http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...Xcorrosion.jpg
Link to thread. More pics!
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copper top replacement time i'd say....
Is that aluminum ?
Yep.
Read the thread. Guys in Tokyo and they're only replacing with copper tops now he said. Seems they've had a few cases.
There's the rest of his pix in the link.
I only posted it because that's the first clear pic of deep pitting I've seen and I thought others might want to see it.
makes me happy... I just got my GTX :(
As long as you take the proper precautions there's nothing to worry about, but that means changing your coolant every so often and also adding the proper additives to protect your block
Its quite a good design, just add the copper top for safety's sake, I'd say.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofander
Yeah it's only $40 from Petra's Tech Shop. Worth every penny!
I don't know about worth every penny, it should have been included in the first place:shakes:
the customer shouldn't have to pay because swiftech decided to go on the cheap
Cue IanY stating it isn't corrosion because it's made by Swiftech :up:
I have an analogy for the Swiftech Aluminium GTX top, and it goes something like this.
In a perfect world, car manufacturers wouldn't need to install seat belts or air bags because everyone does everything correct on the roads and wouldn't crash.
Meaning, Swiftech should have taken into consideration that users may not have coolants that won't eat away at the plated top, due to being new to water cooling, radiator flushing with vinegar etc.
You can quite happily have a contaminated loop with a FuZion, ApogeeGT etc and the blocks won't start eating away at themselves. Yeah, items may block the pin matrix' of both blocks leading to lack of performance but once it's cleaned the blocks good to go again.
So all that gunk cleans off of the copper where it collects when it separates from the aluminum? The copper is as good as new after water cleaning? BTW, can't link to the thread...
And chainbolt is no dummy... he's been around a LONG time... more bad PR for Swiftech.
Yes, when al and copper corrode, it is the al that gets eaten away.... the copper will be just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElEctric_EyE
Ouch...:eek:
Distilled water loop?
should be ok using penosttin g11 right?
Precisely,Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
and that's the Japanese distributor he's speaking of taking that position.
Well, Gabe tried to pass off the one case that I came across as being calcium deposits... So, currently, I'm seeking the assistance of a lab specializing in metals corrosion, coatings/platings, and failure analysis to check out the part. I could just send it back to Swiftech but, despite what it may cost, this will be much more satisfying. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
I'm rather surprised, considering the spec sheet for those platings, but that's assuming they followed the spec sheet.
At this point, I'm really glad I have no Swiftech items in my loops...
Hmm my guess is that he is using an alu radiator and no proper coolant. 4 months is an extremely short amount of time for that much nasty corrosion... if that's the result of the GTX alone then a lot of people are in trouble.
What troubles me is that we can never conclude if and when alu will be a problem. There are those who never have an issue but others who have a hell of an issue. So which one is it?
After seeing these picts and all the bad propaganda in general I personally prefer trying to avoid aluminum, but, the uncertainty remains.
I am very satisfied with my Swiftech equipment. I was smart enough after researching this exact topic on here that aluminum and copper dont mix, unless you're trying to make a battery... As for those people that want to mass produce and slap stuff together without careful thought, they get what they deserve, a product that works for a time and then fails. As I like to say in the automotive business, it is "built to fail", usually 1 month after warranty is up; they are that good!. Now the company IMHO is smart to put a cheap top on, it gives the customer a cheaper option, and after all it is coated. If you use straight distilled water and change it on a regular basis I don't think you would see that kind of corrosion picture here. I mean there are chunks missing there! Now I also have a MCR320 triple rad, and from all the crap I hear that comes out from these things after they're flushed with hot water, I have not experienced any crud even after I did an initial flush with 50/50 distilled vinegar/water. And the MCP655 pump is super quiet and does not get hot like I hear other pumps do. So put that in yer pipe and smoke it! BTW I will post pics at the beginning of Jan before I do my first flush. This will be 3 months after using straight distilled water only, in a loop with coppper(WB's), brass(rad), and chromed steel(temp sensors and springs in quick disconnect fittings)
Jedda,
Kindly paste those additional pics in here please. I cannot view the link because it requires registration. I just took my own GTX apart for my son and there wasn't corrosion. I grant you that I use Hydrx, which many people don't want to use.
The guy up top, what equipment does he have in his loop and which radiator did he use? Anyway, I'm not in for a pissing contest but my view is that it isn't corrosion. Huge chunks of metal are missing. Why?
I will get Gabe in here to respond again.
Doesn't bother me at all. I'm letting my kid choose which block he wants, and I recommended the FuZion with nozzle because right now its the best performer.
Take all the cheap shots you want, and Mekrel, it isn't corrosion, so nice try :)
So you've seen a picture, can't actually see any more due to the need to register and you know it's not corrosion?
If it's not corrosion, why are we not seeing FuZions and other non aluminium blocks regularly being posted with pictures where crap has been deposited into the bock? Surely if it's user fault, and not dependant on the block itself, we would be seeing the same thing no?
Why don't you go blow your war horn for Gabe to arrive on his steed equipped with lance to do battle against the Aluminium Gestapo .. err I mean email him like usual?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekrel
Sure, I'll e-mail him and let him respond. That's his issue, and its perrogative to deal with it.
The corroded block is someone else's. Its someone else's headache. Not mine. Mine's not corroded. Would I be upset both of mine are corroded? Heck yeah. I will scream bloody murder. So far so good.
Am I a jackass? Probably, but I can't do the worrying for someone else.
Yours isn't corroded is it? If the one above is corroded, then surely yours is corroded as well, right? Everyone else's must also be corroded as well. Well, is yours corroded ?
Pics of mine? I rather stick my penis through a meat grinder than post pictures. Give Nikhsub1 his administrator rights, please. NJKId32, Vapor, Movieman, PhillyBoy.. please.. just give him the right to ban people... then he can stop telling everyone who he would ban if he were a moderator...
Other than that, all I know is that my block is not corroded and I can sleep well. As far as the pic goes, it sux to be that guy. If he did something stupid like not use Hydrx/glycol, then its his issue. Otherwise, I'll just FIDO.
I decided to go with a GTX as well but I only have PT_Nuke and Distilled water in my loop.
From what I understand, I should put some Hydrx in my loop? I already ordered some last week cause I like the green color it gives.
Do I need to drain my entire system or can I add the Hydrx and it will mix itself over time? Will PT_Nuke and Hydrx together cause problems?
My loop has a copper top on it, never actually had the Aluminium top as part of a loop :)
Yes, but you've emailed Gabe for his correspondence to someone else's top in the past.
I would not say using Glycol is a stupid thing, in fact - I think using Glycol in a water cooling loop when there really isn't any need to is stupid.
After all, there are no aluminium parts that have a valid reason to be in our loops. Radiators are best when copper/brass, there are acrylic/delrin reservoirs that do the exact same job as the XSPC aluminium tubes and most blocks are made from copper and some form of plastic.
So surely if the plating on the GTX top is as good as Gabe touted, then Glycol based additives shouldn't have to be used?
Glycol worsens the thermal transfer of water after all :)
Again, if this isn't corrosion then why would you say it's stupid that he didn't run a Glycol based additive? If it isn't corrosion and it's a deposit from a radiator or other source then why aren't the users who've posted pictures of the GTX not having the same crap dumped into their NB/GPU blocks or anything else in the loop for that matter.
Oh... so if nobody else posts pictures of a normal GTX, then all must be corroded eh?
So... one DDC2 dies.. then another one.. then ten more.. then two DDC3.2s die.. so *all* Laing DDC must be absolute crap then, eh? :)
If your car manufacturer tells you to use Mobil One oil, do you go out and use Castrol Syntec or Shell Helix, even though both are just as good? What are instructions for ?
Where did I say all have corroded? I never.
Go back to my example above, why run the risk of making a product that potentially will corrode? I don't make water blocks, but I'm clued up enough to know that every one runs a different form of coolant and that making a block which won't corrode itself due to user error when it can be prevented is the right thing to do.
If you don't use anti-corrosive in a FuZion loop, will the FuZion eat itself? No - so which is the better design?
Great Fire of London, saw houses no longer made predominantly from wood because they didn't just simply say "You know what, sod it - we'll build them from wood and just pretend that no one can make a mistake with fire and if they do then tough it's their fault".
Why not design it so that it doesn't? So we have a FuZion block, that won't corrode and performs better. So again, remind me why the GTX top was made from Aluminium. No wait, I remember. So it could be died and sanded to match an engine cover.
Aesthetics over design when it should be the other way around.
Edit: You think that Swiftech advise using Hydrex because it's the only thing that will prevent corrosion of the product? Again, do we see D-Tek advising own brand additives to stop their block eating itself? I would imagine Swiftech would rather sell 1 bottle of Hydrex for every block they put out for turn over ;)
So you know 100% sure that HydreX is different from the likes of Zerex or any other glycol based additive in terms of preventing corrosion?
This has me slightly concerned, but honestly I'd say it was most likely a rare case that the aluminium wasn't plated properly or it was damaged after plating/anodizing. I currently have a GTX in a box beside me...
I have asked this questions several times before. Hydrx is not regular automotive ethylene glycol. Its not the same antifreeze that is found in Zerex or Pentosin. What else is in it is a mystery to me. Never bothered to find out. What I do know is that I use Pentosin in my car because the manufacturer tells me to use Pentosin. I use Hydrx in my water block because the manufacturer tells me so. I follow instructions.
As to which is a better design, I would leave it up to you to make your own choices. My GTX outperformed my FuZion until the nozzles finally became available. Now, the FuZion outperforms GTX.
Aesthetics over design? I could care less if its dog turd cooling my cpu. You are one to talk. Look at your avatar. You even took to painting your mosfet blocks so that they can look like your NB and SB blocks ! I could care less if my water block had a contraption that looks like a vagina or a middle finger sticking out. The only factor I pay attention to is load temps.
So basically, you're touting HydreX usage as being the reason as to why we have corroded GTX tops without actually knowing what HydreX is?
So the FuZion out performs the GTX, is cheaper, doesn't eat itself even if you use a coolant not recommended by the manufacturer. Hmm, so it's designed better?
Of course the GTX Aluminium top was aesthetics over design, Gabe even said it was a set to match the Stealth. Was no reason why the GTX could have been made from Delrin.
There is no mosfet blocks in my avatar ;)
Yes I did paint some MIPS blocks, but what has that got to do with the GTX eating itself? The paint was behind the O-ring and not in the threads of the barbs, so didn't come in contact with the water. I never even used those blocks, Tom @ ChilledPC did when he used them on my board to pull a 10s SuperPI time before the G0's were even out.
Maybe we'll see an innovative ApogeeGTX Twin Turbo with even smaller pins and a non aluminium top.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekrel
Once again, I'm not the one who painted any blocks. I could care less if the blocks were doo doo brown and lime green or hot fuschia. I'm not the one who gets all hyped up about how computers look and take pics to proudly acclaim how cooling looking my computer is. It could be built inside a toilet bowl and I will gladly use it if it performs at its best. You even went as far to put EK barbs into your GTX to match your other EK blocks lol
Gabe already said that he won't make blocks with acrylic tops. Why he doesn't like Delrin is his decision. I could care less if it is made of cardboard, as long as its the top performing block. For a while it was the best block. And honestly, the price differential between it and teh FuZion has been inconsequential.. a mere $10.. or even if its $30, I could care less. If someone doesn't want to fork over the extra money, its not my business. My heart won't bleed if someone can't fork over that extra $10, because if money is that tight, then precious cash should not be expended on something as silly as water cooling for a computer.
Understand the electrical circuit schematics behind your motherboard? Understand the die structure and electronic connections in your cpu dies? Yet, you use your motherboard and cpu!
