Superpi score proofs Phenom X4 is a bit faster than Athlon64 X2...

In yesterday's “QX6850 VS QX9650 VS PhenomX4” we've already understand what situation Phenom may face. Some of you suggested that maybe let Phenom run some "normal banchmark" to see it's real protential. So now we are sharing the latest Superpi score of Phenom X4.

The test bed is the same one in yesterday, also the same 790FX(Gigabyte MA790-DQ6 is already selling in Guangzhou about CNY2588,about 346USD) 1Gx2 dual channel memory in 375MHz x2, WinXP. But we adjusted the memory to 3-3-3-9-1T.

http://www.expreview.com/img/news/07..._superpi_s.png

At last, the Superpi 1M is 27.531s, and the 30M is 26m28.531s. It is of course better than Athlon 64 x2, but we are using x4 now..

seems Phenom X4 is facing a serious situation.

Anyway, we managed to find out some interesting info about Phenom X4's funtion. I think after all this bad news about Phenom X4, AMD fanboy finally can get some happy info about it. we are now writing some story about it, pleaese keep XtremeSystem and Expreview tuned. :)

http://www.expreview.com/news/hard/2...6099d6667.html

thing that drives me nuts here.... is I dont care what it does at Pi.
I want game benchmarks.
thats all I been waiting for.
all I ask for.
still nothing.

pi doesnt tell me anything about real life.
game benchmarks do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kunaak

thing that drives me nuts here.... is I dont care what it does at Pi.
I want game benchmarks.
thats all I been waiting for.
all I ask for.
still nothing.

pi doesnt tell me anything about real life.
game benchmarks do.

---

Well, at least it shows there's some improvement...

Though that is to be expected, I'm hoping for a leap and a bound above the Athlon X2 performance...

Ouch. 27s on 1M is comparable to... Intel @ 1.83ghz.. or something like that.. E6600 Does like 19s on stock 2.4ghz

I think we want more relevant benchmarks.

Superpi wasn't really AMD strong point anyway....

Give us real-life benches in games and such!

Heh, isn't that somewhat of an oxymoron, real-life in games? :wth: :lol:

I want something more intense, like Cinebench :)

If nothing else you can still have the hollow consolation that Phenom will dominate specfp_view. :p:

why didn't they run those timings in yesterday's tests? just because one platform can or can't run certain timings isn't the fault of the other....

so we have seen crysis benches and now PI. what more do people need. we have all the Barcelona numbers here as well including games and it all goes along the lines of it only being a little faster than K8. honestly an X4 at 3ghz this is down right sad when my old P4 could match this number not to mention a core at 2ghz beating the pants of it. while PI still runs better on intel. this is still a major let down after all this time and hype.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kunaak

thing that drives me nuts here.... is I dont care what it does at Pi.
I want game benchmarks.
thats all I been waiting for.
all I ask for.
still nothing.

pi doesnt tell me anything about real life.
game benchmarks do.

---

yesterday we did a test with Phenom X4 using Crysis built-in cpu benchmark.
Crysis CPU benchmark: QX6850 VS QX9650 VS PhenomX4

Ouch ! With my opty @ 3 Ghz I get +1 sec (28,53x)

But like everybody said, I want to see other benchmark results especially gaming benchmarks

Forgive my ignorance, but is AMD releasing Phenom X4 @ 3GHz? Or are these OC'd?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John600rr

Forgive my ignorance, but is AMD releasing Phenom X4 @ 3GHz? Or are these OC'd?

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Rumoured to launch at 2.2 to 2.6ghz

Hmm. I'm not quite understanding where AMD is planning to place these in their line up. It kinds of seems like they are going to not only compete against that 'other' company as well as themselves.

They could market it flying the Quad core flag, but seem to be getting nailed by their rival in performance and in price.

Or they could market it as being more efficient, clock for clock and more powerful in single threaded apps. But they seem to be getting beat by their own CPU's when the number of cores isn't a factor. (X2 6200 @ 3.2GHz would seem to beat or at least be even with their 2.6 Phenom).

I don't know, anybody have any thoughts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [XC] hipno650

so we have seen crysis benches and now PI. what more do people need. we have all the Barcelona numbers here as well including games and it all goes along the lines of it only being a little faster than K8. honestly an X4 at 3ghz this is down right sad when my old P4 could match this number not to mention a core at 2ghz beating the pants of it. while PI still runs better on intel. this is still a major let down after all this time and hype.

---

Well, no matter how many reviews / benchmarks there are, some won't accept them unless it is to their liking.

By the way, I am building a Barcelona cruncher now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John600rr

Or they could market it as being more efficient, clock for clock and more powerful in single threaded apps. But they seem to be getting beat by their own CPU's when the number of cores isn't a factor. (X2 6200 @ 3.2GHz would seem to beat or at least be even with their 2.6 Phenom).

---

not to mention that intel is stronger in single threaded apps and faster clock per clock.

the only thing i can see them doing is going for price. as in dirt cheap quads:D

some one lock this sad excuse for a thread.

It's sad, I was really expecting more from AMD.

Rbs.

They could do ok if they can price them under say under $150.

:mad:

Ok. Why are supposedly informed XS users debating irrelevant results of phenom x4 in a single-threaded bench?

I had the same trouble yesterday trying to figure out why all the commotion over an intel optimised game time bench (crysis).

I think I made a mistake. Someone told me XS was a place for xtreme-enthusiasts and that a lot of clued up guys frequent this forum. So I joined in the hope of learning something.

All I've seen so far are a bunch of kids posting silly immature statements.

This thread proves that soldners words cant be trusted, although to me thats not news.

[QUOTE=teabag;2522325]*snip*
Rant by banned person
/*snipQUOTE]
[EDIT]
This post didn't make sense with the comment deleted by admins...

Best Regards :toast:
[/EDIT]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by teabag

:mad:

Ok. Why are supposedly informed XS users debating irrelevant results of phenom x4 in a single-threaded bench?

I had the same trouble yesterday trying to figure out why all the commotion over an intel optimised game time bench (crysis).

I think I made a mistake. Someone told me XS was a place for xtreme-enthusiasts and that a lot of clued up guys frequent this forum. So I joined in the hope of learning something.

All I've seen so far are a bunch of kids posting silly immature statements.

---

Great first post. Enjoy a great first ban. Trolling, baiting, and forum-flaming is unacceptable on XS. XS is a place for Xtreme enthusiasts, not trolls.

I'd like to see someone bench 3dmark01, 05 and 06 at 3GHz with all game/test scores listed. That would give me a feel for this cpu.

Regards

Andy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zakelwe

I'd like to see someone bench 3dmark01, 05 and 06 at 3GHz with all game/test scores listed. That would give me a feel for this cpu.

Regards

Andy

---

+1..... :)

Kyosen-san tested server K10 vs server K8.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=170
Retail stepping will show some performance boost for sure. And also, all these benchmarks were done with very, very slow ram.
Also there are 3dmark06 benches with 8800gt.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=181
AMD was never been strong in superpi, even in netburst vs K7/K8 times.
If now we compare pricing between AMD and Intel, AMD is winner in oem/entry/mainstream market. x2 6000+ is cheaper than E6550 by about 10$ and x2 6000+ is faster in most benchmarks. In Latvia x2 6000+ is about 15$ cheaper average. And if we talk about boards, compare amd boards with intel boards. Lets say, difference from nF520/560/570 boards and P31/P35 is very big. For 80$ you can buy BIOSTAR TF560 A2+ boards. One of the best boards for AM2 if you don't need sli. I would say this is best boards. Lot better than Asus M2N series. Cheapert overclockable Intel boards with P35 starts from 100$. BIOSTAR TForce TP35D2-A7 is 105$. So you can get faster AM2 setup for 35$ less. I don't see any reasons why AMD is bad or slow in this view. Off course if you need pimprig, AMD doesn't have desktop quads or anything that can beat E6850 now. But as i said in oem/entry/mainstream market AMD is looking better than Intel.
If we talk about barcelona, AMD Opteron 2344HE(1.7Ghz) costs 215$. If quad K10 chip with ~1.8Ghz will cost 150$ in Q1 '08 Intel should start to worry. Why? Of course all pimprig owners would already have yorkfields, kentsfields clocked at 4Ghz and laughing at AMD in every thread in every forum. But for people who doesn't overclock AMD would be lot better choice. Cheap quads, cheap dualcores is what people need. Lets say, people who are interested in overclocking are about 0.02% of all worlds population who have computer. But having 4 core processor for 150$ is wow!
Yes, this is xtremesystems and we doesn't care about pussies who doesn't overclock, but i hate these intel fanpois threadcrapping over and over again. Where they been in netburst times, huh?

+2 TBH

stock clock and 3GHz if anyone feels like being nice so we can see the scaling :)

Cheers!

Quote:

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3Dmark06 scores of Phenom X4 on AMD 770 vs QX9650 (underclk 2GHz) on X38
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
30-10-2007

Performance of Quad Core Phenom X4 2GHz on AMD 770 chipset vs QX9650 running on X38 using 8800GTX

SUPER PI 1M = 40s

Using 8800GTX external vga card,
3Dmark06 = 98xx (Phenom X4 runs at 2GHz)
3Dmark06 = 107xx (QX9650 underclk to 2GHz)

---

http://my.ocworkbench.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=68503

Hmm..., those super pi scores in the first post are identical to my to my old NF4/Opteron 146/1gb BH-5 rig running 3GHz DDR500 2-2-2-5 1t.
I know the AMD Tri/Quads scale better with more cores but man the performance just doesn't seem to have improved much if at all.
I've been pretty optimistic(so far) about what AMD was bringing to the table with K10 but I can't see them making any money on these chips in retail. :shrug:

I really don't care much anymore. I keep hearing "yeah wait for B2 it'll be much better" or "just wait until this" or whatever - and nothing happens. Doesn't matter much to me since I can't buy one anyway! When I can I will probably still get one since intel won't get my money and it will be better than my opteron (if for no other reason it has more cores! Better for crunching).

Now if there is some sort of magical stuff coming from AMD then by all means bring it on but I don't have my hopes up.

amd 770?
is that a value chipset or what?

