AC to plateHX Chiller Conversion...56K Warning!

NASA......we have lift off! http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...s/thumbsup.gif

Finally have 99% of the stuff in-house. Picked up the AC unit today and started working on it. Took a lot of pix and 1 video in hopes of helping those that are timid about de-casing an AC for a ghetto chiller. So, experienced folks--please bear with me on the initial pix....http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...s/thumbsup.gif

The main intent in this project is simply to convert a standard 5K btu AC into a plateHX chiller that can be controlled by the onboard AC controller or sent sub-zero at the flick of a switch. Wish me luck! (http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...lies/rofl2.gif)

The AC is in-house:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

Ok, easiest step--yeah, just remove the shipping block:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg


In order to remove the front panel/grill remove the window screen slide attachments on both sides:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg


remove this screw:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

Go ahead and pull the filter and remove this screw on the other side:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

Next you will need to sort out the plastic tabs holding the cover/grill on. Not a big deal. If you don't want/need the cover....then don't be afraid to break the tabs.

Once the cover was lose:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

I needed to remove the 4 screws holding the control board:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

Takes just a few minutes:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg


Next, this AC is not a slide-out, so the entire housing cover needs to be removed. 10 screws total...not a big deal:

3 screws on this side:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

4 out of 6 screws on the rear (the bottom 2 hold the condenser):

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

2 screws on the top:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

and 1 screw on the other side:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

The top will now slide right off and here ya go:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

Next is getting the evap fan out of there. The styrofoam housing is split--it's 2 pieces....a top and bottom:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg


You will have to pay attention and check your particular unit, but the 2 that I have dealt with were basically the same. Foam on the side:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

I just "loosened" half of the small piece and sliced the long piece:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

If you are going to make a ghetto chiller then taking care of the styrofoam is not a concern. However, I will be keeping and using it, so I need to take care of it. :up:

Once free, the top will slide right out:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

In my limited experience, the evap fan has been held on with a simple nut/washer setup:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

Just get the right size wrench, mount it and spin the fan and the nut will come right off.

In order to get the fan out, you're going to need to unscrew the evap:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

and slide it out just a bit.

Once the fan is out you'll be left with the shaft and the bottom styrofoam will be very easy to remove:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg


While researching around I found a very cool common sense tip for removing the fan shaft---let the motor do the work! DuH! http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...milies/doh.gif

Here's a 4:59 min video of the entire shaft removal process:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...aftRemoval.jpg

Took a file with the fan motor running and cleaned up the little nipple left over:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg


End of ghetto mod assistance.....http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...es/biggrin.gif

My first question is: What is this gooey stuff? Just anti-vibration....? This unit only had what is seen in the pic below. My ghetto chiller had a whole bunch of this stuff:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

The electrical diagram shows both a "Room temp sensor" and a "Room tube sensor". I am assuming that this thing is the room temp sensor...? :

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg


Compressor sticker:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg


Condenser connections:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg


Evap connections:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

Fan motor sticker. Not really relevent, but here anyway:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ion7-2--09.jpg


I am going to need to study this unit a bit in order to determine where to use the piercing valve. I want to do as little brazing as possible in order to get this unit converted to the plate HX.

The only thing I'm waiting on now is the N2 reg. But I still have to deal with the piercing and recovery. Hopefully, the reg will be here very soon.

A little progress made today.....http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...s/thumbsup.gif

I setup and did the recovery. Best I can tell....things went well. http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...s/rolleyes.gif We'll see when I go to get the refrigerant back out of the tank! http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...es/biggrin.gif

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ress-7-23-.jpg

I put the piercing valve on the high-side where it's still vapor. http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ilies/poke.gif

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ringEtc049.jpg

I put a sight-glass on the recovery unit. Confused me for a bit, because I didn't see any liquid. Finally I realized that I was recovering vapor. Everything behaved normally otherwise. Like I would actually know what "normally" is.....http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ilies/rotf.gif But, honestly everything with the gauges made sense...http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...s/thumbsup.gif

I managed to get the wiring and control box out of the way and flipped back over the condenser:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ringEtc046.jpg

So, I went ahead and removed the evap:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ress-7-23-.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...gress-7--1.jpg

While I was still feeling spunky, I went ahead and removed the piercing hole:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ress-7-23-.jpg


Cut back the tubing where the piercing hole was and taped everything off:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ress-7-23-.jpg


Now I'm still waiting on the N2 reg. Going to start getting pissed if the guy doesn't have it here today or tomorrow. http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...s/thumbsup.gif Can't do any purging until I have a reg to work with. I could possibly try to set a CO2 tank at a slow leak, but I would rather have the reg.

So, right now I'm at a holding point. Not sure what more I can do until I'm setup to purge....http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3.../thumbdown.gif

Woot! I was wondering what was going on with this. Nice work as always brother!!

Down here on Florida ATM. Lets's see what ou get done with the long weekend.:p:

Hey, Bro! Enjoy the trip! :up: I'm only going to get so much accomplished. The N2 reg did not show yet. I've rigged up a way to purge with C02 for now. Getting the pipe work laid out and brazed atm. I may just do the pipe work, or I may go ahead and braze it all up and then pull a vacuum to see if I have any major leaks. Not sure right now, just kinda stumbling along! :p: Can't pressure test until the N2 reg gets here.....:shakes: I could possibly, but I'll have to look up whether or not Mineral oil / AB absorbs the C02....if it does--then I'm stuck. :down: We'll see.....got my hands full enough atm.....:D

Enjoy Your trip, man! :up:

Whoa, most hardcore thing I've ever seen.

Nicely and PROPERLY done!
*tips hat*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nascasho

Whoa, most hardcore thing I've ever seen.

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:D Thanx! 1) check out my other projects in my sig and 2) keep surfing the chilled and phase forums.....I'm just a beginner here....it get's a whole lot more hardcore than this! :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

Nicely and PROPERLY done!
*tips hat*

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Thanx, Nol! :up: Everyone started back-peddling as soon as I started actually buying stuff, so it looks like I'm on my own here. :down: But it is reassuring to have someone with experience chime in with some positive words! :up: Thank You!

