The Fermi Thread - Part 3

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Originally Posted by zalbard

5870 already has better performance/watt ratio, even if GTX480 manages to fit into 250W.
I don't see the issue.

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You've lost me. What exactly do you consider to be "very good performance"? Besides, isn't it easier for a slower card to have better "efficiency" since power consumption doesn't scale linearly with performance on any architecture? That's not saying much.

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Originally Posted by thatdude90210

"Fanboy with a source."

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No, not a fanboy. It sounds like professional interest to hype up GF100 to me.

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Originally Posted by annihilat0r

you guys are just so used to seeing things from "sides" like political parties do. If i say something bad about charlie this must mean that i have said something good about nvidia which makes you say bad things about nvidia so that it will counter the bad things i said for charlie. ??

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I think you hit the nail on the head!! :lol2:

the only fanboy who can hype fermi are the ones that have stock option in nvidia .... like dear leader himself ......

Your definition of 'good execution' apparently includes ignoring all of nvidia's recent screwups. I suppose the GT200 was well executed too?

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Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n

yes it is ... journalism these days is all about ad revenu .... even the ones in the papers need to please their boss with their article and their boss need add revenue to live .... so if charlie does it to please someone so he could get more cash then he wins ....

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well its not supposed to be but it is. it works well for semiaccurate's traffic but that doesnt do much for us who want good info/leaks before launch. you should read some of charlie's articles that aren't about nvidia. they are quite different.

Come to think of it, I am now absolutely certain that Charlie gets all his info from someone working at TSMC. This is why he has been dead accurate about tapeouts, respins and release dates. The rest (meaning card specs, features and properties, which I listed in an above post) have nowhere the same solid foundations and I am sure most of those points will prove to be incorrect.

I love it how Charlie is said to be accurate and when his countless mistakes are posted it's like they were excusable. It's obvious he does know SOME info. It is also obvious that he makes up approx 50% to suit his anti nvidia agenda. Pretty lame actually cause i think he would be at least taken seriously if he wasn't so one eyed.

I've said this all along i really hope these cards are good so that we get some competition and lower prices (i still want a 5870- a terrific card).

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Originally Posted by GoldenTiger

I'm not being "an*l" I only posted it once here, at the end of the last thread in response to someone asking for it when I mentioned I had 5870 issues. The thread was locked so I posted it back in here so we could continue our discussion. The original quote was made at a different forum by me that I copied/pasted. These aren't minor issues that I am being "an*l" about and nitpicking: these are major visual glitches/errors that are persistent and constant, as well as other stability issues not listed. There's many many more that would be "nitpicking" to most people, believe me... I don't consider flickering bushes, being unable to force AA/AF in some games, etc. as "nitpicking" and I sincerely doubt many would.

In short, in my personal experiences, the 5870 drivers are mostly garbage: they get the card to run, but it looks like cr*p while doing so. As I said, I'm very much looking forward to being back on an nV card without all the rendering errors. In short, just because you disagree with my opinion and haven't personally had the issues doesn't mean many don't: no need to try to minimize me and claim "oh he posted it a buncha times, must be trolling!" when no such thing occurred :).

Anyway... 26th is NDA drop, anyone know if any cards will be available then or is it the 6th as rumored for being on newegg/et. al :(?

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No I'm not disagreeing with you, I want to know if it's generally true, but the last time you posted that nobody really gave a damn and then you posted it here again when nobody really asked.

It's a week away so, let's hope for competitive pricing.

hmm... weird must be in the wrong thread, i was looking for the fermi thread and I seem to be in the charlie demerjian debate thread...

what the point arguing about this, fermi will launch, the 480 will be faster than the 5870, charlie will be wrong about 90% of his "facts" which his fanboys will ignore... we all know this already so why argue about it...

the only info i care about is accurate info about pricing and availability first week of april...

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Originally Posted by annihilat0r

Come to think of it, I am now absolutely certain that Charlie gets all his info from someone working at TSMC.

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Yes, most likely. An Nvidia employee probably wouldn't have the balls. In any case he definitely has a good source(s) near the chip manufacturing stage since most of his hits are on tape-out dates and yields. Even bumpgate was all about manufacturing. Where he falls flat on his face is with actual product info - architecture, clocks, power, performance etc. Those are mostly guesses spiced up to entertain.

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Originally Posted by Coldon

hmm... weird must be in the wrong thread, i was looking for the fermi thread and I seem to be in the charlie demerjian debate thread...

what the point arguing about this, fermi will launch, the 480 will be faster than the 5870, charlie will be wrong about 90% of his "facts" which his fanboys will ignore... we all know this already so why argue about it...

the only info i care about is accurate info about pricing and availability first week of april...

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if charlie is wrong about 90% of it then we would have fermi today .... since we dont he's right .....


and dont expect fermi to be cheap .....

