ATI’s Dual-Chip Hemlock Due Late in Q4'09+ Possible Prices

".....ucts:

* Hemlock - dual-chip flagship graphics solutions powered by two RV870 chips (originally known as R800);
* Cypress – single-chip high-performance graphics solution based on RV870 chip that will replace ATI Radeon HD 4890;
* Juniper – single chip performance graphics solution that will replace the remaining Radeon HD 4870 and 4850 graphics boards. It is highly likely that this one is based on the RV870 as well;
* Redwood – single chip mainstream graphics solution(s) based on RV830 chip that will replace both RV730 and RV740-based solutions;
* Cedar – single chip entry-level graphics solution(s) based on RV810 chip;

Starting from the DirectX 11 family, ATI started to use code-names inst...."


Source

*NEW*

"....The top dog carries the name Radeon HD 5870X2, and we are talking about single-PCB, dual-GPU card that will retail for cool $599. This is still $50 cheaper than GTX280 at the time of its debut [do you remember the outrageous $649?], but bear in mind that this is a top dog part.

For some odd reason, the $499 bracket will remain without a card. We expect that slot will be filled with a water-cooled edition of 5870, or more likely - 5870X2 once that nVidia launches their competing products. Afore mentioned Radeon HD 5870 is set to go on sale for $379-399, while the cheapest entry into the 5800 series, the Radeon HD 5850 is priced in the $279-299 bracket....."

Source

This is sad, i was hoping that Hemlock will be a x3 so that 5870 x2 will be available at a lower price. Oh well it seems i have to wait till Q4, well this need till jan 09 for prices to stabilize a bit and thats when AMD is launching their new mobo's also that means i should wait till mid Jan to put together a new system or i could get 2 5850's and CF then but that means getting a expensive board.

For the price the 5870x2 seem to be the most bang of the buck, well initially tough. 5870x2 costs the same as 2x 5850, so the only real question price wise is should i wait for the GT300 or take the plunge??

That's "Late in 2009", not "late Q4". Hemlock will be around in November.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ajaidev

".....ucts:

* Hemlock - dual-chip flagship graphics solutions powered by two RV870 chips (originally known as R800);
* Cypress – single-chip high-performance graphics solution based on RV870 chip that will replace ATI Radeon HD 4890;
* Juniper – single chip performance graphics solution that will replace the remaining Radeon HD 4870 and 4850 graphics boards. It is highly likely that this one is based on the RV870 as well;
* Redwood – single chip mainstream graphics solution(s) based on RV830 chip that will replace both RV730 and RV740-based solutions;
* Cedar – single chip entry-level graphics solution(s) based on RV810 chip;

Starting from the DirectX 11 family, ATI started to use code-names inst...."


Source

This is sad, i was hoping that Hemlock will be a x3 so that 5870 x2 will be available at a lower price. Oh well it seems i have to wait till Q4, well this need till jan 09 for prices to stabilize a bit and thats when AMD is launching their new mobo's also that means i should wait till mid Jan to put together a new system or i could get 2 5850's and CF then but that means getting a expensive board.

---

Are you serious? You're disappointed because you believed the top enthusiast card of this generation was going to contain three GPU's on a single PCB as opposed to 'just' two? What were you smoking?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by btarunr

That's "Late in 2009", not "late Q4". Hemlock will be around in November.

---

Those are relative dates.;)
Its nicely positioned for the X2 to arrive at that time-frame, just before the holidays.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by labs23

Those are relative dates.;)
Its nicely positioned for the X2 to arrive at that time-frame, just before the holidays.

---

I know. A quick glance of the headline makes one read it as "late in Q4 2009" (end of it). Another glance would show that the "late" is in context of the year, not quarter. :)

I'm hoping that the 5870 X2 is actually 2 5870s this time and not 2 of a better card ( eg it 512MB vs 1GB ; this probably annoyed people who bought 2 4870 512s ) I'm more inclined to use 1 5870 pending performance, power usage and noise and possibly 2 rather than going for a 5870x2. I'd sooner have to get rid of 1 or 2 cheaper cards than a more expensive, niche card. Part of this is due to my less than acceptable experience with my X2 but that is another story. The biggest advantage I can see with the X2 is only needing 2 slots and potential cheaper waterblock cost.