Ok, more progress made.....http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...s/thumbsup.gif


Got the pipe work sorted out and brazed up the plate HX:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...rk-7-23-09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...rk-7-23-09.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...rk-7-23-09.jpg

I'm not over-joyed with the stainless to copper brazing. I think they will be Ok, but I will have to wait for the pressure test. http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...s/thumbsup.gif Certainly not the prettiest joints. http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ies/tongue.gif

So, I carried on with the pipe work:


http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...rk-7-23-09.jpg




http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...rk-7-23-09.jpg




http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...rk-7-23-09.jpg




http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...rk-7-23-09.jpg



Started pulling a vacuum since I cannot currently pressure test. Think I have a leak, but it's really hard to tell what's going on. So, I'm checking out different things with the gauges/pump/etc. Really wish I had picked up some Hose-end ball-valves!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...rk-7-23-09.jpg



Welcome to My Nightmare: http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...es/shocked.gif

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...rk-7-23-09.jpg

Ok, looks like I've got it holding a vacuum. Yes, it's only been ~20 minutes and I know: Stick my thumb in my nose and just wait! Got it! Check! http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ies/tongue.gif


Anyway, seemed like there was something wonky going on: It would hold a vacuum for a few minutes and then start increasing fairly rapidly, but pretty much stop at around 5-10psi vacuum. Just didn't seem right the way it was behaving. I tried tightening the hose fittings. Realized at one point that I had the damn things on backwards! http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...lies/rofl2.gif The valve pin pushers were up at the manifold. Could swear I checked that a few days ago. :shakes: So, I got that straightened out, but it was still acting strangely. I thought maybe it had something to do with either the hoses or the vacuum pump. So, I pulled another vacuum, closed the manifold valves, removed the vacuum hose and capped the manifold off with an access valve cap, opened the manifold valves again.....and it's been holding a vacuum for ~30 mintues now.... http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...s/thumbsup.gif


Capped off:
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...um-7-23-09.jpg


So, now it's wait time.......http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ilies/clap.gif

Hey, I'm just wondering what is the black bottle in this image:
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...rk-7-23-09.jpg

As well as what pressure testing setup will you be using ?

Those joints don't look proper at the HX.
You need to make sure the steels clean, the flux is applied heavily enough, and the copper and steel are both hot enough. Looks like you melted the rods on.

^^ Yup. HX joints don't look correct.

On your HX joints, you did heat the fittings and then apply the braze, you did just get the brazing liquid and put it on there.

I dosent look like you had the fittings hot enough. They should be a dull to bright cherry red before you put the braze rod to them. The fittings should be hot enough to melt the braze, it should not be the flame that melts it.

When pressure testing with vaccum you only are using 14.7psi to test with. Vaccum testing should not take the place of pressure testing.

You also need a micron gauge to do the vacuum correctly. Not a must have but pretty close IMO.

Looks pretty good so far.

I did not know that you went to the chiller section, I dont usually cruise the wet side.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yngndrw

Hey, I'm just wondering what is the black bottle in this image:
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...rk-7-23-09.jpg

As well as what pressure testing setup will you be using ?

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That's a 9oz C02 paintball bottle/tank. Thought I needed it to block that port, but have realized that I do not if I open both red-handle ball valves 100% and just tweak the C02 with the main valve.

I will be using N2, but still waiting on the reg. Filed a dispute with paypal earlier today. :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

Those joints don't look proper at the HX.
You need to make sure the steels clean, the flux is applied heavily enough, and the copper and steel are both hot enough. Looks like you melted the rods on.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

^^ Yup. HX joints don't look correct.

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I agree that it doesn't look correct on the outside. :up: It looks like a cold braze. :yepp: Not being argumentative here, so please don't take it that way. This is just FYI. :up: I seem to be a bit of a "Blobber". I add more than is absolutely necessary. I like the joints to look what? "Full and complete"? I don't know exactly how to say it. The fittings where definitely hot and I think the "inside" of the joints are pretty good actually, but I did start running into problems later as I was trying to "form" the "cap". However, after 10.5 housr it does appear that I've lost 1 inch of vacuum. So, I have to assume it's a leak in the AC fittings. First guess--the HX.

Also, I cleaned those HX joints up with a wire brush and a couple of needle files, so I could get a better look at them. But, Yes, we all agree that they don't look right. :up: Guess I'll break out the mapp/oxy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ultralo1

On your HX joints, you did heat the fittings and then apply the braze, you did just get the brazing liquid and put it on there.

I dosent look like you had the fittings hot enough. They should be a dull to bright cherry red before you put the braze rod to them. The fittings should be hot enough to melt the braze, it should not be the flame that melts it.

When pressure testing with vaccum you only are using 14.7psi to test with. Vaccum testing should not take the place of pressure testing.

You also need a micron gauge to do the vacuum correctly. Not a must have but pretty close IMO.

Looks pretty good so far.

I did not know that you went to the chiller section, I dont usually cruise the wet side.

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As above, I think the fittings were hot enough during the initial braze, but the HX was sucking the heat while I was trying to "form the cap".

I'm still waiting on my N2 reg to arrive. Without it--I can't pressure test. So, that's the only reason that I am doing a vacuum test--trying to make progress with what I have atm. If I could currently pressure test--I would. It would help me pin-point a leak. But I can't, so vacuuming was an option. Yes, I will be pressure testing. :up:

Yes, I understand the value of pressure testing v. pulling a vacuum. And I would definitely like to have a supco vg64, but they are ~$200. I was hoping to get past this project before investing--considering all the other money that I've already spent. But I may go ahead and pick one up. We'll see.....:up: Right now, it looks like I need to purchase another N2 reg....:shakes:



I'll work on those 2 joints and see if I can't improve them......:up: Thanx Everybody! :up:

Quote:

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As above, I think the fittings were hot enough during the initial braze, but the HX was sucking the heat while I was trying to "form the cap".

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The HX needs to be hot enough as well ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

The HX needs to be hot enough as well ;)

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Not sure what You mean....:shrug: Do I need to pick up a camping stove? And use that to "preheat" along with the torch?