480GTX Fermi being faster than 5870 is not a problem and not in collision with what Charlie D. said previously(he said roughly the same performance). Since 480GTX will be roughly 10-15% better than 5870,one can consider it is roughly on par with it since 10 or 15% better fps means jack for gamers.One can easily OC his Cypress and match and exceed those 480GTX results with ease,or buy a faster 5890 card to begin with. Yes,one can say you can OC Fermi too,but by how much ? With that huge die and a huge TDP to begin with and already castrated MIMDs,one would need thermo nuclear miniplant and LN2 cooling to keep it sable while OCed for the practical use the 99% of buyers will do with it and that's -gaming. I'm not saying Fermi will be bad,it will be a good gaming range of cards. The 470GTX especially. But to say NV hit the nail on the head ,looking from gaming POV,is simply not true and nobody can turn this around.

wait no new slides or new rocket guy vid? and it went 3-4 pages overnight oh man
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I think charlie was close enough on his predictions of a un-released product months before any confirmation to say he was more right than wrong. For all you know nvidia just changed its specs recently to affect tdp and shader counts. I am sure charlie was right at the very moment he was reporting news. Your all comparing new verses old information, which isnt relevant NOW.

Since fermi is 8 months later then ATi, you can only say its a epic fail.

Fermi fail lol < --- sums up this thread nicely.

charlie also told that chip was hot drew a lot of power when everybody else claimed different and he also new die size before everyone of course he had wrong info about sps but thats pretty normal cause it seems that nvidia couldn't make up there mind until now as far as i remember they started with 512 then it was 480 and so on

Charlie knew because Nvidia has bad security and is a leaking boat of informants that are not paid enough? :shrug:

Anyway since Fermi is looking like it blows at the moment I am awaiting this....the 6870X2 special edition! Okay maybe not....Still interested in what the price of Fermi will be.

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Originally Posted by informal

480GTX Fermi being faster than 5870 is not a problem and not in collision with what Charlie D. said previously(he said roughly the same performance). Since 480GTX will be roughly 10-15% better than 5870,one can consider it is roughly on par with it since 10 or 15% better fps means jack for gamers.One can easily OC his Cypress and match and exceed those 480GTX results with ease,or buy a faster 5890 card to begin with. Yes,one can say you can OC Fermi too,but by how much ? With that huge die and a huge TDP to begin with and already castrated MIMDs,one would need thermo nuclear miniplant and LN2 cooling to keep it sable while OCed for the practical use the 99% of buyers will do with it and that's -gaming. I'm not saying Fermi will be bad,it will be a good gaming range of cards. The 470GTX especially. But to say NV hit the nail on the head ,looking from gaming POV,is simply not true and nobody can turn this around.

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To make a HD5870 get a good 10-15% performance gain, doncha need LN2 cooling anyways? The only real question is will it actually show up and run, seriously, the FX5800 and HD2900XT had more dignified timeframes.

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Originally Posted by Dainas

To make a HD5870 get a good 10-15% performance gain, doncha need LN2 cooling anyways? The only real question is will it actually show up and run, seriously, the FX5800 and HD2900XT had more dignified timeframes.

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no, water cooling is pretty likely to get over 1000Mhz core which is (1000/850*100% = 117%) basically 15% performance boost once it's all said and done. Air cooling usually maxes out at 925-950 depending on fan speeds.



I think it's really funny that Charlie has ended up being one of the most reliable sources of info on fermi, and that is not good news for nVidia. If the 480 is 10% faster than the 5870, that will be a complete failure in my opinion. 8 months late, cut down shaders, lower clock speeds, cut down DP performance, heat issues, do I need to go on?

GTX4xxx prices will break or make the card.

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Originally Posted by Cybercat

If it's only 20-25% faster overall, I consider that a failure.

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I agree, somewhat, where all the hype will fail to live up is a failure, but until they find a new cooling solution or move to quantum computing or vacuum computers then even the best chips won't increase by that much I don' think. An increase of 5% is still a big increase, especially if it happens exponentially to each previous card, which it seems to.

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Originally Posted by weston

no, water cooling is pretty likely to get over 1000Mhz core which is (1000/850*100% = 117%) basically 15% performance boost once it's all said and done. Air cooling usually maxes out at 925-950 depending on fan speeds.



I think it's really funny that Charlie has ended up being one of the most reliable sources of info on fermi, and that is not good news for nVidia. If the 480 is 10% faster than the 5870, that will be a complete failure in my opinion. 8 months late, cut down shaders, lower clock speeds, cut down DP performance, heat issues, do I need to go on?

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The proof is in the pudding, as they say, but if your concerns end up being warranted, and it doesn't have a lowered price to match, I will also view it as a failure.

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Originally Posted by Levish

If I was a business and there is any sort of limited availability, I'd be foolish not to capitalize on this opportunity. They are run on money, not love and hugs.

This doesn't mean that I want prices to go up, it just means that its in your interest as a consumer to get a product and at the lowest price possible, but its in their interest as a reseller to charge as much as they can get for whatever stock they have.

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Your customers also remember when they've been gouged. :up: It truly is a fine line between profit and a repeat customer in this case.

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Originally Posted by Picao84

But Ill stop feed the trolls, anyway. /Ignore

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You have to, there's a small band of regular anti nvidia trolls constantly trying desperately to instigate something. It won't do any good trying to argue with them because right, wrong or otherwise they're just going to hate on nvidia in any regard, might as well be pissing into the wind.