Anyways I want to wait for GT300 before making any big decision, 1 5870 should be more than adequate until that time and if anything there is the benefit of later price reductions for a second card.

The X2 will likely hit shelves mid November as has been mentioned in various articles.

i think a duel card setup with 2 waterblocks will look nicer than an x2 with a single water block.

it may be worth the extra money and (possibly) loss in performance, just for looks. but thats 100% opinion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EnJoY

Are you serious? You're disappointed because you believed the top enthusiast card of this generation was going to contain three GPU's on a single PCB as opposed to 'just' two? What were you smoking?

---

That's what happen when smoking cheap stuff. The stuff I smoked did show 4 GPU SMP with shared memory. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Heinz68

The stuff I smoked did show 4 GPU SMP with shared memory. :)

---

Is your dealer sponsoring you in exchange for positive exposure? :p:

^^ coming from a guy advertising brand names in his sig.

I have reasonable expectations though ;)

I for one thoroughly approve of naming a top end card after a poison. Maybe the RV810 variant should be called "nettles"

Looking forward to a double dose around Christmas time!

cant wait to see the first gt300 vs. r800 review.

hope we get some specifications on sept. 10, rather than just another blah dx11 showcase.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Heinz68

The stuff I smoked did show 4 GPU SMP with shared memory. :)

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wha? 0_o and whos selling you that and claiming its good stuff? let me guess, atiforum.de?

rv790 will be 40nm and come on a dual gpu card called the 4995X2:
http://news.ati-forum.de/index.php/n...it-rv790-kommt

Quote:

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* Hemlock - dual-chip flagship graphics solutions powered by two RV870 chips (originally known as R800);
* Cypress – single-chip high-performance graphics solution based on RV870 chip that will replace ATI Radeon HD 4890;
* Juniper – single chip performance graphics solution that will replace the remaining Radeon HD 4870 and 4850 graphics boards. It is highly likely that this one is based on the RV870 as well;
* Redwood – single chip mainstream graphics solution(s) based on RV830 chip that will replace both RV730 and RV740-based solutions;
* Cedar – single chip entry-level graphics solution(s) based on RV810 chip;

---

thats really odd... i thought cypress is a dual juniper and hemlock is an entry level part? i think xbitlabs got confused...

trinity ?
cypress R800 aka RV870x2
juniper RV870
redwood RV830
cedar RV830/RV810
hemlock RV830/RV810

So rumor has it then that there will be no dual RV870 part at launch then? Time to find a second PSU in preparation for quad-CFX again :down:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saaya

thats really odd... i thought cypress is a dual juniper and hemlock is an entry level part? i think xbitlabs got confused...

trinity ?
cypress R800 aka RV870x2
juniper RV870
redwood RV830
cedar RV830/RV810
hemlock RV830/RV810

---

You are massively confused with your codenames...
Xbitlab's is closer than yours but they got the lowend mixed up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EnJoY

Are you serious? You're disappointed because you believed the top enthusiast card of this generation was going to contain three GPU's on a single PCB as opposed to 'just' two? What were you smoking?

---

Well because 58xx x2 is suppose to fight the GT300, but that leave the GT300 x2 in a different level all together. The x3 could give at least some company to the GT300 x2. This would off course mean that x2 would be cheaper than the x3 which be priced below the GT300 X2 and above GT300, the x2 would be priced around the GT300 "even if it is better" because the x3 would be high end.

Essentially price-wise GT300 X2>58xx x3>GT300/58xx x2>58xx

Sounds nice, I think 2 cores on a single card is enough. Something more than that will produce more heat = more power usage = not good.

We need specs and benchmarks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ajaidev

Well because 58xx x2 is suppose to fight the GT300, but that leave the GT300 x2 in a different level all together. The x3 could give at least some company to the GT300 x2. This would off course mean that x2 would be cheaper than the x3 which be priced below the GT300 X2 and above GT300, the x2 would be priced around the GT300 "even if it is better" because the x3 would be high end.

Essentially price-wise GT300 X2>58xx x3>GT300/58xx x2>58xx

---

I didn't really understand that, but if the GT300 is slightly better than the GTX 295 like rumoured, and if it's priced at >$500 like rumoured, the 5850 @$249 will probably take the crown Price/Performance wise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ajaidev

Well because 58xx x2 is suppose to fight the GT300, but that leave the GT300 x2 in a different level all together. The x3 could give at least some company to the GT300 x2. This would off course mean that x2 would be cheaper than the x3 which be priced below the GT300 X2 and above GT300, the x2 would be priced around the GT300 "even if it is better" because the x3 would be high end.

Essentially price-wise GT300 X2>58xx x3>GT300/58xx x2>58xx

---

but the price will be GT300 x2 (by a huge amount)>GT300/58xx X2>58xx

it will be like last time... :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Helloworld_98

I didn't really understand that, but if the GT300 is slightly better than the GTX 295 like rumoured, and if it's priced at >$500 like rumoured, the 5850 @$249 will probably take the crown Price/Performance wise.

---

It's always good to read the hear say about rumors.
nVIDIA's part is always rumored to be a bit better than their last part, and AMD's always way faster than their last part :yepp:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

It's always good to read the hear say about rumors.
nVIDIA's part is always rumored to be a bit better than their last part, and AMD's always way faster than their last part :yepp:

---

Really? Most rumors I heard are saying 5870=4870 X2 maybe slightly faster.
And nVs GT300 or whatever it is, comes slightly faster than GTX295.

So how exactly is that slightly better for nV and WAY faster for AMD?

To me it sounds like they will both double the performance of the fastest single GPU from previous gen.

But this is all rumors and guessing of course.

New alleged prices of the cards added in first post.

Just over a week and we should see justice on all this rumors, at least ATI's.:D

I very much doubt there will be a x3 gpu anytime soon. Remember only 6 moinths ago microsoft made it publicly known that multiple chipped gpus are not the way to be going as they make there operating systems become less stable/reliable or something along them lines. They recommend people only use single gpu solutions and that manufacturers should concentrate on making them faster.

There is a thread about it on this forum somewhere, now the question I got is, if the top dog is saying such things why would ati/nvidia want to ignore the big daddy and go for more and more gpus on a pcb...it just bring more issue's.
Infact i garrantee you guys there will be NO top end, ati/nvidia card with x3 gpus or more, out before Q3 2010, some of you lot get far to carried away, the sites don't help as 80% are full of bull****.

I'm pretty sure Hemlock will be a 5850x2 part not a 5870x2 part considering:

2x5870 @ $399 = $798

2x5850 @ $299 = $598

Perkam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ajaidev

*NEW*

"....The top dog carries the name Radeon HD 5870X2, and we are talking about single-PCB, dual-GPU card that will retail for cool $599. This is still $50 cheaper than GTX280 at the time of its debut [do you remember the outrageous $649?], but bear in mind that this is a top dog part.

For some odd reason, the $499 bracket will remain without a card. We expect that slot will be filled with a water-cooled edition of 5870, or more likely - 5870X2 once that nVidia launches their competing products. Afore mentioned Radeon HD 5870 is set to go on sale for $379-399, while the cheapest entry into the 5800 series, the Radeon HD 5850 is priced in the $279-299 bracket....."

Source

---

those prices sound way weird...
5870x2 549$?
5870 399$?

this would be the first time in vga history that a dual gpu card doesnt cost 2x or more than 2x the price of a single gpu card...

lets look at the current pricing:

GTX295 500$
GTX285 350$
GTX275 225$
GTX260 175$
GTS250 125$

4870x2 400$
4890 200$
4870 175$
4850 125$
4770 125$

we can expect the 5870 and 5850 to beat the 285... but that doesnt mean it will cost more than a 285... i doubt ati will launch their cards at such a high price...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

You are massively confused with your codenames...
Xbitlab's is closer than yours but they got the lowend mixed up.

---

well thanks for clearing it up! :P

yes, thats what those damn code names are all about, arent they? to confuse people :D

who cares how you call it, its pretty obvious that there will be a dual rv870 at the top, then rv870 in 2 variants, mainstream and slightly higher clocked, and then rv840/830/810 or whatever you wanna call the mainstream/entry level parts...

ati may change their naming strategy but i highly doubt they change their design strategy...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by azza21

I very much doubt there will be a x3 gpu anytime soon. Remember only 6 moinths ago microsoft made it publicly known that multiple chipped gpus are not the way to be going as they make there operating systems become less stable/reliable or something along them lines. They recommend people only use single gpu solutions and that manufacturers should concentrate on making them faster.

There is a thread about it on this forum somewhere, now the question I got is, if the top dog is saying such things why would ati/nvidia want to ignore the big daddy and go for more and more gpus on a pcb...it just bring more issue's.
Infact i garrantee you guys there will be NO top end, ati/nvidia card with x3 gpus or more, out before Q3 2010, some of you lot get far to carried away, the sites don't help as 80% are full of bull****.

---

thats basically microsoft telling nvidia and ati, hey, go make better gpus... they will ignore comments like that for sure or reply with, hey, go make a better os :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saaya

thats basically microsoft telling nvidia and ati, hey, go make better gpus... they will ignore comments like that for sure or reply with, hey, go make a better os :D

---

CPUs and GPUs have been getting 2x as strong every 18 months

Operating Systems have been consuming 20x the resources every 48 months

guess which one has the problem with their laws?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manicdan

CPUs and GPUs have been getting 2x as strong every 18 months

Operating Systems have been consuming 20x the resources every 48 months

guess which one has the problem with their laws?

---

Ohhh I know!! Pick me! I know the answer!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manicdan

CPUs and GPUs have been getting 2x as strong every 18 months

Operating Systems have been consuming 20x the resources every 48 months

guess which one has the problem with their laws?

---

How you do you figure this?

Vista wasn't that much obscenely slower than XP considering the time gap. And 7 is actually faster than Vista by most accounts.

The Mac OS X updates also don't seem to have any major impact on performance from an update-to-update basis.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sly Fox

How you do you figure this?

Vista wasn't that much obscenely slower than XP considering the time gap. And 7 is actually faster than Vista by most accounts.

The Mac OS X updates also don't seem to have any major impact on performance from an update-to-update basis.

---

its just some mean math to say that windows use to work fine on 32MBs of ram just a decade ago, and now need 2GBs. from Win98 to XP was a big jump (around 100MB to 512-1GB) and from XP to Vista the cpu really needed to be upgraded or its a slideshow without all the visuals turned off.

no OS past Win7 should really need to take up more resources, i cant see what they could possibly need with all that space and power. but in another decade we will laugh at anyone who cant use Win9/10 on less than 10GB and GPU acceleration.

dont read too much into this, the point was that no matter how good the hardware gets, the OS seems to be able to abuse it happily.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manicdan

its just some mean math to say that windows use to work fine on 32MBs of ram just a decade ago, and now need 2GBs. from Win98 to XP was a big jump (around 100MB to 512-1GB) and from XP to Vista the cpu really needed to be upgraded or its a slideshow without all the visuals turned off.

no OS past Win7 should really need to take up more resources, i cant see what they could possibly need with all that space and power. but in another decade we will laugh at anyone who cant use Win9/10 on less than 10GB and GPU acceleration.

dont read too much into this, the point was that no matter how good the hardware gets, the OS seems to be able to abuse it happily.

---

This is the point. I would rather have the OS consume all 6GB of my memory in order to cache a lot of stuff instead of sitting idle with 5.5GB free. What does free memory do for me at idle? Nothing at all. But with a lot of data cached it will speed up my daily usage of the OS. When I need memory for an application the OS frees up the cache and I only take note that "wow, that application loaded fast".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by perkam

I'm pretty sure Hemlock will be a 5850x2 part not a 5870x2 part considering:

2x5870 @ $399 = $798

2x5850 @ $299 = $598

Perkam

---

I don't see hemlock being a 2x5850 part. Since day one they have talked about a highend dual gpu board..which would logically be the 70 part not the 50 part..Sylvia from the INQ originally reported the codenames and had hemlock at the bottom by mistake. She was later corrected. She was spot on all the others, with Cypress being the top end single gpu board. Hemlock is 2 cypress' on one board, which has been stated already in this thread. This is all based on information that's currently out, so things can change.. Hemlock is a poison, it makes perfect sense to call the highest end x2 part this because its going to kill NVIDIA..

Also based on my observations and personal opinion, dual gpu boards are becoming more standard, not in the sense that everyone has one but yet its no longer uncommon or extravagent. You can't base pricing logic on the past when x2 parts were 2x the price of the normal part. Just like quadcores carried almost a 50% premium when they came out..They aren't anymore because they are more common. This is ati's 3rd generation in a row with a x2 product. Its logical and pretty probable that a 5870x2 wont be 2x the price as a 5870. $399 and $549, a price difference of $150 is about right. Besides how can they charge exactly double the price when it isn't exactly double the performance, linearly..?

i dont think they would sell an x2 as "buy one, get one 60% off". AMD has said themselves get up to 1.8x the performance with crossfire, so they will probably charge 1.8x as much for a duel. so if its $550 for a x2, the 5870 would be spot on at $300. or the x2 will be delayed long enough for the 5870 prices to come down to 300ish

new years resolution
Westmere Gulftown
xfired 5870x2s
i wonder how well they will scale. some stupidly high unnecessary framerate...i cant wait

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tenknics

I don't see hemlock being a 2x5850 part. Since day one they have talked about a highend dual gpu board..which would logically be the 70 part not the 50 part..Sylvia from the INQ originally reported the codenames and had hemlock at the bottom by mistake. She was later corrected. She was spot on all the others, with Cypress being the top end single gpu board. Hemlock is 2 cypress' on one board, which has been stated already in this thread. This is all based on information that's currently out, so things can change.. Hemlock is a poison, it makes perfect sense to call the highest end x2 part this because its going to kill NVIDIA..

Also based on my observations and personal opinion, dual gpu boards are becoming more standard, not in the sense that everyone has one but yet its no longer uncommon or extravagent. You can't base pricing logic on the past when x2 parts were 2x the price of the normal part. Just like quadcores carried almost a 50% premium when they came out..They aren't anymore because they are more common. This is ati's 3rd generation in a row with a x2 product. Its logical and pretty probable that a 5870x2 wont be 2x the price as a 5870. $399 and $549, a price difference of $150 is about right. Besides how can they charge exactly double the price when it isn't exactly double the performance, linearly..?

---

Lol i didnt know Hemlock was poison , now it all makes sense :)

You have some good points and i agree it shouldnt be priced at 2x the price , but that is far from truth anywhere in GPU market, single GPU cards that perform 20% better can cost 2x its all about bleeding edge and perhaps being able to run quadfire with only 2 pci-e slots.

To calculate Hemlock price based on 2x5870 price is wrong.

The 4870x2 was cheaper to produce than two 4870s, hence the lower price.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manicdan

i dont think they would sell an x2 as "buy one, get one 60% off". AMD has said themselves get up to 1.8x the performance with crossfire, so they will probably charge 1.8x as much for a duel. so if its $550 for a x2, the 5870 would be spot on at $300. or the x2 will be delayed long enough for the 5870 prices to come down to 300ish

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It's because the up-sell is so easy for people to make.... for only a $150 bucks more you have more value. So ATI gets more profit from people who wouldn't normally buy SLI, but see this as an opportunity to get into a multi-GPU solution...


As tenknics said a moment ago.

we also have historical pricing to help out, what did the 3870x2 and 4870x2 and 4850x2 sell for compared to their single counterpart?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Manicdan

its just some mean math to say that windows use to work fine on 32MBs of ram just a decade ago, and now need 2GBs. from Win98 to XP was a big jump (around 100MB to 512-1GB) and from XP to Vista the cpu really needed to be upgraded or its a slideshow without all the visuals turned off.

no OS past Win7 should really need to take up more resources, i cant see what they could possibly need with all that space and power. but in another decade we will laugh at anyone who cant use Win9/10 on less than 10GB and GPU acceleration.

dont read too much into this, the point was that no matter how good the hardware gets, the OS seems to be able to abuse it happily.

---

I agree totally that software developers use good quality hardware as an excuse to be lazy.

We'll have to agree to disagree on whether or not an OS should raise requirements over the years. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sly Fox

I agree totally that software developers use good quality hardware as an excuse to be lazy.

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often they do not even need that, just a guaranteed market and they do not care how much of a steaming pile their work is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xoulz

It's because the up-sell is so easy for people to make.... for only a $150 bucks more you have more value. So ATI gets more profit from people who wouldn't normally buy SLI, but see this as an opportunity to get into a multi-GPU solution...

---

^ This.

I paid $600cnd for my X2 at the tail end of August last year and at the time here there were only 4870 512s and they were 290-320cnd still. So given you have 2x the vmem, that is more value than 2 4870s ( and less slots used and slightly less load and a fair bit less idle power usage ) The biggest thing I take issue with X2 cards is the noise but there are ways around that I suppose.

I still expect both the 5870 and 5870x2 to use the same amount of GDDR5 however ( unlike the 4870 and X2 ) I'd be shocked if they had 2x2GB on the X2 although It could be possible.

$549USD MSRP would put the new X2 at the same price at last gen so I'd consider that realistic market wise. Unless Nvidia does in fact manage to both release GT300 in November and "wow" us with it, I doubt the 5800s will drop in price much if at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tenknics

I don't see hemlock being a 2x5850 part. Since day one they have talked about a highend dual gpu board..which would logically be the 70 part not the 50 part..Sylvia from the INQ originally reported the codenames and had hemlock at the bottom by mistake. She was later corrected. She was spot on all the others, with Cypress being the top end single gpu board. Hemlock is 2 cypress' on one board, which has been stated already in this thread. This is all based on information that's currently out, so things can change.. Hemlock is a poison, it makes perfect sense to call the highest end x2 part this because its going to kill NVIDIA..

Also based on my observations and personal opinion, dual gpu boards are becoming more standard, not in the sense that everyone has one but yet its no longer uncommon or extravagent. You can't base pricing logic on the past when x2 parts were 2x the price of the normal part. Just like quadcores carried almost a 50% premium when they came out..They aren't anymore because they are more common. This is ati's 3rd generation in a row with a x2 product. Its logical and pretty probable that a 5870x2 wont be 2x the price as a 5870. $399 and $549, a price difference of $150 is about right. Besides how can they charge exactly double the price when it isn't exactly double the performance, linearly..?

---

A. HD 5850 and 5870 are both Cypress.

B. HD 4870 was $299 when the HD 4870X2 was priced at $549. That's a $50 saving on twice the GPUs. If the same logic is applied to the HD 5870 @ $399, then the HD 5870X2 would end up at $749 or at max $699. (You can't expect to save too much money on a new process.)

Perkam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Manicdan

CPUs and GPUs have been getting 2x as strong every 18 months
Operating Systems have been consuming 20x the resources

---

I agree. I'm still using Win XP Pro. Don't care too much for the newer jumbled up power hogs with all the eye-candy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chickenfeed

I still expect both the 5870 and 5870x2 to use the same amount of GDDR5 however ( unlike the 4870 and X2 ) I'd be shocked if they had 2x2GB on the X2 although It could be possible.

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I think they will have 1GB and 2GB 5870's and 2x1GB and 2x2GB 5870x2's. At launch probably only the 1GB 5870 and 1GB 5850 though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tenknics

Also based on my observations and personal opinion, dual gpu boards are becoming more standard, not in the sense that everyone has one but yet its no longer uncommon or extravagent. You can't base pricing logic on the past when x2 parts were 2x the price of the normal part. Just like quadcores carried almost a 50% premium when they came out..They aren't anymore because they are more common. This is ati's 3rd generation in a row with a x2 product. Its logical and pretty probable that a 5870x2 wont be 2x the price as a 5870. $399 and $549, a price difference of $150 is about right. Besides how can they charge exactly double the price when it isn't exactly double the performance, linearly..?

---

how can they? well theyve been doing it for years and so has nvidia... what your saying makes no sense whatsoever... if you buy a vga that costs twice as much you NEVER get twice the performance... is a core i7 975 for 999$ 5x faster than a core i7 920?
is a gtx295 5x faster than a 4770 or gts250?
subsidizing the second gpu on an X2 card is really weird... why would they do that? that makes no sense whatsoever...
that only makes sense if you try to push the market to adopt dual gpu cards faster... and i doubt thats worth spending that much money to ati...

there are people buying a dual gtx285 card from asus for 999$ or even more... a 5870x2 will def blow that away so why would ati sell it for less than the price of 2 5870s and for only 50$ more than a regular 295? no, this doesnt make sense... im not saying the pricing is wrong, but if its right, its pretty weird and stupid from ati...

the only way i can make sense of the pricing is that by the end of the year when the 5870x2 actually gets released, prices of the 5870 have probably dropped to around half that of the 5870x2, so thats why they project the latter to be 550$ at the end of the year... i read that as: we will launch 5870 at 399$ and expect it to drop to 279$ by the end of the year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxgull

new years resolution
Westmere Gulftown
xfired 5870x2s
i wonder how well they will scale. some stupidly high unnecessary framerate...i cant wait

---

oh yeah, that gulftown is going to get you a huge framerate boost... NOT :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saaya

oh yeah, that gulftown is going to get you a huge framerate boost... NOT :P

---

It might clock higher due to 32nm. And bigger cache is also a plus.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zalbard

It might clock higher due to 32nm. And bigger cache is also a plus.

---

how many extra fps do you think youll get from doubling the cache? ;) seriously, im curious...

and if it clocks higher then what?
the new gpus will def need more cpu power to shine, but you definately wont see a diference above 4ghz every i7 and i5 does easily now...

chose any game your playing and then check your fps with highest cpu clocks and then reduce cpu clocks in 200mhz steps... youll be surprised how little cpu clocks we need... last time i checked it was around 2.4ghz... that doesnt mean more than 2.4ghz doesnt give you more fps, it just barely scales above that...

why do you think some 3dmark records are done with the cpu way below the max it can run? cause theres absolutely no diference in pushing it higher so they chose a low safe speed...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saaya

how many extra fps do you think youll get from doubling the cache? ;) seriously, im curious...

and if it clocks higher then what?
the new gpus will def need more cpu power to shine, but you definately wont see a diference above 4ghz every i7 and i5 does easily now...

chose any game your playing and then check your fps with highest cpu clocks and then reduce cpu clocks in 200mhz steps... youll be surprised how little cpu clocks we need... last time i checked it was around 2.4ghz... that doesnt mean more than 2.4ghz doesnt give you more fps, it just barely scales above that...

why do you think some 3dmark records are done with the cpu way below the max it can run? cause theres absolutely no diference in pushing it higher so they chose a low safe speed...

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That's way too generic. While that's certainly true for games like Crysis, for others such as TF2, CPU is king.

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Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

This is the point. I would rather have the OS consume all 6GB of my memory in order to cache a lot of stuff instead of sitting idle with 5.5GB free. What does free memory do for me at idle? Nothing at all. But with a lot of data cached it will speed up my daily usage of the OS. When I need memory for an application the OS frees up the cache and I only take note that "wow, that application loaded fast".

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QFT.

I love Vista, the performance on Vista is much smoother then XP imo, yes I used that magic word "smoother" when it comes to performance :up:

wha? nothing is smoother on vista vs xp... the gui has more smooth menu glide effects than xp, if you compare the "eye candy" mode of xp with vista... but who runs xp without the classic look to begin with? :D

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Originally Posted by saaya

wha? nothing is smoother on vista vs xp... the gui has more smooth menu glide effects than xp, if you compare the "eye candy" mode of xp with vista... but who runs xp without the classic look to begin with? :D

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Eye candy on Vista is ok, but I honestly to think the performance is smoother on Vista - didn't say anyone had to agree with me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saaya

oh yeah, that gulftown is going to get you a huge framerate boost... NOT :P

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from my QX9650....
Gulftown + quadfire 5870's, of course i will see a framerate boost. my huge is different than your huge, obviously. since i am running my gear at the bleeding edge, 2 FPS avg is HUGE. isnt that why we're here? to push the xtreme and not settle?

and
why do you have to pi** on my new years resolution? i believe i will see a huge FPS increase with the posted upgrade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxgull

from my QX9650....
Gulftown + quadfire 5870's, of course i will see a framerate boost. my huge is different than your huge, obviously. since i am running my gear at the bleeding edge, 2 FPS avg is HUGE. isnt that why we're here? to push the xtreme and not settle?

and
why do you have to pi** on my new years resolution? i believe i will see a huge FPS increase with the posted upgrade.

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You'd see the same boost in performance going to a i7 860 ..!

His point is that after a certain point, cache or Mhz doesn't matter in games (FPS), it's bandwidth and GPU.

(Unless we are talking about physics.)

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Originally Posted by Xoulz

You'd see the same boost in performance going to a i7 860 ..!

His point is that after a certain point, cache or Mhz doesn't matter in games (FPS), it's bandwidth and GPU.

(Unless we are talking about physics.)

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That's a bit of a moot point don't you think? If you have a sufficiently fast CPU then your GPU is the limit. If you have a sufficiently fast GPU then your CPU is the limit. That could be said for any game title which uses both and it would be absolutely true.

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Originally Posted by Particle

That's a bit of a moot point don't you think? If you have a sufficiently fast CPU then your GPU is the limit. If you have a sufficiently fast GPU then your CPU is the limit. That could be said for any game title which uses both and it would be absolutely true.

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Yep, but tell that^^ to whom I was quoting... ;)

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Originally Posted by Xoulz

Yep, but tell that^^ to whom I was quoting... ;)

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i'm listening. and i am skipping the i7, i HAVE 45nm tecnology, i want the 6 cores that i will never use, and the quadfire that i'll never use.:D

i know that in gaming i will SEE no difference. i didnt see a difference on a amd 550 at 3.4GHz with a single 4870 1gb build, to a Q9550 at 3.8 xfired 4890's build, both at 1440 x 900 (my eyes arent that sharp anymore).
I do understand. this is simply stuff to play with, like a lot of guys. :)

sorry off topic...

i cant wait for the new 5870 cards!

Im with you on the whole almost 2x pricing thing and I understand the logic, but I just don't see ATI doing it. Even if one 5870 costs $400 I really cant see them pricing their x2 above $600 if even that.. They've been focusing on cheaper, smaller chips for the last 3 gens..Have they even had a $600 part in the last 3 generations? I think having a $600+ part is a step backwards for them. When I think of $600 for a GPU, I think of the first few troubled weeks of the 280 and 260, prices that didn't last long because of the aggressive pricing of ATI. ATI has been trying to go a different direction than Nvidia's expensive monsters. They have been very public about this. Why would they now turn around and release $600+ boards? Especially with Nvidia struggling to keep up, if at all, a $550 x2 would be the nail in the coffin.


And yea I know 5850 and 5870 are both Cypress. You missed the point. Do you really think that they are talking up this hemlock, a high-end x2 board, a poison, a killer of Nvidia, the product that's supposed to give them the crown back etc. etc. just to release a mid-range x2 board? Like I said anything is possible but again I don't see the logic and hype being built up around Hemlock just to be a 5850x2 part..Historically the xx70 x2's came out first, followed by a xx50 x2..Why would that change now?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tenknics

And yea I know 5850 and 5870 are both Cypress. You missed the point. Do you really think that they are talking up this hemlock, a high-end x2 board, a poison, a killer of Nvidia, the product that's supposed to give them the crown back etc. etc. just to release a mid-range x2 board? Like I said anything is possible but again I don't see the logic and hype being built up around Hemlock just to be a 5850x2 part..Historically the xx70 x2's came out first, followed by a xx50 x2..Why would that change now?

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Depending on pricing, they might have a segment to fill.
I agree on not expecting it right out the door or before the 59x0, since they supposedly dropped the x2 branding. Also, again depending on pricing, they will have to wait to build inventory on the 5850 before they could think of creating a x2 part out of it.