Raid0 and TRIM Support on Intel 11.5 OROM and Latest v11.5.0.1184 RST Drivers ?

Been a while since i posted anything on this part of the forum :p: , some people are reporting using Latest Intel Raid OROM 11.5 and Latest v11.5.0.1184 RST Drivers are saying that they are getting TRIM support while using Raid0 on Intel ICHR10 , on X58 boards , Z68 ,Z77 and X79 ??? Can someone here confirm this for me , i do not know what to believe anymore , as far as i know Intel on its last Intel® Rapid Storage Technology 11.5.0.1109 Alpha Version Release Notes dated August 11 , 2011. State " This release will not enable the TRIM on RAID0 feature, but it will be added in the next RST 11.5 release "

http://www.station-drivers.com/telec.../sata/11.5.htm
http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-ra...ore/14638.html
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5136/i...ort-for-raid-0


Now We have That next release driver the Intel talked about out in the wild wich its version v11.5.0.1184 RST Drivers , my question is does it enable Trim over Raid0 yes or no ? Does it work in both OS Windos 8 and Windows 7 ? If anyone has a definite answer with data and proff please share your findings , Thanks in advance :up:

Afaik it will require Windows 8 to implement trim for raided drives...I'm sure someone else can indulge further, bed time...lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chispy

Been a while since i posted anything on this part of the forum :p: , some people are reporting using Latest Intel Raid OROM 11.5 and Latest v11.5.0.1184 RST Drivers are saying that they are getting TRIM support while using Raid0 on Intel ICHR10 , on X58 boards , Z68 ,Z77 and X79 ??? Can someone here confirm this for me , i do not know what to believe anymore , as far as i know Intel on its last Intel® Rapid Storage Technology 11.5.0.1109 Alpha Version Release Notes dated August 11 , 2011. State " This release will not enable the TRIM on RAID0 feature, but it will be added in the next RST 11.5 release "

http://www.station-drivers.com/telec.../sata/11.5.htm
http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-ra...ore/14638.html
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5136/i...ort-for-raid-0


Now We have That next release driver the Intel talked about out in the wild wich its version v11.5.0.1184 RST Drivers , my question is does it enable Trim over Raid0 yes or no ? Does it work in both OS Windos 8 and Windows 7 ? If anyone has a definite answer with data and proff please share your findings , Thanks in advance :up:

---

chipsy i tried the latest beta and where crap i got BSOD while trying to open SSD toolbox and got me mad

and W8 keep locking on me so im just on the safe side using W7x64 and stable raid drivers dont want more backups, rebuilds, reinstalls

im using this

Intel® Rapid Storage Technology 11.1.0.1006 RAID

theres new ones but dont say raid so i dont know if its better to install those or the ones i have

Intel® Rapid Storage Technology 11.5.0.1001 WHQL

Gracias my old friend i was about to use a moded Bios with Intel 11.5 OROM and those 11.5 RST Drivers , glad i asked here first :) , all i want is Trim for my aging x58 Rampage 3 eXtreme Raid0 ICHR10 Set up.

As of right now im using a Moded Bios with intel OROM Option 11.2 and Intel RST Drivers 11.2 on my ICHR10 controller and i got a little boost in performance with this moded Bios and updated OROM for Raid , on my raid0 2x Samsung 128GB Raid0.

this is the most i can get out of the old ICHR10 with my set up.



http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9...888888888e.jpg
By chispy at 2012-07-12

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/614/7u567.jpg
By chispy at 2012-07-12

Im trying to keep this Rig for a little longer , thtas why im trying to max everything out of it. Again Thank You Sergio.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chispy

Gracias my old friend i was about to use a moded Bios with Intel 11.5 OROM and those 11.5 RST Drivers , glad i asked here first :) , all i want is Trim for my aging x58 Rampage 3 eXtreme Raid0 ICHR10 Set up.

As of right now im using a Moded Bios with intel OROM Option 11.2 and Intel RST Drivers 11.2 on my ICHR10 controller and i got a little boost in performance with this moded Bios and updated OROM for Raid , on my raid0 2x Samsung 128GB Raid0.

this is the most i can get out of the old ICHR10 with my set up.



http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9...888888888e.jpg
By chispy at 2012-07-12

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/614/7u567.jpg
By chispy at 2012-07-12

Im trying to keep this Rig for a little longer , thtas why im trying to max everything out of it. Again Thank You Sergio.

---

Un Placer ayudarte Chispy

this is what i got on my RAID0 of 2x intel SSD series 520

http://i.imgur.com/MRd42.png

Apparently for TRIM to work in a RAID volume on an Intel SATA controller you must meet all of the following requirements:

1. Windows 8

2. SSD's must have ATA8-ACS support

3. BIOS with supported Intel Option ROM (latest OROM's are v11.5.0.1414, v11.2.0.1527 and Enterprise v3.1.0.2101)

4. Intel RST driver (for Windows 8) that sends an UNMAP SCSI command (latest driver's are v11.5.0.1184 Beta and Enterprise v3.1.0.1085)

I had been looking forward to this for the last couple of years but unfortunately I have four Intel X25-m G2's which don't have ATA8-ACS support.

thanks for the info guys , i will do some more research on this matter and if I find anything good out of it i will post it here.

11.5 raid rom for x79 has shown it's face on station drivers, lots of good comments so far about w8.

http://www.station-drivers.com/index.html

double post, sorry, can someone delete please

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chispy

Now We have That next release driver the Intel talked about out in the wild wich its version v11.5.0.1184 RST Drivers , my question is does it enable Trim over Raid0 yes or no ? Does it work in both OS Windos 8 and Windows 7 ? If anyone has a definite answer with data and proff please share your findings ,

---

Maybe your questions will be answered by my report, which has been published >here<.

As much as I'd love to have trim for my array(s)....is that enough to get me to switch to Win8? Thus far I don't think so. Biggest reason is that SF controllers seem to do a decent looking after themselves even without trim.
So far I have a funny feeling that they'll have to pry Win7 out of my cold, dead and clinched hands. :lsfight:

win8 still locks up and freezes i installed 5 times, and diff mobo, chip,

i put latest nvidia for W8, HD and all drivers and freezes randomly, like a zillion post from user reporting the same

so the idea of moving for W8 just for trim no way

tales 10 minues to recover the image from acronis and will do alignment perfect instead of trim, and of course if before you do hdderase o partedmagic and erase your SSD will be as new and aligned

btw it is possible to update the ROM for RAID on the BIOS to latest Intel® RAID ROM 11.5.0.1414 in that case how i do it and will work with W7 ?

thanks !
Sergio

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andressergio

btw it is possible to update the ROM for RAID on the BIOS to latest Intel® RAID ROM 11.5.0.1414 in that case how i do it and will work with W7 ?

---

1. Yes, it is possible to update the Intel RAID ROM version of the mainboard BIOS.
2. I have written a tutorial about how to do it. You can find it >here<.
3. The updated PCI ROM modules will work with each Windows Operating System (XP, Win7, Win8 etc.).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fernando

1. Yes, it is possible to update the Intel RAID ROM version of the mainboard BIOS.
2. I have written a tutorial about how to do it. You can find it >here<.
3. The updated PCI ROM modules will work with each Windows Operating System (XP, Win7, Win8 etc.).

---

thanks Fernando u think this Intel® RAID ROM 11.5.0.1414 will work with W7x64 ? and latest drivers 11.5.XXX ??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andressergio

u think this Intel® RAID ROM 11.5.0.1414 will work with W7x64 ? and latest drivers 11.5.XXX ??

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On my Intel Z68 system with 2x128GB Crucial M4 SSD's as RAID0 both nstalled Operating Systems Win7 x64 and Win8 x64 are running fine with the combination Intel RAID ROM v11.5.0.1414 + RSTe drivers v11.5.0.1184.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fernando

On my Intel Z68 system with 2x128GB Crucial M4 SSD's as RAID0 both nstalled Operating Systems Win7 x64 and Win8 x64 are running fine with the combination Intel RAID ROM v11.5.0.1414 + RSTe drivers v11.5.0.1184.

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amazing but i see aint easy to replace it im kinda scared to do it :( i also read i have to replace AHCI ROM as well...i would love to but im off skills to do it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andressergio

i also read i have to replace AHCI ROM as well...

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No, the Intel AHCI ROM will be updated automaticly after having updated the Intel RAID ROM module.

ahh ok

so what about the device that manual points to i actually have this

BIOS 0903.cap loaded with the tool

http://i.imgur.com/3oKYn.jpg


Now to extract i have 3 devices wich i dont know wich one i have to choose

http://i.imgur.com/irHlC.jpg


if you can help me i appreciatte very much, from where i get that info ? wich device is ? i tried to find it on devices, and intel RST

Thanks a lot
Sergio

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andressergio

Now to extract i have 3 devices wich i dont know wich one i have to choose
if you can help me i appreciatte very much, from where i get that info ? wich device is ?

---

Please read my tutorial regarding that point.
You should scroll down the Link-ID box menue. The first 4 letters mean the VendorID (VEN_8086 is Intel) and the second 3 or 4 letters mean the DeviceID (DEV_2822 is the "Intel(R) Desktop/Workstation/Server Express Chipset SATA RAID Controller" and DEV_282a is the "Intel(R) Mobile Express Chipset SATA RAID Controller").
So search for the Link-ID 8086,2822, which is the suitable RAID device for your Z77 desktop system. If you should not find 8086,2822, you can take 8086,282a, which usually is designed for Mobile systems (both devices are using the same ROM module).

Thank you for all this new information Fernando , apretiate it ! I see you are everywhere Fernando and that's a good thing , your reaching and helping out others , your help its very welcome :) , Thank You. Question how about older chipset like mine Asus Rampage 3 extreme X58 ? do you know if OROM 11.5 it will work ok on this chipset x58 ? and also latest RST Driver 11.5 ? if you do not know i will give it a try and post results here. Let me know if you have the answer if not ill be the guinea pig and try it on my x58 :p:.

Fernando i have share your findings and gave you all the credit you desrve for this finding here: Would you please anwer some guys questions here if possible ? Thank you:

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread....=1#post4366877

Yes indeed chispy he opened my eyes on this matter
Thanks Fernando for the great job
Saludos desde Uruguay
Sergio

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fernando

Please read my tutorial regarding that point.
You should scroll down the Link-ID box menue. The first 4 letters mean the VendorID (VEN_8086 is Intel) and the second 3 or 4 letters mean the DeviceID (DEV_2822 is the "Intel(R) Desktop/Workstation/Server Express Chipset SATA RAID Controller" and DEV_282a is the "Intel(R) Mobile Express Chipset SATA RAID Controller").
So search for the Link-ID 8086,2822, which is the suitable RAID device for your Z77 desktop system. If you should not find 8086,2822, you can take 8086,282a, which usually is designed for Mobile systems (both devices are using the same ROM module).

---

Yes im reading and what i show u is the only ids that the program sees on the asus maximus gene 5 so i guess i have to use the 282a as the other doesnt exist

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chispy

Question how about older chipset like mine Asus Rampage 3 extreme X58 ? do you know if OROM 11.5 it will work ok on this chipset x58 ? and also latest RST Driver 11.5 ? if you do not know i will give it a try and post results here. Let me know if you have the answer if not ill be the guinea pig and try it on my x58 :p:.

---

Pretty sure using the 11.5 the orom and RST 11.5 driver isn't too hard but it may or may not yield a 'noticeable' difference with the exception of slightly improved benchmarks, it may not be worth the effort but then it might.

Here is a modded BIOS thread if you wanna read up...

http://forums.mydigitallife.info/forums/25-BIOS-Mods

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chispy

Question how about older chipset like mine Asus Rampage 3 extreme X58 ? do you know if OROM 11.5 it will work ok on this chipset x58 ? and also latest RST Driver 11.5 ?

---

Although I don't have an Intel x58 chipset system, I am sure, that the Intel RST(e) drivers of the v11.5 series will support it (the needed HardwareID's are present within the INF files). The Intel RAID ROM module v11.5.0.1414 will be usable too.
The only thing, which has to be investigated, is the behaviour of the x58 chipset SATA Controller regarding the SCSI filter driver named iaStorF.sys. My Intel Z68 chipset system is working without the filter driver in Win8 (the RAID0 is no SCSI disk device), that is why the Trim command may be able to pass through the RAID Controller.

I am awaiting your test results.

Regards
Fernando

Ok Fernando here i go For my testing using ROM 11.5.01414 and RST v11.5.0.1184, on page 1 you can see my speeds using the moded Bios done by ZioGTS for Asus R3E x58 Asus Rampage III Extreme 1601_S02 ZioMod , using ATTO and AS SSD benchmarks on Intel x58 ICHR10 Sata 2 Raid0 128k stripe size. for references i will re-run it again now before i clone this drive , i will be testing using w7 x64bit for 1 week doing heavy benchmarks to see if it is working properly and if maybe Trim works in w7 x64bit or if i get at least a speed boost using windows 7 , Sorry i hate w8 so no testing will be done on w8 as i will not use it anyways. Give me a few hours for back up , cloning and flash Bios Raid OROM , Clean Erase the drives and a fresh new intall of w7x64 bit Raid0 i will post ATTO and AS SSD after im done so that we can compare


" This is the latest available 1601 R3E beta bios with updated IRST, Marvell, Jmicron OROMs and injected SLIC 2.1 tables:

Intel® ICH10R SATA RAID Controller: v11.2.0.1527
JMicron JMB36X Controller: v1.07.28
Marvell 91xx SATA 6G Controller - Bios : v1.0.0.1033*
Marvell 91xx SATA 6G Controller - Firmware: v2.2.0.1125*
Marvell 91xx SATA 6G Controller - Bootloader: v1.0.1.0002b*
SLIC 2.1: ASUS (SSV3/MMtool method) "
Asus Rampage III Extreme 1601_S02 ZioMod
Here-http://www.bios-mods.com/forum/Thread-Asus-Rampage-III-Extreme-1601-S02-ZioMod-OROM-modules

Dual Post

If anyone with a Gigabyte motherboard looking for a modified bios can find them here http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte...fied-bios.html.

Intel Raid ROM V.11.5.0.1414
Intel RST Driver 11.2.0.1006
Test # 1
Asus R3E X58 ICHR10
W7x64 bit
Raid0 128k Stripe size used
AS SSD
ATTO

7/18/2012 11.55PM

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2262/003ch.jpg
By chispy at 2012-07-18

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7...rom115rstd.jpg
By chispy at 2012-07-18

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8...rom112driv.jpg
By chispy at 2012-07-18

Findings: Bios Raid ROM 11.5.0.1414 its faster than Bios Raid ROM 11.2 even with RST Driver 11.2.0.1006 as shown in the bench tests AS SSD and ATTO. It wont let me update to Intel Driver RST 11.5 , the system says it's using the latest driver and it's up to date. I will now re-install w7 x64bit installling RST Driver pressing f6 during w7x64 fresh installation and i will report back in a few hours.



Second Part

Test # 2

Intel Raid ROM V.11.5.0.1414
Intel RST Driver 11.5.0.1184
Test # 2
Asus R3E X58 ICHR10
2x Samsung 830 128GB SSDs Raid0 , Secure Erased Both SSDs
W7x64 SP1 bit Clean Fresh Install with all updates
Raid0 128k Stripe size used
AS SSD
ATTO

7/19/2012 3:32AM

AS SSD

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4...115test1as.jpg
By chispy at 2012-07-19

ATTO

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/8...115test2at.jpg
By chispy at 2012-07-19

My Findings and Conclusion: More Performance out of the combination of using both , Bios ROM 11.5 and RST Driver 11.5 , so far this is the best combination of driver RST and Bios Raid ROM for a good bump in performance , Writes did improved the most. Much more ballanced performance across. Very stable so far. I will hammered it with a lot of work and benchmarks for one week to see how the performance has degraded , or if by miracle some kind of TRIM or garbage collection its past trhu the Raid0 but as simple drives and not as a Raid0 array , time and testing will tell us next week wednesday 25th of July i will post the same benchmarks AS SSD and ATTO to see how far degradation has taken this array in one week thru hell.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Test # 3 and conclusion.

7/25/2012 10:34AM

One week has passed since i have started torture testing my Raid0 array , testing mode used as follow: 3 consecutive runs of each benchmark 5 times a day for a whole week AS SSD , ATTO , Cristal Disk , Anvil Storage Utilities , HD Tune , HDD Tach , Lots of writes and Lots of Reads + Large transfer files of BR Movies and huge pictures from diferent drives to and from the Raid0 array non stop for hours on end each day for 7 days , drive was used 24/7. Here its the real time performance of the same Raid0 array of 2x 128 Samsung SSDs on Intel ICHR10 x58 Using Intel Raid ROM V.11.5.0.1414 , Intel RST Driver 11.5.0.1184.

AS SSD

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2827/hhhhoy.jpg
By chispy at 2012-07-25

ATTO

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/7886/hoyq.jpg
By chispy at 2012-07-25


Final Conclusion and my own opinion / understanding: YES some kind of Trim and or garbage collection its working under w7x64bit restoring performance back to optimal speeds , It is to my opinion and understanding that under w7 x64 there some new files within the driver that Fernando discover earlier namely C:\windows\system32\DRIVERS\iaStorF.sys , this file its some kind of new filter for the function of the new 11.5 RST Driver , this filter must be seen the SCSI device in the Raid0 array as single drives and passing TRIM and or some kind of Garbage Collection as it is the only logical conclusion after the rigorous torture testing done for 7 days to this Raid0 array , i observe very bad degradation on Reads and Writes after the 5th pass of all the bencmark test , the system Reads went down to 294 max reads and 232 Max writes on AS SSD and ATTO , but once i let iddle for a couple of hours the Performance went back up and was completely restored to optimal speeds. I will try to contact Intel for an explanation and if they answer my questions i will post them here , feel free to do your own testing , im done with mine and i did prove to myself that yes definitely something its improving performance back after iddle time of about 2 hours of iddle system time. Feel free to discuss my findings and if you have a better theory and understanding with real data as proff + extensive testing please let us discuss here :) , Long live W7 x64bit :thumbup:


http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1161/nnnnnt.jpg
By chispy at 2012-07-25

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chispy

Findings: Bios Raid ROM 11.5.0.1414 its faster than Bios Raid ROM 11.2 even with RST Driver 11.2.0.1006 as shown in the bench tests AS SSD and ATTO.

---

This is an interesting result.

Quote:

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It wont let me update to Intel Driver RST 11.5 , the system says it's using the latest driver and it's up to date.

---

The MS Operating Systems prefer WHQL certified drivers. That is why you get the misleading message, if you try to replace a WHQL driver by a driver without WHQL certifcate.
This is the way to force the driver installation of an unsigned driver: Right click onto the Controller > "Update driver software" > "Browse my computer ...." > "Let me pick ...." > "Have Disk" > Point to the related INF file of the desired driver > "OK".

Fernando i updated my last post with the new benchamarks and much beter numbers using Intel Bios ROM 11.5.0.1414 in combination with RST Driver 11.5.0.1184 take a look at the jump in performance on those writes :) , so far so good.

Interesting results Chispy.

I found I got the best results so far from the Intel RST driver v11.2.0.1006 with OROM v11.2.0.1527 (already in the latest BIOS for my motherboard).

I am extremely close to the maximum performance I can possibly get from 4 x 80GB Intel X-25m in RAID0 (using the Intel ICH).

Intel Raid ROM 11.2.0.1527
Intel RST Driver 11.2.0.1006
Test # 1
ASRock Z77 Fatal1ty Pro (BIOS 1.30)
Windows 8 RP x64 bit
Raid0 32k Stripe size used
AS SSD

Windows Write cache buffer flushing disabled
Attachment 128543

Intel Raid ROM 11.2.0.1527
Intel RST Driver 11.2.0.1006
Test # 2
ASRock Z77 Fatal1ty Pro (BIOS 1.30)
Windows 8 RP x64 bit
Raid0 32k Stripe size used
AS SSD

Windows Write cache buffer flushing enabled
Attachment 128544

this are my results on the M5G Z77 with 2x Intel 520 series SataIII 120GB

BEFORE

BIOS 0903 + Intel® RAID ROM 11.0.0.1339 + Intel® Rapid Storage Technology 11.1.0.1006 RAID (vanila BIOS not modded)

http://i.imgur.com/cWu84.jpg

AFTER

BIOS 1101 + Intel® RAID ROM 11.5.0.1414 + Intel® Rapid Storage Technology 11.5.0.1184 Beta (modded BY stasio (BIG THANKS !!!)

http://i.imgur.com/vLq3m.jpg


overall improved will keep testing !!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chispy

Now We have That next release driver the Intel talked about out in the wild wich its version v11.5.0.1184 RST Drivers , my question is does it enable Trim over Raid0 yes or no ? Does it work in both OS Windos 8 and Windows 7 ? If anyone has a definite answer with data and proff please share your findings

---

Maybe you will get an answer to your question by my recent contribution at station-drivers (look >here<).

@ andressergio:
That looks really good!

@ all:
Although the users with an Intel RAID0 system already may know it, I want to mention, that the following settings are necessary to get the best Intel RAID0 write performance:

1. enable both write cache options within the Device Manager ("Drives" > "Intel RAID0" device >"Properties" > tab "Policies")
2. enable "Write Back Caching" from within the Intel RSTe Console ("Adminstration" > "Advanced")

@ chisby...afaik Windows 7 is not capable of passing the trim command (I forget the actual reason) to raided drives...it's gonna be a Windows 8 only thing I'm afraid. I have no problem with MS tinkering with the user interface (i.e. Metro and no start button) BUT I can't for the life of me figure out why they didn't make it possible to switch back to the original desktop style for those who prefer it (~90% imo) instead of the touch screen geared Metro..."I don't want no stinking tablet!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fernando

Maybe you will get an answer to your question by my recent contribution at station-drivers (look >here<).

@ andressergio:
That looks really good!

@ all:
Although the users with an Intel RAID0 system already may know it, I want to mention, that the following settings are necessary to get the best Intel RAID0 write performance:

1. enable both write cache options within the Device Manager ("Drives" > "Intel RAID0" device >"Properties" > tab "Policies")
2. enable "Write Back Caching" from within the Intel RSTe Console ("Adminstration" > "Advanced")

---

thanks Fernando ;)

looks good with new ROM and drivers...i think i had better reading with no 11.5 drivers but i have to try it cauz if you see the 4k section improved a lot !

cheers !!!
Sergio

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zaxx

@ chisby...afaik Windows 7 is not capable of passing the trim command (I forget the actual reason) to raided drives...it's gonna be a Windows 8 only thing I'm afraid. I have no problem with MS tinkering with the user interface (i.e. Metro and no start button) BUT I can't for the life of me figure out why they didn't make it possible to switch back to the original desktop style for those who prefer it (~90% imo) instead of the touch screen geared Metro..."I don't want no stinking tablet!"

---

are using W8x64 Zaxx i got tired of the damn lockups that lot of ppl have...

Guys i keep hammering the Raid0 array daily torture test , with all benchmarks available , also doing a lot of writes and reads all day , transfering huge images , pictures , BR Movies and what not , you guys will be surprised at my findings next wednesday i will have some proff , until then i will keep the torture going non stop , to check for Raid0 degradation in performance if there is any

Chispy, there is a simple test that you can do to see if TRIM is working that will not take as long, it is just a simple run of PCMV hdd suite when the drives are freshly sanitary erased. Then, write the entire capacity of the drive to 100% fill, then delete. Run PCMV HDD suite again, and compare the results :)

@ all:

Just for your information:
Yesterday night Intel has published new official RST(e) drivers v11.5.0.1207 WHQL. You can get them from >here<.

