To everyone in the WC section, Please read!

Martinm210 that has too be the best post in the whole thread. Myself I can't let any product stay stock, I have to tinker with it till either it works like i think it should or I kill it beyond repair, it's just my nature....................

I still think if a vendor puts out junk, they should be called out on it. Most of the time they know what they are doing when they "slip", they just choose to soak up profits.

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Originally Posted by Spawne32

So he left because people have an attitude when they post? Well i dont know if thats against the rules or not but generally thats the same attitude in any of the forums, people are who they are your not gona be able to change the way people talk because your thin skinned. Ive seen the fanboism but in the liquid cooling section i really dont think its that bad, ive gotten more valuable information out of this sub section then any of the others, people dont get excited and recommend EK blocks because they are fanboys, they recommend them because they are the best, plain and simple. Getting pissy because for the past 6 months every one is recommending EK waterblocks and giving an attitude over the way other companys poorly manufacture their products isnt fanboism, its the truth, plain and simple. You want the cold hard truth about how to build a awesome watercooling system, you come to the XS water cooling forum, you want to post how awesome your brand new 100 dollar koolance kit is, with the rotting compression fittings and the mixed matched metals, and have everyone tell you how uber cool it is, you go the IGN forums where they ban people on the spot for posting sny remarks against their sponsors.

Sorry thats just the way i feel, ive never had anyone in this liquid cooling section have an attitude that was out of line or hurt my feelings.

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On what tests?

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

On what tests?

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oh hell im not gona start digging up all the test threads but people do them all the time, and EK is renound for quality and customer satisfaction and support, just ask the people who own them. I dont know how harsh people were getting with this guy who left the forum over it but i know people are rough around the edges on this forum in general, and it doesnt bother me in the slightest, its my favorite kind of atmosphere, and this wc section has always had valuable feedback and information and i still consider it the best for anyone looking for information on how to build their system. But you cant just expect to make one post and know everything you have to do research on your own and read what people are discussing.

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

i dont run my mouth on any company unless i catch them slipping.

And believe me when i go off on a post on that company, i HAVE FULL ON PROOF!


But dave, you also need to list that a company if they want to promote on this site, needs to have full data backed on ANY statement they say. Dont make us bring another Koolance vs HWLabs incident. Cuz i will bring one if i catch a company slipping and lying to us.

R3 knows what company i currently have my eye on as well. I almost have enough proof to lay a can of whoopass on them as well.

Lying vendors shouldnt even be on this forum, so if we run them off, GOOD.

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There are ways to do things. Do it in a civilized manner and not "This frigging company sucks donkey di*cks!"..
Like the movie Roadhouse, "There's times to be nice and times not to be nice"
You find a POS product like those steel Koolance fittings show it, document it but don't say the owner of Koolance is the offspring of two mentally retarded Chimpanzee's..
Get my point.. civil..
Now I know your full of piss and vinegar and still young enough that the testosterone rules so whe you have that overwhelming urge to totally bas someone, PM me and do it ok?:up:

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

I agree with CD, I think alot of the problems have occurred because folks need to "Do something (that does NOT mean posting in this forum)". the old days of the forum used to be filled with people testing stuff and fabricating custom projects. Back in those days folks were too busy with a copper slab on thier drill presses or soldering on a heatercore, you just didn't get here without some pain and time invested in building stuff, it was a necessity. With watercooling going more mainstream, water cooling has made fabrication optional, you can have a fully functional water cooling system out of the box with 100% bolt on parts. No need to build and no need to test or tinker, it works. So I think part of it is just plain boredom, they don't share or contribute anything to the forum but their strong personality and business relationship opinions. I'd suggest taking the mix of parts and try and see if you can make them better, tinkering is always a means to make something even better and there is no one magic bullet or perfect combination for everyones budget or experience. We need more folks "Trying" or "Building":hammer: wierd ideas and, that's where the fun is at!! And even if we're not building parts from scratch, there's still tons to do with combinations of parts and sharing what you've learned.

I also think in general the "feel" here has been defensive and destructive.:poke: If you make folks feel uncomfortable or always find yourself in the middle of irritation, chances are you are being "Destructive" to the thread. If you are not posting something with 100% intent to help posotively encourage and help the person posting, you've failed at being constructive and you are being selfish. You shouldn't find yourself in the middle of conflict on every other thread or chances are, something is wrong. Take ownership of your actions and seek to be constructive.

