Can anyone rate the primochill Typhoon III?

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Originally Posted by coolmiester

The sad part about this whole train wreck is that it all could have been avoided with some basic pre-release testing.

I got a couple of pretty early release T3 samples and made everyone aware of some fundamental design flaws which could have easily been picked up on and corrected had any sort of pre testing been done but this was way to late as a full production run had already been made and retailer shelves were already being stacked but little did anyone realise at that point, the T3 was literally a ticking time bomb waiting to be installed into countless systems around the world.

Six months down the line and forums all around the globe are literally littered with the carnage this little plastic toy res has left in it wake and guess what.....there is nobody going to be held accountable for all the broken hardware never mind the res itself.

I said at the time, i was, and still am a fan of this type of res/pump combo due to how it can be mounted in a couple of drive bays but i can only presume that testing was totally sacrificed due to the pull of making money.....and lots of it judging by how many people have these.

My own experience....

I got my two T3's installed into the Zotac mod which was shipped to Denmark for an nVidia conference but on its arrival the entire Skulltrail system including two GTX295's was a soggy mess due to total failure of both T3's and never to work again so i didn't come out of this one unscathed.

I'm sorry i have little sympathy for how this turned out as it all could have been avoided had greed been put aside and some simple testing put in place but instead it was decided to use the buying public as Guinea Pigs which just isn't acceptable in my book.

I know little of the relationship between Brian and Geno but is it any wonder the two parties have fallen out and the mud slinging started when nether is prepared to accept responsibility yet prefer to blame each other in an open forum which IMO is probably the only good thing to come out of this so hopefully we won't get burned with another epic fail any time soon.

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Insightful post as always. The reality though was that the parts were tested extensively before any products shipped. Though I was not the official testing entity I personally beat the crap out of dozens of T3's early on. I still have most of them in fact. The last batch of samples I tested were bullet proof. I took a fully assembled T3 and hurled it at the floor of my shop. It is that thin industrial carpet over concrete, no padding. The corner that hit chipped off about a quarter inch in either direction and that was the extent of the damage. Hardly a scientific test I know, but when I do the same test on a T3 now it literally shatters into many smaller parts. Common sense says something is different between the two runs of parts.

The mistake is assuming that the company that made the samples, which is also the company that did the China production runs made every successive production run to the same standards as they did on the initial test samples. It is impossible to look at two crystal clear parts and know if one was processed differently.

Although I am not a fan of injection molded clear plastics in mission critical (holding water under pressure) applications based on my experiences with the T3 development process, meaning I would not do it again because it's a PITA, the concept and design are still a very viable product if one relatively simple step in the process is guaranteed. Annealing. I do believe that the poor mix ratios (way too much UV stabilizer) in the Chinese shop was a big factor in the cracking issue we saw in later runs of parts but the major issue is that parts were not annealed. This is just my opinion and as always I will state I am not a plastics expert by any stretch.

When plastics are molded uneven heating and cooling cause "built in" stresses. It is a very well known and documented factor in molded plastics and is removed by slowly heating the plastic parts to a preset temperature, holding the part at that temperature for a preset time, then allowing for a gradual and controlled cooling. The entire process is usually performed in special ovens that have a specific gas in them. Don't take my word for it, Google "Plastic Annealing" and you will find tons of information on the subject.

If you remove the built in stresses the plastic is stronger and there are no more built in stresses and the cracking issue goes away. The parts should be tapped first then annealed as the tapping process will also build in stresses and weaken the threads.

I know parts for 500 units shipped from California and although my shop will not be doing post production I doubt Brian is going to risk more failures by not having the parts annealed. Believe me I have made him aware of the importance of annealing including links to articles on it so I just can't imagine he is not going to have it done.

Doesn't posting about the T3 violate the forum policy on discussing crackz?

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

Doesn't posting about the T3 violate the forum policy on discussing crackz?

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I have no idea if this is a joke or your being serious. :confused:

Nice one DB.
Well, the spelling with a "z" leads me to believe the software hacking is implied. DB's got a good head on his shoulders, with plenty of humor too.

Now I think I'm going to have to buy a new res for my build. That's a shame.

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Originally Posted by the finisher

WTF, this anin't no joke, alot of people are out money+hardware+ more money. I have a shiny plastic paper weight!:mad:

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From one San Ace collector to another.....It does not help to get all excited about it either. A good laugh is good for you from time to time. Everyone handles the stress differently. I know I had to laugh at my last disaster to keep from going crazy angry and eating my neighbours again. Ummmmm strike that last remark from the record... :eek:

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Originally Posted by Sadasius

From one San Ace collector to another.....It does not help to get all excited about it either. A good laugh is good for you from time to time. Everyone handles the stress differently. I know I had to laugh at my last disaster to keep from going crazy angry and eating my neighbours again. Ummmmm strike that last remark from the record... :eek:

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Yea, but it's kinda bad timing. I'd buy another res. but money's real tight now, alot of that going around.

I have to admit, if the replacements aren't any good. My warranty is worth 0, and as such I'm now pissed, sorry:)

Ahh not really!

Wow. Gonna be spreading this news around.

Primochill better get their act together before the entire watercooling community boycotts them.

I will be getting a Delrin model out as soon as I can but I will be starting from Scratch. I have no doubt Brian will alter the design a little and get one out sooner. Either way you will have options here shortly.

