The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

The 480 will be priced as nvidias top dog and regardless of performance differential with the 5870 they will charge what the market will bear. The 470 however should be priced according to performance relative to ATI and if there's going to be a price war the 470 will be the card doing the fighting.

Nvidia is going to have to price everything below the 480 relative to performance so if ATI decides to get aggressive with pricing Nvidia will pretty much have to follow suit and we should have competitive pricing.

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Originally Posted by kadozer

30% in most games over a 5870 is pretty damn impressive and I'm more leaning towards AMD side. 20-30% meh and <20% = Fail.

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If the price is adequate then agreed. :yepp:

And talking about the pricing... get real, guys. The chip is very expensive to make (much more expensive than Cypress). It took a lot of money and time to develop. Nvidia doesn't really have anything else to make money on in the desktop market atm. They will not be interested to 'underprice' Fermi losing money with each sale. So it will be either moderately expensive (like current ATI offers are) or very expensive, depending on performance.

if they only sell limited numbers... i think they could sell the 480 for 650$ easily...
especially if its on average 30% faster than a 5870... in that case they might even be able to sell it for 700$ in limited numbers...

they have held the performance crown for a long time, and have a lot of fans that are happy with their cards and dont have a problem with spending that much on a new highend card.
especially since many people think this will be a G80 scenario i wouldnt be surprised if many nvidia fans see it as a long term investment...

i have never been interested in nvidias highend cards, they were always too expensive and had too bad of a perf to price ratio for my taste... same for atis highend cards actually...
so i really hope they hurry up with GF104 already... ati could def need some competition in that field :D

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Originally Posted by saaya

...
i have never been interested in nvidias highend cards, they were always too expensive and had too bad of a perf to price ratio for my taste... same for atis highend cards actually...
...
:D

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If you are not interested in high-end GPU, what are you up to by writing all these stuff here?

If the news about GTX 470 for $299 holds true, how a GTX 480 would go for 650$ easily ?

I think expecting 470 to be better performance and same price as 5850 is completely ignoring enormously strong factors regarding Nvidia

1- They have already lost A LOT of money getting this chip at its final silicon
2- Nvidia has traditionally priced their products above competition, milking on its brand strength as much as it can.

What are the chances that it will change it's strategy and ignore the factors above?

Typically, in the tech sector, there are no fairy tales. Either you perform as expected, or you under perform.

299$'s GTX470 is really hard to believe, that's less than 285 GTX actual prices :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Dimitriman

I think expecting 470 to be better performance and same price as 5850 is completely ignoring enormously strong factors regarding Nvidia

1- They have already lost A LOT of money getting this chip at its final silicon
2- Nvidia has traditionally priced their products above competition, milking on its brand strength as much as it can.

What are the chances that it will change it's strategy and ignore the factors above?

Typically, in the tech sector, there are no fairy tales. Either you perform as expected, or you under perform.

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You are forgetting that time has change, now for the first time in resent history, ATi has a technical capability to match the performance, and this is historical. You are also forgetting that the price is depended on the competition, not how much money nVidia or ATi needs .

But I believe those really good prices won't become a reality unless ATi has or existing GPU or a new/refresh to compete with Fermi at launch.

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Originally Posted by Sam_oslo

You are forgetting that time has change, now for the first time in resent history, ATi has a technical capability to match the performance, and this is historical. You are also forgetting that the price is depended on the competition, not how much money nVidia or ATi needs .

But I believe those really good prices won't become a reality unless ATi has or existing GPU or a new/refresh to compete with Fermi at launch.

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True,

Let's hope for your version, it would make our lives (consumers) much better. ;)

And now??? Fake I guess...

http://electronika.vacau.com/index.p...-fermi?start=1

http://electronika.vacau.com/images/...ERMI_QUIZA.png

Time will tell

Would be more believable if it were 480 SLI. Maybe they are concealing that "small detail"?
Even the most optimistic Nvidia fanboys do not claim such massive performance numbers...

I cannot help but to be skeptic.
I'd wait for a reliable publication from a reliable site before believing 30% faster than 5970.

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Originally Posted by ethomaz

And now??? Fake I guess...

http://electronika.vacau.com/index.p...-fermi?start=1

http://electronika.vacau.com/images/...ERMI_QUIZA.png

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OMG, I can't believe it, the GTX 480 is beating the 5970, big time. This better be fake :D

EDIT:
But something like this will make GTX 480 to become really expensive. On the other hand it will force the ATi to release a new/refresh to compete with it too. Then we are looking at a relay great competition/price war, and good GPU with good price will be flying around everywhere. Unless ATi choses to "jump over" this for a 86-series that comes later, or a 28nm that comes next year.

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Originally Posted by ethomaz

And now??? Fake I guess...

http://electronika.vacau.com/index.p...-fermi?start=1

http://electronika.vacau.com/images/...ERMI_QUIZA.png

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lol.. a man can dream can't he?

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Originally Posted by ethomaz

And now??? Fake I guess...

http://electronika.vacau.com/index.p...-fermi?start=1

http://electronika.vacau.com/images/...ERMI_QUIZA.png

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It's fake, follow the link and a comment says the 480 is exactly 50% faster than the 295 in every test. Definitely not legit.

At most i think its pretty hard to defeat 5970, granted some games under TWIMTBP may agree with GTX 480 but general i dont think so.

that chart is based on:

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Well, after this brief review to improve NVIDIA and related improvements DirectX 11, you teach that supposedly characterize the graphs in the next benchmarking graphics from NVIDIA. L The data used are based on a review conducted by the ATI techreport.com 5970, and has been a 50% improvement in FPS on the GTX 295, NVIDIA reported as improvements in the environment of 40-60% compared this graph.

