lets ALL figure out the fogging of tubing issues!!!

*ATTN pros who feel this thread is above them and want to post negative comments here to start a fight,plz dont..ty*

this is only a help thread on a common problem(fogging\hazing).if there is a PROVEN solution then please post it here for me to see with my own eyes.im going to keep this thread ALIVE and update it frequently for other guys to see my results...this can help im sure and i have NEVER seen a periodic timetable for fogging\hazing on a new fresh install of tubing(Tygon r3603) after 3 hour flushing my system WELL.as i said i will update alot days\weeks\months on my results for a better feel on this subject.im sick of myself and others redoing there setups with new tubing,adding there fluid of choice looking wiked\takin pics then lil while later BAM..fogged!im currently waiting for the engineer at tygon to call my cell phone with some more in depth questions i have for him.


before we get started lemme explain my setup(5 years old).pretty similar component wise to others but diff design layout.before the days of the "waterkeg" design i built my setup that looks earily like it out of a type 304 stainlees steel sheet(i made a custom box\welded\polished) to sit UNDER my pc and house everything.this includes my res,rad,and pump are all in it sharing NO ambiet air with my pc internals.heres some pics\specs etc.take a glance then we can get this thread started.

my specs(nothing special really)

triple 120mm rad -black ice extreme

swiftech p655 pump

1\2in tygon r3603

danger den cpu block rd600 modded to go on my northbridge(works VERY well)

i have a crappy CAM phone so please ease back on the pokes at the crappy quality,lol i know there not good pics but u get the jist of it..some newer\older setups but generally the water setup same now still.


http://valid.canardpc.com/cache/banner/507250.png

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/bf2nut/mapc.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/bf2nut/1-1.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/bf2nut/2-1.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/bf2nut/ps3.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1.../bf2nut3-3.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1.../ramcooler.jpg

older setups....intel and amd single\dual core days 6800ultra,7900gtx,8800gts,8800gtx

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1...0gtx3700sd.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1.../bf2nut6-1.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1...t/IMG_1461.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1...t/IMG_1465.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/bf2nut/purty.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1...t/IMG_1460.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1...gotcooling.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1...t/IMG_1444.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1.../bf2nut4-1.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1.../bf2nut1-1.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1...tfanbf2nut.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1...t/trashram.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/bf2nut/88002.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1...termodding.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1...00nbon750i.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1...hotcloser1.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1...t/newshot1.jpg

yes i had been working with water a lil bit threw the years as u see if u clicked the links...been messin since the geforce2 quad pro days :o gamer for life,this is why gaming pcs are built =)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------

so lets get started...
ok i been into water cooling for like 5 or so years now and anytime my tubing would fog\haze up i simply would sigh and replace(yay).well i just did that and THIS TIME im thinking after MANY attempts with additaves\anti this anti that crap bleh that i can get it right....

the attempt is fo me to see how long its going to take my TYGON r-3603 (the good stuff) to fog\haze up and why being im only running distalled water this time around after a 3 hour flush session.the distalled water is ok im thinking being im going to flush it once a month now and see how that goes.


now i read scillion threads on this topic of tubing hazing\fogging and threw my own setup i have come to find out some facts for myself.

facts i found in my setup when fogging occurs below

*ANY primochill,zerex,fluid x-p,pc pure etc(plus the scillion other namebrands) additaves will DEFINATLY fog tubing.

*now a defeinate fogger to tubing is the pre-mixed colored fluids(yes they look cool for about a month tops) or WORSE yet the drops\bombs to intensify the color almost instantly fogs tubing when pc is off.then turn your pc on it looks faded,yay...great stuff we got options to buy..pfft.

*all tubing is like a sponge and when it dries(pump\pc off) whatever is left is literaly drying and staining the tubing period.the worst is with the colors like i was saying.


now im currently running just distalled water with NOTHING added and want to see how long it will stay clear.i also am going to easily flush this once a month...time will tell.

my question for any of u here is have u ever just run straight this stuff?if so what are the results?does it fog\haze?

well i orderd 3 bottles and going to fill my setup with it and see how it holds up fog\haze wise.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/feaqfaulpuwa.html

Feser Aqua - FA - Ultra Pure Water - 1 Liter $5.50 3 bottles $16.50
Subtotal: $16.50
Shipping: $16.45
Tax: $0.00
Total: $32.95

yes the shipping is the same as the water..lol i know.i could care less i want this stuff.

$33 for water,rofl...


we shall see.....keep u all posted.

I just buy my water at Shoppers Drug Mart right near my house. Dirt cheap! I make sure it's the stuff without fluoride. I find the fluoride is responsible for many chemical reactions in a loop. Some water is distilled but from fluoridated water source and has fluoride. Distilling does not get rid of it. But there is distilled water from non-fluoridated water and that I find is much much better and less chemical reactions.