The main trick for copper/steel, is high contact between the two. Placing heat directly on the Steel will often times burn it. So heat has to be transferred, and towards the end maybe a little direct flame at the joint. The steel should be red hot, just the same as copper to copper brazes, the torch shouldn't melt the rod.

To add to what NOL is saying basically you should make sure the steel is red hot once that is achieved continue to heat the copper once both are hot enough remove the flame from both and add your brazing alloy it melts very quickly when done this way so make sure to cover those joints nicely if you keep applying heat you will just melt away all the brazing material you just built up its tricky but you will get the hang of it.

The same applies for brass, but you can more readily heat it over steel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

The main trick for copper/steel, is high contact between the two. Placing heat directly on the Steel will often times burn it. So heat has to be transferred, and towards the end maybe a little direct flame at the joint. The steel should be red hot, just the same as copper to copper brazes, the torch shouldn't melt the rod.

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Ok, I understand that the torch shouldn't melt the rod....just like soldering and sweating. :up: However, trying to transfer the heat via the copper is a trick I'm not sure I can master....:p: The stainless was red hot. I think that the inside of the braze is a lot better than the outside, but there's no way to be sure one way or the other. The main problem came in while trying to form the "cap". I think maybe the purging gas was cooling things just enough to cause problems. Maybe a bit too much gas. Not really sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozzfest05

To add to what NOL is saying basically you should make sure the steel is red hot once that is achieved continue to heat the copper once both are hot enough remove the flame from both and add your brazing alloy it melts very quickly when done this way so make sure to cover those joints nicely if you keep applying heat you will just melt away all the brazing material you just built up its tricky but you will get the hang of it.

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See? This is were I get lost. It's not supposed to be orange, but I cannot get these 15% rods to melt otherwise. So, I am doing something wrong. Maybe just need a bit more patience? Keep heating even after I think it's ready? I try to apply the rod opposite of the flame--in that space where there really is little or no flame. I've got a pretty busy week ahead, so maybe instead of working on the HX I'll just take a little time and try to sort some things out--copper-to-copper--with the brazing. What I've been doing probably isn't as bad as it may sound, but I don't think it's quite ideal either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

The same applies for brass, but you can more readily heat it over steel.

---

:up:


I picked up a propane stove from wally-world. I know people use them for phase evaps....is there any reason why I should not use it on the HX? Set it right on it, get things cooking well and braze it up....:shrug: Propane for the stove and either mapp or mapp/oxy for the torch....

15%?
Won't do steel.
You need to be using around 45% and separate flux.
Don't throw it on the stove though, last thing you want to do is mess up the brazed plates.

Apologies, You're right--it is 45% stay-silv and the black paste flux. The 15% is for the copper to copper, no flux. :up:

I've been re-watching some online brazing videos. I think I understand a bit better. I'll have to do some work on it when I get a chance, so progress may get a bit slow for a few days...:up:

15% dosent work on steel. You have to have either 45% or 56%. Some come as flux coated rods or bare wire with seperate flux.

The braze only goes where ther is heat and flux. If you did not flux the outside of the female fitting then there will not be any adhesion there.

PS. I have never used black paste flux. If you are using Harris brazing products (stay silv) then you need to be using thier white brazing flux. I have seen people get brazing flux and soldering flux mixed up. I know you did not but I just had to through that in there

Hang on, what's this about 15% not working on steel ?

I've used plain copper-phosphorus rods with no flux before on a steel-brass joint and it bonded perfectly well.

Naja002: Good luck on your PayPal dispute.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ultralo1

15% dosent work on steel. You have to have either 45% or 56%. Some come as flux coated rods or bare wire with seperate flux.

The braze only goes where ther is heat and flux. If you did not flux the outside of the female fitting then there will not be any adhesion there.

PS. I have never used black paste flux. If you are using Harris brazing products (stay silv) then you need to be using thier white brazing flux. I have seen people get brazing flux and soldering flux mixed up. I know you did not but I just had to through that in there

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I don't really like the Black flux. It's kind of a dried paste and applies in clumps...if that makes sense. But it's what I bought, so it's what I 've got for now. Here's a link: STAY-SILV Black Flux

I've never used any kind of flux like this before. Not sure if it's old, or is the way it's supposed to be or what....:shrug: May just need a good mixing. Maybe the more "liquid" portion has settled to the bottom. I don't know.....:shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yngndrw

http://www.under-the-ice.com/product_info.php?cPath=36&products_id=94

Naja002: Good luck on your PayPal dispute.

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Thanx. :up: It finally arrived today. :up: So, I've closed the dispute. Was going to escalate it at 9pm if the guy had not given me the tracking number. It was shipped UPS, so what's the problem with providing the tracking number? And "shipped" meaning: Yeah, when he got around to it. :down:



Anyway, I guess it's a Happy Day! :p: Ordered the Supco VG64--$151 shipped. Waiting to hear back from John at Frosty-freeze for some odds-n-ends and the N2 regulator finally arrived. So, of course, I had to move to the pressure test! :up: It's been holding just over 250psi for a couple of hours now. The gauge needle has not moved on the High-side. The Low-side is just calling me names: :D


http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...est-7-6-09.jpg


I won't be able to do anything with it until at least tomorrow, so it will sit overnight and we'll see what happens.


Question: If this thing holds this pressure....Do I really need to mess with the HX joints? As said before--I genuinely believe that the inside of the joints are strong and solid regardless of how the "caps" look.....

There should not be a "inside of the braze" or "outside". When both base metals are at the correct temperature it should take ~1-2 seconds to touch the rod and it will flow. The trick is to get dis-simmiliar metals both to the correct brazing temp @ the same time.

None of the brazes on the HX look correct.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wdrzal

There should not be a "inside of the braze" or "outside". When both base metals are at the correct temperature it should take ~1-2 seconds to touch the rod and it will flow. The trick is to get dis-simmiliar metals both to the correct brazing temp @ the same time.

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Thanx, Walt. :up: I understand. It's just going to take some practice for me to get this sorted out for myself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Naja002

Do I need to "fix" these joints that technically are not broken?

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Thats up to you. Use your judgement. Youve earned the right by comming this far on your own.

Give the HX a little wiggle and see if any of the joints crack. Don't do this with the system pressurized of course. Biggest problem will be the vibrations from the compressor, hopefully you have a full metal bond.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ultralo1

Thats up to you. Use your judgement. Youve earned the right by comming this far on your own.

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:up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

Give the HX a little wiggle and see if any of the joints crack. Don't do this with the system pressurized of course. Biggest problem will be the vibrations from the compressor, hopefully you have a full metal bond.

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Ok, I just got done depressurizing it, wiggling it around really well, and repressurizing it. I won't be doing anything on it until tomorrow or maybe this weekend, so it's going to sit pressurized (250psi) unless it leaks. :up:

I think I will work on the caps regardless though....:up:

Ok, some progress made http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...s/thumbsup.gif

I left the unit after the "wiggling" above @ 250psi. It held the pressure for ~24hrs. I depressurized it and set it up to work on the HX joints. I can say that mapp/oxy seems much hotter then just mapp. http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ilies/yepp.gif

The 3/8" is still a blob, but it's in better shape:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...on-7-11-09.jpg

The 1/4" line:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...on-7-11-09.jpg



I pressurized it back up to 250psi and it held for another 36hrs.


So, I depressurized the system and started to pull a vacuum. 1st round is down just below 500 microns:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...n--7-11-09.jpg


Just re-pressurized it to 50psi w/ N2, depressurized it down below 5psi and started round 2 on evacing the system. My plan is to go below 500 microns again, repressurize, and pull a 3rd vac that I may let run overnight. Either way, I plan on going further below on the 3rd vac. I need to find a thread where Walt breaks it down. I'll do that now.....http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...s/thumbsup.gif

Ya,whats up with the 3/8 in the top picture??????.........The tube is split open on the bend and that looks like it split from internal pressure ??? The tube also looks riffled on the inside like condenser or evaporator tube.

That's from the flaring tool. I use it to hold the pipe when I swag and it scars the pipes up. Something I was unaware of prior to getting into this, but have read mentioned at least once. It's been there all along. :up: The end of that curved pipe--opposite the HX--is swagged.


Here's another angle from the first set of fullsized shots: Pic

The tube still looks split in the orginal picture ???................ why can't I post a pic from "my pictures" any more ? used to be able to click browse ,then click the picture............Now it asking for a URL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wdrzal

The tube still looks split in the orginal picture ???................

---

I agree, but it's not. It holds 250psi and down to 200 microns. It's a macro shot....if that were a penny--you'd be able to see Lincoln's nose hairs.....:p: Plus it's semi-blurry and not the focus of the picture. It looks split in the picture, but it's not. It's just the picture....:up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wdrzal

why can't I post a pic from "my pictures" any more ? used to be able to click browse ,then click the picture............Now it asking for a URL.

---

Not sure. I use photobucket and upload to there first. My best guess is that you now have to create an XS album in usercp and upload there...then get the url from there. (or use photobucket or some other photo-hosting site).



I've moved the vacuum guage to the High-side access valve (was on the Hide-side of the manifold). It now shows it's holding a vacuum, whereas before it sure appeared that I was losing some or most of the vacuum....a leak. Pretty wonky the way it was behaving. I'm going to get though this and see about getting some short dedicated hoses for vacuuming. :up:


I've accomplished a few other things....haven't taken pix yet, but I will. Also, trying to sort out 1 or 2 other non-hvac related things. :up:

This is a very interesting project.
I hope I am not too annoying with too many questions.
What is the Significance of 56K warning in the title?
Someone suggested to me that there is a solder suitable for SS.
Mfg: Harris Brand Name: Stay Silver 15 and Stay Silver Flux. Does anyone have any experience with this?
I guess brazing is preferred to solder?
Can anyone comment on the concerns relating to the selection of a brazed plate HX?
The main concern may be that you have the same or better heat transfer.
Can you have too much heat transfer?
The brazed plate HX seems to be much smaller in volume, is this a concern?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by art_h

This is a very interesting project.
I hope I am not too annoying with too many questions.
What is the Significance of 56K warning in the title?

Warns people with a slow internet connection that there's a heavy download (Pix)

Someone suggested to me that there is a solder suitable for SS.

My understanding is that "solder" will not handle the pressures involved

Mfg: Harris Brand Name: Stay Silver 15 and Stay Silver Flux. Does anyone have any experience with this?

15% is for copper-to-copper. 45% or above is for mixed metals

I guess brazing is preferred to solder?

Yes

Can anyone comment on the concerns relating to the selection of a brazed plate HX?

Depends on what you want to do/accomplish. My understanding is that the 10 plateHX will handle most to all of what we generally do here.

The main concern may be that you have the same or better heat transfer.
Can you have too much heat transfer?

If the HVAC system cannot handle the load...then, Yes.

The brazed plate HX seems to be much smaller in volume, is this a concern?

No. They are designed for what they do. You just have to spec out what you need.

---

Answered inside quote....:up:

I have heard that a major problem encountered with brazing, especially SS is that the materials oxidize and prevent good wetting of the brazing rod. I have also heard that purging the inside of the system with Nitrogen (N2) prevents this oxidation from the inside.
Is this a common practice?
Is there a good way of flooding the joint with nitrogen from the outside?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by art_h

I have heard that a major problem encountered with brazing, especially SS is that the materials oxidize and prevent good wetting of the brazing rod. I have also heard that purging the inside of the system with Nitrogen (N2) prevents this oxidation from the inside.
Is this a common practice?

Yes


Is there a good way of flooding the joint with nitrogen from the outside?

first 2 pix, post 11

---

Answered inside quote.....

Need some help:

The system holds 250psi N2...no problem. But it will not hold a vacuum.

What are the odds that there is a leak in the AC system?

What are the odds that it's all 5 hoses?

What are the odds that this new Supco VG64 leaks?

I've tried every combination that I can think of. :up: Vacuum pump directly to the low-side/vacuum gauge on the high-side, visa versa, through the manifold--low-side only, high-side only, both, valves open, valves closed, vacuum gauge directly to the pump with different hoses and the list goes on. I've spent a lot of hours on this so far.....:shakes:

I've recently pulled a vac with the compressor running....gauge on the low-side I can get a vac down to <200 microns and it will hold, but once I turn the compressor off....it starts climbing again. Yes, it's the "suction" side, I know...:shakes:

I have let it evac short-term and for hours. What's wrong with this picture? :shrug:


I am checking it now with just the manifold gauges. I think it will hold, but we all know how high of a vac that is--not good enough. The only true common denominators are the AC unit and the Supco VG64.....otherwise it's all 5 hoses.