I don't have the inclination to go find out the chemical properties in Hydrx. I am told that the GTX works best when its used with Hydrx, then why wouldn't I use it ? If D-Tek tells me that their special coolant (not dye) works well with the FuZion, you can bet your ass that I will use it religiously. Otherwise, I wouldn't use a FuZion.
I'm going to speak clearly here for all the folks watching this, hide your kids, cuz it's rated R, that is Restricted.
Jedda, who do you work for?
Gabe works for Swiftech.
IanY prob worx for Swiftech.
Petras, well we know who he works for...
Mekrel is from Thermochill.
ME, I want the best product from R&D, not BS rumor.
IMHO, there is alot of UNprofessional behavior going on here. From my perspective as 3rd party, those who I start to go with and I see crap like this, I will never order from people that act unprofessional. Real companies let their products speak for them, LOSERS have to speak for THEIR products. So go on speaking CEO's, SPEAK, I CAN't HEAR YOU!
WOW! You really don't have any clue as who works where.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElEctric_EyE
Jedda is an Aussie and is nothing more than a consumer.
AFAIK, IanY does NOT work for Swiftech. Again, another consumer.
Mekrel, Is also another consumer. He does NOT work for Thermochill, that's Marci.
Ah, well thank you for that! Only because I am loyal too, for a good company that produces leading edge products. I am type A personality that will instantly trash a company that screws me too. I'm a n00b that has not been been screwed by any company here so far, but it is disturbing to read some of this BS. BS that I KNOW is NOT true.
Newsflash for you IanY, this thread isn't about mine and your tastes in Watercooling, so please kindly get back onto topic about the GTX and corrosion. Have I ripped into you for wanting to TEC cool your stock PC? No, so kindly take your jibes elsewhere. You're acting like a child who can't deduct a counter argument and has resulted to little jibes.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
We all know you like to buy into your brands, and call everyone else flocks of sheep - you don't need to keep reminding us.
I don't put aesthetics over performance, I put performance whilst still looking good:
- Painted MIPS blocks, no where near threads or the water channel - so no decrease in performance? Not that mosfets require a lot.
- EK barbs? So what? You're telling me that has decrease performance from other barbs? FWIW - I don't use any EK barbs either, they've been changed.
In fact, nothing in that avatar matches my current setup.
The aluminium in the GTX was purely for aesthetics, the block could have been bowed with a tough plastic. The aluminium was for dyeing and sanding to match the engine cover look.
Yeah it's plated, but it's not 100% infallible is it, else we wouldn't be seeing these problems. As far as I can see, you put Aluminium in your loop, you then have to add additive and decrease coolant performance.
Why not, just not put any aluminium in your loop and run water + anti-algae.
I'm not going to post all his stuff. Maybe he will post it here.
I will quote his other relevant point though;
"I went to the vendor where I purchased the ApogeeGTX, which happens to be Japan's biggest specialist for water cooling and also the official importer for Swiftech stuff in Japan. Although he had more than 5 ApogeeGTX on stock, he offered me another waterblock as replacement. I asked him why, and he told me otherwise, I should wait a few weeks until he gets an "upgraded" ApogeeGTX version (?) with a copper cover . That made me suspicious. After digging deeper into this, he finally admitted, reluctantly, that I am not the first one with this problem. Obviously some Apogee GTX were returned with the same problem."
Beyond being a member of both fora I have no dog in this fight. Thought some clear pics might advance the debate. Silly me!
Maybe Alex's tests will.
WTG Alex
I don't know, man. Corrosion it is then. I couldn't care less. Other than that, PEBKAC rules.
And Electric Eye, no offense to you, but real perceptive there eh. I just said that the nozzled D-Tek FuZion is the best performing block. Does it sound like I work for Swiftech ?'
Yeah, time to go back on topic, who hijacked it?
I did. I hijacked it to respond to a very unwarranted cheap shot. From there on, downhill it went, but I didn't start it and I couldn't care less if anyone thinks its my fault.
You're not silly, I love debating :D
I do believe this won't happen if a coolant is properly protected with an anti-corrosion inhibitor to the right ratio. From what I remember HydreX is taken from the racing boat industry, so it wasn't actually designed as such to be used in PC water cooling, but what has been apart from the blocks?
Radiators are designed to fit into cases and be efficient with the flow/pressure levels we use, but the concept of radiators has obviously been around way before PC water cooling.
Tubing again, we use vacuum tubing and beverage tubing.
I just think the ultimate of ultimate protection should have been using a material that isn't as problematic as aluminium if things go wrong. A safety net if you will.
No offense taken m8, I was calling everyone out. Just sounded like a Swiftech trash session, since I use Swiftech and they perform for me and they are in my nic/sig, you call them stupid, you call me stupid. Dig?Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
Yes M8, but then you wouldn't find me calling Swiftech users stupid, would you ? lol You do realize that I am a hyper Swiftech. Yes you do, otherwise you wouldn't have thought I work for Swiftech. BTW, are you registered on the Swiftech forum? Anyway, thank God my line of work has nothing to do with the IT industr, given the personalities here at XS.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElEctric_EyE
It's not a Swiftech dig session, I've used the MCRES and loved it, I rate it as the best reservoir in the industry because it works well with it's mid plate and mounting options.
MCW30 ticks all the boxes of a NB block because it doesn't need to be complex and non-restrictive as possible with a varying mount for different motherboards.
I have an MCW60-R on its way to me because it performs well and Swiftech seem to release stuff faster than D-Tek, so if the new nvidia/ati cards need new mounting plates then Swiftech will probably have them out quickest.
I just think the GTX Alu top was a step backwards. Yes people should read instructions and follow them but that can never be guaranteed, and should have been taken into consideration.
As far as I'm aware, the plating was quoted as being mill spec, so I can't see why HydreX would be needed if it was that good unless Swiftech didn't fully believe there could be a chance corrosion would happen?
Let's wait for Gabe's response. Maybe tomorrow.
From now on, I'll just ignore all this b1tching about corrosion. Not my problem at all. I lose no sleep.
Lol
I have 5 copper tops just in case I decide to use a GTX. I would not feel comfortable putting aluminum in a client build.
The Bowed GTX is a strong performer.
I have seen a very similar Galvanic Corrosion (often misnomered Electrolysis) in other "plated" aluminum blocks: specifically in Alphacool (read junk) GFX blocks.
Once the Coating has even the tiniest flaw the Galvanic force is so strong in mixed metal loops (without additives) that it will begin riddling the aluminum.
The large chunks missing are simly where the metal has literally dissolved into a chalky substance. The remaining aluminum is junk now...completely porous and lacking in structural integrity.
My god I love reading IanY when he's on a rampage :D
I should repost some highligjhts from his rebuttal...they about make me piss myself :ROTF::
Yeah, like Werner von B. said "Never put a human on top of a solid fueled rocket"Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekrel
Its safe most of the time but not all of the time.
Never have liked the move to using automotive power symbols in IT marketing. Whether its swift's block or evga's board boxes they come over as adolescent and creatively Mother Hubbard's cupboard.
Hey, he's taking the piss, isn't he?
Nobody really mixes "self" with brand identification to that degree, do they?
You know... the more the aggravation with my "brand self-identification," it just eggs me on.. makes me all the more enthusiastic about being distinctive.. honestly, makes me all the more happy...
I guess I should just burn my video cards because the blocks are guaranteed to leak and kill the cards anyway. They are pure unadulterated aluminum.
Gimme the piss !!
Thankfully this discussion is limited to water cooling.. without politics lol
Ian,
I wasn't refering to you. Twas the younger generation.
You're obviously not that short of points of self differentiation.
Man what are you on about??? :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElEctric_EyE
what the hell is worx??? Slang.... :rofl:
Very sorry. My apologies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedda
Hey.. a bit more of this and this becomes so familiar! The satellite location for [H] !
I think he got the idea we're all from different companys, busy termiting each others' products.Quote:
Originally Posted by disruptfam
Sort of the WC Guild Wars.:rofl:
this is like a mental tennis match, watching (reading the back and forth)............:rofl:
Water
Cooling
Wars.