I am just going to make the best parts I can and not worry about it. I have no doubt that deep down Brian knows producing my designs is plain and simple theft. My wife just put in perspective for me, She said he may sugar coat or try to rationalize it or think he is OK with stealing my work but he WILL know what kind of man he is, his wife will know, and they will know we know. I am still holding out hope that he will do the right thing, but if he doesn't...then he doesn't.

I also am a big believer in Karma. Mines in good shape.

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Originally Posted by BoxGods

Please do not say sorry to me. They are ignoring me as well. I have ended my relationship with them and am no longer doing the post and packaging on the T3. They are pretty much blackmailing me by saying I either give up my share of the PROFITS from the T3 and the new Split Window reservoir or they will steal all my designs.

Unfortunately at this point I do not think their is an amicable solution that does not involve a lawsuit. On the upside, thanks to working with them for three years I am so broke that I don't have anything left to loose. I will do anything and everything in my power to make sure that if they DO steal my designs it will cost them more then they make. If that means free designs for every company on earth that competes with them then so be it. If I have to personally oversee manufacturing for them for free, so be it.

Cease and desists, lawsuits and counter-suites and all the associated drama to follow.

There is nothing more dangerous then a man that has nothing to loose.

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What nerve! To collect profits when people are out of money, hardware and time.

They should be issuing recalls and refunding money.

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Originally Posted by the finisher

WTF, this anin't no joke, alot of people are out money+hardware+ more money. I have a shiny plastic paper weight!:mad:

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I have been water-cooling long enough to have lost hardware here and there. If you can't joke around about it you should go to air-cooling. Its either laugh or cry. A word of advice based on my experience: When water-cooling, use protection:
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7...derman4vd8.jpg

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

When water-cooling, use protection:
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7...derman4vd8.jpg

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DB, I don't know what we'd do around here without your sense of humor... :rofl:

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Originally Posted by hchristian

what nerve! To collect profits when people are out of money, hardware and time.

They should be issuing recalls and refunding money.

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yes!

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

I have been water-cooling long enough to have lost hardware here and there. If you can't joke around about it you should go to air-cooling. Its either laugh or cry. A word of advice based on my experience: When water-cooling, use protection:
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7...derman4vd8.jpg

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I am using protection, Rubbermaid catch basin.:rofl:

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Originally Posted by BoxGods

I will be getting a Delrin model out as soon as I can but I will be starting from Scratch. I have no doubt Brian will alter the design a little and get one out sooner. Either way you will have options here shortly.

I am just going to make the best parts I can and not worry about it. I have no doubt that deep down Brian knows producing my designs is plain and simple theft. My wife just put in perspective for me, She said he may sugar coat or try to rationalize it or think he is OK with stealing my work but he WILL know what kind of man he is, his wife will know, and they will know we know. I am still holding out hope that he will do the right thing, but if he doesn't...then he doesn't.

I also am a big believer in Karma. Mines in good shape.

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Once you have it ready PM me here, I'll be buying yours, not Brian's. Might even get two. Yes, Karma can be a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:.

@rogueagent6 -- Thanks but it is going to take a while unfortunately.

And about DB...just be thankful he isn't posting his big girls images...enough to put you off your feed...and I even like the big girls lol.

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Originally Posted by BoxGods

@rogueagent6 -- Thanks but it is going to take a while unfortunately.

And about DB...just be thankful he isn't posting his big girls images...enough to put you off your feed...and I even like the big girls lol.

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or my midget images . . . .

wow, i was planning on buying the primochill colored tubing, but now after reading through all of this, I think I'm gonna have to go with feser

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Originally Posted by MeeksMan13

wow, i was planning on buying the primochill colored tubing, but now after reading through all of this, I think I'm gonna have to go with feser

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The Feser/DD stuff is just as good. You have to buy it from DD I think.

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

The Feser/DD stuff is just as good. You have to buy it from DD I think.

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Good deal, cause after reading this stuff, I'm not putting ANY money in the pockets of Primochill

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Originally Posted by MeeksMan13

Good deal, cause after reading this stuff, I'm not putting ANY money in the pockets of Primochill

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all the 3/8" stuff here. I will check the other stuff when I am at DD Saturday to see what the bend radius is like. The 3/8" was specifically designed to be a Tygon replacement and has kick arse bend radius and looks sweet.
http://www.dangerden.com/store/uv-reactive-tubing/

Just hate the damn UV black though as it looks purple. After I got some I did not use it. In the dark though it looks black but when you turn the UV on it is a bright blue. Just too weird. Wish they had just black....I mean a real black and not purple like Feser/DD or brownish like Primochill.

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

all the 3/8" stuff here. I will check the other stuff when I am at DD Saturday to see what the bend radius is like. The 3/8" was specifically designed to be a Tygon replacement and has kick arse bend radius and looks sweet.
http://www.dangerden.com/store/uv-reactive-tubing/

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I was hoping to put 7/16" red UV tubing in my loop when I change over, but it looks like if I want red, non-primochill, i'll have to go with 1/2" and clamps

Wow BG, I'm surprised at Brian. I'll be getting a replacement from you when you get them going. Seems a PrimoChill boycott is in order. :shakes:

As much as I appreciate the support guys, DB will tell you that I am a firm believer that the work comes first meaning that the quality of your build is more important then me getting screwed. Primo Flex LRT is a great product, no point in compromising your build.

quality of builds and loops IS very important to a lot of people on these forums, which is why we support people like you BG. If it means going as far as not ordering PrimoChill tubing when I do my next drain-and-fill because of the bad taste this thread has left me with, then so be it.

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Originally Posted by BoxGods

As much as I appreciate the support guys, DB will tell you that I am a firm believer that the work comes first meaning that the quality of your build is more important then me getting screwed. Primo Flex LRT is a great product, no point in compromising your build.

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I have both right here and both are great. I would recommend either to people.

BG, sorry to hear about the falling out. If I'm not mistaken, PC is also somehow connected to Moddersmart (formerly Voyeurmods), if this is the case. . .I'm really not surprised. It reminds me of an old Native American parable.

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A scorpion was walking along the bank of a river, wondering how to get to the other side. Suddenly, he saw a fox. He asked the fox to take him on his back across the river.

The fox said, "No. If I do that, you'll sting me, and I'll drown."

The scorpion assured him, "If I do that, we'll both drown."

The fox thought about it and finally agreed. So the scorpion climbed up on his back, and the fox began to swim. But halfway across the river, the scorpion stung him. As poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and said, "Why did you do that? Now you'll drown, too."

"I couldn't help it," said the scorpion. "It's my nature."

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

BG, sorry to hear about the falling out. If I'm not mistaken, PC is also somehow connected to Moddersmart (formerly Voyeurmods), if this is the case. . .I'm really not surprised. It reminds me of an old Native American parable.

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This is one area RRR or someone over that has the story right (I hate to admit it but when I am wrong I am wrong and there is no shame in admitting those I do not like are right). There is a fun story. I thought this resevoir was a great thing and the idea is great the execution sucked. All that matters is end users have fubar stuff. I am hope they are taken care of. Hopefully Geno can get one in production in delrin as that is the only one that probably should be on the market. Personally I think people should get full refunds.

I think the idea is great. Mine still works, it just doesn't work for my current build. I think the QC is the issue here and the customer service around that is the second major area. Now while some may say the design was flawed, the testing was skewed or that certain people were shilling the product, the reality is that it is a good design, but as DB pointed out, somewhere along the line the execution became flawed. I still stand by what I said originally, that this product was a great idea. Unfortunately, things have happened that have caused that idea to be warped. If Primochill wants to make this right, they need to step up and take care of their customers first. Yes, I believe they have done Geno wrong, and they should fix that if they want their rep with future designers to be worth something, however this is really about the customer and right now that needs to be the priority. This is not a time of "I told you so." since that serves no purpose and I am sure plenty of folks are saying that right now, but what does that accomplish. The real issue is that customers got a product that was flawed and while we have seen this in the past from everyone from Koolance to BP, the difference is that those companies took care of their customers.

@DB - As far as either RRR or someone over there having the the story right, it is only partially correct. The main gripe they had was that the design was flawed, the testing was skewed and people, such as myself, were shilling the product, all of which was BS. Yes, they had some good points from the way the everything was executed, but to go so far as accusing people of shilling or falsifying tests was wrong. And while you might admit you were wrong about something, they never will.

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Originally Posted by Utnorris

I think the idea is great. Mine still works, it just doesn't work for my current build. I think the QC is the issue here and the customer service around that is the second major area. Now while some may say the design was flawed, the testing was skewed or that certain people were shilling the product, the reality is that it is a good design, but as DB pointed out, somewhere along the line the execution became flawed. I still stand by what I said originally, that this product was a great idea. Unfortunately, things have happened that have caused that idea to be warped. If Primochill wants to make this right, they need to step up and take care of their customers first. Yes, I believe they have done Geno wrong, and they should fix that if they want their rep with future designers to be worth something, however this is really about the customer and right now that needs to be the priority. This is not a time of "I told you so." since that serves no purpose and I am sure plenty of folks are saying that right now, but what does that accomplish. The real issue is that customers got a product that was flawed and while we have seen this in the past from everyone from Koolance to BP, the difference is that those companies took care of their customers.

@DB - As far as either RRR or someone over there having the the story right, it is only partially correct. The main gripe they had was that the design was flawed, the testing was skewed and people, such as myself, were shilling the product, all of which was BS. Yes, they had some good points from the way the everything was executed, but to go so far as accusing people of shilling or falsifying tests was wrong. And while you might admit you were wrong about something, they never will.

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you misread my post. i did not say there were right about everything, just some things ;)

I have no axe to grind either way but just because Brian chooses not to wash this pile of dirty laundry in public doesn't mean he is the bad guy in all of this.

There are always two sides to every story and all i'm hearing right now is one side from a guy who quite obviously has an axe to grind.

Calling for a Primochill boycott is absolute nonsense given without them this thing probably would never have reached fruition.

Right now, i don't know if that's a good or bad thing but if i employed a designer i would surely want them to follow through with a product that actually worked and not blame every other person involved rather than taking at least some of the wrap when it all goes tits up.

I would imagine this has hurt Brian pretty bad financially and he's probably not going to be able to at least attempt to put things right if his product are boycotted altogether so why not cut the guy some slack before making any rash decisions.

Just my :2cents:

Hey guys ... wanting to ask that everybody chills. This isn't the place to be talking about boycotts or other potential legal actions.