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so GTX 480 numbers are based on supposedly NVIDIA claiming that it will be 40-60% faster than a GTX 295;
they never say these benchmarks were run with real hardware

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It's fake, follow the link and a comment says the 480 is exactly 50% faster than the 295 in every test. Definitely not legit.

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maybe you should read more attentively ;)

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Originally Posted by damha

Not to mention AMD is more than capable of slashing prices after all of this dominance.

Imagine AMD drops prices by $100 the day that 470 launches.

That wouldn't just be rubbing salt in the wounds. That would be:
- Rubbing salt in the wounds
- Add some vinegar
- A bit of alcohol
- A flamethrower to blend everything together
- A pinch of salt on top

Can AMD do it?

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I don't think so. Don't want to open up a FTC/Senate Commerce Committee hearing. The market is largely a duopoly in the non-integrated field of graphics which now has its own SIC code. HHI is in the 4,000's and anything over 1800 is considered uncompetitive.

Worst thing that can happen is AMD keeps the performance crown for too long and Nvidia starts bleeding cash for a large amount of time. The only way the FTC lets the companies continue to compete is if we have competition.

SA forum:[Intelligence from China] Fermi-based Tesla cards are very rare, even among AICs.

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Originally Posted by mapel110

There was never the case, that the high end part was a cut down version.

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That means nothing. There was also never the case that Nvidia tried to build a 3 billion transistor chip using a brand new architecture on a new, buggy 40nm process. I'm leaning toward 512 personally but my original and very simple question was whether it has been confirmed to be such or whether they have been forced to go with a cut down chip due to the ongoing yield problems.

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Originally Posted by ElSel10

Yes we do. It was disclosed in the whitepaper that GF100 denotes GeForce and Tesla is something else.

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Yes for marketing. They're both based on the same chip.

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It's been confirmed by Nvidia from several sources that the high end GeForce part has the full 512 SPs. Period.

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You shouldn't have a problem providing links to those sources then. Since that was my original question and all.

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Originally Posted by trinibwoy

You shouldn't have a problem providing links to those sources then. Since that was my original question and all.

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I'm not going to post them because they have already been posted. You are simply being obstinate and trying to make an arbitrary argument that GF100 is just the GPU and the 512 SP variant will never be used which is a preposterous claim.

That's akin to trying to say Fermi will be made out of jello and tofu and you can't be 100% sure that it won't because it was never disclosed that it wouldn't be (and it so happens, it has been disclosed the high end GeForce part will have 512 SPs).

^ I asked a simple question. You're the one who jumped all over me for it. If you can't answer the question with links to Nvidia's confirmation of the GTX 480 configuration then what are you arguing about?

Who said the 512 variant will never be used? Now you're putting words in my mouth in some weak attempt to deflect from the real issue which is that we do not have confirmation on what they will bring to market on March 26th.

that last sentence was nice. Grammatically.

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Originally Posted by trinibwoy

^ I asked a simple question. You're the one who jumped all over me for it. If you can't answer the question with links to Nvidia's confirmation of the GTX 480 configuration then what are you arguing about?

Who said the 512 variant will never be used? Now you're putting words in my mouth in some weak attempt to deflect from the real issue which is that we do not have confirmation on what they will bring to market on March 26th.

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I guess you're right. There has not been official confirmation about the GTX480, but for most people, they just get the implication that GTX480 denotes the high end single GPU part, just as GTX280 did last generation.

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Originally Posted by ElSel10

I'm not going to post them because they have already been posted. You are simply being obstinate and trying to make an arbitrary argument that GF100 is just the GPU and the 512 SP variant will never be used which is a preposterous claim.

That's akin to trying to say Fermi will be made out of jello and tofu and you can't be 100% sure that it won't because it was never disclosed that it wouldn't be (and it so happens, it has been disclosed the high end GeForce part will have 512 SPs).

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You are misrepresenting trinibwoy's post with your analogy. He's no saying GTX480 will be made out of jello - he's saying it will be made out of chips. He's also saying that those chips (the ones going into the 480) haven't been officially confirmed to be 512sp - which is true.


They obviously designed the arch so that the top card would get a full 512sp. But if they are having yield issues then they could use cut down chips to meet a certain launch date and/or shipment volumes. It would also give them the chance to launch a full 512sp Fermi ULTRA or something later.

As for the speed, barring any production/design/driver issues, I'm still sticking with my 30% faster then 5870 prediction made back in the original thread. IMO, 30% would be ok. Anything less would be a disappointment, significantly more would be a pleasant surprise.

480 GTX Pre-Order

$679.99 aye?

Add in UK taxes and "screw you for being British" tax.. Looks like it's going to be around £470.

Well, £500 was my willing max as thats the cheapest 5970, so i guess it's OK.

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Originally Posted by Yoxxy

I don't think so. Don't want to open up a FTC/Senate Commerce Committee hearing. The market is largely a duopoly in the non-integrated field of graphics which now has its own SIC code. HHI is in the 4,000's and anything over 1800 is considered uncompetitive.

Worst thing that can happen is AMD keeps the performance crown for too long and Nvidia starts bleeding cash for a large amount of time. The only way the FTC lets the companies continue to compete is if we have competition.

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Interesting. I guess that means "reasonable" price cuts or a refresh is the best they can do. I learned two new acronyms today :)