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Nice, im excited for this GPU.
so much wrong thinking in this thread ... can wait for official everything ....
So it's not useless.
Plus if you read the second article you will see that games such as AvP, Metro, Stalker, Crysis and Napoleon: Total War can easily consume around 1.5GB of VRAM at 2560x1600. With just 4xAA.
Hell, throw GTA in there at any resolution. And Oblivion with extra mods.
And what about the stuff that might come out in a month? 6 months?
Pressmeeting 14okt.
21/22oct for cards.
http://www.sweclockers.com
xt has 1120 shaders and 900mhz core.
Radeon HD 6850 Radeon HD 6870
Kodnamn Barts Pro Barts XT
Teknik 40 nm 40 nm
Streamprocessorer 800 st. 960/1 120 st. (?)
GPU-frekvens 775 MHz 900 MHz
Minnesfrekvens 4 000 MHz 4 200 MHz
Minnesbuss 256-bit 256-bit
Minnesmängd 1 GB GDDR5 1 GB GDDR5
so much conflicting, unreasonable leaks, rumors, darn. 960 SPs Bart, the emergence of multi clock domain in ATi's GPU mArch ? LOL. :rofl:
many techniques to enhance image quality of console ports are brute force and will take up a substantial amount of memory. this could be done by higher resolutions, AA, or changing LOD settings although it might not be a full 2GB for certain games. maybe this is a little off topic but i would expect future game engines to focus on scalability. megatextures in idtech will be able to use main and video memory effectively even with consoles as the main target. tessellation and voxels have also been used for scalability and are a big focus of next gen games.
one of the major points for more VRAM i must make is that if no 4GB card ever comes to market then no software would ever use 4GB of VRAM. the hardware must come first.
that 1120 shader rumor doesnt sound right at all ... even with improved efficiency i dont see that card taking a stand against 480gtx's let alone what nvidia will get out as the 500 series in 2011 ....
That's because AMD decided to rename the card that should be a 6770 to be a 6870, and the 6970's will be the high end single GPU... or at least, that's what the current rumor is. If that Cayman photo is correct, then ~X12000 puts it at 5970 levels for a single GPU :eek:
single gpu that performs like a dual gpu 5970 ... nice :D ... pretty please make those 6970 rumors be true
Interesting info
http://www.chiphell.com/thread-128230-1-1.html
amd eyespeed ????
This was out in english a while ago - link
Well yeah... scrolling down all the way seems to help. :up: :D
http://vgacentral.files.wordpress.co...on_hd_6870.jpg
Oh 3D stereoscopic support? Cool, then I probably won't have to worry about getting an ATI card anymore with lack of 3D support.
EDIT: Integrated HDMI 1.4a with support for stereoscopic 3D ???? If this is true, then it would be funny cuz nvidia lacks this support so far, only works with DVI Dual-link cable so far. 120Hz support over HDMI (afaik 1.4a is the only version that supports that).
Release those goddamn parts already, can't wait to replace this dying GTX 280 that won't even run at stock clocks anymore even, have to underclock to avoid crashing.
The cards from the new series looks quite a lot nicer than 58xx IMO.
good lucking card. Looks shorter... which probably adds more weight to the Barts rumor, *sigh*
Don't be so sure with the "unneeded" claim. Tellings go that this is due to the upcoming Fusion products - their integrated GPUs will have a place in AMD's naming ladder too. The more powerful ones will slot in around the HDx5xx area, and since that's rather crowded names have to be shifted around a bit. I suppose AMD's thinking was, if there's going to be such a shift anyway, and the HDx9xx is hardly used (only for a lucky few, probably < 0.5% of the market), then why not shift up?
I agree it's annoying and confusing, but misleading it doesn't have to be. As always, just look at the price and what you get for it. :) I have no doubt it'll be better than the HD5000 series (although that isn't too hard, considering the mostly, relatively level prices since launch).
I want sex, but I settle for a cayman xt.
Almost as good ;)
@Flopper:
You do realise what that statement implies right?
Pfff now i'm confused... I thought Barts gonna be 67xx series :S
I wonder what the Eyespeed feature is, since it's also mentioned in the poster belove Eyefinity.
Agreed, and I also agree with Particle that there needs to be 2GB vram cards before developers will start make games that utilize that much memory.
But in the current state of gaming, IMO there's no real reason for ATI themselves to bring out a stock chip specified with 2GB of VRAM. Maybe that's something that their partners should be considering.
There's already plenty of 2GB models of Radeon cards out there. And probably by the end of next year there will be games (Crysis 2, Rage) that might actually take advantage of that extra memory.
I think developers aren't too keen on making new games that taxing on memory though because they're all multiplatform titles and consoles have only measly amounts of memory. They could make the PC version use much more, but then it wouldn't be "fair" if the PC version looked much better.
Hilarious topic. :up: As if VRAM mattered.
Wow they keep putting it in slides and people keep falling for it.
This is the same "stereoscopic support" they've claimed for all the 5-series products.. basically their answer to 3D Vision is to claim "support" for a quad-buffer method via third party solutions. They're not going and making any solution that will work automatically with games shipped today.
Good luck with that.
humm I will stick to my asus xonar deluxe,
Some news from OBR
Quote:
Launch date has been moved from 18th to 22nd
Most AIBs don't have the cards ready, some of them are still even working on the box design
Samples should arrive just before the launch
Limited supply of cards
No final spec. have been set yet
HD 6870 should be available in larger quantities in the middle of November, HD 6850 will follow later
It's going to be a paper launch
Nothing else planned till the end of the year
The rest has been postponed till January
thats odd. if the idea idea was these cards would be much more profitable, why delay the crap out their mass quantity launch
To get rid of current stock and then hurting Nvidia by making people wait for GTX 460 killer?
They just need to "launch" cards before Christmas. Doesn't matter if they don't have them, at least they launched them! God I hate stupid naming scheme changes and premature launches. FU AMD. :down:
Eyespeed enables smooth video resize.
Satisfied? :rolleyes:
http://img1.gtimg.com/digi/pics/hv1/...9/41596156.jpg
I guess they will follow Option 2...
Option 3 would be that 54xx/64xx is dumped because we will have fusion which will fill in those gaps. So all retail cards will go one number higher, makes sense in a way.
Option 1 looks so much better :/
Still dont get why they renamed unless Barts really does outperform Cypress by atleast 10% across the board, which is also very unlikely
Lets wait and see what happens
They have to have to go with option 1 , I mean thats what x870 has always been for ATI their best single chip card , if they go with option 2 ...... bleh I dunno what to say.
except for the 1950xtx (i think thats the highest from that series)
2900
9800xt
the 870 thing started with 3000s, 4000s had a 890, and 5000s went back to 870.
i think its mostly about how many skus they expect to make, and even that is changing based on yields and competition too, both which they dont really have much control over
The first thing you describe is usually called scaling and the second is usually called a resolution change. Resizing is usually defined by clicking on the border of an window and dragging it so the window is a different size. If that's the case then it's just a shader customized for the windows aero desktop.
The paper launch part better not be true. I would rather pay msrp, then have to prebuy a card before launch and reviews to actually get one for its real price/performance.
LOL, OBR ? Perhaps some nVidia fanboy who works as a janitor in a big eastern europe computer hardware distributor company somewhere. :rotf:
Eyespeed is a general term for AMD's GPGPU stuff. Either through DirectX/OpenGL or OpenCL.
Through the way the Chinese is written (unlike some people dabbling with google translator :rolleyes: ) I think they do have hardware accelerated DivX/Matroska transcode, not unlike Sandy Bridge. However could be hardware decode, but I thought UVD covered that...
so what are the chinese writting saying about amd eyespeed ???
HD 6870 and HD 6850 performance figures
http://itbbs.pconline.com.cn/diy/11962049.html
3DV跑分 P14872 X6549 how is that compared to the 5750 ??? or even 5870
GTX 460 1GB gets X6500, GTX 470 gets X7700, HD 5850 gets X7300 and HD 5870 gets X9000. That looks bad.
with translation the 6870 does this
3DV run 16270 X 7538
3D06 run sub-19 480
wich doesnt seem bad at all .... the first scores i posted were of the 6850 btw these are from the 6870 ...
if accurate, seems good.
the 6970 will be double the shaders so...
So yea looks like 6870 will be slightly ahead of HD5850 (X7500 vs X7300) which is in-line with my expectations. Now I really hope for some generous launch pricing and HD6870 could be like ATI's 8800GT. Cayman will be interesting for people requiring more GPU power, I would expect HD6950 to be around same as HD5870 performance and HD6970 a bit above GTX 480 performance (maybe 10 ~ 20%). Then dual-gpu version will be alone up there wondering where its competitors are. :confused:
Shame that Fermi's been such a weak response from nvidia, cuz of this we will most likely not see any generous pricing especially for Cayman and Antilles. I can already imagine that HD6970 being priced 450~$499 and dual-gpu at like 699~$749...
I think optimal prices for AMD taking into account manufacturer costs and compared to today's products would be sth like:
6850: $199 (GTX 460 1GB or slightly above performance for 20~$30 less)
6870: $239 (slightly above HD5850 performance for 20~$40 less)
6950: $329 (HD5870 performance for 30~$70 less)
6970: $449 (above GTX480 perf for ~$50 less)
6990: $699
I know this is expensier compared to Cypress ($299 and $399 launch pricing) but they would still look rather aggressively priced compared to the other products in performance comparision and no1 could blame AMD for being too greedy with such prices either as the products are simply that good to warrant the price.
The test system of the charts you show are i7 965 @3.87 ghz, that is why you have much higher results.
The vantage preview of the HD6800 was using an i7 @ 2.93ghz resulted in X6549 for the HD6850 and X7538 for the HD6870
Here are results from a i7 975 @ 3.33 (stock)
http://i56.tinypic.com/sbm2y0.jpg
Engineering samples most likely don't warrant instant change to new logo stickers, the card might not even come with that fan design.
Thats using ancient drivers and CPU has little effect in Vantage extreme.
With more recent drivers, the card 5870 scores around 9 thousand.
http://www.fudzilla.com/reviews/item...dition?start=7
3dmark 06 though is crazy effected.
Already makin judgement without knowing the price first ? Power consumption and noise ? LOL :ROTF:
The resegmenting will be confusing & rather misleading, if there is any renaming then it will suck no doubt, but if HD 6870 & HD 6850 (?) are priced at US$ 229 & US$ 179 at launch and decreasing as time goes with supply abundance, i think MANY peep will praise these little mighty value cards.
Courtesy of B3D poster :
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1480677&postcount=2866
Not bad, not bad at all IF Bart really is a 960 SP chip. :up:Code:OCClub TechGage1 "2 Xbit PConline
i7-920 i7-975 " " i7-940
@3.00+ @3.33 " " @2.93
9.9 9.10 10.3 10.7 ???
5870: 8246 8213 9041 8870
5850: 6590 6566
5770: 4311
480: 9237 9828
470: 7844
6870: 7538
6850: 6549
If the new naming scheme is true, AMD obviously renamed the lineup to justify higher pricing. A 6770 for 249 would be hard to justify to the public a 6870 at that price sounds like a good deal. Pricing is going to be jacked up substantially if AMD is going to name its 6870 to 6970.
This is deceptive marketing. Considering the price of the 5770 and the 4770, the 6870(6770) is going to be one of the worst generations ever, as their price increase was the most expensive ever, but at the same time, the least amount of improvement(the 5770 was a lot closre to the 4870, the 4770 beat the 3870).
We might not know pricing, but we all know that AMD is going to charge more than 200 dollar pricing for these cards, even the 6850. I lost confidence in AMD pricing after they charged 239 dollars for the 5830 and will lose even more faith if the naming scheme is true which seems certain at this point.
I think this generation is going to be pretty cheap IMHO,market is saturated with DX11 cards at this point and there is plenty of competition.
Cypress is smaller then Fermi ,but still quite large compared to rv770 ,I think barts will be about the size of rv770 or a bit smaller. AMD knows they will need to compete on perf/$ basis ,it will be hard to do with cypress which is too large and juniper which is too underpowered. I am still not convinced about the naming,but honestly it doesn't matter to me.
LOL, Bart will be a great x7xx chip if 32 nm process wasn't canned, but :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: happens, and there's just so much you can do on the same process. Increasing absolute performance while increasing performance/$, performance/die area, and performance/watt aka overall efficiency at the same time, increasing product value for costumer somewhat (a US$ 229 HD 6870 Bart that's faster than 299 US$ HD 5850 of today is indeed giving more value for costumers, right ?) while making good progress for the company's bottomline altogether, all achieved using the same TSMC's troubled 40 nm process, and you guys already shooting so much flak to AMD ?? :rofl:
Considering with current drivers Cypress XT can do just shy of 10k GPU score @ 1ghz in Vantage extreme ( with a highly clocked i7 ) x7000 total isn't too great of a showing if that is infact the 6870. That does place it in 5850/470 territory. Now the new gpus likely do better with DX11 content ( still not relavent yet in my opinion but it will be eventually ) but current DX9/10 performance is what most will care about. I could care less about naming schemes but 6870 as the mid range part would be a bit of a marketing fail as far as im concerned.
The DX11 varriant of 3Dmark should make for a more interesting comparsion once it arrives.
ooh nice so now AMD have some video playback features .... SWEET that was one thing lots of nvidia users like the better video playback this should negate that now.
i'll tell you why AMD is getting flak.
their shader architecture has not changed much in 3 years. they barely had any innovations in evergreen, and it was only 50% faster than last gen. this is not an exciting upgrade for most even with dx11.
TSMC does not have a troubled 40nm process any longer. the blame game is very fun but failures are not always caused by uncontrollable events aka excuses. TSMC does a good job for the most part. most of the people who criticize them dont know what they are talking about. furthermore, there is a lot you can do on an existing process. AMD can improve their architecture and physical design on 40nm by a nice margin.
faster gpu's are demanded by consumers. someone must supply this good. in this case most are expecting AMD to deliver due to nvidia's hot mess on a pcie slot.
per $ is a choice made by a company, per mm2 is what generally drives profit margins. amd already has great perf per mm2, so why would they be making less money than nvidia per card todays pricing? comparing the size of 200$ cards, amd is much smaller and perf differences are close enough. its safe to assume they already are doing great with current $ per mm2 or perf/$.
I am not sure what you are trying to say.If Barts performs as good as GF104 ,do you expect it to cost more then GF104 ? I am not saying it is not possible,but not quite sure AMD brand can demand a premium over NV brand,they are getting closer,but not quite there. Perf/mm2 is irrelevant from consumer's point of view.
Their shader arch is still yielding added performance with unit expansion, whether that's considered sufficient enough or not that's certainly a relative, debatable thing for sure. I think AMD is just trying to best nVidia's GT200 with their Evergreen gen, DX 11 is basically just a checker mark feature for this generation. Evergreen is relatively cheap to make compared to nVidia's current DX 11 generation, while absolutely faster and more advanced compared to nVidia's past generation.
For all its achievement, AMD Graphic division is certainly still lightweight compared to nVidia sizewise & resourcewise, for them being able to eventually bypassing nVidia after R600 debacle, that's quite an achievement in itself. Exciting or not, Evergreen did and does dominate DX 11 scenery for the past year (Fermi late entrance is certainly helpful), Northern Islands on 40 nm is basically a contingency product out of TSMC canceled 32 nm process, which IMHO affected AMD worse compared to its competitor (fact that AMD is always in front in using new process node and they've been very good in hitting their R&D timeline target lately).