I also think people are just sick of all the SPAM. AKA brand loyalty and fanboism, whatever you know what it is. Opinions without context as to why you feel the way you do is no different than your most annoying pop up banner ad. Opinions without context are SPAM!!:spam:

That's not to say we shouldn't have fun. If the forum was nothing but engineering data, I'd probably be one of a few sick souls that would stay here and enjoy reading it, but it would be quiet. Honestly water cooling is a hobby, it's not necessary, and it's not a perfect science. We're here to have fun, so lets do it, but just don't do it at the expense of others.:toast:

Cheers to constructive comments, constructive discussions, context supported opinions, and having an honest but respectful good time!!
:party:

Beers are on me!..:D

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:up:Excellent post.. I'll take a old fashioned Miller..Ice cold please..:D

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Originally Posted by Spawne32

So he left because people have an attitude when they post? Well i dont know if thats against the rules or not but generally thats the same attitude in any of the forums, people are who they are your not gona be able to change the way people talk because your thin skinned. Ive seen the fanboism but in the liquid cooling section i really dont think its that bad, ive gotten more valuable information out of this sub section then any of the others, people dont get excited and recommend EK blocks because they are fanboys, they recommend them because they are the best, plain and simple. Getting pissy because for the past 6 months every one is recommending EK waterblocks and giving an attitude over the way other companys poorly manufacture their products isnt fanboism, its the truth, plain and simple. You want the cold hard truth about how to build a awesome watercooling system, you come to the XS water cooling forum, you want to post how awesome your brand new 100 dollar koolance kit is, with the rotting compression fittings and the mixed matched metals, and have everyone tell you how uber cool it is, you go the IGN forums where they ban people on the spot for posting sny remarks against their sponsors.

Sorry thats just the way i feel, ive never had anyone in this liquid cooling section have an attitude that was out of line or hurt my feelings.

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It has gotten bad lately, trust me on that.
I wouldn't have typed till my fingers fell off if things were fine here.

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Originally Posted by gillbot

I still think if a vendor puts out junk, they should be called out on it. Most of the time they know what they are doing when they "slip", they just choose to soak up profits.

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Yes, but as I said to Naekuh, with tact and facts to prove your position.

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Originally Posted by mcoffey

-snip-

Again, my 2 cents.

andyc

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Andy and Martin :clap:


However, I believe NaeKuh will deliver, his metaphorical Can of Whoop ass, in a respectful manner, with facts, and without emotions and tears.

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Originally Posted by Movieman

There are ways to do things. Do it in a civilized manner and not "This frigging company sucks donkey di*cks!"..
Like the movie Roadhouse, "There's times to be nice and times not to be nice"
You find a POS product like those steel Koolance fittings show it, document it but don't say the owner of Koolance is the offspring of two mentally retarded Chimpanzee's..
Get my point.. civil..
Now I know your full of piss and vinegar and still young enough that the testosterone rules so whe you have that overwhelming urge to totally bas someone, PM me and do it ok?:up:

:up:Excellent post.. I'll take a old fashioned Miller..Ice cold please..:D

It has gotten bad lately, trust me on that.
I wouldn't have typed till my fingers fell off if things were fine here.


Yes, but as I said to Naekuh, with tact and facts to prove your position.

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Well you know me, no matter how bad things get i always love a good argument so i probably wouldnt have even noticed lol

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Originally Posted by Spawne32

oh hell im not gona start digging up all the test threads but people do them all the time, and EK is renound for quality and customer satisfaction and support, just ask the people who own them. I dont know how harsh people were getting with this guy who left the forum over it but i know people are rough around the edges on this forum in general, and it doesnt bother me in the slightest, its my favorite kind of atmosphere, and this wc section has always had valuable feedback and information and i still consider it the best for anyone looking for information on how to build their system. But you cant just expect to make one post and know everything you have to do research on your own and read what people are discussing.

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Dtek people recommend Dtek, EK recommend EK, etc etc . . .does not mean they are the best ;) Just means they think it is best. Come on . . .have I ever said Danger Den products are the absolute best? No. I say they are up there in the upper level . . .

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Originally Posted by gillbot

I still think if a vendor puts out junk, they should be called out on it. Most of the time they know what they are doing when they "slip", they just choose to soak up profits.

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I agree, but there is civil way to present it so the vendor/manufacturer listens to your feedback. As I said in my post, if we give respect and common courtesy we will recieve it back and will probably see more of them in the future. Now, would you deal with a customer that was a constant pain to deal with? Eventually, you'll give them the cold shoulder.

