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Honestly, which is better? Both have 512mb of vRAM. Both are around $200. I have looked through countless benchmarks and they look to be equal. Which would be the better buy? Just playing at 1440x900 and possibly 1680x1050 in the future.
I know nvidia is on top of the ball with driver support. ATI seems to be....lacking...
Also, what is the main difference between the GTX and GTX+?
the main different between "+" an "non +" is 55nm process and may be core and mem clock
4850 512MB isnt suppose to compare to 9800GTX+...
but 4850 1GB is really interested me
I would not consider the 9800GTX+ because of its price. The 9800GT ULTIMATE has the same amount of shaders, higher core clock, lower mem clock and cost alot less.
But even with the 9800GT ultimate being almost the same thing but cheaper, I'd choose the hd4850. Its faster (most of the time) when 4x/8x AA is used @ high res and settings.
Well what is it supposed to go up against?Quote:
Originally Posted by bl4ckdr4g00n
The 9800GTX+ is looking pretty cheap.
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pro...gon=&langid=EN
Right around the price of a 4850.
the 4850 is MUCH better with 8xAA which is what you will be using all the time at 1440x900 and 1680x1050.
I think if you found benches of 9800gtx+ vs 4850 @ 1680x1050 8xAA the 4850 would win by a significant margin. with less AA there is less margin.
(hopefully that was unbiased enough to avoid flame ;))
i have both cards,the 4850's gathering dust
and i beg to differ but increased aa on 4850 is not a reality.
cooling,drivers,warrenty/step-up and the great overclockig right out of the box put the gtx+ over the top.
the gtx+ is the most underated card out right now
thats just my opinion and findings
Fixed :DQuote:
Originally Posted by cowie
i said underrated not unknown lol
oh that cards a gts? man i must live under a rock i gotta try 1 of those gtu's(?)
Thats why its underated :) Coz most people don know that this particular model has 128 Stream Processors just like the GTX+. And its like 30 bucks cheaper.Quote:
Originally Posted by cowie
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121266
:yepp:
i know this is way off topic.......but i have a asus gtu coming :D
i hope it runs fast when i give it volts
125 after mir no risk i'd say he he
thanks tonucci:)
No problem mate :)Quote:
Originally Posted by cowie
Post your results when you are done, if possible. I'd like to see how it does when overvolted.
Back to topic... I'd still choose the 4850 over the 9800GT ultimate for the 8x AA performance and DX10.1 support for future games (minor detail).
But in the end, its an matter of personal preference, since the GTU is a lil cheaper... very similar price/performance ratios I'd say.
EVGA easily makes it top the 4850. Better cooler, step-up program if you have more money later, EVGA support/warranty, and pretty close performances. I have a 4850 on my HTPC which forced me to upgrade to 3rd party cooler. Next card will indeed be EVGA or nothing.
Ah jeeze you're thinking how i am too. I mean i have seen the benchmarks and all and they both seem like great cards (including the 9800GT). But i have this Accelero S1 currently on my 8800gt...soo...what would i do with that? And i still want a warranty on my card. (Btw, i can't use step-up because im in Canada;))Quote:
Originally Posted by clayton
Yeah thanks for the reply. Is the difference really that big with using AA on the 4850 vs the 9800? I thought the 9800's could definitely handle it?Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
EDIT: How is XFX's warranty? Can you put a 3rd party cooler on it without voiding the warranty?
That would depend which sites reviews both cards but.......Quote:
I think if you found benches of 9800gtx+ vs 4850 @ 1680x1050 8xAA the 4850 would win by a significant margin. with less AA there is less margin.
From what I've seen here, anywhere which the 9800GTX (not the +) is on par or wins here and there? The review site lost its credibility or had lots it long time ago......http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards....=571&card2=566
I don't see the 4850 to be the magic bullet everyone "thinks" it is, I don't: http://en.hardspell.com/doc/showcont...13&pageid=3184
As some of you can see, the GTX+ runs with a 740mhz stock GPU core and keeps up with the 4850 OC'd to 700mhz (from its 625mhz clock).......too bad they didn't OC'd the GTX+.......
nVidia is the absolute best when it comes to drivers.......yes sir. You don't have to wait for "hot fix" nor have to buy a 3rd party HSF (which adds cost to your "less expensive" than GTX card), don't run hot........Quote:
Originally Posted by JS1234
The GTX+ would be a much better card, specially if you OC'd it from the 740mhz core, which would easily do some 850mhz GPU core.....
My 9800GTX does 800-2400 w/o even braking a sweat.....temps never go above 61c.
