ASUS pledges support for AM3+ both for current and future motherboards

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Even though AMD have yet to release their next batch of CPU's with the codename Bulldozer ASUS already is pledging that many of their current AM3-motherboards will support the new AM3+ CPU's through a bios update. They also have a list of upcoming motherboards that also will fully support the CPU's. So if you are in the market for a new AM3-motherboard but want to make sure that it will work fine with the new upcoming CPU's then just check the list to see which motherboards to get from ASUS.

*BIOS Upgradable Supported AM3 models:

AMD 890FX/SB850:

*Crosshair IV Extreme
*Crosshair IV Formula
*M4A89TD PRO/USB3
*M4A89TD PRO
AMD 890GX/SB850:
*M4A89GTD PRO/USB3
*M4A89GTD PRO

**Current BIOS update is a beta release. Please check the ASUS support site for continual updates.

***Upcoming ASUS M5A Series models (AM3+ socket with AMD 8-series chipsets):

AMD 880G
M5A88-V EVO
M5A88-M EVO
M5A88-M
AMD 870
M5A87
AMD 760G
M5A78L
M5A78L LE
M5A78L-M/USB3
M5A78L-M PLUS
M5A78L-M LE
M5A78L-M LX

Link: http://www.bjorn3d.com/news/ASUS_ple...Bjorn3d.com%29

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Nice, now the only difference between AM3 and AM3+ will be DDR3 1866 Support and IOMMU! :clap:

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Originally Posted by Shadov

Nice, now the only difference between AM3 and AM3+ will be DDR3 1866 Support and IOMMU! :clap:

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890FX has IOMMU.

Something is wrong with ASUS' announcement. There is physical difference between AM3+ Zambezi and AM3 motherboards.How do they plan to overcome this?By making users cut of the extra pin from Zambezi chip?? :p:

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Originally Posted by informal

Something is wrong with ASUS' announcement. There is physical difference between AM3+ Zambezi and AM3 motherboards.How do they plan to overcome this?By making users cut of the extra pin from Zambezi chip?? :p:

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by providing upgrade kits to all current MB sales which consists of a very tiny drill bit and map showing you which hole to drill

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Originally Posted by Manicdan

by providing upgrade kits to all current MB sales which consists of a very tiny drill bit and map showing you which hole to drill

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Haven't thought of that, this could work!

:rofl:

Unless AMD changed their mind, again..

It could be that AMD have some troubles (or should i say delayed?) with the 9x chipsets and don't want to delay the BD release? So removing 1 pin (the "blocker") from the cpu is a quick-fix?
And YES i know what JF-AMD has told you earlier in the forums, but hey, that was days ago, this kind of things can switch very fast if needed!

socket <> chipsets

the chipset might be missing a minor feature that can improve efficiency, or a bit of performance, but not compatibility aparently

what agitates me is that boards that have been out for a while, could have been compatible with BD for a while.

how much did asus rev 3.1 change? just that socket with an extra hole? or did the phases change? can current CIV users really just update the bios and drill that hole and have BD direct drop in?

i like the AMD socket compatibility theyve offered, but i would have liked to know a month ago that my 200$ purchase should have been held off for just a hair longer, and i could have bought something decent instead of trying to go cheaper assuming AM3+ wouldnt be out until late spring.

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Originally Posted by nex_73

It could be that AMD have some troubles (or should i say delayed?) with the 9x chipsets and don't want to delay the BD release? So removing 1 pin (the "blocker") from the cpu is a quick-fix?
And YES i know what JF-AMD has told you earlier in the forums, but hey, that was days ago, this kind of things can switch very fast if needed!

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Actually this is the most probable one also because the noobish Fud was rumouring this
http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/i...chipset-issues

this is very strange...or the new rev of MB 890 could be use the AM3+ socket??

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Originally Posted by informal

Something is wrong with ASUS' announcement. There is physical difference between AM3+ Zambezi and AM3 motherboards.How do they plan to overcome this?By making users cut of the extra pin from Zambezi chip?? :p:

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there is no extra pins for the socket (its all am) type its just a key, and i think that the asus boards have a non standard key to make it work. i just looked and on my 720be its got a 4 key spots 2banks of 2 pin and 2 banks of 3 pin but my 890fx m4a89td pro has a key with 4 banks of 2 pins. but then the am3b socket is 942 pins and the am3 is 941

Um, things got stranger.
Official polish asus website:
(translated)
http://translate.googleusercontent.c...XEELm5thMEWAzQ

It clearly states, that CURRENT AM3 motherboards will get AM3+ CPU`s support via bios update.
Although i dont believe it, and think that there probably in HQ was an error of somekind, some bad memo, and it just gets spread around...

its quite possible for them to say it only works on rev3.1 and still call those people "current"

But in that instance, they should call them "current AM3+" motherboards.Rev 3.1 ones are am3+ designated.

EDIT

Got an idea, maybe AMD will launch few SKU`s with physical AM3 support.So they will fit in both sockets.

so here is the msi 990fx
http://www.tweaktown.com/popImg.php?...86_01_full.png

there is a spot (top left) were am3 sockets have a 2 pin key but this one is a 1 pin key one pin lower than the key, on am2/am2+ cpus that spot has a pin there but am3 dose not. so there are keys on the am3 socket that are open on the am3+, so we will need a shot of an am3+ cpu and then the debate will be over, but with this and the asrock and not having different sockets it looks like am3+ will work with am3 boards in some capacity.

and dont forget that there is a fuzion chip for desktops and we dont know what socket it is, so there may be with and without IGP chips that are socketed differently.

A quote from myself.:D

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Originally Posted by Oliverda

Wait a minute. Have we seen an AM3+ CPU? Are we sure that it has that extra pin? I can imagine that the extra "hole" in the socket is only required for the 2nd gen. Bulldozes.

BTW, I don't believe the Asus story until I don't see it as an official announcment from them.

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Neither of the two theories seems plausible, since Llano is going to use socket FM1.
And Komodo (2nd gen bulldozer) will use new socket also (due to the pcie integration and igp).

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Originally Posted by XRL8

Neither of the two theories seems plausible, since Llano is going to use socket FM1.
And Komodo (2nd gen bulldozer) will use new socket also (due to the pcie integration and igp).

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You seem to be completely oblivious to orochi :) XD

I just posted this elsewhere, but if I'm right, it whould clear up the mess:

First have a look at the difference of AM3 and AM3+

http://peecee.dk/uploads/032011/The_missing_pin.jpg

Which in fact does make it physically impossible for a AM3+ CPU, to fit in a AM3 motherboard.

However, current AMD chipsets like the 890, 880, 870, 790, 760- series etc. IS compatible with Zambezi/Bulldozer/FX AM3+ CPU's.

So, what the motherboard manufacturers are currently doing, is fitting AM3+ sockets on existing AM3 motherboards, and calling them a new revision.

To sum up: For a motherboard to support Zambezi/Bulldozer/FX, it will need a AM3+ socket, but not (necceseraly) the new 990FX / 990X chipset.

Generally AM3+ sockets are black, and AM3 sockets are white, so it's actually quite easy to spot which boards are compatible, and which are not.

Just have a look at Gigabytes website, and you'll be able to spot both AM3 and AM3+ sockets on motherboards (confusingly) under the AM3 tab:

http://gigabyte.com/products/list.as...jid=10&p=2&v=2


If you want to check if you board has an AM3+ socket, just look for 3 things:

1) Black socket
2) Written "AM3b" in it
3) Has one less pinhole

number of holes in socket =/= number of pins on cpu - and have any1 here not in the know seen and counted the pins on a bd? ;)
things will clear up soon as i have a feeling both amd and asus has been mailbombed about this =)
fun discussing it meanwhile...

I wonder if uefi is messing with things. I mean they had to try and keep up with the Jones's

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Originally Posted by Glow9

I wonder if uefi is messing with things. I mean they had to try and keep up with the Jones's

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:banana::banana::banana::banana: EFI, u can use a raid partition if for some god forsaken reason u need to boot to a 2.2TB or larger drive or they could make an efi emu on a controller .

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Originally Posted by zanzabar

:banana::banana::banana::banana: EFI, u can use a raid partition if for some god forsaken reason u need to boot to a 2.2TB or larger drive or they could make an efi emu on a controller .

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EFI is the :banana::banana::banana::banana:. :banana::banana::banana::banana: legacy bios systems. EFI all the way! :D

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Originally Posted by Darakian

EFI is the :banana::banana::banana::banana:. :banana::banana::banana::banana: legacy bios systems. EFI all the way! :D

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efi can :banana::banana::banana::banana: my :banana::banana::banana::banana: while it runs its :banana::banana::banana::banana: back to the pile of DOA hardware :banana::banana::banana::banana: pile with HDdvd, laser disk, wimax, cable cards, zip drives and chrome OS netbooks.

efi and its generation serve no benefit to the enthusiast community since u dont need it to boot to gpt except in windows and its missing low level controls that a bios can offer. the only reasons its being used is for drm and since its cheaper since its got no extra licensing on intel chipsets as intel throws it in if u use there chipset

sorry i was having fun with :banana:

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3...ana-799094.jpg
Well I don't understand why it's taking them so long it doesn't seem like AM3's chipsets are really any different than what we have now.
Asrocks AM3 - Northbridge: AMD 880G - Southbridge: AMD SB850 Is there even a need for a new socket?
Look at their AM3+ 880G PRo 3 and look at their AM3 890FX Deluxe 5 same socket.

im guessing that global foundries is having problems ramping up enough production to make the cpus needed for the launch. Also i think that they are trying for a server and consumer launch at the same time so its not really the chipsets but more that they want to launch every thing at the same time but they cannot get 32nm to work right.

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Originally Posted by Mads321

I just posted this elsewhere, but if I'm right, it whould clear up the mess:

First have a look at the difference of AM3 and AM3+

http://peecee.dk/uploads/032011/The_missing_pin.jpg

Which in fact does make it physically impossible for a AM3+ CPU, to fit in a AM3 motherboard.

However, current AMD chipsets like the 890, 880, 870, 790, 760- series etc. IS compatible with Zambezi/Bulldozer/FX AM3+ CPU's.

So, what the motherboard manufacturers are currently doing, is fitting AM3+ sockets on existing AM3 motherboards, and calling them a new revision.

To sum up: For a motherboard to support Zambezi/Bulldozer/FX, it will need a AM3+ socket, but not (necceseraly) the new 990FX / 990X chipset.

Generally AM3+ sockets are black, and AM3 sockets are white, so it's actually quite easy to spot which boards are compatible, and which are not.

Just have a look at Gigabytes website, and you'll be able to spot both AM3 and AM3+ sockets on motherboards (confusingly) under the AM3 tab:

http://gigabyte.com/products/list.as...jid=10&p=2&v=2


If you want to check if you board has an AM3+ socket, just look for 3 things:

1) Black socket
2) Written "AM3b" in it
3) Has one less pinhole

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Sorry no. I don't think you're right. Oliverda got it right - or at least the only possible explanation.

You're partly right though.
AM3+ sockets have an extra pin.
I do not think that motherboard manufacturers are puting AM3+ sockets on AM3 boards and calling it a new revision.
I think the first batch of AM3+ CPUs will have a pin missing.

The reason being no matter how hard Asus try, a BIOS update won't open up a hole for a pin.

If not someone will just clip the pin to see what happens, only a matter of time till someone has an expendable AM3+ cpu.

Well, Asus made it fully official.
http://event.asus.com/2011/mb/AM3_PLUS_Ready/

So im stumped.WTH is goin on.
JF-AMD where are you ? Some clarification is MUCH needed.
As for the chipset, seems like all from 7xx series supports BD too.New Asus Am3+ boards are built on 7xx 8xx and 9xx series chipsets.

Awesome news if so, I don't have to shell out as much for the 1st-gen BD setup since all I'll have to buy is a CPU.

Asus official news:
http://event.asus.com/2011/mb/AM3_PLUS_Ready/

so its clear; zambezi am3+ can be installed on am3 socket; the 1 pin extra key from am3+ socket is for future second bulldozer generation (prevent them to be installed in am3 normal socket);
zambezi i guess will have 939 pins; one more than am3 cpu and the extra pin is on the pin 1 (in the corner); and that will prevent zambezi fit in am2 socket

Some more info from sweclockers
Care to comment JF-AMD?

anyone think its possible that the M4A88TD could be bios upgradable if the M4A890s are?

yes, almost all current AM3 boards can. but ASUS only updates boards >$100 -.-

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Originally Posted by w0mbat

yes, almost all current AM3 boards can. but ASUS only updates boards >$100 -.-

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some of those 880G boards, especially mine, are >100$. and it would be really easy to update 6 more boards with one more bios change and some copy/pasting

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Originally Posted by nex_73

Some more info from sweclockers
Care to comment JF-AMD?

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So the processors don't have that extra pin at all?? :confused: :confused: :confused:

@Manicdan: but maybe not all AM3+ CPUs would run, cause they need a better powermanagement.

@DarthShader: AM3 has 941 pins but AM3 cpus have only 938, so u got room for the extra one.

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Originally Posted by DarthShader

So the processors don't have that extra pin at all?? :confused: :confused: :confused:

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Only the ones "in the know" knows ;)
that extra pin-hole on the am3+ socket might just be for future-proof bd rev2?
or as i stated before - amd has made a quick-fix just not to delay the bd-release?
socket pin-holes =/= cpu-pins
ex: am3 socket = 941 pin-holes, am3 cpu = 938 pins
Some more info FlanK3r found

its stressful for me, need June, now :D ! What about performance? Hope, this will not be compromis for lower performance...

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...3&postcount=80

Not all of them were needed, so not all of them were properly routed.Thats reasonable.
But why JF-AMD stated that it WONT FIT and that bulldozer REQUIRED new different motherboards.
Im sure electrical reqs and specs for BD were known to AMD at least year ago.That would mean simple memo to the mb manufacturers urging them to properly route all am3 pins would solve all this mess.Yet, they said back then that BD "in spite of their tries" just wont work in AM3,and new redesigned socket was NEEDED.
I smell bull:banana::banana::banana::banana: coming from AMD.It looks like any properly designed mb would work with BD, just as i thought it should.

Sure any properly designed am3 mb would work but only if the 2 extra am3 socket pin-holes are routed by default, as done only on the ones on ASUS list.
So it's easer for AMD to go out and say what they have said. Probably it was to late by the time they found out, and to many mb:s where already manufactured & sold to the market...

They didnt "found out" ,they are the cpu manufacturer, they KNEW from day one.Or do you believe AMD doesnt know their own specifications :/.
For one bulldozer is a chip that was in development many years.And from the start of AM3 socket it was supposed to be compatible with it.
However about a year ago, things changed.All of a sudden AMD does a 180 turn, saying it absolutely needs new socket/chipset combo ie, new mainboards.
There wasnt there anything about the fact that not all mb makers properly route all pin sockets.
If they have just put a list of required specs for BD back then ,all mainboards at the market currently would be already BD compatible, not just the random ones.
Not all AM2 boards were compatible with AM2+ cpus, but AMD back then didnt REQUIRE new socket/chipset combo for them.
All this looks shady at best.Awaiting some JF-AMD comment, or better yet official AMD one ,but AMD latelt is more secretive than CIA. So probably they wont issue anything.

One can only speculate. As often what is communicated to partners and heck even internal in a company could vary. You tell them what they need to know right there and then, you don't tell them everything...(as we know things could very fast change)
And yes i know the story behind bd development... And no i don't think all am3 boards out there could cope with the bd. am3 specs are met, but on the ones on asus list the specs are higher (better vrms and electronics etc etc)
as you said - it was about a year ago things changed, don't you think the mb makers already had the am3 boards ready by then (design, bios etc)? why delay the thuban/am3 launch waiting for bd/am3+ specs not set in stone then?

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Originally Posted by XRL8

But why JF-AMD stated that it WONT FIT and that bulldozer REQUIRED new different motherboards.

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JF-AMD stated : "Bulldozer is ONLY supported in AM3+ sockets. This comes straight from the desktop guys."

he never said it WONT FIT; only is not supported

Great news for those with Asus boards :up:
But cant blame other manufactures for not including, at the time, unneeded pcb tracing. If that info is true, that is :)

I'm pretty sure ASUS knows what is telling on their official website. They must by now ran DVT or even production samples of BD through their boards. I'm happy I've went with CH IV form my last upgrade because I will be able to just update CPU in the near future! Even if support of BD will not be perfect on AM3 boards it's great to spread your upgrade cost more evenly across few months :up:

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Originally Posted by nex_73

... And no i don't think all am3 boards out there could cope with the bd. am3 specs are met, but on the ones on asus list the specs are higher (better vrms and electronics etc etc)
as you said - it was about a year ago things changed, don't you think the mb makers already had the am3 boards ready by then (design, bios etc)? why delay the thuban/am3 launch waiting for bd/am3+ specs not set in stone then?

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Im not saying all AM3 boards could.
Between a year ago and now, there were many new MB made.They all could be BD ready now,if steps had been taken a year ago.AMD said it wasnt possible.It is.
AM3 was launched WAY before thuban.And thuban launch doesnt have anything to do with this.Thuban is compatible even with AM2+ boards.And AM3 with or without all pins connected.
Mainboard development isnt particurarly hard when you have the base already done, and just have to do new revision to met some new specs (point in case, gigabyte and theirs rev 3.1 am3+).
I have a feeling AMD wanted to go with new sockets/chipsets, but got some major resistance from asus on this, maybe the rumoured delay of the 990fx has something to do with it also.

In essence, all this shift to BD compatible boards could be done long ago.

JF-AMD stated BD NEEDS AM3+ SOCKET here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...85#post4777285

Asus claims BD will fit in AM3.

And a post here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...40#post4771640

Sneaky, "that will not be supported", ok, i understand now.So its possible but AMD wont "support" that.Sheesh.

Although here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...99#post4765499

He clearly states that the thing asus just announced ,isnt true.

Its a mess, AMD should give a press release in response to ASUS claims.

Maybe JF knows nothing about desktop :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Spreader

JF-AMD stated : "Bulldozer is ONLY supported in AM3+ sockets. This comes straight from the desktop guys."

he never said it WONT FIT; only is not supported

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I think he told the truth, just not the whole story ;)

Everybody (well, almost) is running circles around the pins of AM3 and AM3+ socket, but what about the processor?
- Did we see any of them?
- Did we have a picture of them?
- Did someone counted the pins on them?
:)

everybody, who dont understand look again at KINC info. Its clear now ,-)
AM3 socket=940 contact for pins (standart only 938 activ), AM3 CPU = 938 pins
AM3+ socket=942 contact for pins, AM3+ CPU= 940 pins (Kinc info)

so...ASUS knew something about future, because in motherboard list are only top boards with SB850 and better PWM. And diferent can be only one, at this boards are all socket contacts activ to the board (=all 940 AM3 pins)

Was asus the only brand of mobo that supports this upgrade?
What about gigabyte, aka the alternative board's...

Gigabyte and the others have not routed (activated) the extra 2 pin-holes needed on the AM3 socket. So yes - ASUS is the only one (as we know of yet...)

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Originally Posted by NEOAethyr

Was asus the only brand of mobo that supports this upgrade?
What about gigabyte, aka the alternative board's...

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Only Asus boards so far afaik. Giga has made the needed changes on their new rev boards, so a BIOS update will not be enough if you have an earlier rev.

Asrock have hinted at supporting AM3+ CPUs on some of their highend AM3 boards with the 890FX Deluxe5 so don't be surprised if the Deluxe4 and 3 get the same treatment. What exactly they decide to do though remains to be seen.

but otherwise is better to have AM3+ board with 900 chipset. All features Zambezi only at this boards think. And maximal performance :)

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Originally Posted by Spreader

JF-AMD stated : "Bulldozer is ONLY supported in AM3+ sockets. This comes straight from the desktop guys."

he never said it WONT FIT; only is not supported

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Exactly. Probably Bulldozer and AM3 is not a validated/recommended system by AMD. IMHO nobody forbids the mobo manufacturers to make support for existing AM3 solution if they can.

Not to mention you most likely lose your CPU warranty the moment you put Zambezi in AM3 motherboad.

So it's like CPU cores unlocking? Wasn't Asus the first one to bring that btw?

a speculation by me:

http://prohardver.hu/dl/upc/2011-03/...socket_am3.png

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Originally Posted by FreeRadical

ditto query. but slightly rephrasing it.

if its only the bios support, and the pins are compatible with am3 boards, will it be possible like am2+ boards to just transplant an updated agesa module and cpucodes into an am3 bios from an am3+/am3r2 one.
I ask because I did it myself for my am2 board for which the manufacturer didn't provide a bios for phenom/athlon II/phenom II support and can do it again if so.

[rant]
Most of us enthusiasts who are loyal to amd either are old school folks who stick with it cause its a more vfm platform or either have no money to buy new boards every now and then.
I know a lot of amd fans here in India (including me) who are so disappointed with this debacle. Its like 939 all over again :(
[/rant]

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

I know I have posted this exact text somewhere else, and I think I might have been replying to you:

AM3 boards support only AM3 processors
AM3+ boards support AM3 processors and AM3+ processors

There is no bios upgrade or other magic pixie dust that will change this.

To do bulldozer in AM3 sockets would have compromised the possible performance on the processor and I am pretty sure that none of you wanted that.

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:p

Source (discussion 6 months ago) -> Way ahead of you folks :rotf::cool:
09-26-2010, 03:23 PM

Yeah, i think JF didnt know everything about this topic.On few occasions he was wrong,and/or not exactly fully truthful.
Seems like AM3+ chips will fit just fine in AM3 board physically, and as for the working, its atleast possible on some of them.
Im not sure AGESA transplant will be enough tho, seems like there are two pins which most manufactureres simply didnt connect on their AM3 boards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by informal

Not to mention you most likely lose your CPU warranty the moment you put Zambezi in AM3 motherboad.

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And who's going to know? :ROTF:

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Originally Posted by XRL8

Yeah, i think JF didnt know everything about this topic.On few occasions he was wrong,and/or not exactly fully truthful.

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I will openly admit to being wrong when I am wrong. However I am not untruthful.

I say what I am allowed to say and when I am wrong I admit it.

AMD will only support BD in AM3+ sockets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XRL8

Yeah, i think JF didnt know everything about this topic.On few occasions he was wrong,and/or not exactly fully truthful.
Seems like AM3+ chips will fit just fine in AM3 board physically, and as for the working, its atleast possible on some of them.
Im not sure AGESA transplant will be enough tho, seems like there are two pins which most manufactureres simply didnt connect on their AM3 boards.

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no, its exactly this:
Zambezi is real AM3+ CPU only! But this exception at ASUS boards is as "functionality hack" AM3 socket to AM3+, because 2 needed pins are activ here form beigining! Its very diferent, it will be only far-sighted move from ASUS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

I will openly admit to being wrong when I am wrong. However I am not untruthful.

I say what I am allowed to say and when I am wrong I admit it.

AMD will only support BD in AM3+ sockets.

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right, this is exactly saying. From ASUS is only "hack" :). And think, AM3+ and 990FX will be better in performance and P states.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

I will openly admit to being wrong when I am wrong. However I am not untruthful.
I say what I am allowed to say and when I am wrong I admit it.
AMD will only support BD in AM3+ sockets.

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I said you were not knowing everything AND/OR not being fully honest.
Cause i dont know.
You either didnt know,or you knew and said otherwise.

What it however strictly shows, is that you wont say anything that is not in line of current AMD policy on said subject.I understand that.Other people should too.

Well were you wrong ?It seems you clearly were wrong with statements that there is no way AM3+ cpu will work on AM3 board (and yes ,you said that).
You have to understand too, that when you say "AMD will not support AM3+ cpus on the AM3 socket" to everyone that isnt a cynic means it wont happen and is not possible.Its a gray area of telling the truth that isnt the whole story.Most of people here me included understood your statements as:
BD is so much different from our previous cpus we werent able to make it compatible with AM3 socket.

And that,is just not true as we have learned.
It means your every statement has to be looked at every angle to make sure it means what it looks like at first glance.Which means that most of it cant be taken "as is".

I dont like when companies treat me as a sheeple.Intel is doing it constantly, AMD less so.But in recent 2-3 years, its more secretive than the CIA.I cant plan ahead my purchases, cause i dont know anything until its DONE.Intel is much better at this,downside is that you mostly know that youre gonna be screwed, just in advance ;-).
If i would know for some time that i could buy Am3 board that will support BD , i would do so.Now i wont.I`l just wait and see ,cause i know that current SB mainboards will support ivybridge.AMD wont tell anyone anything about the future that AM3+ has (if any).
If asus produces mainboards compatible with am3+ for some time now.Everyone could.And thats a failure on AMD`s part.And we probably will never know as to "why".

XRL8 If asus produces mainboards compatible with am3+ for some time now.Everyone could.And thats a failure on AMD`s part.And we probably will never know as to "why". :
dont agree...could maybe, but not done :)...Only a few this models from ASUS is "hacking" at simillary somethink as AM3+ socket (Am3 with all activ pins!). This is not so simply. Example, why is it only at highend boards with SB850 ,-)?

You cant call it "hacking" when you dont know how its done.Not supported doesnt mean they have to do some workarounds.We dont know.
As for the Sb850 requirement,its a MAYBE.Asus will introduce mainboards even with a 760G northbridge,but we dont know yet with what southbridge theyre gonna be paired up.
And even if.Thats not a bad thing if all Sb850 mainboards were compatible with AM3+ cpus, now would it ?
As to why only asus ones were built properly, i dont know either.Maybe some others are too.Or maybe AMD wasnt interested in getting backwards compatibility so it wasnt part of the standard.Or maybe mainboards manufacturers did it on purpose to sell more units.Or maybe thats all true.
One thing is for sure, if AMD would sent new AM3 specs to mb manufacturers and enforced them through some press release.All MB makers would have to comply or be hit with lower sales due to less features.

if they wont support my M4A88TD-V, then they better have a good reason.

I think it'll be funny if they add support for the am2+ boards with nvidia chipsets.
Then I'de say wtf dfi lol...

They added support for the 1090t for those older boards so...
I think that would be neat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NEOAethyr

I think it'll be funny if they add support for the am2+ boards with nvidia chipsets.
Then I'de say wtf dfi lol...

They added support for the 1090t for those older boards so...
I think that would be neat.

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that cant happen since there is no DDR2 controller in BD

:), that's the same thing people said before the 1090t came out.
This time around though it's not a big deal to me.

They redid the Memory controller in bulldozer because the DDR2 part dragged the quality of the DDR3 down. This time around they put a good redesigned DDR3 controller in the Bulldozer to get better memory controller. On my 720BE it was the memory controller that failed and took my mobo with it during a bios update. Also they didnt have to put a DDR2 controller in BD because its not going to be used in any board with DDR2.

Nothing about AMD 790FX or Crosshair III ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XRL8

I said you were not knowing everything AND/OR not being fully honest.
Cause i dont know.
You either didnt know,or you knew and said otherwise.

What it however strictly shows, is that you wont say anything that is not in line of current AMD policy on said subject.I understand that.Other people should too.

Well were you wrong ?It seems you clearly were wrong with statements that there is no way AM3+ cpu will work on AM3 board (and yes ,you said that).
You have to understand too, that when you say "AMD will not support AM3+ cpus on the AM3 socket" to everyone that isnt a cynic means it wont happen and is not possible.Its a gray area of telling the truth that isnt the whole story.Most of people here me included understood your statements as:
BD is so much different from our previous cpus we werent able to make it compatible with AM3 socket.

And that,is just not true as we have learned.
It means your every statement has to be looked at every angle to make sure it means what it looks like at first glance.Which means that most of it cant be taken "as is".

I dont like when companies treat me as a sheeple.Intel is doing it constantly, AMD less so.But in recent 2-3 years, its more secretive than the CIA.I cant plan ahead my purchases, cause i dont know anything until its DONE.Intel is much better at this,downside is that you mostly know that youre gonna be screwed, just in advance ;-).
If i would know for some time that i could buy Am3 board that will support BD , i would do so.Now i wont.I`l just wait and see ,cause i know that current SB mainboards will support ivybridge.AMD wont tell anyone anything about the future that AM3+ has (if any).
If asus produces mainboards compatible with am3+ for some time now.Everyone could.And thats a failure on AMD`s part.And we probably will never know as to "why".

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Can you tell us some good reason why AMD has to lie about it. I mean if there is a full support for Bulldozer on AM3 board it would only sell many more Bulldozers, which is win situation for AMD since they need better market penetration. It would have also sell many more AMD Phenoms if there was such support and there was no need to wait for the AM3+ boards, so it would be pretty stupid for AMD to lie about it.

The ASUS BETA BIOS for some mobo is hack and nobody knows how well it will work.

So just maybe you should take it easy with your accusations about lying and the other speculations.

its not lie. AMD support AM3+ for Zambezi. Its hard to say, but AM3 Crosshair IV Formula is technically not the same as example AM3 board GA890FXA-UD5. Looks, its better now making boards with right AM3+ socket than modify AM3 in new revisions others board with +2 next activ pins in socket. Ths ASUS boards are only one exception of AM3 boards. So, Zambezi is still AM3+ CPU.

Am I the only one here who has gone through more motherboards than cpus over the years?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

I'm I the only one here who has gone through more motherboards than cpus over the years?

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Same here.

At any rate I'll be getting a new mobo for Bulldozer since I don't want to use DDR2 anymore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

I'm I the only one here who has gone through more motherboards than cpus over the years?

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Asus M2A-VM (690G chipset AM2 socket) started with Athlon X2 3800+, now have Phenom X3 8450 and was thinking about upgrading soon to Athlon X4 640, but found out that DVI have problems with high res monitors, so probably will wait for Buldozer

Quote:

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So just maybe you should take it easy with your accusations about lying and the other speculations.

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Great to take things out of context right ?
JF said it isnt possible, but it is.So he didnt know it could be done.I said EITHER one or the other, and im pretty sure he just didnt knew.
On a side note, if its pin compatible with the socket, and runs on the same chipset.Its hardly "a hack".You would have to call AM2 compatibility with am2+ processors "a hack" also.
Only difference is last time it was offical AMD policy and now it isnt, which is a not so nice move from amd.
I guess if you see competitor doing it all the time and cashing huge amounts of money ,you think "why bother".

The most important thing to me is the fact that you dont need 9xx series chipset at all.From the point when electrical requirements for BD were set, we could be getting ALL AM3+ compatible boards.And we didnt, thats a fail.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XRL8

The most important thing to me is the fact that you dont need 9xx series chipset at all.From the point when electrical requirements for BD were set, we could be getting ALL AM3+ compatible boards.And we didnt, thats a fail.

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Fail is putting it into very very nice way. I'd use much stronger words if my mobo wasn't in the asus compatibility list (worst case scenario it won't fall as badly in price as other am3 mobos).

Is it possible that this compatibility that most people won't take advantage of anyways come at the cost of progress?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

Is it possible that this compatibility that most people won't take advantage of anyways come at the cost of progress?

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No.Because AMD has not made any effort to do it.So nothing held them back.

wtf??? This is confusion now...
http://hothardware.com/News/Mud-In-T...M3-Compatible/

yep all we can do is play the waiting game :(

Seems pretty simple to me.. Asus has magic powers and can remove pins from processors with a bios flash Durh..


Seriously though the new revision may be with am3+ socket.. So therefore would fit... Ye it may run bulldozer cpus's.. It might even run them to a satisfactory standard. But 10000000000% that it will NOT run it to it's true potential performance levels due to being a new arch.

Seriously stop being cheap and get a new mobo and stop arguing over something so small. I really don't get this thread.

@Flanker: What is there to be confused about? We know the answer already. The 940 (or 941?) pin AM3+ cpu will physically fit in the 941 pinhole AM3 socket. However the extra 2 (or 3?) pinholes needed to be activated for it to work on the AM3 socket is only routed on the 6 models in Asus list, as all the others only have 938 (am3 cpu) pinholes activated (routed).
I can't understand how that website missed this...
And as stated many times before: Socket pinholes =/= cpu pins

Yeah, hothardware didn't really add any more info, just did some speculating. The six Asus boards supports AM3+ CPU's, that's not the same thing as they follow the AM3+ standard.

no, have right, buw why webistes changing it in stories :(...

socket=/= CPU pins
AM3 socket has 941pins CPU for it 938 (Phenoms II)
AM3+ socket has 942 pins download at "942 SOCKET User Guide_Rev A (NXPowerLite.pdf"
AM3+ CPU Zambezi has lower than 942 pins ,-)

This is very likely to be a situation where ASUS (and other) manufacturers are looking to boost sales of current stocks of motherboards. By claiming them to be compatible with future processors, they can get a number of earlier sales of the current high end boards and make a nice profit. AMD had no intention of moving that direction due to the trade offs, and by making announcements, ASUS may be trying to force AMD's hand in the matter to help them pull it off rather than face a marketing debacle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Michaelius

Fail is putting it into very very nice way. I'd use much stronger words if my mobo wasn't in the asus compatibility list (worst case scenario it won't fall as badly in price as other am3 mobos).

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Everyone's a critic :rolleyes:. I'd prefer my Crosshair IV formula to be compatible with a CPU 3 generations from now. They must have an idea of the requirements, right? Shouldn't they have anticipated this and built it into AM3? The exaggeration shows my point: schedules are schedules, and if specs are finalized allowing for appropriate changes to a socket, AMD might have been able to do what they did for C32 and G34. On the other hand, a delay wouldn't have been good for sales or the bottom line, so they did what they did. They delayed the server sockets for months to allow for the change, because it was absolutely necessary. 99% of the consumers won't be looking to drop in a new processor into their motherboard. They can't always cater to their small but increasingly vocal minority of people like us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xVeinx

This is very likely to be a situation where ASUS (and other) manufacturers are looking to boost sales of current stocks of motherboards. By claiming them to be compatible with future processors, they can get a number of earlier sales of the current high end boards and make a nice profit. AMD had no intention of moving that direction due to the trade offs, and by making announcements, ASUS may be trying to force AMD's hand in the matter to help them pull it off rather than face a marketing debacle.



Everyone's a critic :rolleyes:. I'd prefer my Crosshair IV formula to be compatible with a CPU 3 generations from now. They must have an idea of the requirements, right? Shouldn't they have anticipated this and built it into AM3? The exaggeration shows my point: schedules are schedules, and if specs are finalized allowing for appropriate changes to a socket, AMD might have been able to do what they did for C32 and G34. On the other hand, a delay wouldn't have been good for sales or the bottom line, so they did what they did. They delayed the server sockets for months to allow for the change, because it was absolutely necessary. 99% of the consumers won't be looking to drop in a new processor into their motherboard. They can't always cater to their small but increasingly vocal minority of people like us.

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Yes you do exaggerate, thats why it is of no relevance.
C32 Socket launched before the AM3.So i dont know what you tried to imply here.
New sockets will be LGA and will be using pcie on cpu.So thats why you cant expect them to have compatibility.DDR4 comes into play later on too.
Thats understandable then.
Again ,c32 launched before am3.So no delay.However were not even talking about whole AM3 lineup compatibility from the get go.But there was OBVIOUSLY a point in past when AMD knew exactly the specs needed for BD to operate.And instead upgrading spec reqs for mainboard makers.They went the "we need new chipset and socket thing" rhetoric.
Which was dubious from the start, as there was no real reason to go this way.AMD`s HTT links approach makes the socket kind of like pciexpress.
And moreover we learned that AM3+ doesnt use faster HT implementation.
9xx chipset seems to be pretty much the same as 8xx.
And ,just like most AMD processors for almost 10 years after the HTT implementation ,even older chipsets will work with BD (asus announcing Mainboards on 7xx series chipsets).
Only sensible difference between Phenom II`s and BD seems PLATFORM wise, seems to be what kinc said, BD`s use all of the pins on AM3, while PHII didnt.Thats a problem for older boards, and pretty much only reason why they wont work with BD.As someone already pointed out, it is connected (most probably) to the new turbocore 2.0.A nice feature, but not absolutely needed one.And has nothing to do with pure ipc of the cpu.
As to catering to the "small" number of people.I strongly believe that every enthusiast makes much bigger impact than he himself.I buy and recommend hardware for around 100 people.If your enthusiast which works in corporate IT, you manage thousands.
And even if were small ,that doesnt mean we shouldnt be trying to get whats good for us CONSUMERS.Defending speechless and gutless corporations seems absurd to me.
Im all for technology advancement.Im not for careless overproduction of goods.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XRL8

C32 Socket launched before the AM3.

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It was the other way around, AM3 came first.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AM3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_C32

AMD knew what was needed in the server sockets in order to make them support BD.
Their 800 chipsets was launched pretty much at the same time, in retrospect it looks they had a reason, and a chance, to launch AM3+ with the new chipsets last year.
But it seems like AMD realized the AM3+ needed even more changes a bit too late for a 2010 launch.

Yes youre right about socket launch dates, ive read an article on anandtech and read the date in wrong order.They were few months in between tho,and server side always needs more time.
It doesnt change the fact that AMD knew what it needed for a long time.And AM3+ boards (the official ones, not even the asus AM3) are almost exactly the same.
They use existing chipset ,on existing boards with just a new revision.It is not a big overhaul.Looks more like cosmetic change.And if what kinc said is true.
Not even that, just using properly the existing AM3 infrastructure.
If AMD would care, they could do infrastructure preview, on why and how.But they wont.
They could do a press release.They wont.
Well, until someone high up somewhere makes some comment.We wont know anything more.So there is no clear answer right now if or how much amd screwed up with this socket thing.
And if somebody thinks its all fine and dandy, quick recap.

AMD=AM3 will support BD
AMD=Unfortunately AM3 will not support BD because we want maximum performance, new socket and chipset with backwards compatibility.
JF-AMD=Theres no way BD could work on AM3 socket (no magic pixie dust)
Asus=Well, we have new bioses for Am3+ cpus for our recent boards.
JF-AMD=AMD doesnt support AM3+ cpus on AM3 socket
Asus=We`re gonna build BD boards even on 7xx chipsets
Gigabyte=Were using existing boards with new socket and adding 0.1 revision to support BD.
AMD users=confusion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XRL8

AMD=AM3 will support BD

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I don't remember that, might be just missed it. What I saw in 2009 presentation - some mysterious AM3r2. Could somebody really point at that said by AMD?

For rest things - JUST WAIT... Two months left only ))

Well at the time there were many snippets about this.
Thats one:
http://tech.icrontic.com/files/2009/...op_roadmap.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AM3#Socket_AM3.2B

Quote:

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...Contrary to initial design goals, "Zambezi" won't support AM3: AMD claims it's the only way to deliver its full potential...

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I would say that the new socket is in wake of the fact that mobo manufacturers did not fully connect the whole grid for AM3. Leaving a vary large number of older generation AM3 boards incapable of running BD like they wanted. Because of this to lessen the "Why isn't it working" complaints they developed a new socket that would work off the bat so that we don't have those issues. I see this as a support minded change because the manufacturers saved money and did not fully connect the AM3 socket pin holes. Would you think if they went through with the AM3 plan it would be a logistical nightmare.

Just think, we still have ~80-120 days left of speculation. :rolleyes:

It is true that the motherboard makers know all about what they can & can't do with bulldozer. Some of those leaked out that their boards could support a AM3+ CPU.

AMD has said nothing officially, one way or the other about this in any press release that I can find, and I doubt they will until launch date.

JFAMD has made it very clear that he is NOT talking on behalf of AMD, and thus you can't infer that he is. Check his sig.

Did I mention we still have ~80-120 days left of speculation ? :rolleyes:
:shakes:

XRL8: this is so old! 2009, 1.5 year old info. ANd still, AM3+ is AM3 in revision 2 :), they dont say lie

@SOC Admiral

AM2/AM2+ Compatibility with AM3 chips wasnt a sure one either on many boards.But it went a lot better because AMD made it part of they policy,so mainboard makers knew they should do whats asked of them or face user rage.If asus could do it, everyone could.And probably with a lot more supported mainboards.
But you make a good point on one of the reasons why they chose not to.Its just that i see it as a bad move.

@Kobaltrock

I`ve never inferred JF AMD talks on behalf AMD, moreover he only talks what is official AMD policy so theres no problem really.He must have been badly informed by the desktop guys (because he works in servers) and that was the reason for such a strong comment (the pixie dust bit).He rarely goes into detail and more often uses not so precise wording.As in example "it isnt supported", can mean everything really, and informs only of the fact that AMD does not take into account such possibility as its not part of their policy.

@Flank3r

I know thats old old roadmap, i was showing it to SEA as he asked if AMD ever had plans for BD around AM3 socket.It had.It changed about a year/year and a half ago.

As for the speculation bit.If Asus delivered bios for BD`s.That means ES`s are in the wild now at last.And theres at least possibility of getting screenshots of BD working on for example crosshair IV :-), so maybe its gonna be less than 120days.