so what was the no-nozzeld no bowed d-tek like in temps compared to the supream
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so what was the no-nozzeld no bowed d-tek like in temps compared to the supream
I'm confused Malik...in your earlier post, you were comparing a BOWED dtek's flow rate to the Supreme...
in the 2nd, you switched to a non-bowed, non-nozzled?
Sorry for that - i have wrong info.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navanod
Now is all ok and here are all results: LINK
for sureQuote:
Originally Posted by Malik
numbers in that link are delta T water temp/cpu
Dtek is new from box, non-bowed non-nozzled
ttested on E6750 @ 3800MHz @ 1,45V
stressed with orthos for 30minutes, temp measure with coretemp
wc setup: BWA123UV (magicool 360mm uv radiator), swiftech MCP655, swiftech MCRES-Micro Res, tubes 10mm/14mm and Swissflow sf800
water temp was measure with TES 1314
thermal compound: AS5
each block was mount 4 times and on chart is best mount only
ps. sry for my poor english
Not necessarily questioning these findings, but would like to see some other people's results as well.
If I'm to put my results against these results, then the non bowed without nozzles fuzion is also quite a bit better than the GTX as well.
RLM
Thanks for the clarification...sadly, i'm not able to understand most of it...still, the charts spoke for themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malik
very interesting...:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett
Noticed no difference in temps between horizontal and vertical mounting.
Made an 1.5 hour run of Prime on my 6750 @ 3700, 1.40V.
On both mountings, temps were fluctuating around 47-48° on both cores.
Maybe the way of mounting won't affect temps that much on a dual core.
it wont on dual core only on quad core .Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupiler
Well,
it was worth a try anyway. :)
Thanks for linking the results of that test ^^
Pity that everyone but RLM seems to favour dual cores over quad cores to test it.
TBH I'm more interested in quad performance. Even the original Apogee managed rather well with my X6800.
However, I'm finding the QX6850 an altogether completely different beast.
It's not about favouring a dual core vs quad core to test it.
Not everybody has a quad or 2 rigs with different cpu's. ;)
If the Supreme would have fitted my board, I certainly would have tested it on my quad.
But ATM, I don't have the time to disassemble 2 rigs to test the block on a quad.
Thanks for posting:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Malik
i hope the supreme fits on the foxconn mars!
Sure it was! :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Jupiler
Thanks!:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Parad0x
Although I'm not sure I understand the pressure drop data or testing, it was still interesting.
It looked to me like they only had one guage and were simply measuring a single point of pressure and flow rate. The pressure vs. flow rate would still represent a relative bit of information where higher the pressure the more restrictive, that's good...but the pressure drop piece didn't make sense. For pressure drop you need to measure pressure on both sides of the block simultaneously (two guages) or use a manometer with a + and - input. Regardless I was still happy to see some flow rate type testing included.
I loved the bit where he defended the fit probs of eddy's custom water block by pointing out that many users of custom cooling used custom cooling.
Gawd!!
"Although, in defense of EK with regards to the compatibility problems, many overclocking enthusiasts tend to do away with manufacturer solutions, and instead opt for their own custom cooling."
I agree with Martinm, need to see both guages and the delta T info frankly looks wrong. The Fuzion is already approaching the near maximum of what is possible with water cooling at ambient temperatures (for the 50 ~ 150 watt output range at 1.5 ~ 2.5 gpm flow rates), so I am very suspicious from a thermodynamics point of view with regards to the delta T difference seen in the Overclock article.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
Jay
I wonder when the guy over at OC3D is going to ditch that Camry heatercore and pick up a real rad, ideally an MCR320 or a PA 120.3. It doesn't look like it'd have enough heat dissipation to give the most accurate results.
Eller
Eddie has been extremely straight up in my dealings with him. Its a real pity this blunder occurred but he'll get a refined plate out as fast as he can, I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
Im also interested how they measure pressure drop with only one guage. I think they measure pressure vs flow of setup with pump, then measure same thing in setup with waterblocks and subtract it from 1st data (only pump numbers)... i hope u get it :shocked:Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
I have 2 guages and flowmeter, so if u ppl want i can measure pressure drop vs flow today/tomorrow and post numbers here.
