According to SKYMTL, nvidia should be embarrassed to position the GTX460 against Barts (the second part of the sentence was my interpretation).Quote:
Originally Posted by kaktus1907
According to SKYMTL, nvidia should be embarrassed to position the GTX460 against Barts (the second part of the sentence was my interpretation).Quote:
Originally Posted by kaktus1907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey Zeus
werent the 475's discontinued ????
Dude you can'tQuote:
Originally Posted by Loque
1) compare numbers directly across different setups
2) 2x tess doesn't mean other things aren't going on. The fact it can beat a 5870 despite having less units in the test should tell you things are being boosted somewhere
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
and those are only refference board for now ... we might get better stuff for non refference boards
btw will we get an official thread listing all the 6800 reviews instead of this thread???
Wtf lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides
What's embarrassing is that some sites took NVIDIA suggestion and actively tested the GTX 460 OCs against the HD 6800 series without providing OC HD 6800 results for comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
I was going to do just that but my life got a bit tangled at the last minute. :(
yeah legit reviews seems kinda fishyQuote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
so far techpowerup is the best review, went into alot of detail
especially this page on OC/voltage
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/H...D_6870/32.html
looks like 1000mhz @1.275v
a nice update to MSI afterburner should get ride of the CCC limits
Indeed, good thing I was comparing it with sli. How much fps difference are we talking bout here if they did latest drivers. Care to quantify? No? ok good just take it as face value for what it is and know that crossfire looks good enough looking at the techpowerup review added to the mix.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxforces
2nd edit Here ya go Maxforces AT crossfire: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3987/a...range-market/6
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3987/a...ange-market/12
I love that Hardocp included Civ V. That game really taxes any current gen Nvidia or AMD in DX11.
I would love to know how sites are testing Civ. I have yet to experience a way to objectively benchmark it without running into a processor bottleneck on high-end systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by kadozer
btw... great review of the HD6850 & HD6870.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
especially with thisQuote:
Originally Posted by tbone8ty
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/3673/perfoc.gif
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/147/perfoc2.gif
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
how it came out that HD5870 has different results
NVIDIA: 258.96
ATI: Catalyst 10.7
HD 6800: Catalyst 10.10 Oct 12 HD6870 has been tested only on the latest drivers
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone8ty
watercooling block for the 6800 series should get more oc out of those i presume ...
Yeah I know exactly what you mean as a Civ V player. Hardocp states the simulated a small world environment with army battles. Just shows how really taxing this game is, as the larger maps and ai actions in between turns are exponentially bigger as you go from 8 , 16+ players.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
They state they ran FRAPS for 5 min runs. Not sure how reliable that is.
I'm a big Civ player as well (when I have the time) but I have yet to see a situation where a "battle" results in lower FPS than just panning the map. Even a nuke being used later in the game doesn't really have all that much of an impact.Quote:
Originally Posted by kadozer
Heck, it isn't even true 3D; it uses an updated version of 2D sprites with some DX11 features thrown in.
From my experience, the game is seriously CPU bottlenecked once the AI kicks in which means the lowest performance will be when changing turns. Not when the GPU is loaded.
Guru3d review is up again + Crossfire review
Strategy games are notoriously hard to benchmark since they're so CPU intensive... and my experiences with Civ 5 are almost always CPU related it seems
I wanted to chime in and say good review too, SKYMTL. As usual techpowerup is great, and techreport is another I'm waiting for.
I take it you read the conclusion this time too? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
anand included the evga 460 1gb ftw.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
the results were surprising, as it was besting the gtx 470 and 6870.
(although wattage was obviously alot higher than a 6870)
When is Cayman due?
Guru3D
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon...0-6870-review/
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon...sfirex-review/
TechPowerUp!
6870
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6870/
6850 Direct
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...850_Direct_Cu/
6850
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6850/
6870CFX
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...870_CrossFire/
6850 CFX
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...850_CrossFire/
Hexus
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=27053
HardwareCanucks
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...50-review.html
TechGage
http://techgage.com/article/amd_radeon_hd_6870_hd_6850/
LegitReviews
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1445/1/
Tweaktown:
6850
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/360...ard/index.html
6870
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/360...ard/index.html
[H]ard|OCP
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/...eo_card_review
Anandtech
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3987/a...idrange-market
HOT Hardware:
http://hothardware.com/Reviews/AMD-R...-Debut/?page=1
Techgage:
http://techgage.com/article/amd_rade...6870_hd_6850/1
Legion Hardware:
http://www.legionhardware.com/articl...hd_6870,1.html
InsideHW:
http://www.insidehw.com/Reviews/Grap...-Diamonds.html
Bit-Tech:
6850
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/gra...-6850-review/1
6870
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/gra...-6870-review/1
Bjorn3D:
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1941
Overclock3D:
6850/6870
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/g..._6870_review/1
6870 CFX
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/g...usive_review/1
thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Xoulz
Sure. But it needs to be put into context; it's one of (if not THE) highest clocked GTX 460 on the market today. We'll have a review of it but I don't agree with piggybacking something like that onto a launch-day review without providing comparison testing. To each their own I guess.... :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by grimREEFER
Within a month supposedlyQuote:
Originally Posted by tdream
Anandtech and HardwareCanucks hinted that Cayman has more changes, and thats why a lot of the juicy details aren't available yet
I'm very interested in these hints myself... I just hope the new parts provide the same improved efficiency seen with the 6850/70s. I don't care if its a 250watt part if its all buisness. Show me the money:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
Since I run 2560x1600, if I'm going to replace my trusty 4870X2, it'll be with a 6900 series card anyways, but this has me more excited about the 6900's than anything
If Barts is GTS 450 die size, GTX 460 power draw, and GTX470 performance... what in the world will Cayman XT much less Antilles do given that Cayman is supposed to be a die larger than even the 5870??
Let the Cayman speculation begin. I think it needs its own official thread now.
Good call... this one's already super longQuote:
Originally Posted by kadozer
Although given how much secrecy was around Barts up until these last 3 days, Cayman might be on us before we even realize
Some I agree with ... some I don't. At least I gave you my reasons!Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
Again, I find it almost ridiculous how nvidia is trying to do a price war when the performance isn't on the same level.
Well, ATI did the same thing with the 3800s (to a lesser extent) and the 4800's as well. Although in the case of the 4800s, the pricing more or less made the GT200's look absurd if nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
DRIVERQuote:
Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle
Quote:
ATi Catalyst 10.6
ATi Catalyst 8.782 RC2
Nvidia GeForce 257.21
Nvidia GeForce 258.80 (GTX 460
Nvidia GeForce 260.52 (GTS 450
:down:
I find it quite funny that Cayman, the larger chip, has more engineering changes than Barts.
On one hand it's kind of true with the 5800 scaling hitting a diminishing return (so Cayman needs it more) but on the other... bigger risk like GF100.
Outside of marketing, Barts and Cayman were probably parallel projects, one safety-netting the other. The latter was the real meat, the former feels more like a side-project to close the $200 gap.
BTW, history in the making, timelines reversed
Barts = RV770
GF104 = G92
GF100 = GT200
lowend RV770 => highend G92
highend RV770 = 192cc GT200, <= 216cc GT200
lowend barts => highend GF104
highend barts => 465, <= 470
If I ordered a 6870 from the Egg tonight and paid for Fedex Next day
do you folks think I would get it on Saturday? (just asking for a guess ;))
I have a local MicroCenter, but they always seem slow getting new gear and
I'm the impatient sort.....
Theres a Fry's about 100 miles away and they seem to get new stuff sooner.
I'm trying to decide whether to order from the Egg or drive to Indy over the weekend.... :D
can you link up your review skymtl ???
Here is the link. It was posted a few pages back I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
Dude, Patience!!, i would have waited for cayman... a 6950 for 300 bucks must be a really nice thing to seeQuote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
Honestly, Patience is not my forte' and I'm pretty tired of this 4870....
I also have a policy of not paying more than $250 for a VC, besides I'd be pretty shocked if the 6950 comes in ~$300 if the performance is as expected.
Well, if hints dropped on Cayman are true, there's more to Cayman that just a beefed up Barts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
didnt see it between all those other post .. but thanks man
Any chance guys who own the card can test the AF of this card (tunnel, whatever, I can't remember that link which did a thorough review of AF on the 5xxx and gtx 4xx and other cards)?
EDIT: Also, anyone mind to test eyefinity on new configs? I mean, does Displayport 1.1 work with the Displayport Hub, or hell, does it also work with daisy-chaining?
EDIT2: Anandtech did AF tests.
yeah..Quote:
Originally Posted by kadozer
imagine the 6850 with more rops?
One thing I'm wishing to be clarifed is whether or not AMD's Eyespeed is a feature extension of PhysX
It better have more ROPs, yep. Perhaps also a bigger tessellation unit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoulz
So the gain I saw in Vantage (95%) and Heaven (83%) are matched by real world BF:BC2 (94%) scaling gains.Quote:
Originally Posted by kadozer
Looks like AF is finally fixed
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3987/a...ange-market/3#
I am waiting on 6970 but very impressed with the scaling gains especially in my favorite game BC2.
I never even played single player (suppose I could Fraps) but hasn't it been said online play is ~>20fps more than
single player?
Quote:
Originally Posted by initialised
After reading a lot of reviews, I must say this one seems very balanced.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
I can admit when I'm wrong, and this time I have been about canucks showing a bias towards Nvidia.
this review seems to be up there with the best.
Is the legendary sideport coming for Antilles?!
this cards are great choise for mid
http://i079.radikal.ru/1010/a4/05c32e79dc96.jpg
Looking forward for 6970 :up:
I think SKYMTL likes to play the devil's advocate on this forum. Read his reviews rather than his posts here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Motiv
did anyone do an AA screenshot comparison for the new MLAA feature they added?
yes toms hardware did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
i read it, but that was for AF screenshotsQuote:
Originally Posted by flopper
EDIT, i read anandtech, lol
gonna read toms now, thanks!!
In other thread forum user Lokinhow linked a gif image showing the difference:Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokinhow
yeah its quite an interesting feature. read on anand that its used by consoles already. and in toms they point out that fraps wont capture the image properly, and that it makes text a little blurry. in warcraft this could be counter productive. so much information is on the screen that small fonts are quite commonly used (by me)Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
good thing i play at 1920x1200. its practically free IQ. i also wonder if this means some games will adjust their menus to prevent the text from being blurry by enabling 2D or something funny like that, or just go with larger fonts.
who compares IQ with a GIF??
Skymtl there are rumours that some 6850 being reviewed have 1120 shaders. can you confirm or debunk this from your samples?
i dont mind using 2 side by side screenshots cause i just open them in new tabs and click between tabs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chumbucket843
but the gif is perfect for people who dont want to do alot of clicking to see the difference. i think mouse over for second image is probably the best, but might not be obvious enough either.
pros and cons to all options.
why is a gif lossless...Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
who said lossless?Quote:
Originally Posted by Motiv
I'm sorry but am I the only one who doesn't see an improvement with this new "Morphological AA" ? In the gif above, I mean to me it looks like the Morphological AA is blurring almost all textures while still showing jaggies. To me it looked like Super-Sampling looked the best IQ wise...What am I missing here?
The benefit of MLAA is the fact that it is done via GPU compute. This means there is very, very little impact upon fraemrates.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCX600RR
so we can use mlaa with 5xxx and geforces with proper applications as well?
I see, that's quite interesting then. So what you're saying is that we can run 8x Morpho AA and compared to running 8x Super Sample AA, the Morpho would give better performance while still looking quite good IQ wise (but not as good as Super-Sampling) ?Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
From my understanding, it should be included with the 10.10 WHQL driver stack. Whether or not is enabled on HD 5000 series is a question mark but considering the similarities between the two architectures, I don't see why they would NOT have it for older cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaktus1907
In the drivers I have, there is no option other than MLAA On or Off via a check-box.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCX600RR
It is a lot faster, doesn't look perfect, but the cost is very low.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCX600RR
take a look to the performance ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by OCX600RR
http://media.bestofmicro.com/D/1/266...gical%20aa.png
i wouldnt use just SC2, since its known to have crappy AA results for both parties. i would review it compared to something where 4xAA isnt so taxing, and check 4x and 8x AA to 4x and 8x MLAA in perf and screenshots. i would expect 8xMLAA to be a little faster than 4xAA, but has quality that looks somewhere in between the 2Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokinhow
atleast someone did the comparison though.
I see, thanks for clarifying that. Seems to be a neat addition from AMD!
personally, i favor highly technical reviews. i like having multiple images and comparing pixel by pixel to see the differences in sampling patterns, weighting, blending, etc. you'll learn so much more that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
ditto. i love a review thats 10 pages about one feature pushed to the test in every which way possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chumbucket843
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/804-...6870-6850.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Chumbucket843
Here you go..Quote:
Originally Posted by kaktus1907
http://translate.google.si/translate...6870-6850.html
Lol When did we start calling Gaussian blur morphological AA?Quote:
Originally Posted by -TYPHOON-
Well, in CG any AA filter like Lanczos, Mitchel-Netravali, Catmull-Rom etc. applies some kind of blur or sharpen to the image.
But i mean in 3d CG, not photoshop. But a blur can be used as an AA filter, that's what all filter do, provide a blur or sharpen effect on edges (or both even).
In the slide, they said, the post effect detect high level of contract and apply some blur to AA.
It's very low cost, and if quality is here, i think this is the ultimate AA. And I think you can add MSAA and MLAA to improve quality.
I feel compelled to add my two cents, especially after wasting six hour of test time and scrapping my entire Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 and CrossFire reviews because of sample 'doping'.
1120-Core "Fixed" Radeon HD 6850 Review Samples Shipped to Media
I'm not going to say it was intentional, but the mere fact that nobody at Sapphire or AMD said anything despite being told of the problem a week before launch is rather alarming.
you got a nice bios for evrybody bought a 68xx, i think this is not a bad thing ...
And the % should be very low.
CF scaling looks great
This is starting to stink big time...Quote:
Originally Posted by Das Capitolin
Its looking like they aren't laser cutting the die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Das Capitolin
http://www.guru3d.com/news/radeon-68...ith-6870-bios/
Lol Hardware.fr ... seriously i like how they comment the things .. too bad not all understand french there ...
That makes six sites reporting that they got 6850 samples with 1120 shaders. Make that seven sites... Hardware Heaven got one too.Quote:
Originally Posted by slaveondope
Sorry, make that eight sites. Tweak Town got it too.
Nope, not done yet... make that nine sites. Inside HW got one as well.
soon were going to need a "i unlocked my 6850" thread
Some info about how the cards got out and about unlocking the shaders
"For those of you excited about the possibility of 'unlocking' your HD 6850, it's not going to happen; the disabling is done at an ASIC level, not BIOS."
http://www.rage3d.com/reviews/video/...view_addendum/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
Twelve sites so far:
- techPowerUp! -> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6850/
- ComputerBase.de -> http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/g...6850-update-2/
- diit.cz -> http://www.diit.cz/clanek/test-radeo...ry/37205/35011
- Extra Hardware -> http://extrahardware.cnews.cz/test-r...otreba-teploty
- Benchmark Reviews -> http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...2388&Itemid=47
- Guru3D -> http://www.guru3d.com/news/radeon-68...ith-6870-bios/
- Hardware Heaven -> http://www.hardwareheaven.com/review...deon-6850.html
- Tweak Town -> http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/360...rd/index2.html
- Inside HW -> http://www.insidehw.com/Reviews/Grap...ds/Page-4.html
- Think Computers -> http://www.thinkcomputers.org/sapphi...card-review/3/
- HT4U -> http://ht4u.net/reviews/2010/amd_rad..._hd_6870_test/
- Rage3D -> http://www.rage3d.com/reviews/video/...view_addendum/
404 Error - Page Not FoundQuote:
Originally Posted by RSC
Sorry mate. All corrected now.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVaLVe
There's a lot of misinformation going around. Here's the way it is:
This issue so far has affected ONE SKU. I say "one" because HIS's cards have always been made by PCPartner - hence their HD 6850's similarity to Sapphire's. Both of these have had problems with the 1120 shader count.
From my understanding, there was a mix-up at the factory level whereby a batch of incorrect cores was mistakenly installed onto the non-reference PCB which PCPartner uses. This happened with early sample cards sent to reviewers and was corrected prior to mass retail production. This comes direct from my sources at Sapphire.
That being said, there was a screw up so who knows; there very well may be some cards that have slipped into the retail channel as well.
Are the BIOSes compatible with other cards? NO. To begin with, the PCPartner cards use a slightly customized BIOS with controls for their non-reference PWM layout and fan controller. Next of all, the cores themselves are laser locked at the production level. I've now tried flashing SIX different cards with the BIOS and none have worked.
There is no controversy here people....even though some are making it out to be one.
yeah it sucks, we were all hoping for unlockable gpus, but this isnt 2003 anymore
The "issue" may have adulterated an unknown number of reviews... And quoting Das Capitolin:Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
"I'm not going to say it was intentional, but the mere fact that nobody at Sapphire or AMD said anything despite being told of the problem a week before launch is rather alarming."
Official AMD Response:Quote:
Originally Posted by RSC
Apparently a small number of the AMD Radeon HD 6850 press samples shipped from AIB partners have a higher-than-expected number of stream processors enabled.
This is because some AIBs used early engineering ASICs intended for board validation on their press samples. The use of these ASICs results in the incorrect number of stream processors. If you have an HD 6850 board sample from an AIB, please test using a utility such as GPU-z to determine the number of active stream processors. If that number is greater than 960, please contact us and we will work to have your board replaced with a production-level sample.
All boards available in the market, as well as AMD-supplied media samples, have production-level GPUs with the correct 960 stream processors.
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...2388&Itemid=47
ammm ya they did...
Great post, thanks for taking the time to share it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL