Core i7 940 Review Shows SMT and Tri-Channel Memory Let-down

Printable View

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

10-13-2008, 04:07 AM
Blacky

Core i7 940 Review Shows SMT and Tri-Channel Memory Let-down

http://www.techpowerup.com/images/news/intel.gif

Core i7 940 Review Shows SMT and Tri-Channel Memory Let-down
As the computer enthusiast community gears up for Nehalem November, with reports suggesting a series of product launches for both Intel's Core i7 processors and compatible motherboards, Industry observer PC Online.cn have already published an in-depth review of the Core i7 940 2.93 GHz processor. The processor is based on the Bloomfield core, and essentially the Nehalem architecture that has been making news for over an year now. PC Online went right to the heart of the matter, evaluating the 192-bit wide (tri-channel) memory interface, and the advantage of HyperThreading on four physical cores. In the tests, the 2.93 GHz Bloomfield chip was pitted against a Core 2 Extreme QX9770 operating at both its reference speed of 3.20 GHz, and underclocked to 2.93 GHz, so a clock to clock comparison could be brought about.

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/08-10-13/35d.jpg

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/08-10-13/35c.jpg

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/08-10-13/35b.jpg

The evaluation found that the performance increments tri-channel offers over dual-channel memory, in real world applications and games, are just about insignificant. Super Pi Mod 1.4 shows only a fractional lead for tri-channel over dual-channel, and the trend continued with Everest Memory Benchmark. On the brighter side, the integrated memory controller does offer improvements over the previous generation setup, with the northbridge handling memory. Even in games such as Call of Duty 4 and Crysis, tri-channel memory did not shine.

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/08-10-13/35h.jpg

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/08-10-13/35l.jpg

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/08-10-13/35m.jpg

As for the other architectural change, simultaneous multi-threading, that makes its comeback on the desktop scene with the Bloomfield processors offering as many as eight available logical processors for the operating system to talk to, it appears to be a mixed bag, in terms of performance. The architecture did provide massive boosts in WinRAR and Cinebench tests Across tests, enabling SMT brought in performance increments of roughly 10~20% with general benchmarks that included Cinebench, WinRAR, TMPGEnc, and Fritz Chess. With 3DMark Vantage, SMT provided a very significant boost to the scores, with about 25% increments. It didn't do the same, to current generation games such as Call of Duty 4, World in Conflict and Company of Heroes. What's more, the games didn't seem to benefit from Bloomfield in the first place. The QX9770 underclocked at 2.93 GHz, outperformed i7 940, both with and without SMT, in some games.

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/08-10-13/35f.jpg

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/08-10-13/35e.jpg

For more information visit Techpowerup
10-13-2008, 04:14 AM
Hoboclese

I'm not really that good with this stuff but is this because of bloomfield's large L3 cache and smaller L2?
10-13-2008, 04:37 AM
G.Foyle

L3 latency is usually slightly lower on Bloomfield than L2 latency on Yorkfield. Also Bloomfields L3 is a bit smaller than Yorkfields L2. I guess Nehalems cache system will start to shine in 3+ threaded apps, where shared L3 will definitely outperform two L2s connected by FSB and with doubled data.
10-13-2008, 04:39 AM
Eastcoasthandle

P4 Deja vu: The search for the threaded apps.

Here we go again...:shakes:
10-13-2008, 04:46 AM
bigslappy

sub'd
10-13-2008, 04:54 AM
Shintai

Still same same old pconline review. Nothing new from the last 17 times its been posted from the same site.
10-13-2008, 04:55 AM
duploxxx

oh now this will become a nice flaming thread... All i have to say about and said in the past for the nehalem threads:

When SMT is added value you will see huge advantage see the winrar/cinebench/tpgenc. Most improvements can be seen in benching and multithreading will improve. (finally 1 reason to switch to intel part if deneb fails to launch @ higher speed and oc then current phenom)

for the rest clock/clock it will be more or less the same to york depending on the apps, some wins some losses. Might get better for nehalem if ddr3 mem settings improves.
nice if you have to buy a new system, no worthy upgrade from york, for sure not with the rather expensive mobo + ddr3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shintai

Still same same old pconline review. Nothing new from the last 17 times its been posted from the same site.

and for sure you as one of the main blue bunnies around here has several comments regarding this review......
10-13-2008, 04:59 AM
Eastcoasthandle

It's odd that multithreading is considered "downlevel".
source

More on how DX11 will effect multithreading here. It will be interesting to see what performance is seen from DX11 specific apps.
10-13-2008, 04:59 AM
Jacky

OP, a mixed bag is not a let-down. It is only a let-down if people believed the substantial hype as to SMT and desktop apps. Quite to the contrary, w/o SMT Nehalem would have very weak IPC overall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

P4 Deja vu: The search for the threaded apps.

Here we go again...:shakes:

You're wrong and you know it I guess? I suppose you phrased your opinion a little provocative on purpose? A. there are lots of threaded apps, but quite a lot only go up to 2 threads B. there are also some apps scaling with n-threads, just not enough on the desktop.

I'm just wondering if I'm the only one reading the TMPGEnc data right? Or am I the only one reading it wrong?

(1) http://diy.pconline.com.cn/cpu/revie...426985_12.html
(2) http://diy.pconline.com.cn/cpu/revie...1438115_8.html
If the 2.93ghz Q9770 produces a higher number than the 3.2ghz Q9770 (1,2) it means that "lower is better" in this test (the graph description is Chinese so we have to guess); thus Nehalem is the worst with SMT on, but when you disable it, then Nehalem leads the pack. (2)
Whereas the article by techpowerup and some other copycat article made it seem as if Nehalem was faster w/ SMT on?
10-13-2008, 05:05 AM
Eastcoasthandle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacky

OP, a mixed bag is not a let-down. It is only a let-down if people believed the substantial hype as to SMT and desktop apps. Quite to the contrary, w/o SMT Nehalem would have very weak IPC overall.

You're wrong and you know it I guess? I suppose you phrased your opinion a little provocative on purpose? A. there are lots of threaded apps, but quite a lot only go up to 2 threads B. there are also some apps scaling with n-threads, just not enough on the desktop.

I'm just wondering if I'm the only one reading the TMPGEnc data right? Or am I the only one reading it wrong?

(1) http://diy.pconline.com.cn/cpu/revie...426985_12.html
(2) http://diy.pconline.com.cn/cpu/revie...1438115_8.html
If the 2.93ghz Q9770 produces a higher number than the 3.2ghz Q9770 (1,2) it means that "lower is better" in this test (the graph description is Chinese so we have to guess); thus Nehalem is the worst with SMT on, but when you disable it, then Nehalem leads the pack. (2)
Whereas the article by techpowerup and some other copycat article made it seem as if Nehalem was faster w/ SMT on?