Any result of max oc yet? if it oc to 3GHz easily then I hope it won't be stuck at 3.2GHz or such, otherwise it will be hard to compete with penryn stable @ 4G

All I see nowadays is people linking super pi to how good a cpu is, fact is unless you are seriously sad you won't be playing pi every night for 4 to 6 hrs now will you ;)

AMD are bringing "a platform" not just a cpu that does pi in 8 secs which in reality means very little. if you stand back and see the bigger picture here you will see AMD have changed strategy for a while and really are not that bothered about super pi any more...its just you guys here on XS that are!

Im looking forward to crossfire X on 790 with a Phenom with a chipset that runs really cool and does not even need a heatsink in most cases and hopfully never running superpi on the machine at all :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Face;

http://my.ocworkbench.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=68503

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That article needed to just look at the frame rates on the actual game benches and not just the final score which is more CPU score dependent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

All I see nowadays is people linking super pi to how good a cpu is, fact is unless you are seriously sad you won't be playing pi every night for 4 to 6 hrs now will you ;)

AMD are bringing "a platform" not just a cpu that does pi in 8 secs which in reality means very little. if you stand back and see the bigger picture here you will see AMD have changed strategy for a while and really are not that bothered about super pi any more...its just you guys here on XS that are!

Im looking forward to crossfire X on 790 with a Phenom with a chipset that runs really cool and does not even need a heatsink in most cases and hopfully never running superpi on the machine at all :)

---

Excelent post, i agree completly.
I dont mind if the performance of phenom be a bit lower than new penryns, just want cheap CPU's with great Performance/ cost and Performance/Watt.
Pi means nothing, i want 3D06 Numbers :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Morais

Excelent post, i agree completly.
I dont mind if the performance of phenom be a bit lower than new penryns, just want cheap CPU's with great Performance/ cost and Performance/Watt.
Pi means nothing, i want 3D06 Numbers :cool:

---

performance/watt sure goes to penryn. Just look what the QX9650 consumes in regards to the QX6850 on the same system. A quad 9650 consumes hardly more than a 6400+....

price/performance, this needs to be determined, but im sure amd will win this one. (for quads)

Isnt that Phenom overclocked? If CPU-Z reads the voltage right, I would say it is. Seems like 1.5V to me.

But nontheless, SuperPi results don't mean much. As Kunaak said, game benches would be nice. Cinebench R10 is not that bad either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fr3ak

Isnt that Phenom overclocked? If CPU-Z reads the voltage right, I would say it is. Seems like 1.5V to me.

But nontheless, SuperPi results don't mean much. As Kunaak said, game benches would be nice. Cinebench R10 is not that bad either.

---

I've heard two things about the voltage. One is that is stock (which I doubt!). Another is CPU-Z isn't reporting correctly (which it doesn't even report mine accurately either, it is off by .12 to .04 and bounces around for example). Which it is, I don't know.

OK..........
Super-Pi means nothing.........
3DMark2001 means nothing........
3DMark2003 means nothing........
3DMark2005 means nothing........
3DMark2006 means nothing........
etc means nothing........

SO what do we have here?.....A BRAND NEW CPU for Internet downloads?.....Go and buy a Celeron with 25 Euros to do your job....... :yepp:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hipro5

OK..........
Super-Pi means nothing.........
3DMark2001 means nothing........
3DMark2003 means nothing........
3DMark2005 means nothing........
3DMark2006 means nothing........
etc means nothing........

SO what do we have here?.....A BRAND NEW CPU for Internet downloads?.....Go and buy a Celeron with 25 Euros to do your job....... :yepp:

---

No celeron, rather a sempron - both suck but semprons suck less :p:

celeron 4xx series sucks?
i dont think so my friend. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hipro5

OK..........
Super-Pi means nothing.........
3DMark2001 means nothing........
3DMark2003 means nothing........
3DMark2005 means nothing........
3DMark2006 means nothing........
etc means nothing........

SO what do we have here?.....A BRAND NEW CPU for Internet downloads?.....Go and buy a Celeron with 25 Euros to do your job....... :yepp:

---

Superpi means nothing yes :)

A P4 670 woudl trash any FX57 in superpi.
But wich one owns in 3D?

;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Speederlander

They could do ok if they can price them under say under $150.

---

No way they would pice it that low, but if they do sell a 2+ghz quad for $150 I think I'll upgrade early.

i didnt know spi means nothing... especiel here on XTREMEsystems :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

All I see nowadays is people linking super pi to how good a cpu is, fact is unless you are seriously sad you won't be playing pi every night for 4 to 6 hrs now will you ;)

AMD are bringing "a platform" not just a cpu that does pi in 8 secs which in reality means very little. if you stand back and see the bigger picture here you will see AMD have changed strategy for a while and really are not that bothered about super pi any more...its just you guys here on XS that are!

Im looking forward to crossfire X on 790 with a Phenom with a chipset that runs really cool and does not even need a heatsink in most cases and hopfully never running superpi on the machine at all :)

---

Well i saw that big picture same time ago when a few months back AMD CEO said in an interview that AMD is not a CPU company, they are changing for a plataform of computer solutions, not just making CPUs.

The acquisition of ATI was a milestone to push them to this gold, but there are things that AMD need to polish and there PR are very poor. It feels strange to consumers living all this hype about Intel and even nVidia and no words from AMD, what they show or say is like talk about a «glass half/full of water».

So the disappointment around AMD now is very understandable.

Regards

that sounds about right...
my last pi bench on my x2 6000 daily use settings:

XP
X2 6000 3225Mhz (215x15) | 4x1gb 6400 gskill 5-5-5-15 = 806Mhz -- 26.625s

VISTA 64
X2 6000 3013mhz (200x15) | 4x1gb PC6400 Gskill 5-5-5-15 = 756mhz -- 28.782s

as already stated, super PI is not AMD's thang... but the numbers sound on par with what I got on my x2 6000 box with standard spd's...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

i didnt know spi means nothing... especiel here on XTREMEsystems :rolleyes:

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you are trying to get it out of the context.

In means nothing when determine the overall speed of a cpu.

Nobody said it doesn't mean nothing on xs. ;)

Questions here...

Is SuperPI optimized for SSE2, SSE3?

Is the L3 cache on the Phenom running at core speed or some north bridge divider like the Barcelona?

So for the record, what benchmarks actually qualify as 'useful' and 'real world'?

Specfp_rate? ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

All I see nowadays is people linking super pi to how good a cpu is, fact is unless you are seriously sad you won't be playing pi every night for 4 to 6 hrs now will you ;)

AMD are bringing "a platform" not just a cpu that does pi in 8 secs which in reality means very little. if you stand back and see the bigger picture here you will see AMD have changed strategy for a while and really are not that bothered about super pi any more...its just you guys here on XS that are!

Im looking forward to crossfire X on 790 with a Phenom with a chipset that runs really cool and does not even need a heatsink in most cases and hopfully never running superpi on the machine at all :)

---

[Van diesel]I live my life 8 seconds at a time [/Van Diesel]

Thing is 1M superpi is now at the stage that it's not really proving very much, and is in general residing as purely a benchmark with an ever waning real world reference. I think we're gonna see a divide on opinions here, those that want a system for "real world applications" likes games and those who are in it for the benchmarks.

All in all we are being spoiled for choice if you ask me

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

celeron 4xx series sucks?
i dont think so my friend. :D

---

They OC well, so what? A celeron is still a celeron - crap ;)

The cache is lacking on them. And before you say "yeah well the celeron 4xx has the same L2 as many K8 chips" remember that AMD's architecture does not rely on cache much at all, just doesn't need it near as much. Once you have 512K then any more the performance gains are minimal for most applications. This has been proven when comparing two K8's with the same operating frequency but one had 1MB L2. Intel on the other hand is much more cache dependent so it has a greater performance hit with a lack of cache. I'm no CPU architecture guru - far from it - but I'm thinking part of the reason is due to the lack of an IMC and direct connection to the memory like K8/K10.

For the same price as a Celeron 440 I can get a Brisbane X2 4000+ 2.1GHz. Plus the boards are cheaper for a decent one. Not a hard choice here.

Thing about Super-Pi is that some guys have said on the upcoming of the Barchie, that stepping B1 or BA did 14sec at 3GHz.......THAT'S why so many ppl are confused.....They are trying to find out from WHERE this 14sec came out and from WHERE this 30k of 3DMark2006 came out..... ;)

Propably AMD in their labs, had a Yorkfield and after some changings here and there, they though that they were benching with a Barchie or a Phenom and got that numbers.... :D :p:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vapor

Great first post. Enjoy a great first ban. Trolling, baiting, and forum-flaming is unacceptable on XS. XS is a place for Xtreme enthusiasts, not trolls.

---

PWN Deluxe :up: :clap:


Anyways does SOLDNER-MOFO have anything to say about these SPI scores? did he not see some crazy score form a friend of his?

maybe it's time for amd to take the handchief on the phenom logo to dry their tears :rofl:

No......It's time to be honest and come out and say: "We have this, we sell it that much and that's it"......Don't put me snakes that will unleach their power and bite you.....Don't put me dogs/cats/etc annimals........Put me a picture of the Phenom and say: "That's it guys....if you want it, get it"......:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [XC] riptide

PWN Deluxe :up: :clap:


Anyways does SOLDNER-MOFO have anything to say about these SPI scores? did he not see some crazy score form a friend of his?

---

Someone banned him, for what reason I have no idea... Maybe because he had something good to say about AMD? :shrug: (I KID! :p:) I don't know if it is a temp vacation or permanent, heck I don't even know what happened, just logged on one evening and saw "banned" under his username :shrug: So I don't think we'll be hearing from him for awhile at least.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SparkyJJO

For the same price as a Celeron 440 I can get a Brisbane X2 4000+ 2.1GHz. Plus the boards are cheaper for a decent one. Not a hard choice here.

---

hmm not where i live. :p:

cheapest X2 4000+ 50€
cheapest cleron 27€.... and for 31€ i get a board...

on the other hand a Pentium E costs also around 51€.

you should have compared it to a sempron, the cheapest i can buy costs 24€.

anyways this goes far to offtopic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

hmm not where i live. :p:

cheapest X2 4000+ 50€
cheapest cleron 27€.... and for 31€ i get a board...

on the other hand a Pentium E costs also around 51€.

you should have compared it to a sempron, the cheapest i can buy costs 24€.

anyways this goes far to offtopic.

---

well if you go by cheapest celeron those are definitely less than the X2 4000+ but it also isn't the 4xx series either that you mentioned, so....

But yes, definitely off topic now...... :yawn:

OK I need to get my homework done but I'm keep getting distracted... somebody temp ban me until 4 PM EDT today so I can get it done... :lol2:

I already expect on the stats that Phenom BA/B2 will lose over Penryn in;
Multimedia
Overclocking
Super Pi (not that I give a damn below 32M although a good extra addition like gold laces on my track shoes :D)

At same MHz.

The only thing that matters to me is real world daily applications which MOST desktop users run at one time or another since that is exactly my interest. Videoing, 3Dmodelling, Imaging, Gaming, Compression, Decompression, Encryption, Decryption, PCMark 04/05, Cache2Cache, Science apps, SYSMark and EVEREST Ultimate benchmark suite as an addition. Sandra, MemTach, CPUMark, CrystalMark, ScienceMark, RealStorm2006, Cinebench9, Cinebench10, AquaMark, 3DMark 01SE/03/05/06, POVRAY, Vecmat, wPrime, CPU-Z latency, Prime95 will also be very helpful for additional info. Also to see power draw at 2.5GHz and 3GHz, volts needed, temps, speed scaling, headroom, coldbug and retail price.

With any new product you expect improvements. Core 2 over P4 was incredible. People are now stuck in a trance expecting the same each time which is never true but for luck. Penryn is just gaming/multimedia optimized die shrink Core 2 so improved. Pentium 4 631 takes 6.15GHz to do 21 second 1M. Q6600 2.4GHz stock everything with stock DDR2-800 does 21 second 1M. A huge change. To beat that by AMD would be a huge improvement (in what?) like Core over P4 but it means toot to me if done or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vapor

Great first post. Enjoy a great first ban. Trolling, baiting, and forum-flaming is unacceptable on XS. XS is a place for Xtreme enthusiasts, not trolls.

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I agree.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BeardyMan

Superpi means nothing yes :)

A P4 670 woudl trash any FX57 in superpi.
But wich one owns in 3D?

;)

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I guess.... P4 ;)


3DM03 + poor vga ;)

C2D E6300 @2.8GHz, 2 cores, 1.3vcore AC
GT1 - Wings of Fury 195.3 fps
GT2 - Battle of Proxycon 29.1 fps
GT3 - Troll's Lair 27.6 fps
GT4 - Mother Nature 40.8 fps

P4 631 @4.8GHz, HT, 1.3vcore AC
GT1 - Wings of Fury 190.1 fps
GT2 - Battle of Proxycon 29.2 fps
GT3 - Troll's Lair 27.6 fps
GT4 - Mother Nature 41.0 fps

Same score with aircooled K8 is IMPOSSIBLE :D

hipro,
I know you are an xip and all, no dissrespect intended, but you seem to be the ONLY xip on xs who is so in love with Intel. Thier may be others but they keep thier bias to themselves. Why get involved with all the petty bickering?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaSell

I guess.... P4 ;)


3DM03 + poor vga ;)

C2D E6300 @2.8GHz, 2 cores, 1.3vcore AC
GT1 - Wings of Fury 195.3 fps
GT2 - Battle of Proxycon 29.1 fps
GT3 - Troll's Lair 27.6 fps
GT4 - Mother Nature 40.8 fps

P4 631 @4.8GHz, HT, 1.3vcore AC
GT1 - Wings of Fury 190.1 fps
GT2 - Battle of Proxycon 29.2 fps
GT3 - Troll's Lair 27.6 fps
GT4 - Mother Nature 41.0 fps

Same score with aircooled K8 is IMPOSSIBLE :D

---

Aircooled K8's are running at 3.4-3.5ghz now :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hipro5

OK..........
Super-Pi means nothing.........
3DMark2001 means nothing........
3DMark2003 means nothing........
3DMark2005 means nothing........
3DMark2006 means nothing........
etc means nothing........

SO what do we have here?.....A BRAND NEW CPU for Internet downloads?.....Go and buy a Celeron with 25 Euros to do your job....... :yepp:

---

totally agree with you hipro.

For me it's simple... just post a 3dmark2001 with same gfx and OS.
That should say all to me...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hipro5

OK..........
Super-Pi means nothing......... to me
3DMark2001 means nothing........ to me
3DMark2003 means nothing........to me
3DMark2005 means nothing........to me
3DMark2006 means nothing........to me
etc means nothing........

SO what do we have here?.....A BRAND NEW CPU for Internet downloads?.....Go and buy a Celeron with 25 Euros to do your job....... [/:yepp:

---

Fixed. But to be fair, whether the benchmark sucks or not, it does give us some kind of standarized indication to talk numbers, and in the end, that is what drives this industry, not some kind of hocus pocus methodology that says this product is better without fact. If there is a benchmark, a company will try to get an advantage in it, or based on its compiler or architecture, will be optimized for it. With the case of SuperPi, everyone knows Intel chips does much better than their AMD counterparts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BeardyMan

Aircooled K8's are running at 3.4-3.5ghz now :D

---

Yes... now

But we talking about 2yo stuff :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BeardyMan

Superpi means nothing yes :)

A P4 670 woudl trash any FX57 in superpi.
But wich one owns in 3D?

;)

---

Actually, I recall a certain Pentium-M owning both in Super Pi, and also being pretty good for games (if not as good for encoding).

More to do with being able to fit everything into its very fast cache, though.

Edit: so, to beat Intel at Pi, AMD would probably need to cut their cache latency in half and then some. But then again, AMD isn't so dependent on cache because they have pretty good latency to the RAM.

Wow... that 32m is slow ?! I'm sure i get sub 25min with k8 @ 3ghz and rams 250/2-2-2 :shrug:

I know that phenom has 512k versus 1mb of the a64 3700 but i was pretty darn sure that it would keep up cpc =/

yes, pi ain't everything but it's a good measurement of raw cpu/ram/mobo combo speed , imo .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

price/performance, this needs to be determined, but im sure amd will win this one at stock. (for quads)

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fixed

Tony, how do you really feel about AMD?

Heh, I should start a new super pi database.

I only care to see real time gaming application performance numbers.

Dissapointing results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vapor

Great first post. Enjoy a great first ban. Trolling, baiting, and forum-flaming is unacceptable on XS. XS is a place for Xtreme enthusiasts, not trolls.

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Whammy! :hammer:


Really hoping that vcore isn't correct on CPU-Z. That 32M time really blows though, I'm pretty certain if I had a calculator and a sheet of paper I could calculate it faster. Wonder if it'll be possible to break 3.4GHz with Phenom and ~1.65vcore and some a non-coldbug tuned singlestage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaSell

Yes... now

But we talking about 2yo stuff :D

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Good Sandiego chip on air+BH5@DDR570+ would do the trick.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iddqd

Actually, I recall a certain Pentium-M owning both in Super Pi, and also being pretty good for games (if not as good for encoding).

More to do with being able to fit everything into its very fast cache, though.

Edit: so, to beat Intel at Pi, AMD would probably need to cut their cache latency in half and then some. But then again, AMD isn't so dependent on cache because they have pretty good latency to the RAM.

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isn't so depended?
add 4MB l2 cache to an FX57 and let it run at 4ghz see the difference in time ;)

nobody notice that K10 only has 512KB L2 cache,while 6400+/6000+ and opterons have 1MB L2 cache per core?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoThr3k

nobody notice that K10 only has 512KB L2 cache +2MB L3 unified share cache,while 6400+/6000+ and opterons have 1MB L2 cache per core?

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Isn't this L3 cache supposed to provide better performance?
:shrug:

I just realized yesterday that the top frequency of Intel cpus is the same since c2d's launch, one year and...err 4 months ago? Ever happened in the past cpu history? I guess no...
No doubt Intel could have risen it but no competition=no party so they just focused on kents first and on penryn lately.
I mean, and I fear, AMD can't just win this and I see only 2 scenarios:
1) Phenom is great ->
Intel releases higher clock cpus, lowers current cpus' prices and, once more, AMD is just up for low-mid target competition (and only if they can price a new architecture cpu low)
2) Phenom is just a bit faster then K8 (which atm I fear is the truth) ->
Intel goes ahead with its penryn roadmap and the gap remains the same

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tuvok-LuR-

I just realized yesterday that the top frequency of Intel cpus is the same since c2d's launch, one year and...err 4 months ago? Ever happened in the past cpu history? I guess no...
No doubt Intel could have risen it but no competition=no party so they just focused on kents first and on penryn lately.
I mean, and I fear, AMD can't just win this and I see only 2 scenarios:
1) Phenom is great ->
Intel releases higher clock cpus, lowers current cpus' prices and, once more, AMD is just up for low-mid target competition (and only if they can price a new architecture cpu low)
2) Phenom is just a bit faster then K8 (which atm I fear is the truth) ->
Intel goes ahead with its penryn roadmap and the gap remains the same

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Yep, the 3Ghz new extreme CPU using 65-75W also perfectly shows it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shintai

Yep, the 3Ghz new extreme CPU using 65-75W also perfectly shows it.

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Yea, and 165-175w motherboard sums it up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kasparz

Yea, and 165-175w motherboard sums it up.

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Eh?

I dont even think the 4x4 spaceheater was close to that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shintai

Eh?

I dont even think the 4x4 spaceheater was close to that.

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Perfect for Danish winters! :ROTF:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan

Perfect for Danish winters! :ROTF:

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Nah, central heating costs like 1/6th of electric heat ;)

lol why everyone says intel chipsets are space heaters... the real spaceheaters are NV chipsets....

I totally support Hipro5 on this. Anyone who doesn't think CPU SP1 scores matter does not belong on this forum. Heck, Fugger run SP1 twice in Cali and Asia to demonstrate to the WORLD the power of Intel's nextgen CPUs. I'm pretty sure if barc./phenom was running superpi 1m at 7.5s flat at 2.6ghz everyone will be talking about the end of Intel. Heck, if AMD engineers could pull off the feat, they would. So let's stop acting like children and call a spade a spade.

No need to muddy the waters. As much as it is important for our sakes for AMD to stay strong in the game, I have come to appreciate the technological leap from p4 to core even more. It simply means Intel did its homework. AMD has to do the same.

By the way, what about this for real world: Everytime the average joe on AMD platform runs SP1 32m, they lose about 7 minutes to their neighbor with a core 2 system. If they do this a number of times a day, just imagine the time wasted. This is why the wisest guys in this forum switch with performance.

Finally, manufacturers these days are throwing a lot of dust around less than shiny products (this is not directed at AMD per se). Unfortunately, fanboys pick it up from there and become sore when reality strikes. Please let us all learn to take these things with a pinch of salt. Cheers!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FUGGER;

Tony, how do you really feel about AMD?

Heh, I should start a new super pi database.

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charles i will tell you what i think feel about AMD.

I see them moving away from needing to prove they are the fastest, we have already seen tri fire on 790 with an aircooled CPU running 3d06 scoring with some god awful high score http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquir...30000-3dmark06
which we all know has been confirmed to be true.

So an aircooled system running 3ghz beats the near 30k run I read about this week with a yorkie running on LN2, I know what i find easier to do even though im benching with 80L of LN2 and a yorkie in 14hrs to see just how far the boards will push this CPU...still for me air cooling is way easier then LN2 anyday ;). Now i know when crossfireX meets q9650 the scores will probably go ballistic but for now that kinda impressed me some what.

Next up, super pi...i asked you before for the source code so that i can have it ported to GPU, I really think once AMD port GPU to CPU we will see some sick fast scores that just make these CPU scores seem real slow. I remember one guy telling me a 2900XT has the power to run 32m pi in under 1minute, you know i would dearly love to see if that is true.

So you asked how i feel about AMD, I feel they are moving to a new arena, the issue is none of us really know what they are upto as none of us are privy to any real info as AMD are the kings of being tight lipped...so we just specualte and most of the time talk rubbish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zucker2k

By the way, what about this for real world: Everytime the average joe on AMD platform runs SP1 32m, they lose about 7 minutes to their neighbor with a core 2 system. If they do this a number of times a day, just imagine the time wasted. This is why the wisest guys in this forum switch with performance.

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Oh such a great reason... :rolleyes: Like someone else said (I forget who) if running superpi all day is what you do then fine, go intel. But I know that I'm not the only one doesn't spent all day running superpi. Shoot, I don't really have much of a life and I don't sit here running pi all day. How many others then who actually have a life are going to do it all day? Seriously?

And according to your definition then, I'm not one of the wisest. Fine. I can live with that, I don't really care. But there are those who agree with me that one reason why they WON'T switch is because of intel's business practices which btw they have lawsuits against them for. And don't say "what, the tactic of having a better CPU?" because I'm not referring to that. I'm referring to their more illegal actions.

OK, I'm done. Flame me all you like, call me stupid, a moron, whatever (it wouldn't be the first, I've been called that and worse by intel fanboys for not buying a core 2), I'm not changing my mind.

*EDIT*
Sorry if I come across as flaming, I'm having a rough day (if you couldn't tell). I'm a bit emotionally unstable and ticked off right now. Can't wait for work to end so I can go to bed and hope tomorrow is brighter... :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SparkyJJO

Oh such a great reason... :rolleyes: Like someone else said (I forget who) if running superpi all day is what you do then fine, go intel. But I know that I'm not the only one doesn't spent all day running superpi. Shoot, I don't really have much of a life and I don't sit here running pi all day. How many others then who actually have a life are going to do it all day? Seriously?

And according to your definition then, I'm not one of the wisest. Fine. I can live with that, I don't really care. But there are those who agree with me that one reason why they WON'T switch is because of intel's business practices which btw they have lawsuits against them for. And don't say "what, the tactic of having a better CPU?" because I'm not referring to that. I'm referring to their more illegal actions.

OK, I'm done. Flame me all you like, call me stupid, a moron, whatever (it wouldn't be the first, I've been called that and worse by intel fanboys for not buying a core 2), I'm not changing my mind.

*EDIT*
Sorry if I come across as flaming, I'm having a rough day (if you couldn't tell). I'm a bit emotionally unstable and ticked off right now. Can't wait for work to end so I can go to bed and hope tomorrow is brighter... :(

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Nothing wrong with supporting, or not, a company based on your principles. Afterall, it's your money! :D

poor AMD, dont dieee!!!!!!!! we need competition!!!!!!!! we dont need nvidia and intel to monopolize!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this sucks, i was hoping for alot better from AMD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

charles i will tell you what i think feel about AMD.

I see them moving away from needing to prove they are the fastest, we have already seen tri fire on 790 with an aircooled CPU running 3d06 scoring with some god awful high score http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquir...30000-3dmark06
which we all know has been confirmed to be true.

---

i may have missed where this was confirmed to be true.

could you please post a link to the k10 trifire scores?

FWIW, 27.5 seconds for 1M at 3Ghz kind sucks. At 2.9Ghz I was able to get my Opteron 146 down to 26.4 or 26.7 seconds (dont have the SS i front of me).

Granted I had VX memory at something like 270Mhz 2-2-2-5 (no it was not stable), but still.. The Phenom should be able to shave atleast a few seconds off its time

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rozzyroz;

i may have missed where this was confirmed to be true.

could you please post a link to the k10 trifire scores?

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I can't comment who confirmed it to be true, if Charles chooses to its upto him

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

I can't comment who confirmed it to be true, if Charles chooses to its upto him

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If Tony says it has been confirmed by other than inq's source ,i believe him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FUGGER

Tony, how do you really feel about AMD?

Heh, I should start a new super pi database.

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You know when you allow options to "subscribe to thread" the unedited post always gets delivered in mail. ;)

Maybe a change would be better to that procedure, eh Charles?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tony

charles i will tell you what i think feel about AMD.

I see them moving away from needing to prove they are the fastest, we have already seen tri fire on 790 with an aircooled CPU running 3d06 scoring with some god awful high score http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquir...30000-3dmark06
which we all know has been confirmed to be true.

So an aircooled system running 3ghz beats the near 30k run I read about this week with a yorkie running on LN2, I know what i find easier to do even though im benching with 80L of LN2 and a yorkie in 14hrs to see just how far the boards will push this CPU...still for me air cooling is way easier then LN2 anyday ;). Now i know when crossfireX meets q9650 the scores will probably go ballistic but for now that kinda impressed me some what.

Next up, super pi...i asked you before for the source code so that i can have it ported to GPU, I really think once AMD port GPU to CPU we will see some sick fast scores that just make these CPU scores seem real slow. I remember one guy telling me a 2900XT has the power to run 32m pi in under 1minute, you know i would dearly love to see if that is true.

So you asked how i feel about AMD, I feel they are moving to a new arena, the issue is none of us really know what they are upto as none of us are privy to any real info as AMD are the kings of being tight lipped...so we just specualte and most of the time talk rubbish.

---

Right a new arena, the multimedia Pc Htpc arena, gona be a lot of $ in that:clap:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by informal

If Tony says it has been confirmed by other than inq's source ,i believe him.

---

i wasnt doubting him, this was just the first that i heard there may be some truth to the inq article.

i sort of wrote it off as being hype after benchmarks from barcelona surfaced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tony

charles i will tell you what i think feel about AMD.

I see them moving away from needing to prove they are the fastest, we have already seen tri fire on 790 with an aircooled CPU running 3d06 scoring with some god awful high score http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquir...30000-3dmark06
which we all know has been confirmed to be true.

So an aircooled system running 3ghz beats the near 30k run I read about this week with a yorkie running on LN2, I know what i find easier to do even though im benching with 80L of LN2 and a yorkie in 14hrs to see just how far the boards will push this CPU...still for me air cooling is way easier then LN2 anyday ;). Now i know when crossfireX meets q9650 the scores will probably go ballistic but for now that kinda impressed me some what.

Next up, super pi...i asked you before for the source code so that i can have it ported to GPU, I really think once AMD port GPU to CPU we will see some sick fast scores that just make these CPU scores seem real slow. I remember one guy telling me a 2900XT has the power to run 32m pi in under 1minute, you know i would dearly love to see if that is true.

So you asked how i feel about AMD, I feel they are moving to a new arena, the issue is none of us really know what they are upto as none of us are privy to any real info as AMD are the kings of being tight lipped...so we just specualte and most of the time talk rubbish.

---

Thanks for the educated post Tony :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

FWIW, 27.5 seconds for 1M at 3Ghz kind sucks. At 2.9Ghz I was able to get my Opteron 146 down to 26.4 or 26.7 seconds (dont have the SS i front of me).

Granted I had VX memory at something like 270Mhz 2-2-2-5 (no it was not stable), but still.. The Phenom should be able to shave atleast a few seconds off its time

---

I would like to see that claim ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tony

charles i will tell you what i think feel about AMD.

I see them moving away from needing to prove they are the fastest, we have already seen tri fire on 790 with an aircooled CPU running 3d06 scoring with some god awful high score http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquir...30000-3dmark06
which we all know has been confirmed to be true.

So an aircooled system running 3ghz beats the near 30k run I read about this week with a yorkie running on LN2, I know what i find easier to do even though im benching with 80L of LN2 and a yorkie in 14hrs to see just how far the boards will push this CPU...still for me air cooling is way easier then LN2 anyday ;). Now i know when crossfireX meets q9650 the scores will probably go ballistic but for now that kinda impressed me some what.

Next up, super pi...i asked you before for the source code so that i can have it ported to GPU, I really think once AMD port GPU to CPU we will see some sick fast scores that just make these CPU scores seem real slow. I remember one guy telling me a 2900XT has the power to run 32m pi in under 1minute, you know i would dearly love to see if that is true.

So you asked how i feel about AMD, I feel they are moving to a new arena, the issue is none of us really know what they are upto as none of us are privy to any real info as AMD are the kings of being tight lipped...so we just specualte and most of the time talk rubbish.

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finally someone with real insight in to industry to make relevant comment on this forum that fell in a real crisis of over hype!