OCZ to come out with new VERTEX SSD,S equiped with 64MB OF CACHE starting at $129

I can't see a benchmark coming out that everybody is happy with. No matter what benchmark it is some people will feel it favours small writes/reads more than "real" use, and some people will feel it doesn't favour them enough. Some people will feel the drive should be asked to do several things at once, other people may feel this doesn't represent real use.

A drives performance will vary greatly depending on what it's asked to do, and since nobody has really come up with an accepted formula of what the drives will actually be doing in real usage then it's very difficult for a benchmark to come out which will show actual real performance.

OS boot times for example mean nothing to me. I boot my PC up once a week. But other people may boot up twice a day and use the device for half an hour. Some people might be concerned about how long a virus scan takes. Other people might have it scheduled to run at 5am and aren't bothered.

I know the solution to all our problems...
Fast single drives (not internally fake raided) that saturate SATA3 bus and don't stutter. Fast single > Raid0 IMO
After that who really cares for more (for the OS)... :D
How fast it really is will not be important then. Something like: "how fast is you hdd" was not so important 10yrs ago (to most)

If it doesn't stutter the chances is nobody will notice it is 20 or 30% slower than the best future one. How fast is fast enough? Well that depends how hell bent you are for top synthetic scores, doesn't it?
I will be more than happy with apps and levels loading in 1-5sec and my R/W file copy transfers at about 300MiB/s.

Next stop after that... Huge Cheap SSD 2-4TB drives that do 200/200 like current SSDs could. So when I put 8 of them them in silent RAID5/6 it screams for the need of quad core Raid card. Sustained transfers will be important here... where you have TBs of data and don't want to wait for hour to duplicate them.
:)
Aaaa good times ahead! Cant wait for this phase to finish though. It's getting tiresome to keep up and make a right choice.
:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Halk

I can't see a benchmark coming out that everybody is happy with. No matter what benchmark it is some people will feel it favours small writes/reads more than "real" use, and some people will feel it doesn't favour them enough. Some people will feel the drive should be asked to do several things at once, other people may feel this doesn't represent real use.

A drives performance will vary greatly depending on what it's asked to do, and since nobody has really come up with an accepted formula of what the drives will actually be doing in real usage then it's very difficult for a benchmark to come out which will show actual real performance.

OS boot times for example mean nothing to me. I boot my PC up once a week. But other people may boot up twice a day and use the device for half an hour. Some people might be concerned about how long a virus scan takes. Other people might have it scheduled to run at 5am and aren't bothered.

---

The problems benching a SSD are about linear speed. Benchmark reviews uses a good set of benchmarks.

The point is that they are not enough. Different people wants different benchmarks. For instance, I would have liked a virus scan test, a file copy test (done manually), photoshop load, winrar and similar real-world applications.

OS boot time is significant of fast read speed, even if you dont boot your computer often (or the raid controller takes much more time to boot itself ;). )

I think that Tech report has a very good set of benchmarks to test SSDs, which do include for instance, file copy AND install at the same time to show multitasking performance.

TR has the best set of HD tests I have seen by far.
The VERy big problem is they test the hard drives on an old P4EE system FFS :( You can't tell me that doesn't make things bad for today's hard drives...

First review out now on cdfreaks.com CLICK ME!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

First review out now on cdfreaks.com CLICK ME!

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Caution: written by OCZ rep.

lol you assume she is but she is not, she is an senior cdfreaks reviewer.

No not a OCZ rep.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by One_Hertz

Caution: written by OCZ rep.

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Is it the Apex drive the one that has the on board RAID configuration?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

lol you assume she is but she is not, she is an senior cdfreaks reviewer.

No not a OCZ rep.

---

Yes, very much an OCZ rep. Has been for a while now.

Wow, that is impressive. It would have been nice if Wendy included the benchmark results from the Raided Core v2s though.

And just what do you consider a rep.?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by One_Hertz

Yes, very much an OCZ rep. Has been for a while now.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by One_Hertz

Yes, very much an OCZ rep. Has been for a while now.

---

She is a mod on the OCZ forums, not a rep though.

She's not a moderator either.

I know im sold (will be getting a couple of 30's and raiding them:))

but i think its a poor review when they dont compare it to a intel x25.

I guess another week or 2 before we see a proper review.

Either way, from a price point, atleast OCZ are starting to come out with a decent drive that we can afford.

Intel are you listening??? Key word - "afford"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Knight

Is it the Apex drive the one that has the on board RAID configuration?

---

Yes. Thought it was kind of a stinker in that review. Vertex did great though. Let's hope these are the results enthusiasts see when we get our grubby hands on them!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dal1en

I know im sold (will be getting a couple of 30's and raiding them:))

but i think its a poor review when they dont compare it to a intel x25.

I guess another week or 2 before we see a proper review.

Either way, from a price point, atleast OCZ are starting to come out with a decent drive that we can afford.

Intel are you listening??? Key word - "afford"

---

Except that the OCZ is more $/GB than the X25-M.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lowfat

Except that the OCZ is more $/GB than the X25-M.

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True, but not all of us can afford 400+ for a single drive

If the sub-150€ for the 30gb proves true, this drive will be well seated in my upcoming silent HTPC :)

haha. The first store in Norway has the vertex 30gb in stock now. $215. LoL. I'm gonna wait until the price lowers before i pull the trigger on 2 of those ^^

I wonder what config will perform better as OS/Apps drive for gaming rig?

Single X25-M 80Gb
Single Vertex 60Gb
Two ICH10R RAID0 Vertex 30Gb

Thoughts?

I was going to wait to get a 60GB vertex, but the other day I ended up getting a brand new x25-m for 281 bucks shipped, I couldn't pass up that deal :cool:

Thank you for confirming what I have already said, I appreciate it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lowfat

She is a mod on the OCZ forums, not a rep though.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Praz

She's not a moderator either.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by FoxRacR17

I was going to wait to get a 60GB vertex, but the other day I ended up getting a brand new x25-m for 281 bucks shipped, I couldn't pass up that deal :cool:

---

Damn you :p: Cheapest place I could find in Canada was $445.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

And just what do you consider a rep.?

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You are right, we probably have different definitions. I should have said "affiliated with OCZ". Maybe that is not right to say either. I don't know what the term would be; English is my third language. Lets call it "very friendly with OCZ". Very far from independent reviewer in either case.

In case people haven't noticed, the vertex seems to have a very serious problem with sequential small reads/writes. The all-in-one iometer test (which is a combo of sequential small reads and writes) is showing horrible IOPS. Just 1450 or so, in comparison to 1800 for old 36GB raptor and 8500 for X25-E. We'll have to see some reviews...

I do happen to know her and have reviewed WITH her for quite some time.

To say she is "Very far from independent" is a slap to her face.

Sorry but you should really get your facts straight before you discredit someone.

She has VERY independently reviewed 100's of various computer product and tells it like it is.

If you don't believe the review that is fine we all have our opinions but you sir have it all wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by One_Hertz

You are right, we probably have different definitions. I should have said "affiliated with OCZ". Maybe that is not right to say either. I don't know what the term would be; English is my third language. Lets call it "very friendly with OCZ". Very far from independent reviewer in either case.

In case people haven't noticed, the vertex seems to have a very serious problem with sequential small reads/writes. The all-in-one iometer test (which is a combo of sequential small reads and writes) is showing horrible IOPS. Just 1450 or so, in comparison to 1800 for old 36GB raptor and 8500 for X25-E. We'll have to see some reviews...

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

I do happen to know her and have reviewed WITH her for quite some time.

To say she is "Very far from independent" is a slap to her face.

Sorry but you should really get your facts straight before you discredit someone.

She has VERY independently reviewed 100's of various computer product and tells it like it is.

If you don't believe the review that is fine we all have our opinions but you sir have it all wrong.

---

As soon as any so called independent reviewer joins the forums of a competing company in some sort of position other than a passerby they immediately discredit themselves to the maximum extent. She was even called a tester for OCZ for a while.

My facts are very straight, that review is biased garbage. The drive was not compared to anything in its weight category and saying that the only negative is the price is just a bad joke. I just named a very hefty drawback in my previous post yet she somehow missed it. So she is either incompetent, biased, or both.

The drive may very well be good, but as of now, there is nothing available that can even remotely be considered a proper review.

The amount of the growing OCZ fanboy base is astonishing. So many people preordered the drives without really knowing anything about them.

PM me when your review comes out, I can't wait to see it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by One_Hertz

As soon as any so called independent reviewer joins the forums of a competing company in some sort of position other than a passerby they immediately discredit themselves to the maximum extent. She was even called a tester for OCZ for a while.

My facts are very straight, that review is biased garbage. The drive was not compared to anything in its weight category and saying that the only negative is the price is just a bad joke. I just named a very hefty drawback in my previous post yet she somehow missed it. So she is either incompetent, biased, or both.

The drive may very well be good, but as of now, there is nothing available that can even remotely be considered a proper review.

The amount of the growing OCZ fanboy base is astonishing. So many people preordered the drives without really knowing anything about them.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by One_Hertz

As soon as any so called independent reviewer joins the forums of a competing company in some sort of position other than a passerby they immediately discredit themselves to the maximum extent. She was even called a tester for OCZ for a while.

My facts are very straight, that review is biased garbage. The drive was not compared to anything in its weight category and saying that the only negative is the price is just a bad joke. I just named a very hefty drawback in my previous post yet she somehow missed it. So she is either incompetent, biased, or both.

The drive may very well be good, but as of now, there is nothing available that can even remotely be considered a proper review.

The amount of the growing OCZ fanboy base is astonishing. So many people preordered the drives without really knowing anything about them.

---

I agree with you 100% if you go to the OCZ forum you have to go by there rules and say nothing neg or put anything that will compete with there product without getting banned. Bottom line we are the consumer in a very new market to ssd's. The Vertex series seems very promising and I will check them out when a more non-bias review comes out. Then again I really do not think OCZ will send out FREE vertex drives to real reviewers. The real reviewers will have to shell out some cashola themselves and this can take months.

Seems to me that SDD manufactures' chose to use selective headline read/ write performance to market their drives as it was the most unbalanced way to compare HHD performance. Now they are stuck with it and some at least are struggling to maintain ever increasing headline read/ writes whilst simultaneously trying to address the ongoing root problem of poor sequential small reads/writes, which are the Achilles' heel of most SSD's.

I'd like to see a benchmark that could show a true comparative performance of HDD /SSD using parameters that are reflective of user experience.....normal OS use, rather than assuming someone is transferring huge files all day long on a drive format that has comparatively low storage capacity.

It seems ironic that some SSD manufactures' blame "M$" and anyone else in the firing line when selective headline high read/ write performance fails to translate into fast user experience, when every other week a new SSD version hits the shelf with a different controller/ configuration. That can't exactly make it easy for the rest of the community to provide supporting software/hardware. Who could blame them for sitting back and waiting for the dust to settle?

(I guess if nothing else a new drive per month keeps certain fanboys ever hopefull that they will one day eventually get a decent performing SSD.)

I like the way they made real world file copy transfer tests! :)
To bad they didn't include X-25M or even E drive...

Actually there is no excuse for that!:mad:
We could have laid this issue to rest if they had, or at least have a meaning full discussion.
This way the speculation continues:rolleyes:

I ain't ordering anything until the dust settles:p:

So I ban people for talking about Intel or corsair on my forum....eerr NO. I tell people off yes because its free advertisement of a competitors product.

Remember i run a forum OWNED by a manufacturer, its NOT XS and never will have the freedom you have here as OCZ are here to sell and support OCZ product.

Get a grip guys, if you don't like the drive...fine i can live with that, but this bashing and personal crap is p155ing me off royally.

I have banned 1 person...and that was 28 day holiday for disrespecting me on another forum...so please get your facts right before you make accusations.

Why do i continue to defend myself here when I am not wanted...?

im done with XS

Quote:

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Originally Posted by One_Hertz

As soon as any so called independent reviewer joins the forums of a competing company in some sort of position other than a passerby they immediately discredit themselves to the maximum extent. She was even called a tester for OCZ for a while.

My facts are very straight, that review is biased garbage. The drive was not compared to anything in its weight category and saying that the only negative is the price is just a bad joke. I just named a very hefty drawback in my previous post yet she somehow missed it. So she is either incompetent, biased, or both.

The drive may very well be good, but as of now, there is nothing available that can even remotely be considered a proper review.

The amount of the growing OCZ fanboy base is astonishing. So many people preordered the drives without really knowing anything about them.

---

Isn't the review also completely irrelevant because the " Vertex" that was tested used a different controller firmware to the retail version that is allegedly one day going to hit the streets?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by audienceofone

Isn't the review also completely irrelevant because the " Vertex" that was tested used a different controller firmware to the retail version that is allegedly one day going to hit the streets?

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The review was done with the shipping firmware.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Praz

The review was done with the shipping firmware.

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So the drive that was tested in December had the same firmware version as the retail version?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freonor

haha. The first store in Norway has the vertex 30gb in stock now. $215. LoL. I'm gonna wait until the price lowers before i pull the trigger on 2 of those ^^

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It is not in stock yet. What store? Komplett.no, Ps.no ? Prisguiden.no :p:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by audienceofone

So the drive that was tested in December had the same firmware version as the retail version?

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Her review went up yesterday. Where is December coming from?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

So I ban people for talking about Intel or corsair on my forum....eerr NO. I tell people off yes because its free advertisement of a competitors product.

Remember i run a forum OWNED by a manufacturer, its NOT XS and never will have the freedom you have here as OCZ are here to sell and support OCZ product.

Get a grip guys, if you don't like the drive...fine i can live with that, but this bashing and personal crap is p155ing me off royally.

I have banned 1 person...and that was 28 day holiday for disrespecting me on another forum...so please get your facts right before you make accusations.

Why do i continue to defend myself here when I am not wanted...?

im done with XS

---

:ROTF:

Tony FYI since you make this personal and do not understand we are the consumer and yes it is not your forum this is a OPEN discussion one. Let me get this off my chest. Since I bought a OCZ product I have had 4 DOA on new products from neweggs. I think you guys try to do WAY to much instead of focusing on one solid product like Corsair. Again you should not let me spoil your input here on this forum for the rest. We are in hard times right now and I think we want 100% best service. Everyone keeps talking about this drive and we wait then the Apex pops ups, we wait and wait and wait bla bla bla. If this product is HOT like you say just put everything out on the table already Intel M, Intel E, Western Digital VelociRaptor, 15k drives and the famous Vertex drives and let us be the judge. You are only doing this to your self in my opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Praz

Her review went up yesterday. Where is December coming from?

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Isn't the writter of the review a beta tester for OCZ? Do you know who else has got the drive to review?

PC Perspective, CDFreaks and AnandTech all receive pre-released drives with shipping firmware. Does this make them Beta testers? I would think so just like reviewers who have pre-release motherboards or any other product.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Praz

PC Perspective, CDFreaks and AnandTech all receive pre-released drives with shipping firmware. Does this make them Beta testers? I would think so just like reviewers who have pre-release motherboards or any other product.

---

The reviewer was a beta tester of the OCZ Apex and as this review has come out before any other review I presumed it was pre release Vertex with an earlier fm revison, but if not my applogies.

I guess other reviews will be imminent and hopefully for the fanboy's it will be something they have long deserved.

Guys

I have never banned anyone for giving a competitor free advertising on the ocz forum..I edited posts just like XS staff edit sigs for linking to other sites without permission etc.

A number of reviewers all had drives early as Praz says, I also know many reviewers beta test boards and video cards under NDA then review them once NDA is lifted...this is the norm and you all except that.

I'm not taking this personal but im getting sick of defending myself here. if you don't like the drives don't buy them,for me its that simple...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by audienceofone

The reviewer was a beta tester of the OCZ Apex and as this review has come out before any other review I presumed it was pre release Vertex with an earlier fm revison, but if not my applogies.

---

No it was NOT...if you want I will have her open the drives so you can see

Well if that review is in any way doggy it pales into comparison on the indentity/creditbility of whoever wrote this as a comment to the review. :rofl:

Posted by Aaron Ambrose (guest) on Friday 27 February 2009 03:55
Seriously, love the review, and love the drive!!!
Where will these be available to buy first (and when)?
I still have a couple of concerns, however, before I make the SSD plunge. These concerns may not be an issue with OCZ SSD drives at all, but they seem to be with some other SSDs.
So here goes:
- Any word on the rumoured symptoms that affect the only competitor (x25-m/e) being an issue with this drive? For example, will this drive properly prevent (or allow an OS to prevent) defragmenting. The experts say that a total reformat is required to fix the Intel "M.”
- And the "E" (SLC) even sounds worse, in that it is said that after only one use, the blocks are required to erase, then re-write - cutting their awesome write performance in half after only one use! (But I get the feeling this phenomenon is common (to a degree) with all SLC SSDs.)
- How about the other issue you hear about: the 80% issue? After reaching 80% full, it appears a lot of SSD’s have a heart attack! Which could really prevent the smart shopper from buying the 30 GB drive... if, of course, this is an issue with “this” such drive...
How does this drive fair with these issues? Any info anyone? Anyone... Buler?

I for one really appreciate the contributions you make to the forum Tony. It makes complete sense to not allow a lot of talk of competitors on OCZ forums. Exactly as you've stated, why give free advertising to competitors. The funniest was when people were irritated that they were given no help with a competitor's product.

I think it's awesome that OCZ provides such direct contact with it's customer base and even set up a poll to figure out what they wanted for a product's firmware. I can name plenty of manufacturers who turn a deaf ear to customers or at the very least react very slowly to customer needs.

from here
http://www.cdfreaks.com/reviews/OCZ-...enchmarks.html
http://gfx.cdfreaks.com/reviews/ocz_...w/image023.png

Why do I think that the ATTO shows horrible performance?
Check the link below and tell me, why should someone prefer the Vertex insted of the half-priced samsung mlc at 100pounds (130-140 at ebay)
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/s...tml?SAM-SSD64M

benchmarks: http://www.thelab.gr/showthread.php?...#content_start
By Chosen

ATTO is the most worthless benchmark, when it comes to real world usefulness.

OT: what's with the crazy Firefox promotion banner in the sig, karateo?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

Yes but you comment on cheap value drives as if they are high performance drives...just look at the bashing Core got on here and you will understand my point.

When OCZ release a value part you guys still think it should be good for breakin records, fact is to make money these days you have to focus away from the top end enthusiast as the market is to small until the price of the high end components comes down.

Sorry fact but true.

Its like selling top line enthusiast motherboards, 500 to 1000 pieces made total, mid range boards...40 to 50k Pieces made...
I have a feeling you guys are going to see less high end parts coming thru due to the recession.

---

Today's "top end enthusiast" technology is tomorrows main stream user technology, that's never going to change, so I don't see any reason why the top end market will disappear.

What I see changing is a reduction of choice resulting from a significant reduction in companies competing in the same market.

Developing, branding and marketing a new SSD drive every month doesn't seem like a viable business plan. The Core and Intel's drives came out around the same time. The Core has plummeted in price in comparison to Intel's SSD's and has been superseded by numerous models making it an outdated product, whilst the Intel SSD's are still using the same technology, but are increasing capacity and are still the best performing SSD drive for the money.

On Scan the 120GB Vertex costs £3.06 per GB the 160GB Intel X25-M costs £3.80. A huge difference in price in comparison to HHD, but insignificant in relation to the cost of SSD when you consider depreciation values based on performance increases over time, not to mention the huge scope Intel have to drop their price based on the longer recovery period they have had to reduce their investment costs.

In short it's hard to see how OCZ are ever going to compete with SSD long term in today's market conditions and whilst there is likely to be less choice I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing as I can see a gain through a better balance of technological advancement that reduces costs on all sides.

That's not a personal attack it's just a subjective analysis of the facts.

Hmm, I'd agree with you loosely. However the "top end" products don't end up directly as mainstream. They get cut down a little, a few expensive features get dropped etc. For Vertex though I think it will eventually end up as a mainstream product. It's not a motherboard with quad SLI, or a graphics card that needs a coal furnace to power. It's an SSD with a good controller and cache.

I can't understand OCZ coming out with quite so many product lines on SSD. I can't see that continuing though. We're approaching the limits of what SATA can do, and cache only does so much good. Controller optimisation and waiting for the next controller (SATA 6GB or PCIe) is next. I expect the Summit is likely to be the last thing they bring to current controllers. I don't understand why they have both Solid and Core though, and why they have Vertex, Apex and Summit. But maybe they intend to drop Apex when Summit comes around, and maybe they intend to drop either Solid or Core when stock levels are depleted.

OCZ may be tiny fish compared to Chipzilla, but it's not just OCZ that are behind the products. It's the consortium behind their new controller Indilinx, and Samsung as well as OCZ. OCZ have the whole of the market to choose from when they put their specifications together, as far as I'm aware they don't even assemble them in house. When that's taken into consideration things look a bit better for OCZ. There's rather large advantages to outsourcing, if a product doesn't turn up like it should then you can dump the supplier, if a product suddenly becomes out of date the supplier gets dumped too. Personally all I care about is the drives I have on order. After that it's just a general hope that competition continues. I suspect in the same way that people hope AMD stay afloat to ensure Intel keep being pushed forward with CPUs. Competition is good for us consumers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Halk

OCZ may be tiny fish compared to Chipzilla, but it's not just OCZ that are behind the products. It's the consortium behind their new controller Indilinx, and Samsung as well as OCZ. OCZ have the whole of the market to choose from when they put their specifications together, as far as I'm aware they don't even assemble them in house. When that's taken into consideration things look a bit better for OCZ. There's rather large advantages to outsourcing, if a product doesn't turn up like it should then you can dump the supplier, if a product suddenly becomes out of date the supplier gets dumped too. Personally all I care about is the drives I have on order. After that it's just a general hope that competition continues. I suspect in the same way that people hope AMD stay afloat to ensure Intel keep being pushed forward with CPUs. Competition is good for us consumers.

---

I agree that there are potentially huge benefits to essentially rebranding someone else's technology and investment, but it's high risk in today's market.

Look at how methodically Intel developed and planned a roadmap for their SSD drives. That is serious investment that I can't see a fragmented supply chain competing with anymore.

Also none of OCZ essentially rebranded drives have been on exclusivity deals as competitors have sold near identical units. Most likely the only difference is what one company specifies as controller trades off in performance to another's, in other words there is no significant differentiator between company A or B for essentially the same product.

OZC jumped on the Core and rushed it out with great claims without appreciating how they were going to perform. For the price/ performance ratio of the Core it was never going to be a viable alternative to a HDD. They had no choice but to essentially ditch the Core in an attempt to rebrand themselves with a better performing product, which must have been costly.

Don't get me wrong I hope the Vertex is a success and works well but the bottom line is that if it does it's not going to be much, if any cheaper than an Intel SSD and that is what it is going to be compared with.

One final thing I guess is that when SDD eventually goes mainstream who will Dell/ etc go to for their SDD. Intel or OCZ? Why would Dell, or anyone else, use OCZ when they could cut them out and go straight to whoever OCZ may be using at a particular time?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XS Janus

OT: what's with the crazy Firefox promotion banner in the sig, karateo?

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promoting my FREE favorite web browser
what ur problem about it?

OT

Quote:

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Originally Posted by audienceofone

One final thing I guess is that when SDD eventually goes mainstream who will Dell/ etc go to for their SDD. Intel or OCZ?

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None of these two: Samsung :)
They are already their sole supplier and SSDs are available in all of their notebook lines.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by karateo

promoting my FREE favorite web browser
what ur problem about it?

OT

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OT
None... But it looks to aggressive IMO. I'm just not used to seeing promotions done this way on this site. Free or otherwise...
I use FF to, so I wasn't trying to hate or anything...


Back on-T: I hope Corsair and others are paying attention and spying on OCZ and their hard work being put into this. I hope to see their products compete as well.

Vertex must have some serious problems to be delayed for so long.

Corsair's first SSD is just a rebadged Samsung. I opened mine up, it uses a Samsung ARM controller and it has 32 mb of onboard cache. Even though the specs say 90/70 it's a lot faster.

That's exactly the problem. Corsair, OCZ etc are associated with high end components and that is why there is a market for them to rebrand someone else's product, but their market is not mainstream, it's high end.

Their products were sold as being high end for the masses at a reasonable price but they are not top end and the price/ performance ratio was completely unacceptable.

I was one of the first people to buy a Core in the UK and was the first to post about stuttering on OCZ's forum. At first they totally denied it and it obviously took them by complete surprise. When denial was no longer an option they looked at ways of reducing stuttering by coming out with tweaks. [You won't find any of the posts because OCZ removed them. Not just posts but complete threads.]

OCZ's forum is just a desperate attempt to mitigate the poor performance of the Core. The Vertex is really what the Core should have been in the first place.

What gets me is that OCZ tried to blame the Core on customers "that did not understand what they were buying", "M$"......anyone but themselves.

Intel don't have a forum, but guess what, you don't need to go to an Intel forum to work out how to make their drives work, they just work out of the box. They did their research before release, OCZ did it afterwards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GNU

Hm I'm between Intel X25-E and OCZ Vertex. It will take some time to choose the right product. :D

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Mmh, I suggest Intel X25-E :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaVi90

Mmh, I suggest Intel X25-E :D

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Take a look at those 4 samsung slc 32gb in raid0. Left: stripe 128 cluster 16k without os and right: same stripe and cluster with os (vista ultimate 64). They cost (all together) less than an intel x-25 and you end up with 120gb :cool:

Man, gone for the weekend and I missed all this= ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

PM me when your review comes out, I can't wait to see it.

---

Maybe OCZ should send him a drive to compare- That would probably be the best move for OCZ. That is, if they have faith in their product.

Once the products line up with what they are marketed as, then you'll see the "ocz haters" shut up- Haven't seen that happen yet though.

Tony- No need to come on here and defend your products if they work as advertised. It's that simple, don't know what all your OCZ forum buddies are getting out their psychology books and analyzing all the "haters" over here :rofl: No one is making anything over here personal, you're the one that is acting like you're being attacked. Maybe you should try and take a more professional demeanor on these forums instead of acting like a victim. Same goes with Wendy now on your forums. She/He only discredits herself/himself with the immature comments made on your forums regarding users on this forum. Looks like you XS guys here really hurt Wendy's feelings, she needed some group therapy it seems and they are having a Pow-wow at the OCZ forums :shrug:

I'm just a consumer, and I have the freedom to be critical of any product I want. If that upsets you, and makes you feel hurt, well you're in the wrong business. So please, XS mods, if you think I am being unfair in any of my posts, let me know. As far as I know, XS is a place that encourages critical analysis of hardware/software. That's all I have done, and most others on this forum. Wish people would stop crying when someone disagree's with them, or God forbid, actually calls someone out on their ignorance.

One last thing- Make up your minds whether benchmarking is valid or not. It's really getting old to see you guys praising your drives when the Benchmarks are good, then trying to discredit all benchmarking when the results are poor.

...somehow I doubt that post will lessen the tension. :)

my thoughts on the whole Wendy drama:

it just goes to show that if you want people to perceive you as a truly independent objective reviewer, don't post on a manufacturers forum. As unbiased as she or any other reviewer may be, people jump to conclusions and put one and one together. It goes something like, 'Wendy posts at OCZ, therefore is biased for all OCZ products'. Rumors start flying, and any credibility for the reviewer is shredded to pieces due to rumor and drama alone.

Really sad that its that way, but people will naturally think like that. But of course people on the internet are always arguing and bringing up retarded comments regardless if she post or doesnt post. Either way, time to move on and past this drama

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Griff805

Man, gone for the weekend and I missed all this= ;)



Maybe OCZ should send him a drive to compare- That would probably be the best move for OCZ. That is, if they have faith in their product.

Once the products line up with what they are marketed as, then you'll see the "ocz haters" shut up- Haven't seen that happen yet though.

Tony- No need to come on here and defend your products if they work as advertised. It's that simple, don't know what all your OCZ forum buddies are getting out their psychology books and analyzing all the "haters" over here :rofl: No one is making anything over here personal, you're the one that is acting like you're being attacked. Maybe you should try and take a more professional demeanor on these forums instead of acting like a victim. Same goes with Wendy now on your forums. She/He only discredits herself/himself with the immature comments made on your forums regarding users on this forum. Looks like you XS guys here really hurt Wendy's feelings, she needed some group therapy it seems and they are having a Pow-wow at the OCZ forums :shrug:

I'm just a consumer, and I have the freedom to be critical of any product I want. If that upsets you, and makes you feel hurt, well you're in the wrong business. So please, XS mods, if you think I am being unfair in any of my posts, let me know. As far as I know, XS is a place that encourages critical analysis of hardware/software. That's all I have done, and most others on this forum. Wish people would stop crying when someone disagree's with them, or God forbid, actually calls someone out on their ignorance.

One last thing- Make up your minds whether benchmarking is valid or not. It's really getting old to see you guys praising your drives when the Benchmarks are good, then trying to discredit all benchmarking when the results are poor.

---

Well said. :clap:

Got my Vertex today for my OS and moved my VelociRaptor 2x300GB RAID 0 for use as a gaming drive

some quick test

Vertex Full vista install and fully updated

HD TACH

Vertex

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8049/hdtach.jpg

VelociRaptor

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3378/hdtachrap.jpg

HD Tune
Vertex

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8157/hdd1.jpg

VelociRaptor

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2932/raphdd.jpg


IO/Meter
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9436/iometer.jpg

^^^^

Thanks for that. Following those benchies seems 60GB vertex is about 15% slower at random writes than 120GB version and a bit slower at seq reads.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by georgesod

Take a look at those 4 samsung slc 32gb in raid0. Left: stripe 128 cluster 16k without os and right: same stripe and cluster with os (vista ultimate 64). They cost (all together) less than an intel x-25 and you end up with 120gb :cool:

---

Again, those prices were some stock sell out. Normal prices are 3 times those, so stop pimping these.

Can you post IOmeter for VR setup?
How does it compare to that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by One_Hertz

^^^^

Thanks for that. Following those benchies seems 60GB vertex is about 15% slower at random writes than 120GB version and a bit slower at seq reads.

---

I think it would better to see both SSDs actually benched on the same machine before making those claims.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

I think it would better to see both SSDs actually benched on the same machine before making those claims.

---

IOMeter results do not change from PC to PC. It is the most stable storage benchmark to date in that sense.

In the past few weeks I have seen a LOT of FUD regarding the Vertex drives. I am forced to wonder how much of it is just from people who have already spent nearly double the price on Intel drives and are just trying to justify their purchase. :D

Seriously, I have not seen so many people so virulent about a new piece of technology. Especially one that seems to be good on all accounts... Sure, in individual ways HDDs are still faster, and the Intel can do some other things better... but is there really a reason for such rancor directed at OCZ for wanting to even try competing with the Intel at nearly half the cost ? I say bravo to them for not trying to gouge their audience's wallets, like Intel seems bent on doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by One_Hertz

IOMeter results do not change from PC to PC. It is the most stable storage benchmark to date in that sense.

---

Of course they can change dude. There's potentially different hardware, controller differences, settings, cache settings etc...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 3Z3VH

In the past few weeks I have seen a LOT of FUD regarding the Vertex drives. I am forced to wonder how much of it is just from people who have already spent nearly double the price on Intel drives and are just trying to justify their purchase. :D

Seriously, I have not seen so many people so virulent about a new piece of technology. Especially one that seems to be good on all accounts... Sure, in individual ways HDDs are still faster, and the Intel can do some other things better... but is there really a reason for such rancor directed at OCZ for wanting to even try competing with the Intel at nearly half the cost ? I say bravo to them for not trying to gouge their audience's wallets, like Intel seems bent on doing.

---

Do you own a vertex or any other ocz drives ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 3Z3VH

In the past few weeks I have seen a LOT of FUD regarding the Vertex drives. I am forced to wonder how much of it is just from people who have already spent nearly double the price on Intel drives and are just trying to justify their purchase. :D

Seriously, I have not seen so many people so virulent about a new piece of technology. Especially one that seems to be good on all accounts... Sure, in individual ways HDDs are still faster, and the Intel can do some other things better... but is there really a reason for such rancor directed at OCZ for wanting to even try competing with the Intel at nearly half the cost ? I say bravo to them for not trying to gouge their audience's wallets, like Intel seems bent on doing.

---

Who are you kidding when you say 1/2 the cost?
120GB Vertex $510 CAD. $4.25/GB
60GB Vertex $290 CAD. $4.81/GB
30GB Vertex $149 CAD. $5/GB
80GB X25-M $440 CAD. 5.56/GB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

Of course they can change dude. There's potentially different hardware, controller differences, settings, cache settings etc...

---

I am talking about single drive ICH10 results to single drive ICH10 results both within Vista. 120GB Vertex is ~2450 RW 4KB IOPS and the 60GB is ~2150. This is expected as Tony did say this was going to happen. He also said 30GB should be a bit quicker than 60GB, so we will see that part later.

@day187: That IOmeter test is 4k, right?

1x250GB on ICH10R
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1...4krwich10r.jpg

2x120GB on ICH10R in Raid0
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/212...4krwich10r.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dengyong

Do you own a vertex or any other ocz drives ?

---

One OCZ Core v2 120GB. And yes, I have felt the pains of the stuttering and poor write performance of the JMicron controller. but too many people have been ragging on the Vertex Drives based on the reputation of earlier OCZ drives, when comparing the internals of the Vertex vs Core is like comparing apples and oranges.

I don't mean to defend OCZ's Vertex at all, but it just seems a lot of the FUD being spread is not based on any hard fact, only speculation.

Trying to say the Vertex will be just like the Core because both are made by OCZ is pure crap. This would be like saying the Intel stutters like the Core V2 simply because they are both SSDs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lowfat

Who are you kidding when you say 1/2 the cost?
120GB Vertex $510 CAD. $4.25/GB
60GB Vertex $290 CAD. $4.81/GB
30GB Vertex $149 CAD. $5/GB
80GB X25-M $440 CAD. 5.56/GB

---

X25-M 160GB $869.91 ($5.44/GB)
Vertex 250GB $899.99 ($3.60/GB)

You are correct, not half, but still a major difference between the two. And with the price cuts Intel has made in only the past month (they used to be upwards of $8/GB only a month ago), I am not surprised the gap has narrowed... but typically the newer technology is the more expensive one, not the established technology that has been out (and mass-produced) for several months.

I am not even here to dispute which is king of SSD drives. All I am saying is the OCZ seems to be doing VERY well in all respects, and even giving the Intel a run for its money, but all I have heard from enthusiasts is an emphatic cry-fest, rather than them being ecstatic that someone is giving Intel a bit of competition that can drive the price point of USEABLE SSDs into the mainstream market (which has been the only thing holding them back).

We should be HAPPY about this people, not resistant.

New firmware coming soon, large increase in sequential write speeds with all drives giving the same performance.

Vertex was not late..it was PR'd to early... told you this many times.

Want more info come you will have to read it on oczforum

haha get it while it is hottt and for a good price (help the poor craponomy) :D only 2 left
http://cgi.ebay.com/OCZ-VERTEX-SERIE...3%3A1|294%3A50

Great news on the new firmware. You guys are really working hard to please!
Now if only OCZ products had better availability in Croatia... it's a jungle now, I have no clue who is actually importing. Since your job is sales Tony... :) hint,hint;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tony

Vertex was not late..it was PR'd to early... told you this many times.

---

Orly?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...2&postcount=31

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tony

Vertex looks to be happening over the holidays, so its looking like you may see drives just after Xmas and between new yrs

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XS Janus

@day187: That IOmeter test is 4k, right?

---

no idea i just used Tonys config here

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiJon89

Orly?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...2&postcount=31

---

Umm....that's somebody elses fault.....um.....O snap. :clap:

Hmm the link you gave takes us to "full test"
In full test, 250GB vertex does ~1440. yours is faster than that... strange:confused:

You can try using this configuration in the attachment. It was posted by Tony on the OCZ forums, but I dont remember the original thread and filename.
Maybe he can provide us with the links here.
I believe it is the same config the other two Vertex results I posted were done on.
If I'm wrong on this somebody please correct me. I don't wanna add to the confusion.:)

Now available to buy 30gb,60gb, and 120gb versions at ZipZoomFly

Mwave has the 120GB for $419.99 plus $50 mir. :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoss331

Mwave has the 120GB for $419.99 plus $50 mib. :up:

---

weak. one per customer. Does that mean I can buy 1 today then another tomorrow?

I think thats just for the rebate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoss331

I think thats just for the rebate.

---

tried to add 2 to the cart, and it only lets me do 1. super lame.

BTW: are the 120 gigs still better in performance than the 30s and 60s? I know theres a new firmware companies that improves performance across all the vertex drives...but are the 120s still faster due to more cache?

EDIT: Meh, I just paid twice, 2 separate orders....I think I understand now, the quantity is based off of the rebate. So you have to make 2 orders if you want 2 products...I guess... ??

Did anyone see this new OCZ Demos 1 TB RAID0 Solid-State Drive with Unbelievable Transfer Speeds
712 MB/s read, 500 MB/s write :eek: right when you think you want the fastest setup they come up with something else. If this is true then the Fusion-io ioDrive 80GB for 3K will loose allot of customers fast when then can get 1T of space for half the cost..

is it really worth it to go 3x30 Vertex drives in RAID0? Looks impressive...but in the long run, is truly worth the price? I just got 2x30 Vertex drives...I'm going to run RAID0, but it will contain the OS only...maybe a few small apps, but thats about it.

Would I really see a huge gain in performance when doing 2 vertex vs. 3 vertex 30 gbs?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lu(ky

Did anyone see this new OCZ Demos 1 TB RAID0 Solid-State Drive with Unbelievable Transfer Speeds
712 MB/s read, 500 MB/s write :eek: right when you think you want the fastest setup they come up with something else. If this is true then the Fusion-io ioDrive 80GB for 3K will loose allot of customers fast when then can get 1T of space for half the cost..

---

That solution was expected as ssd already are pressing the controllers with their speed.
its a tad expensive yet tho.

1. Posted already in the news section.
2. More likely 4 Vertexes
3. They bench cache, not flash.
4. flopper, buy 1 SI TB of flash + controller for $1500.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tony

New firmware coming soon, large increase in sequential write speeds with all drives giving the same performance.

---

wait, so vertex has not even shipped to the online stores yet? Tony, why is mwave already selling all the vertex models with nothing saying it's preorder? or are they selling an earlier firmware version?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhiteFireDragon

wait, so vertex has not even shipped to the online stores yet? Tony, why is mwave already selling all the vertex models with nothing saying it's preorder? or are they selling an earlier firmware version?

---

Yes. The vertex drives can be updated with the new firmware later when it comes out. So...deal with the old now, then upgrade when the new firmware comes. Simple...only thing is you have to reformat.