As someone completely objective (i don't own EK anything, and don't plan on buying anything for a while) it seems to me that Eddie has been very good about balancing having things out quickly vs. fixing things when they go wrong. Example: would you rather wait another 2 months to get a Supreme if it meant that Eddie went around to his friends' houses and checked their motherboards' fit? I think most people (especially at XS) would rather have the block in their hands and have to dremel off a corner of the mounting plate to fit their mobo than wait. And, he's fixing it, so it'll be fine in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedda
Another example is that NB block for the maximus; he got it out ASAP, and it doesn't quite fit right, so he's fixing it.
That would be cool. :up: From their test it would appear it's perhaps less restrictive than a storm, which would make it maybe about as restrictive as a Fuzion with a quad nozzle or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by jarogniew
I really hope this block fits on the Striker. How do you know its too big?Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
That would suck "big time" if doesn't.
Some insight on this matter. At the time when Supreme was introduced, there was not a single X38 board in our contry Slovenia. And I don't talk about that none of our friedns bought it, none of the distributors, resellers, shop had it, or even seen it and I'll bet you that if I called to every shop, for 95% of them this would be the first time to hear about X38.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
Same thing about Blitz series. Two months ago I called the largest distributor for Asus and he asked me if I am sure that Blitz Extreme is Asus product and then what is it's official name.
At this moment, I know of only one X38 board beeing sold until now, I am almost 100% sure that there is no Blitz board in our country, that none of distributors (including resellers) at this moment has any nforce 680 board on stock and I would be shocked if more than 5 nf680 boards like Striker Extreme or Abit IN9 were sold. Buying a DFI board is impossible.
We mostly have Abit IP35 and Asus P5K boards, and block fits on all of them. I also had Abit IN9 and there was no problem.
Andy, can't you mount it horizontal?
It's better that way it seems, which makes sense as the mid plate jet lines follow the lengths of the dies.
take a pair of metal cutting scissors and clip off a 1/4 inch of the mosfet fins that are in your way and move on.
this is a very new product and it takes time to test EVERY board out there. and for them to make a universal mounting plate with screw holes so close to the outside edge, they need to make sure it has enough material around the hole so it dosn't loose its structural strength
@mcoffey Thanks for the pics! I have the EK mosfet coolers on my Striker and don't think the block will fit. :mad: You gotta wonder how that happen.
Hopefully we will see a new mounting plate soon...real soon!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
Mainstream where, if I wanted to buy ASUS Maximus in Slovenia yesterday, I am quite sure that I wouldn't get it this year.
And yes, I agree, those compatiblity problems should not have happend and it will be fixed ASAP. When block was designed we wanted it to be the best performer, most universal as possible, even Xeon socket compatible and as low cost to buy as possible.
And the way those mothebroad heatsink design go, there will always be a problem with every cooling solution there is.
Andy,
You're right that EK said it would be best that way, but a few users have found other wise. They're not exact tests like nikhsubs1, but I guess it's a guide.
I believe it's best Horizontal because the surface area of the jets are more direct over the dies than Vertically. First time using Paint.Net so forgive me for the poor quality, but how I depict things:
http://www.meknet.co.uk/EKMount.jpg
DTEK didnt make two different mounting plates for the fun of it, I guess this is where experience kicks in.
Chalk it down to inexperience and get it fixed
Well if it doesn't fit my Striker Extreme without having to mod the plate then forget it. No matter how easy it is to mod it.
If an enthusiast level cooling product does not fit the enthusiast level hardware its destined to be used with, then why bother releasing it in the first place...:rolleyes:
EK should have enlisted testers world-wide who can ensure the products work before going public, it cost a lot less to send out gear for testing to a select few than it cost to have your reputation tarnished.
Dammit Eddie your work is top notch and I believe you should keep it this way.
Sometimes in business you have to eat your profits, just to make things right; send the replacement plates out no charge. You have to keep your customer base satisfied for the sake of your brand reputation.* My2 cents*
Thanks andy for pointing out the issues on the Striker.
I could file the excess, but I'd rather wait for Eddy to sort out a proper LGA775 mounting before buying the block.
Alltough I completely agree with everybody who sais it should not have happenend in the first place, its REALLY easy to mod.
