My Surprising Flow Rate Results

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06-04-2007, 04:54 PM
Snyxxx

3 Attachment(s)

My Surprising Flow Rate Results

At least to me they were.

It all started when I finally got around to add my bigNG/Sensorbus to my system listed in my signature. When I attached the DDC's RPM cable to the flow meter port of the Sensorbus, it showed much different flow rates depending upon the sample rate which made no sense.

This is better described in this thread:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=145816

I took Virtualrain's advice and performed a flow test on my own to see the real answer.

Here is my crude testing facility.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1&d=1181004136

For this rig:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1&d=1181004182

I watched the time on my watch for 2, 4, 6 and 8 liters to pass. I did this for five attempts and the results were very close each time.

Result was 6.5 liters/min. I adjusted the impulse rate within the bigNG software to show this flow rate.

Out of curiosity, I ran the same test with the pump only.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1&d=1181004447

Results showed 12 liters/minute. This is about on par from what I see on the web. Just the Storm and EK 8800 FC Block eat up almost half the flow rate. Also, I am using 3/8 tubing as well and do not consider the PA120.2 a big pressure drop. However, I am pleased that there is still this much flow after with these two blocks. My D5 certainly did not perform this well.

More results continued on next post since I do not know how to post more than five pictures in a single post.
06-04-2007, 05:10 PM
sick_g4m3r

great tests! I love seeing stuff like this. those numbers are great two, and the cut is expected from the storm.
06-04-2007, 05:13 PM
virtualrain

Sounds about right to me.

I did a similar test on a DDC pump when I first got mine. It flowed 12.5lpm without anything else. If you look on this blog article you will see what the impact on flow was with some other blocks that I tried the "bucket test" on... (near the bottom of the page)... http://virtualrain.blogspot.com/2006...ddc-ultra.html
06-04-2007, 05:17 PM
Snyxxx

5 Attachment(s)

My attempt at overclocking quickly showed me that the NB was way too hot. It was burn your fingers hot. I had always heard about this on the 6XX series motherboards, but I now know it is true. I had two MCW30's in my closet and knew that I would probably need something for the MOSFETS once I removed the NB/SB heatpipe assemblies.

Therefore, I bought two of the EK MOSFETs blocks. I was going to first put just the MCW30s on the NB and SB, but once I went through the hassle to completely remove the motherboard, I went ahead and added the MOSFET blocks.

MCW30s- For my motherboard, I went with the new hardmount option. Great idea and worked good. Only problem, as seen in another post, there is one capacitor in the way of each block's mounting hardware. Swiftech did a good job and also has a "raising kit" which I used. This all mounted to the motherboard very easily.

EK MOSFET Blocks - This was a difficult mount. I could quickly see that the mounting produced a cantilever moment that made the motherboard bend between the two screws. The MOSFETs in the middle of the block made no contact. The thick thermal pads made up some of the difference, but I was not thrilled by this. Also, is it that hard to provide pre-cut thermal pads like on the 8800GTX full cover block. Similar to my mounting of the 8800 Block, I really had to just barely tighten the screws to keep a huge bend out of the motherboard. It was till pretty bent, but not sure what else to do. Any looser and the block would shift. I am thinking about adding some nylon washers to the mount to limit the bending the next time I operate.

I had some Primoflex tubing laying around and used it since the tube turns were pretty tight. I did not have much time to work out the most optimal solution for the tubing routing.

I performed the flow test again as above, and I could not believe the results. I was expecting the additional four (4) blocks and tubing to really kill the flow even though they are low pressure drop blocks.

Flow went from 6.5 liters/minute (Storm/8800 FC Block only) to 6.0 liters/minute with everything! I re-ran the test numerous times and alwys got this result.

I already had the parts for a dual loop system purchased, but now I am not sure it is worth it since the flow rate is not that much worse. I also monitored my temperatures to see what happened. Basically in rough terms, my CPU and GPU temps only increased by 1-2C from the additional heat dump from the other chips and reduced flow rate. It is hard to get a consistent temperature from Everest since it fluctuates pretty wild.

That's it. Hope this helps someone. here are some pics of all the tubing mess with this many blocks.
06-04-2007, 05:20 PM
sick_g4m3r

WOW!! Thats xtreme right there!! sick! all those parts and that little flow drop has solidified my stance on getting some MCW30s. Excellent testing!!!
06-04-2007, 05:21 PM
virtualrain

Are you using a backplate with your Storm? If not, then your motherboard would certainly bend under the mounting pressure of that block and I could see how that would keep you from getting a good mount on other nearby blocks.

BTW, exactly what tubing is that you are using? I like it's bend radius and anti-kink characteristics.
06-04-2007, 05:22 PM
Polizei

Nice work... good to know.
06-04-2007, 05:23 PM
sick_g4m3r

its 3/8 tubing virtualtrain, so its less likely to kink than 1/2
06-04-2007, 05:24 PM
dinos22

DAMN dude

i love your tubing bends there

what tubing is that :eek:
06-04-2007, 05:26 PM
ranker

This is why I love Xtremesystems. Great to see people taking the initiative to provide us with insightful information like this!
06-04-2007, 05:26 PM
Circaflex

where did you get the blue tubing
06-04-2007, 05:43 PM
sick_g4m3r

it bends like that cause its 3/8
06-04-2007, 05:45 PM
Snyxxx

Thanks for the kind words everyone. The blue tubing is Primoflex. It is a silicone tubing that is softer than Tygon 3603, my normal tubing until now. :p:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=20717

They have other colors like red and clear.
06-04-2007, 06:01 PM
eXceeded

:@ I just bought 40ft of Tygon!!!! :banana::banana::banana::banana: sake...
06-04-2007, 06:11 PM
dinos22

this tubing is cheap as well and it doesn't kinc easily

wow not bad (coloured too haha)
06-04-2007, 06:29 PM
migueld

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snyxxx

Thanks for the kind words everyone. The blue tubing is Primoflex. It is a silicone tubing that is softer than Tygon 3603, my normal tubing until now. :p:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=20717

They have other colors like red and clear.

Silicone tubing is amazingly nice; I had some from a begginer's cooling kit (Kingwin) and it left such a good impression on me that when I switched to larger tubing it seemed hell.

I never got around researching for silicone 3/8 tubing, so I'm glad you brought it up, thanks for the link Snyxxx :)
06-04-2007, 07:17 PM
MaxxxRacer

that is a crazy number of whaterblocks. Looks like it turned out ok though.
06-04-2007, 07:23 PM
Grinch

VERY nice tubing job!
06-04-2007, 07:38 PM
dinos22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

that is a crazy number of whaterblocks. Looks like it turned out ok though.

yeah i reckon

maybe i should ask this guy to give me some tips on tubing in my project atm :D hehehe

http://i4memory.com/showthread.php?t=4090
06-04-2007, 07:54 PM
Snyxxx

Virtualrain,

I did not know there was a back plate for the storm. Good idea. When I mounted the MOSFET blocks, I thought the CPU block might be influencing the bending. I could actually see muli-direction bending in the CPU area. I took the storm off and the MOSFET block alone also induced some bending, but not as bad as with the storm.

What are people using for a back plate?
06-05-2007, 01:40 AM
C'DaleRider

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snyxxx

Virtualrain,

I did not know there was a back plate for the storm. Good idea. When I mounted the MOSFET blocks, I thought the CPU block might be influencing the bending. I could actually see muli-direction bending in the CPU area. I took the storm off and the MOSFET block alone also induced some bending, but not as bad as with the storm.

What are people using for a back plate?

I've seen both of these kits being recommended as backplate kits for the LGA775 motherboards........

Thermalright LGA775 Bolt-Thru-Kit (This is the complete kit....$6.95 + shipping.)

Thermalright LGA775 Bolt-Thru-Kit (Same as above but is just the backplate and screws and springs....no top plate, which is probably what you really need for a cpu block anyway. $3.95 + shipping. Both in stock at Sidewinder Computers.)

Scythe "SCURK1" Universal Retention Kit (In stock at Petra's....$10.99 + shipping.)

Hope this helps and is accurate!

:)
06-05-2007, 06:14 AM
dnottis

I just picked up a couple of these - http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/lgbowiscsp.html

Just wondering if anyone had some pics of a mounted water block with it. What hardware did you use to mount it?
06-05-2007, 11:29 AM
Snyxxx

C'DaleRider & dnottis,

Thanks for the links. I also saw some mention of this Thermaltake H-Plate back plate with some nice praise. Any advantage between the X pattern and the H pattern? The H-plate looks like it may be stiffer.

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c...8_1947_1532648
06-05-2007, 12:00 PM
rogueagent6

Hey Snyxxx, where did you get your bigNG/Sensorbus if you don't mind my asking.
06-05-2007, 02:01 PM
ranker

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogueagent6

Hey Snyxxx, where did you get your bigNG/Sensorbus if you don't mind my asking.

www.performance-pcs.com carries the entire line:

BigNG
MiniNG (pump controller)
Sensorbus (temp/flow monitoring & hard shutdown)
Digital Expansion (digital temperature gauges)
06-05-2007, 02:08 PM
rogueagent6

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranker

www.performance-pcs.com carries the entire line:

BigNG
MiniNG (pump controller)
Sensorbus (temp/flow monitoring & hard shutdown)
Digital Expansion (digital temperature gauges)

Thank you sir, they are sold out but that's what I was looking for. Google wasn't working for me. =P
06-05-2007, 02:46 PM
hecktic

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranker

www.performance-pcs.com carries the entire line:

BigNG
MiniNG (pump controller)
Sensorbus (temp/flow monitoring & hard shutdown)
Digital Expansion (digital temperature gauges)

I was supposed to get that set from another place ordering from performance but they said performance is waiting on their shipment from the manufacturer.... damm.... hey ranker would you be kind enough to link me to each part in the set so I can make sure Im getting the right ones....performance links ofcourse...thanks
06-05-2007, 03:29 PM
Snyxxx

I bought the bigNg and sensorbus directly from mcubed at the following link.

http://www.mcubed-store.com/catalog/...php?cPath=1_35

It was expensive shipping, but Performance PC was not carrying a lot of this stuff back when I purchased. Actually, if you register at the mcubed store and then go back in, the prices drop for some reason.:shrug:

The shipping was by air and had tracking.

I just today received the digital sensor expansion set and purchased from performance PC. I think I calculated that if you buy from Performance PC versus Austria (mcubed), it basically is a wash. I would buy from PPC if buying today since they have everything.

If you look at my pictures, you will see a Tee before the reservoir. This has a $15.00 temperature probe that screws in and plugs into the bigNG to measure the water temps. I actually bought two of the temperature probes and left one outside of the case and one in the water loop. I then calibrated the temp probe to the digital sensor (more accurate) and made the same shift to the one in the water to get a more realistic water temp.

Pretty neat stuff to mess around with. This thread started me wanting this.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=114624
06-05-2007, 03:31 PM
ranker

Quote:

Originally Posted by hecktic

I was supposed to get that set from another place ordering from performance but they said performance is waiting on their shipment from the manufacturer.... damm.... hey ranker would you be kind enough to link me to each part in the set so I can make sure Im getting the right ones....performance links ofcourse...thanks

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ool+t+balancer
06-05-2007, 03:33 PM
hecktic

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranker

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ool+t+balancer

TY sir.
06-05-2007, 06:06 PM
rogueagent6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snyxxx

I bought the bigNg and sensorbus directly from mcubed at the following link.

http://www.mcubed-store.com/catalog/...php?cPath=1_35

Pretty neat stuff to mess around with. This thread started me wanting this.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=114624

Thanks Snyxxx! That's the thread I was looking for, I remember going through it awhile back... Guess I should have looked harder.
06-06-2007, 06:50 AM
MnM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snyxxx

I bought the bigNg and sensorbus directly from mcubed at the following link.

http://www.mcubed-store.com/catalog/...php?cPath=1_35

It was expensive shipping, but Performance PC was not carrying a lot of this stuff back when I purchased. Actually, if you register at the mcubed store and then go back in, the prices drop for some reason.:shrug:

The shipping was by air and had tracking.

I just today received the digital sensor expansion set and purchased from performance PC. I think I calculated that if you buy from Performance PC versus Austria (mcubed), it basically is a wash. I would buy from PPC if buying today since they have everything.

If you look at my pictures, you will see a Tee before the reservoir. This has a $15.00 temperature probe that screws in and plugs into the bigNG to measure the water temps.

Can you give us a link to this please? It might be something I am interested in as well.
06-06-2007, 09:55 AM
Snyxxx

Here is the link to the temperature probe.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=20435

I bought the G1/4 Tee from Sharka.
06-20-2007, 04:24 PM
Top Nurse

First of all I wanted to thank Synxxx for the link. I always appreciate people who are interested in what is really going on in their loop to do some simple experimentation. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranker

www.performance-pcs.com carries the entire line:

BigNG
MiniNG (pump controller)
Sensorbus (temp/flow monitoring & hard shutdown)
Digital Expansion (digital temperature gauges)

Dude... and you complain about the Aquaero being expensive? That BigNG thing is a $100 and doesn't even come with a LCD or a way to easily mount in your box due to it's odd shape.
06-20-2007, 07:35 PM
afireinside

I just can't believe adding NB, SB, and two useless mosfet blocks only dropped flow .5LPM. That's nuts. What change did you see in your CPU temps with the added blocks? That's a TON of heat for a pa120.2...
06-20-2007, 09:34 PM
Snyxxx

afireinside,

I could not believe it either, but it is certainly true. Ran the flow test many times and the results were the same.

I was only going to add the NB/SB blocks at first to the GPU and CPU blocks and run the flow test.

However, once I got everything out and undone, I did not want to redo that again for awhile and added the two MOSFET blocks since they must mount from the bottom of the MB. I hate that design.

My temps did not change but a degree or two if I remember correctly. I think it may be in my post somewhere. All four of the blocks added were low restriction type. :shrug: I think the storm and EK FC block grabbed all the flow and everything else just did not matter that much.

Seeing is believing for me though.
06-20-2007, 10:26 PM
p8ntslinger676

good news for us then :D
06-21-2007, 12:09 AM
ranker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

First of all I wanted to thank Synxxx for the link. I always appreciate people who are interested in what is really going on in their loop to do some simple experimentation. :D

Dude... and you complain about the Aquaero being expensive? That BigNG thing is a $100 and doesn't even come with a LCD or a way to easily mount in your box due to it's odd shape.

Seriously stop trying to post on all threads about AC products. We get enough of that crap from you already. It's obvious that you'll dig a thread up just for the sake of pimping AC's name.

Who cares about an LCD in the first place? Most people don't even look at their LCD. I have a Matrix Orbital and dumped it the 1st week. I'm not going to be starring at my LCD. Why? Because I got better :banana::banana::banana::banana: to do. Another reason? mcubed's software and widgets provide me all the info I need on my sidebar without having to glance under my desk.

LCD's great for the bling but it offers little use. Sorta like most AC products.
06-23-2007, 01:27 PM
shiznit93

i wonder what your results would be if you replaced that storm with a fusion...
05-22-2008, 07:32 PM
MikalCarbine

Just curious, are your barbs 3/8" or 1/2"? I know your tubing is 3/8"

Edit: ahhh thread revival
05-22-2008, 08:36 PM
LinusTech

His barbs are 1/2" and his tubing is 3/8". I just did a similar build with the new Primoflex LRT. It's a nightmare to get on, but it'll NEVER leak and the bend radius of the new stuff is even better than the old stuff.
05-23-2008, 04:10 AM
Snyxxx

Correct, 1/2" barbs and no leaks.
05-23-2008, 12:52 PM
MikalCarbine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linus@ncix

His barbs are 1/2" and his tubing is 3/8". I just did a similar build with the new Primoflex LRT. It's a nightmare to get on, but it'll NEVER leak and the bend radius of the new stuff is even better than the old stuff.

I thought 7/16 over 1/2 was a nightmare enough, I have it somewhat mastered now. It is much tougher on plastic barbs than metal ones.

How do you go about putting 3/8" over 1/2"? I'd like to venture down this but I really don't want to go through hell and back in order to do it. Do you boil the tube ends and then slip it on? I was looking at this tubing: http://www.jab-tech.com/Tygon-Silver...7-pr-4103.html

I need the silver for a build I'm making :)
05-23-2008, 05:23 PM
Snyxxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikalCarbine

I thought 7/16 over 1/2 was a nightmare enough, I have it somewhat mastered now. It is much tougher on plastic barbs than metal ones.

How do you go about putting 3/8" over 1/2"? I'd like to venture down this but I really don't want to go through hell and back in order to do it. Do you boil the tube ends and then slip it on? I was looking at this tubing: http://www.jab-tech.com/Tygon-Silver...7-pr-4103.html

I need the silver for a build I'm making :)

Yes, I take a glass of water, put it in the microwave for two minutes just when the boiling bubbles appear. I then dip one end of the hose in it for about 10 seconds and push it onto the barb. I then cut the right length of tubing and then repeat with the other end.