Zipzoomfly, amazon, and mwave have these drives, I did will call for Mwave, should be installing tomorrow around 3 p.m. :)

First off, I only registered to say this forum seems to have more than it's fair share of w@nkers, who seem only content with spitting venom @ OCZ.
Sure I can understand there are some people that think they got burned with V1 & V2, but were these drives not returned anyway?
Also just to make clear there were also ALOT of people who did not report any such issues with V1 & V2 and not to mention that OCZ is not the only company using JM controllers!
Anyone fancy starting a hate thread about Seagate with me?

Orangeblast, look at the benchmarks in the following link for 3x30 Vertex figures!
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=52216

I'm no expert but, it looks like I can buy three 30gb vertex's to put in raid 0 and have the following for about the same cost of a single 80gb x25-m (@ scan.co.uk's prices 3x vertex is around £15-£20 Cheaper)
1) Slightly more storage
2) Vastly superior performance in both read and write!

I know which drives I will be getting!!!

And if it was not for companies like OCZ all you Intel fanboys would be paying even more through the nose for your ssd's, because EVERYONE knows Intel tries to screw every penny they can get away with out of their customer to the point of pure GREED!
Looks like my next build will be a Phenom 2 also! Lol

Best Regards

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhys

I'm no expert but, it looks like I can buy three 30gb vertex's to put in raid 0 and have the following for about the same cost of a single 80gb x25-m (@ scan.co.uk's prices 3x vertex is around £15-£20 Cheaper)
1) Slightly more storage
2) Vastly superior performance in both read and write!

---

3x vertex cost a little more than 1 intel x25m disk here.
and price gb is more for vertex at 30gb size.
however, adding these in raid0 allows a better solution for most users.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flopper

3x vertex cost a little more than 1 intel x25m disk here.
and price gb is more for vertex at 30gb size.
however, adding these in raid0 allows a better solution for most users.

---

2 in RAID0 or 3 in RAID0...that's the question...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhys

First off, I only registered to say this forum seems to have more than it's fair share of w@nkers, who seem only content with spitting venom @ OCZ.
Sure I can understand there are some people that think they got burned with V1 & V2, but were these drives not returned anyway?
Also just to make clear there were also ALOT of people who did not report any such issues with V1 & V2 and not to mention that OCZ is not the only company using JM controllers!
Anyone fancy starting a hate thread about Seagate with me?

Orangeblast, look at the benchmarks in the following link for 3x30 Vertex figures!
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=52216

I'm no expert but, it looks like I can buy three 30gb vertex's to put in raid 0 and have the following for about the same cost of a single 80gb x25-m (@ scan.co.uk's prices 3x vertex is around £15-£20 Cheaper)
1) Slightly more storage
2) Vastly superior performance in both read and write!

I know which drives I will be getting!!!

And if it was not for companies like OCZ all you Intel fanboys would be paying even more through the nose for your ssd's, because EVERYONE knows Intel tries to screw every penny they can get away with out of their customer to the point of pure GREED!
Looks like my next build will be a Phenom 2 also! Lol

Best Regards

---

bab bad idea
it's more difficult to sell 3x30gb disks than 1x80gb
and you can't use them on a laptop (anywhere without raid mode)

Other than that, we need some subjective reviews about those vertex drives before concluding about their performance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by karateo

bab bad idea
it's more difficult to sell 3x30gb disks than 1x80gb
and you can't use them on a laptop (anywhere without raid mode)

Other than that, we need some subjective reviews about those vertex drives before concluding about their performance.

---

I don't think it will be more difficult for OCZ to sell 3x vertex for desktop users considering these prelimery performance statistics blow the x25-m & E out the water.
If you mean that it will be more difficult for the end user to sell them on:
a) 3x vertex at this point in time has superior performance over a single x25 by a large margin!
b) Considering how fast ssd prices are falling, by the time I want to change my drives, they won't be worth much anyway!!!
c) Those that can't afford 3 can get 2 or even just a single drive

Most Laptops don't need as much performance as a desktop drive so even if a single x25-m has a slight read performance advantage, I think most laptop (and desktop) users would'nt notice any difference in the 'real world' and would opt for the cheaper £ per G/B that has a much greater write performance!

I know I would! particularly for us in the UK.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=445
no need to say anything else :p

let's see the final product how it performs
If you are in the UK your best option is to grab 2x 60gb Samsung mlc ssds from novatech for £100 each and outperform the vertex a loooot ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhys

I don't think it will be more difficult for OCZ to sell 3x vertex for desktop users considering these prelimery performance statistics blow the x25-m & E out the water.
If you mean that it will be more difficult for the end user to sell them on:
a) 3x vertex at this point in time has superior performance over a single x25 by a large margin!
b) Considering how fast ssd prices are falling, by the time I want to change my drives, they won't be worth much anyway!!!
c) Those that can't afford 3 can get 2 or even just a single drive

Most Laptops don't need as much performance as a desktop drive so even if a single x25-m has a slight read performance advantage, I think most laptop (and desktop) users would'nt notice any difference in the 'real world' and would opt for the cheaper £ per G/B that has a much greater write performance!

I know I would! particularly for us in the UK.

---

Just FYI a single X25-E has 60% more "all-in-one" IOPS versus THREE 30GB vertex drives and more than DOUBLE the 4KB random write IOPS and it costs less than three 30GB vertex drives. You clearly don't have the slightest clue of what you are talking about. Raid doesn't even boost performance in the overwhelming majority of day to day scenarios.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by karateo

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=445
no need to say anything else :p

let's see the final product how it performs
If you are in the UK your best option is to grab 2x 60gb Samsung mlc ssds from novatech for £100 each and outperform the vertex a loooot ;)

---

Please see attached benchmark.

Can you post some sammy benchmarks to prove your performance claim?