EDIT: Ok, from what I'm reading---it's the hoses. :shakes:

It is not unusual for the vacumm to rise when you valve off the vacuum pump. This is because of the oil in the comp. The oil absorbs the refirgerant. When under vacuum the refrigerant is able to come out of solution and enter the system that is under vacuum, thus raising the micron reading.

Now you are making me get my "refrigeration Geek" on. It would take months of vacuum and heat to get all the refrigerant out of the oil. Since the vacuum only is present at the top most layer of the oil, the refrigerant trapped in the oil at the bottom layer has to work its way to the top layer by diffusion. It migrates very slowly. Some ways to help this along is to agitate the oil mix, shake the comp, bang on it with rubber mallet, etc... "geek" off.

In a system that has had refrigerant in it before, take the vacuum down to less than 200 microns. Valve off the vacuum pump. Wait to see what the micron reading is after 20 minutes. If it is 400 microns or below you are good to go. If it is above 400 then vacuum somemore.

Understood and Thank You. But that's the problem: the lowest I've been able to maintain is ~1100 microns from 500 or below. That's too much....from what I've been reading. It shoots straight up to 5000, 6000 microns. Generally won't go over 10,000. And this is in a matter of a few minutes (2-4min).

I've tried everything I can think of to isolated the source of the leak. From what I have been reading--it's most likely these hoses. That would actually make the most sense too from what I have experienced.

It will hold a full vacuum according to the manifold gauges, but when I take it down low via the Supco VG64--it won't.

I really don't need to charge it yet. So, I think I am just going to get it full of N2 and take a break from this vacuuming. I've got other stuff to work on first.

But I will have to get back to this, so I would appreciate opinions on what the likelihood is: Unit, gauge, hoses.....

I think I can swing a quick swap-over for the charge--I was looking and thinking about that while I was fighting with this stuff.

What a PITA! :p:

Hunting vacuum leaks is systematic exclusion.
Pull the hose off the manifold and test each one induvidially. One end on the vac pump the other end has the vac gauge
If they pass, install one hose on to the manifold center fitting, capp off the other two ports. Pull vacuum on the manifold.
If it holds, then open each side individually, let it pull vacuum then valve off the pump to see if the leak is in that side.

You have just tested the hoses and manifold. Again it is sytematic exclusion.

Ok, I've already done a lot of what you describe, but I will redo it more systematically as you describe. One problem: the vacuum pump definitely seems to allow air into the setup as soon as it's turned off. I used numerous methods to "isolate" or remove it when preparing to try to hold a vacuum. So, the lack of holding a vacuum described above applies without the vacuum pump. With it---it always loses vacuum when turn off. Didn't seem right, and I guess it's not?

I looked back at the other post to see what kind of Vac pump you have. I dont think it has a built in valve to valve off the vacuum. You will need to install an in line valve between the vac pump and the hose. like this
http://www.yellowjacket.com/HVACRPro...&l=4&c=28&p=87

A vacuum pump is not designed to hold a vacuum once it is turned off, in fact it will let the pumps oil be pulled into the charging hoses.

Thank You very much. I was wondering if the thing was broken. :rofl: It just seems crazy to me that it's not dealt with by the manufacturer. But I guess this is one of those live and learn things. Makes perfect sense now. :up:

I tried to test a couple of hoses, but gave up pretty quickly. Connected directly to the vacuum pump was a waste of time. So, I tried the blue and red hoses through the manifold-pulling a vacuum then closing the valves....same thing: from 200-300 microns up to +1100 in 60 secs or less. I basically reached the conclusion that it may very well be the supco vg64 that's leaking. But then was definitely open to the hoses also. Seems that these hoses are good for pressure, but not so good for vacuum. I don't currently have the fittings to check the supco without using hoses....so I'm kinda stuck there atm.

I did manage to hold a vacuum more then once. I think it may be the access valve cap on the access port of the Supco vg64. I changed it at one point, but did way too many things to remember. I have plenty of those caps--brand new--so, I will change that cap out and see what happens. :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by art_h

This is a very interesting project.
I hope I am not too annoying with too many questions.
What is the Significance of 56K warning in the title?
Someone suggested to me that there is a solder suitable for SS.
Mfg: Harris Brand Name: Stay Silver 15 and Stay Silver Flux. Does anyone have any experience with this?
I guess brazing is preferred to solder?
Can anyone comment on the concerns relating to the selection of a brazed plate HX?
The main concern may be that you have the same or better heat transfer.
Can you have too much heat transfer?
The brazed plate HX seems to be much smaller in volume, is this a concern?

---

The brazed plate is an extension of the fin and plate design. The major advantage here is it's surface area. The brazed plate design simply transfers an enormous amount of heat in a very small package. The only thing that could be better, would be one with more plates. You won't get any better than this design. It's used in many industrial applications by corporations for which money is NOT a constraint. If there was better, they'd be using it.

Shingoshi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ultralo1

If it is 400 microns or below you are good to go. If it is above 400 then vacuum somemore.

---

And most of all, I HATE vacuuming!! :ROTF:

Shingoshi

I think you might find it interesting:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.ph...2&postcount=92

Also, have you considered using the principles of an autocascade in the implementation of this system? It just seems like an interesting way to maximize the efficiencies of all your work.

Still loving what you do!

Shingoshi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shingoshi

Still loving what you do!

Shingoshi

---

Thanx! :up:


Just ordered some ball valves so I can "isolate" the supco VG64. If it does not leak then I can start checking the hoses, etc. Something is wrong here and there's really no way for me to tell until I can find out if the VG64 is leaking or not.

Plus the ball valves will come in handy anyway. :up:

I think someone posted this in one of my threads for me to see. I think you should look at this. This is one intense piece of information.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=144007

Cool deep, and chill out! :rofl:

Shingoshi

I don't currently have the knowledge or experience to deal with cascades or autocascades, Shingoshi. They are a lot more technical then what I am currently doing. It's not as simple as adding another compressor or mixing gases. :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naja002

I don't currently have the knowledge or experience to deal with cascades or autocascades, Shingoshi. They are a lot more technical then what I am currently doing. It's not as simple as adding another compressor or mixing gases. :up:

---

I'm just looking around to see how much trouble I can really get myself into. As though I don't have enough to worry about! :ROTF:

Shingoshi

Trust me--I know....:yepp:

I love Wikipedia. It makes me feel like the kid I was sitting in the library pouring through research materials. Yeah, I'd rather be there than out playing.

But this is what makes me excited now:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_refrigerator

I've been looking for ways to adapt this into powered systems, to lower the expense of the power used. It's just an interesting alternative that I continue to explore.

And then of course, there are Vortex tubes, and wondering how they could be added into a refrigerant system. Somewhere in the proximity of the evaporator, and dumping the heat off to the condenser.

Shingoshi

Hey man, this looks like it might be a solution for me, but I'm really, really concerned about noise. I want to keep the noise level for the chiller down to <30 dB, if possible.. in the video where you were cutting of the shaft..it was really loud- is it always that loud? What, exactly, is making all the noise? If its the fan- couldn't we replace it with some quieter case fans? If its the compressor, can we put some acoustic foam around it or anything? Or would any of that stuff have adverse effects on the system?

Thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shingoshi

I love Wikipedia. It makes me feel like the kid I was sitting in the library pouring through research materials. Yeah, I'd rather be there than out playing.

But this is what makes me excited now:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_refrigerator

I've been looking for ways to adapt this into powered systems, to lower the expense of the power used. It's just an interesting alternative that I continue to explore.

And then of course, there are Vortex tubes, and wondering how they could be added into a refrigerant system. Somewhere in the proximity of the evaporator, and dumping the heat off to the condenser.

Shingoshi

---

Shingoshi, I'm working on a project here--a specific project. Start a new thread to discuss this stuff. All this can do is derail this thread here. :up: I have and will need help with this and I don't want those requests difficult for others to find. :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robanada

Hey man, this looks like it might be a solution for me, but I'm really, really concerned about noise. I want to keep the noise level for the chiller down to <30 dB, if possible.. in the video where you were cutting of the shaft..it was really loud- is it always that loud? What, exactly, is making all the noise? If its the fan- couldn't we replace it with some quieter case fans? If its the compressor, can we put some acoustic foam around it or anything? Or would any of that stuff have adverse effects on the system?

Thanks!

---

Turn off your speakers and it becomes whisper quiet. :D Honestly, there's no way for you to know what level to set your speakers at...and there's no way for me to tell you. Also, the mic on my camera seems to pick up sound very well. In addition to that, it was no more than 1ft. away from the fan motor, so it sounds a heck of a lot louder than it really is. It's designed to pick up voices at how many feet away? :shrug: It's no louder than an average 5K btu AC and without the front fan--it's automatically quieter.

30db? I don't know what the average db is on a small window AC, but 30 sounds awfully low. Mine should be pretty quiet by the time I'm done, but I'm in no position to guess the db.

Hehe, I wish...
I was hoping you might have a case fan or something to use as a reference =p

Ok, the ball valves are here and the results are not good, so You tell me:

The Setup--Vacuum pump> Short hose>Ball valve>SupcoVG64>Ball valve:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...n--7-16-09.jpg




Here is a video (~2min) that shows the deal (apologies for the blurriness)-check your volume:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ge-7-16-09.jpg



I think the Supco needs to be RMAed, or would a cleaning fix this?

EDIT: Did the 10 sec alcohol cleaning per the instructions. Doing the overnight alcohol cleaning now, and waiting to hear back from you guys! :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robanada

Hehe, I wish...
I was hoping you might have a case fan or something to use as a reference =p

---

No such luck. This room sounds like a sever room anyway with all the fans going. :up: The noise really doesn't bother me. I don't realize how much noise there is--until I shut everything down...then it gets eerily quiet. :shocked:

I think RMAing the VG64 is the next step. I would try one more time, this time take the second ball valve off and cap the end of the VG64. No need to pull 10 min vac. Just let it go down to 50 microns then valve off. If it losses vac again then it is the gauge.

It looks like you got a good vac pump, it can pull 50 microns. Change the oil regularly and it will stay a good one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ultralo1

I think RMAing the VG64 is the next step. I would try one more time, this time take the second ball valve off and cap the end of the VG64. No need to pull 10 min vac. Just let it go down to 50 microns then valve off. If it losses vac again then it is the gauge.

---

Got it! Thanx :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ultralo1

It looks like you got a good vac pump, it can pull 50 microns. Change the oil regularly and it will stay a good one.

---

I was suprised to see it down to 23 microns! :shocked: I'm going to finish testing this VG64 and then change the oil. It's got a good dozen hours or more on it now since I've had it. It gets pretty hot. I set a small fan to blow on it, but it still gets pretty toasty. I'm assuming that's normal and 1 of the reasons why the oil needs changed so often in these things?

I was asking if things could be introduced into the current project, while it's still not completed, to increase the efficiencies here. But you're right. Sorry.

Shingoshi

Since I believe condensation is better removed from any cooling consideration, I think this thread applies to anyone who wants to maximize the lowest temperatures they can achieve.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...t=condensation

This will hopefully help anyone interested in having the absolute best cooling without any limitations. At least it will be a starting point for examination.

Shingoshi

Did the 10 sec shake cleaning on the VG64 yesterday, and then an "overnight". With the ball valve/cap setup (not 2 ball valves) it went from 50microns to 1050 and held for ~20mins. That's an definite improvement. Not sure what it means though. So, I just did a couple more 10 sec shake cleanings and set it up for a few/several hr cleaning again. So, we'll see if that offers any further improvement.

I'm not quite sure how this type of cleaning would correct the apparent problem, but there's an instructions addendum that states:

"90% of the vacuum gauge warranty returns that Supco receives are due to contaminated sensors. For vacuum gauges that are "Heavily" contaminated with oil or other contaminants, Supco has found that leaving the alcohol in the gauge overnight will clean the sensor more effectively."


It DID get it to hold a vacuum of ~900 microns (up from 50, 100, ??? :shrug: ) on 2 or 3 occasions.....mixed in with all of the behavior in the video above. That's why I was so ready to accept the hoses as probable culprit. But 5 hoses, 2 ball valves, multiple caps....? Anyway (:D) in consideration of this:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ultralo1

A vacuum pump is not designed to hold a vacuum once it is turned off, in fact it will let the pumps oil be pulled into the charging hoses.

---

The issue may very well be from the vacuum pump oil. I genuinely hope that it is. I can fix that here and save more wasted time and hassle.

We'll see.....:up:

Here is a decent link to "how it works".

http://www.belljar.net/tcgauge.htm

I use contact cleaner when I need to clean mine.

Again vacuum leaks are a PITA. It doesnt take much of a leak to lose vacuum. Also check your hose seals, and posibly flush the little hose. If it has ever had oil in it the oil has to out gas before a vacuum is held. Also new hoses have to out gas also. Maybe pull an over night vacuum on the setup.

Here is what I use.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ultralo1

Here is a decent link to "how it works".

http://www.belljar.net/tcgauge.htm

I use contact cleaner when I need to clean mine.

Again vacuum leaks are a PITA. It doesnt take much of a leak to lose vacuum. Also check your hose seals, and posibly flush the little hose. If it has ever had oil in it the oil has to out gas before a vacuum is held. Also new hoses have to out gas also. Maybe pull an over night vacuum on the setup.

Here is what I use.

---

Ok,Thank You once again. :up: Here's what's gone on and a silly question:


I did a "few" more of the 10 sec cleanings. A several hr cleaning and a couple more 10 sec cleanings. I pulled a 50 micron vac, it went up to around 1000 microns. I left it for 1.5 hrs and it held at 1200 microns. I still have it sealed, but removed from the vac pump. I've started an overnight vac on the AC setup as suggested in order to help degas the hoses, etc.

The manifold held a vac for over 24hrs. It did lose a wee bit, but that amounts to from center-right of the 30 mark to center-left of the 30 mark. Maybe it lost vac, maybe it was ambient temp change.....:shrug:

1 question that may seem silly is: How tight are these fittings supposed to be connected? I have gotten in the habit of cranking them completely down. But I realize from past experiences in life that some times that's not the right thing to do. I have also tried looser--to the point were it holds a vac during vacing--but with all this leakage.....I'm really wondering if I am doing the right thing or just damaging the seals....? :down:

Because I don't have much left. And by now, if I were you, it would all be gone!! I really hope you can get this thing to work. I empathize fully!

Shingoshi

Quote:

---

How tight are these fittings supposed to be connected

---

Hand tight will usually do. If you want it tighter then go about a half turn with pliers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ultralo1

Hand tight will usually do. If you want it tighter then go about a half turn with pliers.

---

Ok, cool, Thanx. I've been doing it completely as stated above. The only way I can get them any tighter is to break out the vice grips. :rofl: Seriously though. Just wanted to make sure that I wasn't damaging the seals or seats. :up:


It seems to be getting better with cleaning and long soaks, so I am going to keep at it. :up: With these ball valves though I can definitely get it vac'ed good and charged. Working on some other stuff right now. Which leads me to another question:

For the water plumbing: Sweat or braze? I want this to be able to do sub-zero, so is sweat good enough....or do I need to braze it (15% for copper to copper)...?

:bows::toast:

Doing a fine job brother!! You just amaze me more & more.:up:

Quote:

---

With these ball valves though I can definitely get it vac'ed good and charged.

---

I believe you are correct.

Solder should be fine for the water connections

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [XC] Hicks121

:bows::toast:

Doing a fine job brother!! You just amaze me more & more.:up:

---

:up::up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ultralo1

I believe you are correct.

Solder should be fine for the water connections

---

Thanx on both counts! :up:

I was never a big fan of the VG64 since they passed the contaminates ,oil,refrigerant through the meter. Since you already have one,you can dead end one side with a cap,and don't evac through the meter.and use Ultralo method of a short piece of copper and 2 .....1/4" sae flare nuts. Be sure when tighten flare nuts you use 2 wrenches,one one the nut and one one the valve or T or whatever fitting the nut tightens too.
(eliminates leaking hoses as long as the flare doesn't leak.)That will eliminate the hose. Generic hoses are a pita,and I had problems with top of the line YJ hoses.

Not removing valve cores really increases dehydration time.restrictions are critical @very low absolute pressures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wdrzal

I was never a big fan of the VG64 since they passed the contaminates ,oil,refrigerant through the meter. Since you already have one,you can dead end one side with a cap,and don't evac through the meter.and use Ultralo method of a short piece of copper and 2 .....1/4" sae flare nuts. Be sure when tighten flare nuts you use 2 wrenches,one one the nut and one one the valve or T or whatever fitting the nut tightens too.
(eliminates leaking hoses as long as the flare doesn't leak.)That will eliminate the hose. Generic hoses are a pita,and I had problems with top of the line YJ hoses.

---

Thanx, Walt. :up: I have been dead ending it for the most part, but not 100% from the beginning. I am now though. :up: With the ball valves it will be easier to put some copper pipes together. I was looking at Ultralo's setup, but I could not find females that had the valve depressor. The ball valves have them, so that becomes a non-issue. I may very well set things up similar to Ultralo's, but for the moment I'm stuck with the hoses.

What I've been doing lately is: I have a ball valve on the High and low side, and one on the vacuum hose (yellow) on the manifold. I pull a good vac and then close all the valves (including manifold), disconnect the high side, attach VG64 to high side hose and open the valves ( leaving the high side ball valve closed, of course). That way the VG64 is dead ended yet still gives me a reading. Then I continue to pull a vac through the low side. Maybe I should reverse that (High v. Low side), but that's what I've been doing. And trying to get the VG64 cleaned out inside in the meantime. :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wdrzal

Not removing valve cores really increases dehydration time.restrictions are critical @very low absolute pressures.

---

Atm I'm not willing to spend the $40 each for 1 or 2 valve core removal tools. I can get the system down to 200 microns or just below. :up:

Ok, the plumbing is done. Testing it now. No leaks so far and not expecting any. I've got pix to post, but really no time to get it all done atm. :up:


After yanking the HX around to do the plumbing....I've got the AC sitting with 250psi of N2 again. Going to let it sit overnight while the water plumbing is under test.


Looks like I'll be ready to throw a charge to this thing before too long. I have not picked up any "extra" R-22. Wondering if I will/should expect to need any more then what came out of it.....? :shrug:



I will say that if I did this over I would do some things a bit different, and definitely in a different order. :p:


Ok, I lied--Here's some pix :p: :


Plumbing (3/4" to 1/2" barbs):

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...g--7-20-09.jpg

Being tested with a Quiet one 3000 pump (780GPH) w/ 10ft of head:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...g--7-20-09.jpg


This is the stuff I used for the connections to the HX:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...g--7-20-09.jpg


Says its good for -50 to 400F:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...g--7-20-09.jpg


Top connection:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...g--7-20-09.jpg


Bottom connection:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...g--7-20-09.jpg


That's all for now. Probably looking to throw a charge to it next....:up:



EDIT: It's been going for ~7.5 hrs now....no leaks. I'll let it run overnight.

Naj,
Would that RectorSeal work instead of me having to braze my cooling-blocks? Could I use one of the extreme Lok-Tite products to do the same thing around the threads of my blocks? They have one that's practically permanent. Or is there simply no way around it?

Shingoshi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shingoshi

Naj,
Would that RectorSeal work instead of me having to braze my cooling-blocks? Could I use one of the extreme Lok-Tite products to do the same thing around the threads of my blocks? They have one that's practically permanent. Or is there simply no way around it?

Shingoshi

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I don't know. Here's the data sheet:

http://www.rectorseal.com/files/212/dsno5.htm

It fit well within the scope of my needs, so I chose to use it. :up:

See this link, and tell me what you think:
http://www.rectorseal2.com/files/214/dstrublu.htm

Shingoshi

Too many variables for me to guess. If you knew what you were going to do, but you don't. It should handle anti-freeze, water just fine, but there's a number of other possibilities. That link does not give an operating temp range.

Subscribed :)

wow!...that's some serious work...
great job!
all i did was go out and buy one of these and just called it a day.
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1435/dsc01200u.jpg

johnksss, this is not fun at all ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DonNiger

Subscribed :)

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:welcome:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johnksss

wow!...that's some serious work...
great job!
all i did was go out and buy one of these and just called it a day.

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Yep, takes all the fun out of it. My rigs are already chilled. :up: This is about the adventure...:up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DonNiger

johnksss, this is not fun at all ;)

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:up:




Ok, been fiddling with trying to get this thing charged for a couple of days. The High-side pressure is just too high...

My guess is air. I've looked into a number of other things, but I think it's air in the system from not purging the hoses. :shakes:

So, the big question for me is: How do I separate the air from the refrigerant?

:shrug:

your right, it is all about the adventure!!
guess that's why i was first to try this idea, just to see if it would work..and it worked very well. so i completely understand in the end. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Naja002;3926388




[B

So, the big question for me is: How do I separate the air from the refrigerant?[/B]


:shrug:

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You dont.
Recover and start again.

Ok, I've ordered a couple of small cans of R-22 and will charge directly from those....:up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johnksss

your right, it is all about the adventure!!
guess that's why i was first to try this idea, just to see if it would work..and it worked very well. so i completely understand in the end. :)

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Apologies, John, wasn't trying to ignore you! :welcome: I like to learn new things and this whole deal is basically a new world for me! :yepp:

I've got my ghetto chiller going (--sig: chill, man, chill). It's great--no muss, no fuss...works like a charm! :up: Fun, simple setup, but I'm ready to move into something really new for me...and this is it! :yepp:

no worries!. you look like your ready for ln2/dice lhe

Houston, we have a problem. Cabin heat is relocating and everything is frosting over. Please respond....Over.

:D


http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ingOver069.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...lies/peace.gifhttp://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...C/XSspacer.jpghttp://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...C/XSspacer.jpghttp://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...C/XSspacer.jpg http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...C/XSspacer.jpghttp://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...C/XSspacer.jpghttp://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...lies/peace.gifhttp://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...C/XSspacer.jpghttp://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...C/XSspacer.jpg http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...C/XSspacer.jpg http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...C/XSspacer.jpghttp://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...C/XSspacer.jpghttp://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...lies/peace.gif

well...looks like you have the ice part down pat!

lol

man, that system looks real chilly!

Seems like a serious need of insulation.

Shingoshi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johnksss

well...looks like you have the ice part down pat!

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Well enough that it froze plain water w/ only a 40w load from a 780gph pump with 10 of head. :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shingoshi

Seems like a serious need of insulation.

Shingoshi

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Got it. The insulation will go on after I finish getting it charged. :up:

ready to see what over all numbers that system drums up..:)

I think SoddemFX is here on this forum. If so, he's got real good experience with extreme insulation. In terms of overkill, he's got mass murder down pat!

Shingoshi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johnksss

ready to see what over all numbers that system drums up..:)

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Just ordered 3x 250W aquarium heaters. I already have 2x 50W, and the pump adds ~40W...giving me a potential test bed of 890W. My cruncher load that my ghetto chiller handles is 900-1kw, but I have to keep that above dew point. I plan on tuning for a 500W load, and then the chips will fall where they may....

What ticks me off is that I just sold off a bunch of aquarium stuff a few months ago....including ~6 heaters....:mad: :p:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shingoshi

I think SoddemFX is here on this forum. If so, he's got real good experience with extreme insulation. In terms of overkill, he's got mass murder down pat!

Shingoshi

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I've got the insulation and all. It's even cut for the HX. Just needs to be installed, but that comes later....:up: Right now, I just need to wait for the heaters to set the tune and then I can play with it a bit, finish it up, and play with it some more....:p:

Hey, don't feel bad. I had to throw out a bunch of old ATX power supplies which I now found out might have been used to drive my ultrasonics. Crap happens!

Shingoshi