Just listen to him......:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by cowie
Haha they should have OC'd the 9800GTX+ 100mhz and seen what it can do! lol...im actually curious how it would compare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasgul
I sold my 4850 with a water block too.. The GTX+9800 55nm played everything the 4850 did and stayed cool . The 4850 was Overclocked 800//2400 like mad ,,to do what the 9800GTX+ does with a stock cooler. Im still testing the GTX+ since i just removed my 3870x2 from my TA770. the 4800 and 3800 series cards will not Display DVI output with the Biostar TA770 Mobo and numurouse other Mobos..If you Google DVI//ATI there are numerouse DVI//HDMI MAD customers.
The 4850 is a nice card for the price ,,but it come with numerouse hassles...
The EVGA 9800GTX+//GTX260//GTX280 install into computer and driver and play.. Its funny how the ATi cards wont display DVI on the Same Monitor with the Same DVI cable and Mobo . Ive tested 3870//3870x2// 4850//4870 ..All had a problem using the DVI out on my Mobo ....To top it Off ,,i may get a GTX260 or GTX280 if the New 4870x2 dosnt run DVI on My new ASUS 79-T..If this happens i will be using Nvidia again for DVI //HDMI,,Even though i like the 4870x2 ,, its only benifit was that i did not need two cards for Crossfire....
Note:
I still wont use SLI or Crossfire with two cards...It has to be a single card and the GX2 suck balls.
Also the 4850 series will not be a BBA ATI card... 3650/3870 4650/4870 series line are..BBA's(BUILT BY ATI)4850 are not.
If your hooked on ATI skip the 4850 and get a 4870 instead if you must have ATI. They can be Had for $250 or less just look around..
4850, its newer tech and is only going up in performance with every new driver. the 9800GTX has been out so the performance has kinda plateaued.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeywoman
Review links and real life are two different things...
A simple Bench run Using my TA770 and 9950@ 3.5ghz..
All i know is the 4850 is not like the bigger 4870...Not even close I have this one Overclocked and it still fell short against the GTX+ Both Cards have 512mb of ram and Run the same exact hardware and Mobo when i benched ..
Only differance ,,i Overclocked the 4850 hoping it would really spank the GTX+:ROTF: still did not help it ,,even though it did gain MORE points vs its stock clocks..The GTX9800+55nm blew right by it in all its STOCKness.
ATI//4850 @ 800//2400.....
with Cat 8.8 (8.522.2) Beta/Alfa to 8.536 Xp ..fastest ATM for this card.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u.../800_1200_.jpg
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...950_3_5ghz.jpg
Nvidia//GTX9800+ 55nm(stock) with 9950@ 3.45ghz...
I even have the CPU 50mhz lower ,,This should give the 4850 a handi cap alright..Even using WHQl 178 driver.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...runstock-1.jpg
The origanal GTX9800 is not as fast...People need to really redo ALL the Bench test with the New GTX+9800 vs 4850.. The Overclocked 4850 couldnt even keep up with a fricken handicap ...Games are the same way...The GTX+ is not the same as a GTX..Its way different with 55nm.. i used 3Dmark06 as a quik referance and i even gave the 4850 The advantage by a big margin at that..
Im Overclocking My GTX+9800 just a little Bit and then ill compare that against both these scores..This will be using the STOCK cooler with no Mods ....The Above 4850 was using Water...:ROTF:piece of jumk i tell ya ..
Try it in real games 3dmark seems skewered.
gOTVOLTAGE you are very lucky to have 3 cards;) Anyway you could do a bench comparing Crysis? And maybe some other games?
as i said ..HD4850 but with 1GB GDDR3 is more comparative to 9800GTX+ than 4850 512MBQuote:
Originally Posted by JS1234
4850 definitely wins if you play game with high resolution and AA,AF enabled
you had to bring up 06 .... :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by gOtVoltage
the only thing in that bench of the 9800gtx+ that is faster is the SM 2.0, in fact it gets beat by 322 points in SM3.0, and what the hell uses sm2.0 anyway.
that said, the 4850 has:
-better 8x AA performance
-DX10.1 (if/when you need it)
-better video playback quality
(no bleeding, better blacks, no ghosting, better control for video)
and you might need to get a 20$ accelero s1 for it, but who really cares, its a solid universal cooler, so its not really fair to tack it onto the vga price
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caveman787
I have,, the GTX+ beats it... The Thing is People have the performance of the origanal GTX confused with the +GTX..
They are two different technologies..the LaterGTX sucks balls..The 55nm performs night and day over it ..i Know i exchanged a GTX for a GTX+ and had tested both against my 4850...The first genGTX was back and forth with the 4850..The GTX+ left it in the Dust..
..The GTX+ tails the 4870 not the 4850..
4850 will beat the firstgen 9800GTX,, 4850 gets beat by NewGen GTX+55nm GTX+55nm which scales closer to the 4870 .The 4870 which wipes its --- with GTX+:ROTF:.
ATI IS King ATM with 4870 series...the 4850 does not perfom well on its own..maybe in CROSSFIRE or TRIPPLE but not by its self. Especially the 512mb version..
What about the DVI play back issues,, and No fan support,, bad powerplay and Overclock functions in CCC ,,oops those are big too...If your looking for a card that you can throw in and not replace the stock cooler the 4850 is not the one to get...
Besides 3dmark06,,babling... The 485O was heavily overclocked ..Thats the Only reason the SM 3.0 score was even higher at all. SM3 relies on high Ram freqency ..2400mhz vs 2200mhz is very noticable..If i ran it stock the card would be in the mid 14000..Thats sad.
I was gonna go CROSSFIRE 4850's but my 3870x2 makes three of them look sad real easy..
I use Both ATI and Nvidia ,, i am not for one or the other.. If it was just a matter of saying (get the 4850 its the bomb),,i would not waste my time typing this info..
P.S ill load Crysis.....
Crysis fricken 1.2 updates suck and dont install. so it will be with the Unpatched 1.1...Im shure i have some screens of My 4850 with Crysis...If not ill need some one to run a Stock 4850 so i can post all AA benches with GTX+9800.. I also am benching @ 3.45ghz Phenom...I can lower the Clocks to 3.0ghz if i need too
did u change the name of 2dmark before benching amd throttles their cards now, and NV uses custom filters and changes prerendered frames so that 500 point difference will go way
and gtx+ and gtx both have the 65nm, there are few gtx+ with the 55nm, and they are the same architecture just oced
test usefull things like COD4 or UT
I have one right now on my 8800gt. Only problem is when i go to put it on a 4850...bye bye warranty!Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
who cares, if u broke it u oced it or hit unlock on CCC and that voids the warranty, just put the old one back on if u care so much and send it back
they also cant void the warranty for removing the cooler its part of normal use and maintenance since u should change the paste every so often so it wont cake, if u damage it by romiving the cooler is different than removing it
Um, my 4850 @835/1200 beats a stock 4870 in every bench I have tried. I don't know how much a 9800 will OC, but considering the 4850-->4870 is just a memory difference I doubt a 9800 will scale as well. And, even though I am on water, this OC is easily achievable with an Accelero.
And to the fool using 3dmark06, that crap is cpu bound. Try vantage if you need a synthetic to prove it to you.
All things stock, I can only think of Crysis where the 9800gtx(+) wins...
But, as for Nvidia vs ATI.....EVGA FTW!
Ive emailed Nvidia and EVGA when the GTX+ first came out.The GPU coding for 55nm was the same as the old 65nm so it would register as 65nm on some cards,,Rivatuner would only read 65nm,,Wizzard could not get the GPU's to display correct info untill Nvidia corrected the GPU coding problem with the 55nm GPU's.. ATM The GTX+ comes in 55nm only. the First Gen9800GTX is 65nm...the 9800gt is 65nm 2007 - 2008/june..2008july was the only 9800gt HYBRID card that came with 55nm ..Some cards had left over 65nm on GT's only....Ive even confirmed with BFGtech as well..Quote:
Originally Posted by zanzabar
As for the SM3 score being low ,, well i just raised the GPU to 800 and memory to 1150..on GTX+9800 (this is still lower than the 4850 clocks i used...im almost at 16000 now .. the 4850 dosnt even come close..
I know dont even say it,,I ONLY use 3dmark06 just for a quik speed referance only...and to test Overclock some before i game ( so please dont bash me on this)
If a card has a abnormaly low score ,, dosnt run or corrupt runs then something is or may be way off system wise. Even a Oc can be too big period.. Usually overheating and or a card may not be switching its powerclocks properly (powerplay for example or Hybrid switching).3Dmark06 helps find the culprit when pushed too far with stock cooling.
I will always use games for my final thoughts ...
ATM,,Crysis is at my Nieghbors who will be home after graveyard..so i may not post Crysis till tommorw...
Maybe ill download the new Warhead demo/bench...I dont have many Games ATM due to my brother taking them..So bear with me..The GTX+ scales better than the 4850 overclock wise with a mere 100mhz less on the Vram too ,,GTX9800+ Overclocking with stock cooler its already far past what the 4850 overclocked in my first post score( was max the 4850 did).
1st overclock on 9800GTX+,,
50mhz more than stock on GPU//150+mhzShader//50mhz on vdimm = 2300mhz...
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...TX9800plus.jpg
Oh the Overclocking with the 4850 was done using AMDgpuCLOCKtool with CCC overclcoking disabled and No throttling...I very aware of ATi's problems as well as Nvidia's...Also ATM HYBRID 55nm tech performs better than the 55nm PowerPlay...
15500+ using a Single 9800GTX+ and Phenom? .
Even with a Single 4850 and Phenom..?
On stock cooling , no Vmods. Ive seen Scores above 16000 but they are SLI or CROSSFIRE with a Q series @3.6+...this is what made me put my two cards head to head.. I kept the overall best performer for Overclocking and FPS and Reliability...The 4850 was not reliable with heat problems(thats why i water cooled it) it had bad powerplay issues untill i kept the Clocks the Same for 2d/3D..Shouldnt have to do that with any driver period!..
I should be able to post some Game results tomorrow hopefully..If not it will be a week ,,Because ill be off to Bakersfield SoCal till then.
so your saying you compared the 4850 with CAT 8.5 to current release Nvidia drivers... thats a proper comparison :down::down::down:Quote:
Originally Posted by gOtVoltage
next person to post a 3DMark06 run gets hit with the banstick.
also, a quick search through Newegg shows me that most 4850's being sold right now have dual slot aftermarket coolers. so you can all throw the cooler idea out the window too.
next excuse? i'm surprised no one has said they "just don't like red" yet.
yeah no need to put up 3dmark benches its no contest at same cpu speeds..
the gtx+ is not 55nm?.....lol just like the aa is better on the 4850.
screw it wait for a intel card
what i found was wierd when it came to aa.af on the 4850 is that say in SSII i'd benchmark it highest setting and seen that it ran 5-7fps faster than the gtx+.....but till i looked close and seen jaggies all over the darn thing,the 4850 would not even set aa/af or if it did it looked bad.
that may have happened in some reviews idk?
and they finally have a proper cooler yippy...and in 4-5 months a better driver....man the old tech gtx+ is got the new tech 4850 looking old
Ok i wont use that 3Dword anymore...
I do Like Red Team alot..
3870's and 4870's...
4850's are nice for the price when they run right and dont have CCC/ powerplay or profile issues..Or overclocking issues with Driver.
I was trying to Compare Stock vs Stock using PHENOM @ 3.45-3.5ghz..
I gave the 4850 the Advantage .
I even Watercooled it ,so the heatsink would not be a factor,,
I didnt want fan profiles or CCC fubaring results(limiting Overclocks)..it still lost clock for clock GPU vs GPU vram vs vram..
(16161)GTX+..830//2400mhz ,Yes thats nice on StockAir.
(15086)ATI4850 @ 800/2400mhz its not running Slow either..
The GTX+ is that much faster speed wise,, the 1000+ points shows that. Now for AA/AF thats where Games Come into play..
Its real easy to see how the 4850 and 9800GTX+ Perform speed wise CLOCK 4 CLOCK. Im no fricken Guru ,, this aint rocket science.
NOTE:
The Cat driver I used was XP/32bit 8.8 BETA(8.522.2 for 4800series which was also the testBeta/Alfa to 8.53 (8.9cat) for XP32 . It is NOT CAT8.5...Please Do not state i used CAT8.5 when i did not .
GTX+ is not slow at all..
Its reliable and can run the same framrates as the 4850...
It even overclocks better clock for Clock . 10.1 is useless ATM..new cards will trump these when 10.1 is of any use at all.
You guys probally hate me by now:D
P.S. GTX+ = 55nm Its not a 65 remake.
thanks gotVoltage
man gotVoltage,your ram on the gtx+ is slow mine goes 2500+:D
hahaa i only just started with this thing.. ,,You joking ,,it does 2500mhz with stock cooler?Quote:
Originally Posted by cowie
yup 2560 for one card other does 2575!!
he he more 3d
i i know know just meaningless benchmarks
its no rocket with stock volts and fan but close enuff
842/2100/2420
default fan speeds 35% test fan speed 100%
runs so cool that i thuoght maybe riva was wrong, but than i thuoght riva temps wrong? no way lol
i could not get this card over the 50c range in 69f room.
all i did was tighten the heatsink screws and turn up fan,so its out of the box performance.
o6 16700
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4934/061gtxcy7.png
06 done with e8500@4.1
o3 e8500 @4.27 842/2100/2420
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/8359/gtx033zq1.png
52k
compared to a voltmdded,cooler and fan modded 4850 with a qx9650 no less????
here o3 4850 @920/1185 qx@4.4!!
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/6641/n03vr6.png
ok 4850 920/1185 qx4.4 17800 set to kill 1.55v
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/8383/n062hq1.png
remember boys and girls dont try this on a stock 4850 fan
BTW ACs1 cooler 30usd and fan was 20usd,at least the pencil for v-mod was free
both cards set to perfomamce at driver level
so cool running and fast,what you expect from a 200usd card
================
more gtx+ 3d
last page of my gtx+ vs 4850 in 3dmarks my fav games<no crappy console port at least lol
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread....07#post2784607
thats the best drivers for 3d mark for single cardQuote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
1600x1200 8xAA/16xAF the 4850 is 41% faster than the 9800GTX+
Link
Get asus, you can pull the cooler and keep the warranty. I think visiontek is the same way also, plus they have a lifetime warranty. Powercolor has a lifetime warranty too.Quote:
Originally Posted by JS1234
They trade blows here and there. The GTX+ is usually faster without AA, while the 4850 is generally faster with 8x AA. But it all depends on the game, resolution, settings... Not possible to make an absolute statement.
The OP should just read a few reviews and decide based on the results @ his monitor res, AA preference and games.
We are not helping him with so much subjectivity, 3dmark etc... there is plenty of concrete, solid evidence out there, so he can make an informed decision.
I just can't believe these guys keep on posting synthetics. :shakes: For reference, in 3dmark06 If I push my 4850 from stock to 835/1200 I get a pretty weak increase. Still far below a 4870. Doing the same in Vantage allows me to push past a 4870. 3dmark06 or before is NOT accurate for current gen gpu's. Other limiting factors set in. Maybe some actual worthwhile comparisons will be posted by those who have both, but since this has already been stated like 50 times in this thread I wont hold my breath :down:.
Are you sure? Because the main thing that im worried about is the 3rd party cooler. I know my A S1 is better then any cooler some company sticks on there.Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO
Well i have. I have read tons of reviews and it looks like they're about even. I just thought id ask people who knew more then me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonucci
This is such a tough decision because they're both good cards. In all of the reviews the 4850 wins then the 9800GTX+ wins. Maybe to help decide i should look at warranties? I mean if there really isnt a clear winner here then wouldnt you look at that? It's not like a 4870 vs GTX280 where you know the GTX is a bit better, but the 4870 is like half the price.
what is all you do is game?:p:Quote:
Originally Posted by adrift02
i did not mean to freak any one out posting 3dbenchmarks:)
the only actual worthwhile comparisons with these cards is only what i see for myself,you may differ.
you can't go wrong either way believe me,those 4850's can clock on air very well also(with cooling and volts)
flip a coin already:D
I was actually referring more to gotvoltage's multiple posts of misinformation.
I would honestly like to see a true overclock performance comparison (using games or at least a true synthetic test like vantage...preferably games).
I expect BS like ATI drivers are worst in other forums but really I see it here more than in other sites, and all the other fud like build quality and worse AA. Also if you're going to claim one card trumps the other in most games then post those game benches with detailed info instead of 3dmark06 only so everyone can see how much faster it really is. We're not really learning anything in this type of threads other than who's a fanboy of which brand.
I had no problems with HD4850 ever since i bought it. Not performance and not stability wise either with hardware or software. It overclocks nicely and have now even flashed it with higher clocks permanently. If AMD continues this trend i'll most certanly buy their next card. It's simply good :)
I only used 3Dmark06 to show the overclock Comparison ( a Quik test )....
Its lame how people just like to crap.
No Vista on the Oc rig or i woulda used that other bullcrap test too to show the Clock speeds ...funny how some people cant read ,,
As i typed " ill post GAME Benches when i get back from Bakersfield"..but they are just blind and inconsiderate.
I use both Nvidia and ATI...
The GTX+ has less headaches/problems/even the Driver can be removed and installed easier for most people...It Dosnt overheat ,, It Dosnt limit the Overclock with CCC,, It dosnt need a after market cooler,, To top it off A EvgaGTX+ has a better warranty vs Sapphire,ASUS AND Visiontek..
You Know its too easy for Fanboys to bash people . Im not a Fanboy of either .Its amazing how the ATi fanboys bite when i point out troublesome facts beside thier oooo i can run 8xAA or it beats GTX+ this and that. Hahaa 8xAA/AF isnt everything and is one of the only real things 4850 has along with the DVDcodecs..
A 4850 FPS wise ,,its close in almost every resoluntion. The GTX+ performs the same or outshines it FPS.. teh 4850 has the AA but not the overallSpeed/FPS. Its a give or take effect. ..Just GOOGLE the numerouse reviews...
Price of ignorance is high ,,Reliability and Ease of install and A great warranty should come before anything else.
I even thought at once the 4850 OMG it has 8xAA at bla bla bla,,Really dosnt make a crap differance between 4xAA and 8xAA in most games/ resolutions that Either card could run..Youll also have to turn AA down some anyhow to get a balance of performance and looks.
Hmm last time i checked DX10 and DX10.1 guys its practically the same fricken thing,, Most likely DX10/10.1 will be revised and outdated before you can take advantage of it...
Think what you want of me... You can find out any/all the problems people have experianced with 4850/GTX+ again with a simple google..
3Dmark06 screens . Seems to of agitated some ATIfanboys..Funny to see people hate so much..I wish there were more disrespectfull people like that ,, Makes me wonder why Our Brothers and sisters fight for some ones stupid disrespectfull freedom.
To the OP,,
Look at the whole picture not just AA/FPS 4850ATI Fans say its the best hands down..50%people say 4850 wins,, 50%say theres more to it than that..
Would you jump in front of a Train because your friends say it will stop in time..It takes about a 1/4mile ..
ATI,,
Asus Toxic comes with Zalman cooler 3yr,, Visiontek is only Lifetime Warranty for ATI..Stay away from Sapphire..
Nvidia ,,
Lifetime Warranty BFG-tech or EVGA Stepup/limited lifetime and XFX/double lifetimeWarranty
Im shure youve noticed Each card has its ups and downs.. Ive decided to not post the Crysis /Warhead game benches sorry,,
A few know everything,,they dont need the comparision..
Yeah right, fanboy because I ask for benches, whenever I ask for benches and proof it's an ati fanboy whining and whatever shyt, right? Just cut the bs and post those benches so someone actually learns something useful. You said earlier it gets beat and we're supposed to take your word for it? And then now we should just google for reviews, geez I wonder why I haven't done that? Oh right I already have, since months ago! I don't even care if the 4850 loses by 10+ fps in all games because from where I am Nv cards are a lot more expensive, just because you got price cuts doesn't mean the whole world did. The point? I bought the card based on the best deal not some blind loyalty to a brand. I'm not the one who claimed anything so I don't have anything to prove. If the GTX+ is actually a lot better in most games then that makes the choice easier, I haven't seen your benches though just 3dmark06. Oh hey the 2900XT gets good scores in 3dmark too, it must be one hell of a card, no?
its easy to find numbers on the net
http://media.bestofmicro.com/P/E/114...-framerate.png
whats the coin toss now being disputed?lol
To quote him, "Review links and real life are two different things.." and you show Tom's testing?:rolleyes:
He said the GTX+ is hands down better,I'm curious to see his results, show me the benches because I wanna know by how much, it's a fanboy thing. He's not going to own me by showing the GTX+ is really better, it just adds to the data, spewing bs and fud does not.
And the DVI thing, it's possibly Nv drivers corrupting the edid so yeah, ati has worse drivers.
well i tried to make this point before,you have to see on your OWN rig
i think the 98gtx+ is the winner hands down too but i dont want to start the brickering blah blah stuff.
its not like i go around calling the 4850 card a pos:p::D;)
whats so bad about toms?;)
I have this opinion that tom's testing is questionable, and it's shared by a lot of people, anyway techpowerup is better IMO:Quote:
Originally Posted by cowie
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/S...D_4850/26.html
So looking at that we learn that the GTX+ is faster by 2% than stock 4850 but this is somewhat skewed by the low resolution results and we also have to consider the margin of error. We also have the idea that the "+" gives you 3% more performance than the older 9800GTX which gets you how far in a game? It just so happens that ati is not as petty as nvidia, I mean, they could release a 4850+ or something and I'm glad they haven't, one childish company is enough but who knows.
Now the Max OC result is still up in the air as these threads turn into flame wars with a lot of talk, hence me asking for posted benches and choosing to ignore just plain words. Driver quality argument is bs, build quality argument is bs. Step Up is cool, but it's just another gimmick to separate you from your money more quickly. Stock cooler of 4850 is not enough for XS members, but we got plenty of non-reference cards already that's the same price as the stock ones. It all comes down to warranty, support and price (MIR sucks btw).
Hell I'll be generous and let's assume the GTX+ is 10% faster, that's 3fps in a 30fps game or 10fps in a 100fps game.. wow?
Hell, im just thinking about waiting a month or two (or whenever the time comes) for a 4870 to be closer to $200. I have already seen some on sale for around 250. Not for long though.
So im guessing the 9800GTX+ vs 4850 question is just dumb because they're basically the same?
What is the 4850 supposed to go up against? The GTX260? (Just guessin here) But the GTX260 looks clearly better (and for a price).
And can anyone actually confirm the ASUS voiding warranty thing if you remove the cooler? I mean that's really the only thing that would be stopping me if i was to go out and buy one today.