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

Dtek people recommend Dtek, EK recommend EK, etc etc . . .does not mean they are the best ;) Just means they think it is best. Come on . . .have I ever said Danger Den products are the absolute best? No. I say they are up there in the upper level . . .

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There are a few occasional fanboys, and your gona get that practically everywhere, but most of the people that post here are seasoned water coolers and they recommend certain stuff based on results, not rumors or because they own it.

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Originally Posted by skinnee

I agree, but there is civil way to present it so the vendor/manufacturer listens to your feedback. As I said in my post, if we give respect and common courtesy we will recieve it back and will probably see more of them in the future. Now, would you deal with a customer that was a constant pain to deal with? Eventually, you'll give them the cold shoulder.

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Respect and common courtesy is a requirement of business to business oriented practice, generally you wont get that from a consumer who just had one of his products from said manufacturer fail on him only to find out the warranty doesnt cover it. You cant expect people to always act in a civilized manner when you are getting feedback on your product, but no matter how it is said in words the feedback is still valuable. If a marketing rep is reading a thread where people are screaming and cursing that the aluminum fittings they just bought are corroding, obviously its somthing you have to correct. If you want to stay in business you have to deal with all manner of customers, not just the friendly ones.

Edit: not that im saying respect and common courtesy is a bad thing, but you cant abandon a forum because people have extremely negative point of views on what you sell, you have to work to correct the issue, no matter how much of a beating you take, thats the way you survive in business.

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

... If the forum was nothing but engineering data, I'd probably be one of a few sick souls that would stay here and enjoy reading it, but it would be quiet. Honestly water cooling is a hobby, it's not necessary, and it's not a perfect science. We're here to have fun, so lets do it, but just don't do it at the expense of others.:toast:

Cheers to constructive comments, constructive discussions, context supported opinions, and having an honest but respectful good time!!
:party:

Beers are on me!..:D

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Here Here ! Well said ! :up:
Count on me to be another of the "sick souls" that would be here reading the engineering data right along side of you. :D

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Originally Posted by Spawne32

Respect and common courtesy is a requirement of business to business oriented practice, generally you wont get that from a consumer who just had one of his products from said manufacturer fail on him only to find out the warranty doesnt cover it. You cant expect people to always act in a civilized manner when you are getting feedback on your product, but no matter how it is said in words the feedback is still valuable. If a marketing rep is reading a thread where people are screaming and cursing that the aluminum fittings they just bought are corroding, obviously its somthing you have to correct. If you want to stay in business you have to deal with all manner of customers, not just the friendly ones.

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Actually Spawne, we do expect it here. Whats more we DEMAND civilised manner.

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Originally Posted by [XC] riptide

Actually Spawne, we do expect it here. Whats more we DEMAND civilised manner.

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i meant for posts that are uncivilized but still with in the confines of the rules ;) theres no rules against angry posts calling products crap right?

We're splitting hairs... but ya I think we agree.

I'll say it again. No one has any need to defend reasons behind equipment choices, whether they are based strictly on scientific data, emotional reasons or just simply personsal preferences.

Honestly, anybody's choice of equipment isn't anyone else's damn business, and let's keep it that way.

Accusations of the "fanboy" nature are derogatory and demeaning. They debase the fundamental notion of individual choice.

When someone dislikes a particular set of brands, its also individual choice, and not anyone else's damn business. No one should be forced to fall in love with all manufacturers, and each consumer has every damn right to speak out for and against individual products, collective sets of products or a whole particular brand. Without infringing on anyone else's individual rights and liberties, its a free and open expression of opinion.

Next, its just fine for anyone to establish that the individual has X number of years of experience, or that has an engineering profession, or that the person has XYZ doctoral degree, or anything of that nature. The line is crossed when that individual insinuates immediate superiority over others when it comes to water cooling. Like I always say, any nitwit bumbling fidiot can pick up water cooling in an afternoon with some reading. This is not brain surgery. We're not building a bridge to the moon. Therefore, anyone in XS can have a valid opinion, and there is nobody here that commands full and immediate subjugation. Honestly, individuals of this elk like to flatter themselves a little too much. I'll leave it at that before I ruffle too many feathers.

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Originally Posted by Spawne32

i meant for posts that are uncivilized but still with in the confines of the rules ;) theres no rules against angry posts calling products crap right?

