Printable View
I've tried my best to represent this mathematicaly. R^2 = 1 and it matches what I have seen very well so this has got to be pretty damn close to the absolute truth. Should help those than are going to high FSB to match their vMCH for best chance of success.
FSB = 166.67 * vMCH + 170
Funny how the numbers turn out...there's 166.67Mhz in the equation...hmmm.
So, if you want 475Mhz FSB:
475 Mhz = 166.67 * vMCH + 170
vMCH = ~1.83v
-FCG
nice work
Impressive - now I'm beginning to see why the X6800 with unlocked multis may be worth the price with not having to push 400+ FSB.
Any idea how this graph compares if using the Bad Axe?
Kyosen-san had posted his actual results testing fsb and vmch over at OCX using the Asus... seems like a vmch mod will be needed to help those with lower Multis:
Quote:
Kyosen wrote:
Vfsb is fixed at 1.50V
Corsair PC2-5400UL(v1.2) 512MB x2, Vdimm=2.427V
E6700 @ x7 multiplier
Here 'Max FSB' is SuperPI 1M run-complete limit
Vmch : Max FSB
1.56 : 419.4
1.60 : 431.3
1.65 : 446.8
1.70 : 460.5
1.75 : 470.1
1.80 : 474.8
1.85 : 477.8
1.90 : 480.8
1.95 : 482.0
Vfsb mod seems almost no beneficial,
but Vfsb 1.60~1.65 may give +1~2 click on SetFSB...
So did you really try this with your board?
Some very interesting info here, just what I've been hoping to see. :)
The question now is, what is a safe limit for the voltage both for benching and day to day usage?
What is stock and max in bios without mods?
I guess 1.5 is stock
1.65v I believe.
there are 4 data points on the graph, these came either from myself or others with the same board.
Who did 500FSB?
micutzu
Interesting stuff, good to know.
So the max FSB is solely limited by the amount of volts you're willing to push? Does this mean that watercooling the nb might yield higher FSB?
Pretty useful info.
Thanks :)
hmm, might try dry ice for NB
cool just the kinda info. i needed...thanks
i||uSi0n^
I'm limited to 424 max bench with 1.65 vmch in bios :stick:
Wow, that really applies with my Asus Board.
At 430 FSB my board shut down everything.
Hmm, perhaps i have to mod it.
free
Kyosen-san was getting higher with the lower vmch with his watercooled NB.
= but at 426Quote:
Originally Posted by freestylercs
That's on air, right ? Now we need the table with better temps in the chispet :p:
Nice work dude! :toast:
Hopefully newer chipset's OC's higher, i'd like to get my incoming 6700@4,5ghz without vmch mod... For 24/7, for benching i dont mind vmods... :D
this is air cooling with AS5 on the NB, the stupid "cover" removed and some airflow across the heatsink from an internal radiator fan (note: not a fan pointing directly at the heatsink). idle @ 1.8v is ~40C and full load at ~44-45C. Ambient at ~21-22C. Better cooling might certainly skew the graph to the left significantly.
-FCG
At least its feasible to use a better cooling solution on the P5W DH, with its good placement of NB, unlike say, DFI Ultra-D :rolleyes:
Do most aftermarket nb coolers fit the P5W DH?
Im looking into watercooling myself, i think the MCW30 might be a good choice, listed as compatible with P5WD2, should work on the P5W-DH.Quote:
Originally Posted by gocchin
Thanks for the chart Kris.