CCC and POWERPLAY and Overclocking limits along with single slot Overheating ,,shouldnt that help determin the overall performance rating,,..Quote:
Originally Posted by insurgent
Im no Nvfanboy ,just because im showing the negative things many people do experiance . Even fan profile/overheating still not 100%fixed...8.10 may fix that at least from what the beta is showing.
Speed wise ,,you really cant tell between the two cards while gaming except for AA and thats even hard to do. So all the review sites are wrong that show the GTX+ does pull more FPS on average in most GAMES/ reviews vs 4850 except when using 8xAA.
I know AA/AF goes to the 4850 hands down even with brighter/vivid color with same res..
The GTX+ in almost every Game and or Bench performs except for 8XAA you wont tell the differance speed wise,,
Price wise ,,ATI 4850 its a steal...
Superb DVD playback
Nice dispaly/Color
I never said it wasnt a good card.
"I simply showed the several..problems that are common with ATI ATM and heat is a issue with single slot slution."
The GTX+ is more user friendly. It does have a price increase over 4850 and the GTX+ also lacks 8xAA at the Higher resolution.
Coming from ATI fanland i find this Odd,
Some people believe ATI drivers and the 4850 have no problems :rofl:
Real life ..
4850 is affected more so than a 3870 ,4870, .
I can put the 3870x2 and even the GTX+ into the same machine with out any problem back to back with driver installs. The 4850 just has a wierd DVi/HDMi buggyness. Several 4850's i have tried and settled on a ASUS.
Ive tested with,, Even Vista64bit 9600BE/M2N32 Sli deluxe,,XP32bitSP3 9950BE/TA770 ,,Xp64X2-6000+/K9N,, All running systems i have up .
4850 ASUS replaced my 1st and second Sapphire 4850(stockheatsink non toxic) and both did the same crap on each sytem using 8.7/8.8 whql's and betas alike.. Was gonna crossfire them with new GX..Sometimes no output or blanking screen during gaming and Overheating /fan profile,, including limited overclocking with WHQL driver 750/2300. Until i used a MCW60 and ramsinks along with AMDGPuclock tool to unlock GPU past 800.
Beta's worked beter but DVi output was still a problem along with the card not running 75HZ when it was set to it..the 8.8/8.9 Cat drivers would default it to 70HZ with 4850 but 3870x2 had no problem.
Despite pci-e 1.0 or 2.0.. the DVI/HDMI was Clearly driver and 4850 related. This wasnt PSU or impropper driver installs .No it wasnt the EDID display detection /No corruption from the Nvida card. Both 3870x2 and GTX+ can run same Monitor with out any problems,each system also has a 600watt+ PSU or better.
last,
A few links of common buggyness.
Noticed the AA jaggies too with 8.8whql..
Another reason i used 8.522.2beta,,it fixed problems for AA even in older games like Tomb raider Legends and CSS.
http://forums.amd.com/game/messagevi...&enterthread=y
HDMI/DVI..this also happened to me with 8.7/ 8.8 / 8.9whql still not fixed
http://forums.amd.com/game/messagevi...&enterthread=y
One of the best 4850 reviews.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=191096
Note:
There was a small Bios problem and became a slight recall/return for vendors/sales . BBA vendors/sales of Sapphire places like(ComputerCentral)had to send back cards and wait for shipment during the month of July. Some bios faulty cards are still out there by Sapphire..I know first hand and had to return a few.
Other companies ,like Visiontek and ASUS have bios updates on line for them..
Hmm people deciding same thing..
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums...ic_id=26562941
You know the 4850 price is the main factor...its 50/50 toss up
at least you have all the dirt now..
8.10 may fix DVI/HDMI and the fan.
P.s. I will run some games when i get back from Bakersfield.
You know no one here is saying you're calling the 4850 a bad card, not me anyway, and this is one of the more annoying things in XS; putting words on somebody else's mouth. I said show some benches and I got walls of text... twice. Both brands have driver bugs and then it's a matter of hoping for a fix in a month, or 3 months. We can throw links at each other or we can just learn something useful instead with those benches. And stop with the single slot cooling.. really it just reinforces your bias, there are loads of non-reference cards out. I'm sure you're no fanboy, you're just being too defensive right now. Oh and "fanland" haha, nice.
If you want to discuss drivers why don't you share your input here:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...VIEWTMP=Linear
In the end, both have problems and both sides will just claim victory for either side, kinda like the presidential debate.
Edit: opinion of the graphics editor (Derek Wilson)
Quote:
Here's the thing --
In order to get the gamer what he or she wants, a company would need to test all of their hardware to make sure things simply work and regression test all games from the past couple years with that hardware. This is never going to happen.
Both AMD and NVIDIA cut major corners.
AMD has multiple driver trunks, and a rotating schedule of only about 2 dozen titles for regression testing that do not repeat within something like 6 months to a year. If one driver breaks something, it will be at least two months until it gets "fixed" for real (as the next month might not exhibit the same problem, but it also won't necessarily be based on the same code). If one game is dropped from the regression testing schedule, it could break in one driver and not be caught for a very long time (or until reviewers start to complain about it).
We run into the problem a lot, especially with crossfire scaling, of things that used to work not working and then when we point it out, all of a sudden we've got a beta driver with a fix. It's just because AMD dropped that title from their regression testing. Over time they hit a lot of titles, but this is an optimization that does cause issues.
Because you can't have monthly WHQL drivers with the latest features on the latest hardware all regression tested on everything everyone could want to play. There isn't enough time there to do all the necessary QA. All the driver has to do is pass Microsoft's WHQL testing ... which is easier than actually working in all relevant games.
NVIDIA does something else --
They don't always test all their hardware every cycle. We'll see beta drivers tested completely first on high end hardware or newly released hardware. Older stuff is left out of testing, so we have divergent driver versions necessary for different classes of hardware. Since NVIDIA uses a unified model (at the moment), all drivers should work on all hardware, but if it hasn't been released to support a specific card then that means it hasn't been QA'd on that card.
NVIDIA regression tests with many more titles per WHQL release, but at the same time, there is much more time between WHQL releases. This gives them a longer period to look at more things, but at the same time stuff can stay broken for longer.
If all this stuff is really interesting, I could take some time and talk to AMD and NVIDIA again (we've had this discussion with them before) and I could do a write up about it explaining the pros and cons of both approaches.
Frankly, from my perspective, monthly WHQL is just a marketing tool ... it makes people feel better. But NVIDIA's approach isn't necessarily better -- it's just different.
Thanks for your Honesty...
I can be stuborn and overly persistant some times,goes along with me age hahaaa.
I can post some results when i get back...Hmm funny i actually got mad a little/ :mad:more so frustrated(didnt think i was explaining my View correct)
Yes i did over type a bit ..It seems lots of people lately including me kinda jump the gun with Videocards. .Ill most likly use COD4 and Crysis ... Warhead and Bioshock could be possiable when my brother returns my Cd's...
Both cards are great and have = differances for most part.
The 4850 is the $cheapest$ but in no way Cheap on perfomance.
P.S. ill have to but heads in that link:D
Basically what you're saying is that: Those that prove/show that the 4850 isn't better? Are questionable and therefore it does not count, just what's your opinion?Quote:
Originally Posted by insurgent
Here, take another one besides tom: http://en.hardspell.com/doc/showcont...13&pageid=3184
Don't forget, that's an overclocked 4850 vs a GTX+ at stock speeds.
I'm really interested on those results. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by gOtVoltage
What I'm saying is, let's refrain from using Tom's as a source regardless of the results but you can read my post anyway you like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasgul
Techreports comparison
http://techreport.com/r.x/sub-100-gpus/warhead-1680.gif
http://techreport.com/r.x/sub-100-gpus/cod4-1280.gif
http://techreport.com/r.x/sub-100-gpus/cod4-1680.gif
http://techreport.com/r.x/sub-100-gpus/hl2-1280.gif
http://techreport.com/r.x/sub-100-gpus/hl2-1680.gif
http://techreport.com/r.x/sub-100-gpus/etqw-1280.gif
http://techreport.com/r.x/sub-100-gpus/etqw-1680.gif
No doubt the 4850 was a kick in the middle of nV's balls ...
And they didn't even test 8xAA
first thing I have to say to that is 3-ghz proc for testing isn't a so good, but passable, although I guess it wasn't xtremesystems benchmarking ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasgul
no AA
http://img.inpai.com.cn/article/2008...863da75dd3.jpg
8xAA
http://img.inpai.com.cn/article/2008...9ae605cb0c.jpg
for the 9800gtx+ you see a 12 FPS loss, the 4850 is less than 6 FPS loss.
unfortunately Hardspell wasn't good enought to force 8x AA in the other games, if they did you would have seen similar performance gap increases wit the 4850 taking the lead in every one.
damn forget the 4850 and GTX+.....LOOK!
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...1&promoid=1078
argh i want to buy it....
Think there are going to be any other revisions out this year?
oh damn, nope, no other revisions this year, 230 CAD$ is a steal!!!!
Yeah but it's a "Palit" and it looks like it basically has no warranty other then the stores.Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
I just bought the 1GB versionQuote:
Originally Posted by JS1234
What do you hope to see in the "new" revisions?