CPU validation:
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=448873
Note that it's NOT an Engineering Sample. It appears to be a Retail-boxed processor.
Another person:
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=452168
Printable View
CPU validation:
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=448873
Note that it's NOT an Engineering Sample. It appears to be a Retail-boxed processor.
Another person:
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=452168
Haven't these been posted already to the another thread, Shanghai/Deneb review thread IIRC?
I cant wait to see the clock to clock comparison to the i7.
They initially appear to be clocking relatively the same.
I would love to see some real competition, its always good.
Bring it on....! :D
It's showing the L3 cache in K-Bytes
nice.. interesting.. wats clock for clock comparison with corei7 ? anyone got any info on that ?
Too bad it doesn't show voltage, are we talking 1.4v or 1.6v for example for those clocks.
Definitely not 1.4V. Stock vCore is ~1.35, and 4Ghz takes ~1.55V (Currently sxs112 has it at 1.575).Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD
I'm wagering ~1.6, on the far end.
However, if 1.4V was the last "safe" threshold of Intel 45nm Penryn chips, the Phen-IIs should at least get to 1.6-1.7V safely (this is by percentage to stock load vCore, since both are presumed to use majority domino logic).
Sweet vengeance.
So why do the CPUz pics show "Rated FSB" ?
Shouldn't this be "HTT Link" or something?
(I'm just reselling knowledge from the other thread... :yawn: )
Because it's not the original JPEG image. It's dynamically generated.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbalaban
They decided to use rated FSB for everything I think, even i7.
It's just semantics.
http://valid.canardpc.com/cache/screenshot/448873.png
This oc was under phase change (-40°) .
msn :)Quote:
Originally Posted by LOE
Thanks for the info, Thomas :-)
I need a board :D
I get the impression that Deneb operates under higher voltage level compared to Intel counterparts, but it's more tolerant to high voltage input too, so the end result is still about the same and the temperature seems to be under control too. Indeed, the only thing i really want to know is how this baby compared to Yorkfield clock per clock, especially at around 3.8-4.2 GHz with decent HTT OCing too. I already conceed that Core i7 should be faster, but that's not my concern at all, since i believe Deneb is positioned more of a Yorkfield competitor than its bigger brother, my budget is quite limited, gaming is the only heavy computer usage stuff that matter to me, and i plan on staying with DDR2 platform next year.
that's not very good?:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Pt1t
Why? Max I see from Q9400 with phase was 4.2GHz and 4.6GHz for Q9550 :shrug:
i'm taking it this processors multiplier is changeable? as x20 i wouldn't think it would come that way out of the box...
hopefully we can reach 4ghz on water.... when I buy one of these suckers I'm getting the CPU, mobo, new waterblock, and maybe an addition to my WC system...
Too bad that Both looks like a suicide shoots , just look at the memory clocks
guys, it's only -40c deegres.
with ln2 we can froze cpu to -100C
so don't panic :D:D:D:D
:rofl: "so don't panic" .That was so funny man :D.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatalbert
And they don't need phase for that, can be done on air and water... For Q9550 http://en.ripping.org/database.php?cpuid=634 and Q9400 http://www.ripping.org/database.php?cpuid=783 ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by AbelJemka
Trust me, this is definitely NOT a max out. Keep in mind that there is an NDA hanging over our heads.Quote:
Originally Posted by G-UNIT91
I never state that ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostbuster
Good for PII so :up:
I think you are wasting your time.Even though this was stated so many times(what can and what can't be shown),we have more and more post about "limited" oc headroom.Quote:
Originally Posted by dread77
Regardless of being a suicide shot or not. I have to congratulate AMD for its good work put on this processor, now we just need some benchmarks to see how it performs. This is a great addition to our community since the Phenon 1 was a disaster concerning issues and problems.
OKTABIT keeps them coming...Temps @ 3,8!!! Better believe it...:yepp:
http://oktabit.foracamp.gr/content/f...nglish-version
http://oktabit.foracamp.gr/content/f...#comment-10908
Is the voltage under NDA?:rofl::ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by dread77
I mean this is the last thing I could ever expect, by the way the link needs to be fixed.
28 degrees C idle temp @ 3.8Ghz on 9950's stock cooler :eek:
Ambient is 20C,so in line with normal ambient temps.
Thanks dread77 :D, awesome results! :up:
edit : Fixed link
I know :D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by informal
it must be :up: :ROTF:
:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Metroid
hmm, maybe it is extremely low ??
@dread77
show us vcore, I can't see reasons why voltage have to be censored ;)
nda ? f*** nda :D
ps
3.8 on "stock cooler" is nice :D
can you do 4ghz and show us temp ?
Those are idle temps, right?
Yes they are, check the image well. The temperature is the less to be concerned. We need some benchs.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbalaban
actually IF this CPU is capable of 6GHz benchable on LN2 it should EASILY pass 5GHz on SS screensQuote:
Originally Posted by Fatalbert
They ran Far Cry 2 and Crysis at 5+Ghz, so I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
glad i kept my SS (~ -45°C) :D
ofc it is but may this is not high mhz cpu and other retails will be better on froze like this (-40c)Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metroid
Well I am an Intel guy myself, but those AMD guys are pretty hard to convince...:ROTF:
I'm neither one of them. I just love the competition and how the technology progresses with it. The Intel's tick/tock is a fruit of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dread77
WTF, that's even lower than my ambient room temp, which is non conditioned in the hot & humid tropical climate of Jakarta. Dang, i'd certainly love to see what these babies average under water, i think my Swiftech Apogee GT, CoolIT dual ply 12*3 rad, and 1200 LPH AC pump would be glad to have a new playmate to screw around with next year.
IF no CB , LN2 will be under -170° :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
In the hemisphere north we are almost in the Winter ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by spursindonesia
THX,:up: YOU HAS GALVANIZE ME!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by dread77
I dont get the part of saying 'Intel Q9xxx' got to 'y' on air/water. Some golden Phenom II's might hit that as well, actually Im quite sure we'll see that, just dont quote me for that:p:
Besides that, this is a native quad core with IMC, those Intel's weren't. That's the very same reason Im far from impressed with the 'i7 record', although it's a record, it ain't impressing knowing Intel's previous achievements and as well that one of the first few (retail) steppings from AMD hit 700Mhz higher than that:rolleyes:
why are the ht/fsb & ram speeds so low in all these cpuz shots?
Only to -100C!!!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatalbert
More like -180C :hrhr:
My thoughts too... clocks are nice, if the performance is nice I don't mind if it's only at 4.5Ghz for most comon clockers... I will hold off till February before jumping on any new CPUQuote:
Originally Posted by Metroid
It's over, AMD is doomed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostbuster
Dirk Meyers will die if that voltage leaks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Metroid
I agree, the results thus far suggest the "leaked" amd shots are monstrous one of a kind cherry chips. That or 4.6ghz+ requires ln2 or a 3 stage cascade, which means although good chips, just match intel. Not bad and it means competition to the average joe who is not going core i7.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
However the lack of "leaked"(everything has been leaked already) game benchmarks I think is a sign that, game performance is lacking.
since when we started believing software for temps? even more with unreleased products that most of the time dont have full software support.
Temps are not important you just need to know MHz headroom :)
How is game performance lacking? It is basically the same as the old Phenom performance, with some improvements.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
People should get that the BIG thing about Phenom II/Deneb is indeed the OC and power draw, not the performance gains really. Only slight gains over Phenom. ...until the overclocking steps in and all the tables roll over and turn upside down due to great OC capabilities.
AMD will be showing off their stuff in few hours at San Fran. If they had something to hide, they would not hold these events. ;)
All the leaks have possibly been more or less under NDA, and only good few people have guts to show stuff at all. Besides, usually it is Intel and Nvidia that leak stuff, AMD keeps everything so secret that even their CEO barely knows what's going on... ;)
AMD wants people to talk. Talk about Phenom II. Thus the small leaks here and there.
At least for me load temps matter quite a bit. It directly correlates with the power draw, which then has it's small influence in the power bill and temperature of the other components in the case. It also gives some insight about the quality of the stock cooler and max oc with it. Idle temps, useless... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.cl
That doesn't mean software readings are correct. My E6600 temp readings are always 15c higher then my E6400 at the same volt and speed settings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calmatory
the e6600 runs hotter because it has 2 more meg. of cacheQuote:
Originally Posted by ownage
AFAIK the temp readings were taken with a board with AMD chipset, AMD CPU, and the software was provided by AMD. Can't talk about "unreleased hardware", when the chipset and software teams have been toying with each other for months prior to this, and Deneb is basically Agena with optimizations and bigger L3, shouldn't be too tricky to get everything working. :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
But yeah, cool chip with 125 W TDP. I doubt it.
Interesting conclusion based on...based on what?Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
Looks like they are like 10% faster than phenoms (kinda matching initial kenthsfields), so the biggest difference is in OC potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by saveus222
If everything goes well like it seems, they will be competitive in price/oc/performance :)
I feel clock for clock this is going to come out equal in performance to Yorkfield since its just an optimization of older technology. We can't expect miracles when you think about it realistically. I sure hope so its on par with i7 but I'm skeptical at this moment since there is not much from AMD about its performance in clock for clock terms- YES it clocks like SEX but how about that clock for clock situation ? :rolleyes:
Based on Shanghai results the IPC improvement can be from 5 to 10 %. So, take Agena results, multiply with the OC you want out from the Deneb and there you are. The IPC improvement will compensate the fact that no OC is 100 % efficient. Now we can debate whether or not that is the most accurate way right now.. :rolleyes: But at least it gives some inital info what to expect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calmatory
That is the whole point ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
No, not true. It has 4mb but only 2mb is used. And 2mb cache could never make a 15c temp difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by hstuehmeyer2000
I also noticed 10c difference between two e7200 cpu's.
It's because of manufacturing variations that effect static leakage (eg. variations to gate oxide thickness), simple as that. A delta of 15C is certainly feasible.Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
Well guys went to the small conference they had for the Dragon Platform aka Deneb(Phenom II). They had the deneb oc'd to 5.8Ghz stable running the crysis bench. Pretty nice...they had the vcore up to 1.92(will probably pop the QX9650) on LN2. No coldbugs @ -140 are you serious?. I am very impressed!!! Its time for AMD to redeem themselves. AMD hit home run with this cpu. Best thing is they run stable on the 790GX no problems what so ever, had cpu-z pushed to 6.3Ghz. Were talkin a $275 cpu according to the AMD reps. Sure looks like there is definately going to be some heavy competition against the I7. Still compatible with AM2+ sockets...the Gigabyte GA-MA790GP-DS4H seems to be pushing the Deneb pretty good.
Thanks for the info!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage1Ocer
Was all OC on air done on raising the multiplier or they done some HT OC too? Was there a Phenom 2 920 there, and if yes how much would it OC?
Also, $275 for the 940 is the retail price (MSRP) or the bulk price?
I want to see benchmarks and stable, safe 24/7 OCs on good air cooling.... suicide shots aren't interesting IMO.
I've already decided to go with i7 but I want to see AMD nail this CPU launch and get a real competitor to the Yorkfields. The results we have are looking like a huge improvement over Agena but I still want to see meaningful benchmark results. In addition I'm wondering about the voltage of Deneb, it seems like the stock voltage is higher than on Agena; why is this so and is Deneb really safe at 1.5V+?
Just wondering, how far can that PII hit on air only? Suicides included... and what is the highest stable frequency, roughly.. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dread77
I have spend it much money for a superWC for DENEB FX:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostbuster
some of us want 24/7 temps, phase being ideal :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Fatalbert
How long was it running crysis at this frequency?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage1Ocer
I was wondering the same thing. Wasn't the athlon leaks in similar fashion? Or were there leaked game benchmarks prior to release?Quote:
Originally Posted by AbelJemka
It depends if it was looping.That Crysis cpu test lasts a couple of minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solus Corvus
Thanks but I already know that. What I wanted to know is how long the people there saw the bench running at that clock. Did they just run it in a loop for 10 minutes and take it down or was it looping that way for the entire event (however long that was).Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
Well, they probably would have had to have a dedicate ln2 guy to just stand there all night and poor it in. I doubt they did that.
Well, if it was loaded for a long time I think they would have rightfully bragged about it lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Solus Corvus
Since they doesnt say for how long, I'd assume first run :yepp:
some of us thought about that couple months ago :DQuote:
Originally Posted by villa1n
intel go the ... away, no coldbugs amd is coming :rotfl:
I believe the initial reports that it was looping for the entire presentation, however long that took.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonucci
If thats the case than :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stukov
Thinking about this.... this is like pre-labor pains, false contractions to actual birth -- the anxiety is almost unbearable.
Here's an interesting result on i7 - 105C on a 4G OC!!! now THAT's hot!:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Calmatory
http://www.tbreak.com/articles/13/1/...ing/Page1.html
The 965EE running stock is 77C at load.
A friend of mine who has been testing i7 says gaming performance is 'disappointing' compared to his previous Intel OC results, and that the chip runs up against the 130W TDP protection (and clocks down) pretty quickly. When he turns off TDP protection, the chip gets hotter than a firecracker.
deneb looks to be running very cool - one poster shows 38C at 3.6G on air :up:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=354
I'm sure we will see a lot more benchmarks in a few weeks when the AMD tester NDA is lifted. But from what has been leaked, it looks like these chips will produce a lot less heat while running at or better than i7 in most real world situations. And, they plug in to existing boards, so a buyer is looking at <$300 to upgrade versus board, ram and processor for i7 ~$800 or more. Also a lot easier to pop in a CPU than re-rig a whole box.
They also seem to be available in the channel and some retail chips are being put out for 'evaluation' - http://siliconinvestor.advfn.com/rea...msgid=25275998
I think a realistic expectation is that it will be closer to the core quad on a clock for clock basis. The only realistic scenario where a Phenom II will likely beat an i7 is under extreme overclocking in benchmarks that favor high clock speeds. I look forward to some reviews.
disappointing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Jimbo
Overclocking a quadcore 2.67ghz to almost 4.4ghz bootable on stock cooling is disappointing? I can't remember any other cpu architecture other then wolfdale (dualore) doing that.
If you compare Nehalem with a Kentsfield both on 3.6ghz Nehalem will be faster and won't get hot. If you compare a Nehalem with a Yorkfied, both on 4ghz, the Nehalem gets hotter. But who cares? Nehalem is still faster.
Even when Deneb won't get as hot as Nehalem, its allot slower actually.
In the end temps don't matter, but the performace and price does.
I will buy a Yorkfield because I already own 4gb ddr2 and a P35 board, or I will spend more money and get a Phenom2. If I had the money, I would buy Nehalem.
Opteron.Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
Although I wouldnt care, it's just funny as K10 was all crap, also because of the horrible temps:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
In what applications, because that's really a very wierd statement as i7 hardly beats Yorkfield in some cases while gaming:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
If you've already a fully Intel system it's indeed the best way to get a PhII. Although AM2+/AM3 platform is cheap, if you've got to purchase most of it, it's still money:yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
Opteron isn' exactly desktop stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteiner
Let me explain ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteiner
Performance and price is important is what I said.
I compared Deneb with Nehalem and not with Yorkfield in this statement.
It depends on the money you have to spend.
And yes at this moment Nehalem is not much faster then Yorkfield so indeed if you look at the price Yorkfield might be a better buy.
The fun thing about Deneb is unlocked multiplier for a 'normal' price. Good boards for a decent price. PhII + DFI m2rs would be awesome. I always wanted to own a DFI board :D
Well, I meant the old socket 939's of course;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
I know, but what I meant is that, although far from everybody plays games, if you look at gaming Nehalem doesnt do a whole lot better in some cases. Since Agena already was pretty much around (read not equal) Yorkfield, it's quite weird to say Deneb would be a lot slower;) If you dont game though, but do some heavy mutitasking, hands off:p:Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
Certainly. i7 is attractive because it starts to feature certain things K10 already did, but now only the price (and the availability at launch was... usual again):rolleyes: So sod that really, for me then.Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
DFI's board is nice, although I do advice to take care of the MOSFET cooling, serious.Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
He had an E8800 at 3.8G and says that his gaming performance was as good or better than i7 at 3.8G, and cooler too. At 4G the i7 is somewhat faster but way too hot for his taste and takes a big noisy cooler. I don't do any gaming so I don't really know.Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
Does your friend know a quad/8 threads mean jack if a game can't take advantage of it? An E8800? Are those out yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Jimbo
Ah and that is where you are mistaken. If you lived in a hot climate like say central florida where it is not unheard of to have 30-35c* ambient temps, heat is a HUGE deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
My old intel Q9300 box used to heat my room up into the 90*F range and made my gaming experience absolutely unbearable. I had to redirect the central AC of the house to my room and open the door and add box fans to keep myself cool enough to not be miserable.
Deneb having a much more manageable heat load is the main reason I am going to it (note I have the money to go i7 but chose not to) :up: With i7 having 80c*+ load temps it is absolutely out of the question for me to purchase unless I get a window mounted AC unit (also out of the question).
Very good point. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentential
I think some people need a wakeup call regarding temperatures. There is a reason 3Ghz Phenom is 125W TDP, or even 95W if you want for the 2.8Ghz AM3 version.
AMD uses an uncalibrated sensor. Intel uses a calibrated one inside the hottest part of the core(s). Plus there is the tjmax etc values. Do I even have to tell that story? Its only recently we got actual track on 45nm Core 2s.
For some odd reason the power consumption=heat have been lost somewhere for a bunch of people. Lets be honest here. If CPU A uses 100W and CPU B uses 100W. Then 1 CPU wont be 60C and the other one 30C unless their cooling solution is pretty different. Its only different in the illusion.
Here is a cute example. 3 programs. 3 different temperatures.
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5...enshot1uv9.jpg
http://download.intel.com/design/pro...nex/320837.pdf
Quote:
PDF doc pg 46 wrote:
Intel does not test any third party software that reports absolute processor
temperature. As such, Intel cannot recommend the use of software that claims this
capability. Since there is part-to-part variation in the TCC (thermal control circuit)
activation temperature, use of software that reports absolute temperature can be
misleading.
See the processor datasheet for details regarding use of IA32_TEMPERATURE_TARGET
register to determine the minimum absolute temperature at which the TCC will be
activated and PROCHOT# will be asserted.
You point about power draw is very valid. However what you fail to note is that there is a difference between power draw and heat dissipation. Simply because you make a chip with a low wattage count does not gaurntee that it will not spew all of the power as heat disspation due to leakage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Phenom = High Power Draw + SSDOI = Low Leakage = Low Temps
i7 = Lower Power Draw + High K = High Leakage = High Temps
Also you need to factor that Intel and AMD historically measure TDP differently. One is theoritcal TDP max (AMD) the other is normal operating enviroment (Intel)
For CPUs, one can safely assume every watt consumed by it will turn into heat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentential
But the power measurements of the last 2.5 years indicate that this is no longer the case.Quote:
Also you need to factor that Intel and AMD historically measure TDP differently. One is theoritcal TDP max (AMD) the other is normal operating enviroment (Intel)
In a CPU power is used for 2 things. 1 is radiation. 2 is heat. And lets agree first that any radiation is so tiny its useless to count. Everything else is heat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentential
You dont pump 100W into a CPU and have say some 50W go somewhere else and 50W gets turned into heat.
100W power=100W heat in a CPU.
There is abundant evidence both here in XS and throughout the web that i7 runs hot and Phenom II does not. An informed reader knows this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
AMD has given us a great gift for Christmas (for delivery on Jan.8). Let's not look a gift horse in the mouth, so-to-speak.
Kinda like the Illusion that Intel is a Better Platform then AMD? Thats the Biggest Illusion and B.S yet everyone swears its true:shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Then if this were true explain:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7301204.html
SOI by its design was made to combat heat related leakage hence Phenom runs cooler than Intel chips as a whole while power draw remained higher.Quote:
US Patent 7301204 - SOI component with increased dielectric strength and improved heat dissipation
http://engineering.dartmouth.edu/mic.../194sem_1.html
Quote:
I. Introduction: What is SOI and why is it useful?
The term silicon-on-insulator refers to a group of technologies in which a thin layer of single crystal silicon is formed over a layer of insulator. The primary objective is to fabricate electronic devices in the silicon layer. The advantages of circuits formed in this manner over those formed in a uniform silicon substrate are principally the following:
Reduced parasitic capacitance
Electrical isolation of devices
Increased resistance to radiation
That is not what he says, that is what you make of it. I don't see anything wrong with his statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Esau
And change your sig man, it hurts my eyes.
Your point is supported by the measured evidence. Here is a clue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentential
Quote:
AMD's transistors exhibit very low channel leakage. Our transistor benchmarks indicates that leakage current is less than one-third of the value measured on AMD's 65-nm process. It's also significantly lower than the Intel 45-nm HKMG process. In fact the Ion/Ioff ratio for AMD's PFET is nearly 10 times better than that for the Intel PFET.
Ty :up: People have such short memories and forget why AMD went to such lengths to get SOI working in the first place. Also ironically enough the reason why Phenoms wont clock worth a damn is the same reason they run cooler than Intel chips. SOI does not scale well at higher switching frequencies hence AMD will never have the clock advantage against Intel unless Intel is hampered by heat related leakage. HINT HINTQuote:
Originally Posted by Jazzman
So where does the power used go? Conservation of energy dictates it must go somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentential