I have both right here and both are great. I would recommend either to people.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxGods
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I have both right here and both are great. I would recommend either to people.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxGods
BG, sorry to hear about the falling out. If I'm not mistaken, PC is also somehow connected to Moddersmart (formerly Voyeurmods), if this is the case. . .I'm really not surprised. It reminds me of an old Native American parable.Quote:
A scorpion was walking along the bank of a river, wondering how to get to the other side. Suddenly, he saw a fox. He asked the fox to take him on his back across the river.
The fox said, "No. If I do that, you'll sting me, and I'll drown."
The scorpion assured him, "If I do that, we'll both drown."
The fox thought about it and finally agreed. So the scorpion climbed up on his back, and the fox began to swim. But halfway across the river, the scorpion stung him. As poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and said, "Why did you do that? Now you'll drown, too."
"I couldn't help it," said the scorpion. "It's my nature."
This is one area RRR or someone over that has the story right (I hate to admit it but when I am wrong I am wrong and there is no shame in admitting those I do not like are right). There is a fun story. I thought this resevoir was a great thing and the idea is great the execution sucked. All that matters is end users have fubar stuff. I am hope they are taken care of. Hopefully Geno can get one in production in delrin as that is the only one that probably should be on the market. Personally I think people should get full refunds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
I think the idea is great. Mine still works, it just doesn't work for my current build. I think the QC is the issue here and the customer service around that is the second major area. Now while some may say the design was flawed, the testing was skewed or that certain people were shilling the product, the reality is that it is a good design, but as DB pointed out, somewhere along the line the execution became flawed. I still stand by what I said originally, that this product was a great idea. Unfortunately, things have happened that have caused that idea to be warped. If Primochill wants to make this right, they need to step up and take care of their customers first. Yes, I believe they have done Geno wrong, and they should fix that if they want their rep with future designers to be worth something, however this is really about the customer and right now that needs to be the priority. This is not a time of "I told you so." since that serves no purpose and I am sure plenty of folks are saying that right now, but what does that accomplish. The real issue is that customers got a product that was flawed and while we have seen this in the past from everyone from Koolance to BP, the difference is that those companies took care of their customers.
@DB - As far as either RRR or someone over there having the the story right, it is only partially correct. The main gripe they had was that the design was flawed, the testing was skewed and people, such as myself, were shilling the product, all of which was BS. Yes, they had some good points from the way the everything was executed, but to go so far as accusing people of shilling or falsifying tests was wrong. And while you might admit you were wrong about something, they never will.
you misread my post. i did not say there were right about everything, just some things ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Utnorris
I have no axe to grind either way but just because Brian chooses not to wash this pile of dirty laundry in public doesn't mean he is the bad guy in all of this.
There are always two sides to every story and all i'm hearing right now is one side from a guy who quite obviously has an axe to grind.
Calling for a Primochill boycott is absolute nonsense given without them this thing probably would never have reached fruition.
Right now, i don't know if that's a good or bad thing but if i employed a designer i would surely want them to follow through with a product that actually worked and not blame every other person involved rather than taking at least some of the wrap when it all goes tits up.
I would imagine this has hurt Brian pretty bad financially and he's probably not going to be able to at least attempt to put things right if his product are boycotted altogether so why not cut the guy some slack before making any rash decisions.
Just my :2cents:
Hey guys ... wanting to ask that everybody chills. This isn't the place to be talking about boycotts or other potential legal actions.
as long as he takes care of his customers, that is what really matters. Since there has been a report of the new units (or at least one) again having a crack issue I would advocate for full refunds so the customers do not risk further problems. If the new units will be the solution he goes with, they should first go to some independent testing facility to ensure their stability before going into any more customers' hands. I will not weigh in on blame as that will work itself out and it is not my place to comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by coolmiester
Shaz is right in that this forum is NOT the place to start boycotts. Brian, if you are reading this: Please do whatever you can to take care of your customers. Your feelings and Geno's feelings really are of way less importance. Customers first.
I wonder if it's just a short term business decision for PrimoChill to be selling paper weights.
hmmm. Think they're going to start selling mod kits so we can have glowing, battery operated paperweights? That way, we can reed our papers in a midnight windstorm, without worrying about the papers blowing away, or the power lines being knocked down! PrimoChill, innovative solutions to uncommon problems.
I don't disagree that the blame may need to go around, unfortunately, the only reason we know what we know is because Geno has come on here to let us know the situation and Brian has not. Go back and read how many times Geno has been in here responding and trying to help and how many times Brian has. The reality is that when you do not say anything then everything can be assumed. I only put the "Boycott" thing in my sig hoping it would get Brian to come in here and give some sort of official response, especially after users are reporting the new ones are faulty too. Remember, this is not a design flaw, but a manufacturing flaw, a designer can only do so much, especially when he is left out of the QC part. No one is holding Toyota's designers at fault, but the manufacture that produced the cars and ignored the QC part. In the past, it was the manufacture reps that came in here and took care of issues, not the designers.Quote:
Originally Posted by coolmiester
My thoughts exactly. Take care of the customers and they in turn take care of you by being return customers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
Quote:
Chorus:
You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away and know when to run
You never count your money, when you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin', when the dealin's done
Shazza is right (as usual).Quote:
Originally Posted by shazza
To put this thing to bed, My relationship with Primo Chill is officially over in any and all forms. I am not collecting any fees or royalties for any future sales of injection molded T3's and am no longer involved with it in any way shape or form. Whether or not Brian/Primo Chill takes care of the issues is entirely up to him. I would like to believe he will and that is my hope.
I also am convinced that if he can have the parts annealed at a reputable shop (as I have maintained from day one) after tapping and prior to being bonded that the cracking issues will be resolved.
The upside to hundreds of posts in this thread is that I have made many new friends and found that I really enjoy the community here and I intend to continue hanging out in the forums.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
DB, yesterday I was a little miffed with you, actually I was going to confront you on this a little.:gay:
I don't feel that way today:peace:
What is there to take issue with (with regard to my statements)? Customers spent money on a faulty product which has no forseable fix. Many of them might no have the means to go buy a replacement part. They should be entitled to a full refund and in short order. That is just good customer service.Quote:
Originally Posted by the finisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
I wasn't taking issue with your statements regarding refunds at all!Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
It's just that I've already been air cooling for years. Also, if I screw up, have a mishap, and loose hardware, that's my fault. At some point that may happen, that's the risk we all take. I'm more than willing to make fun of myself if it does:D
However, as you state above, that's not the issue with the T3.
I'll have funds to get another reservoir or 2 soon, but of coarse there is nothing like the D-5 pump top/reservoir, Geno designed, on the market anyway. IMHO this is truly an innovative idea. I hope Geno can get a reliable rev. 2 to market before the copy's inevitably show up.
On the same subject, I've done some research on blow molded plastics. Geno's assertion that annealing the parts after machining + the proper mix of additives in the plastic, would have avoided this train wreck altogether. This is accurate IMHO. Cutting production corners on such a critical component as this, is a dumba** move!
http://www.annealingplastics.com/
http://www.eastcoastmfg.com/plastic_annealing.htm-"Screw threads are a feature in a plastic component that benefits from annealing. Part failure can occur since the screw places a steady long-term stress on the component in combination with the residual stress from the machining process. Annealing the part reduces the machining stress at the threads and in most cases, the screw stress alone is not normally enough to cause part failure."
This ones in my practicaly in my back yard :)http://www.arrowcryogenics.com/annealing.htm
http://www.connecticutplastics.com/c...ess-relieving/
Here's alot of info on the subject. http://www.bayermaterialsciencenafta...ling_batch.pdf
Hey, Shiner,TX, where the first shop is located, makes Shiner Bock=awesome:toast2:
I also want to say something about this in regard's to Geno's candor about this subject. If Geno had not posted info about the production irregularities here, more people including me, may have installed or left this "time bomb" installed. He has looked out for Primo's customers as best he could, in my estimation.
I can't see how you can claim a refund if you haven't used (installed) the product. But I do believe a recall and replacement is in order, if that can't be acheived in a timely manner a refund might be deserved.Quote:
Originally Posted by the finisher
I don't think Primochill need to slang it out on this forum, private business agreements should remain private, what I do think is Primochill should inform us of counter-measures and timelines in delivering a product fit for purpose, and soon. I'm sick of having a brand new i7 machine out of action.
Ric
Catch 22, why isn't yours installed? First you say one thing, then another. A timely manner:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo40
I agree, and I don't expect them to slug it out here.
However, Brian has posted 2 times only.
With Geno out of the loop, now no info on the T3.
Fixes, replacements, do I have to wait till it fails? Nothing.
Should all T3 owners email separately for these answers? I guess yes, am doing tomorrow.
I'll just hook it up to a bucket and let it run, but with out mounting in a case,+ the pressure, and temp cycles. I still won't trust it. I really don't want to set up a functioning loop just to test for failure. And for how long? Beta tester anyone?
Keep in mind my T3 was made at a very suspect time, heard of many failures, from that "vintage". Also, mine was drilled on top for the fill port. That makes it even more likely to fail. See my post above.
Let me be clear. I would be very happy with a reliable, functioning product.
I think any one who bit, has a right to ask questions:yepp:
I was told my replacements would be sent out last Friday.
No replacements, no replies to numerous e-mails.
And a corei7 + GTX295 PC sitting going to rot.
This whole situation is one big joke.
Although on the bright side it has taught me one very valuable lesson ;)
If you did get a drilled one, I think Geno did all the drilling, but I could be wrong.
I understand the issues and I feel bad about suggesting these. Mine is still good, but I have one of the direct ones that replaced the yellow band ones. It seems those must be about the highest quality ones as most people who got those are reporting they are still working. I also never had any issues with getting a hold of Brian, but I also called him each time and never really used the online system.
It would be nice if Brian could give updates. I tried looking on Primochill's site and I still don't see anything there.
I'm going to be replacing mine anyways though. I hope you guys that got their hands on the bad ones, get things resolved.
i got mine back in august, this weekend i turned up the pump to full speed and saw it pulling in air bubbles from one of the screw holes for the pump cover plate. more inspection showed a slight crack, i might fix it later with some fish tank silicon glue, but it will never go in the case again.
So was looking forward to getting a T3. Been waiting for my tax return to finish out my loop and thought a t3 would fit nicely. But it seems there's been a pseudo recall on T3's.
Yet i hear there is hope with a Delrin T3....any ETA on this?
In case the Delrin T3 is months out can anyone recommend an alternate dual bay res?
XSPC res with MCP355's.
It would be great if T3 owners would post there experience's here. I have heard alot of stories of fail. Not many about success. Doen't mean there arn't any, but haven't heard many.:shrug:
Obviously stories of woe, will get more attention. And people who feel ripped off, are going to make more noise. :cussing:
It's useful to learn about others experiences,[good & bad] as now that's the only info on this fine product.
Of course what would realy be nice is if, the Guy who sold these, would comment on the situation/solutions here. He knows it's here, either ignoring,or just doesn't care.:yepp: