b.jpg
96.3W AC idle

100MHz (0x48009500)
http://www.abload.de/thumb/100dh0.jpg

Can switch between 100MHz/0.625V and 2.6GHz/1.3625V via reg c0010062h without problems.

UPDATE: 500MHZ/0.7V is somewhat comparable to by old celeron laptop at 600MHz, still onyl 97W AC consumption in idle. I like the higher DID's. ;)

There's a new BIOS, not sure about what it brings. Will try it and see: A7376ACI.101

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by madfaze

really?! stock vcore?!

cool...:up:

---

Air, if cooled, it will bench 2.7G stock volts. I tried two of them, both did, others had some which did the best so far too, some above 3G. ;)

Quote:

---

not tested so far cause i had an isue with our board specially on the link width of pcie..sometimes it read out x4 only (instead of x16)...do you happen to experiece that too?!

---

Nope, first time hearing it. Set PCIe speed to Auto in BIOS and see what happens.

Which PCIe are you using BTW? Use the one closest to the CPU.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justapost

Thanks for the update, thought higher DID's than one (2x) did not work. Tried 600MHz with success. 300MHz also works but it's too slow.
For the record, 0.85V VID was lowest stable for you, no matter what freq?

---

I haven't had any time to try things, only tried 2-3. I was at 207MHz HT and so couldn't try lower, had much work open so not sure. I just left volts as they were for previous 800MHz CnQ setting
I read some ignorant individual online saying AMD Phenom has problems that it can only go to 800MHz power saving, and it's obvious he had no clue what he was talking about, so we proved him wrong. :shakes:

400MHz is fully stable, even 150MHz was fully stable switching between ~150MHz to 2691MHz. I never tried lower yet.
I think we're making very good ground here Achim, excellent tweakers chip its become. :up:
It looks to be too complicated a chip for too many out there to get most out of though.

You're right, below 400MHz gets slow, jitters and stutters. 400MHz seems like best CnQ option to run and that's what I've been running since my last post. I also have 3rd core downclocked (13x core 0,1,2 and 12.5x core3). This is what I'm running for a day now:

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2...5871225uw2.png


Enable CnQ:
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7508/4000625dt4.png

Quote:

---

Update:
broke 100W ground here :)
http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=96acc2b.jpg
96.3W AC idle

100MHz (0x48009500)
http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=100dh0.jpg

Can switch between 100MHz/0.625V and 2.6GHz/1.3625V via reg c0010062h without problems.

UPDATE: 500MHZ/0.7V is somewhat comparable to by old celeron laptop at 600MHz, still onyl 97W AC consumption in idle. I like the higher DID's. ;)

---

Nice, glad you got below 100W, finally :p:

I am idling 93W AC with the above CnQ config (2xHDD,1xOptical,2xfans). Same as 800MHz/0.850V-1800/1.038. Which means, the power consumption for CPU at the 1GHz mark idling is negligible and most of the AC power is the rest of the system. Phenom at 200MHz/0.600V idle cannot be consuming much power at all, it won't even be 10W DC IMHO.

Quick calc: 95*((200/2300)*(0.600²/1.232²))
= 1.959W TDP :yepp:

So CPU alone will have very low power idle at those settings, the rest will be nearly all other system component power. That's why CPU power is not going down much and neither is CPU temperature. ;)

That's kinda incredible that it can run stable from 100-2700MHz, no core that I know has done that or given the user the ability to run CnQ in such a way. BTW I have the Abit 770 and the GBT Odin since a few hours now. Going to set it up morning, too busy now before sleep. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

There's a new BIOS, not sure about what it brings. Will try it and see: A7376ACI.101

---

It's supposedly 1.3 with option for TLB-fix disable. I asked for MSI with an option in BIOS for it and they uploaded that BIOS to their FTP-server a few days ago.

I am not sure what it is based on though, my guess is 1.3.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Suosaaski

I'll try to flash BIOS 1.1 when I get back home and check those values then. Will also check them with current values for 1.0B1 (which has the option to disable TLB-fix) and P0H probably too.

---

That bolded one...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

Nope, first time hearing it. Set PCIe speed to Auto in BIOS and see what happens.

Which PCIe are you using BTW? Use the one closest to the CPU.

---

yup i always use the first mezzanine the one nearest to pcie, have to reseated to bring x16..well its my first time too, wish they had a locked in it...

Guys, some needed updates and news:)

Switch to EVEREST Ultimate Build 1315, it fixes wrong clocks/multi detection issue for Phenom: http://www.lavalys.com/beta/everestu...s6wdlkn2cx.zip

Switch to Catalyst 8.3 (with Southbridge drivers), quad-fire working fully and many many improvements featured: http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx

Latest AMD CPU Info: http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/..._15259,00.html

AMD has supplied a Phenom with TLB Fix working in BIOS compatibility list for AM2+ and AM2 motherboards, details: http://techreport.com/discussions.x/14288

Here's the list AMD provided from their own testing and that of MB MFGs:

Attachment 73643

I have the Abit AX78 here so I can check that to confirm what the MB MFG says. All those run Phenom perfectly at stock too by AMD and/or MB MFG testing.

It's getting better and better, as expected, AMD is supporting us well. :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

I have the Abit AX78 here so I can check that to confirm what the MB MFG says. All those run Phenom perfectly at stock too by AMD and/or MB MFG testing.

It's getting better and better, as expected, AMD is supporting us well. :up:

---

how was AX78 doin?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by madfaze

how was AX78 doin?

---

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...6&postcount=50

Can't put my own X4 into it because I'm testing some software/tweaks on it yet in the MSI. Tested it using someone else's 96BE. ;)

Can you shed some light on Vista 64 and this board's not wanting to play nice together? I need 4+ gigs of RAM, but I can't afford a crashing computer either. Will the new drivers do anything?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

I read some ignorant individual online saying AMD Phenom has problems that it can only go to 800MHz power saving, and it's obvious he had no clue what he was talking about, so we proved him wrong. :shakes:

---

Ah looking at your screenies 0.625 also works for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

400MHz is fully stable, even 150MHz was fully stable switching between ~150MHz to 2691MHz. I never tried lower yet.
I think we're making very good ground here Achim, excellent tweakers chip its become. :up:

---

The high power consumption due to overclocking in idle always bothered me. With a tweaked ps-1 this is no problem anymore.
p-state tweaking is also neat for testing individual cores, even with cnq. As soon as you remove the load you are save.
Gonna try to enable more than two p-states this weekend if i find the time, also have a small gui app in the works, might take a week, can work an hour max per day on that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

I am idling 93W AC with the above CnQ config (2xHDD,1xOptical,2xfans). Same as 800MHz/0.850V-1800/1.038. Which means, the power consumption for CPU at the 1GHz mark idling is negligible and most of the AC power is the rest of the system. Phenom at 200MHz/0.600V idle cannot be consuming much power at all, it won't even be 10W DC IMHO.

Quick calc: 95*((200/2300)*(0.600²/1.232²))
= 1.959W TDP :yepp:

So CPU alone will have very low power idle at those settings, the rest will be nearly all other system component power. That's why CPU power is not going down much and neither is CPU temperature. ;)

---

Now with those low cpu TDP the difference in AC shrinks, you have one hd more that might make 5W max difference. Gigabyte PSU should arive here next week. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

That's kinda incredible that it can run stable from 100-2700MHz, no core that I know has done that or given the user the ability to run CnQ in such a way. BTW I have the Abit 770 and the GBT Odin since a few hours now. Going to set it up morning, too busy now before sleep. :D

---

Wonder in what degree the cpu will suffer from higher voltage and temperature differences over time.
But having different p-state profiles for manual switching will come in handy here.

Guys, you'll have to excuse me with time because my systems have all failed to boot. No idea why. It happened when I tried changing PSU.

