Sleeving Problem. What to do with the Capacitor?

Okay, So I am trying to start sleeving today and when I cut my first PCI-E cable open, there is this big capacitor attached to it. What am I suppose to do with it? I suppose they are by pass capacitors to help the system stable. What should I do with it? Take them out and cut a hole on the sleeve and put the back in after (That can't look nice). Anyway, help please.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/...6b395683_b.jpg

I even cut my finger when I see the thing... :(

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4023/...4d50ed2a_b.jpg

What PSU has caps in the wire???? WFT????? Never seen that, looks like they forgot something in the PSU.

Odd............

It is Silverstone strider plus... There new PSU

its made by enhance...to make their power supplies short..they put the caps on the cables..

antec tp1200 - enhance
silverstone strider plus series - enhance too

What about using heatshrinks of correct dimensions for the cables (black heatshrinks on both sides of that capasitor)- and a suitable heatshrink for the capasitor ? And after you have shrunk the heatshrink over the capasitor slide the two on the cables over both ends for the capasitor heatshrink and shrink them ? Might be that you will have to solder off the capasitor ?

One other guy gave me a excellent tip - wrap the cables with electrical tape of the same color as the sleeving before you do the sleevingjob. This will hide the color of the cables shining through the sleeving.

Right now I am thinking about return the PSU since it's bought within the week if there is not good solution.

If you want a really clean sleeving job, you probably won't be able to use that PSU. Will the part of the wire with the cap be visible?

+1, dont remove these caps, jopnnyguru showed taht its BAD.

uhh well of course he will have to solder it back on again, tought it were so obvious I didn't mention it... :)

For the best look (cable sleeve>heatshrink around the capacitor>cable sleeve)

http://www.dreamwarecomputers.com/im..._pciecable.jpg

My corsair hx850 has something similar to that at the end of the cabling of the pci-e cables.

Does the cap need to be in that precise location?. . .perhaps relocate it to somewhere else in the sleeve where it will be hidden (like behind the MoBo or under a mid panel)?

You can use an extension and hide the other part.

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Does the cap need to be in that precise location?. . .perhaps relocate it to somewhere else in the sleeve where it will be hidden (like behind the MoBo or under a mid panel)?

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If it only needs to be attached to the wire, why not reinstall it inside the PSU?

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Originally Posted by Bei Fei

You can use an extension and hide the other part.

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+1 to this.

its there to cut down on noise... and if you put it down the line you'll allow that much more cable for noise to be introduced back into the system...

either buy a diff psu or be happy that youve got good stuff and heatshrink over it and continue sleeving.

To turn tables a bit, should I be doing this mod to my powersupply???

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Originally Posted by Wolf132

My corsair hx850 has something similar to that at the end of the cabling of the pci-e cables.

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If the HX850 is the same as the HX1000, those "shields" on the end are not attached with wires to the PSU ... they are just glued over the group of PCI-E wires. They can be removed by cutting them off, with no detriment as far as I've seen.

Different kettle of fish on the new Strider. Someone needs to be the guinea pig to try re-positioning them / figuring out how to sleeve (it won't be me ;)).

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Originally Posted by shazza

If the HX850 is the same as the HX1000, those "shields" on the end are not attached with wires to the PSU ... they are just glued over the group of PCI-E wires. They can be removed by cutting them off, with no detriment as far as I've seen.

Different kettle of fish on the new Strider. Someone needs to be the guinea pig to try re-positioning them / figuring out how to sleeve (it won't be me ;)).

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What shazza said.. this is a whole different horse here. All you have to do is work around it on the HX850.

The cap is also there to help with heavy load surges. It will provide the "instant" power when needed helping to maintain the 12V integrity. The closer to the power draw the better!

I would just not uni-sleeve that cable. Just use some black electrical tape, and some sleeving large enough to go over the cap. if you pull it tight, It won't look that bad. I did it on my Corsair HX1000 as I didn't want to remove the extra 2 wires on the the PCI-E connector. I just folded that connector back on the wire and sleeved over it.

Its not the best looking thing, but it isn't the worst either. :)

edit:

look at the black cable. You can see the bludge right before the ziptie.

http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/t...9/P1000514.jpg

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Originally Posted by Bei Fei

The cap is also there to help with heavy load surges. It will provide the "instant" power when needed helping to maintain the 12V integrity. The closer to the power draw the better!

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Best answer I've seen, I'd buy that. They stay where they are then. :D

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Originally Posted by Bei Fei

The cap is also there to help with heavy load surges. It will provide the "instant" power when needed helping to maintain the 12V integrity. The closer to the power draw the better!

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So would that allow better overclocking?:rofl:

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Originally Posted by Alexandr0s

So would that allow better overclocking?:rofl:

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No, but it will help if a sudden change in power comes down the cable (touch wood, not sure about this)

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Originally Posted by Kanzy

It is Silverstone strider plus... There new PSU

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I just ordered one of these today to replace my PC&Power 750W Silencer... Now I am wondering if I should call and change that order to a different power supply. I like what Miller did with his cables, I have some extra SATA Sleeving so maybe I will try that. Where along the cable does this start?

I don't see why you couldnt do what Charles did on Daniels murdermod where he did the large single sleeve over the pci express cables with a big heatshrink.

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4907/cabler.jpg

Maybe putting it/that section of cable in its own small box would look right? and if, as in the pic above you run 2 cables maybe the box can hold both?.....not sure what box though...black/hidden? shiny/feature?

I got an old 1 farad cap at home somewhere, from my car stereo days. Sleeve that to the end of your cable, if you can fit it in your pc, and you'll won't have to worry about huge current surges :p:

edit: In case you never seen a 1 farid cap. Here's a random pic from the internet http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:v...rangler007.jpg

Thanks for all the responses, Here are couple things I had in mind

First, I think BeiBei got the answer right, the cap are meant to be there to help provide a stable power supply, but the thing is this cap is only on all the PCI-E cables, none on the cpu power or 24pin, what I am concerned about is that I think since they the power itself short using new design but somehow during the testing they found out that there are unstable voltage on the PCI-E output, then it is cheaper to add caps on the wire rather than put it inside the PSU. In general, remove the cap would be a bad idea could lead to insuffient power or a big ripple voltage could damage the video card.

As of how to sleeve it, here is another picture to help people see where is the thing at
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/...91b3e61e02.jpg

As you can see from the picture, the cap it's acturally little further away from the cable end, about twice more of the tube on a Corsair HX, which means it would require a long heatshrink and even thou, it would still be ugly looking. And of course this is gonna be much more big and long than the Charle's murdermod.

Here is a picture shows how it compared to a Corsair HX1000 PCI-E cable

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2714/...28f36a3cc8.jpg

If I try to use an extender or not uni sleeve those two, the problem comes down to the cap is between a top wire and bottom wire and they are kind crossed through other wires, which means I can't uni sleeve other part either.

For now, I am getting an old silverstone ST to do the sleeve job and will sell this one here soon (stupid neweggs restocking fee), so if anyone is interested, let me know, the PSU got here less than a week and never been used.

Again, thanks for all your helps.

Good, get rid of that ugly funky bulky cable beast. My X3 1000 watts (not the best but rated fine) is all flat cables, modular and works fine with not funny stuff on my rig in my sig. I didn't know some PSU makers did such odd things. Glad my rig missed it.........

I was going to get a Silverstone Strider for the fully modular cables for sleeving but now I can just forget about it. :\

Are there any other good psus with fully modular cables?

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Originally Posted by WeeMaan

I was going to get a Silverstone Strider for the fully modular cables for sleeving but now I can just forget about it. :\

Are there any other good psus with fully modular cables?

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Silverstone Strider is acturally a good choice for full modular, it's the new Strider Plus series who has the problem

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Originally Posted by Bei Fei

The cap is also there to help with heavy load surges. It will provide the "instant" power when needed helping to maintain the 12V integrity. The closer to the power draw the better!

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Not 100% true (But certainly not wrong). The cap is there mainly to provide a grounding point for AC signals. Obviously you don't want random AC signals travelling all over on your DC power lines. The cap acts as a open circuit for DC, but as a short circuit for AC, thereby causing the AC noise to be grounded out of your system.

The bulge on the Corsair PSUs is a ferrite core which essentially does the same thing, just using different mechanisms (Magnetic induction currents).

You want these bypass caps/ferrite cores to be as close as you can get to the source of the potential noise (The GFX card).

The reason why the 24pin/8pin ATX cables don't get a similar treatment is that motherboards have lower switching speeds than high performance graphics cards, and motherboards have the space for larger caps.

Why dont you just use extensions and keep the PSU...I have done that as getting warranty here is anyway a pain and if I did sleeve the PSU wires I would not get warranty even if the fan broke..

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Originally Posted by mav2000

Why dont you just use extensions and keep the PSU...I have done that as getting warranty here is anyway a pain and if I did sleeve the PSU wires I would not get warranty even if the fan broke..

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That just about completely defeats the purpose of the caps then.

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Originally Posted by Bei Fei

The cap is also there to help with heavy load surges. It will provide the "instant" power when needed helping to maintain the 12V integrity. The closer to the power draw the better!

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Actually, I think you will find that these are filter caps. They are needed on almost all power supplies but are especially important on switch mode PSU's such as those used for PC's. They help filter the noise out of the power rails. High levels of noise are VERY bad for sensitive PC components. Most power supplies would have these internally but it seems that in this case they are located on the cables.

What you are referring to is commonly known as a "reservoir" capacitor and would need to be much larger than 2200u to be effective. These can commonly be seen in high current circuits such as high end car audio.

I don't think they are filters, sure there are noise, but I don't see the point that the noise is large enough that you have to use a filter. But as cap that take the AC out, they might be bigger size than they needed. 2200U is not a small cap

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Originally Posted by R3alsp33dy0ne

Actually, I think you will find that these are filter caps. They are needed on almost all power supplies but are especially important on switch mode PSU's such as those used for PC's. They help filter the noise out of the power rails. High levels of noise are VERY bad for sensitive PC components. Most power supplies would have these internally but it seems that in this case they are located on the cables.

What you are referring to is commonly known as a "reservoir" capacitor and would need to be much larger than 2200u to be effective. These can commonly be seen in high current circuits such as high end car audio.

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http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/inde...lossary&lan=us

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Originally Posted by Antec

PowerCache™

PowerCache™ is a technology that helps to stabilize the power output to CPU & video card. By adding a 2200µf capacitor at the end of the CPU and graphics cables, power can be delivered instantaneously where and when needed rather than from the power supply itself. For example, a 23A increase of demand from the CPU or GPU could cause a voltage drop of 1V causing a crash or reboot. With PowerCache™, the voltage drop will be just 0.2V, keeping the system running and stable.

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What has me wondering is what on earth would cause an increase of 23A?! :confused:

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Originally Posted by Alexandr0s

What has me wondering is what on earth would cause an increase of 23A?! :confused:

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A ripple voltage would do so. Means the voltage jump at the time you flip your switch on. Other things can cause an unstable current/voltage too, such as an lighting strike :)

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Originally Posted by Alexandr0s

What has me wondering is what on earth would cause an increase of 23A?! :confused:

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23A @ 12V = 276W
What graphic card on earth could "instantly" eat that much?

edit: Kanzy, when you swizch on your system, those caps are not loaded so they are of no use and they would make it even more unstable as a part of the current would charge it!

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Originally Posted by Alexandr0s

What has me wondering is what on earth would cause an increase of 23A?! :confused:

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going from idle to 3d mode on a videocard draws lots of current. Although I don't believe the hype of a 2200uF cap doing that much for current surges. It's just marketing BS mainly. Soon they will be all over our PSU cables. Like christmas tree light sets... but instead of lights, caps lol

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Originally Posted by hazilo

23A @ 12V = 276W
What graphic card on earth could "instantly" eat that much?

edit: Kanzy, when you swizch on your system, those caps are not loaded so they are of no use and they would make it even more unstable as a part of the current would charge it!

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But the current would have to charge the cap first before they reach the card. Would't that help to get rid of a ripple and make it stable?

EDIT: I don't think a 2200u cap would be good if there is a sudden power loss anyway. If that happens, what kind of horrible PSU that would be? Still, if they can put it on the cable, why not put them inside of the power supply. That's what I mean by saying I think I don't see the problem until the finished the PSU and put caps on the wire is the cheaper way to go

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Originally Posted by Kanzy

But the current would have to charge the cap first before they reach the card. Would't that help to get rid of a ripple and make it stable?

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Actually it will just ask more current to the PSU, but any PSU is normally capable by itself to increase current enough without drop of voltage, else computers wouldn't start.
For that use, the cap is useless as there are bigger ones inside the PSU that are here for that!
Unless you are using 3x 3970 in crossfirex to run several screens on eyefinity, I doubt that would be of any use.

But since they didn't put any of those magnete ring to ground high-frequency AC, I'd recommend to keep it on the cable.

Would it hurt to remove such a cap from your wiring? Seeing as it doesn't seem to have a very important job?

The capacitor purely provides extra boost. None of this AC grounding nonsense.

I find this very weird. What about the large caps in the PSU? Are they not there for the same reason? I just find it odd that the caps are not in the PSU where it should be instead of having it on the wire where I am thinking it is a cheap alternative. Damn it makes me love my X3 1000 that much more. Now it will require a big messy sleeve job to even try and hide.

I'm pretty certain the filter caps would be in the PSU. The power should be all DC by the time it gets to that point of circuit.

I could see them as booster caps as the video basically goes from very little draw to very high draw pretty fast. I would just sleeve over it. I have excessive heatshrink on my cables, but the heatshrink doesn't look bad.

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Originally Posted by Diverge

going from idle to 3d mode on a videocard draws lots of current. Although I don't believe the hype of a 2200uF cap doing that much for current surges. It's just marketing BS mainly. Soon they will be all over our PSU cables. Like christmas tree light sets... but instead of lights, caps lol

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I don't think its all smoke and mirrors. It seems that the math works as far as I can tell.

DV = l Dt/C

C = 2200uf
Dt= 20us
I = 23A

DV = .2V

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Originally Posted by Bei Fei

I don't think its all smoke and mirrors. It seems that the math works as far as I can tell.

DV = l Dt/C

C = 2200uf
Dt= 20us
I = 23A

DV = .2V

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With my 1 farad cap, I can surge up to 10,454 amps, for 20us, with the same dV =0.2V (I= C dV/dt). Makes me think of the flux capacitor and back to the future :)

Your PSU probably has a bunch of caps on it's outputs stage. Your GPU takes that 12V and drops it down to various other smaller voltages with voltage regulators (5v, 3.3V, 1.8V, 1.2V..typical IC voltages.), and has a bunch of it's own caps. I'm not saying that math or theory isn't true.. just saying it probably doesn't result in much of anything, but something to market your PSU with, that maybe your competitors don't have. It's just my opinion I guess. I could be wrong.

I'd be curious to see someone do some tests to see how it affects the various lower voltage regulators on a GPU.

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Originally Posted by millertime359

I'm pretty certain the filter caps would be in the PSU. The power should be all DC by the time it gets to that point of circuit.

I could see them as booster caps as the video basically goes from very little draw to very high draw pretty fast. I would just sleeve over it. I have excessive heatshrink on my cables, but the heatshrink doesn't look bad.

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According to Oklahoma Wolf's testing of this power supply on JonnyGuru, these caps in the wiring helped prevent some ripple/noise. He swapped out the cables with a set from another Antec modular ps, one without the caps, and the +12V rail began intermittantly displaying some quite noticeable ripple. With the proper cable, the ripple went away.

As OW said:

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I can only conclude that the PowerCache™ caps aren't just there for show - they're there because the unit's design needs them to be there. Forget the "extra power reserve" thing on the box... those capacitors have to be there primarily to make the unit itself more stable. Folks, don't run the TPQ 1200W without those cables... you want the stability they provide.

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Quote above taken from this page, bottom of page.


And as to why these caps aren't inside....the ps is really crammed tight internally and OW postulated that these caps just wouldn't fit inside, so they were put in the wiring and marketing took over.


Again, a quote from OW:

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The 12V secondary side looks to be sorely lacking in space. I guess that's why they put those capacitors on the cables - there was no room at the inn here.

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Quote taken from this page, below 8th photo examining the internals of this Enhance built power supply.

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Originally Posted by Diverge

going from idle to 3d mode on a videocard draws lots of current. Although I don't believe the hype of a 2200uF cap doing that much for current surges. It's just marketing BS mainly. Soon they will be all over our PSU cables. Like christmas tree light sets... but instead of lights, caps lol

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Originally Posted by Kanzy

But the current would have to charge the cap first before they reach the card. Would't that help to get rid of a ripple and make it stable?

EDIT: I don't think a 2200u cap would be good if there is a sudden power loss anyway. If that happens, what kind of horrible PSU that would be? Still, if they can put it on the cable, why not put them inside of the power supply. That's what I mean by saying I think I don't see the problem until the finished the PSU and put caps on the wire is the cheaper way to go

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Originally Posted by Sadasius

I find this very weird. What about the large caps in the PSU? Are they not there for the same reason? I just find it odd that the caps are not in the PSU where it should be instead of having it on the wire where I am thinking it is a cheap alternative. Damn it makes me love my X3 1000 that much more. Now it will require a big messy sleeve job to even try and hide.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Diverge

With my 1 farad cap, I can surge up to 10,454 amps, for 20us, with the same dV =0.2V (I= C dV/dt). Makes me think of the flux capacitor and back to the future :)

Your PSU probably has a bunch of caps on it's outputs stage. Your GPU takes that 12V and drops it down to various other smaller voltages with voltage regulators (5v, 3.3V, 1.8V, 1.2V..typical IC voltages.), and has a bunch of it's own caps. I'm not saying that math or theory isn't true.. just saying it probably doesn't result in much of anything, but something to market your PSU with, that maybe your competitors don't have. It's just my opinion I guess. I could be wrong.

I'd be curious to see someone do some tests to see how it affects the various lower voltage regulators on a GPU.

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the new strider plus is built by enhance just like the antec tpq 1200...a good explanation why they put capacitors on the cables ...is from JonnyGuru.com. reviewed by okw...

read the lower part

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...tory3&reid=177

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So, I can only conclude that the PowerCache™ caps aren't just there for show - they're there because the unit's design needs them to be there. Forget the "extra power reserve" thing on the box... those capacitors have to be there primarily to make the unit itself more stable. Folks, don't run the TPQ 1200W without those cables... you want the stability they provide.

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So basically, don't move the caps. ;)

The efficiency tanks if you remove those. Essentially its their way of getting around inferior internal components and design.

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Originally Posted by sprayingmango

The efficiency tanks if you remove those. Essentially its their way of getting around inferior internal components and design.

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Which inferior parts? Are you referring to the Nippon Chemi-Con on both the primary and secondary, or the Sanyos on the secondary, or maybe the Nippon Chemi-Con polymers on the VRMs, perhaps? Or that Enhance makes junk....which it doesn't. Now, if Sirfa was the manufacturer, on the other hand, I'd tend to agree with you.

Actually, I rather think you have no idea what you're talking about.

Has anyone tried using the cable without the capacitor yet? :)

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Originally Posted by dreamaxx

Has anyone tried using the cable without the capacitor yet? :)

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Read a few post above? :shrug:

Does anyone know how one could go about buying these cables for a different PSU, or possibly modding existing cables with these caps? If I did do this, would it help with noise ripple on the 12v lines of a PSU that doesn't come with them already. I have plans on maxing out a Silverstone 1500w unit and I was thinking it could use all the help it can get.