Thnx for the info !

*** Updated My Post Number 30 with my findings and conclusion after extensive testing and data collection for 7 days with Regards to Trim and or Garbage Collection on W7 x64bit , a big yes it is working.

@ Computurd , i will try that later today and will post back the results.

im still amaze of those results and I believe Intel needs to disclose information regarding this matter , i will try to contact them and if i get an answer i will post it here , lets keep discusing this subject i am intrigue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fernando

@ all:

Just for your information:
Yesterday night Intel has published new official RST(e) drivers v11.5.0.1207 WHQL. You can get them from >here<.

---

Big thx for the info. Well, I have one half of the equation...now to find a 11.5 orom bios for an Asus P8Z68-V Pro Gen3. I'm getting curious now.

[

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chispy

*** Updated My Post Number 30 with my findings and conclusion after extensive testing and data collection for 7 days with Regards to Trim and or Garbage Collection on W7 x64bit , a big yes it is working.

---

That is really very good news! Thank you for your efforts to test it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zaxx

..now to find a 11.5 orom bios for an Asus P8Z68-V Pro Gen3. I'm getting curious now.

---

Why don't you do it yourself? It is very easy, if you follow my guide (>LINK<). The required Intel RAID ROM v11.5.0.1414 can be downloaded from >here<.

win7 does not issue an unmap command. can't do it. only win8 can. win7 is missing this option in it's api. chisp, are you running win8?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fernando

@ all:

Just for your information:
Yesterday night Intel has published new official RST(e) drivers v11.5.0.1207 WHQL. You can get them from >here<.

---

wow cool thanks Fernando !!!

still no clue if TRIM works for RAID0 on W7 right ? i read a zillion threads but only clue i get is to look in CristalDiskInfo and says YES but how do you execute it or works alone ? i remember that for my intel there's the SSD toolbox but i dont know if they will release a newer one

cheers
Sergio

Hola MR. Oreilly im running W7x64bit SP1 all Updates , I'm so intrigue by my findings and still trying to find a logical explanation for this matter. But as per my long 7 days long test it Does shows Performance its back up to optimal speeds after the System iddle time for ~ 2 hours , " from my post # 30 , 7 Day Test """" i observe very bad degradation on Reads and Writes after the 5th pass of all the bencmark test , the system Reads went down to 294 max reads and 232 Max writes on AS SSD and ATTO , but once i let iddle for a ~couple of hours the Performance went back up and was completely restored to optimal speeds"""

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chispy

Hola MR. Oreilly im running W7x64bit SP1 all Updates , I'm so intrigue by my findings and still trying to find a logical explanation for this matter. But as per my long 7 days long test it Does shows Performance its back up to optimal speeds after the System iddle time for ~ 2 hours , " from my post # 30 , 7 Day Test """" i observe very bad degradation on Reads and Writes after the 5th pass of all the bencmark test , the system Reads went down to 294 max reads and 232 Max writes on AS SSD and ATTO , but once i let iddle for a ~couple of hours the Performance went back up and was completely restored to optimal speeds"""

---

i just observed that ASSD benchmark varies a lot on every shoot i give, im not sure if trim is working...using RAID ROM 11.5 latest + latest drivers Fernando publlished

btw on this combo my 4k write went a up a lot ! i got a score of 1180 now sometimes more sometimes less

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m.oreilly

win7 does not issue an unmap command. can't do it. only win8 can. win7 is missing this option in it's api. chisp, are you running win8?

---

That what I thought...posted on previous page. Thus far, being able to trim raided drives array isn't NEAR enuff to force me to use Metro...unless they make the old UI an option I'm not budging from 7. My array has been doing just fine thus far.

andressergio, looks like you did not have write back caching on your first as ssd pic. that would explain the lower score...

arg...these drivers are just awful on my x79 system. 11.0 and 11.2 are very nice. all the 11.5 seem to do is lower performance, even on my z68 with the 11.5 orom...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m.oreilly

andressergio, looks like you did not have write back caching on your first as ssd pic. that would explain the lower score...

---

thanks mate for ya help with new drivers score is better and i do have cache activated will do a screenshot for ya

here look how much improved compared to http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...-Drivers/page2

RAID ROM 11.5 latests + latest RST certified

http://i.imgur.com/VOvww.jpg

From what I've gathered, SCSI unmap is not on the public builds yet.

The simpliest way to verify if TRIM is working is with WinHEX

1/ Copy a JPEG file (for example) to the root directory of your RAID
2/ Open WinHEX then press F9 (Open Disk) then choose your RAID partition
3/ Choose your files and look at his content, note the first cluster / offset
4/ Then delete the file under Windows
5/ Under WinHEX press F9 to reopen your partition and choose "Take a new one"

=> When you choose your (deleted) file you must see 00 00 00 or FF FF FF (etc.) instead of the old content. If the content did not change then TRIM is not ok.
=> If the file is not here use alt+g or ctrl+g to go to the good location and see if you got 00 00 00 or FF FF FF (etc.) or the older data

Example :

http://www.hardware.fr/marc/rst_11.2_ahci.png

One SSD, AHCI, RST 11.2 : ok

http://www.hardware.fr/marc/rst_11.5_raid.png

Two SSD, RAID 0, RST 11.5 : bad

But for the moment i don't have a bios with ROM raid 11.5.0.1414 for my motherboard

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc HFR

The simpliest way to verify if TRIM is working is with WinHEX

1/ Copy a JPEG file (for example) to the root directory of your RAID
2/ Open WinHEX then press F9 (Open Disk) then choose your RAID partition
3/ Choose your files and look at his content
4/ Then delete the file under Windows
5/ Under WinHEX press F9 to reopen your partition and choose "Take a new one"

=> When you choose your (deleted) file you must see 00 00 00 (etc.) instead of the old content. If the content did not change then TRIM is not ok.