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Originally Posted by coolmiester

I have no axe to grind either way but just because Brian chooses not to wash this pile of dirty laundry in public doesn't mean he is the bad guy in all of this.

There are always two sides to every story and all i'm hearing right now is one side from a guy who quite obviously has an axe to grind.

Calling for a Primochill boycott is absolute nonsense given without them this thing probably would never have reached fruition.

Right now, i don't know if that's a good or bad thing but if i employed a designer i would surely want them to follow through with a product that actually worked and not blame every other person involved rather than taking at least some of the wrap when it all goes tits up.

I would imagine this has hurt Brian pretty bad financially and he's probably not going to be able to at least attempt to put things right if his product are boycotted altogether so why not cut the guy some slack before making any rash decisions.

Just my :2cents:

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as long as he takes care of his customers, that is what really matters. Since there has been a report of the new units (or at least one) again having a crack issue I would advocate for full refunds so the customers do not risk further problems. If the new units will be the solution he goes with, they should first go to some independent testing facility to ensure their stability before going into any more customers' hands. I will not weigh in on blame as that will work itself out and it is not my place to comment.

Shaz is right in that this forum is NOT the place to start boycotts. Brian, if you are reading this: Please do whatever you can to take care of your customers. Your feelings and Geno's feelings really are of way less importance. Customers first.

I wonder if it's just a short term business decision for PrimoChill to be selling paper weights.

hmmm. Think they're going to start selling mod kits so we can have glowing, battery operated paperweights? That way, we can reed our papers in a midnight windstorm, without worrying about the papers blowing away, or the power lines being knocked down! PrimoChill, innovative solutions to uncommon problems.

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Originally Posted by coolmiester

I have no axe to grind either way but just because Brian chooses not to wash this pile of dirty laundry in public doesn't mean he is the bad guy in all of this.

There are always two sides to every story and all i'm hearing right now is one side from a guy who quite obviously has an axe to grind.

Calling for a Primochill boycott is absolute nonsense given without them this thing probably would never have reached fruition.

Right now, i don't know if that's a good or bad thing but if i employed a designer i would surely want them to follow through with a product that actually worked and not blame every other person involved rather than taking at least some of the wrap when it all goes tits up.

I would imagine this has hurt Brian pretty bad financially and he's probably not going to be able to at least attempt to put things right if his product are boycotted altogether so why not cut the guy some slack before making any rash decisions.

Just my :2cents:

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I don't disagree that the blame may need to go around, unfortunately, the only reason we know what we know is because Geno has come on here to let us know the situation and Brian has not. Go back and read how many times Geno has been in here responding and trying to help and how many times Brian has. The reality is that when you do not say anything then everything can be assumed. I only put the "Boycott" thing in my sig hoping it would get Brian to come in here and give some sort of official response, especially after users are reporting the new ones are faulty too. Remember, this is not a design flaw, but a manufacturing flaw, a designer can only do so much, especially when he is left out of the QC part. No one is holding Toyota's designers at fault, but the manufacture that produced the cars and ignored the QC part. In the past, it was the manufacture reps that came in here and took care of issues, not the designers.

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

Your feelings and Geno's feelings really are of way less importance. Customers first.

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My thoughts exactly. Take care of the customers and they in turn take care of you by being return customers.

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Chorus:
You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away and know when to run
You never count your money, when you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin', when the dealin's done

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Originally Posted by shazza

Hey guys ... wanting to ask that everybody chills. This isn't the place to be talking about boycotts or other potential legal actions.

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Shazza is right (as usual).

To put this thing to bed, My relationship with Primo Chill is officially over in any and all forms. I am not collecting any fees or royalties for any future sales of injection molded T3's and am no longer involved with it in any way shape or form. Whether or not Brian/Primo Chill takes care of the issues is entirely up to him. I would like to believe he will and that is my hope.

I also am convinced that if he can have the parts annealed at a reputable shop (as I have maintained from day one) after tapping and prior to being bonded that the cracking issues will be resolved.

The upside to hundreds of posts in this thread is that I have made many new friends and found that I really enjoy the community here and I intend to continue hanging out in the forums.

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

This is one area RRR or someone over that has the story right (I hate to admit it but when I am wrong I am wrong and there is no shame in admitting those I do not like are right). There is a fun story. I thought this resevoir was a great thing and the idea is great the execution sucked. All that matters is end users have fubar stuff. I am hope they are taken care of. Hopefully Geno can get one in production in delrin as that is the only one that probably should be on the market. Personally I think people should get full refunds.

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

as long as he takes care of his customers, that is what really matters. Since there has been a report of the new units (or at least one) again having a crack issue I would advocate for full refunds so the customers do not risk further problems. If the new units will be the solution he goes with, they should first go to some independent testing facility to ensure their stability before going into any more customers' hands. I will not weigh in on blame as that will work itself out and it is not my place to comment.

Shaz is right in that this forum is NOT the place to start boycotts. Brian, if you are reading this: Please do whatever you can to take care of your customers. Your feelings and Geno's feelings really are of way less importance. Customers first.

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DB, yesterday I was a little miffed with you, actually I was going to confront you on this a little.:gay:
I don't feel that way today:peace:

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Originally Posted by the finisher

[/B]

DB, yesterday I was a little miffed with you, actually I was going to confront you on this a little.:gay:
I don't feel that way today:peace:

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What is there to take issue with (with regard to my statements)? Customers spent money on a faulty product which has no forseable fix. Many of them might no have the means to go buy a replacement part. They should be entitled to a full refund and in short order. That is just good customer service.