I know a simialr thread went around a year or two ago and the result was plasticizer leeching out of the tubing and fogging.

I use only distilled water and get the fogging in a matter of days with 3603. Even if I simply place a pices of 3603 in a glass of distilled water, it fogs.

Many people tried the other variants of Tygon without plasticizer, but they were very stiff and made the tight turns difficult for our application.

Edit: here is the thread:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ht=plasticizer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snyxxx

I know a simialr thread went around a year or two ago and the result was plasticizer leeching out of the tubing and fogging.
Edit: here is the thread:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ht=plasticizer

---

Exactly your just reposting a thread instead of just digging.

Its the plastercizer dude. Those of us that dont use aftermarket coolants, and dont use dyes or additives of any kind dont have this problem.

Im using the same tubing ive used since the first build, and no clouding yet.

The trick is once u set it up, DONT DRAIN IT.

1.5 years and has yet to

B-44-4X Tygon tubing ftw

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Metric

1.5 years and has yet to

B-44-4X Tygon tubing ftw

---

blah.... FEHG!!!

your running the food and bervage tubing. :rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Exactly your just reposting a thread instead of just digging.

Its the plastercizer dude. Those of us that dont use aftermarket coolants, and dont use dyes or additives of any kind dont have this problem.

Im using the same tubing ive used since the first build, and no clouding yet.

The trick is once u set it up, DONT DRAIN IT.

---

The trick is once u set it up, DONT DRAIN IT


hmm...really?why not,if theres floaties caused by errosion of copper blocks,rad debris with water ripping threw it and u wanna flush em out.they will and can appear.i imagined draining or sucking with a shop vac like i do(takes 15 seconds tops)is fine then refill it.the inside of tubing doesnt have time to dry.anyways..

naeku---what are you running liquid wise?

the engy from tygon just called me btw...he said tygon r3603 has a higher water asboration rate then tygon 2075 but..only good til 50c or so.so u must keep it cooler.eg:no quad priming hittin 80 etc..

he also said this sounds good- http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/feaqfaulpuwa.html with a drop or 2 of antibacterial drops from aquarium store.he said that sounds like a winner for running what were doing.WITH flushing every 6 months or less for optimal performance and degration prevention of inner walls crap buildup.

i was explained to completely reuse the tubing by getting haze out is to autoclave it(steamed water)then dry heat...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by railmeat

The trick is once u set it up, DONT DRAIN IT


hmm...really?why not,if theres floaties caused by errosion of copper blocks,rad debris with water ripping threw it and u wanna flush em out.they will and can appear.i imagined draining or sucking with a shop vac like i do(takes 15 seconds tops)is fine then refill it.the inside of tubing doesnt have time to dry.anyways..

naeku---what are you running liquid wise?

the engy from tygon just called me btw...he said tygon r3603 has a higher water asboration rate then tygon 2075 but..only good til 50c or so.so u must keep it cooler.eg:no quad priming hittin 80 etc..

he also said this sounds good- http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/feaqfaulpuwa.html with a drop or 2 of antibacterial drops from aquarium store.

---

because when you drain, you then get additives to deposit along your walls which then accelerates it.

Dye, well you know what a dye is, and i find it suprising that you guys didnt think it wouldnt dye your tubing. :rofl:

So if your the type to drain and fill more often, you really dont want any additives in it.

I only run straight distilled with silver inside.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Exactly your just reposting a thread instead of just digging.

Its the plastercizer dude. Those of us that dont use aftermarket coolants, and dont use dyes or additives of any kind dont have this problem.

Im using the same tubing ive used since the first build, and no clouding yet.

The trick is once u set it up, DONT DRAIN IT.

---

If it's plastercizer, why would having coolants, dyes, additives even matter? Why would draining the loop or not draining it matter? This post makes no sense whatsoever....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hotdun

If it's plastercizer, why would having coolants, dyes, additives even matter. Why would draining or not matter. This post makes no sense whatsoever.

---

Read my explaination.

i said the additives will build up on your walls if you drain it, and then accelerate it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Read my explaination.

i said the additives will build up on your walls if you drain it, and then accelerate it.

---

how will additaves build up on your inner tubing walls if u FLUSH them out with a good 30min session looping fresh distalled water?


vs not flushing the old water u may have had threw a year or so with particle breakdown on components copper,alumin,slime,sludge,algae etc.. ..?

and your saying just plain distilled water no antibacterial drops?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

blah.... FEHG!!!

your running the food and bervage tubing. :rofl:

---

My R3606 clouded up on me in about 2 months, this has yet too. I'd love some insight on why you don't agree on my choice :shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Read my explaination.

i said the additives will build up on your walls if you drain it, and then accelerate it.

---

Your statement is not based on any testing or fact.....just a guess I bet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Metric

My R3606 clouded up on me in about 2 months, this has yet too. I'd love some insight on why you don't agree on my choice :shrug:

---

what fluid or u running(be specific)if u have mixed etc..your tubing is still like new?after 2 months...hmm


@hotdun...read post #12

@naekuh...do u have any pics of your setup?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Metric

My R3606 clouded up on me in about 2 months, this has yet too. I'd love some insight on why you don't agree on my choice :shrug:

---

No im saying im about to go on that tubing and use dyes to see if its really all that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hotdun

Your statement is not based on any testing or fact.....just a guess I bet.

---

ummm its based off my many years building.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by railmeat

how will additaves build up on your inner tubing walls if u FLUSH them out with a good 30min session looping fresh distalled water?

---

To most people a flush means drain and refill.

If you mean a complete flush, people have cleaned there tubing spot free with scrubbing bubbles, which also confirmed that it was a buildup on the tubing walls.

My Rig:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_1260.jpg

My Temps: (trust me i know what im doing when it comes to water)
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...la/Final-1.jpg

Disassembled my tubing after about 1 year of use, it was almost like new. Always used FESER as cooling fluid (only). Had EK waterblocks on motherboard, AquaComputer on video card and Swiftech Apogee GTX for the CPU. Laing pump, XSPC reservoir and Black ICE radiators. Corrosion: zero.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

No im saying im about to go on that tubing and use dyes to see if its really all that.

ummm its based off my many years building.

---

I was referring to your statement that:
"Those of us that dont use aftermarket coolants, and dont use dyes or additives of any kind dont have this problem."

This is just an assumption you've made...that's all....not fact and is frankly untrue. Adding fuel to the fire, see the post above....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hotdun

I was referring to your statement that:
"Those of us that dont use aftermarket coolants, and dont use dyes or additives of any kind dont have this problem."

This is just an assumption you've made...that's all....not fact. Adding fuel to the fire, see the post above....

---

no not using any additives or dye extends the life of your tubing.

this is fact.

You trying to pick a fight with me?

Draining your system allows the buildup to deposit on your walls, which is why srubbing bubbles takes it all off and returns the tubing clear.

It really sounds like your trying to pick a fight with me expecially since i know you know all this from previous discussions.

Cold enough in your house naek?

With a low of 19 degrees you're house must be 62ish degrees.

I figured it out. I bought colored tubes.

/fixed :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsaroth

Cold enough in your house naek?

With a low of 19 degrees you're house must be 62ish degrees.

---

Well the system was off, and i loaded realtemp on a cold boot, so yeah, the start temps was cold. :rofl:

But you can see my idles around 20-21C. You know that last core is always colder.

My coolant to air delta is never more then 2-3C when i bench and take those pictures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stealth42o

I figured it out. I bought colored tubes.

/fixed :up:

---

FTMFW!!! which is why most people go this route after a while.

I am going to have to agree with NaeKuh on this. The less additives the better on tubing. It just stands to reason that less chemicals and additives = less wear and chemical reactions. I tried dye bombs and other additives only to result in clogged blocks, stained tubes etc. Sure it may not happen to absolutely everyone and that is what we need to find out....WHY? Why is it one guy has only distilled and gets algae and another does not? Why does one guy get foggy tubes and another does not?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sadasius

WHY? Why is it one guy has only distilled and gets algae and another does not? Why does one guy get foggy tubes and another does not?

---

i'll say this once again.

if you ever owned a fish tank...

this statement holds true.

ALGAE IS LIKE THE ROACH IT WILL GROW ANYWHERE AND EVERYWHERE!!
Which is why you need to keep it in check b4 you see it. If you see it and then try to keep it in check, its already too late.


:ROTF:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sadasius

I am going to have to agree with NaeKuh on this. The less additives the better on tubing. It just stands to reason that less chemicals and additives = less wear and chemical reactions. I tried dye bombs and other additives only to result in clogged blocks, stained tubes etc. Sure it may not happen to absolutely everyone and that is what we need to find out....WHY? Why is it one guy has only distilled and gets algae and another does not? Why does one guy get foggy tubes and another does not?

---

"I am going to have to agree with NaeKuh on this. The less additives the better on tubing. It just stands to reason that less chemicals and additives = less wear and chemical reactions."

so true.less is more.


@naekuh...REALLY nice rig man!.do u have alink to that intel proggie u were burning in with?


check this out guys- Feser One & Feser Aqua Non-Conductive Coolants

THE pure water

"Feser Aqua is bi-distilled water and is specially designed for today's PC liquid cooling market.If you are seeking a pure, non conductive coolant with no dye pigments to corrupt the solution, then this is a 100% what you have been looking for!!Feser Aqua was filtered through 2 different processes of distillation, hence the term "bi-distilled". First the fluid passes through the reverse osmosis system, shortly after it runs into the down streamed de-ionized system. The PH-Value is 2.0 ~ 3.0 and lies in the acidic PH-range. "


http://reviews.pcapex.com/cooling/fe...a_coolants.php


decent read..
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=5&gl=us

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hotdun

I was referring to your statement that:
"Those of us that dont use aftermarket coolants, and dont use dyes or additives of any kind dont have this problem."

This is just an assumption you've made...that's all....not fact and is frankly untrue. Adding fuel to the fire, see the post above....

---

I might be new around here as registered but i have read these boards for awhile. My opinion here is if NaeKuh speaks its never BS. Naekuh and others who have been on here for a long time know their stuff and they are the reasons why I am going with Distilled water with (killcoils-iandh) silver. if you want color, i think just get UV tubing like Primochill Primoflex LRT tubing.

Hmm... note to self... uv tubing and feser pure water is what I want.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by moiraesfate

Hmm... note to self... uv tubing and feser pure water is what I want.

---

id honestly just goto the market and pick up a bottle of distilled.

It says distilled right on the jug.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

id honestly just goto the market and pick up a bottle of distilled.

It says distilled right on the jug.

---

Very true......and I cannot understand how the Feser "water" is called distilled at all. Distillation is defined as being steam distilled. Reverse Osmosis and de-ionizing water is just putting water through a couple of filters, not distilling it.

And btw, Sadasius, the notion that steam distillation doesn't remove fluoride is just wrong. Fluoride is completely removed when water is steam distilled......if your water is distilled and the label says it contains fluoride, it was added after the distillation process.


From the Cleveland Clinic, among a host of other sources:

Quote:

---

The amount of fluoride your family receives depends on the type of home water treatment system used. Steam distillation systems remove 100 percent of fluoride content. Reverse osmosis systems remove between 65 percent and 95 percent of the fluoride.

---

http://my.clevelandclinic.org/drugs/..._fluoride.aspx

speaking from personal experience, ive used almost every single form of coolant.

Ive used redline water wetter way back when we accepted mixing of metals.
Ive used Zerex Racing coolant
Ive used Phosphate free anti freeze, (both elythene and propylene)
Ive gotten anti freeze from a porsche dealer even. (Pentosin)
Ive used flournet, didnt last very long tho <meaning i had a leak and poof went all my flournet> (expensive as faq tho)
My list of Premixes also goes on for quite a while. :X

Dyes and colors, its fun, and i dont advice in never using them. Everyone needs there bling.
However sitting over a sink the next day with a toothbrush scrubbing your pins is not fun.
Getting very cloudy tubing is also not fun, expecially if you have OCD on your computer.

:T

I have used a variety of coolants and no matter which one I used the clear tubes always got cloudy. I do think that Feser One is a strong enough color that you don't really notice it as much, until you drain the coolant out of the loop and you're able to see your tubing in the flesh.

If I wanted colored coolant I'll use Feser One. If I want to make it simple and last a long time I'll use colored tubing and good ol distilled h2o. And I've even probably use colored tubing and Feser One coolant.

Between plasticizer leeching, radiator flux, contaminants, and the unknown there are just too many variables to have one good solution. Focus on minimizing each variable for your desired result.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

no not using any additives or dye extends the life of your tubing.

this is fact.

You trying to pick a fight with me?

Draining your system allows the buildup to deposit on your walls, which is why srubbing bubbles takes it all off and returns the tubing clear.

It really sounds like your trying to pick a fight with me expecially since i know you know all this from previous discussions.

---

Sorry not trying to pick a fight...tough day. All I'm saying is that the plactisizer release isn't accelerated by additives. I think additives may increase cloudiness of the tubing for other reasons but I've run straight distilled and still get the cloudiness.

My loop has been up for about a year, not a spot of clouding. I followed NaeKuh's advice, plain distilled and never drained. Not a cloudy spot one yet on two full loops.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gillbot

My loop has been up for about a year, not a spot of clouding. I followed NaeKuh's advice, plain distilled and never drained. Not a cloudy spot one yet on two full loops.

---

Plasticzer's in tubing are water soluable....

check the sticky by MaxxRacer .. stating that you HAVE to use a miniature water filter to junk out those dust, or some particles left over during sholdering of the rad

i used to think the plasticizers failed on me .. but atlast .. it's not the case
if plasticizers fail .. it means the whole tube literally crumbles .. yes, i mean crumbles .. just like recycleable plastic bags

but so far i could not find any findings on plasticizers failing or thinning of the tube ..

so just like the MaxxRacer said ... the leftover particles .. after filtering .. there's no more prob .. only slight gunk from the washing with pipe water instead of distilled

hope this helps

i have been using this is stuff http://www.petrastechshop.com/7id5odmagepu.html last 2-4 months with fesser veiw blue dye. nothing yet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by railmeat

Feser Aqua - FA - Ultra Pure Water - 1 Liter $5.50 3 bottles $16.50
Subtotal: $16.50
Shipping: $16.45
Tax: $0.00
Total: $32.95

yes the shipping is the same as the water..lol i know.i could care less i want this stuff.

$33 for water,rofl...


we shall see.....keep u all posted.

---

That's not water, that's acid....Fester even says so, just read the description. ;)

UV tubing and grocery store distilled water works for me. It used to drive me nuts having a UV dye run loop look like crap within just a couple of months, many times the dye would fade within just a few weeks. I haven't had the same problem since going UV tubing and ordinary grocery store distilled water. My reservoir and large clear King Flowmeters are just as crystal clear as they were when I filled it several months ago.

Nix the dyes and go clean water with a few drops of PTnuke. If you want color, go with UV colored tubing. You don't need fancy overpriced distilled or filtered water, your ordinary $1/gallon grocery store distilled water work just as well.

I just use black tubing I never has fogging issues and I maintain my loop quite well

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeKoS

My opinion here is if NaeKuh speaks its never BS. Naekuh and others who have been on here for a long time know their stuff

---

I tuned into this thread in order to read current opinions on clouding, not to see the latest excuses for why some people simply can't be wrong.

Quote:

---

and they are the reasons why I am going with Distilled water with (killcoils-iandh) silver. if you want color, i think just get UV tubing like Primochill Primoflex LRT tubing.

---

TBH, there have been many, many statements about what the best coolant is over the years, and like someone said, one person with X will get clouding, while another person who uses X won't. To me this means that the jury is still out.

I've used 50/50 antifreeze for my outdoor rigs with no degradation of my Tygon after nearly 4 years. Water will make some compounds of tubing cloud almost instantly. Nothing to do about it. I've also used PC Ice for at least 3 years with great results. Some dye may temporarily stain tubing. I find that white vinegar with water (10/90) instantly removes any stains or blush. ThermoChill rads will introduce a pink blush if not properly flushed first. I think anti-algae additives are ridiculous. If you have clean hands, clean tubes, clean parts (which they should be before you install) there is no chance of bacterial growth in a closed loop with distilled or purified water.

I can't believe that people still cling to the belief that algae mysteriously enters their pristine sealed loop and starts forming colonies...that's just nuts. If your fluid is pure there is absolutely no algae being introduced to your system. If you leave your loop open obviously airborne contaminants could introduce life...so don't run an open loop.

Most of the scudge people think is algae is the plasticizer leaching from the tubing.

Fog and Plasticizer-Leach are sometimes related...but not always.

The only way to truly avoid any issues with fog or other maintenance is to use something Like PC Ice. The stuff lasts for a long long time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Martinm210

UV tubing and grocery store distilled water works for me. It used to drive me nuts having a UV dye run loop look like crap within just a couple of months, many times the dye would fade within just a few weeks. I haven't had the same problem since going UV tubing and ordinary grocery store distilled water. My reservoir and large clear King Flowmeters are just as crystal clear as they were when I filled it several months ago.

Nix the dyes and go clean water with a few drops of PTnuke. If you want color, go with UV colored tubing. You don't need fancy overpriced distilled or filtered water, your ordinary $1/gallon grocery store distilled water work just as well.

---

This is exactly what my experience has been with exotic premix/homebrew coolant. I've been using a combination of $1/a bottle distilled, killcoils, some silver-plated barbs and LRT for 2-weeks. I know it's too early to tell, but so far I'm very please with the results. My res is crystal clear with no buildup along the water-line so far. I must say, after 8-years of trail-and-error, TRUE water cooling is pretty sweet! :D

I have been using a 50/50 glycol/water mix for 8 months now, and no clouding in Tygon R3603. My highest temps get between 50-60C.

The only reason I use the glycol/water mix is that I get it for free from a friend that works at Atmel, the semiconductor manufacturer... It is 99.99999999% pure, and is a perfect 50/50 mix. I figure if it is good enough for cooling a chamber in a fab, it is good enough for me. Best part is, it doesn't smell like antifreeze, because it is just the glycol, not the bad smelling/bad tasting additives they put in antifreeze to keep people from drinking it. It has no smell whatsoever.

Now, if only I had an outdoor radiator setup that could actually benefit from the Glycol.... Hehe

everyone read this FULLY::::::


i talked to the ENGINEER AGAIN today on the phone at TYGON and he said "tygon r3603" has a very hi water consumption rate vs tygon 2075" he also stated and this is straight from a TYGON engy "if u add ANY type of antifreeze,coolant,additave that even has thee slighest bit of color to it expecet clouding and hazing as the inner walls will asorb this and STAIN PERIOD".now glycol and other crap in these additaves are "safe" for the tubing but WILL STAIN FOG\HAZE.

thee best best is no DYES,any kind of additave at all minus a drop or 2 of antibacterial CLEAR drops,thee worst is colored products sites sell including anitfreeze etc.these are ONLY for tempoary looks and attempts to control temps.forget the hype,they ALL stain tubing.

distilled water,fesser 1 pure water,and colorless liquids containing no "harsh"siliates,glycol additaves will do the best.or even regular distilled water i guess...i dont care about the $30.i wanna see for myself and say i tried the best distilled water money can buy.my pc is worth it.i simply don,t want anymore headaches.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and for the guys calling fesser 1 aqua pure water not distilled.your WRONG its bi -distilled water,meaning twice distilled.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/feaqfaulpuwa.html


We have done it again with an even purer type of coolant, Feser Aqua which is a Bi-Distilled water (2 times distilled) and specially designed for today's PC water-cooling market.

If your seeking a pure non conductive coolant with no dye pigments to corrupt the solution then this is 100% what you have been looking for! Feser Aqua is the cleanest source on the market today. Feser Aqua or FA for short was filtered through 2 different processes of distillation, hence the term Bi-Distilled! Feser Aqua has to first of all passed through the reverse osmosis system, and shortly after this into the down streamed De-Ionized system. The PH-Value is 2.0 – 3.0 and lies in the acid ph-range.

---------------------------------------

will keep u guys updated when my fesser gets here,with photos.if u ppl are curiuos on how i exit all my water from my loop.....i use a shop vac on my exit line and in 20seconds its %99 out and ready to be refilled with this new fesser crap...bleh.

------------------------------------------------
as far as the NOT draining your loop ever theory goes.......ever see water trickle over mountains?the water actually threw the years cuts right threw rock!!its called the principle of erosion.

he explained water or ANY liquid moving threw\over metal composites will slowly break small parts per million(ppm)in your system and u SHOULD flush once a year or like im going to do every 6 months or so.worth it.im not replacing my tubing for awhile this time around hopefully.im not going to argue with a engineer from tygon...

all that is this big jug im showing you at an uber inflated price:

http://www.chemistryland.com/CHM107L...illedWater.jpg

and you just repeated everything i said in this thread. :rofl:

You just got conn'd by the fesser pure water BS. :X

From what I can gather, water has ph level of about 7. Distillation shouldn't change that. I wonder why the ph level of the feser aqua is down to 2-3. Or if that has any bearing on anything at all?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

all that is this big jug im showing you at an uber inflated price:

http://www.chemistryland.com/CHM107L...illedWater.jpg

and you just repeated everything i said in this thread. :rofl:

You just got conn'd by the fesser pure water BS. :X

---

dude i make $21 hour\$31.50 overtime,i could care less about the money.the fesser 1 PURE water looks better to me then $0.69 cent jug of distilled water.mabye your right...but mabye not.

you are right tho about running plain distilled water,bi-distilled or not.:up: and i would like to comment and your nice rig again.nice clean work...i like that.very rare.


heres my other rig(evil grin),i get conned i guess evertime to put full synthetic oil in it.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/bf2nut/car4.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/bf2nut/car3.jpg

My tubing gets fogged up when I blow throught it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hellcamino

My tubing gets fogged up when I blow throught it.

---

yes from hot air\condensation...not stained permantly.your off topic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TedShred

From what I can gather, water has ph level of about 7. Distillation shouldn't change that. I wonder why the ph level of the feser aqua is down to 2-3. Or if that has any bearing on anything at all?

---

the same reason that silenX fans can push 60 cfm and be rated at 16db. :rofl:

temperature comes into bearing, the amount of carbon dioxide that has yet dissolved into the water as it comes to equilibrium, who is testing it (and how honest they are), etc. Rain water commonly tests in the 5.4-6 ph range, and that's distillation at work (yes, there are pollutants in the air too). so, just saying that water has a ph of 7 leaves out so many variables.

still, unless the water is acidic, it should not have a ph of 2-3. wouldn't being more acidic be BAD for your loop?

yes, being more acidic would be bad.

your radiator won't be thanking you for it after prolonged use, especially if its at 2-3ph....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by railmeat

dude i make $21 hour\$31.50 overtime,i could care less about the money.the fesser 1 PURE water looks better to me then $0.69 cent jug of distilled water.mabye your right...but mabye not.

---

:T

money is still money

And you should be thankful in this economy. :T

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by railmeat

dude i make $21 hour\$31.50 overtime,i could care less about the money.

---

Here comes another "I make more money than you" pissing contest.

I make $5.50/hr picking up garbage, so what. Does that mean I'm not worthy of anything better?

I know 3603 will still "fog" even with pure distilled.

I know there is a post somewhere in here about a piece of 3603 placed into a cup of distilled water. A week later it was fogged. Remove from water and let it air dry, no more fog.

I think it is water absorption by the tubing that makes it look "fogged". I put a lot of heat intop my loop with only a PA 120.2 and maybe that affects this absorption rate :shrug: in comparison to those of you that do not notice this with pure distilled.

Mine always fog eventually.

For 2 years and 2 months (Dec. 07 to Feb 09) I ran the following loop:

Iwaki MD20RLZT (Polypropylene)
Cast red brass reducer coupling
Kynar (aka PVDF (Polyvinylidene fluoride)) plastic barbs / tee / couples
AquaXtreme MP-05 LE (nickel, copper, Delrin (Polyoxymethylene plastic))
Swiftech MCW50 (copper, Delrin (Polyoxymethylene plastic))
Nickel plated yellow brass barbs
Thermochill PA120.3 (yellow brass?)
Masterkleer 7/16" ID tubing (PVC, other?)
Distilled w/ PT_Nuke (CuSO4)
All components were cleaned/flushed with an OCD-level of clean - 3 sets of 18 hr soaks in vinegar/water solution with water flushes over 1 week for the radiator, as an example.

So a material breakdown of that is:
Nickel, copper, red brass, yellow brass, Polyvinylidene fluoride, Polyoxymethylene plastic, PVC, whatever else is in Masterkleer tubing, and CuSO4.

The entire loop was closed in a steel case with nil for external light. Here are my observations:

1. Tubing began to cloud ~1 year into use.
2. Only the loop clouded, not the stationary water in the fillport line.
3. Tubing noticebly cloudier ~ 2 years into use.
4. Fillport line still crystal clear.

I did have to top up the system every ~6 months - about 2 fl. oz. worth.
Math Warning: 6" roughly of the tubing (7/16") ~= 3.6 cubic inches of water. IIRC ~= 1.8 cubic inch to a fluid ounce.

Total water "consumption" ~ 1/3 of a fl. oz. per month.
When emptying the loop, the water was not cloudy, and the tubing remained cloudy even after flush & brush).

My Opinion: There is a reaction with the tubing, water, and light. My tubing clouded far slower than similar loops that were exposed to light (from my reading of the forums). The cloudiness was a result of water evaporating through the pores in the tubing, bringing with it various impurities resulting from the components in the loop - or, evaporation exacerbated by the pressure in the loop portion of the tubing as compared to the fillport line.

Final Thoughts: Cloudy tubing is an aesthetic issue only. If you absolutely must have clear tubing, find something non porous (:worship: $$$), or change your tubing every ~6 mo. (:worship: elbow grease). Also, the less you look at the tubing (less light), the clearer it will be (:rofl:).

The opinions expressed above do not reflect any expertise in chemistry, or maybe any science at all - someone else have at it.
-sfxs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by railmeat

everyone read this FULLY::::::


i talked to the ENGINEER AGAIN today on the phone at TYGON...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and for the guys calling fesser 1 aqua pure water not distilled.your WRONG its bi -distilled water,meaning twice distilled.
[bla bla bla feser marketing bla bla]
The PH-Value is 2.0 – 3.0 and lies in the acid ph-range.

---

Wow, dude, seriously, as Snyxxx posted at the beginning of this thread this has already been investigated:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marci

OK... starting to receive info from SaintGobain's Tech Dept... and word at the moment is that R3603 Tygon is NOT the tubing we should be using... they're still working thru the datasheets to find the perfect tubing for our purposes, but they've already stated that R3603 effectively isn't it, and that with the properties of our typical coolants, yes, it will cloud/stain over time. Adding ANYTHING which contains Glycol will worsen / speed up the staining.

Bear with me - more info as I get it...

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marci

Official word from Saint Gobain has come thru - Tygon 2075 is the best "clear" tubing they produce for our purposes. A bit stiffer (not as flexible) than R3603. They're sending me a sample...

---

And seriously.. 2-3 pH?

I have been running tests myself on Tygon R-3603 to see what was doing it and it has to be the tubing itself because I have tested pretty much everything that could be an outside influence and the damn stuff still fogged up. Thought the filter was helping but in the end it did not. I was using a 5 micron sediment filter to see if it was rad flux, metal corrosion or whatever. Did not work! Still fogged! I know the thread is a few months old but thought I would add to this anyway. Couple pics...

http://www.houseofottawa.com/test5/sys1.jpg

http://www.houseofottawa.com/test5/test3.jpg

http://www.houseofottawa.com/test5/filter2.jpg

Is the tubing still cloudy after you take it out and let it dry for some days?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brodholm

Is the tubing still cloudy after you take it out and let it dry for some days?

---

Yes. Well the stuff from all the tests have not all been left out for more then 6 hours so far but yeah the stuff taken from the build to put in the filter has a white powdery type coating. It's a very fine film.

Hmm, I took about 2 days for me before the tubing dried up. You could see on the sides first that it was drying. It was turning clear on the edges. And that tubing was only half a inch long.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brodholm

Hmm, I took about 2 days for me before the tubing dried up. You could see on the sides first that it was drying. It was turning clear on the edges. And that tubing was only half a inch long.

---

That's very interesting! I also had my R-3603 getting foggy after 2,5 weeks of holidays in Småland ( ;) )...I thought it was due to the mixture of my Innovatec-protect stuff, but when I saw that thread I was like "wtf, it's not only me having that problem" ^^

my masterkleer + distilled + silver didn't turn cloudy after 4 months of usage.

it did turn yellowish tho, but still clear. the last time i drained/filled in loop was about 3 months ago. i dont drain if i dont see any problems or change anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brodholm

Hmm, I took about 2 days for me before the tubing dried up. You could see on the sides first that it was drying. It was turning clear on the edges. And that tubing was only half a inch long.

---

I used about 4" of tube per test. It did clear very much after drying. It is not like the tubing in a loop at all with the thin film on the inside. I am wondering if the pressure or vacuum of a loop has a strong affect in making the plasticizer leach out more or differently. But it did not matter on what liquid from Distilled water without anything to Distilled shaken from parts or with PT Nuke. It all fogged up.

Saying "I tested pretty much everything and it is the tubing that caused the clouding" doesn't tell us anything about your testing methodology.

Please tell us the process you went through to determine that this 1/4" of sediment in your reservoir is all just plasticizer. I am having a hard time believeing all that sedimant came from 4" of tubing unless that tubing is now 1/8" larger on its inner diameter !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 3Z3VH

Saying "I tested pretty much everything and it is the tubing that caused the clouding" doesn't tell us anything about your testing methodology.

Please tell us the process you went through to determine that this 1/4" of sediment in your reservoir is all just plasticizer. I am having a hard time believeing all that sedimant came from 4" of tubing unless that tubing is now 1/8" larger on its inner diameter !

---

Who are you talking to? :shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sadasius

I have been running tests myself on Tygon R-3603 to see what was doing it and it has to be the tubing itself because I have tested pretty much everything that could be an outside influence and the damn stuff still fogged up.
... {Pictures} ...

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sadasius

Who are you talking to? :shrug:

---

You.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 3Z3VH

Please tell us the process you went through to determine that this 1/4" of sediment in your reservoir is all just plasticizer. I am having a hard time believeing all that sedimant came from 4" of tubing unless that tubing is now 1/8" larger on its inner diameter !

---

I never said anything like this at all. Hence why I was confused on who your were talking to. An if you want to know what I did then go here--> http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...did-cloud.html

With all the frikking crazy equipment people in these forums have access to, why has no one taken a sample of the white clouding in these tubes and brought it to a lab to find out what it is made up of ? Once we know what it is made of, we can find out where it comes from.

That was the next step actually that I was going to do. Just got to find a lab that will do it at a good price now.

Feser Aqua - FA - Ultra Pure Water


Description

Feser Aqua - The cleanest Source!

We have done it again with an even purer type of coolant, Feser Aqua which is a Bi-Distilled water (2 times distilled) and specially designed for todays PC watercooling market.

If your seeking a pure non conductive coolant with no dye pigments to corrupt the solution then this is 100% what you have been looking for!

Feser Aqua is the cleanest source on the market today.

Feser Aqua or FA for short was filtered through 2 different processes of destillation, hence the term Bi-Distilled!

Feser Aqua has to first of all passed through the reverse osmosis system, and shortly after this into the downstreamed De-Ionized system.

The PH-Value is 2.0 – 3.0 and lies in the acid ph-range.

Link: http://www.feser-one.com/site/produc...roducts_id=267
Link: http://www.feser-one.com/site/produc...roducts_id=255
Link: http://www.dangerden.com/store/files.../ex-liq-75.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Some Comparisons

Distilled water PH 7.0
Lemon Juice PH 2.3
Vinegar PH 2.4 - 3.4

Reference: http://extension.usu.edu/files/publi...wq_2005-19.pdf


Some One Screwed Up At Feser.

1. Reverse Osmosis is not a distillation process.
2. De ionization is not a distillation process.

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purifie...e-distillation
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_osmosis
Reference: http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/wat...di-process.htm

3. pH of distilled water is pH 7.0 and is thus neutral.

Feser's Advertising list's their water as having a pH 2.0 - 3.0. which is acidic.

The same acidity levels as either lemon juice or vinager.

This acidity level will definitely accelerate clouding of your tubes.

This needs to be corrected Feser!