What is wrong with this modded Mach 2? Video and Pic

[[XC] gomeler]

God I hope that thing is charged with a hydrocarbon or are we suggesting for individuals to break laws in regards to handling refrigerants.. I don't care if it's just a few quick shots of refrigerant, there's a legal reason as to why builders recover refrigerants and don't just vent them. Walt would have a field day right now I imagine

[xt0m]

Okay, looks like all your advice paid off

Primed at 4.4 GHz @ 1.7v and let off some coolant every few minutes until temps stabilized.
Temps finally stable at -37 when doing 4.4 GHz @ 1.7v - with no floodback sounds or "clanks"

Now idle at qx6850 default speed/vcore and temp reads -46.8 (and no noises of any kind)

Thanks a lot for the help!!

[Nosfer@tu]

Now I tok mine appart, my girl claimed to smell gas.
She has seen a few fires so se always reacts very proptly if anythings smells wrong, and she is dead rigth every time.

This time she must be wrong thoug. But I have no clew what could smell besides the electronis or the compressor getting very hot.

I took mine apart and looked a bit around, was getting worried if I 2 had sped 300 euro on somthing that would need a rebuild.

Noticed this, I just did a few paint skills on the pic, no need to take one atm.



This is the picture I saw of our units, but after opening them I see the dryer is laying down. that is not normal is it ?

[Supertim0r]

It's not a problem.

could you check your compressor temp after you fixed the "overcharge" ?

I bet it's running at least 60-80c. I had similar problem and removing some gas gave me crazy high compressor temp.

I guess next time I modify it, i'll put a suction accumulator

[tiborrr]

Dryier should be mounted as is on the picture to provide good seal. If its mounted horizontally it could cause some problems by not catching majority of the oil possibly spitted in the loop by the compressor.

Besides, NL11F is an R134a compressor so it runs fairly hot on R404a / R507a. I would recommend a fan blowing over the head of compressor.

P.S.: What would you guys recommend - suction or discharge accumulator? In an single stage cooling unit with a fairly down-to-earth compressor (cca. 11-14ccm, 1/3 - 1/2hp)?

[Supertim0r]

Dryier should be mounted as is on the picture to provide good seal. If its mounted horizontally it could cause some problems by not catching majority of the oil possibly spitted in the loop by the compressor.

Besides, NL11F is an R134a compressor so it runs fairly hot on R404a / R507a. I would recommend a fan blowing over the head of compressor.

P.S.: What would you guys recommend - suction or discharge accumulator?

you can't run a discharge accumulator (receiver) with cap tube

there is no problem with the dryier installed horizontally. The unit have barely 3-4ft of piping. With a suction accumulator, you will have to add some oil

[tiborrr]

I know that, i was talking generaly - receiver right after condenser as seen on some cold_ice cascade (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=101171) or accumulator on the suction line.

I know, i am thread hijacking... Back to topic.

[Duniek]

Dryier should be mounted as is on the picture to provide good seal. If its mounted horizontally it could cause some problems by not catching majority of the oil possibly spitted in the loop by the compressor.

Besides, NL11F is an R134a compressor so it runs fairly hot on R404a / R507a. I would recommend a fan blowing over the head of compressor.

P.S.: What would you guys recommend - suction or discharge accumulator? In an single stage cooling unit with a fairly down-to-earth compressor (cca. 11-14ccm, 1/3 - 1/2hp)?

dryer might be placed in horizontal position with a little angle to down
or just on pic, its good position

and discharge receiver isnt good idea when you want use a cap tube
but suction is better then, it will be floodback protector

@Nosfer@tu
hot isnt a good word

pls measure temp of head of compressor
when you runnig on load (50-60-70*C it will be normal temp)
for rotary compressor 100*C is normal

@tiborrr
blowing fans is nothing
copressor is cooling by cold* refrigernant which is back to compressor

[Supertim0r]

I know that, i was talking generaly - receiver right after condenser as seen on some cold_ice cascade (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=101171) or accumulator on the suction line.

I know, i am thread hijacking... Back to topic.

Danfoss TES2 with 00 orifice <- expansion valve, not cap tube (expansion valve will adjust the quantity of gas with the load, cap tube don't)

yep, back to the topic

[Supertim0r]

@Duniek : suction accumulator will give you 15-25c more of superheat. Compressor will run colder then undercharged unit but not a lot

[Nosfer@tu]

Im learning, So for my seak dont get back on topic

Btw is it normal with the driyer like that ?
Where should that ben be that would prevent the oil going around in the system ?

[tiborrr]

Tnx for the heads up, supertim0r, haven't read it properly obviously. GJ!

Topic!!!

[LittleDevil]

Btw is it normal with the driyer like that ?

Yes it is all ok with dryer/filter position, don't worry about that.

Okay, looks like all your advice paid off

Primed at 4.4 GHz @ 1.7v and let off some coolant every few minutes until temps stabilized.
Temps finally stable at -37 when doing 4.4 GHz @ 1.7v - with no floodback sounds or "clanks"

Now idle at qx6850 default speed/vcore and temp reads -46.8 (and no noises of any kind)

Thanks a lot for the help!!

Sounds good, what about if you put vcore on 1.8V or more, does it hold temps?

Regards

[tiborrr]

QX6850ES puts out about 345W (+/- 5&#37 of heatload, pressuming its an Kentsfield-XE core (130W TDP = about 110W ACP = 290W ACP heatload) when the chip is priming on all four cores... Adding more Vcore might push the unit over the edge.

[LittleDevil]

QX6850ES puts out about 345W (+/- 5%) of heatload, pressuming its an Kentsfield-XE core (130W TDP = about 110W ACP = 290W ACP heatload) when the chip is priming on all four cores... Adding more Vcore might push the unit over the edge.

Is that is real, there is no unit that it can hold QX6850ES at 345W. His unit was tuned for 230W if i'm corect before he left out some gas and we saw that is overcharged.

Best Regards

[tiborrr]

Do the math. TDP of QX6850 is 130W, lets say actual heat output is about 20W lower than thermal design point.

Pn = Pt * (vn/vt) * (Un&#178;/Ut&#178

- TDP - thermal design point (Pt = power [W])
- Default voltage (Ut = voltage [V])
- Default frequency (νt = frequency [MHz])
- Overclocked voltage (Un = ...)
- Overclocked frequency (vn...)

If we take TDP=ACP=110W,Vcore=1.3V,3000MHz, 4400MHz, 1.75V we get 295 Watts.

[killermiller]

The heat output isn't linear.

[tiborrr]

Indeed, it isn't linear, it's even worse. Thermal resistance grows with wattage aswell.

[[XC] 2long4u]

The dryer is like that so there will always be liquid going into the captube.
By the way where is the captube?

[tim-]

peter:
sad to hear you can't talk to me directly instead of putting it on a forum. especially when it seems like you havn't heard the whole story.

well first off tom contacted me about a week ago and we have talk about this. He told me it was running perfectly without any noises or issues when he picked it up and test it (a couple of months ago).

and now like last week, it's making strange shutdowns (just hitting -30 or something and shut down). i told him it's the controller that's making the strange shutdowns (it's happend before on other mach units). then a couple of days later he tells me he have solve the shutdown issue (the controller as i said).

at this point the noises is still there. i got 2 wmv files, and of the sounds I mentioned it could be a damaged compressor since it's a bit mechanic to be floodback

those did -31 and -33 @ 230w load with same loadblock temp in my workshop. a slightly floodback during 0w load is normal as i've already mention to tom.

this was sent to me 2007-12-17 02:42 together with the videos

"Hi Tim,

As agreed here are the audio recordings of the SS Unit running with my QX6850 @ 4.4 GHz with fans on Turbo.
Listen carefully, and you will note the ”clicks” and ”coughs” that stand out.

I’ve added a few pics of the insulation, taken with my digicam, as well..

/t0m"


this what was making me judge about the damaged compressor. if it was as much floodback as you hear in the video the compressor should be totally freezed at the bottom which it isn't.

this just makes me confused. on emails i get one history, and here i see another. well atleast it's good that in the ens it runs good.


regards
Tim

[Nosfer@tu]

peter:
sad to hear you can't talk to me directly instead of putting it on a forum. especially when it seems like you havn't heard the whole story.

I have all the emails and from what I read you blame the shipping company, isent that why you wanted the Track and trace nr ?

well first off tom contacted me about a week ago and we have talk about this. He told me it was running perfectly without any noises or issues when he picked it up and test it (a couple of months ago).

yes it does without load.

and now like last week, it's making strange shutdowns (just hitting -30 or something and shut down). i told him it's the controller that's making the strange shutdowns (it's happend before on other mach units). then a couple of days later he tells me he have solve the shutdown issue (the controller as i said).

Correct, so now we could accualy run it and give it load, because of the firmware update, and it is under load the unit dosent work well, but you tested that already I understand ? and It worked fine, you had no problems with the unit shutting down ?

at this point the noises is still there. i got 2 wmv files, and of the sounds I mentioned it could be a damaged compressor since it's a bit mechanic to be floodback

apparently it is a building flaw, you diden do a bend that would perhibit the oil from flowing around in the unit. That is why it sounds so mecanical.

those did -31 and -33 @ 230w load with same loadblock temp in my workshop. a slightly floodback during 0w load is normal as i've already mention to tom.

Tim, the unit has floodback and amazingly funny sounds even at QX6850 @ 4.3 Ghz 1.7 Vcore.
You dident se any floodback at your house ? Or at least so you told me.

this was sent to me 2007-12-17 02:42 together with the videos

"Hi Tim,

As agreed here are the audio recordings of the SS Unit running with my QX6850 @ 4.4 GHz with fans on Turbo.
Listen carefully, and you will note the ”clicks” and ”coughs” that stand out.

I’ve added a few pics of the insulation, taken with my digicam, as well..

/t0m"


this what was making me judge about the damaged compressor. if it was as much floodback as you hear in the video the compressor should be totally freezed at the bottom which it isn't.

this just makes me confused. on emails i get one history, and here i see another. well atleast it's good that in the ens it runs good.

regards
Tim

hello Tim, Just accept that the unit is Not damaged, that you overcharged it and we could have fixed it very fast. Apparenly you dident test it, you couldent anylyse it and we had to get help from somone else.
Now I went to XS, spoke to some others and everybody knew what the problem was.
you dident! So what would I have gained speaking more to you ? You stated that the compressor was propperly broke and that we should find track and trace number so we could claim money from the shipping company.

I belive you chaged my Unit, figured that was great, charged Xtoms with the same amount and never even bothered to turn it on.
Because IF YOU DID; you would have spotted the lowest idle was -33 and that when applying load the unit is screaming for its life.

[Nosfer@tu]

The dryer is like that so there will always be liquid going into the captube.
By the way where is the captube?

I dont have a picture of it, I will take some when I get home.

[TopherTony]

This really is not an issue to be solved in public.

[killermiller]

I am not taking sides here but Tims testing conditions may be different than your running conditions. Floodback is not always overcharging, it could also be over condensing. If evap temps are high and superheat is much lower could be a sign of too much subcooling. I am going through this myself.

[tim-]

killermiller:
thats an option to but without some info it's impossible to judge.
in my workshop they where running fine thats what I can say, you didn't want to go and chech them up or pick then up when you where in town.

to judge of the situation it seems like it was overcharged for the conditions it's running in, here it was no issues whatever you say peter, as you know you where invited to both run then and try them when you where in town but it wasn't interesting.
I also mentioned to let some gas out in one of my emails but it seems like peter havn't read that line either, it seems like you havn't read any of the emails expect the part i mention it could be a damaged compressor.


I won't argue about this anymore. now peter and tom have let gas out and seems to solve the issue, I'm happy for them it was that easily done.

Peter:
get a book and read before making any statements about something you don't know, for example compressors, filter driers (both function and position), pipe bending tecniques, the whole book honestly. I' not trying to be rude, just honest.


about the controller:
i had no problems with unit shutting off, i would have report something like that for you ofcourse.

i told you it might be a damaged compressor because of the facts i got on my hand. to get back to what you've report asince you got them:

first time shortly after picking up:
- both running perfect
- peter mention his girlfriend notice a smell.

now:
- toms units makes strange noices
- peters units still working as good as when picked up, still smell.
- i get 2 videos.

to copy a part my own answear to the videofiles:
"To be honest I’cant judge if it’s floodback or something else, it sounds a bit mechanic to be floodback. . If you run it with your quad loaded, that’s not floodback you hear, it’s something else. "

I don't think i got a fair chance to anything about this with 2different stories + the report saying everything was running fine and smooth when arrived (2months or something ago). what i got is two videos with poor soundquality and a two tempreports, nothing else.

-------------

what do you PETER think i have for answear about the unit for you to judge on the history on msn/email? i made the statement about compressor damage from the reports on msn as well as emails. the story i got: toms unit has running perfect for two months (when it picked up), then suddenly 2monts later it's making strange noices and the temps is poor. what else then a leak/damaged compressor could it be that cause poor temps? the leak was not an option due to the strange noises, what's left to do?

an old mach2 suddenly makes strange noice?

noone would make a different judgement then a damaged compressor out of that information, especially not when they know the compressor was running perfect in their own workshop as well as when delivered.

you have give me one history, and xtremesystems another one. to be honest, why would you say it was working fine the first time? why would you say it if you havn't test it? the shutting down have never been mentioned before, which you claims now was an issue from the beginning, which you 100&#37; should do if it has been like this since it comes from me (as you claim now).

you are lying for someone, in the emails and/or here.



to talk about the smell.
it's pressuretested, leakfree and running ok (both in my shop and you say so too), that is my responsibility. if your electrical is messed up or something else, it's out of my responsibility since that wasn't what i was hired for.