Phenom is not booting at all in MSI or Abit board with 3 different PSUs, same problem as before when you switch power off (defaults), stuck in reboot cycle. Spent 4 hours on it.

Gigabyte PSU is totally DOA on all boards. Tried 4 boards, MEM/CPU doesn't even start.

Two C2 systems also no boot with those 3 PSUs but luckily an older P4 worked with the Antec and the Seasonic which I'm posting off right now. Spent hours troubleshooting this. :(

At least the P4 idles 55W AC. :D

Achim: Download GBT 550W PSU guide here, there is no guide but on CD in box and you might find trouble installing it (it has many things): http://america.giga-byte.com/FileLis...s800a-d1_e.pdf

Kayin: Check the new BIOS, it should have added compatibility with Vista 64b for many RAMs. I'll check later on what is officially supported. The problem is mainly BIOS for support.

Well, my initial findings just in the last few mins after updating to P0j seem to be good. The disable option for the TLB fix works. Was getting around 1596KB/s on winrar at stock speeds, and 1684KB/s while running the cores at 2.6ghz. If I could set the NB/IMC up to 2.4 like I had with 1.1b3 I could probably get back above 2000Kb/s. I notice the HT can be set now, I'm wondering, does changing that also raise the NB/IMC multi to match?

OCing the cores seems to be going a lot smoother, even with C&Q enabled in bios. Switched the multi up to 13x, disabled spread spectrum and boot into windows fine, started up everest beta1316 without issues too. Before when I was OCing with 1.1b3 it would stall for a second at the loading drivers part then continue. But this one has given me no issue so far. Even left cpu voltage at default in bios, Everest is reading at 1.24v core, which is stock when not in idle mode. But it's showing the VID as 1.250v in AMD pow mon. Among other good news things, the new beta of Everest actually reads my voltages properly, so my 12v rail is show at 12.67v like it does in bios instead of 8.1v like it was before.

I think what I'm gonna do is bug MSI's customer support thing, and see if I can get em to put together a bios that allows for NB/IMC clock and voltage changes like the ones that had the p-states section. Since apparently thats how that ACI.101 bios came about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

Guys, you'll have to excuse me with time because my systems have all failed to boot. No idea why. It happened when I tried changing PSU.

Phenom is not booting at all in MSI or Abit board with 3 different PSUs, same problem as before when you switch power off (defaults), stuck in reboot cycle. Spent 4 hours on it.

Gigabyte PSU is totally DOA on all boards. Tried 4 boards, MEM/CPU doesn't even start.

Two C2 systems also no boot with those 3 PSUs but luckily an older P4 worked with the Antec and the Seasonic which I'm posting off right now. Spent hours troubleshooting this. :(

At least the P4 idles 55W AC. :D

Achim: Download GBT 550W PSU guide here, there is no guide but on CD in box and you might find trouble installing it (it has many things): http://america.giga-byte.com/FileLis...s800a-d1_e.pdf

---

Sounds like a weird weekend start over there. Thank you for the guide, with luck the psu will arrrive today. Have you tried what's described in there at the last page.

sidenote, sounds like the monitoring can be done on a different pc, as i hoped. :)

Celeron system idles at 43W AC here atm. :)
M2A-VM with phenom 9500 and onboard graka was ~75W AC.
With the BE2400 ~55W AC.
All setup's used different hardware but it was always onboard gfx, one hd, one dvd drive and no extra fan's. All had power saving features enabled.
K8 has p-states i guess maybe the msr tweaking works there also.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mathos

I notice the HT can be set now, I'm wondering, does changing that also raise the NB/IMC multi to match?

---

Nope. You can change NB multi through WPCREDIT/BarEdit though.

Quote:

---

I think what I'm gonna do is bug MSI's customer support thing, and see if I can get em to put together a bios that allows for NB/IMC clock and voltage changes like the ones that had the p-states section. Since apparently thats how that ACI.101 bios came about.

---

That BIOS was the Chinese release only, across the rest of the world, they didn't release it until someone had already spread the link online. The P0J is better. I have asked them twice now for a better BIOS and the options personally. I will post back what they say, so far 3 days and no reply.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justapost

Sounds like a weird weekend start over there. Thank you for the guide, with luck the psu will arrrive today. Have you tried what's described in there at the last page.

---

It's Phenom and the PSU.

Phenom hasn't booted for a day now with 4 PSUs in 2 boards when I cleared CMOS. At the memory stage (C1 LCD) it just reboots.

PSU I'm going to try again now. Had no time since last post here.

Quote:

---

sidenote, sounds like the monitoring can be done on a different pc, as i hoped. :)

---

Yep. ;)

Quote:

---

Celeron system idles at 43W AC here atm. :)
M2A-VM with phenom 9500 and onboard graka was ~75W AC.
With the BE2400 ~55W AC.
All setup's used different hardware but it was always onboard gfx, one hd, one dvd drive and no extra fan's. All had power saving features enabled.
K8 has p-states i guess maybe the msr tweaking works there also.

---

This is with a power meter or with the GBT PSU?

I am going to cross-check power values. Phenoms are like the Penryn in one sense.
-You can't simulate or compare power between CPUs, as in simulate SKUs.
-Your one sample cannot be generalized for all the same SKU CPUs out there unless you can repeat it with another 2 retail samples with different VID/Volts for the same TDP/MHz. Overall, they are only pointers and valid for your sample. Inherently they have variables.
-Reviewers need to start publishing raw data in a separate link available as a download. This way we have too many inconsistencies and errors of theirs go unspotted and waste too long conjecturing wildly what could or could not be.
-Take Penryn for a good example. Penryn has a GHz limit at 3GHz for a good TDP/power/temps. You can see it's extremely tweaked at that, a very high bin, hence it's power/volts/MHz are best possible on that core/step. Nothing else will come close. If you tried to simulate lower or higher models, it will be completely inaccurate since it requires lower volts/power/TDP than any other model for the same frequency. Hence the overclockability. Jump one stage higher at 3.2GHz SKU and you see things turn shoot up with power/temps/volts. Showing the core MHz:TDP limit. Hence why no 65W TDP 4GHz Penryn retail as some delirious individuals hyped, ever. I had said they had a top bin of 3.4GHz internal since June '07, max and it had v.high TDP. But one sided individuals could never accept these facts until too late >
-The same thing exists for Phenom but at lower MHz. At 2.6G it reaches a very high TDP. The power draw/volts/temps for it will be much higher than what anyone can get with a lower model CPU esp. the 9600 BE that are tweaked for oc lower temps/power/volts. 9600 BE will be lower in these parameters than the 9500/9600/9700/9900. The core/step TDP:MHz limit seems to be near the 2.5GHz range. After this, things just shoot up with diminishing returns and poor yields. The FX range of CPUs, if released will improve on these parameters further if higher binned. But they might also require higher current for MFG stability and thus have higher temp/power than a comparable 9600 BE at equal settings and speeds.

Hence, my measurements are only going to apply to my testing and for comparisons, since by now, I know more about the core and its working and holes than the guys who spent 4 weeks or less reviewing them.