With NI, they should and IMHO will still give added value to the costumers, how much and how far, that's a relative thing to judge, but one thing for sure, G92 and its nth incarnates are making tons & tons of money for nVidia, i don't think AMD's decision to resegmenting its new gen graphic cards, reevaluating & reworking the marketing strategy, can be deemed as a totally bad thing and harmful to the customers. Yes, it will cause some confusion, and some can consider this as a misleading marketing tactic, but i think the bottomline is giving more absolute value to the customer while being profitable in the process, that's all that matter. Anything else is just forum noise from geeks & nerds, green and red rose colored notwithstanding.
Though, if AMD dares to rebrand RV 840 from HD 5770 to HD 6770, they WILL get some flak from me personally, no doubt about that.
How much margin can be deemed nice enough so it won't be called a failure ? Perhaps TSMC 40 nm process is much better that what was available in the past, but troubled isn't just related to how well a process node is yielding. i certainly haven't seen the kinda competitive drive like in 55 nm old days, even after GF 104 is introduced that offers a tremendous value and give such a good fit against Cypress, AMD decided to rather enjoy maximal profit rather than getting a bit agressive pricewise to gain more marketshare.
That signals supply constrained situation, and considering Cypress decent yield, basically AMD doesn't get much enough 40 nm wafers from TSMC to optimize their profit while maximizing the marketshare as well like what RV 770 has done for them in the past. That shows a trouble for a process that should be maturing by now and costing much less if its really trouble free.
Northern Islands seems to be a reengineering of AMD graphic mArch, if it really delivers the added efficiency as leaked, while costing less to the customers for the same or even more performance, i think it's a job well done and we should be grateful as customers. Designing graphic chip isn't an easy job, Fermi designers can attest to that statement, hehehe. :D
And i think they WILL deliver, whether the amount is good enough or in the way that satisfy people egos, that's really a matter of personal judgement.
Cypress is great against GF 100, but aggressively priced GF 104 is really a thorn on AMD's side. Yes Cypress is still (debatable) more profitable even compared to GF 104, but the margin is much thinner if AMD decides to get aggressive against GF 104 marketshare offensive from nVidia, matching the price toe to toe and fighting for added marketshare.
Using a 220-240 mm^2 (if the 960 SP rumor is true) Bart will certainly matches GF 104 better from AMD's bottomline perspective compared to using a 334^2 mm Cypress, while still being supply constrained by TSMC. With its deep pocket, nVidia can be aggressive and accept thinner margin or slight loss for maintaining strategic marketshare position.
A small efficient yet good performing Bart and Northern Islands family overall will certainly give AMD more flexibility in their strategy for optimising both profit and marketshare against current nVidia's offerings.
LOL, what a long post to make. :ROTF:
i fully agree that it will give them more flexibility. but i think people are a little too negative about the current price to perf of cypress. since the chip is only a portion of the cards cost, while the rest is all a cost (board, vrm, ram, box and shipping), i think that a 10% price drop could mean 30% less profit, but might not get anywhere near 30% more sales. the consumer side of things only see a few little factors and its hard to base why just from those.
just to point out, i HATE the current price to perf ratio. for the last year is was WORSE than 4000s/200s as long as you were not playing any dx11 games. 180$ for my 4850xfire, and even in the next few months it seems like 180$ still wont bring any noticeable difference (except for power consumption)
there are two elements to a chip's cost. manufacturing is extensively talked about but dont forget that R&D expenses are ~$900 million per year for nvidia and i would assume ATi would be in that range. this is ~30% of nvidia's revenue and ~60% is manufacturing. the rest is business administration and marketing.
I hope the renaming rumors aren't true. ATI's been relatively good these last few years about not arbitrarily misleading customers through names. One of the "ethical" advantages they've had over Nvidia. Seems kind of rash to just start going down that slippery slope.
lots of smoke being blown here based on RUMORS
RUMORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
the only thing we KNOW IMO is that naming something 6870 when it is worse than 5870 is a STUPID IDEA. so why expect them to do it.