No, it's not me being wrong vs posting an opinion on a mix bag. A similar mix bag we saw from the P4 back in the day.
10-13-2008, 05:31 AM
Warboy

well, Then if this is reliable then the old Cinebench-R10 benches we've seen are not R10 but R11. Lmao....
10-13-2008, 05:34 AM
Bellisimo

looks a bit like the results i expected, but well, 1 month to go :)
10-13-2008, 05:46 AM
tiro_uspsss

& yet again 3D Mark Vantage shows its useless-ness :down: :shakes: :rolleyes:
10-13-2008, 05:53 AM
Slovnaft

ohe noes nehalem floppzingg1>?

idk if i'd trust these benches. i'm not sure why. i'm waiting to draw conclusions though.
10-13-2008, 06:02 AM
Shintai

The first 2 slides posted is loading times if people should be in doubt. Its obvious that techpowerup dont know what it is.

Quote:

Even in games such as Call of Duty 4 and Crysis, tri-channel memory did not shine.

It says time to enter screen in rough direct translation. And the little sign 秒 is seconds.

Pretty sad when people copy/paste some either halfasses translated chinese through babelfish/google language or simple just guesses.

Fang Chou Pi! ;)
10-13-2008, 06:21 AM
Slovnaft

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shintai

The first 2 slides posted is loading times if people should be in doubt. Its obvious that techpowerup dont know what it is.

It says time to enter screen in rough direct translation. And the little sign 秒 is seconds.

Pretty sad when people copy/paste some either halfasses translated chinese through babelfish/google language or simple just guesses.

Fang Chou Pi! ;)

And that would be much more affected by hdd speed.
10-13-2008, 06:29 AM
Shintai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slovnaft

And that would be much more affected by hdd speed.

Hence trichannel dont offer much. Perhaps if they used an SSD... ;)

Its just overall a very bad thing to measure "trichannel" with.
10-13-2008, 06:36 AM
NOFX

Core i7 CPU -not for a gamers? :shrug:
10-13-2008, 06:38 AM
Hornet331

lol why does this preview pops up every once a week as news?

how old is this, 1 month?

Sad to see that some news sites dont even look at the date when the original was published...
10-13-2008, 06:54 AM
Metroid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hornet331

lol why does this preview pops up every once a week as news?

how old is this, 1 month?

Sad to see that some news sites dont even look at the date when the original was published...

That is the problem, the published date could be 09/10/2008 USA (September) or 09/10/2008 Europe (October). I think this was published 4 days ago. We also had this posted in Nehalem thread, nothing enormous to have its own thread.

I suppose we have to wait for more reviews before we say our conclusions, too little.

Metroid.
10-13-2008, 06:55 AM
[XC] Synthetickiller

News too me, but I've been busy.

This makes me wanna buy a new board and push my q6600 harder. If nehalem turns out to be more of a dud than a stud, well, socket 775 will live on a lot longer for me than I anticipated.
10-13-2008, 06:56 AM
Shintai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metroid

That is the problem, the published date could be 09/10/2008 USA (September) or 09/10/2008 Europe (October). I think this was published 4 days ago. We also had this posted in Nehalem thread, nothing enormous to have its own thread.

I suppose we have to wait for more reviews before we say our conclusions, too little.

Metroid.

Its over a month old...september 10th.
10-13-2008, 06:59 AM
informal

In original pconline review there was no tri-channel or SMT comparison IIRC,so this is worthy to be a new thread.
10-13-2008, 07:03 AM
shiznit93

It boils down to this. If a game has a working set large enough to constantly thrash the 256KB L2 on Nehalem, it will most likely run faster on Penryn.
10-13-2008, 07:05 AM
Metroid

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shintai

Its over a month old...september 10th.

So maybe this could help us to determine the date they used.
10-13-2008, 07:08 AM
Blacky

would be interesting to see old skulltrail vs new one when releases...
10-13-2008, 07:12 AM
Slovnaft

I heard i7 'skulltrail' was dropping in 09, has there been any developement there?
10-13-2008, 07:15 AM
Movieman

We'll see..soon..:rofl:

Tracking number
xxxxxxxxxxxx

Ship date
Oct 9, 2008

Estimated delivery
Oct 14, 2008 by 4:30 PM

Destination
Litchfield, NH

Service type
Express Saver

Weight
7.0 lbs.

Status
Departed FedEx location
10-13-2008, 07:15 AM
Metroid

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

In original pconline review there was no tri-channel or SMT comparison IIRC,so this is worthy to be a new thread.

Which is related to Nehalem, the KICS definition works better for a case like this and besides this is an ES hard to swallow easily :D.

Metroid.
10-13-2008, 07:33 AM
Slovnaft

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

We'll see..soon..:rofl:

Tracking number
xxxxxxxxxxxx

Ship date
Oct 9, 2008

Estimated delivery
Oct 14, 2008 by 4:30 PM

Destination
Litchfield, NH

Service type
Express Saver

Weight
7.0 lbs.

Status
Departed FedEx location

What's this? What're you referring to?
ohmygoodness the mmystery!
10-13-2008, 07:37 AM
P-Dub

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metroid

That is the problem, the published date could be 09/10/2008 USA (September) or 09/10/2008 Europe (October).

I think this would a lot clearer if America took it head out of its arse and actually wrote the date correctly as in the 9th day of the 10 month of the 2008th year.... The only country on earth that writes its date in such an idiotic way...

As ref the article, i'm all of a dither about Nehalem, and as normal the first set of benchies dont show when the platform is capable of since the benchies are designed for test an old platform, not a new one, same thing with the switch from single to dual channel, assuming most of you guys can remember that far back. Its a wait and see case i think, particularly interested in the results Movieman will get...

Dubz
10-13-2008, 07:56 AM
Katanai

Well if I'm reading those graphs right the Yorkfield is faster in Call Of Duty 4 and the i7 in World in Conflict. So we have a 1000$ cpu and a 500$ cpu and they are 50% 50% in games so far. Also remember that World in Conflict is one of those strange games that don't scale that good whatever you throw at it. Maybe Intel have made this architecture to address exactly those areas where the Yorkfield didn't shine. Or maybe yeah this is just another P4, the evidence to that is starting to mount up also...
10-13-2008, 08:00 AM
Mechromancer

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiro_uspsss

& yet again 3D Mark Vantage shows its useless-ness :down: :shakes: :rolleyes:

On point! BUT, it does give us an idea of how great a game engine could be if the damn thing was highly multi-threaded. We will see some amazing things happen to K10 and Nehalem when Windows 7 and DX11 show up. Right now though, 8 threads is pretty useless outside of Vantage LOL.
10-13-2008, 08:03 AM
Jacky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

No, it's not me being wrong vs posting an opinion on a mix bag. A similar mix bag we saw from the P4 back in the day.

I just think if a feature substantially increases IPC overall and in the target market, but decreases it in some cases it's a mixed bag, not a let-down. We can call it a failure or let-down for the tested games, though, if that makes all of us happy. :D

Does anyone want to explain to me the TMPGEnc data? Were all the "(p)reviews" that "borrowed" the data from the Chinese wrong?
10-13-2008, 08:08 AM
Mechromancer

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-Dub

I think this would a lot clearer if America took it head out of its arse and actually wrote the date correctly as in the 9th day of the 10 month of the 2008th year.... The only country on earth that writes its date in such an idiotic way...