I've put artic ceramic and I have removed the cover and no gain :(
he is cooled with 80mm fan
I will make vmch mod
I will test with a Vapo PE on the NB in a couple weeks
MCW30 looks good to me also. What would be the best way of cooling the mosfets while watercooling the chipset as the standard cooler will no long fit due to the heatpipe?Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute_0
I am not sure, perhaps VGA ramsinks with an 80 above them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesnel
He did it with two boards?Quote:
Originally Posted by vapb400
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=103626
here's what i did on aw8d http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=104070 similar as asus nb heatpipe and mosfet configurationQuote:
Originally Posted by Kesnel
old motherboard nb heatsinks 45x45 do nice heh
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva2000
hiya eva2000 how was this fixed to the existing heatsink, i have a dfi lan party low profile watercooling block and has intel has those annoying hooks ( i hate them) i was thinking on fixing my low profile dfi lanfreezer waterblock chipset cooler on top of the asus conroe board but i wasn't sure how to hold it on
for hooks it works fine too...here's how it looks on badaxe board
I installed my 2nd Thermaltake Extreme Spirit II chipset cooler, 169g of copper goodness @19dba fan noise :D
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975...ls/thumb_3.jpg http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975...ls/thumb_7.jpg http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975...ls/thumb_9.jpg
Full pics here http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975...heatsink/html/
HTH
i had a polar flo tt chipset block on an 875 board i bought a conversirsion kit for that which had screws that clamped to the hooks, maybe that might be worth considering, but it might be juswt as easy to just but a waterblock made to fit the hooks, i have been a "sli" man but i am thinking of getting the xtx crossfire , whatys you're impressions of the xtx as i know you was a "sli " guy as well i have polarflo tt blocks on the cards but now only have one 7900gtx as i sold one of them, and i know these blocks would go in the crossfire config, i am going for the asus board now but had been holding out for the dfi infinity but the ones i have seen , they have not performed the badaxe seems ok but the bios seems a bit old school to get tyhe most out of it, i have the qpge step 5 6600 same as you i think
Nope, just with the BadAxe. Promise him a huge quantity of beer and maybe he'll do it with another board as well ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by NiCKE^
So then I still wonder who did the 500FSB with P5W DH Deluxe..Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandrus
Thanks for pics eva2000. I think I may look into buying that chipset fan for the DH Deluxe.
How difficult is it to remove the stock heatpipes on the DH?
I can't go more :(
http://membres.lycos.fr/m4inaction/c...pge/12.828.jpg
setting up a new rig with this mobo tonight...
so which of these NB cooling solutions would you (EXTREME guys) suggest using:
1) the stock HS with cover removed + FAN
2) ThermalRight HR-05 Chipset Cooler + "some" fan
3) Swiftech MCX159-CU Chipset Cooler + FAN
here is the FAN id use on the stock or Swifty: 40x50 counter rotating SCREAMER (just 1x)
i already have everything listed above so price aint the question :toast:
Stock with a 60mm Delta should do :)
i recommend #1. a nice 120mm, slow speed fan is enough to provide the air needed to keep the NB cool with up to about 1.85v. just make sure that you also remove the stock NB heatsink, clean the die and the sink bottom thoroughly and then replace after appling AS5 or some other high-performance thermal paste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Camel
nice slow speed 120 ?!?!?!
where am i ? "Nice Stable Quiet PC Forum" ?
:stick:
hehehe
counter rotating heaven:
http://img419.imageshack.us/img419/5...00678vc.th.jpg
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/2131/pict00714jc.jpg
:banana: :banana:
thanks for the input :toast:
.
well, your choice is suppose. a "slow speed" 120mm fan will provide about 3-5x the CFM of that small 10gajillion RPM fan. and it will also be MUCH quieter. extreme doesn't always imply that you must subscribed to rather ignorant performance expectations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Camel
;)
i thought the NB was not that hot. Maybe my Pentium D 920 at 3.8GHz with Bigtyphoon is nothing but it should generate some heat as FSB is 280MHz although for Conroe im expecting 400Mhz. I do have a 1200mm fan above the NB and between the CPU and Graphics card to suck the air out though ...
the little smiley makes me feel much better after being (indirectly) called "ignorant"
sorry, my reputation doesn't precede me here @ XS... i am the "Ghetto Ghod of Over-Kill Cooling"Quote:
Originally Posted by freecableguy
looking @ total fan CFM; yes, i see your point but if you were to measure the CFM that actually travels over the HS's fins... i must disagree and ass-u-me that my screamer will move more air through the HS and thus cool it better.
either way, y'all have answered my question... with a little help, the stock HS will do just fine.
thanks
:D
good work. what kind of cooling is needed for ~2v operation for 24/7 use? ~40 watt air cooled pelt maybe?
Lets do a quick a dirty exploration on this thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by theteamaqua
Assume: 975X MCH produces 13.8W at TDP with 1.5v and 266MHz FSB
Now lets overclock that to 450Mhz FSB and 1.75v
Pf = Po * (Vf/Vo)^2 * (Ff/Fo)
Pf = 13.8W * (1.75v/1.5v)^2 * (450Mhz/266Mhz)
Pf = ~32W
A good estimate of power is now ~32W (TDP).
I can certainly see how good airflow/cooling and high-performance thermal paste quickly becomes a necessity....
-FCG
Edit: inserting KNOWN TDP numbers
Hehe, funny, the analysis feels similar to calculations I'd conduct on Dothan. :p:
Counter-rotating fans provide an enormous amount of static pressure, which is more relevant to our application than CFM (cubic feet per minute, simply a measure of volume over time). Where that volume of air is going is much more important and is something that is ever too frequently ignored.
But if you were to ask me, any sort of air cooling is laaame. :D Here's hoping that my MCW30 fits the mobo well. (Will try this weekend)
Guys, can somebody show how make MCH volt mod on P5W DH? Any pic ?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=103567
There you go big sam.
Many thanks :)Quote:
Originally Posted by NiCKE^
A HA! So that's gotta be why I am unable to get above 450mhz now... NB is running 58*C idle / 60*C load... I haven't touched the NB cooling yet, not even cleaned! I'm having struggles getting above 1.76v on the vmch (pencil mod..) It's gotta be the temps. I was planning on throwing dry ice on the cpu however I quickly realized that it would do absolutey nothing... How do you think the chart will look with dry ice on the NB? 525mhz attainable at below 2v? CPU probably won't need more than water at 4ghz+ (E6400)?
I'm gonna go ahead and start the cleaning and removing those ridiculous plastic caps. I have a 40cm coolermaster NB fan that I can screw onto the NB.
I'll post my results when I'm done. 450mhz @ 1.75v @ 60*c on the NB right now (maxed.)
I disagree with the concept, but, sure, its about right, but I state that as being a coincidence...
I'd like 500*9, uhm, I'd sure like that :D
btw you have separate thermistor installed for NB?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutch
asking, because "mb temp" is measured from somewhere near SB..
Quote:
Originally Posted by caater
Good point, I forgot about that. I think I might swing by radioshack to pick up a new multimeter with a built in thermostat. The NB heatsink is red hot to the touch, about the same temp as the southbridge heatsink.
I'm actually now planning to throw my Swiftech Premium 120 Kit onto my northbridge (i'm using the Corsair Nautilus 500 kit on my cpu and don't have the 1/4" to 3/8" tubing converters.)
This may be dangerous, however I've pulled it off before on a cpu. Combo of AS5 + Superglue. Used to have my Cooler Master Hyper 48 HSF superglued to my Cedarmill 631 for about a month until it fell off (thing weighed about 3 lbs lol.) Was about to hit 3.8ghz on a P5ND2-SLI!
Hopefully it works! Either way it will cool better than the crappy cooler that's on it right now!
not sure about P5W DH but with bad axe it's rumoured the MCH volts also get some of the volts fed over to SB.. if it's the same on P5W DH then logically increasing MCH volts will increase both MCH/NB and SB temps as well ???
Zalman fan bracket over video card also cools SB on my P5W DH keeps it at 30-34C under load... and cools my video card too... Zalman fan bracket FTW ;)
btw, just tested out my p5w.. watercooled nb block.
i used crappy tester, it shows 1.33v when mod is at minimum value and vmch from bios is set to 1.65 :rolleyes:
bios settings: boot at 400fsb, mem 4:3 @ spd, vmch1.65v, vich vfsb auto.
"actual" (crappy tester) volts..
fsb speeds are ones setfsb crashes with (-1mhz from that is always 32M stable)
1.33v - 439 crash
1.4v - 440 crash
1.45v - 441 crash
1.5v - 441 crash
1.55v - 443 crash (actually from this point, pcie video refuses to boot and pci video kicks in, indication of actual vmch maybe 1.9ish?)
1.6v - 442 crash
1.7v - 443 crash
cpu is e6600, tried all multipliers except 9x, also tried 1:1.
perf setting, std, turbo or auto, no diff, hp3 must be disabled, else no boot.
various vich and vsfb settings - no effect.
with default cooler and w/o vmch mod - max spi stable was 434.
sucky board :confused: :cool:
caater try remounting nb waterblock, bad mount can = lower max mem and max fsb clocks as i have experienced
also don't forgot tRD and tRFC from http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=111400 i gained 6-7fsb from messing with those timings
actually i've tried to remount 3 times, all with same results :)
from that -1fsb 32M stability i also concluded that heat isn't the main issue..
also tried to mess with "hidden settings" in memset with no luck.
have to get a "true rms" tester, just to be sure about those volts..
Couple things:Quote:
Originally Posted by caater
What bios version do you have? Make sure you have atleast the 0801 bios... perferably the new 1101 bios. Also, the results you are getting are perfectly normal for the voltages. At 1.75v I can't usually push over 450... Ran superpi once @ 455. I'm a few hours away from doing the vmch mod (have the pencil one but can't get more than a .1v increase) and from watercooling the NB.
Question:
What do you do about the heatpipe? Is it removable?
OMG! I just realized that I can use the hooks that are holding the nb on right now to hold on my waterblock! I hope!
thanks for your input.. i've tried 901 and 903, but settled again for 1101 because there's no difference..Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutch
i still need better dmm because i don't want to feed mch with 3v or smth :)
picture of my nb
Yea I just grabbed a new multimeter the other day, it shows 3 decimal places ;)
Are you sure you did the mod right? The voltages you are getting are really low. My vmch with 1.65v in bios before the pencil mod read 1.643-1.644v. Read just about dead on with other voltages also.
You're WCing looks kick ass! I'm gonna post pics of the whole mod progress and test results when I'm done. Still waiting for my GF to go home for the night so I can use my laptop while modding ;)
Question. Where exactly do I check the VCore on the P5W DH with my multimeter?
Brahmzy check on vr-zone.com. Look for the P5W DH Pencil mod post.
I just checked how hot my NB was with, what once was junk, now is treasure, Antec HD cooler with the two temp readers. with the thermastat on the plastic cover of the northbridge it read 53*C idle!!!!! I don't wanna know how hot the actual chip is.
Thanks man. Maybe that's why they don't let us see the NB temps anywhere, hehe.:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutch
Lol was a disaster's night so far. As I was removing the MB from my case, I was holding it by the voltage regulator HS, the HS popped off (retention clips FAILED!) and the MB crashed from about 1M with FORCE onto the edge of the case. Luckily the backside hit and I grabbed it before any further damage. Inspecting the back of it appeared to be perfectly fine, not even a scratch.
So I clean everything, prepare my Swiftech H20-120 Premium kit and convert the cpu waterblock to a NB waterblock (just removed the attatchment plate) and tried to attach it with the hooks that were on the stock HS. Well it wouldn't even come close to fitting (too high) so I had to mod the hook thing. Bent the living crap out of it so that it somewhat works (yea it's a little leaning to one side, but it'll have to do. Can't be anyworse than the 60*C HS!
Put a fan on the SB, AS5, reattached.
6 Hours (break every 2 hours for about 45 min for butts and play on my only working laptop in my car!) and have got very little done.
Debating whether to go to bed now (5:30 am est) and finish it in the afternoon or stay up and finish.
Still have to teach myself to solder (never really done it, however, really, really know how to do it.) Gonna practice on an old GF3 the exact soldering job thats going to be done on the MB (8 pin IC, solder the same legs 6,3; definately going to use the timming technique.) Only thing I won't do in practice is waste a 10k ohm 15key resistor (nearly identical to the one FCG uses in his guide.) Also picked up the exact same wire as FCG used (30 gauge red wire.)
Also I was just wondering (thinking simple minded for the 2nd time in life) is it possible to just tape or superglue/AS5 the wires to the legs and then to the 10K VR? Yea it may sound stupid, but theoretically speaking, it would work wouldn't it?
Overthinking... just need to shut my head up and do it huh? ;)
Oh yea, has anyone noticed that the heatpipe does ABSOLUTELY nothing? The heatpipe read around 32*c while the plastic cap on the NB was over 55*c... Plastic cap on the SB was over 50*c too... EWWW
Just to let peeps know in case they dont already, a Swiftech MCW20 (intel fitting) fits perfectly on the Northbridge. Have one on mine, works a treat. When my ram comes back from rma I'll be trying the pencil mod as currently I can only do about 435fsb @1.65v
hmm, i just ordered the board, looking forward to getting it, but i don't have enough $$$ for the E6600 yet, so ill be using my P4 640 for the time being.
question though... if you watercool the NB, what do you put on the fets for the cpu? or do you need to cut the heatpipe with a hacksaw and use the stock heatsink?
Thanks :)
with 6400 retail cpu and correct voltage readouts, my numbers go something like that, double did it with both 6x and 7x (vmch - max 1M stable/1st setting that caused immediate setfsb crash).
NB watercooled, properly seated (water ~30-35C)
1.80v 448 / 462
1.85v 461 / 472
1.91v 468 / 473
1.95v 468 / 473
2.01v 469 / 473
2.05v 469 / 473
2.14v 470 / 474
additionally tried a small 40mm TEC for NB..
2.21vmch, coldplate temp 15-17c - 474 ran 1M, 475 locked with setfsb.
oh and another note - the fsb tests with TEC are done with vcore auto instead of 1.5v i used before - gave 1-2fsb.. vcore 1.6v or more reduced max fsb.
so.. i'll bet i could gain 10-20 mhz fsb by changing cpu to e6300.. as i gained 30mhz just with switch from e6600 to 6400.
dothan had vcca mod to get past fsb wall.. dunno what conroe does :)
ES chips also doesn't seem to be (so) limited.
Guys removing heatsink NB and use water block what about heatpipes in the mosfets??
some use custom heatsinks for mosfets (incl me), but tbh they don't get hot at all, the heatpipe is cooling nb, not mosfets..Quote:
Originally Posted by Iannis
Has anyone though about the processors having a FSB wall as well? I have a Retail Week 24 X6800 and lower multi it would come close to FSB I'm able to get with my current E6600 (see sig). I tried everything and the best I could do was about 395FSB. Just something to throw in the mix.
My own testing:
http://www.pctuning.cz/ilustrace3/ob...d/grafvmch.png
First revision of MoBo with VoltMod. (Name of graph is in my language, it is from my review) Last 3 values in graph are maybe wrong, because my best stable FSB is 465MHz.
Huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by nicepun
395x11= 4345. You're saying that that's the best you can do? Seems good to me!
Or are you talking about your 461.8x9 for your E6600?
You're saying that your X6800 also does about max 461 FSB at a x9 multiplier?
Nope, 10x or lower multi for 395FSB. Highest I could get was 370x11 and not stable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkentyne
The E6600 can do 450+FSB @ 8 or 9 multi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkentyne
Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier.
We did 500 FSB with 2.08v on air.
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=126286
http://www.overclocking.es/modules/s....php?itemid=32
Actually the new revisions have no matter what vmch you use!I'm stable at 430@1.65v and not stable 432@1.65v or even 432@1.85v ..wtf?
Guys...sorry for bringing this trhead up again...975x stock voltage is?
Thanx!
Mch 1.55v