Example :

http://www.hardware.fr/marc/rst_11.2_ahci.png

One SSD, AHCI, RST 11.2 : ok

http://www.hardware.fr/marc/rst_11.5_raid.png

Two SSD, RAID 0, RST 11.5 : bad

But for the moment i don't have a bios with ROM raid 11.5.0.1414 for my motherboard

---

i do have new raid ROM and latest 11.5 certified i tried your method but i dont see the file anymore...

here pics

i copied

http://i.imgur.com/e7SGB.jpg

deleted and where is the file ? i followed you procedure exact

http://i.imgur.com/kElpc.jpg

Strange you don't get the filed marked as deleted

What about choose OK instead of Take a new one ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc HFR

Strange you don't get the filed marked as deleted

What about choose OK instead of Take a new one ?

---

i did like 3 times and nope it doesnt appear even with OK :shrug:

Strange, i'm not on the same PC here so i can't check, in fact i test with a larger file than a simple JPEG (2 or 4 GB video file) file but i thought it was the same with a smaller one. In any case just note the first cluster / offset when the file is here and go to the same location after it's deleted.

Just testing on another machine and it works as expected but not every time

If i choose "Take a new one" i see the file marked as deleted and content is 00 00 00 etc.
If i choose "OK" i see the file since file listing is not up to date but the content is 00 00 00 etc.

BTW when you do not see the file after hitting "Take a new one" use alt+g or ctrl+g to go to the good location

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc HFR

Strange, i'm not on the same PC here so i can't check, in fact i test with a larger file than a simple JPEG (2 or 4 GB video file) file but i thought it was the same with a smaller one. In any case just note the first cluster / offset when the file is here and go to the same location after it's deleted.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc HFR

Just testing on another machine and it works as expected but not every time

If i choose "Take a new one" i see the file marked as deleted and content is 00 00 00 etc.
If i choose "OK" i see the file since file listing is not up to date but the content is 00 00 00 etc.

BTW when you do not see the file after hitting "Take a new one" use alt+g or ctrl+g to go to the good location

---

ok man thanks i will try again :)

here's the result file removed even from Recycle bin

if i do as you say still file isnt there, but when i click the first snapshot instead of all hexa nrs its shows this:

http://i.imgur.com/57PnQ.jpg

maybe its working...what do you think ?

cauz here is the file when i just copied after deletion

http://i.imgur.com/AaxSg.jpg

cheers and thanks for the help
Sergio

If you got 00 00 when looking in the (old) file content then it's ok, so it is :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc HFR

If you got 00 00 when looking in the (old) file content then it's ok, so it is :)

---

:) seem so right ? you saw the pics ?

Yes, for the first screen

For the second screen i don't understand what do you want to show since you are on cluster 2 instead of 7059097

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc HFR

Yes, for the first screen

For the second screen i don't understand what do you want to show since you are on cluster 2 instead of 7059097

---

sorry i wanted to show that the file newed copied shows the hexa instead of 0

look at today after been idle some hours

http://i.imgur.com/J2eCN.jpg

I have 4 SSD in RAID0 on ICH10 (X58 chipset board) with OROM 11.5.0.1414 and IRST 11.5.0.1207 installed. Windows 7 U x64 SP1.

I have been trying the procedure outlined here, but it does not appear that TRIM is working, that is; the clusters never zero out.

Is that to be expected?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arctucas

I have 4 SSD in RAID0 on ICH10 (X58 chipset board) with OROM 11.5.0.1414 and IRST 11.5.0.1207 installed. Windows 7 U x64 SP1.
I have been trying the procedure outlined here, but it does not appear that TRIM is working, that is; the clusters never zero out.
Is that to be expected?

---

Not expected, but that seems to be the truth:
Until now only users with an Intel Z77 chipset mainboard have verified, that the Trim command really works within the RAID0 array. So i think, that an Ivy Bridge system is required to get benefit of this new Trim feature.

Not even my Z68 RAID0 system seems to be supported by the Trim feature of the actual RST 11.5 ROM/Drivers combination (unless I have done a mistake). I have just tested it with the tool HxD. You can see the pictures >here<.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fernando

Not expected, but that seems to be the truth:
Until now only users with an Intel Z77 chipset mainboard have verified, that the Trim command really works within the RAID0 array. So i think, that an Ivy Bridge system is required to get benefit of this new Trim feature.

Not even my Z68 RAID0 system seems to be supported by the Trim feature of the actual RST 11.5 ROM/Drivers combination (unless I have done a mistake). I have just tested it with the tool HxD. You can see the pictures >here<.

---

Hey Fernando !!!

from my tests seems working and as u can see score improves after idle some time, i let the PC dld some stuff and today i took a ASSD test and was really surprised

see this was first run with JUST INSALLED NEW ROM and drivers

http://i.imgur.com/qNh8w.jpg


and some days after....

getting better

http://i.imgur.com/lQYFf.jpg

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...938#post746938
i also assumed zero would be still programmed nand...

if these as ssd results are what you are going by, check out mine, and i'm not using any drivers or an os that would facilitate trim:

night before last, after some heavy storage benching:
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3518/726c.png

afer reboot the next day (i believe the difference would be because of GC, not raid trim...):
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1815/holys.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m.oreilly

if these as ssd results are what you are going by, check out mine, and i'm not using any drivers or an os that would facilitate trim:

night before last, after some heavy storage benching:
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3518/726c.png

afer reboot the next day (i believe the difference would be because of GC, not raid trim...):
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1815/holys.png

---

nice score mate

what is GC ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andressergio

what is GC ?

---

GC stands for "Garbage Collection".

Just for your information: I just have published the following statement within the Guru3D Forum (>LINK<):

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fernando

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arctucas

@Fernando,
Per your comment on the XS forum; it only works on Windows 7 if you have a Z77 board, correct?

---

Until now I know about 3 users with the required RST(e) drivers/ROM version combination, who have published their test results:

• btester aka SSDFreak (board: GIGABYTE Z77X-UD5H, OS: Win7 x64)
  He has published his test results >here<, >here< and >here<.
• andressergio (board: ASUS Maximus 5 Gene, OS: Win7 x64)
  You can find his test results >here<.
• Fernando=me (board: ASUS P8Z68-V, OS: Win7 x64 and Win8 x64 on different RAID partitions)
  I have published my test results >here<. The screenshots were taken while running Win8 x64, but the results with Win7 x64 were exactly the same.

All 3 users have done a quite similar test to verify, if Trim is working within the RAID or not:

1. Copy any file into the root of drive C (= OS partition),
2. Open Drive C with a Hex Editor and search for the Offset and Sector data of the just copied file.
3. Delete the file and empty the Recycle Bin.
4. After some minutes reopen Drive C with the Hex Editor and search again for the test file data (enter the previously noticed Offset/Sector digits)
5. If you see just Hex data 00 00 00 00 00, the Trim resp. Unmap command has cleaned the related SSD cells.

My conclusion: Trim/Unmap obviously works within the RAID0 array unter Win7.
Preconditions:

1. mainboard with an Intel Z77 chipset (it probably will work with other Intel chipsets of the 7-Series too),
2. BIOS with an Intel RAID ROM v11.5.0.1414 and
3. use of the actual Intel RST(e) drivers of the v11.5 series (v11.5.0.1184 or higher).

My own test results show, that Trim/Unmap obviously is not working within the RAID array, if the system has an Intel Z68 chipset (neither on Win7 nor on Win8).

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fernando

Preconditions:

a. mainboard with an Intel Z77 chipset (it probably will work with other Intel chipsets of the 7-Series too)

---

It should be: mainboard with ICH10R southbridge

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by radier

It should be: mainboard with ICH10R southbridge

---

Why that?
Do you know anybody with an ICH10R southbridge, who has verified, that Trim/Unmap is working within his/her RAID0 array?

Z77, Z68, P67, X58 are just few examples of popular chipset that has ICH10R inside.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by radier

Z77, Z68, P67, X58 are just few examples of popular chipset that has ICH10R inside.

---

Please reread, what I have written: Z68 chipsets are not supported by the Trim+RAID0 feature and I dont think, that P67 or X58 are!

Then you are wrong apparently. Z77 is no different than Z68 in terms of SATA controller.

As for now release notes for RST 11.5 WHQL are missing and no official info was given about TRIM in RAID 0.

Your experiments does not prove anything.

BR,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by radier

Then you are wrong apparently. Z77 is no different than Z68 in terms of SATA controller.

As for now release notes for RST 11.5 WHQL are missing and no official info was given about TRIM in RAID 0.

Your experiments does not prove anything.

BR,

---

Chill mate...we are not fighting here just trying to discover what going on with this new ROMS and drivers, a job that intel and others should published clear and cloudy as they did...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m.oreilly

if these as ssd results are what you are going by, check out mine, and i'm not using any drivers or an os that would facilitate trim:

night before last, after some heavy storage benching:
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3518/726c.png

afer reboot the next day (i believe the difference would be because of GC, not raid trim...):
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1815/holys.png

---

just amazing. my GC/non 'trim' results are way more dramatic than any of the so called trim results in this thread...
this morning, system uptime 15 minutes, cup of coffee, and a couple of benches:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/973/dangnb.png

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/5600/dang2.png

100% incompressible test data too...

you guys should be lobbying intel for their intel here. on one hand we have MS saying 'no win7 trim', and intel saying 'raid trim', but not delineating which os they claim trim to be working under, though just because the drivers are for several os do not mean that win7 is in with win 8, unmap wise. trimmed data should not be zeros, it should be ones or 0xFF. i hope intel put out a clearer message as to what they are claiming...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by radier

Then you are wrong apparently. Z77 is no different than Z68 in terms of SATA controller.

---

If there is no difference in terms of SATA Controller, why do the SATA AHCI Controllers have different DeviceID's (DEV_3A22 = "Intel(R) ICH10R SATA AHCI Controller", DEV_1C02 = "Intel(R) Desktop/Workstation/Server Express Chipset SATA AHCI Controller")?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by radier

As for now release notes for RST 11.5 WHQL are missing and no official info was given about TRIM in RAID 0.

---

If you run the RST Console Software of the latest official Intel RST driverpacks and hit "Help" > "Introduction" you can see the required "official info" given by Intel about TRIM in RAID0:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Intel

TRIM
This feature provides support for all pass-through solid-state drives (SSDs) in your storage system that meets the ATA-8 protocol requirements. Also, support is provided for SSDs that are part of a RAID 0 array.

---

Everything clear?

Quote:

---

Your experiments does not prove anything.

---

I trust my own experiments more than any info of a vendor, who primarily wants to earn money.

clear? no. no os is mentioned, and it would rely on the unmap commands sent down. why do you think we are seeing 'scsi' even for single drives? the drivers will pass through an unmap command, but there isn't one from win7.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m.oreilly

why do you think we are seeing 'scsi' even for single drives? the drivers will pass through an unmap command, but there isn't one from win7.

---

Win7 is not able to send the UNMAP command, but the Intel SCSI filter driver iaStorF.sys is able to change the Trim command to an Unmap command. That is the reason why Intel is now using 2 drivers simultaneously (iaStorF+iaStorA.sys), whereas the "normal" Intel MSM and RST drivers always had just 1 single driver named iaStor.sys.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fernando

Win7 is not able to send the UNMAP command, but the Intel SCSI filter driver iaStorF.sys is able to change the Trim command to an Unmap command. That is the reason why Intel is now using 2 drivers simultaneously (iaStorF+iaStorA.sys), whereas the "normal" Intel MSM and RST drivers always had just 1 single driver named iaStor.sys.

---

+1 for this

Any issue with loading the 11.5 rom on an x79 bios?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fernando

Win7 is not able to send the UNMAP command, but the Intel SCSI filter driver iaStorF.sys is able to change the Trim command to an Unmap command. That is the reason why Intel is now using 2 drivers simultaneously (iaStorF+iaStorA.sys), whereas the "normal" Intel MSM and RST drivers always had just 1 single driver named iaStor.sys.

---

where do you get this? quite an assumption. you would need two drivers anyways: trim hint and unmap hint passthrough. single ahci+trim/ahci driver, raid would need unmap, hence the scsi. where are you getting documented info that drivers are 'converting' trim to unmap hints, and the os is oblivious to this? i know some are bandying about the idea of a low stack driver, but this is not taking into consideration the os's part, and i have not seen any working examples of this anywhere on earth documented as working. you are making a rather big assumption, and i would like again to know what you are basing your opinion on. i can find ms docs showing that win7 will not and can not pass unmap, and that it would take the os to have that in it's api, but i can't find any bona fide info re drivers creating unmap out of basic trim hints. please share...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DooRules

Any issue with loading the 11.5 rom on an x79 bios?

---

unless you have a dual bios option that works, i would not try it.

ok, i'll toss out a bone. yes, there have been manufacturers that have demonstrated trim capable raid controllers, but the required windows api was not going to be changed on ms's side...some time passes, and we see win8 getting all perky and including unmap. intel is a big player, as is MS in the now burgeoning solid state storage/server market. it has to be seamless in execution, and with what we got in the pot as players, it may take some more umpf to get 'magic' drivers in place. when we see lsi and areca touting win7, or really, server 2008 r2 unmap passthrough, i'll be a believer al la that win kernel/magic drivers are here.

ok , another bone toss. you have computurd here. sorry for the tug, but you could ask him if areca or lsi are passing on server 2008 r2 unmap drivers. sorry comp, but intel consumer boards running win7 getting raid trim above server class(?) just doesn't sit right...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m.oreilly

unless you have a dual bios option that works, i would not try it.

---

Sure do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m.oreilly

trimmed data should not be zeros, it should be ones or 0xFF

---

So please explain me why on a standard single AHCI SSD it's also 00 00 00 etc. ? ;)

Note that on some SSD like Vertex 4 it's FF FF FF FF etc.

TRIMmed data is generally whatever the controller chooses it to be. Most SSDs do not have a static LBA to physical address mapping scheme like hard drive do .... so what happens is that the SSD actually creates the mapping between LBAs and physical locations when you perform writes. This avoids the read->erase->rewrite operations that caused so many latency problems with old jmicron drives. This means, that if you haven't written to a particular LBA number, then there is nowhere to read it back from. Thus the controller simply creates a fake sector with whatever data it wants (FF or 00)

When you secure erase a drive, or delete files off it with TRIM, you are also eventually removing the LBA mapping for the sectors you are erasing. This means again, that the drive must create a fake sector if you then attempt to read it.

Have you noticed process IAStorDataMgrSvc.exe ?

It is consuming memory step by step.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc HFR

So please explain me why on a standard single AHCI SSD it's also 00 00 00 etc. ? ;)

Note that on some SSD like Vertex 4 it's FF FF FF FF etc.

---

i assume 0x00 is a programmed state. which drives under what conditions report 0x00 as clean nand? i'm hoping you guys have really hit on something here, but i'm just not getting enough documentation that points to what you are claiming. i wish intel would be a little more forthcoming. i don't understand why they wouldn't be, but until they do, i really can't drink the coolaid...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by radier

Have you noticed process IAStorDataMgrSvc.exe ?
It is consuming memory step by step.

---

You are right and we have noticed that already earlier, but this has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, because it is a software issue (since v11.5.1184) and not a driver or RAID ROM one.

Hello everyone!

I have subscribed to this forum and spent one dollar just to inform you there is an updated ROM, version 11.5.0.1582 available!!! :shocked:

I contacted Biostar requiring an update to the OROM for the motherboard of the server of my gaming center. The mobo is T5XE CFX-SLI, P55 chipset. It was abandoned quite some time ago and left with OROM 9.5.x.xxxx. I asked them to updated BIOS so OROM was brought to the most recent version, and they sent me a new BIOS with the mentioned version.

I sent another email asking if 11.5.0.1582 is the latest stable release and they replied saying soquete 1156 mobos are discontinued and that every update is special and beta only, no support. We'll have to wait until Intel updates their own current mobos so we know which OROM is indeed latest. At least this one I offer is more recent.

Now, I don't know how to extract the OROM from the BIOS file, but I give you the link they provided me with so you can extract yourselves. Whomever manages to do extraction, please provide community with public link so everyone can download! Yes, it's OROM 11.5.0.1582 and proof follows by pictures I took during boot. It even works on P55 (soquete 1156) PCH.

I was shocked, astonished, that I got a positive reply, I mean, I'd never ever expect that they'd update the firmware just for me! :rolleyes: OMG! I'm sooooo happy!

Also, there is one thing I noted: they changed recommended strip size for RAID0 arrays. It used to select automatically 128KB, now it chooses per se 16KB. OROM screen below shows 8KB strip, but that's because I used that array with OROM 9.5.x.xxxx before and in my test that's where I achieved maximum performance. I've reformatted the HDD's, now I use 16KB and 16KB NTFS cluster ("unit") size on all partitions.

This is the link:
http://206.108.48.66/temp/Eric/P55DA726.zip

Attachment 128935

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m.oreilly

i assume 0x00 is a programmed state. which drives under what conditions report 0x00 as clean nand? i'm hoping you guys have really hit on something here, but i'm just not getting enough documentation that points to what you are claiming. i wish intel would be a little more forthcoming. i don't understand why they wouldn't be, but until they do, i really can't drink the coolaid...

---

Corsair Force 3 or Intel 330 for example

But like canthearu said it's not clean NAND, it's "clean" LBA ;)

FYI:
I just have tested, if the presence of the new Intel RAID ROM module v11.5.0.1582 does change anything regarding the Trim support of an Intel Z68 chipset RAID0 array.
Result: It doesn't. The sector with the freshly deleted file didn't zeroed out. The original Hex data were still there.

i think you guys are relying on the hex 'results' a little too much, especially with multi drive lun and single/'shared' lba. both drives you mentioned are sandforce based, and with their inherent encryption/lba jiggery pokery, i think you would still be looking at programmed with 00 returned...still not buying it...