As ref the article, i'm all of a dither about Nehalem, and as normal the first set of benchies dont show when the platform is capable of since the benchies are designed for test an old platform, not a new one, same thing with the switch from single to dual channel, assuming most of you guys can remember that far back. Its a wait and see case i think, particularly interested in the results Movieman will get...

Dubz

Dude, we write it that way because we speak it that way, ie. "Today is October twelfth two-thousand eight." Also you Brits are the ones that brought it over in the first place so blame yourself! LOL

Now back to the OP (sorry for not combining both posts), It is a good thing that we don't see much of a gain going from dual to triple channel DDR3! I can buy a 1.5v 4GB G.Skill DDR3-1333 for $125:Links!

Now only if those X58 motherboards are "reasonably" priced and not $399.99, it would make sense to wait for Core i7. I'll bet good money there will be motherboards more expensive than the Core i7 2.66Ghz 940.
10-13-2008, 08:17 AM
Metroid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacky

I just think if a feature substantially increases IPC overall and in the target market, but decreases it in some cases it's a mixed bag, not a let-down. We can call it a failure or let-down for the tested games, though, if that makes all of us happy. :D

Does anyone want to explain to me the TMPGEnc data? Were all the "(p)reviews" that "borrowed" the data from the Chinese wrong?

No, I do not think so. What you said earlier is right with SMT ON performance decreases by a significant margin whereas if the opposite is done an increase is seen as an enormous step. It must be conflicts or the software does not have full multi threading support, sincerely unless I have it and do some tests,no clue at all.

Metroid.
10-13-2008, 08:21 AM
Movieman

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-Dub

I think this would a lot clearer if America took it head out of its arse and actually wrote the date correctly as in the 9th day of the 10 month of the 2008th year.... The only country on earth that writes its date in such an idiotic way...

As ref the article, i'm all of a dither about Nehalem, and as normal the first set of benchies dont show when the platform is capable of since the benchies are designed for test an old platform, not a new one, same thing with the switch from single to dual channel, assuming most of you guys can remember that far back. Its a wait and see case i think, particularly interested in the results Movieman will get...

Dubz

When one joins an international forum one expects there to be small differences in the way people verbalize things.
I see many people that don't speak English well but do I complain about it? Nope..
I say to myself that God bless them, they do a hell of a lot better in English than I do in their native tongue.
We do month,date and then year.
You do date,moth and then year.
Easy solution to this:
Write it out as October 13,2008 and settled.
Now as to us taking our heads out of our asses, we did that in 1776 when we broke away from England with it's repressive laws and founded this country.:rofl:
10-13-2008, 08:30 AM
Praz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

Now as to us taking our heads out of our asses, we did that in 1776 when we broke away from England with it's repressive laws and founded this country.:rofl:

That's sig worthy. :up:
10-13-2008, 08:35 AM
Metroid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechromancer

Dude, we write it that way because we speak it that way, ie. "Today is October twelfth two-thousand eight." Also you Brits are the ones that brought it over in the first place so blame yourself! LOL

What I would say is a Chinese website using a USA reference time for its articles is poor, since is not a USA website and it should use a standard world reference time, by the way there are 2 ways of saying it and it is different when you say it and when you write it using date format.

World date reference is Day/Month/Year, since we can say Today is 11th or 11 of November of 2008
USA date reference is Month/Day/Year, November 11th 2008
However in the UK we use the world time reference date format for everything and when we speak we say both ways USA and World.

Just to be clear about things.

Metroid.
10-13-2008, 08:38 AM
gallag

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

Easy solution to this:
Write it out as October 13,2008 and settled.

Surely you mean the 13th of October, 2008. In order as it should be old bean, Chocks away.
10-13-2008, 08:39 AM
STaRGaZeR

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-Dub

I think this would a lot clearer if America took it head out of its arse and actually wrote the date correctly as in the 9th day of the 10 month of the 2008th year.... The only country on earth that writes its date in such an idiotic way...

While I agree with you, I can say exactly the same about how British and the people in most of their old colonies drive (left instead of right). The world is full of stupid things.
10-13-2008, 08:39 AM
Nedjo

I don't understand what's the fuss about these three-channel scores?!? Since Havendale will have DC IMC it's obvious that Intel knows to that for desktop use three-channel is pointless!
10-13-2008, 08:43 AM
STaRGaZeR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nedjo

I don't understand what's the fuss about these three-channel scores?!? Since Havendale will have DC IMC it's obvious that Intel knows to that for desktop use three-channel is pointless!

Indeed. It was already well know that tri-channel would bring close to 0 improvement in desktop apps. Like always, people with too high expectations.
10-13-2008, 08:49 AM
Metroid

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

While I agree with you, I can say exactly the same about how British and the people in most of their old colonies drive (left instead of right). The world is full of stupid things.

So what about the American football?

At least we learnt something and yes the right instead of left bench place is madness, hate driving anyway :D.

I live in London I do not need a car whatsoever. We have one of the best underground tube services.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nedjo

I don't understand what's the fuss about these three-channel scores?!? Since Havendale will have DC IMC it's obvious that Intel knows to that for desktop use three-channel is pointless!

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

Indeed. It was already well know that tri-channel would bring close to 0 improvement in desktop apps. Like always, people with too high expectations.

Well something tells me the 192 bit memory is not yet implemented in applications, which must be the deficit on that matter.

Metroid.
10-13-2008, 08:55 AM
freeloader

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

While I agree with you, I can say exactly the same about how British and the people in most of their old colonies drive (left instead of right). The world is full of stupid things.

NVM.
10-13-2008, 08:57 AM
freeloader

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metroid

So what about the American football?

At least we learnt something and yes the right instead of left bench place is madness, hate driving anyway :D.

I live in London I do not need a car whatsoever. We have one of the best underground tube services.

Well something tells me the 192 bit memory is not yet implemented in applications, which must be the deficit on that matter.

Metroid.

How do you "implement" a 192 bit memory controller in any software? It's just a function of the hardware. A program doesn't know if it's using a 2 bit controller or a 200 bit controller.
10-13-2008, 09:06 AM
Metroid

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeloader

How do you "implement" a 192 bit memory controller in any software?

change the library source code 128 to 192, adaptive code could do that automatic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeloader

It's just a function of the hardware. A program doesn't know if it's using a 2 bit controller or a 200 bit controller.

It does if you get the instructions of that particular hardware, like the program reads what the hardware is capable then customize automatic what could do for the best. It is easy said than done, I did not go that far yet. So no real idea, maybe somebody could enlighten us.

Metroid.
10-13-2008, 09:08 AM
Tonucci

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nedjo

I don't understand what's the fuss about these three-channel scores?!? Since Havendale will have DC IMC it's obvious that Intel knows to that for desktop use three-channel is pointless!

Yeah...I never expected much from 3-channel or SMT in desktop apps. In general, they already have more than enough bandwidth and are not muilti-thread demanding to saturate even older quads.
10-13-2008, 09:09 AM
STaRGaZeR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metroid

So what about the American football?

At least we learnt something and yes the right instead of left bench place is madness, hate driving anyway :D.

I live in London I do not need a car whatsoever. We have one of the best underground tube services.

The point is that while left or right is not stupid by itself, doing one of them together with only 2 or 3 countries in the world is, like the date with the Americans.

I live in Madrid and we also have one of the best undergrounds in the world. But that doesn't quit people from driving their car each day unfortunately. Driving is the best and we know it, now we need cars that don't pollute the atmosphere and it'll be perfect :D. But if you want to see something really amazing regarding undergrounds, go to Japan. Simply incredible.

Sorry for the OT :p:
10-13-2008, 09:13 AM
Movieman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slovnaft

What's this? What're you referring to?
ohmygoodness the mmystery!

Box is supposed to contain a cpu, some memory and a motherboard with 1366 pins.. I wonder what thats all about? :wasntme:
10-13-2008, 09:16 AM
Blacky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

Box is supposed to contain a cpu, some memory and a motherboard with 1366 pins.. I wonder what thats all about? :wasntme:

:D:D lucky you!
10-13-2008, 09:18 AM
Movieman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacky

:D:D lucky you!

Well my response when I first was told was :" HOLT SH*IT! Are you frigging kidding me?"
Even us old guys still get excited at times!:rofl:
10-13-2008, 09:19 AM
Metroid

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

The point is that while left or right is not stupid by itself, doing one of them together with only 2 or 3 countries in the world is, like the date with the Americans.

I live in Madrid and we also have one of the best undergrounds in the world. But that doesn't quit people from driving their car each day unfortunately. Driving is the best and we know it, now we need cars that don't pollute the atmosphere and it'll be perfect :D. But if you want to see something really amazing regarding undergrounds, go to Japan. Simply incredible.

Sorry for the OT :p:

Yes I got your point that is why I said "So what about the American football?":rofl:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonucci

Yeah...I never expected much from 3-channel or SMT in desktop apps. In general, they already have more than enough bandwidth and are not muilti-thread demanding to saturate even older quads.

It depends, like I said in another thread give another 2 to 3 years. That is the problem when companies introduce a new technology, thumbs up to AMD and Intel for forcing developers to wise coded multi threaded applications.

Metroid.
10-13-2008, 09:30 AM
Slovnaft

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

Box is supposed to contain a cpu, some memory and a motherboard with 1366 pins.. I wonder what thats all about? :wasntme:

wow, it's a good thing none of the desperate XSers know where you liv-OHWAIT :rofl:
10-13-2008, 09:35 AM
Movieman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slovnaft

wow, it's a good thing none of the desperate XSers know where you liv-OHWAIT :rofl:

They do know, but they also know I keep a S&W Model 27 here at my side..:ROTF:
10-13-2008, 09:35 AM
ap4lifetn

How are you able to get an engineering sample? What do you have to do?
10-13-2008, 09:36 AM
Metroid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slovnaft

wow, it's a good thing none of the desperate XSers know where you liv-OHWAIT :rofl:

What about the break-in tonight:rofl:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

They do know, but they also know I keep a S&W Model 27 here at my side..:ROTF:

War sighted :p:
10-13-2008, 09:37 AM
Movieman

Quote:

Originally Posted by ap4lifetn

How are you able to get an engineering sample? What do you have to do?

I don't have an answer to that.
In my case just plain lucky as beleive me I'm not one of the big players on the list for these.
10-13-2008, 09:38 AM
ap4lifetn

As long as you find loopholes in your NDA to give us some info, I won't be mad at you.

Here's hoping you got some newer steppings!!!
10-13-2008, 09:44 AM
savantu

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoqolatl

L3 latency is usually slightly lower on Bloomfield than L2 latency on Yorkfield. Also Bloomfields L3 is a bit smaller than Yorkfields L2. I guess Nehalems cache system will start to shine in 3+ threaded apps, where shared L3 will definitely outperform two L2s connected by FSB and with doubled data.

???

Yorkfield L2 latency is 15 cycles.
Nehalem L3 latency is 39 cycles best case.

The L3 is far far slower.

This can be seen with Tri vs. Dual Channel RAM.

Trichannel DDR3 1333 offers more BW than the L3 is capable to handle ; in order to really make the IMC shine you need to OC the NB/L3.
10-13-2008, 09:48 AM
cegras

Core i7 was stated many times to be intel's assault on the server platform, so it's no surprise it does well in things like winrar (oh yay) or the like, which I totally have no interest in.

Looks like I'll be upgrading RAM / GFX for a while longer.
10-13-2008, 09:54 AM
SNiiPE_DoGG

Quote:

Originally Posted by cegras

Core i7 was stated many times to be intel's assault on the server platform, so it's no surprise it does well in things like winrar (oh yay) or the like, which I totally have no interest in.

Looks like I'll be upgrading RAM / GFX for a while longer.

true, I am getting one more motherboard, sticking with my q9650 and I'll be done with touching those parts until nehalem is gone and over with.
10-13-2008, 09:56 AM
Bobsama

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

Well my response when I first was told was :" HOLT SH*IT! Are you frigging kidding me?"
Even us old guys still get excited at times!:rofl:

I'm guessing you're getting the i7 965? :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: Congratulations, you lucky bastard! :p: Send it to me: I'll do some stress testing in South Florida's humidity and heat! :ROTF:
10-13-2008, 10:09 AM
Movieman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobsama

I'm guessing you're getting the i7 965? :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: Congratulations, you lucky bastard! :p: Send it to me: I'll do some stress testing in South Florida's humidity and heat! :ROTF:

I heard it was an unlocked 3200EE and who are you again?:rofl:
10-13-2008, 10:19 AM
Bobsama

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

I heard it was an unlocked 3200EE and who are you again?:rofl:

If it is--make sure you do some stress-testing on WCG for us! :D:D:D And remember me? I'm that fellow patient of Dr. SiG!! I'm glad I survived that third phone call! Oh and I don't think I told you, but on the second (a few days before the third), I spoke to Dear Old.:yepp:
10-13-2008, 10:55 AM
Bellisimo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

Now as to us taking our heads out of our asses, we did that in 1776 when we broke away from England with it's repressive laws and founded this country.:rofl:

and killed 99% of the native people?
10-13-2008, 11:04 AM
Sumanji

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shintai

The first 2 slides posted is loading times if people should be in doubt...

Thanks for clearing that up Shintai, I was getting confused!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

Write it out as October 13,2008 and settled

13th of October 2008, tbh :p:

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

The point is that while left or right is not stupid by itself, doing one of them together with only 2 or 3 countries in the world is, like the date with the Americans.

Countries that drive on the left:

Anguilla, Antigua & Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Bermuda, Bhutan, Bophuthatswana, Botswana, British Virgin Islands, Brunei, Cayman Islands, Channel Islands, Ciskei,Cyprus, Dominica, Falkland Islands, Fiji, Grenada, Guyana, Hong Kong, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Jamaica, Japan, Kenya, Lesotho, Macau, Malawi, Malaysia, Malta, Mauritius, Montserrat, Mozambique, Namibia, Nepal, New Zealand, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, St. Vincent & Grenadines, Seychelles, Sikkim, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, Sri Lanka, St Kitts & Nevis, St. Helena, St. Lucia, Surinam, Swaziland, Tanzania, Thailand, Tonga, Trinidad & Tobago, Uganda, United Kingdom ,US Virgin Islands, Venda, Zambia, Zimbabwe...

:rofl:

;)
10-13-2008, 11:15 AM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumanji

Countries that drive on the left:

Anguilla, Antigua & Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Bermuda, Bhutan, Bophuthatswana, Botswana, British Virgin Islands, Brunei, Cayman Islands, Channel Islands, Ciskei,Cyprus, Dominica, Falkland Islands, Fiji, Grenada, Guyana, Hong Kong, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Jamaica, Japan, Kenya, Lesotho, Macau, Malawi, Malaysia, Malta, Mauritius, Montserrat, Mozambique, Namibia, Nepal, New Zealand, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, St. Vincent & Grenadines, Seychelles, Sikkim, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, Sri Lanka, St Kitts & Nevis, St. Helena, St. Lucia, Surinam, Swaziland, Tanzania, Thailand, Tonga, Trinidad & Tobago, Uganda, United Kingdom ,US Virgin Islands, Venda, Zambia, Zimbabwe...

:rofl:

;)

now remove every country that was a british colonie. :p:
10-13-2008, 11:19 AM
SNiiPE_DoGG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumanji

Countries that drive on the left:

Anguilla, Antigua & Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Bermuda, Bhutan, Bophuthatswana, Botswana, British Virgin Islands, Brunei, Cayman Islands, Channel Islands, Ciskei,Cyprus, Dominica, Falkland Islands, Fiji, Grenada, Guyana, Hong Kong, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Jamaica, Japan, Kenya, Lesotho, Macau, Malawi, Malaysia, Malta, Mauritius, Montserrat, Mozambique, Namibia, Nepal, New Zealand, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, St. Vincent & Grenadines, Seychelles, Sikkim, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, Sri Lanka, St Kitts & Nevis, St. Helena, St. Lucia, Surinam, Swaziland, Tanzania, Thailand, Tonga, Trinidad & Tobago, Uganda, United Kingdom ,US Virgin Islands, Venda, Zambia, Zimbabwe...

:rofl:

;)

I count 62 give or take one or two, however 15 or so of those are small islands and some of them arent even countries, like Sikkim (part of india) or Bophuthatswana and Ciskei which are just small republics inside South Africa.

you can pretty much narrow that to 20 real countries that are significant.

(sorry for the OT)
10-13-2008, 11:23 AM
jaredpace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechromancer

On point! BUT, it does give us an idea of how great a game engine could be if the damn thing was highly multi-threaded. We will see some amazing things happen to K10 and Nehalem when Windows 7 and DX11 show up. Right now though, 8 threads is pretty useless outside of Vantage LOL.

they said the same thing about kentsfield vistax64 and dx10.

lol
10-13-2008, 11:45 AM
Motiv

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

I count 62 give or take one or two, however 15 or so of those are small islands and some of them arent even countries, like Sikkim (part of india) or Bophuthatswana and Ciskei which are just small republics inside South Africa.

you can pretty much narrow that to 20 real countries that are significant.

(sorry for the OT)

Strange but true.

Countries that drive on the left have less accidents.
10-13-2008, 12:09 PM
STaRGaZeR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumanji

Countries that drive on the left:

Anguilla, Antigua & Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Bermuda, Bhutan, Bophuthatswana, Botswana, British Virgin Islands, Brunei, Cayman Islands, Channel Islands, Ciskei,Cyprus, Dominica, Falkland Islands, Fiji, Grenada, Guyana, Hong Kong, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Jamaica, Japan, Kenya, Lesotho, Macau, Malawi, Malaysia, Malta, Mauritius, Montserrat, Mozambique, Namibia, Nepal, New Zealand, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, St. Vincent & Grenadines, Seychelles, Sikkim, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, Sri Lanka, St Kitts & Nevis, St. Helena, St. Lucia, Surinam, Swaziland, Tanzania, Thailand, Tonga, Trinidad & Tobago, Uganda, United Kingdom ,US Virgin Islands, Venda, Zambia, Zimbabwe...

:rofl:

;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hornet331

now remove every country that was a british colonie. :p:

What he said plus: do I have to write how many countries drive on the right? A lot more. However I apologize, because that list is not 2 or 3 like I said :clap: :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motiv

Strange but true.

Countries that drive on the left have less accidents.

What matters is the quality of the driver and the circumstances, not the side of the road. If those countries have less accidents is because they're better drivers, the road quality is better, etc. Nothing to do with driving on the left.
10-13-2008, 12:10 PM
Movieman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobsama

If it is--make sure you do some stress-testing on WCG for us! :D:D:D And remember me? I'm that fellow patient of Dr. SiG!! I'm glad I survived that third phone call! Oh and I don't think I told you, but on the second (a few days before the third), I spoke to Dear Old.:yepp:

It will be on WCG within 5 minutes of firing up..:up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellisimo

and killed 99% of the native people?

Possibly true to the percentage, that I am not knowledgeable on but this was the 1700's-1800's and times and people were not as they are today.
I would also harass a guess that the English Navy killed quite a few in their attempts to colonize the world during that timeframe.
The English government wasn't exactly a sea of shining virtue itself during the 1800's.
They refused to open the granaries and sat back and watched Ireland starve to death during the Potato blight of the 1870's.
That lead to the mass migration of the Irish to the US.
And you wonder why the Irish still hate the English?
Let's not have the pot calling the kettle black here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumanji

13th of October 2008, tbh :p:

Either way works for me..:up:
10-13-2008, 12:17 PM
K404

1/ MM is obviously a world-class negotiator (Hey Dave! How ya been? :))

2/ I was hoping tri-channel would rip SPi32M to shreds

3/ Nehalem should be a must-have for wP (hey...I love my synthetics)
10-13-2008, 12:21 PM
T_Flight

Back on topic...

I'm loving these threads, becasue this is brand new technology, nobody but people under NDA know anything about how it works, but some of these sites are already proclaiming performance before the CPU is even released, or before there are even programs to benchmark it with. :ROTF:

It's hilarious. Most of it stems from places like the Inq, but I've seen some of these proclamations from Anandtech and other pretty good sites, and that is what is shocking.

It's like the "Memory Voltage Issue" that has already been stated is a nonissue, and that people should Ignore such gossip because those articles were completely bogus.

We've had others that stated the CPU would not OC! :rofl: Anybody who writes stuff like that should be deported from the OC'ing world forever never to return! :yepp:

We've had others that stated the ref clock wouldn't go higher than a certain level. Oh boy! :rolleyes: We already have seen the answer to that.

It's just bunk to fill a void of unknowns, and I'm glad I ignored it so it wouldn't clutter my mind when this thing actually gets released.
10-13-2008, 12:22 PM
justthefax

Guys, could we stop the date/which-side-of-the-road arguments and get back to flaming Nahalem's disappointing performance? And how Deneb is looking better and better every day
10-13-2008, 12:31 PM
T_Flight

Quote:

Originally Posted by justthefax

Guys, could we stop the date/which-side-of-the-road arguments and get back to flaming Nahalem's disappointing performance? And how Deneb is looking better and better every day

I believe Deneb is still in the Hype stage. Deneb is just a paper tiger right now. We do have some numbers on Nehalem (Bloomfield) that are pretty promising though from people that have actually worked with these things. Just a few. Nothing about Deneb is "looking" better, because there is nothing to see there yet. :shrug:
10-13-2008, 12:39 PM
Bobsama

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

It will be on WCG within 5 minutes of firing up..:up:

Remember, the only account that accepts new machines is one by the name of "Bobsama". :p:
10-13-2008, 01:08 PM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_Flight

Back on topic...

I'm loving these threads, becasue this is brand new technology, nobody but people under NDA know anything about how it works, but some of these sites are already proclaiming performance before the CPU is even released, or before there are even programs to benchmark it with. :ROTF:

It's hilarious. Most of it stems from places like the Inq, but I've seen some of these proclamations from Anandtech and other pretty good sites, and that is what is shocking.

It's like the "Memory Voltage Issue" that has already been stated is a nonissue, and that people should Ignore such gossip because those articles were completely bogus.

We've had others that stated the CPU would not OC! :rofl: Anybody who writes stuff like that should be deported from the OC'ing world forever never to return! :yepp:

We've had others that stated the ref clock wouldn't go higher than a certain level. Oh boy! :rolleyes: We already have seen the answer to that.

It's just bunk to fill a void of unknowns, and I'm glad I ignored it so it wouldn't clutter my mind when this thing actually gets released.

so true.
10-13-2008, 02:05 PM
Solus Corvus

Quote:

Originally Posted by justthefax

Guys, could we stop the date/which-side-of-the-road arguments and get back to flaming Nahalem's disappointing performance? And how Deneb is looking better and better every day

The only people being disappointed are those that had unrealistic expectations of nehalem in the first place (ie. avg +50% IPC). The same thing goes for those that have unrealistic expectations of deneb (4ghz).

It's one thing to hope for the unlikely to happen. But expecting the unlikely to happen is asking to get slapped in the face by reality.
10-13-2008, 02:07 PM
jaredpace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Corvus

The only people being disappointed are those that had unrealistic expectations of nehalem in the first place (ie. avg +50% IPC). The same thing goes for those that have unrealistic expectations of deneb (4ghz).

It's one thing to hope for the unlikely to happen. But expecting the unlikely to happen is asking to get slapped in the face by reality.

It's going to be hard to beat a 4.5ghz Penryn for the next couple years. As far as games are concerned. :D
10-13-2008, 03:05 PM
clayton

Quote:

Originally Posted by justthefax

Guys, could we stop the date/which-side-of-the-road arguments and get back to flaming Nahalem's disappointing performance? And how Deneb is looking better and better every day

ES I7 chips performing better than Core2Quads in multimedia world is hardly a disappointment...
10-13-2008, 03:10 PM
Bellisimo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

Possibly true to the percentage, that I am not knowledgeable on but this was the 1700's-1800's and times and people were not as they are today.
I would also harass a guess that the English Navy killed quite a few in their attempts to colonize the world during that timeframe.
The English government wasn't exactly a sea of shining virtue itself during the 1800's.
They refused to open the granaries and sat back and watched Ireland starve to death during the Potato blight of the 1870's.
That lead to the mass migration of the Irish to the US.
And you wonder why the Irish still hate the English?
Let's not have the pot calling the kettle black here

Quote:

Originally Posted by K404

1/ MM is obviously a world-class negotiator

true, instead of staying on the subject (forefathers of today's americans killing native people) he starts about the English people...
It's a common trick, you use it when you want to justify something but you can't, so you point the finger at someone else who also did some horrible facts.
By you using this, you are getting that feel-good sensation back instead of admitting that what has happened was wrong
10-13-2008, 03:20 PM
K404

I meant in relation to getting a Bloomfield, not the historical side of things.....

None of the people who were responsible for these acts and/or the repercussions are still alive so any ill-feeling has been handed down through the generations to give a....vague, cloudy, ill-aimed reason for dislike.

In my fairly tolerant world, theres no reason for anyone to hate anyone else based on what happened in the past.

example: Im sure there are people who arent massivley keen on Scottish folk for one reason or another based on historical events. What am I gonna do? Was any of it my fault directly? I cant apologise- I dont/cant represent my whole country (theres a scary thought!) so lets just move on. As long as we learn lessons from our past instead of digging it up every now and then to get our collective blood pressures up we'll do alright.

By the same token I dont hate "The English" for Culloden. What English person can I blame now? Who can I punch to make me feel better? No-one.

None of this has anything to do with computers ;)
10-13-2008, 03:23 PM
rogueagent6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellisimo

instead of staying on the subject

Hi pot, meet kettle.

The subject of this thread is Core i7 and triple channel memory performance, not the actions of some people that died over 200 years ago. :rolleyes:
10-13-2008, 03:53 PM
Metroid

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaredpace

It's going to be hard to beat a 4.5ghz Penryn for the next couple years. As far as games are concerned. :D

Triple channel is not working well, give until the launch time and proper reviews. It might be something wrong. Nehalem coupled with triple channel and tighter latencies, games will fly away, also what is the point if the game runs more than 60 FPS? If you play online the servers tend to downgrade the speed to synchronize the players.

Example:

Player 1 = 40 FPS
Player 2 = 27 FPS
Player 3 = 35 FPS
Player 4 = 80 FPS
Player 5 = 60 FPS

The end of this will be each player at 27 FPS. C&C3 works like that, Counter strike no, however a player can not go over 60 FPS.

By the way the gaming test PC Online did was totally worthless.

Metroid.
10-13-2008, 04:43 PM
villa1n

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metroid

Triple channel is not working well, give until the launch time and proper reviews. It might be something wrong. Nehalem coupled with triple channel and tighter latencies, games will fly away, also what is the point if the game runs more than 60 FPS? If you play online the servers tend to downgrade the speed to synchronize the players.

Example:

Player 1 = 40 FPS
Player 2 = 27 FPS
Player 3 = 35 FPS
Player 4 = 80 FPS
Player 5 = 60 FPS

The end of this will be each player at 27 FPS. C&C3 works like that, Counter strike no, however a player can not go over 60 FPS.

By the way the gaming test PC Online did was totally worthless.

Metroid.

Er... by that rationale, what is the point in having a computer capable of more than 60fps at said settings..? if gaming is your main concern...?
And you can play more than 60fps, in CS, it depends on the update rate of the server, which is default 60, but many competitive servers up it to 100. When bandwidth isnt a concern. And there are also other advantages to high fps, like in cod4 for example, you can jump farther and higher if your fps is +125. I dont think you can compare RTS to FPS in regards to frames per second mattering, as an RTS is more about strategy, than it is visual acuity and reaction time in the same sense. I think nehalem will help immensely on the hosting side of things with triple channel ^^
10-13-2008, 05:29 PM
Macadamia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warboy

well, Then if this is reliable then the old Cinebench-R10 benches we've seen are not R10 but R11. Lmao....

Please don't tell me you were serious.

OMGNEHALEM POOOOWAH! =! 3x Cinebench increase. :x

----------

As for the review like Deneb, I'll wait. Nehalem's tightened integer operations should help it a little, but I'm not extremely sure how the 25% higher latency on L1 and the slower L3 reacts in comparison to Penryn.

Guys, at least be grateful that you can use your existing RAM without big hits (at stock, undervolted tho ;))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechromancer

On point! BUT, it does give us an idea of how great a game engine could be if the damn thing was highly multi-threaded. We will see some amazing things happen to K10 and Nehalem when Windows 7 and DX11 show up. Right now though, 8 threads is pretty useless outside of Vantage LOL.

Err, 3DM Vantage CPU score's that high because of the mass amount of (rather crappy) x87 operations in PhysX. They tend to scale VERY, VERY well with SMT based on the raw fact that x87 is almost unused.

Switched to a proper SSE optimized engine like Havok in the benchmark, and the gains will again go back to normal 20/30%s or even lower.
10-13-2008, 05:56 PM
JumpingJack

Quote:

Originally Posted by clayton

ES I7 chips performing better than Core2Quads in multimedia world is hardly a disappointment...

Good point, you are looking at a bin - 1 out performing the top bin penryn in most cases.... gaming is weak though, weaker than I would have guessed... but then, it is hard to tell on pre-release platforms.
10-13-2008, 08:02 PM
Metroid

Quote:

Originally Posted by villa1n

Er... by that rationale, what is the point in having a computer capable of more than 60fps at said settings..? if gaming is your main concern...?

First FPS = frames per second which determines how many frames per second the game will run, if the game was designed to run at 30 FPS like C&C3, in this case 30 FPS = 1 second cause the game was designed to run twice slower, the game time is counted as 30x60 = 1800 frames per minute. Real time would be 3600 frames per second, but the refresh rate still being 60 frames per second which means each frame will be illuminated twice more times before the next frame is projected.

You can have a fast computer which render most of your games more than 60 FPS no problems about that, you can play normal missions and much more using if you want 200 FPS the only thing that will happen is your units and the enemy will become faster. That is good if you want to train your reflex and timing management, the problem is your eyes you will not see 1/3 of the frames. 60 FPS is the default for games as it means real time which means that your eyes will likely see almost all the frames, up to 70 FPS still fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by villa1n

And you can play more than 60fps, in CS, it depends on the update rate of the server, which is default 60, but many competitive servers up it to 100.

Yes and no. The server limits you at 60 FPS in-game cause would make it unfair and advantageous for some users, like you said some servers that competes do it, no problem about that but before that they tell the users about it, however championships are locked at 60 FPS and twice illuminated by CRT monitors at 120Hz.

Latency or ping is not a big issue because many users who have a terrible ping or transfer low refresh rates are actually hard to hit as you see them at a place and after 1 second one square ahead which means these users have lower FPS rate than the required or internet issues that results the refresh rate issues. It is hard but this is actually hard for some people to understand it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by villa1n

When bandwidth isnt a concern. And there are also other advantages to high fps, like in cod4 for example, you can jump farther and higher if your fps is +125.

Yes but what is the point if you can not see 1/2 of the game? Like I said for training purposes it might be ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by villa1n

I dont think you can compare RTS to FPS in regards to frames per second mattering, as an RTS is more about strategy, than it is visual acuity and reaction time in the same sense. I think nehalem will help immensely on the hosting side of things with triple channel ^^

Every game uses FPS, being strategy or first player shooter games and many of them are limited if that is the case.

The truth is even if your monitor supported refresh rates up to 120 that would still be difficult for your eyes to see all the frames if the game also runs at 120 FPS, instead the good thing would be the game running at 60 FPS and the refresh rate at 120 then for your eyes would be very good.

Have you ever tried to make an animation and set it to run at 60 frames per second, movies still at 24 per second to 30 per second like C&C3 the frames are twice illuminated before the next one is called.

All of this results in just one thing, gaming up to 70 FPS still fine more than 70 FPS is pointless.

Yes Nehalem will help the bottlenecks once used with the graphics card just how much is unsure at this moment.

Metroid.
10-13-2008, 08:58 PM
Katanai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metroid

First FPS = frames per second which determines how many frames per second the game will run, if the game was designed to run at 30 FPS like C&C3, in this case 30 FPS = 1 second cause the game was designed to run twice slower, the game time is counted as 30x60 = 1800 frames per minute. Real time would be 3600 frames per second, but the refresh rate still being 60 frames per second which means each frame will be illuminated twice more times before the next frame is projected.

You can have a fast computer which render most of your games more than 60 FPS no problems about that, you can play normal missions and much more using if you want 200 FPS the only thing that will happen is your units and the enemy will become faster. That is good if you want to train your reflex and timing management, the problem is your eyes you will not see 1/3 of the frames. 60 FPS is the default for games as it means real time which means that your eyes will likely see almost all the frames, up to 70 FPS still fine.

Yes and no. The server limits you at 60 FPS in-game cause would make it unfair and advantageous for some users, like you said some servers that competes do it, no problem about that but before that they tell the users about it, however championships are locked at 60 FPS and twice illuminated by CRT monitors at 120Hz.

Latency or ping is not a big issue because many users who have a terrible ping or transfer low refresh rates are actually hard to hit as you see them at a place and after 1 second one square ahead which means these users have lower FPS rate than the required or internet issues that results the refresh rate issues. It is hard but this is actually hard for some people to understand it.

Yes but what is the point if you can not see 1/2 of the game? Like I said for training purposes it might be ok.

Every game uses FPS, being strategy or first player shooter games and many of them are limited if that is the case.

The truth is even if your monitor supported refresh rates up to 120 that would still be difficult for your eyes to see all the frames if the game also runs at 120 FPS, instead the good thing would be the game running at 60 FPS and the refresh rate at 120 then for your eyes would be very good.

Have you ever tried to make an animation and set it to run at 60 frames per second, movies still at 24 per second to 30 per second like C&C3 the frames are twice illuminated before the next one is called.

All of this results in just one thing, gaming up to 70 FPS still fine more than 70 FPS is pointless.

Yes Nehalem will help the bottlenecks once used with the graphics card just how much is unsure at this moment.

Metroid.

bla bla bla.

Try jumping on a fence from a balcony at 60fps in COD4. Then try it again at 125fps. Then you can speak about this matter again.
10-13-2008, 09:16 PM
Metroid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katanai

bla bla bla.

Try jumping on a fence from a balcony at 60fps in COD4. Then try it again at 125fps. Then you can speak about this matter again.

It is too much for you to understand, don't feel ashamed you are just a gamer who wants to play games at 400 FPS and see only 15% of it:rofl:

Metroid.
10-13-2008, 09:31 PM
dinos22

WTF Dave
where are the results
it's almost 15th in Sydney :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
10-13-2008, 10:07 PM
villa1n

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metroid

First FPS = frames per second which determines how many frames per second the game will run, if the game was designed to run at 30 FPS like C&C3, in this case 30 FPS = 1 second cause the game was designed to run twice slower, the game time is counted as 30x60 = 1800 frames per minute. Real time would be 3600 frames per second, but the refresh rate still being 60 frames per second which means each frame will be illuminated twice more times before the next frame is projected.

You can have a fast computer which render most of your games more than 60 FPS no problems about that, you can play normal missions and much more using if you want 200 FPS the only thing that will happen is your units and the enemy will become faster. That is good if you want to train your reflex and timing management, the problem is your eyes you will not see 1/3 of the frames. 60 FPS is the default for games as it means real time which means that your eyes will likely see almost all the frames, up to 70 FPS still fine.

Yes and no. The server limits you at 60 FPS in-game cause would make it unfair and advantageous for some users, like you said some servers that competes do it, no problem about that but before that they tell the users about it, however championships are locked at 60 FPS and twice illuminated by CRT monitors at 120Hz.

Latency or ping is not a big issue because many users who have a terrible ping or transfer low refresh rates are actually hard to hit as you see them at a place and after 1 second one square ahead which means these users have lower FPS rate than the required or internet issues that results the refresh rate issues. It is hard but this is actually hard for some people to understand it.

Yes but what is the point if you can not see 1/2 of the game? Like I said for training purposes it might be ok.

Every game uses FPS, being strategy or first player shooter games and many of them are limited if that is the case.

The truth is even if your monitor supported refresh rates up to 120 that would still be difficult for your eyes to see all the frames if the game also runs at 120 FPS, instead the good thing would be the game running at 60 FPS and the refresh rate at 120 then for your eyes would be very good.

Have you ever tried to make an animation and set it to run at 60 frames per second, movies still at 24 per second to 30 per second like C&C3 the frames are twice illuminated before the next one is called.

All of this results in just one thing, gaming up to 70 FPS still fine more than 70 FPS is pointless.

Yes Nehalem will help the bottlenecks once used with the graphics card just how much is unsure at this moment.

Metroid.

I m afraid you are perpetuating the myth humans can only percieve a fixed FPS rate.... :(

Quote:

The USAF, in testing their pilots for visual response time, used a simple test to see if the pilots could distinguish small changes in light. In their experiment a picture of an aircraft was flashed on a screen in a dark room at 1/220th of a second. Pilots were consistently able to "see" the afterimage as well as identify the aircraft. This simple and specific situation not only proves the ability to percieve 1 image within 1/220 of a second, but the ability to interpret higher FPS.

source If you want to search visual acuity in the journal of neuroscience im sure you will more research verifying this.

As for having higher frames be relevant. Each frame, for CS as an example, is an index where the game can take input from the mouse / keyboard, and logs your models xyz co-ord, and sends that info to the server which compares it to the other data from other users, and then applies lag correction based on the time stamp of the data and what it correlates too.. in a rough form.
Simply put, the more frames you index, the better chance the data you send to the server registers as data before the other player shot. Some players use the lag correction aspects to their advantage by skewing their settings, but all things being equal, it is better to have more time indexes to send.... its simple sampling, you have a higher sampling rate of data then your oppenent, your data based on Did A shoot first, chances are it will be a more accurate experience, as we are not robots, we do things like PREFIRE etc, based on what we think will happen, and higher sampling makes all of this more effective.
10-13-2008, 10:15 PM
gOJDO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katanai

bla bla bla.

Try jumping on a fence from a balcony at 60fps in COD4. Then try it again at 125fps.

I tried this multiple times with 60 FPS and 100 FPS, locked by V-sync. I was unable to notice a difference. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Then you can speak about this matter again.

:rolleyes:
10-13-2008, 10:44 PM
Katanai

Quote:

Originally Posted by gOJDO

I tried this multiple times with 60 FPS and 100 FPS, locked by V-sync. I was unable to notice a difference. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

I've said 125 not 100 and if you're using V-sync in a competitive multiplayer fps I don't know what to say man...

As Villain explained it's not all about how many frames you see but rather how the game behaves. It's about input as much as it is about output. In COD4 you can move better and much more precise at higher fps. Also I simply cannot understand how someone could play CS1.6 at 60fps.

I will tell you this: when I first played COD4 I had two favorite maps. In those two maps I always placed first. Then I started thinking about tweaking COD4 so I activated the ingame fps counter and let it on for a few days. My game was running somewhere around 60-80 fps. Only in those two exact maps it was running above 100 fps.

Now you people tell me that fps count doesn't matter in COD4. WHY should I believe you over my own experience???
10-13-2008, 10:56 PM
YukonTrooper

Quote:

Originally Posted by clayton

ES I7 chips performing better than Core2Quads in multimedia world is hardly a disappointment...

Exactly. There may not be any performance improvement in games, but look at how Nehalem rapes many day-to-day Windows applications.
10-13-2008, 11:35 PM
Nedjo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper

but look at how Nehalem rapes many day-to-day Windows applications.

:rolleyes:
WinAmp? IE? FFox? Word(pad)? Kaspersky? Massinger Live? Nero Burning ROM? Windows Defender? Windows Mail? PowerDVD???

MS Paint?
:rolleyes:

dude, what are the day-to-day windows apps that Nehalem "rapes"?? SuperPi???
:shrug:
10-13-2008, 11:48 PM
Caparroz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nedjo

:rolleyes:
WinAmp? IE? FFox? Word(pad)? Kaspersky? Massinger Live? Nero Burning ROM? Windows Defender? Windows Mail? PowerDVD???

MS Paint?
:rolleyes:

dude, what are the day-to-day windows apps that Nehalem "rapes"?? SuperPi???
:shrug:

Well, Premiere and After Effects are day-to-day apps to me. I sure could use some improvement over my York rig right beside me with both open and running. :shrug:

If Nehalem proves to be faster in these day-to-day apps I'm all over it. :up:
10-13-2008, 11:51 PM
Nedjo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caparroz

Well, Premiere and After Effects are day-to-day apps to me.

I believe that CoD4, UT3, WoW, AoC, you name it are day to day apps for many people ;)

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:44 AM.

XtremeSystems