Cmon guys, it's XS :P
I just dremeled the plate of until the AM2 mounting holes.
When the new bracket will come out I will toss this one.
Its stil about 20$ cheaper than a fuzion in europe. ;)
Hi!
We already making the 775 plates.
They are on the way to polishing and chroming.
Unfortunately that is done by another company.
We will ask them to make it as soon as possible so we can serve them to you.
Bet regards, Eddy
Ah, looking good Eddy.
Is that our X-mas present? ;)
No, they'll be 4,50 euros :(
Nothing is free these days :p:
mm thats one way to turn a hot block ugly :(
Like I've said before, Nice racket he has going there. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett
Well, I have not purchased an EK waterblock, but if I did and it didnt fit, and I had to pay extra for another mounting plate, Id be very irate, even for 4.5 euros (however much that is :P).Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett
Irate to the point where I would not purchase from said company ever again. Wouldnt matter if the company was charging me their costs (ie no profit for them) on the new plate or not.
Yes, it is a difficult task I am sure to make certain that a particular waterblock matches all expected mobos. Im not denying it. But when other companies successfully do the same, any competitors are expected to keep pace with the pack.
What if you purchased a TV mounting bracket, and the companies backplate did not fit your STANDARD tv mounting? Would you expect the company to send you a new backplate WITH APOLOGIES, or send you a new backplate with a BILL?
8-10$>??Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgdoc
Yes, even for $8-10.
For me its not so much about the money. Im not rich, but I work and own my own business so I could find $10 in the spare change i have in my car.
For me, its more about the support a company provides. If I (or my staff) make a mistake, I dont ask the customer to pay extra. I fix it and apologize. I expect the same courtesies from any companies I deal with.
Im sure the EK block is wonderful, and from what I have read Eddy ad his blocks have an excellent reputation both here and across the OC forums all over the net. If a mistake was made, or something was overlooked prior to the blocks being shipped out, If i were one of the ppl who purchased a block that didnt fit on any standard socket it was made for I would expect the company to rectify the situation.
Just 1 mans opinion.
I agree. Especially considering the relatively low cost, I think it would be wise to rectify this free of charge. If there was no disclaimer at the time of purchase, the vendor should offer some kind of recourse for the buyer. It's just good business. Personally if I had an issue like this, and the company shipped me the adaptor free of charge, I would definately buy from them again. It's a small thing that would generate more than enough good PR to justify it's expense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgdoc
I was wondering, after some of you tested it, would it be a improvement over my Apogee GT, that would be worth the money?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbogorgon
This is the problem right here. EK is fully aware their products sold globally, so why is testing done on a local basis? It's not even regional testing which would be a significant improvement. Don't just use boards that can be had in the home country of the manufacturer, go global if you have to. That will prevent this from happening in the future, which I'm sure will help polish the company reputation which is becoming quickly tarnished.
No, no it's not. :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgdoc
quick question
would u rather them spend an extra few weeks to months shipping out demos of the products to be tested on every board.
or have it now with about 5% of the customers needed modifications for the blocks
and you guys are quite right, they should ship out the 775 bracket free to anyone who purchased their product up until the date it was given as an option for order.
Not specifically talking about EK here, just in general. But if a company makes a strong effort to make sure it's products work, it's going to get a lot of customers. It's not about releasing a product early or late, it's about releasing a product that's tested and proven, and a product that's still "beta". As far as rectifying this situation goes, free brackets would be the obvious solution IMO, asking the customer to pay because you failed to test your product sufficiently is a bit rough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
EK has a great reputation around here for quality products, and for a good reason. I just think it would be wise to maintain that reputation with exceptional service. In a market where all the top products perform within a hair of each other, service is what tips the scales for a lot of people.
I think your misunderstanding what I mean. I'm saying if you can't find a board you know is going to be popular locally, maybe you should have one shipped in from elsewhere for test fitting, even if it's just a loaner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
Or ship it to a few enthusiasts worldwide with good access to the boards (like those who own/work in computer shops). Think of this as R&D investment, which would easily avoid this mounting plate issue.