WOOT THE W.C.W. HERE ON OUR VERY OWN BACK YARD! (insert commercial break for: Swiftech, Koolance, EK, Petra's, Danger Den, *some random insurance ad*)
"voice over" now back to the action you all have been waiting for!
:announcer A: who is goign to square off tonight Bob?
:announcer B: Swiftech vs DD, followed by Koolance vs EK, though I am sure EK is certain a win, so he will face off against either from the first match, then it will be a Royal chill on the motherboard.
:announcer A: Let's go tot eh ring side with our very own High Flow Barb where we can just feel the pressure building, how restrictive is the loop Barb?
:Barb: Well John, as you can see, the techs are setting up the loops, though there is words between the two teams, from what I can hear they are exchanging heat about which pumps to use.
....................fill in the rest with your imagination.......sorry I was bored..........:rofl: :ROTF:
I still can't hear you... I won the spelling bee and it's spelled worx, worcs, something like that, close enough..(off topic). Back to galvanic corrosion! We all HATE it! We all fear it! Let's do something about it! Distilled water and Copper only!Quote:
Originally Posted by disruptfam
BTW Mekrel, I will put my PCs under triple phase change and underclock them if I want to. I know where this is from, and honestly, it was none of his business, nor honestly none of anyone else's business, if I want to run my machines stock and not overclock them. If I want to play Quake 2 and original Quake, and occassionally I still indulge, I will play it. Its none of anyone's business.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekrel
:clap: :clap: :clap: :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by phelan1777
Was thinking more Wimbledon, but that's 'cause I like cream and strawberries.
Your's was spot on!
You started the thread and hopefully you just ended this thread.
Ok, ok Enough already... I ordered the copper top! You guys happy now???
Please do not confuse plating with anodizing. I really don't know how many times I have to say this but, they are very different processes for treating metal. Anodizing changes the surface of the metal through an electrochemical process. Plating adds a second/third metal to the surface. Of the two, plating is much more durable and reliable. Alphacool uses anodizing to "protect" most of their blocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberDruid
Which I have an opinion on, but that's all - I have zero problem what you do with your hardware, money or electricity. I was merely using it as an example that you shouldn't comment on my choice of barbs or painting a block when it had nothing to do with aesthetics over performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
Yes those choices were made for aesthetics, but with them clearly not affecting performance.
Ouch, bad corrosion... Even with a perfect plating, all it take is a small pinhole ding to cause corrosion so never take chances with any aluminium despite how godly the plating is.
I thought we all :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:ed at Koolance and AC because they have aluminum in their loops because they might cause corrosion, not always will....Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
Two-faced much?
Please guys lets stay on topic and not waste our time fighting like some other forums (which will remain nameless).
Gabe liked the looks of Edelbrock valve covers and fashioned the Apogee GTX after it. It does look cool but the aluminum was one hell of a gamble that apparently backfired, the negative press alone is not good for sales and puts doubts in people's minds. The copper top option is damn sexy and makes for a high class top performing waterblock. I would have thought that Delrin would have been a better choice with the copper top as an option but it is not my company or my call to make.
Since we don't have lab proof of the actual problem all any of us can do is speculate and that can become a pissing match as seen here. So lets discuss what we know and leave the insults out of it. just my $.015
The whole thing is so annoying to me. This all (the corrosion) could have been prevented. In January before the GTX release I told Gabe not to do it in aluminum, I begged him and pleaded. Ya'll see how well that went.
Sure hope folks are taking a look at those Stealth waterblocks once in a while.
$.02
WERE NEVER HAPPY!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofander
MUHAAAUHAUHAUHUAHUAHAHUHAUHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA
Lol...
You're barking up the wrong tree dude. Show me a post where I have crapped on Koolance and AC. In fact, I was supporting an assertion by a third party that some of the world's foremost watercooling experts use Koolance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shlomo
Number one on the list is Victor Wang. Anybody care to go up against Victor's knowledge about hardware and computer systems ?
Why do I have a feeling this is another case of a guy running straight water in his loop and is now crying foul? He has been asked on two different forums (he has an agenda) and has yet to answer what was in the loop, fluid wise.
What I can prove is how nobody should take you seriously in any watercooling discussion when you are so clearly blinded by your Swiftech Fanboism.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
What.. brand prejudice... no way, isn't that what you so highly possess? Last time I checked, the fuzion does outperform the GTX, has no aluminum, and is the same price, sounds like a win win win to me. I would trust the word of Niksub1 over the word of God when it comes to watercooling. You are welcome to drown your system with Xerex, Pentosin, or HydrX to keep corrosion from occuring, while taking away the ability for your coolant to carry heat away from the processor just to prove your point. I'll happily keep my pure distilled water loop, reap all the benefits of copper only, and be on my merry way.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
Rick, it shouldn't matter what he ran in his loop. The top is corroded. It would not happen without aluminum. Period.Quote:
Originally Posted by RickCain
what was he running ? puke cooling :p
I run straight distilled water with my loop and my GTX is fine :)
I bet the guy bashed the inside of that top with some rocks before putting it back together and ran it awhile lol... just to stir up trouble
OOH .. better yet, he SANDED the inside of it.. before putting it hahaha
Guys, why the flaming and names here?
Why the speculating?
Why talk sh1t?
This is no [H], let the man post if he needs/wants to! 3 pages of crap! I saw the thread and thought - wow 3 pages, something must be going on. NOT!
We should all wait on Gabe/OBR to post a statement
Actually, if he had an Aluminium radiator there would have been less corrosion of the top as the radiator, having much larger surface area, would act as a sacrificial anode. However, if the base and the top are electrically connected (metal screws?) then there may be no way around this other than by using the required anti corrosion additives.Quote:
Originally Posted by migueld
here is a rather simple theory, to me anyway.
We are humans , we make poor decisions sometimes. ALL OF US!
Yes sometimes its funny to pick on someone for a "DOH" moment, we all have and do it, and have it done to us.
This is XS, and we sometimes try to not be like other forums.
My previous post in here was mocking the whole tit for tat because well.......its stupid.
Maybe Gabe made a mistake, or the owner of the block, we don't know for fact right now, so in true XS fashion may we just sit tight and wait for results, at least one thing that brought me here was NOT the bickering but the:
Poster A: I saw/heard/read/did this, here is my results/link/pic/etc!
Poster B: "ask question relate to posted results."
Poster C: "ask question relate to posted results."
and so one.
Short time after discussion/debate continues based on facts and relate theorys.
Not the middle school he said she said.
Yes, don't do like [H] and debate without facts... I'm tired of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shlomo
Just to make things clear, I could give a flying fig what anyone thinks of me, including yourself and especially someone in particular. Nobody should take me seriously and I don't want anyone to do so. I do things my way and you do things your way... actually the way of your preacher, but I'll leave it at that.
Yeah... I'm a little kiddie who will lose sleep about some nonsensical internet reputation... gimme a break.
And if this isn't supposed to be like [H], then stop lobbying unwarranted scud-like accusations behind peoples' backs...
It does matter! If a person drives a car into a wall is it the cars fault since it has the ability to do it?Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
I am a believer that each person should take responsiblity for their actions and if that means taking all the necessary pre-cautions so be it. We can't instantly blame the block when the person "might" not have done anything to prevent it.
On a side note you are correct without aluminum bolted to the block it could not happen. Given the attention on mixing aluminum with copper it is hard to believe the purchaser didn't know the risk before he hit the buy button and input his payment information.
But Rick, the top is uber plated is it not? I should be able to run straight water in there with no fear of corrosion according to Gabe?
he got you there Rick...
Yes, I remember Gabe saying it's so well plated that we can run distilled water only without issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by septim
I don't buy that uber plating crap! Even though I have run many other manufactures products with aluminum in the past, I always took the necessary steps to minimize my risk and have been very successful. That being said, I would NEVER use a block that bolts aluminum to copper directly regardless of the manufacture. I believe that with them bolted together it would increase the risk a hundred fold.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
You will be hard pressed to prove the buyer didn't understand the risk before he hit the buy button.Quote:
Originally Posted by septim
End of the day the best way to get this fixed is to not buy the product. The manufacture will ultimately get the hint when the product doesn't sell and stop offering it.
No, that was not my intention. Point is, according to swiftech the top is plated/coated with 'Military Spec' plating so no corrosion will occur. This says to me it should be just as good as plastic or copper - but we all know it's not. The average user may not though.Quote:
Originally Posted by septim
Well you know what you are doing, most out there do not nor do they take the precautions...Quote:
Originally Posted by RickCain
At the end of the day you are correct. I told gabe I would NEVER buy a block with aluminum in it even if it performed 10C better than anything else.
We are all like those little ions fighting each other in the al/cu loop corroding away, LOL. Thought I'd throw that in for some humor. I love this place!
I do not recall ever saying that one could run pure distilled water in their loop. A quick search in my own posts revealed nothing.
We sell THOUSANDS of these blocks, I just called Michelle on her cell (was on an errand) she can't even recall ONE RMA !
I would never run a system on pure distilled water for any extended period of time, because even exposure to air while filling the system will allow bacteria in the loop, which in turn will allow algae growth, and then mineralization.
The user in this post admitted using tap/demineralized water (filtered?) without additives.
Anti-corrosion/algaecides additives are needed for any prolongued usage in any water-based coolant loop.
Notwithstanding the fact that it is an insult to the average user, the argument consisting in dummyfying such average user to justify the anti-AL debate is specious at best. Sure there are a few dummies out there, but an extraordinarily vast majority of users read and follow the instructions. I have seen posts of ppl with all kind of non Swiftech blocks with residues/build-ups in their block. The fact that we also see a few with Swiftech blocks reflect two basic facts: 1/ we sell a lot of blocks, and 2/ ppl who read and post on XS have been sensitized to the AL debate by a few hardcore individuals.
buttshield in full effect!Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
Take that alu-phobics :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
:ROTF:
The battle continues... :yepp:
wow that is pretty bad
Since nobody would post all the pics, I'll go ahead. Don't blame me for the size of the pics.
He used tap/demineralized water. He didn't use distilled water. He didn't use any additives.
This is a quote and a half:
"The majority of the people are not dumb, and just because there are a few dummies out there does not mean that we have to make products just for them. There are protocols to respect in any technical environment."
Okay, well it obviously shows corrosion on the aluminum top, tap water or not it is a failure in the plating...
While it may of been user error (screw stuck into it, who knows) I still wouldn't risk it, pentosin or not. It's a personal belief
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shlomo
Fine opinion. The manufacturer has spoken. You have every perrogative to believe what you like to believe.
I would like to be pointed to where he said he used tap water.
Gabe said that Chainbolt admitted to using tap/demineralized water. I'm just following up on the facts gathered. I'm not privy to a presumed private conversation that did not involve me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Borgod
Yes I know mate, Im also wanting the facts.
I'm asking Gabe, where did he say he used tap water? Or was this an assumption made since he hasn't made it clear what he did in actual fact, use?
Can somebody please just use battery acid in their loop and take some pics and post them. Then start complaining how bad a manufacturers product is, I really need a good laugh. Tap water only gets a chuckle out of me. TIA
Lets back up a minute here guys. Is the GTX top supposed to be coated or plated? If so what is it's purpose? I thought it was to make it so there is no bare aluminum to come in contact with the water no? If this is the case why the hell does an additive need to be used? We don't need to prevent corrosion since the coating of the top should do this. Someone please tell me I'm wrong. Cause guess what. I have run for about 1.5 years WITH NO ADDITIVE JUST DISTILLED WATER. Guess what. Nothing corroded. Is it because I am 1337? Or is it because I had no aluminum in the loop? If corrosion inhibitors NEED TO BE used with the stock GTX top then IT MIGHT AS WELL BE BARE ALUMINUM.