lol you kept saying that in other threads and you still bought it? come on man, at least stick with what you are saying rather than going around talking trash, buying it, then talking more :down:Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
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lol you kept saying that in other threads and you still bought it? come on man, at least stick with what you are saying rather than going around talking trash, buying it, then talking more :down:Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
You know what, i thought id give it a shot anyway............and im not talking trash, i have both cards in hand and have tested them with more than 10 games and ATi is CRAP!!! this is IMO you dont have to agree, and dont worry, i know what i say, and i thought maybe i could prove myself wrong and give some hope to ATi just because it was cheap and available localy, but once again, ATi has disapointed and delievered a bad performer....my 8800GT whipes the floor with this crap excuse for a card. ATi :down: AMD :down:Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
In which way is your card crap compared to the 8800GT?
Drivers? Graphic quality? Performance? Overclocking?
for example, COD2, a game i play alot, 1920x1200 resolution 4xaa 16xaf, i get consant 60-120fps, but with the ATi i get 30-65 even with the card overclocked to 850/1300, now second game, hellgate london dx10 mode, lets see can we say no more than 25 frames? when the nvidia is always above 40.......this is all with resolutions 1920x1200, 3rd game, NFS pro street, be it a cappy game or not, this video card cannot keep this game at above 50fps, when the nvidia is always over 60+......4th game Quake wars, first ATi has mouse lag, second frames are never above 65, when nvidia is 65-120 always.......now 5th game, TF2.......this is the only game where the ATi is only 5% within nvidias range, still doesnt outperform it..........how is this card selling for the same price as the 8800GT, this card IMO is not worth a penny over $199......the 8800GT can be sold for $299 because its performance can compensate its price..........other games i tried, COD4, again nvidia is always ahead by a large margin, Crysis, nvidia for 34fps average with everything on very high except for shaders and shadows on medium, ati ran a mere 24, 10 fps less in crysis is a big deal, and this is with the card heavily overclocked to 1375 mem and 864 core.........pretty much dissapointed with ati, i hadnt owned an ATi card since my good old x800xt and i dont plan on owning another ATi intill they can prove themselfs, with poor showing on their cpu and gpu, i dont trust this company anymore, especially when paying the same amount as you would be paying for an intel and nvidia setup, wich will perform much better............and DX10.1 dont make me laugh, even game developers have said they wont use it.........if you have played with both cards the amount that i have, you will agree with me, if you own an ATi card and are a fanboy to the max you probably think you have the best card out, but please try to understand i am frustrated because we as consumers need competition so prices stay low and better products come out.....if ATi dies wich i see them after intel comes into the gpu scene, competition will be slim to none for intel and nvidia.....sorry for the poor grammer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupiler
Nah, won't happen - TDPs are continuously increasing. It's wasn't long ago when highend video cards consumed ~50-70W.Quote:
Originally Posted by slugzkea
has anybody gotten the gecube hd3870 OC bios??
and GAR never tried single card yet..
but my crossfire setup for hd3870 kills the 8800gt sli rig that i got for my gf..
By the way, any twilight of a workable bios editor for HD 3870? I do really hope I can edit the bios of my Gigabyte HD 3870, like frequency, voltage, fan profile, etc., especially the fan profile, to increase the fan speed in the bios rather than in RivaTuner.
I got a visionTek 3870 coming from dell,that gecube oc bios would make a nice gaming setup
I'll try to find it too
What he said!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage
LOL
Voltmods dont develop themselves...we need pics of the back of the card, close-up and in detail!
Even if I dont figure out the mods from pics and info...someone else might.
I understand your frustration. I also have ordered a HD3870 and a 8800 GT so i also gonna compare the two cards. But i have payed 189 euro for the HD3870 and i needed to pay 250 euro for the 8800 GT. So i guess that the HD3870 has a better price performance. I dont know why that shop where you bought the card sells them for the same price. the HD3870 has at least a 50$ lower retail price.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
And AMD pwns the :banana::banana::banana::banana: out of nVidia with the HD3850. nVidia asks the same $$ for its 8600 GT that is 3x slower. So to say that AMD is only crap thats not true the HD2xxx and HD3xxx are still a lot better then that crappy GeForce FX. But i must agree GFX and CPU's AMD should get better fast.
^^ I have to say that the 3850 is the best launch ATI has ever made
GAR that's an interesting comparison
is that both cards OCd or stock or nvidia stock and other one OCd
they are both selling for around ~210 Euro hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Astennu
Strange. Cheapest HD3870 over here is like 179 euro and cheapest GT 229 euro.
I payed 219€ for my MSI OC 3870, while my EVGA SC 8800GT costed me 269€.
Most prices for the 8800GT are simply insane, varying upto 300€ (at ebay it's even worse).
Until the prices for the 8800GT stabilize (220€ like they should be), the 3850/3870 gives you the best price/performance.
Here is High resolution image of the back of the pcb or what i assume is called the back :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by K404
Sapphire
HD3870 PCB 1200DPI (SendSpace)
HD3870 PCB 1200DPI (RapindShare)
I don't know if the heatsink is in the way or not when looking for voltmod but i can take more pictures tomorrow with no heatsink and of the other side as well as i'm going to be installing an acceleron s1 Hope this helps
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstkl1
In what games are they faster in crysis too?
brilliant! Thankyou!
The core uses the uP6201AQ controller- same as whats used on the 2600
For the RAM: the controller is a uP6101BSA. The voltmod, I suspect will be a variable resistor between pins 3 and 6 of this IC, but i dont know what value yet.
Im hunting for more info at the mo.
I cannot confirm or guarantee that anything i say in these posts will work. I suggest no-one tries what I suggest until someone else can confirm it. If I had a card of my own, id try the mods myself first.
close-up pics (taken by Rumon..thanks!):
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/4...ntroliczl5.jpg
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/9...ntrolictk0.jpg
Also posted in VMod section
both cards overclockedQuote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
3870 = 850/1250
8800gt = 740/1836/2000
Just for reference, as long as voltage modification points are between ref and ground you can start at a 100k resistor and measure voltage change, then put in a 50k and repeat.. then 25k, 10k, 5k...
When you get one that increases above stock (say from 1.25 to 1.3) then you need to back up one step and thats the best starting point usually.
I use old 3-pin fan connectors to allow fast changing of resistors without having to resolder each one.
My findings too! The HD3870 scales very well compared to a the 8800's. I think most peoples fustration is they are have an Intel chipset and are stuck with a single card with NV.Quote:
Originally Posted by cstkl1
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
Wow, that's some fast shipping. Didn't you order that from BB yesterday. I might have to order my second 3870 from them. Didn't think they could get them out that fast. Would have thought about the GT when the price came down, but I just can't see myself going with a Nvidia chipset and SLI.
actually i got it from my local frysQuote:
Originally Posted by PhilDoc
Bummer for me, no frys here. The nice thing about Frys and BB as they usually don't price gouge.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
when overclocking this, the memory seems to die at 1206, this is according to ati tool.
Could be that's all your memory has, but try Riva Tuner. I tried the latest ATI tool beta and din't have much luck with it.
Yup, i returned the card already, as i was very disapointed with the performance compared to the 8800GT, in one word, the 3870 got hammered in all of my tests, by 20-30%....except for the source engine games.....it was pretty much head to headQuote:
Originally Posted by PhilDoc
interesting i put my m8s 8800GT side by side with my 3870. Yes the 8800 was faster thought the ATi looked MUCH better.
I agree, the ATi looks a bit better but nothing to go crazy about, not noticible in most cases, alsoa good picture doesnt matter when the frames cannot keep up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage
That's what I've been hearing, and it's been making it soooo hard for me to pick, I want the best image quality I can get, but I recently bought a 24" monitor and I have an am2 590 sli setup (bought it before conroe, didn't know about conroe since I didn't pay attention to tech news at the time) so I need a fast card if I ever want to play crysis with any aa.
The g92 gts interests me, but the 3870's picture is supposed to be superior, I'm not sure if that's due to nvidia cheating on their drivers or ati just having the superior gfx engine, but either way, the decision is hard to make, especially with two of the cards being sold out and one not released yet
how about msi 3870oc edition http://www.mvktech.net/components/co...es/MSI3870.romQuote:
Originally Posted by cstkl1
if you look at expreview's comparison, crossfire does seem to scale far better than sli, but the problem is the 8800gt is so much more powerful than the 3870 such that if you can't afford a second card it's not worth it
can you consider 23mhz an overclock? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by hstuehmeyer2000
that bios uses the old bios, and it doesnt have higher voltage.
Guess, I should consider myself lucky to get the 114 I got out of mine. With the price the new cards are selling at, I think we'll be see a lot more going with a two card system. Its certainly motivated me toward that direction and just what I've seen on this forum, there's quite a few headed that direction. Nice to see some decent performance at a decent price.
GAR, I’m sorry to hear that you are so disappointed with the 3870's performance compared to the 8800GT. However, did you happen to see this review of a 3870 crossfire compared to a 8800GT SLI?
http://en.expreview.com/?p=53
The crossfire scaled much better than the SLI. I wouldn’t have acted so hastily, as ATI Drivers only keep getting more performance as they mature.
yeah its a bit tricky to choose. though nvidia are well known for dropping quality on well known games and benchmarks to get better benchmark results..
I am happy with my 3870.. can play Crysis @ 1680x1050 Very High everything :)
I did see the review, but i cannot make a $500 investment over my 8800GT over one review you know, i would need more proof and more reviews of the same sort......my 8800GT is a good overclocker so i think crossfire wouldnt have that much of a improvement in my case, thats probably comparing a stock 8800GT in SLiQuote:
Originally Posted by Wirelessfender
GAR = Nvidia employee? :D
not even bro, i have had the pleasure to play around with both cards, and im stating my results....thats all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage
he must be a Gigabyte employee as well then if you read any of the GB posts of his :p: :p: :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage
Hi,
Ati Tool's new version is out there. AtiTool 0,27 Beta 3.
- Full Vista and XP64 support
- Support for all ATI RV6xx ASICs
- No changes to R600 support in this build
- Better support for multiple adapters
- Latest NVIDIA non-WHQL drivers with some G8x cards not supported
- Better handling of clock step sizes
- Fixed vertex/pixel/unified shader reporting
- Added detection for about 20 older and newer ATI ASICs
With 55nm GPU, decent cooling (may be even with the stock fan) and increased voltages HD3870 may fly past standart 8800gt.
(Don't forget to use the new bios solving 862 MHZ barrier problem.)
Give it a try.
Especially you Miwo, with having a good cooling solution.
Here is the link:
http://en.expreview.com/?p=62
Just downloaded it and uninstalled the previous version (ATITool 0.27 b2) and installed the beta 3 version...Quote:
Originally Posted by adacay
It certainly does detect the clock and mem correctly but when I used it to overclock it failed to pass the furry cube test but with RivaTuner it works fine...
So not much of an improvement for the RV 670 cards...
But thanks for the good info...
Are you able to modify the voltage with this new AtiTool? If you can, then you may increase the voltage by AtiTool first, and then increase the GPU clock by Riva Tuner.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger8312
I hope it works.
I've checked the voltage box if it shows up a control menu for the voltage but didn't...Quote:
Originally Posted by adacay
Don't have the experience using ATITools for voltage modification but for now it doesn't seem to work out for me...
Has anyone tried it out yet?
I'm really curious if the voltmodded BIOS really works because there are few people saying the BIOS is not working...
Anyways I hope people don't post garbage like 8800GT is better and ATI is trash and stuff like that...
Doesn't really help and considering the nature of the forum it is inappropriate..
For those who wants to stick with 8800GT I strongly suggest that you to go to another forum for your fuzz and don't clutter this forum with garbage info... :mad:
ty for the heads up, but unfortunately voltages aren't working on the new ATITool version. It is a beta after all, and this version pretty much adds clocking support on RV6xx cards. Perhaps in the next few revisions, W1z will have figured out how to adjust the voltages in software (if possible), you never know
until then, our best chances of getting a vmod are in this thread
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=166623 , since modifying the voltage table in the bios does nothing.
:up:
Here's a 3dmark06 basic test result. I've noticed very little artifacting with this memory clock and I truely believe it's because of that stupid goop between the copper heatsinks and the RAM. I'm going to purchase some copper ram sinks and aim for a high RAM clock.
I truely believe I Can hit the 12,000's with this card
I got the 3870 and i think it is awsome. an 8800GT is an even more awsome of a card, it just is not always easy to find one at the price you want to pay.
As far as the comparison that GAR drew with his card: Firstly, you have to consider that the 3870 was significantly cheaper than the 8800GT for the majority of people. Secondly, the 8800GT appeared to be overclocked and overvolted where the 3870 was not voltmodded or even sporting an average overclock. I'll definitely give you the fact that the 8800GT is a better card, but the comparison seems a little unfair granted the 8800GT you have is a above average clocker and there aint even a voltmod for 3870 out yet.
Now, Aside from this, two other things.
1. be careful with memory artifacts as memory is way more fragile than the core
2. the core doesn't like being over 60C when overclocked
On mine it will do 860/1250 easy as long as the core stays below 60c. The memory on mine was fine at 1300 until the deep freeze test in 3dmark06 (in other words it won't do 1300). I'm not even messing around with it further until I get better cooling and some volt mods exist.
Okay, now food for thought
-On paper the 3870 looks like it would outdo the 8800GT, heck even the 2900XT has better overall processing capability and memory bandwidth. Why precisely does the 8800GT outperform? Is it because the 8800GT is better at texturing? We all know it has proven itself a great card, I've just not heard any precise answer as to why.
Many say it's because nvidia is in bed with the coders and yes nvidia seems to be better in texturing. I would also like too see ati's shader clocks to go upQuote:
Originally Posted by brakezone
I made measurement with a numerical voltmetre (I afflict use a Français/Anglais translator)
Vgdr4
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2...vddrby4.th.jpg
Vvpu
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/3...corewn0.th.jpg
HD3870 - 16 texture Units @ 775MhzQuote:
Originally Posted by brakezone
8800x - 24 texture Units @1.2Ghz
What's up lately with those peeps making their first post after 4 years :D
Keep it coming guys, seems like the mods are about to surface in no time :up:
Where did you get the 1.2 Ghz for the texture units ? as far as i know the texture units have the clockspeeds of the ROB's. So if you have a 8800 GT they would run @ 600 MHz. Shader speeds are seperated and operate @ 1500 MHz for the GT.Quote:
Originally Posted by RickCain
comeon guys keep on topic.. go post in 3870 vs 8800 GT :)
How to enable the GPU Utilization @ Rivatuner ?
does this mean anything for us modding noobs?Quote:
Originally Posted by kyky
looks like we know where to take measurements to see if volts are going up by BIOS or other methods :)
I agree with you! Please keep this thread on topic and working towards the goal of getting these cards OCed higher!
But seriously dude, calm down. :shrug:
Can we get a compiled thread with ONLY the info on developments for getting these cards OCed higher? like a guide or something? 15 pages is kinda long...
i agree
like the 2900pro thread
Have other people also tested the new Beta 3 of ATi tool ? I have seen people that say they can clock there HD3870 with it and chance fan speed. But non of them mentioned the Voltage control. And that is the most interesting part :)
I also tried some BIOS edit tools but non of them could edit the HD3870 bios. But it was worth the try,
the new ati tool buggy
so has anybody has the gecube HD3870 OC bios...really want them..
There's a new ATI Tool beta 4. It works better for overclocking then the beta 3, but doesn't have a voltage option. Hopefully, there'll be a hardware mod soon.
Let's stay on topic, please.
Some posts have been edited/removed, so let's keep it calm and civilized.
This is about the RV670 and NOT about the 8800GT.
There are other topics concerning the 8800GT. You can post your opinions, questions etc... there.
Hope to get mine soon.
i just sold my 8800gt and bought 2x 3870.. am i the only one to do so?
act i planned to grab the new g92 8800gts, since it is secretly available already in my place.. but then i just need to add around RM300 (roughly around $80) to get 2x 3870.. so i bought this 3870 coz i know these 2cards will perform better than 1 gts plus it offers me better picture in HD playback :D
how exactly do I flash my card to the fixed mem divider BIOS? I downloaded the ATi flash utility and BIOS from techpowerup.
My card dies EXACTLY @ 863 >.>
Use this guide it's exactly the same.......Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmartini
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=461151
http://www.taig.ee/web/14361.JPG
one estonian Hd3870 @ 918/1395 with stock cooling and not modded bios + warm air.
there is potential.. all we need is vmods and 1000-1100 mhz gpu is possible with air..
same guy, CF: http://www.taig.ee/web/19587.JPG
Vgpu mod is up!Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterwind
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...13#post2593013
:up:
I don't have the time right now to read all 15 pages of the thread right now.
For the Vmod, is it posible to do it via a BIOS flash?
I read in earlier posts about that being done but I think I read that it also didn't work...
Or do you have to solder on the board it self? Or is it posible to do it via a pencil type mod?
Thanks
Also, I'm supposed to be getting a HIS 3870, what're the chances of it having a "fixed" BIOS that won't top out at 860~?
Thanks again.
Sapphire had released a HD3870 ES Bios:
1. fixed the 862MHz limit.
2. fixed bugs of the fan speed from always 25%-25% to 35%-50%.
No pen mods and no bios mods right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by RealyPssd
It should eventually be controllable by software.
Right now you have to hard mod, i.e. solder. (in the 8800gt vmod a member said that conductive ink/super glue works though some members disagreed)
which bios are you guys using? the one in the first post or the one from techpowerup? also do any of these new bios fix the fan?
Where to find that particular bios?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim_HKG
http://rapidshare.com/files/73535410...nlock.rar.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Clint
i got from mvktech and uploaded it to rapidshare
I can't find it at mvktech, give linky?Quote:
Originally Posted by hstuehmeyer2000
here http://www.mvktech.net/component/opt...7157/catid,12/Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint
and that rapidshare link was a download link
Thanks for the link!:up:
..I do prefer dl directly from source, nothing personal:D
Tried it and the fan is controlled by bios, but it doesn't get recognized in windows by drivers...can't do crap with it..:(
Perhaps someone had already posted it, anyhow, it's here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint
http://www.uploading.com/files/IFYV1NN0/112007.rar.html
3870 all you need to know:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirelessfender
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/....php?p=2587419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint
Guys what is the difference between this new sapphire bios, and the one released by ATI?
it allows you to overclock past 860Mhz on the core.
i flashed mine with the techpowerup bios. before the bios flash, i had my card up to 860/1300 but only tested it with CS:S and HL2:Lost Coast stress tests. no issues running both of those.
after i flashed my card and using the same overclock, i installed CoH and ran the ingame tester, it crashed and vpu kicked it. i've been playing with it since yesterday and originally thought it was the memory causing it to crash so i downclocked it to 1200, still no go. so it comes down to the core. i just ran the CoH tester again and it finished it with no problems @ 840/1200.
i'm downloading 3dmark06 right now and will test some more when its done. my question is, can the new bios change my card's overclockability? i'm assuming it can due to memory timings and such. if thats the case i might just flash back to the factory bios.
No, really? I mean, if you've read from page 1 on this thread, you would know that i obviously, already, seriously fux0ring know that.Quote:
Originally Posted by HousERaT
Now, let me rephraise:
WHAT is the DIFFERENCE between the NEW bios released by ATI (which allows the core to go past 862mhz and fixes the fan% settings), and the BIOS released by SAPPHIRE?
Sapphire new bios?
ATI new bios?
IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE! thank you.
I ask, because all releases by different companies use different RAM chips.
So I'm trying to figure out if the new sapphire bios has been modified for the Samsung chips.
THANK YOU:clap:
Well when you find a 3870 using something other than Sammy chips please let us know. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by slugzkea
update from my previous post.
i just ran HL2: Lost Coast stress test @ 860/1306 in ATI OverDrive and it crash about halfway through it. with the original bios it ran perfect with that overclock now it can't after flashing to the new bios. i haven't reinstalled drivers after the bios flash so that might be factor too. will do more testing tonight.
I'm sorry but can anyone tell me if the HD3870 is compatible with the VF-900??
It would have been interesting to compare some 05/06 results before and after at same oc.Quote:
Originally Posted by aiya
Any performance difference in LC?.... if you get to finish hehe :p:
should be fine but there are better heatsinks out there for only a couple $ more.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMH
I already own a VF-900,just another question:p: : is also the 8800GT compatible with the VF-900??My chioce is leaning towards ATI price and being able to use the VF-900 on itQuote:
Originally Posted by STEvil
before the flash in LC i got, 93fps stock, 103fps oc'ed both @ 1920x1200 w/ 4xAA/16xAF high everything else, reflect world. i'll run one flashed stock in LC to see. i also just ran 3dmark06 default and got 10156 @ stock clocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankybugga
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3...shedlp1.th.jpg
the 8800GT is compatiable with the VF900.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMH
HD3870 works fine with VF-900.
i have VF-700CU @ 5v on my HD3850 and temp goes to 65c with 770/2100 clocks:p:
Thats cooler than my X1800 MOBILITY on vf900-cu!!! :rofl: :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterwind
Just wondering if 1.325v seems extremely high for stock volts on 55nm process to anyone else? What was hd2900 vgpu stock?
These just seem extremely cool running considering the voltage. Also will 1.5v be safe 24/7? That sounds like it could be a bit much for 55nm.
Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Yeah i thought the same. Stock R600 volts was 1.2 i believe. I wonder why they need this much voltage. You expect the RV670 would run on 1.2 aswell. To bad voltage control is not working else i could test the max on 1.2v for the HD3870 cards. But i think the HD3850 run a v-core close to 1.2v.Quote:
Originally Posted by kemist
Nevermind lol the sapphire bios seems okay now.
Did you try atiflash -p -f -newbios 0Quote:
Originally Posted by slugzkea
update:
after some testing i did the other night. the techpowerup bios compared to the stock bios. the techpowerup bios is faster. i get the same scores in HL2:Lost Coast.
1920x1200 4xAA/16xAA high everything, water - reflect world
stock bios @ 860/1300 in ATI overdrive - 103fps
techpowerup bios @ 840/1224 in ATI overdrive - 104fps
i ran 3 runs with the techpowerup bios to check and all of them were 104.xxfps. i guess some divider (duhh) makes it faster or memory timings?
also techpowerup bios fixes the fan throttling, goes up to 30-35% and still quiet.
no i usedQuote:
Originally Posted by SnipingWaste
atlifhasl -p 0 -f biosname.bin
i figured out what that pci device was in device manager, it says "microsoft UAA bus driver for high definition audio"
I'm guessing that's the ATI HDMI Hd audio crap that you won't need unless you are using an HDMI TV.
Its for the onbord audio on the mother board. The driver is bugged and you can download the updated drivers from Microsoft to fix it.Quote:
Originally Posted by slugzkea
http://downloadcenter.intel.com/deta...ProductID=1861
PS the Command is Atiflash -p 0 -f -newbios biosname.bin