:up: There are plenty of people with solid reputations that would've gladly worked to improve this block for free, why not take advantage?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xilikon
RnD still takes time. and no one yes has answered my origninal question. for the 1 in 20 of you having problems, do you think the time it takes to fix your problem, is big enough to slow down the other 19 people who are happy with it?
and fuji, your right about service tipping the scale, thats why i also said that they should give out the correct 775 bracket for free for those having issues.
I am damned glad I did not order a block at this time. I would have been very irate if the block did not fit and I was forced to wait on adapter. And maybe pay for it.
I think with all the excitement about the block, and people demanding them, things just got way, way, too rushed. I hope Eddy has learned a valuable lesson. :shakes:
Well I just ordered the Dtek fuzion instead. I couldn't wait because I sold my heatsink, and the guy is waiting on it.....not to mention that it may not even fit on my motherboard.
Well, he coulden't possibly test all board's, so i dont see this as a disaster, i mean Apogee GT has 2 plates, Apogee GTX dosent even fit AM2, FuZion has 2 plates too, so what's the big deal?Quote:
Originally Posted by qdemn7
Yeah but those blocks explicitly state that they either won't work, or require an adaptor. In this case, the buyer is being asked to foot the bill to make the product work as promised.Quote:
Originally Posted by nullface
When you put it that way i see the problem :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fujimitsu
But again, would it be worth the money to step up to Supreme for Apogee GT?
I think that since it seem to have a problem with the entire Asus ROG line as well, if I am not mistaken, the Gigabyte X38 board the 1 out of 20 ratio you are quoting is greatly underrating the extent of the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
And I think that a company that sells globally should be able to obtain at least a sample of each of the popular enthusiasts' boards even if it has to order them globally. Scan UK ships internationally. Should not be too dificult to get boards from them as an a example. Any of the Asus ROG board would have demonstrated the problem clearly and saved to company lots of face.
Obviously you don't get it. It is NOT a big deal that the first mount plate doesn't fit some 775 boards. It IS A BIG DEAL than EK is now charging EXTRA for an additional plate that the users should not have to buy. The block should have worked and it didn't. EK :banana::banana::banana::banana:ed up, don't blame the end user for that. It is VERY BAD BUSINESS. :down:Quote:
Originally Posted by nullface
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullface
...Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
Yeah cross post, sorry :D When I started writing that post, yours was the last post (the one i quoted). I got sidetracked... oh well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgdoc
Looking back in my old Economics text book, it clearly states that: "...statistically speaking, the fastest method to which a manufacturing business can lose their customer-base is to expect more than the customer asked for [I would argue it extends beyond just manufacturing businesses]...Specifically, customer service should include support for any faults which could have been prevented with further research and development (R&D). Side-Note: The exception to this policy should be limited to improvements upon the original design or performance not clearly stated in the original product's specifications.
Sorry Eddy, but I won't be supporting a business that isn't willing to support it's customers :)
but is also on the customers part to at least have a clue what he is buying instead of buying blindly, because in that case, even with out malicious will on the sellers part, a fool and his money are easily parted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fujimitsu
No the customer is not always right.
If a manu. makes an item that fits 90% of the boards out there, he/she should not be responsible for the customers mistake of not taking that extra step to know what he/she is getting especially in light of the market @ which most of the items we talk about are aimed because we have an idea of what we want, and how it should/can be used, most of the e-tailers we use don't sell specified parts to the general public, that is what KOOLANCE and DELL, and related others are for.
You can not please everyone, its statistically impossible.
Up till now, EK has been busting his hump, listening to us complain, whine, suggest and recommend ideas and parts we want and need, as with the other stated blocks that have theirs, no one here should be jumping all over him, because a mistake was made.
We can ask that for those of us that already have the block, be given a replacement part, but from here on out, because it is a known issue, that any future purchase is @ the fault of the customer, for not looking for any known issues with compatibility.
Um, Yes the GTX does fit the AM2Quote:
Originally Posted by nullface
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...48eb9fdf302004
Yeah, your 1 in 20 comment is really out of skew, I'd say closer to 13-15 out of 20.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
Gee, can you name the last "decent" block to come with a universal plate? I can. It's called the Apogee GT. Every "enthusiast" usable block since has come with specialized mounts, and with good reason, board manu's have been adding ever increasingly ridiculous heatpipe setups and encroaching upon the CPU area for better cooling. I fail to see how EK couldn't see this coming. :shrug:
QFAQuote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
mcoffey, some of us didnt forget the issue regarding multioption rev2 which was supposed to solve vortex problems...
now comes additional anti vortex plate you need to buy and shipped to you to really get rid of vortex...
regarding mounting plates, maybe next time Eddy will follow the intel only/amd only plate design less hassle that way...
and maybe include both plates as option for purchase... much as we'd want the extra plate for free...
http://shackit.pl/malik/Dtek&Supreme/DSCF0376.jpg
Two titan's ;)
i like the overall look of the fuzion of the supreme...
both look great but i like my fuZion :)
fuzion/bowed still king atm...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malik
FuZion wins hands down in the looks department there :cool:
I just noticed the other day, you can get a bottom mounting plate, that cleans it up even more.:up:
I'd probably nix the springs and hardmount it, then you could have some nice short studs.
http://www.dtekcustoms.com/ProductIm...nt_dis_web.jpg
http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp...rodID=205&HS=1
yikes, that doesn't look very good at all anymore. (then again, the Fuzion didn't look good in the first place)Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
and wouldn't that shift the mounting force to a different place on the block? it seems like it would mount different than the stock on, but call me crazy...
Now that should fit on any board out there. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
But I would like to see some data on mounting pressures compared to the original plate.
WOW Martin, great find! :up:
I think it would raise the mounting pressure a little, because any potential bow from the bracket is now forced to hit the copper instead of being allowed to flex like the the original. Think I'll pick one up for my FuZioN that's going on my E6300 when I get around to building it. :rofl:
I think on the board it would look clean, sort of like Ianh's custom block. The mounting plate is all down at the board level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Nirvana
I would loose the springs and tall studs though, just keep it low profile. Personal preference, but I just don't like mounting plates with a zillion holes in them....I understand the economics of it, but it takes the custom out of water cooling for me. Sort of like those custom car wheel with 4 lug studs that have 8 holes for two different sizes...not for me.
Not sure on mounting pressure, being down low like this may help ensure a centered alignment on the chip, I can only think it would help mounting consistency some.
Anyhow sorry to be off topic, back to some EK stuff. I hope Eddie is still considering me for pressure drop testing when the new nozzles for the EK come out. I'd like to see a pressure drop and thermal performance of each plate..:up:
Me too. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
I think about cut this screws ( to get out this springs ) and hard mount, like swiftech blocks :)
Does anyone have any new testing on this product? im debating between this and the Fuzion w/Nozzle kit..
Do you guys want home pictures of this?? Let me know within the next 45 min. Im about to take apart my main rig and mount this on it.
If you guys do, i'll take it apart quickly and snap some pictures and put it back together, and then upload it to you guys b4 i mount it.
If you want a temp aproximation between this and a ApogeeGTX i'll give that to you guys as well. Sorry dont have a temp aprox of a d-tek fusion with nozzles. :\
Sounds good. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
Results are always welcome... :)
And Pictures!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeBar
Heres the complete block:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0841.jpg
Opened:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0842.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0843.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0844.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0845.jpg
Looks like lazer burnt marks.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0847.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0848.jpg
looks good, except for the middle plate scorched on 1 end, looks like roughly treated...
I'm too lazy to read through the entire forum, so can someone tell me how EK's new block stacks up against my D-Tek Fuzion and Apogee GTX?
About the same as the FuZion nozzled and bowed, and a bit better than the bowed Apogee GTX (and Naekuh's going to try to nozzle the GTX).Quote:
Originally Posted by ranker
In essence, about the same.
I'm curious as to where this info is coming from?Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
That's what I was thinking. So far I've only seen comparisons to completely stock fuzion without a bow, without a nozzle, and without a washer. and I've seen performance on both sides of that.. I havn't seen any comparisons with a nozzled/bowed fuzion..:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
Awesome pictures, thanks for taking the time to share them!:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
right now im currently seeing about a 2-3C lower difference from an apogeeGTX bowed. Man accelerators mean i also have to fine tune my pump. RAWR....
Still playing around with the mount tho. I think i may need a few more remounting..
If your talking about the nozzles, i told iany i was going to experiment with it :]Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1