Operating 95W TDP CPU, no matter which CPU, will always have the same internal temps. The TDP is what decides the temps, nothing else. Thus 95W Phenoms should have temps the same as Q6600 G0. One easy way to test is let it go on until TCC is activated to throttle/shutdown. This you need to know, to have some calibration of your temp feedbacks and to map things out. Measuring TCASE is not like measuring TDIE as some claim, the metal case is there for a reason, it dissipates heat and has a thermal resistance which reduces the temp delta below and above. This is why internal core temps like the DTS are always higher than TCASE. Infact, at idle without CnQ, 2.3GHz with no HSF, both my 9600BEs measure 23C on IHS @ 21C ambient. Probe used was n-type industry and this was done at my work lab too. That's IHS temp is no way my internal core temp. :)

I'l go back to testing now, AX78 has very impressivve BIOS. :cool:

Here's the problem with the Gigabyte Odin =>

Shorted it, started it up and overrided the OVP and UVP. It's on but not connected to anything and I've linked the USB output to this computer through USB, so I get the idle voltages on all rails. Check this out:

Attachment 73719


You seen the +5V rail there? It's way out of spec. that is far beneath the lowest allowed without damaging the system. DMM reads same value as that software. So faulty PSU. :shakes:

:confused: :confused: i'm wondering, arn't I supposed to have 2000MHz HT? not 1800MHz...:confused: :confused:

http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/...DOverDrive.png

Nope, 1800MHz for all released Phenoms.

blah, i guess i read something somewhere wrong..... .blah... it's weird, i kinda want to get one of these performance bios's to work, so i CAN overlclock, not that i really want to... it annoys me that i don't have the ability to overclock much.

The higher models are 2GHz IMC and these were supposed to release 2G before bugs were found.

as in the 9700 and the 9900s? blah, i kinda wasted my moneys on my BE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

The higher models are 2GHz IMC and these were supposed to release 2G before bugs were found.

---

Actually they were supposed to work with an auto detecting adjustable IMC, like the original spec had. Was suppose to auto detect and adjust the IMC clock to within 200mhz of the core speed to avoid the uneven divider problems that the K8's had, which would allow you to run your ram at full speed regardless of processor clock. It was also suppose to be able to clock down, and go into Idle mode like the cores do, with C&Q 2.0. Thats what the whole separate power planes thing was supposed to be for, all that does right now is make it easier to OC.

And a side note, my system has proven to be gaming stable so far, on the auto detect voltage through the P0J bios, been messing about with Portal and Sims 2. Even played Half life 2 a bit, not gonna hit that too heavily though until the new 3870 comes in. At which point I'm gonna see if my system stays stable after putting the new card in, like it didn't do last time. Granted last time I could of just plane had a dud card.

how do i get it to 2g?
i have a question, i WAS using SB600 raid for my raid, but i was having... "lockups" whenever the system would read the cd-rom (take 30 sec to show my computer, wouldn't update to new disc when replaced) so i switched to promise. could that be part of my issue with BSOD on the P0J?

is there a way to just switch raid controllers without a reinstall? (like i guess, turn on raid on the SB600, boot, install driver, shutdown, switch sata cables..) would it then be a good idea to place cdrom and storage HDD, on the 2 promise sata ports?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dr_drache

how do i get it to 2g?
i have a question, i WAS using SB600 raid for my raid, but i was having... "lockups" whenever the system would read the cd-rom (take 30 sec to show my computer, wouldn't update to new disc when replaced) so i switched to promise. could that be part of my issue with BSOD on the P0J?

is there a way to just switch raid controllers without a reinstall? (like i guess, turn on raid on the SB600, boot, install driver, shutdown, switch sata cables..) would it then be a good idea to place cdrom and storage HDD, on the 2 promise sata ports?

---

It might be, can't remember if something like that was brought up on the MSI forums. If you're running a raid array, you'd need to switch to the promise controller, rebuild a new array, and reformat. I've been considering getting an SATA DVD RW drive, but am worried about it working properly with the SB600 on AHCI mode. But thats part of the problem I see with everyting being migrated over to SATA. Granted the average Joe isn't likely to worry about raid, an enthusiast will.

You can't OC the NB/IMC with bios P0J. You'd have to use bios 1.1b3 or something similar. But 1.1b3 seems to be the best for that. But, not the most stable, why I kinda wish we could get a cross between 1.1b3 and p0j.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mathos

It might be, can't remember if something like that was brought up on the MSI forums. If you're running a raid array, you'd need to switch to the promise controller, rebuild a new array, and reformat. I've been considering getting an SATA DVD RW drive, but am worried about it working properly with the SB600 on AHCI mode. But thats part of the problem I see with everyting being migrated over to SATA. Granted the average Joe isn't likely to worry about raid, an enthusiast will.

You can't OC the NB/IMC with bios P0J. You'd have to use bios 1.1b3 or something similar. But 1.1b3 seems to be the best for that. But, not the most stable, why I kinda wish we could get a cross between 1.1b3 and p0j.

---

that's my issue, my dvdrw is a sata drive. current config is, raid 0 array on promise, 500gb and sata dvdrw on sb600, ide mode. never thought of going AHCI (call me passivly stupid) currently on bios 13b3. but with P0H, i get nvidia BSOD, P0J i get storage controller BSOD (goes too fast, but it's right in that area), and i get a x00000101 BSOD or a lockup every time i OC over 12x and/or 208 HTT. this is with bios .(insert bios version here) yes, it's the secondary processor error, and others. (x64 vista, FTL)

C1 errors, hmm. That's what my defect not jet rmaed 9500 also does.
Have you moved the setup (cpu+hd) from 790FX to 770 chipset without windows reinstall? If so have you had issues with monitoring apps?

Beside it's bad that the psu is defect the software seems to be usefull.

My power consumption examples where all measured with the power meter, the psu did not arrive yesterday.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dr_drache

as in the 9700 and the 9900s? blah, i kinda wasted my moneys on my BE.

---

No, BE is better for oc, uc and power/temps. You can easily get 2G on NB, stock volts it should be. Mine does 2214MHz stock 1.250VID fully stable.

All Phenoms were 2G IMC, they were downclocked for better stability after TLB errata was discoovered. That's whay the ones reviewers had were 2G NB.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mathos

Actually they were supposed to work with an auto detecting adjustable IMC, like the original spec had. Was suppose to auto detect and adjust the IMC clock to within 200mhz of the core speed to avoid the uneven divider problems that the K8's had, which would allow you to run your ram at full speed regardless of processor clock. It was also suppose to be able to clock down, and go into Idle mode like the cores do, with C&Q 2.0. Thats what the whole separate power planes thing was supposed to be for, all that does right now is make it easier to OC.

---

That was moved over to 45nm around early May period, they had too many problems with their original aims because of shortage of time. These are just a few things they skimped on at 65nm because of IMC bugs since January which led to all their launch delays. Others included a larger L3, 4 ccHT links and so on.

Quote:

---

how do i get it to 2g?

---

Use BIOS 1.13B or use WPCREDIT/Bar_Edit to oc NB.

Quote:

---

i have a question, i WAS using SB600 raid for my raid, but i was having... "lockups" whenever the system would read the cd-rom (take 30 sec to show my computer, wouldn't update to new disc when replaced) so i switched to promise. could that be part of my issue with BSOD on the P0J?

is there a way to just switch raid controllers without a reinstall? (like i guess, turn on raid on the SB600, boot, install driver, shutdown, switch sata cables..) would it then be a good idea to place cdrom and storage HDD, on the 2 promise sata ports?

---

AHCI mode has problems working with SATA drives on the SB600 ports. Otherwise they should work fine.

But AHCI mode gives me same perf. as IDE mode with SATA II NCQ drives, so I use IDE mode.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mathos

But 1.1b3 seems to be the best for that. But, not the most stable, why I kinda wish we could get a cross between 1.1b3 and p0j.

---

Yeah, same here. Wanted P0J stability, support and compatility but with 1.13B BIOS OC options and performance. P0J is much slower than 1.13B.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dr_drache

that's my issue, my dvdrw is a sata drive. current config is, raid 0 array on promise, 500gb and sata dvdrw on sb600, ide mode. never thought of going AHCI (call me passivly stupid) currently on bios 13b3. but with P0H, i get nvidia BSOD, P0J i get storage controller BSOD (goes too fast, but it's right in that area), and i get a x00000101 BSOD or a lockup every time i OC over 12x and/or 208 HTT. this is with bios .(insert bios version here) yes, it's the secondary processor error, and others. (x64 vista, FTL)

---

Vista x64 FTW! :p:

IDK and will never know about Vista 64b esp. with SP1, because it is so problematic.

Can you ceck if you have any BSoD dumps and attach them back? I can check to see what the error is rather than guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justapost

C1 errors, hmm. That's what my defect not jet rmaed 9500 also does.

---

That's same as both of my 96BEs. That's the CPU IMC, I'm 100% on it. It faulters with initializing MEM, even 1GB 800 1.8V single channel. C1 code is when memory is being initiated. I can also tell because we have Tracer RAM which signals LEDs to show what is happening. If RAM loads up it'll keep blinking and then show a smooth pattern of flashes all across. If not, it'll either get stuck at a stage, either not turn on or switch off the LEDs. I like this RAM, it is very useful for memory troubleshooting. :yepp:

Watch this. I've tried Phenom now and it won't boot in the AX78, same error. I don't have any phase or cool chemicals here to throw on it under a pot, the closest thing here is a refrigerator. So I'll have to work some insulation and leave it in there. I bet when mine goes subzero, it'll boot... I think ;)

Quote:

---

Have you moved the setup (cpu+hd) from 790FX to 770 chipset without windows reinstall? If so have you had issues with monitoring apps?

---

I tried both a new and an old install. Fact is, the new one didn't start when installing and the old one did and showed nothing wrong. Same drivers.

Quote:

---

Beside it's bad that the psu is defect the software seems to be usefull.

---

Achim, it is definitely very useful. Saves a heck of a time! One little dilemma appears, as in why when you change the voltage rail output, i.e. from 5.00V to 5.15V, the actual rail voltage does not move. :shrug:

Quote:

---

My power consumption examples where all measured with the power meter, the psu did not arrive yesterday.

---

Ah ok. Returned mine today. It's worse for me since I pick it up from uncles place which means someone at their branch has to contact Gigabyte directly or distributor if they got it through that and return it.. then wait for a new one, whereas then I have to go and get it. :(

KTE I meant to ask is the 8.3's worth while are for updating the chipset drivers?

No idea. You'd have to test it and find out. ;)

I can't because my Phenom doesn't boot. It is supposed to be a major release fixing much though.

hummmmmmm

Guess I might give it a shot if I'm off next weekend...

http://www.mediafire.com/?jp4djdusnkw

here are the 3 dumps i could find.
i don't have a debugger, so i couldn't look at them quite yet.

Yeah I think when I upgrade my Ram I'm gonna go with some Crucial Ballistix, either this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148183
This:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820144120
or maybe 4 of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148092

I'm waiting to install 8.3 until the new 3870 arrives, don't see much point in using them with the 2600xt right now.

AHCI will have close to the same performance as IDE mode, but it will have less cpu usage. Hopefully with B3 they'll at least manage to ramp up the IMC to close to core clock. Otherwise it looks like Shanghai/Deneb will have to be the savior for k10.

I'd got up to 2.4ghz NB/IMC completely stable at stock VID. Only issue I had was the Vid card thing. Works just fine with the 2600xt in. Was running 2.0ghz at 1.1v VID stable. But I do like the OC stability with P0J, 2.6ghz core with auto voltage, and it's showing the cpu VID as 1.250, before to do the same speed I was having to use 1.2625 VID. Which means I'm running .008v lower than before, on the actual voltage. And thats just the voltage the bios auto detected for it. Note I've also got C&Q turned on at the moment as well, another thing, the temp calibration seems to be a lot better now. At idle with my Nirvana at 2.6ghz I'm having just around ambient, and with full load under everest stress test it tops out at 53c after 5 mins, thats with full stress test except for HDD. I may be able to get that lower if I reseat the HSF again, didn't do as good of a job this time as I did the first time with the paste. Granted I don't know if thats 1316beta of Everest detecting more accurately or if it's improved with the bios.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

That's same as both of my 96BEs. That's the CPU IMC, I'm 100% on it. It faulters with initializing MEM, even 1GB 800 1.8V single channel. C1 code is when memory is being initiated. I can also tell because we have Tracer RAM which signals LEDs to show what is happening. If RAM loads up it'll keep blinking and then show a smooth pattern of flashes all across. If not, it'll either get stuck at a stage, either not turn on or switch off the LEDs. I like this RAM, it is very useful for memory troubleshooting. :yepp:

---

First i thought damn i paid ~20€ for a bunch of led's but yepp they are usefull. With my 9500 stucking at C1 the LED's where off, so i assumend a defect IMC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

Watch this. I've tried Phenom now and it won't boot in the AX78, same error. I don't have any phase or cool chemicals here to throw on it under a pot, the closest thing here is a refrigerator. So I'll have to work some insulation and leave it in there. I bet when mine goes subzero, it'll boot... I think ;)

---

Hmm, had mine in the refrigerator for a while, tried to mount the cpu as fast as possible but still no luck booting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

I tried both a new and an old install. Fact is, the new one didn't start when installing and the old one did and showed nothing wrong. Same drivers.

---

I still suspect hw io caused my cpu to fail. Moved cpu and hd from the m3a to the sapphire mobo and had a few glitches with everest (always caused my system to freeze), whom where gone after a fresh reinstall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

Achim, it is definitely very useful. Saves a heck of a time! One little dilemma appears, as in why when you change the voltage rail output, i.e. from 5.00V to 5.15V, the actual rail voltage does not move. :shrug:

---

Sounds like a sowftware problem, hope they fix it soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

Ah ok. Returned mine today. It's worse for me since I pick it up from uncles place which means someone at their branch has to contact Gigabyte directly or distributor if they got it through that and return it.. then wait for a new one, whereas then I have to go and get it. :(

---

Mine is on the way,i expect it tomorrow.

dr_drache: sorry, there may have to be some waiting since I don't have any tools on the system I'm using now (around 25 miles away from last post destination).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mathos

AHCI will have close to the same performance as IDE mode, but it will have less cpu usage.

---

You're right, it should. But it didn't with mine. They both averaged the same. IDE also performed quicker on the Phenom system than AHCI on SB600, posted details of my test a 2-3 months back. It also performed quicker than IDE mode on my P35 ICH9R system.

Quote:

---

I'd got up to 2.4ghz NB/IMC completely stable at stock VID.

---

What was your mem bandwidth and latencies?

Quote:

---

Note I've also got C&Q turned on at the moment as well, another thing, the temp calibration seems to be a lot better now. At idle with my Nirvana at 2.6ghz I'm having just around ambient, and with full load under everest stress test it tops out at 53c after 5 mins, thats with full stress test except for HDD.

---

Move over to 1319 build, 1316 was only a special debug build for someone with ATA problems. 1319 does have Phenom improvements but not over 1314 AFAIK.

As for temps, as I've mentioned before, those aren't your temps. but Tcontrol value, which is a similar value to your temps only at around 50C, lower than your core temp below this value and higher than your core temp above this. hence it is perfectly normal for it to read negative values at low ambients and plus 90C at near maximum temperatures. ;)

Achim: await the results. Make sure you have a spare power cable for the PSU, they don't ship a power cable for it. :yepp:

BTW, anyone checked out this system mod by Bill and the team for AMD to use at tradeshows? http://www.planetamd64.com/index.php?showtopic=34129

Just two pics (plenty more there):
Attachment 73868
Attachment 73869

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Specs

Phenom 2.6 9900
2x 3870 X2
CoolerMaster Copper Sphere CPU cooler
WD 400GB HDD
2GB OCZ PC2-8000 memory
GB[T] 790FX board
750W PCPC power supply

Iz3D 22" widescreen monitor
Thermaltake 7" 5.25 Bay LCD
Razer Lachesis Mouse
Razer Lycosa Keyboard
4 Black SATA II cables (right angled/straight)
Pioneer BD Reader + DVD +/-R/RW SATA
MS Windows Vista Ultimate

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Key notes by Bill

The system will make it's debut at the World Cyber Games (modding division) in Cologne, Germany and be featured at Computex in Taiwan.
...
Vista is what AMD wanted.. Remember, AMD will use this PC for displays at Tradeshows around the world. MS probally wouldn't like to see AMD using an older OS!
...
We missed the deadline for Cebit, but AMD is still excited about using it Computex. I'd love to see the reaction from Thermaltake at that show. Since it missed CeBIT, AMD gave us permission to play with the system in the meantime. I'd like to get guru in video conference and overclock this 9900!

---

Check my AMD test system wallpaper out :p:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1...emwphy5.th.png

@KTE, no rush, no rush at all,
would going form 1800, to 2g make much of a differnce?
i know, a simple 10% OC wouldn't make a great differnce, but it always helps,
just wondering if HT speeds would make same type of differnce or be more noticable.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...s/be353db9.jpg

Just default timings on that cas5 G.Skill memory I'm using.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...00x2400mem.png

Bandwidth in sandra was around.... 10580mb/s or something like that. One thing I noticed though, my memory bandwidth at 2700 x 2000 was higher except for the L3 cache, than at 2600 by 2400. Makes me think the performance jumps after 2.6ghz, would love to see 2.7 by 2.4 or 2.6, just to see if performance goes up or down.

At 2.7 by 2.0, L1 was at ~86000mb/s 43000 and 43000, L2 was at ~21000, 15000, and 20000 respectively. Though the regular memory and L3 numbers were lower. So thats almost a 4gb/s jump in L1 performance, and close to a 1bg/s jump on L2 for a whole 100mhz cpu speed difference.

Kinda OT: Guys, do you think MSI plans to make a new board with 790FX + SB700? Maybe a K9A2 Diamond:D

hoping they will :clap: :up:

Mathos: yeah, your read data is very slow for MEM and IMC. Everything else is good. I've never ran them latencies so I'm not sure why.

As I tested quite long ago, after Macci showed the main bits, we found memory/IMC performance jumps with core speed (as well as cache performances obviously).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dr_drache

would going form 1800, to 2g make much of a differnce?

---

Depends in what exactly you want the difference to be seen in. Overall, yes, there is a slight difference, but this depends on the coding of the app. you're interested in seeing the difference.

HT speeds doesn't make too mucha difference unless you have powerful cards, whereas it does but so does PCIe speed. 110-115MHz should be easy on this chipset.

Morais: I have no idea yet.

You guys deserve an update. My trusty Phenom is dead: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...0&postcount=64

Beware of IMC/MEM volts! I did not see any problems until I started running a larger delta between IMC and MEM volts. :mad:

i.e. 2.196V MEM and sub 1.25V IMC (> +/- 0.954V).

Worst of all, my gorgeous 770 and 780G princesses are both lying their cherry virgin, dressed in multi-colored copper, latches wide open, naked to the bare flesh, without a sign of penetration by the [p]rick Phenom. He, the royal stud, is not complying.
All my P4/K8/K10h/C2D/C2Q comparitive tests, roughly 41 individual tests which were 70-98% complete are now meaningless once again. :( :down:

I will not test another Phenom, the replacement will most likely be sold there and then [1]. The hassle of 3 dead Phenoms already isn't worth it and having to start learning the intricacies and oddness of yet another one is a time consuming pain... I can bear but have no time for. I have already spent more time on this than I had available, and I have a life to live now. You guys will have to carry on Phenom+MSI RD790 yourselves, sorry.

[1] Now let's hope I stick by that statement. :D

The one I will test in Abit 770 and a 780G, and keep for personal use replacing my BE, is:

Athlon X2 4850e ADH4850IAA5DO 2.5GHz 65nm G2 45W TDP, CnQ @ 1.0GHz 1.1V 18.1W TDP - > $89

The other two low TDP 65nm G2 dual cores to release will be:
Athlon X2 4450e 2.3GHz ADH4450IAA5DO (replacing BE-2350)
Athlon X2 4050e 2.1GHz ADH4050IAA5DO (replacing BE-2300)
[Athlon X2 BE-2400 (2.3 GHz) - > $78 (now $104), Athlon X2 BE-2350 (2.1 GHz) - > $68 (now $91)]

More upcoming releases late March and early Q2 (April):

Athlon 64 X2 5400+ 2.8GHz 65nm Brisbane G2 - 65W
Athlon 64 X2 5600+ 2.9GHz 65nm Brisbane G2 - 65W and 89 W
Athlon 64 X2 5800+ 3.0GHz 65nm Brisbane G2 - 89W

Attachment 73975

Thats too bad, I'm hoping you wont stick by your statement :D

sorry to hear that KTE...


anyways how can you measure TDP?are there any software that i could possibly use?

P=v.i

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morais

P=v.i

---

how is that? :confused:

are there any software that i could use?

I dont think so... I think the best way measuring is with a multimeter, then do the maths...

TDP using above formula if you know the exact current your CPU is pulling (encoded within MSR) or you just trust the manufacturer.

TDP is thermal heat dissipated rather than power draw. Power draw you can very easily measure within a good approximation using a few electrical tools.

The Phenom 9600 and below need 76A. So look at mine, 1.232V @ 76A giving 93.6W TDP.

Top rated bin: 1.25V x 76A = 95W TDP

But the B2 Phenom 9900 required 110A for the clocks. That's where the big difference in their TDP, power draw and temps. comes from which users have conjectured over many times.

That's why if you run your < 9600 BE at 2.6GHz stable, it won't reach the same power/temps as the 9900.

As for Phenom being hot, not so. I just checked another myth...

Stock cooler is not capable of dissipating heat which it draws away from the IHS, so heat becomes trap within the heatsink and aggregates causing a heatbed to form and so the core heats up more and more.

I tested Phenom 9600 BE at stock without any cooler or fan, 24C ambient.
I have already established mine switches off at 72C BIOS repeatedly.
I then had it loaded at POST (one core 100%).
Kept thermocouple at the top and sides.
After 25 seconds, thermocouple read 55C IHS and 59C at the side nearest die (hottest bit).
I then shut it off and to test if the temperature is more or lower than that read. I quickly took it out into my hand when thermocouple read 53C surface.
Measured at underside pins and it read 48C.

Yep, it was definitely around 50C, since it was very warm and low-hot to the hand holding it but not burning. I held it minimum 14 seconds and it had dropped to 50C IHS. If you are a medic, medically educated or an electrical engineering individual then you would know that by touching 63C metal for 1 second, you would be burned, 58C for 4 seconds and 55C for 10 seconds. 48C will not burn your skin until 10 minutes holding it.
[i.e. Ref. BS 4086:1966 Recommendations for - Maximum surface temperatures of heated domestic equipment, PD 6504:1983 [BSI published document] Medical information on human reaction to skin contact with hot surfaces, BS EN 563: 1994 Safety of machinery - Temperatures of touchable surfaces - Ergonomics data to establish temperature limit values for hot surfaces]

This is obviously inline, showing that the temperature even without a heatsink and fan took 25 seconds to rise to 60C, one core full load. That would show that it won't be 40C idle at stock with a heatsink and fan unless one of the components is underpowered for 95W TDP, or can just about remove 95W TDP and keep the CPU below HTC activation.

I tried the same but with a Q6600 at 3.6G 1.344V just to recheck. It jumped to 75C IHS under 11 seconds and it shut off (THERMTRIP#) before I could switch it off manually, under 16 seconds (105C). It was completely untouchable at 63C IHS reading, would burn me straight away. That was just to recheck the readings were OK.

Sorry to hear that KTE. :shrug: Too bad. Any peticular reason that cause it to die? Too much heat built up or just too high core voltage? Maybe you should use a better HSF(water cooled) to avoid overheating. So far, you are the only one that I know of has such a bad luck though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

You guys deserve an update. My trusty Phenom is dead: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...0&postcount=64

---

Hi guys, I need help, I do not intend to o/c my system, thus i just want to know what settings to set for a pc8500 (1033mhz) kingston hyperX ram. This is because Kingston's website only state 5-5-5-15, but the manual settings at the bios has other options for me to set.

I think that's the cause of the problem in which the board detect the 2 ram as single channel, and not dual channel, even though I installed it correct according to the manual.

Thanks for the help in advance.

My rig config is :
Phenom 9500
MSI K9A2 platinum
PowerColor HD3870 OC
Coolermaster Realpower Pro 750W

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

TDP using above formula if you know the exact current your CPU is pulling (encoded within MSR) or you just trust the manufacturer.

TDP is thermal heat dissipated rather than power draw. Power draw you can very easily measure within a good approximation using a few electrical tools.

The Phenom 9600 and below need 76A. So look at mine, 1.232V @ 76A giving 93.6W TDP.

Top rated bin: 1.25V x 76A = 95W TDP

As for Phenom being hot, not so. I just checked another myth...

Stock cooler is not capable of dissipating heat which it draws away from the IHS, so heat becomes trap within the heatsink and aggregates causing a heatbed to form and so the core heats up more and more.

I tested Phenom 9600 BE at stock without any cooler or fan, 24C ambient.
I have already established mine switches off at 72C BIOS repeatedly.
I then had it loaded at POST (one core 100%).
Kept thermocouple at the top and sides.
After 25 seconds, thermocouple read 55C IHS and 59C at the side nearest die (hottest bit).
I then shut it off and to test if the temperature is more or lower than that read. I quickly took it out into my hand when thermocouple read 53C surface.
Measured at underside pins and it read 48C.

---

Hmmm, that means with my Phenom running at 1.240v according to everest and everything else that can pick up voltage, that I'm running at 94.24W while I run at 2.6 by 2.4? Going by that since the 2.4nb/IMC is at stock volts. Hehe, kinda liked my stable or no post luck with my Nb/imc on this one.

Yeah I kinda figured that with the stock cooler, thats why I didn't bother with it, and just put it on the old x2 4200+ 65w Windsor. Though it could explain why I've been able to OC at much lower voltages than a lot of people, probably due in part to using the ZT Nirvana for the cpu cooler.

sam2008: my last 3 Phenoms had same problem. It's caused by a bad IMC, suddenly it bunks out and won't boot and load the memory. Achim's 9500 has the same problem after a while, he even had the same RAM as mine with similar volts/timings, so did a few others here. The problem as I suspect very much from testing since November, is caused by keeping a large delta in between RAM and IMC volts mainly.

No pushing or overheating, volts were low. I only kept low volts for over a month now, sub 1.3V CPU sub 2.2V MEM and sub 1.1V IMC. It was stock volts for a day. It would never happen if I did not clear CMOS, I know this from testing. With me, it happens only when you clear CMOS, each time, repeatedly and I always dreaded doing so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadowlite

Hi guys, I need help, I do not intend to o/c my system, thus i just want to know what settings to set for a pc8500 (1033mhz) kingston hyperX ram. This is because Kingston's website only state 5-5-5-15, but the manual settings at the bios has other options for me to set.

I think that's the cause of the problem in which the board detect the 2 ram as single channel, and not dual channel, even though I installed it correct according to the manual.

---

Welcome :)

What exact RAM do you have, can you check in CPU-Z and post a screenshot of the SPD tab back?
Are they 512MB, 1GB, 2GB or 4GB modules?

First set both modules in the slots next to each other (green+orange). That will be dual channel (manual is wrong).

If it's 1GB or less modules then set the RAM tRFC to 105ns.

Which BIOS are you using? Don't try 1066 RAM with any BIOS before P0E.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mathos

Hmmm, that means with my Phenom running at 1.240v according to everest and everything else that can pick up voltage, that I'm running at 94.24W while I run at 2.6 by 2.4?

---

When you oc speed/volts, speed affects TDP but voltage affects it by the square. So if using a constant current, you would have to use the formula I posted before to work out your new TDP: Pn = Pt.(vn/vt).(Un²/Ut²)

dr_drache: I checked your logs through. You have the famous bugcheck:

Code:

---

Bug Check 0x101: CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT

The CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT bug check has a value of 0x00000101. This indicates that an expected clock interrupt on a secondary processor, in a multi-processor system, was not received within the allocated interval.

---

It means your processor has become unresponsive i.e. locked. It's caused either by instability (lack of voltage/heat buildup/bad PSU rails/volts), software incompatibility or software-driver-OS problem. It could be anything but it is looking most like a Vista x64 issue since it references the 64b kernel and kernel modules in the stack just before the problem.
I'm going to get some more symbols and debug it a little more later on. Need to update some files.

KTE: Why clearing the CMOS has something to do with it? Is it because this peticular MSI motherboard? Maybe switch to another motherboard won't cause the death of your phenom.

Come on KTE, we need you to continue staying with us:D . Don't give up on Phenom. If phenom is that easy to OC like Q6600, it is not fun at all isn't it?:p:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

sam2008: my last 3 Phenoms had same problem. It's caused by a bad IMC, suddenly it bunks out and won't boot and load the memory. Achim's 9500 has the same problem after a while, he even had the same RAM as mine with similar volts/timings, so did a few others here. The problem as I suspect very much from testing since November, is caused by keeping a large delta in between RAM and IMC volts mainly.

No pushing or overheating, volts were low. I only kept low volts for over a month now, sub 1.3V CPU sub 2.2V MEM and sub 1.1V IMC. It was stock volts for a day. It would never happen if I did not clear CMOS, I know this from testing. With me, it happens only when you clear CMOS, each time, repeatedly and I always dreaded doing so.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

Welcome :)

What exact RAM do you have, can you check in CPU-Z and post a screenshot of the SPD tab back?
Are they 512MB, 1GB, 2GB or 4GB modules?

First set both modules in the slots next to each other (green+orange). That will be dual channel (manual is wrong).

If it's 1GB or less modules then set the RAM tRFC to 105ns.

Which BIOS are you using? Don't try 1066 RAM with any BIOS before P0E.

When you oc speed/volts, speed affects TDP but voltage affects it by the square. So if using a constant current, you would have to use the formula I posted before to work out your new TDP: Pn = Pt.(vn/vt).(Un²/Ut²)

dr_drache: I checked your logs through. You have the famous bugcheck:

Code:

---

Bug Check 0x101: CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT

The CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT bug check has a value of 0x00000101. This indicates that an expected clock interrupt on a secondary processor, in a multi-processor system, was not received within the allocated interval.

---

It means your processor has become unresponsive i.e. locked. It's caused either by instability (lack of voltage/heat buildup/bad PSU rails/volts), software incompatibility or software-driver-OS problem. It could be anything but it is looking most like a Vista x64 issue since it references the 64b kernel and kernel modules in the stack just before the problem.
I'm going to get some more symbols and debug it a little more later on. Need to update some files.

---

That bug right there sounds a lot like Errata 254, possibly 298, which may explain why MS applied a software TLB fix in Vista SP1. So if the voltage delta between memory and IMC also causes an issue, then perhaps 1.8v memory was the way to go?

In other news though, I got my new Toxic Edition 3870 installed now, with 8.3 drivers. Not have any of the issues I had with the other card, even while having the CPU OCed.

Hmmm finding the actual values for current, could be difficult since it can't be measured properly without making the Multimeter a part of the circuit. But it does make sense that the actual current in the die usage could be 67amps. After all the hard input to the cpu out of the PSU is 12v, and draws about 6.7 amps off the 12v rails. Considering a CPU staging area is a massive parallel circuit, which if set up right divides voltage, and after the voltage is divided, you could put a current amplifier circuit off of each branch. When I was doing electronic classes in such in college it wasn't difficult to set up an amp circuit that could take 200mA in and output 2Amps, granted in those circumstances the voltage wasn't lowered so soon after the resistors and transistors would start to let the magic operating smoke out.

@KTE

thanks, if there is some "expermental" way to fix this crap :P, let me know, i'll spend what time i have to test stuff if you think of a way to attempt to "fix"

im any case it looks like i'm about to buy some ram, don't feel right running one stick with 1/2 heatspreader (and only one heatpipe)
soo, the 1.33 bios is good for 1066?

thanks KTE,

I am using 2* 1GB Modules HyperX PC8500 from kingston. I installed the ram into the first 2 slots, orange and green nearest to the cpu :P ( knew the color coding was wrong from a review ). I am using the official 1.3 bios. under CPU-Z, my timings are:
Memory Type DDR2
Memory Size 2048 MBytes
Memory Frequency 533.4 MHz (3:8)
CAS# Latency (tCL) 5.0 clocks
RAS# to CAS# (tRCD) 5 clocks
RAS# Precharge (tRP) 5 clocks
Cycle Time (tRAS) 15 clocks
Bank Cycle Time (tRC) 14 clocks
Command Rate (CR) 2T

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

I will not test another Phenom, the replacement will most likely be sold there and then [1]. The hassle of 3 dead Phenoms already isn't worth it and having to start learning the intricacies and oddness of yet another one is a time consuming pain... I can bear but have no time for. I have already spent more time on this than I had available, and I have a life to live now. You guys will have to carry on Phenom+MSI RD790 yourselves, sorry.

---

C'mon KTE... 9850 BE's are only a couple weeks away.... Is she a go'er know what I mean, nudge, nudge, ;) ;) .... Uuaaa.... :D

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=180276

Just what I need, another Phenom, but I'll probably get one it the price is reasonable... :rolleyes:

KTE, AMD started to use a new nomenclature for dissipating power in phenom CPU's...its called ACP(Average CPU Power).Real TDP should be around 120W.

News from MSI BIOS Engineers yesterday... they're working h-a-r-d to add NB Multi options right now. :D
I'll have a BIOS soon they say, but I've returned my Phenom already.

See how things can change Jon ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sam2008

KTE: Why clearing the CMOS has something to do with it? Is it because this peticular MSI motherboard? Maybe switch to another motherboard won't cause the death of your phenom.

---

Tried 3 different boards, same problem. The problem is Phenom IMC failing to initialize (as in signs of being dead).

Quote:

---

Come on KTE, we need you to continue staying with us:D . Don't give up on Phenom. If phenom is that easy to OC like Q6600, it is not fun at all isn't it?:p:

---

Kinda true. I don't enjoy working with K8/P4/C2/Penryn, it bores me. There's nothing to do. But I did enjoy playing with Phenom, monstrous options and tweakability there, day by day it only got better and better for a true enthusiast not after records, and searching to tweak, learn and discover. If only onliners would use all the available tools, most of them are only skimming on it's oc options. :(

On another note, I also hate it's instability, randomness and sudden deaths, I have to say. I had just started finding the sweet spots for this CPU and its running as I wanted and suddenly, it just blanks out.

Also Phenom does better in Vista than an Intel part does from moving, the deficit for Intel moving from XP>Vista is larger than for AMD/ATi due to driver support and optimizations mainly, especially in video'ing.

And yet again, multi-benchmarking, as in, how you multi-task at home running a few things at the same time and not just one application on it's own with Explorer.exe closed (:p:) is supposed to be where the IMC and Phenom shines more than single application benchmarks (check PCMark Vantage scores). I have benchmarked this but not seen most others do it or mention it (run a few different tasks at the same time, i.e virus scan, game, video decode, compression, integer calculation and some encryption and test).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mathos

That bug right there sounds a lot like Errata 254, possibly 298, which may explain why MS applied a software TLB fix in Vista SP1. So if the voltage delta between memory and IMC also causes an issue, then perhaps 1.8v memory was the way to go?

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BSoD does sound similar to the errata. It won't be though, since he only get's it on multi oc, which is typical instability. Let him switch to XP or Linux and replicate it. ;)

1.8V RAM? I'm not sure. Achim is currently testing settings I want to run and he has the same RAM as mine. We'll see how long his lasts, if it makes it past 3 months without death/degradation, then it can't be a problem on all Phenoms. If not, then it sure is and we would need to advise that very clearly. ATM I am very reluctant to tell anyone to run NB below 1.2V if RAM is plus 2.1V. Maybe this is the exact reason CnQ did not change NB volts/speeds, even though that actually does affect power consumption/temps very much?

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In other news though, I got my new Toxic Edition 3870 installed now, with 8.3 drivers. Not have any of the issues I had with the other card, even while having the CPU OCed.

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Nice. So have you tried oc'ing it yet using CCC or ATi Tool?

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Hmmm finding the actual values for current, could be difficult since it can't be measured properly without making the Multimeter a part of the circuit.

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Yeah, that was the initial problem I had. A Clamp Ammeter is OK, but still not as accurate as we want. AMD uses the Extech 380801-NIST Power Analyzer (you must have seen it in video demo's too, they recommend that), and that's deemed accurate for measuring this and logging this as the system plugs directly into it and various loads can be configured. Costs roughly $700 though and I haven't found it around here. The current chosen at boot on a Phenom is written in an MSR value, so you can find it and decode it using AMD BKDG. It differs. Mine was found to be 76A stock.

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But it does make sense that the actual current in the die usage could be 67amps. After all the hard input to the cpu out of the PSU is 12v, and draws about 6.7 amps off the 12v rails. Considering a CPU staging area is a massive parallel circuit, which if set up right divides voltage, and after the voltage is divided, you could put a current amplifier circuit off of each branch. When I was doing electronic classes in such in college it wasn't difficult to set up an amp circuit that could take 200mA in and output 2Amps, granted in those circumstances the voltage wasn't lowered so soon after the resistors and transistors would start to let the magic operating smoke out.

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That's the problem. IMC is a big power/heat hog, watch Nehalem at 32nm and compare it to 32nm AMD. Then we'll be talking apple to apple comparison. HT/MEM is controlled all within the CPU of K10h. Intel has this in it's Northbridge, and usually a 35-50W NB that is. Add that in and you'll have the power consumption of both CPU's working. But you would not need to use a modified ammeter to measure such a load, as a CPU does not pull all it's load from the 4/8-pin +12V but also through the MB +12V rails. Many of the SMPS out there run +12V rail off the same rail as is used for the MB 24-pin connector, so you can't really track individual component power down. You would need to account for that. Best would be, if you could verify all power, real idle/load I.V for all the various components with and without the CPU. Then you'd have a much more accurate power measurement.

Than you have CPU Pd and Ps, static and dynamic load (differ).
Further you have multi-tasking loads (again, differ).

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Originally Posted by dr_drache

@KTE

thanks, if there is some "expermental" way to fix this crap :P, let me know, i'll spend what time i have to test stuff if you think of a way to attempt to "fix"

im any case it looks like i'm about to buy some ram, don't feel right running one stick with 1/2 heatspreader (and only one heatpipe)
soo, the 1.33 bios is good for 1066?

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Try P0J BIOS please and see if those options are fixed. At first, only leave one RAM module in.

When you flash BETA BIOSes, ascertain a minimum damage and maximum probability approach, which is to keep minimum components attached, i.e. 1xHD, 1xRAM, etc After first boot, Load Optimized settings, reboot, in BIOS, you can then attach all components back and startup with the correct settings you want.

I will try to check your issue out dr_drache, but I need a Phenom to do it first.

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Originally Posted by Shadowlite

thanks KTE,

I am using 2* 1GB Modules HyperX PC8500 from kingston. I installed the ram into the first 2 slots, orange and green nearest to the cpu :P ( knew the color coding was wrong from a review ). I am using the official 1.3 bios. under CPU-Z, my timings are:
Memory Type DDR2
Memory Size 2048 MBytes
Memory Frequency 533.4 MHz (3:8)
CAS# Latency (tCL) 5.0 clocks
RAS# to CAS# (tRCD) 5 clocks
RAS# Precharge (tRP) 5 clocks
Cycle Time (tRAS) 15 clocks
Bank Cycle Time (tRC) 14 clocks
Command Rate (CR) 2T

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Your RAM is rated for

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Clock Cycle Time (tCK) CL=5 2.5ns (min.) / 8ns (max.)
Row Cycle Time (tRC) 51.5ns (min.)
Refresh to Active/Refresh Command Time (tRFC) 105ns
Row Active Time (tRAS) 39ns (min.) / 70,000ns (max.)
Power 2.025 W (operating per module)
Operating Temperature 0o C to 55o C

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Keep tRFC as it mentions for DIMM0 and DIMM1 and set the volts as 2.2V (users: check the specified power draw of each module for reference)

Load test it with Memtest (latest). Does it pass at least 4 hours?

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Originally Posted by Daveburt714

C'mon KTE... 9850 BE's are only a couple weeks away.... Is she a go'er know what I mean, nudge, nudge, ;) ;) .... Uuaaa.... :D

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=180276

Just what I need, another Phenom, but I'll probably get one it the price is reasonable... :rolleyes:

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It would surpise you how little computing interest I really have if you met me or were around me for a day or two. ;)

That isn't to be released till ~10th April for us and it's at 125W TDP B3 for 2.5GHz (customer deliveries). Only OEM and shipments to retailers are now in March.

9150e 1.8G 65W
9550 2.2G
9650 2.3G
9750 2.4G 95W and 125W
9850 2.5G 125W

Two higher bins follow, one is 9950 in Q3 and one more is Deneb 95W in mid-September.
Two bins of FX also follow, one TBA this 2nd half and launched with 9950.
B3 Barcelona's will be upto 75W for sub 2.3G
B3 Barcelona 2.5G will be 105W rated

I might be able to get the B3... I'll check by the uncles tomorrow. If I can, then I might as well test it and if not for free (meaning I have to buy it like a normal user), then I won't be. :p:

Also maybe there is still some confusion with enthusiasts about the TLB bug.. I'll make it clear. The Barcelona B2 server parts were withdrawn because the TLB Errata gave many problems in the server world at the very high multi-core loads. It was affecting many initial release systems. But there were no problems in the desktop world so these were carried on.

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Originally Posted by Morais

KTE, AMD started to use a new nomenclature for dissipating power in phenom CPU's...its called ACP(Average CPU Power).Real TDP should be around 120W.

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Yep, I'm aware. But that was mainly server world, i.e.

Attachment 74074

Using the above power meter I listed, AMD tested SPEC dynamic and static full loads, through the highest benchmarks not available to be replicated by consumers. The highest loads they observed at any 1 second period with the hottest bin in each SKU from the fabrication line is what they set the TDP as, as that is the maximum heat-power dissipated by the chip. Even those they made clear were not attainable under any maximum load outside of fab. That's what decided Phenom TDPs as we know.
The reason they did this was as the theoretical peak TDP was never observed in real-life usage, ever. The peak everyone was interested in is what could be observed with the maximum software load available for their home desktop/workstation/server. Mostly, server departments would moan about having many server racks free but not enough power available to add extra systems (thereotical data and calculations are for their assistance primarily). Their facilities manager would tell them, you cannot add a single Watt more. So they would moan and ask about how they could decrease this wattage and yet increase performance and fill the racks. That's why AMD then tested to give out the maximum power the server can pull out of these CPU's at full load, as that would then tell you better what cooling and power supply you would need and the bills per month for that entire rack.

AMD then publically stated to everyone (non-verbatim): "Buy a $30 domestic power meter and run your system with the intended software, whether Intel or AMD, at full load. That is the way to get your power, not by looking at TDP, which is worst case scenario intended for cooling solutions and thermal management only." (search John Fruehe comments)

As in home, P95 v25.6 didn't even get close to 93W for my Phenom. The way I'll measure it next is using the Gigabyte Odin PSU logger, it gives you the amps draw very close to fully accurate from each rail. Once I can tap off which rail is powering which connector, I can get the amps and measure the volts using a DMM and through the software to ascertain maximum stock idle and load power by the CPU and components. :)

Look to Achim too, he was after getting the same utility and PSU.

As for power meter results: I'l post some later on. ;)

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A side note. Check this, as I stated, a paper hyped launch. My boss (UK) was after the SkullTrail for a long time... no availability here for at least 3 weeks yet (Intel says directly). Prices:
$4100 = $2050 x 2 for both QX9775
$800 for MB
$2000 for CAS5 ValueRAM 4x 4GB

And no stock on any of those yet (check Tekheads for instance). Absolute lunatic prices. I would rather by a 16-core Tigerton and annhilate that performance in half. :mad:

@KTE I think you mentioned in another thread that MSI is working on a new bios to add NB multi and the settings for P-states back into a newer bios. Yesterday they finally replied to my online customer service request regarding the same thing. They gave me a username and PW but it keeps giving the alert 530 not logged in when I try and use it there to get to their private bios site. So soon as I get that working I'll let you know what they've got set up. Specifically asked for a cross between 1.1b3 and P0j

And cmon, stay with the dark side....you know you wanna do it ;P. Only thing I can recommend is to not use the stock cooler this time. Nirvana 120 premium, TRUE, or something of that caliber, should easily handle the heat.

On the other hand, the multiple cpu death thing that seems to revolve around the NB/IMC kinda gives hard evidence of a hotspot on the die causing probably the TLB and part of the reason the phenom were released with the IMC/L3 being clocked so low.

And as far as all that can be tweaked thats why I enjoy mine so much as well, granted *knock on wood* I haven't had the processor death problem yet. Granted I've also been able to OC at lower voltages than you have as far as I can tell though as well which probably helps. I kinda wish those ODIN Psu's didn't cost so much.

I think I'm actually about the same way when it comes to showing interest in computing in reality. Now IF I'm talking to another person that's interested, then yeah I'll talk about it. But same here it's by no means my life. Though I've actually recently started to play games on my computer again, which is something I hadn't done much of since I got the phenom build goin. I gotta laugh, I've been the same way about roleplaying gaming for a long time as well. I enjoy RPGing, but I don't talk about it outside of the game, or in the rare occasion it comes up in conversation, even though thats about a 50/50 whether I'll talk about it. Bad part is I've had friends on the other hand, that do nothing but talk about gaming 2/3 of the time, thats what kinda turned me off to being such a dork about it.

And no I haven't tried to OC the Toxic edition yet, but let me tell ya the VaporX cooler is freakin amazing. Card Idols at around 40-45c, at that temp the fan rarely runs if at all, full load in half life 2 episode 2 with high setting it stays below 60c, and even then the fan isn't going above 50&#37;, and thats without ATiTool, if I use ATiTOol it runs even cooler. Thats at factory default 800mhz core, should easily be able to go much faster, but I'm a noob when it comes to OCing vid cards so not sure how high I could get, should hit 825 easy, since that was what the atomic which is the same card was clocked at, only difference between the two is the name on the card, and package contents. You don't get the $30 etailer thing, or the metal briefcase, you get a 6ft hdmi cable instead of a 9ft, you get valve blackbox free (can't remember if atomic was orange box or blackbox.