Corrupt LINUX ACPI tables in BIOS

[D_A]

VERY interesting post on the Ubuntu forums.

It seems that Foxconn have deliberately set up their BIOS to cripple linux users.

They have several different tables, a group for Windws XP and Vista, a group for 2000, a group for NT, Me, 95, 98, etc. that just errors out, and one for LINUX.

The one for Linux points to a badly written table that does not correspond to the board's ACPI implementation, causing weird kernel errors, strange system freezing, no suspend or hibernate, and other problems, using my modifications below, I've gotten it down to just crashing on the next reboot after having suspended, the horrible thing about disassembling any program is that you have no commenting, so it's hard to tell which does what, but I'll be damned if I'm going to buy a copy of Vista just to get the crashing caused by Foxconn's BIOS to stop, I am not going to be terrorized.

The poster also offers a possible fix that people can try, if they're game.

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EDIT:
It seems the same code is used by Asus and probably other mainboard mfanucturers as well, and its not crippled on purpose by the mainboard manufacturers to cause Linux users and developers problems

-Saaya

[NaeKuh]

rawr

stupid foxconn.

unfortunately there one of the largest motherboard makers in the business.

[D_A]

Not for long

[pwolfe]

Not for long

unfortunately, and I say this as someone who dropped ms 9 years ago and used linux exclusively since then, I do not think we represent enough of the market share to cause them to stop doing this. But who knows, maybe if there is enough uproar they'll do something about it.

side note: this hit the front pages of digg and reddit today

[RAMMIE]

Why should foxconn or any other MB assembler care about Linux when the user base is less than .1 percent of all desktop users?Microsoft has a stranglehold on the public and it isn't going to change anytime soon.If I was a hardware manufacturer I would first care about what the majority of users use.When Linux becomes mainstream,they will be catered to.Gotta make the money to stay in business.

[fart_plume]

Now that this out, it could prompt government investigations, and if it's found MS has anything to do with it, it will be anti-trust city for them..............

[D_A]

RAMMIE, you misunderstand. The BIOS is written SPECIFICALLY to disadvantage linux. It's not a matter or apathy, it's DELIBERATE. The BIOS even goes to the trouble of using multiple redundant checks to make sure the OS is or is not Windows Vista/XP rather than just using the standard checks. It is very, very deliberate.

[D_A]

One thing I find myself wondering about is whether we shouldn’t try to make the “ACPI” extentions somehow Windows specific.

It seems unfortunate if we do this work and get our partners to do the work and the result is that Linux works great without having to do the work.

Maybe there is no way to avoid this problem but it does bother me.

Maybe we could define the API’s so that they work well with NT and not the others even if they are open.

Or maybe we could patent something related to this.

Full text PDF here

[Mr.Guvernment]

the mobo was marketed as Windows certified, NOT linux certified? can foxconn not make ONE motherboard that works specifically for windows?

[STEvil]

current news has it as a bug.

[saaya]

It seems that Foxconn have deliberately set up their BIOS to cripple linux users.

RAMMIE, you misunderstand. The BIOS is written SPECIFICALLY to disadvantage linux. It's not a matter or apathy, it's DELIBERATE. The BIOS even goes to the trouble of using multiple redundant checks to make sure the OS is or is not Windows Vista/XP rather than just using the standard checks. It is very, very deliberate.

dont you think this sounds "a little" paranoid ?
i work for foxconn and never noticed that any of our engineers, hardware or software, have anything against linux, on the contrary...

and even if they had any problem with linux, why would we do this?
why would we make such an effort as the article suggest, of doing multiple checks and whatnot and then deliberately create false tables, to cause a very small percentage of the users of that product to have a hard time?

just think about it, it doesnt make any sense whatsoever...

people just love the idea of a big evil organisation trying to enslave the human race, and consipracy theories and whatnot... but isnt it pretty obvious that this is just a bug or simply badly written acpi tables?

i dont know that much about BIOS programming, so i might be wrong...
im on a business trip atm, but when im back in taipei ill check with the engineers to see what this is about, ok?

[D_A]

Let's see ... Unkie Bill has already publicly stated that he wants to find a way to stop linux users from benifiting from ACPI (an open standard, btw)

The BIOS in question makes MULTIPLE checks to verify what OS is loaded on the system, regardless of what is returned to it via the normal channels.

When it identifies the OS as Linux based, it direct to a table that LOOKS ok, but which causes a Linux OS to have all manner of weird ACPI related issues.

Microsoft has "certified" that the ACPI implementation on this board meets the standard, which it clearly does not.

Mate, it's not paranoia when they REALLY ARE out to get you!

[Mr.Guvernment]

If it isn't ACPI "standard" why does windows not have any issues with ACPI then?, as foxconn said it meets ACPI standards for MS OS, and this board was marketed as a windows certified board, not a linux certified board...

[D_A]

Read the article, fanboy. The BIOS directs Linux to a DIFFERENT TABLE than it does Windows. It does not use the same ACPI tables for both and goes to some lengths to make sure of it.

[littleowl]

If it isn't ACPI "standard" why does windows not have any issues with ACPI then?, as foxconn said it meets ACPI standards for MS OS, and this board was marketed as a windows certified board, not a linux certified board...

IMO
That is the problem!!! The way MS works, mobo companies will start using linux for marketing in a way that you will have to buy special stuff no matter what. hum makes me think of apple

why would we make such an effort as the article suggest, of doing multiple checks and whatnot and then deliberately create false tables, to cause a very small percentage of the users of that product to have a hard time?

Because MS told you to..... Oh no that wouldn't happen! never has!

[BenchZowner]

I take it nobody has a normal and exciting life nowadays, and because of that everybody's looking and bringing up ( or seeing ) conspiracy theories everywhere.
Have you ( personally ) experienced any of the issues reported by that site ?
If it's a conspiracy as you suggest, then wouldn't it apply to all the boards released by Foxconn recently ?
What does Foxconn have to win out of this ?
Why would they do something like that, especially now that except from the OEM manufacturing that they always had ( you don't know how big Foxconn is, most of you I'd say ) and "their own branded" products on the market ?

So...by your saying, if the issue is true and affects everybody and every board, and Foxconn introduce a new BIOS to fix that, would that mean that their deal with the devil ( Microsoft per se ) didn't work out ?

[D_A]

...
What does Foxconn have to win out of this ?
Why would they do something like that ...

What is this? 20 mindless questions? Think for yourself for a change. The 'why?' is simple. $$$$$$$ Microsoft has a known history of handing massive kickbacks to hardware vendors who give them exclusive deals, just like they gave out massive bribes and 'salted' voting memberships in the recent OOXML standards scandal. Don't the words "anti trust" ring a bell with you?

If they don't comply their customers (Dell HP etc) start getting polite "suggestions" that other manufacturers support Vista "better" and it could be in their interests to change suppliers. Then they mention how hard it is to get "Vista Ready" certification without "adequate" hardware. If a manufacturer can't get certification for the latest monopolistic OS, they sell NOTHING.

Microsoft isn't THE Evil Empire, it's just another big corporation and behaves just like most other big corporations.

[alucasa]

Microsoft isn't THE Evil Empire, it's just another big corporation and behaves just like most other big corporations.

Well..., Microsoft is the evil empire, at least to you, it seems. No offense, but that is the impression I've gotten from your posts and the link you've posted.

Note : I am a heavy windows user, but I also deal with Ubuntu (for my Yonah/Merom crunchers) and CentOS due to my dedicated hosting server.

[D_A]

Well..., Microsoft is the evil empire, at least to you, it seems. No offense, but that is the impression I've gotten from your posts and the link you've posted.

Note : I am a heavy windows user, but I also deal with Ubuntu (for my Yonah/Merom crunchers) and CentOS due to my dedicated hosting server.

Like I said, just a big corporation. They just happen to be the particular big corporation in question here and now. I think no better or worse of most of them. They are all greedy and manipulative in ways most people can't even begin to imagine.

[alucasa]

They are all greedy and manipulative in ways most people can't even begin to imagine.

Greed is our nature, and manipulation has been with the man kind ever since the beginning. Pretty much everything in our daily lives involves manipulation, mostly in lesser degree. (getting a girlfriend to go out with you, getting along with friends, buying something for less, convincing your boss and everything else)

Well, they are big as you said, so they have the powers to use greater degree of manipulation. I see nothing wrong with that. It's a tactic, a very valid one at that.

What are you expecting from people? Fairness? It doesn't exit.

[D_A]

I see. First you criticize me, then when you can't argue the point you claim there's no foul. You work for who exactly?

[64dragon]

Originally Posted by Bill Gates
One thing I find myself wondering about is whether we shouldn’t try to make the “ACPI” extentions somehow Windows specific.

It seems unfortunate if we do this work and get our partners to do the work and the result is that Linux works great without having to do the work.

Maybe there is no way to avoid this problem but it does bother me.

Maybe we could define the API’s so that they work well with NT and not the others even if they are open.

Or maybe we could patent something related to this.

sadly, that doesn't surprise me

the mobo was marketed as Windows certified, NOT linux certified? can foxconn not make ONE motherboard that works specifically for windows?

last i checked but i could be wrong, NO board is marked linux certified and they shouldn't need to be. you dont see them marked as mac certified either

im on a business trip atm, but when im back in taipei ill check with the engineers to see what this is about, ok?

please do

[Solarfall]

dont you think this sounds "a little" paranoid ?
i work for foxconn and never noticed that any of our engineers, hardware or software, have anything against linux, on the contrary...

and even if they had any problem with linux, why would we do this?
why would we make such an effort as the article suggest, of doing multiple checks and whatnot and then deliberately create false tables, to cause a very small percentage of the users of that product to have a hard time?

just think about it, it doesnt make any sense whatsoever...

people just love the idea of a big evil organisation trying to enslave the human race, and consipracy theories and whatnot... but isnt it pretty obvious that this is just a bug or simply badly written acpi tables?

i dont know that much about BIOS programming, so i might be wrong...
im on a business trip atm, but when im back in taipei ill check with the engineers to see what this is about, ok?

im with you on this 1 saaya.. it dont seem to make any sense what so ever..

lol the reason i dont use linux is that it sucks on 3Dmark

[64dragon]

lol the reason i dont use linux is that it sucks on 3Dmark

imo, thats a lame excuse to stick with an OS, bc of a benchmark. there is a version of Pi for linux and my times are 7 seconds quicker. if 3dmark's got ported to linux i can't imagine how high new world record scores would be.

[loonym]

Maybe this is a dumb question but why wouldn't people that want to run a certain os simply use hardware that works with it? There are certainly enough options out there to satisfy everyone.