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No need to be uncivilized at all. All points can be made without saying the owner of X company is the illegitimate offspring of 2 manic depressive, psychotic Chimpanzees.
Best example I can think of is Naekuh's bringing up that point on the steel koolance fittings. That's the kind of info needed here. That and comments on new parts and then add in Joe Blow showing off his new rig as this is a hobby and we are supposed to have some fun with it.

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Originally Posted by IanY

I'll say it again. No one has any need to defend reasons behind equipment choices, whether they are based strictly on scientific data, emotional reasons or just simply personal preferences.

Honestly, anybody's choice of equipment isn't anyone else's damn business, and let's keep it that way.

Accusations of the "fanboy" nature are derogatory and demeaning. They debase the fundamental notion of individual choice.

When someone dislikes a particular set of brands, its also individual choice, and not anyone else's damn business. No one should be forced to fall in love with all manufacturers, and each consumer has every damn right to speak out for and against individual products, collective sets of products or a whole particular brand. Without infringing on anyone else's individual rights and liberties, its a free and open expression of opinion.

Next, its just fine for anyone to establish that the individual has X number of years of experience, or that has an engineering profession, or that the person has XYZ doctoral degree, or anything of that nature. The line is crossed when that individual insinuates immediate superiority over others when it comes to water cooling. Like I always say, any nitwit bumbling fidiot can pick up water cooling in an afternoon with some reading. This is not brain surgery. We're not building a bridge to the moon. Therefore, anyone in XS can have a valid opinion, and there is nobody here that commands full and immediate subjugation. Honestly, individuals of this elk like to flatter themselves a little too much. I'll leave it at that before I ruffle too many feathers.

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Pretty well said but if you toss an aluminum Koolance radiator in your loop I can understand someone explaining the effects of Galvanic reaction to you(sic) That to me, if it's said civilly, is constructive criticism and a positive thing.

Ok,
first things first, MM, this has to be the best quote I have ever read:

document it but don't say the owner of Koolance is the offspring of two mentally retarded Chimpanzee's..

I may put that in my sig. That made my day and really made me laugh hard.


Ok, so back on point. I joined this forum sometime around the first of the year. I started with a Swiftech H2O Compact kit that I got off of Ebay. Thought the idea was cool, so I got it. I ended up breaking a barb on the Apogee Drive and that started my journey to the system I have now. I like this forum because there are a lot of helpful (although colorful sometimes) people here and for the most part, supportive. When I asked about what to do with my Apogee Drive, Waterlogged gave me a suggestion of using a Petra top or something similiar. If he hadn't told me that I would have bought a new pump and thrown that one away. It's moments like that that make me like this forum. Now I like to build stuff and I agree with Martin, there are a lot of parts that you can get off the shelf and slap together, take a picture and viola, you have a "Million Dollar PC". But like Martin, I think the real good, juicy stuff comes from when people make it themselves or "Mod" something like a case. Since I joined I have made or attempted to make 3 cases, some good, some bad. I have modded 3 more cases, again some good and some bad. That's just me, I can't just sit around looking at something without trying to improve it. To me this forum, Xtremesystems, is about taking your passion to the xtreme. It might be that you want the "bling" "bling" and you build you system with lights and smoke and maybe even a Volcano Res made by Cyber :up:. Or you might be the guy/girl that wants to squeeze every last drop of performance out of your chip and so getting an extra 100mhz or better timings from your ram is worth changing your blocks or going with a TC rad. You could be that person that wants the absolute best bang for your buck, remember the Celeron 300a, yeah baby, that was a chip. My point is that "Xtremesystem" has a different meaning for everyone and therefore when someone asks a question they are probably going to get various answers based on personal opinions based on that persons preferences to what "Xtreme" means. How many times have we seen the question "What's the best block out there?". Are you serious? That's like asking "What's the best movie of all time is?". Those questions are just asking for it in my opinion, however, that doesn't mean we can't just simply say "What is your goal New Guy?" Do you want the best performance with unlimited money? Do you want the best bang for you buck? You get my point? It's ok to raz someone as long as you are also being helpful and doing it in a playful and respectful way. On the flip side, if you say something stupid or ask something stupid, don't go crying to mommy when someone slaps you, :D. We are all big boys and girls, some bigger than others, :D, and we should be able to take a little razzing here and there. I never got upset with folks for questioning my morality or ethics about whether to RMA something when we broke it and I said sure. Why? Because I do not personally know anyone here. Sure, I might speak with you, PM you, but until we sit down to dinner, we don't know each other, just that simple and so someone questioning my integrity just makes me laugh.

Now as far as people being a fanboy of a product or a company, who cares? We all know R3 loves Mountain Mods and Sidewinders, it doesn't make him a bad person just because he hawks them like they are the second coming, take it with a grain of salt. I think Koolance compression fitting are the best bang for the buck and tell people that, am I evil? I don't think so. If you come here and ask a question, i.e. "What's the best block?", R3 is not going to be the only person to sell you on a block, plenty folks going to try and sell you D-Tek or DD. It doesn't make any of them evil for doing it. But if you ask that question and then go and buy a product without spending sometime researching it and then you do not like it, tough. This forum should not be here to make decisions for people, just suggest some products that might be good for their situation. I was looking for a PSU awhile back and after my head felt like it was going to explode from all the reviews I had read, I asked for recommendations based on what I was looking for. I got a lot answers including some from JohnnyGuru. I took all that info, put it in a pot, stirred it, baked it on 375 degrees for an hour and then made a decision. In the end it was my decision and not someone else's and therefore I owned that, good or bad. So I say "Take some responsibility for your decisions or lack of" and do not expect that others should make them for you.

Now, can we get back to selling EK Supreme with TC Rads all bought from Petra's please. :D

Thank you and have a good night,

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Originally Posted by Utnorris

Ok,
first things first, MM, this has to be the best quote I have ever read:

document it but don't say the owner of Koolance is the offspring of two mentally retarded Chimpanzee's..

I may put that in my sig. That made my day and really made me laugh hard.


Ok, so back on point. I joined this forum sometime around the first of the year. I started with a Swiftech H2O Compact kit that I got off of Ebay. Thought the idea was cool, so I got it. I ended up breaking a barb on the Apogee Drive and that started my journey to the system I have now. I like this forum because there are a lot of helpful (although colorful sometimes) people here and for the most part, supportive. When I asked about what to do with my Apogee Drive, Waterlogged gave me a suggestion of using a Petra top or something similiar. If he hadn't told me that I would have bought a new pump and thrown that one away. It's moments like that that make me like this forum. Now I like to build stuff and I agree with Martin, there are a lot of parts that you can get off the shelf and slap together, take a picture and viola, you have a "Million Dollar PC". But like Martin, I think the real good, juicy stuff comes from when people make it themselves or "Mod" something like a case. Since I joined I have made or attempted to make 3 cases, some good, some bad. I have modded 3 more cases, again some good and some bad. That's just me, I can't just sit around looking at something without trying to improve it. To me this forum, Xtremesystems, is about taking your passion to the xtreme. It might be that you want the "bling" "bling" and you build you system with lights and smoke and maybe even a Volcano Res made by Cyber :up:. Or you might be the guy/girl that wants to squeeze every last drop of performance out of your chip and so getting an extra 100mhz or better timings from your ram is worth changing your blocks or going with a TC rad. You could be that person that wants the absolute best bang for your buck, remember the Celeron 300a, yeah baby, that was a chip. My point is that "Xtremesystem" has a different meaning for everyone and therefore when someone asks a question they are probably going to get various answers based on personal opinions based on that persons preferences to what "Xtreme" means. How many times have we seen the question "What's the best block out there?". Are you serious? That's like asking "What's the best movie of all time is?". Those questions are just asking for it in my opinion, however, that doesn't mean we can't just simply say "What is your goal New Guy?" Do you want the best performance with unlimited money? Do you want the best bang for you buck? You get my point? It's ok to raz someone as long as you are also being helpful and doing it in a playful and respectful way. On the flip side, if you say something stupid or ask something stupid, don't go crying to mommy when someone slaps you, :D. We are all big boys and girls, some bigger than others, :D, and we should be able to take a little razzing here and there. I never got upset with folks for questioning my morality or ethics about whether to RMA something when we broke it and I said sure. Why? Because I do not personally know anyone here. Sure, I might speak with you, PM you, but until we sit down to dinner, we don't know each other, just that simple and so someone questioning my integrity just makes me laugh.

Now as far as people being a fanboy of a product or a company, who cares? We all know R3 loves Mountain Mods and Sidewinders, it doesn't make him a bad person just because he hawks them like they are the second coming, take it with a grain of salt. I think Koolance compression fitting are the best bang for the buck and tell people that, am I evil? I don't think so. If you come here and ask a question, i.e. "What's the best block?", R3 is not going to be the only person to sell you on a block, plenty folks going to try and sell you D-Tek or DD. It doesn't make any of them evil for doing it. But if you ask that question and then go and buy a product without spending sometime researching it and then you do not like it, tough. This forum should not be here to make decisions for people, just suggest some products that might be good for their situation. I was looking for a PSU awhile back and after my head felt like it was going to explode from all the reviews I had read, I asked for recommendations based on what I was looking for. I got a lot answers including some from JohnnyGuru. I took all that info, put it in a pot, stirred it, baked it on 375 degrees for an hour and then made a decision. In the end it was my decision and not someone else's and therefore I owned that, good or bad. So I say "Take some responsibility for your decisions or lack of" and do not expect that others should make them for you.

Now, can we get back to selling EK Supreme with TC Rads all bought from Petra's please. :D

Thank you and have a good night,

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Where's my Ban Hammer?:rofl:
I have no issue with someone saying 'EK Blocks Rock"..
I have an issue with someone saying "If you don't buy EK blocks your a moron"
Also no issues with someone saying that Ben from Mountain Mods or the guys at Petra's are excellent or Sidewinders, or Performance PC's,etc are good to deal with.
It's not the positive I'm concerned with but the negative.
You buy a part that was broken at any of these places and they tell you to pound sand on an RMA then you have a right to be pissed but be pissed civilly ok?
There was a guy here complaining about one company so we did some research. He never bought from them and guess what?
He worked for their competitor. Sum Biatrch huh? Dirth pool my friend and that pissed me off. He's history and I mean on an intergalactic vacation that will last light years!
Honesty,integrity, and posts made in friendship will take care of all.
Treat each other with respect and things will improve and improve fast.

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Originally Posted by Utnorris

This forum should not be here to make decisions for people, just suggest some products that might be good for their situation. I was looking for a PSU awhile back and after my head felt like it was going to explode from all the reviews I had read, I asked for recommendations based on what I was looking for. I got a lot answers including some from JohnnyGuru. I took all that info, put it in a pot, stirred it, baked it on 375 degrees for an hour and then made a decision. In the end it was my decision and not someone else's and therefore I owned that, good or bad. So I say "Take some responsibility for your decisions or lack of" and do not expect that others should make them for you.

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I like that bit. At the risk of something (i'm not suite sure what lol); i think some people are just out to please the other members here. To suck up, to fit in.

Why, you ask?
Because i was like that to start with. I wanted to get parts that others here were using, not beause i needed them or they were best for me, but because i felt like "i i have this, i'll fit in and be accepted".

It's important that each member and newbie makes informed decisions, but we're not here to tell you what you want or like. We should give advice based on the criteria given to us (most of the time a budget). I can't stand it when someone (without having done any research) asks us to tell them what to buy. It makes me want to yell "You gotta get what you want. Only then will you be happy". I reckon that's half the fun of building a wc system; doing hours of research and getting exactly what you want, with some stuff you don't actually need. :D

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Originally Posted by twwen2

I think some people are just out to please the other members here. To suck up, to fit in.

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That's just blooming ridiculous. I never follow equipment trends, especially in XS. I don't even agree with the choices of those whom I call friends, and i'm certainly not going to blindly emulate them. Naekuh and RRR love their EK Supreme. You can't get me to buy one, even if you were to tie me up and subject me to Vietcong torture.

I caused a whole ruckus with YL fans, and I got the "I am Cathar and I endorse them.. " My attitude was.."yeah you like them, and 95 out of 100 people in XS like them, but it doesn't change the fact that they are still cheap Chinese crap.. and Cathar who?"

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Originally Posted by IanY

That's just blooming ridiculous. I never follow equipment trends, especially in XS. I don't even agree with the choices of those whom I call friends, and i'm certainly not going to blindly emulate them. Naekuh and RRR love their EK Supreme. You can't get me to buy one, even if you were to tie me up and subject me to Vietcong torture.

I caused a whole ruckus with YL fans, and I got the "I am Cathar and I endorse them.. " My attitude was.."yeah you like them, and 95 out of 100 people in XS like them, but it doesn't change the fact that they are still cheap Chinese crap.. and Cathar who?"

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His post wasn't about you and didn't mention your name once. :rolleyes: Why did you answer like this?

BTW The bolded part... was it necessary? This is the kind of thing this whole thread is about.

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Originally Posted by IanY

That's just blooming ridiculous. I never follow equipment trends, especially in XS. I don't even agree with the choices of those whom I call friends, and i'm certainly not going to blindly emulate them. Naekuh and RRR love their EK Supreme. You can't get me to buy one, even if you were to tie me up and subject me to Vietcong torture.

I caused a whole ruckus with YL fans, and I got the "I am Cathar and I endorse them.. " My attitude was.."yeah you like them, and 95 out of 100 people in XS like them, but it doesn't change the fact that they are still cheap Chinese crap.. and Cathar who?"

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Aha, i didn't have you in mind my friend. I know very well you don't follow the trends, you make that very clear very often ;).

However, just because you aren't like what i described doesn't mean there aren't those people out there. Just to clarify; i don't think everyone who asks for advice is trying to fit in or follow a trend. Not at all. I'm just saying that there are some people like that, because i was like that once.

And what was that thing about cathar for? I reckon if someone deliberately gave advice contrary to what someone like Martin210 would say, then i bet people would get worked up. I'd be the first. We respect the experts and their opinions because of the effort they put into this community. :)

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

I agree with CD, I think alot of the problems have occurred because folks need to "Do something (that does NOT mean posting in this forum)". the old days of the forum used to be filled with people testing stuff and fabricating custom projects. Back in those days folks were too busy with a copper slab on thier drill presses or soldering on a heatercore, you just didn't get here without some pain and time invested in building stuff, it was a necessity. With watercooling going more mainstream, water cooling has made fabrication optional, you can have a fully functional water cooling system out of the box with 100% bolt on parts. No need to build and no need to test or tinker, it works. So I think part of it is just plain boredom, they don't share or contribute anything to the forum but their strong personality and business relationship opinions. I'd suggest taking the mix of parts and try and see if you can make them better, tinkering is always a means to make something even better and there is no one magic bullet or perfect combination for everyones budget or experience. We need more folks "Trying" or "Building":hammer: wierd ideas and, that's where the fun is at!! And even if we're not building parts from scratch, there's still tons to do with combinations of parts and sharing what you've learned.

I also think in general the "feel" here has been defensive and destructive.:poke: If you make folks feel uncomfortable or always find yourself in the middle of irritation, chances are you are being "Destructive" to the thread. If you are not posting something with 100% intent to help posotively encourage and help the person posting, you've failed at being constructive and you are being selfish. You shouldn't find yourself in the middle of conflict on every other thread or chances are, something is wrong. Take ownership of your actions and seek to be constructive.

I also think people are just sick of all the SPAM. AKA brand loyalty and fanboism, whatever you know what it is. Opinions without context as to why you feel the way you do is no different than your most annoying pop up banner ad. Opinions without context are SPAM!!:spam:

That's not to say we shouldn't have fun. If the forum was nothing but engineering data, I'd probably be one of a few sick souls that would stay here and enjoy reading it, but it would be quiet. Honestly water cooling is a hobby, it's not necessary, and it's not a perfect science. We're here to have fun, so lets do it, but just don't do it at the expense of others.:toast:

Cheers to constructive comments, constructive discussions, context supported opinions, and having an honest but respectful good time!!
:party:

Beers are on me!..:D

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To add onto that, if you don't have anything that you can contribute to the thread and have proof to back it up, don't say anything at all. (Unless it's an opinion, which can never be backed up by facts.)

"A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool speaks because he has to say something" - Plato

i think the term fanboi denotes too much meaning for some people... (meaning the person is blind to everything else besides said product)... and should not be used often... i prefer/he prefers would be the better term/statement to use.

Just an example: RRR prefers this and that, but is also open to other opinions/suggestions (and will probably buy said other opinion/product and add it to his collection)
He is entitled to his opinion, and when you get to know his attitude/behavior, you either let it slide or let it get to you. Of course its better to let it slide.
this is an open forum, and some youngsters do learn from the examples we set. so keep things civil...

This is XtremeSystems Liquid Cooling, I came here to learn and teach what i learn. Patience and Common Sense being foremost.
I am sorry if the guy who PMed didn't stay or have the patience to wade through the recent BS going on around here, but there are always more people to teach and advice each day.

*sometimes typing in text doesn't clearly explain what we want to explain. people just need to keep an open mind on such topics. mods and members alike.