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

I have been water-cooling long enough to have lost hardware here and there. If you can't joke around about it you should go to air-cooling.

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

What is there to take issue with (with regard to my statements)? Customers spent money on a faulty product which has no forseable fix. Many of them might no have the means to go buy a replacement part. They should be entitled to a full refund and in short order. That is just good customer service.

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I wasn't taking issue with your statements regarding refunds at all!
It's just that I've already been air cooling for years. Also, if I screw up, have a mishap, and loose hardware, that's my fault. At some point that may happen, that's the risk we all take. I'm more than willing to make fun of myself if it does:D

However, as you state above, that's not the issue with the T3.

I'll have funds to get another reservoir or 2 soon, but of coarse there is nothing like the D-5 pump top/reservoir, Geno designed, on the market anyway. IMHO this is truly an innovative idea. I hope Geno can get a reliable rev. 2 to market before the copy's inevitably show up.

On the same subject, I've done some research on blow molded plastics. Geno's assertion that annealing the parts after machining + the proper mix of additives in the plastic, would have avoided this train wreck altogether. This is accurate IMHO. Cutting production corners on such a critical component as this, is a dumba** move!

http://www.annealingplastics.com/

http://www.eastcoastmfg.com/plastic_annealing.htm-"Screw threads are a feature in a plastic component that benefits from annealing. Part failure can occur since the screw places a steady long-term stress on the component in combination with the residual stress from the machining process. Annealing the part reduces the machining stress at the threads and in most cases, the screw stress alone is not normally enough to cause part failure."

This ones in my practicaly in my back yard :)http://www.arrowcryogenics.com/annealing.htm

http://www.connecticutplastics.com/c...ess-relieving/

Here's alot of info on the subject. http://www.bayermaterialsciencenafta...ling_batch.pdf




Hey, Shiner,TX, where the first shop is located, makes Shiner Bock=awesome:toast2:

I also want to say something about this in regard's to Geno's candor about this subject. If Geno had not posted info about the production irregularities here, more people including me, may have installed or left this "time bomb" installed. He has looked out for Primo's customers as best he could, in my estimation.

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Originally Posted by the finisher

At this point I'm emailing them for a full refund. We shall see:yepp:

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I can't see how you can claim a refund if you haven't used (installed) the product. But I do believe a recall and replacement is in order, if that can't be acheived in a timely manner a refund might be deserved.

I don't think Primochill need to slang it out on this forum, private business agreements should remain private, what I do think is Primochill should inform us of counter-measures and timelines in delivering a product fit for purpose, and soon. I'm sick of having a brand new i7 machine out of action.

Ric

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Originally Posted by Ricardo40

I can't see how you can claim a refund if you haven't used (installed) the product. But I do believe a recall and replacement is in order, if that can't be acheived in a timely manner a refund might be deserved.

I don't think Primochill need to slang it out on this forum, private business agreements should remain private, what I do think is Primochill should inform us of counter-measures and timelines in delivering a product fit for purpose, and soon. I'm sick of having a brand new i7 machine out of action.

Ric

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Catch 22, why isn't yours installed? First you say one thing, then another. A timely manner:rofl:

I agree, and I don't expect them to slug it out here.
However, Brian has posted 2 times only.

With Geno out of the loop, now no info on the T3.
Fixes, replacements, do I have to wait till it fails? Nothing.
Should all T3 owners email separately for these answers? I guess yes, am doing tomorrow.


I'll just hook it up to a bucket and let it run, but with out mounting in a case,+ the pressure, and temp cycles. I still won't trust it. I really don't want to set up a functioning loop just to test for failure. And for how long? Beta tester anyone?

Keep in mind my T3 was made at a very suspect time, heard of many failures, from that "vintage". Also, mine was drilled on top for the fill port. That makes it even more likely to fail. See my post above.

Let me be clear. I would be very happy with a reliable, functioning product.

I think any one who bit, has a right to ask questions:yepp:

I was told my replacements would be sent out last Friday.
No replacements, no replies to numerous e-mails.
And a corei7 + GTX295 PC sitting going to rot.
This whole situation is one big joke.
Although on the bright side it has taught me one very valuable lesson ;)

If you did get a drilled one, I think Geno did all the drilling, but I could be wrong.

I understand the issues and I feel bad about suggesting these. Mine is still good, but I have one of the direct ones that replaced the yellow band ones. It seems those must be about the highest quality ones as most people who got those are reporting they are still working. I also never had any issues with getting a hold of Brian, but I also called him each time and never really used the online system.

It would be nice if Brian could give updates. I tried looking on Primochill's site and I still don't see anything there.

I'm going to be replacing mine anyways though. I hope you guys that got their hands on the bad ones, get things resolved.

i got mine back in august, this weekend i turned up the pump to full speed and saw it pulling in air bubbles from one of the screw holes for the pump cover plate. more inspection showed a slight crack, i might fix it later with some fish tank silicon glue, but it will never go in the case again.

So was looking forward to getting a T3. Been waiting for my tax return to finish out my loop and thought a t3 would fit nicely. But it seems there's been a pseudo recall on T3's.

Yet i hear there is hope with a Delrin T3....any ETA on this?

In case the Delrin T3 is months out can anyone recommend an alternate dual bay res?

XSPC res with MCP355's.

It would be great if T3 owners would post there experience's here. I have heard alot of stories of fail. Not many about success. Doen't mean there arn't any, but haven't heard many.:shrug:

Obviously stories of woe, will get more attention. And people who feel ripped off, are going to make more noise. :cussing:

It's useful to learn about others experiences,[good & bad] as now that's the only info on this fine product.
Of course what would realy be nice is if, the Guy who sold these, would comment on the situation/solutions here. He knows it's here, either ignoring,or just doesn't care.:yepp:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Manicdan

i got mine back in august, this weekend i turned up the pump to full speed and saw it pulling in air bubbles from one of the screw holes for the pump cover plate. more inspection showed a slight crack, i might fix it later with some fish tank silicon glue, but it will never go in the case again.

---

Don't bother with repair, once cracking begins, it won't stop.

Thinking about how to acquire a great many of the failed ones, shouldn't cost much, just shipping.

Maybe mod a special computer case out of them for illustrative purpose's:rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Setix

So was looking forward to getting a T3. Been waiting for my tax return to finish out my loop and thought a t3 would fit nicely. But it seems there's been a pseudo recall on T3's.

Yet i hear there is hope with a Delrin T3....any ETA on this?

In case the Delrin T3 is months out can anyone recommend an alternate dual bay res?

---

Why would you even consider buying anything from Primo after this?

If you want this form factor, as I do. Wait, other company's will have something very much like this relatively soon. Not in acrylic.

Well my T3 is almost 4 months old so far no cracking, I guess you could call that a Success Story LOL

I just hope it stays that way until the New Delrin T3's come out because I will buy one as soon as they are out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moto450

Well my T3 is almost 4 months old so far no cracking, I guess you could call that a Success Story LOL

I just hope it stays that way until the New Delrin T3's come out because I will buy one as soon as they are out.

---

That's good to know, any more story's of non failure?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Setix

So was looking forward to getting a T3. Been waiting for my tax return to finish out my loop and thought a t3 would fit nicely. But it seems there's been a pseudo recall on T3's.

Yet i hear there is hope with a Delrin T3....any ETA on this?

In case the Delrin T3 is months out can anyone recommend an alternate dual bay res?

---

No, no recall, or pseudo recall, that's my issue. From everything I gather, the official policy is replacement on failure.:down:

And what of the hardware that goes with it? :eek:

No offense to PrimoChill, but they'll probably blame us.

Replacing all that hardware could cost them a fortune (not sure how much was lost). They'll probably say they are not responsible, because we handled the T3 improperly (screws too tight, etc).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the finisher

That's good to know, any more story's of non failure?

---

I've posted a few times here about mine. Must of got lost in the mix of all the T3 threads. ;)

Mine is still running fine, I got one of the yellow band ones and that was replaced as soon as the clear bond ones came out on an RMA.

I'll be replacing it though, as I prefer not to take the chance. If BG gets the delrin version out, I will probably get that, If not I was looking at EK's dual D5 top as a possibility. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alexandr0s

No offense to PrimoChill, but they'll probably blame us.

Replacing all that hardware could cost them a fortune (not sure how much was lost). They'll probably say they are not responsible, because we handled the T3 improperly (screws too tight, etc).

---

With the track record for fail across the interwebs, I think It's unlikely they are able to blame users.

I won't dispute the importance of not over torquing a plastic reservoir. However this would not explain long term failure. It would crack on install.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by millertime359

I've posted a few times here about mine. Must of got lost in the mix of all the T3 threads. ;)

Mine is still running fine, I got one of the yellow band ones and that was replaced as soon as the clear bond ones came out on an RMA.

I'll be replacing it though, as I prefer not to take the chance. If BG gets the delrin version out, I will probably get that, If not I was looking at EK's dual D5 top as a possibility. :D

---

That's exactly what I did, FrozenCPU has the white derlin model for $56. It's sexy by the way. :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rogueagent6

That's exactly what I did, FrozenCPU has the white derlin model for $56. It's sexy by the way. :up:

---

Nice, but not a bay res/pump top like T3.

I have heard that iandh will have one!:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the finisher

Nice, but not a bay res/pump top like T3.

I have heard that iandh will have one!:D

---

Nice, but that does me no good right now, and I already had a spare MCRES on hand plus 2 D5s. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the finisher

Nice, but not a bay res/pump top like T3.

I have heard that iandh will have one!:D

---

Well, it is something like one. They mount into the drive bays and you can mount a tube res to it. It's not the samething, but close enough. ;)

If you really want a dual bay res, and don't want to take the chance, or wish to wait on the delrin T3, the XSPC is going to be your best bet.

You will have to change over to DDCs though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by millertime359

Well, it is something like one. They mount into the drive bays and you can mount a tube res to it. It's not the samething, but close enough. ;)

If you really want a dual bay res, and don't want to take the chance, or wish to wait on the delrin T3, the XSPC is going to be your best bet.

You will have to change over to DDCs though.

---

I have 2 D-5s, that would be good, get a ianh tube reservoir. Pump redundancy
would be good. Plus the extra muscle of 2 pumps, and could still do parallel loops, or not.:up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the finisher

get a ianh tub reservoir.

---

looks like there's a future for the T3 after all. had to get my typo laugh in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the finisher

I have 2 D-5s, that would be good, get a ianh tube reservoir. Pump redundancy
would be good. Plus the extra muscle of 2 pumps, and could still do parallel loops, or not.:up:

---

You'll have to check to see if iandh's tube res is the same diameter of the EK tube res. Otherwise you will have to get the EK version if you want to mount it directly to the top.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the finisher

It would be great if T3 owners would post there experience's here. I have heard alot of stories of fail. Not many about success. Doen't mean there arn't any, but haven't heard many.:shrug:

Obviously stories of woe, will get more attention. And people who feel ripped off, are going to make more noise. :cussing:

It's useful to learn about others experiences,[good & bad] as now that's the only info on this fine product.
Of course what would realy be nice is if, the SOB who sold these, would comment on the situation/solutions here. He knows it's here, either ignoring,or just doesn't care.:yepp:

---

Bought mine when they were released and is still running fine pretty much 24/7

Haven't used any of the supplied screws tho, used M3 screws instead of M3,5 and they are just there to hold it in place a bit since it's resting on my DVD Drive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by millertime359

You'll have to check to see if iandh's tube res is the same diameter of the EK tube res. Otherwise you will have to get the EK version if you want to mount it directly to the top.

---

I was thinking pumps and top in the bays, and a nice tube res on the wall.

That would seem to be space efficient. Without getting out a measuring tape

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by damunk

Bought mine when they were released and is still running fine pretty much 24/7

Haven't used any of the supplied screws tho, used M3 screws instead of M3,5 and they are just there to hold it in place a bit since it's resting on my DVD Drive.

---

That's good to hear.:) Geno had posted about how he beat on the protos, and first runs. Surly the Chinese shop royally screwed up some of these batches. But which ones.:down:

Maybe put a rubber mat on that drive;)

Mine has been purring along for several months now (I don't recall how long). The only problem I have had was with those crappy nylon fittings. ALL of them eventually broke. Fortunately my res is on the bottom of the case so nothing was harmed by the gushing water.
I still have no cracks, no crazes, no problems.:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by genec57

Mine has been purring along for several months now (I don't recall how long). The only problem I have had was with those crappy nylon fittings. ALL of them eventually broke. Fortunately my res is on the bottom of the case so nothing was harmed by the gushing water.
I still have no cracks, no crazes, no problems.:)

---

Thanks for the update:up:

Glad to see people are not having problems.
Just pulled out my 4th T3 due to leaking from pump bracket.
The T3 was cracking again at the screw holes for the pump bracket.
They were not overtighened and still cannot get Brian at primochill.
All have leaked at this point and all 4 are sitting gathering dust.
I have ordered a XSPC-750-BPUMP as a standby until this is sorted.
I either want my money back or some sort of compensation.
It seems that once it cracks , no matter how small, they just spread out like wildfire until it leaks.
Primochill SORT IT OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This cracking plague everyone is getting is awful :(

It really needs to be sorted out ASAP by Primochill.

My 8-port in my testbed has never been mounted in a case (it's velcro'd to a flat surface) and the mounting holes are starting to crack as well (:wth:). I'm upgrading my testbed again in the next month, so I guess it's time to put a new res on the list as well :fact:

It must use the worst grade of acrylic possible.
The XSPC res I have ordered is cheaper than the T3 and it has a pump built into the res.
I know it's not great but at least I will be using my PC with confidence again.
I have invested over £200 in this res with the cost of res, pump, faceplate and 1 replacement and after 6 months it has all come down to me replacing it all with the XSPC res+pump setup I threw out at the start.
Irony has a funny meaning for me at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barso

I have invested over £200 in this res with the cost of res, pump, faceplate and 1 replacement and after 6 months it has all come down to me replacing it all with the XSPC res+pump setup I threw out at the start.
Irony has a funny meaning for me at this point.

---

So, how much money do you suppose has been spent here? Especially by customers who sprung for extra like us.
i.e. customers who buy extras, should not be screwed with. They are probably your next customers, duh:explode2: Irony)

Mine broke from the start...
Got a replacement with plastic screws and no metal inserts.

I think its ok ... this morning I found a drop... I need to check it out - no cracks though.

If you have found a drop, GET IT OUT!
Honestly, that's how it starts.

:( I know...

maybe its just the fitting...

The new one is bad too ?

What will be a good replacement ?

Guy's I think this ones a write off.:yepp:

the first T3 I owned cracked from the sides
Got a replacement with plastic screws and no metal inserts and it cracked
where the plastic screw is in

and now waiting for some reply from brian

Man, I wish I knew how many of these were sold.

Brian either needs to start issuing refunds or step up to the mark.
I am close to accepthing the fact that the T3 is finished in primochills hands.
I would not be suprises if Geno has walked away from it altogether.
The only way to fix it is to make a delrin version which is not going to happen.

Brian I want my money back!!!!!!!!!!

I think this could get more ugly yet, if the re-engineered replacements are failing as well.:shakes:
I have no hope I'll ever see any $ in this.

To me this is a write off, wonder if it could be considered a business expense?:ROTF::dammit:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barso

I would not be suprises if Geno has walked away from it altogether.
The only way to fix it is to make a delrin version which is not going to happen.

---

He said the relationship ended a while back. Not pleasantly. He hasn't posted here since.

Can't say as I blame him, with lawyers, and all that crap.:shrug:

I have had all 3 versions.
The 1st with the yellow band, the 2nd with the missing yellow band and the new one from the manufacturing plant closer to their home.
All 3 have failed in the exact same spot.
The T3 is what's commonly known as a disaster.
Walk away from it with a valuable lesson well learnt.
The last thing I heard from Brian was another new revision is being tested at the moment and my replacements should have already been sent.
But alas, after many emails I have heard nothing.
Personally I think Brian has stuck his head in the sand and we are all left with wasted money.

I think I will pull mine out today and look it over and see how it is holding up. I need to buy another Res to get by until the new version comes out and that maybe a LONG WHILE. I guess it is time to design another loop for a different Res. and stop worrying about this thing killing my new system, I have way, way to much money in this system now to have it go BOOM :eek:

That's how I feel.
We all need a system we can leave on and know that it can be left unattended.
With the T3 installed I find myself checking for drips as soon as i turn it on and every 15 minutes thereafter.
Not good.
I have learnt that this thing is a waste of time.
Design was brilliant but execution terrible.
I don't blame geno one bit but I do blame Brian for cutting corners.
Although I am sure geno still took his cut of the profits anyway.

At this point, profits, as you put it, are a distant memory. For all parties concerned.

At least other manufacturers can learn form these mistakes. And offer what the market obviously wanted.:up:

full refund.

The biggest problem is who will issue refunds?
The retailer will try and blame primochill and primochill will try and make the retailer issue the refund.
Also the 2 T3's I purchased from the 2 retailers in the UK are no longer in my care as the 2 leaking T3's I have now are both from Brian's latest revision from his plant back home.
So the retailers may well try and state that the issue is with Brian.
What a mess.
Everyone is out of pocket.
I am pulling all of this out to replace it with what I had at the start that is a 1/4 of the price and never leaked.
2x T3, D5 variable pump, Black aluminium faceplate= £200 wasted
1x XSPC dual 750 bay pump= £ 50
And they say barclaycard is priceless.

I never leave mine unattended at all and I shut it off the min I leave. I hate looking for cracks every time I turn it on. All these failures have made me Gun Shy even if it does not leak YET, but could at any minute just drives me nuts. It is not the money issue for me, until it kills my new system. I think I'm just going to put a new res in and mount the pump and stop looking for cracks.

I'm taking my toys to Xtreme Air for now:)

Bench screamer, I'll just WC the board for now.

Done with this thread, I'm going to have some fun:p:

Of course, I must lurk. Waiting.

Same here, I am going back to air on my next PC upgrade.

You guys might want to lighten up a bit if you want even a chance of being able to speak to Brian here at all. I know I sure as hell wouldn't walk into a group of ppl carrying torches and pitchforks willingly. Of course, considering the attitudes already posted, it's very unlikely we'll see Brian again anyways. Not really saying you guys are wrong for being pissed but, it probably is the wrong way to handle it. Just some food for thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

You guys might want to lighten up a bit if you want even a chance of being able to speak to Brian here at all. I know I sure as hell wouldn't walk into a group of ppl carrying torches and pitchforks willingly. Of course, considering the attitudes already posted, it's very unlikely we'll see Brian again anyways. Not really saying you guys are wrong for being pissed but, it probably is the wrong way to handle it. Just some food for thought.

---

Lightened, and free;)

crack ! :(

The new version I got as replacement, crack+leak from one of the bottom screws of the pump holder...

damn damn damn !

That's were all 4 of mine failed.
Although the last one I pulled out had started cracking at all 4 of the screw holes around the pump holder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

You guys might want to lighten up a bit if you want even a chance of being able to speak to Brian here at all. I know I sure as hell wouldn't walk into a group of ppl carrying torches and pitchforks willingly. Of course, considering the attitudes already posted, it's very unlikely we'll see Brian again anyways. Not really saying you guys are wrong for being pissed but, it probably is the wrong way to handle it. Just some food for thought.

---

Although I agree with you, as a general rule a lack of communication with your customers is a bad idea. I haven't bought this product so I can't comment on its merits or manufacturing faults, however reading this thread doesn't make me want to buy products from Primochill. This is becoming a PR disaster for them.

Some of these guys have had several bad replacements already which means that either Primochill don't test their products or that they don't know what's wrong with them and keep sending replacements hoping the problem will go away.

In any case not communicating with their customers is a very bad idea, and doing so in an open forum like XS would make a lot of sense and would reach quickly a lot of the watercooling community. Showing they care, not only to the unlucky people who bought that product but also to their future potential customers. I understand that it might not be a pleasant experience but it has to be done. In addition I find that the watercooling community is quite reasonable and patient at XS.

My frustration has been vented on here a few times and I apologised for that.
I know that I am mature enough to post on the forum witha clear head but to be honest my PC has been off more than on for the last 6 months due to the problems with the T3.
I understand that Gino is the designer and once he submits his design to Brian then it becomes Brians problem, I think.
But at the moment the only thing I can see saving this is switching from acrylic to delrin and that's not going to happen as it would probably be cheaper to just refund customers and I can't see Brian doing that either.
It really is just one big sorry mistake.
As I started I apologise for any offense that may have been caused by me venting any frustration.
So c'mon Brian, sort this situation because I know it's hard for you to come on here but at least tell us all what's happening with this whole sorry situation.

Waiting. Big Chance here, Brian.:welcome: